Mini Normal 2033: Dolphins (Game Over)

[wilky]

Hi guys.

Will catch up as much as possible tonight through isos. If I don't get done tonight I'll finish tomorrow after work.

For now UNVOTE:

[wilky]

Phone posting right now so not the fastest or most detailed catch up but anyway so far.

I get a town lean on Alchemist from his ISO. It feels natural and nothing pings me throughout the read of it either.

Doughboys iso is hard to understand as there are alot of posts that don't reference the player they are aimed at.
Looks like doughboy has been involved in a 1v1 with Rage (?) I'll check him out next.

Can I get a reads list from you please doughboy?

Nah fuck that.

VOTE: dva

Strategic replacement

Am I missing something here? At the last vote count dva (or me) wasn't the leading wagon and I looked at dvas iso too and nothing makes me assume that my slot was being heavily pushed by anyone can you point me to the posts that make you think this?

[wilky]

Hey wilky!

Hi Wilky. I hope you never change that avi.

Hi guys, don't worry the avatar isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'm doing my catchup but a summary of where you guys are at currently wouldn't go a miss to help me out a little.

[wilky]

By the way, can somebody explain, why there is such a large focus on what has been done in a previous game(s)? Reads from previous games are mostly subjective, additionally, you are relying on person x playing the same way as they did in previous games. Can somebody explain why this is efficient? Or is it just to get the ball rolling? I see no point in it.

As far as im concerned, previous games shouldn't be brought up, But it was brought up to try and get a lynch/wagon on me goin in this game so I had to address it.

No, no, No, No.

Past games are definitely not irrelevant. Meta is a massive part of mafia and should 100% be discussed. That said it should be discussed and people should be provided with examples too.

This is also so contradictory to the rest of your iso.

Gambit 262

Alchemist – nice posts about reads of other player’s actions. Takes me from slight scum lean to neutral/slight town.

Why was an alch a scum lean before this?

Right so where I'm at right now:

Town - Alchemist
Null- Doughboy
Scum lean - EzekelRage

[wilky]

Someone to engage me? What are your reads?

Gamma, Saudade, Doughboy, LTVN, and Ezekel are all Town to me.

Tommy, Dva, Flubber, and you are all null to me.

Guerilla is scum to me.

Talk to me about Ezekel? By looking at the iso's Ezekel seemed to be the one who was trying to keep the 1v1 going. The iso pretty much filled with the 1v1 until the last couple of posts and it also reminds me of a scum game I had before where I dragged Gustavo into a 1v1 and kept it going to bog down the thread, split the town and make people choose sides.

[wilky]

With running the risk of OMGUSing I just want to put out that alot of gammas iso is really fence sitty. Can I get a reads list gamma so I know where you stand on other players.

[wilky]

Right I've got something to do over the next half hour or so I'll try come back for an hour or so after that then I'll need to head to bed.

[wilky]

Votecount 1.8

GuerillaWoo (5) - LTVNGambit, Alchemist21, Doughboy, EzekelRAGE, Gamma Emerald
DVa (3) - ProHawk, GuerillaWoo, Tommy
Gamma Emerald (1) - DVa

Not Voting (2) - Flubbernugget, Saudade

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2018-09-28 12:35:27).

Am I missing something here? At the last vote count dva (or me) wasn't the leading wagon and I looked at dvas iso too and nothing makes me assume that my slot was being heavily pushed by anyone can you point me to the posts that make you think this?

Dva was the closest to l-1, somebody even said he was at l-1. After his last post of the game it was revealed he was tied with 4 but he was still the one under more pressure. There were 2 competing wagons. He also replaced out via pm and not by a post in the game thread.

That’s suspicious to me

Quick post before I head off then, this was the vote count at the time the mod announced he was being replaced. 5 in the leading wagon 3 on mines?? Why exactly is replacing out via pm sus and is it more sus than you conveniently ignoring my ask for a reads list?

[wilky]

Catch up continued I forgot to mention Flubbers iso because it was so bare. I'd like to see more from that slot asap.

Went through guerrillas iso I don't like how he u turns on saudade so quickly and without any real explanation why. I also don't like the pre flip associations and that his vote on my slot is purely down to gut especially when he has another scum read. Guerrilla why isn't your vote on LTVN and can you explain your read and progression on saudade?

Fairly happy with that wagon but I think I'd rather see Ezekel run up so far.

[wilky]

Like I said, you have nothing else to say.

Also I’m not the one keeping the 1v1 going. Db is the one continuing it.

I may have picked it up wrong because I read both sides individually within the iso's but it seems from that that you're the one that is keeping it going.

Also your replies are definitely the more aggressive out the two, as I said you're reminding me of my own scum game so my suspicions are definitely lying at you atm.

[wilky]

@doughboy instead of accusing EVERY player of playing badly can you give me that read list please....

[wilky]

Is it just me or are there too many inactives coming in hopping a wagon then heading out.

Saudade just so you know, you 100% deserve to be at L-1. But UNVOTE: cuz that was outta left field and it's early

This makes it seem as if you want to start a wagon, and jump on at the end due to the unvoting.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: GuerillaWoo
Not caring whether somebody is town doesn't make sense to me, sure we have a town majority, but if we lose 2 town, day 1 and night 1, then it becomes more difficult.[/quote]

Can you elaborate on what you meant about Guerilla Here? I don't understand.

@Guerilla no.3
So you started the wagon which is true. You unvoted at L-1. This isn't a newbie game. You'd have to be stupid to randomly Hammer so early without declaring intent and without an argument. If you look recently. You said you'd get along with Saudade. As he has the same reads of me and Tommy as you so. Early bussing.

Quickhammers don't only happen in newbie games and in fact in my experience I've definitely seen more happen outwith newbie games.

Outwith these quotes i like this iso another town lean for me.

[wilky]

Oops I messed up the quote tags

[wilky]

Why don't you trust Gamma?

[wilky]

ProHawk has 1 post that's useful. Again I want more from this slot asap. The last thing we need is passengers in d2+ and both Flubber and prohawk havent posted anywhere near enough yet

[wilky]

Why don't you trust Gamma?

Idk I just don’t. He’d be in my scum pile if I didn’t already have 3

So it's just a gut thing then? Let's say hypothetically Gamma was run up to L-1 would you hammer the slot?

[wilky]

Saudade is very much active lurking/ trolling but I believe that's normal from him. I won't have time to do it before the end of d1 but by d2 I'll try read into his meta to see if there is something he does as a certain alignment to try get a read there

[wilky]

Why don't you trust Gamma?

Idk I just don’t. He’d be in my scum pile if I didn’t already have 3

So it's just a gut thing then? Let's say hypothetically Gamma was run up to L-1 would you hammer the slot?

Yes and yes

Ok, what about leaving a game via pm is more sus than leaving it via a game post in your opinion? If you're biggest town read left a game via pm would it cause an overhaul in your reads or even just a u turn in that slot? Also, if dva left via an in game post would it have made you look at my slot differently?

[wilky]

Thanks. Helps go read the rules. 

Prob Town.

I disagree. It's too easy to fake.

I honestly think it's likely that Scioness saw a red role PM and replaced out in the pre-game, and I feel like the others who also voted that slot feel the same way as I do.

I do. Here's an example of a game where she gives up as scum:

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=75972&start=1825

What about you, ProHawk? Serious vote?

With the risk of shading my own slot this post here did alot to cement an early town read on Tommy for me.

I like Tommys iso too and he's probably my biggest town read now.

Sorry for spamming the thread guys but I believe that's me read everyone's iso. Maybe not the most detailed catch up but I'm now caught up with the game.

[wilky]

Is it just me or are there too many inactives coming in hopping a wagon then heading out.

Saudade just so you know, you 100% deserve to be at L-1. But UNVOTE: cuz that was outta left field and it's early

This makes it seem as if you want to start a wagon, and jump on at the end due to the unvoting.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: GuerillaWoo
Not caring whether somebody is town doesn't make sense to me, sure we have a town majority, but if we lose 2 town, day 1 and night 1, then it becomes more difficult.

Can you elaborate on what you meant about Guerilla Here? I don't understand.

@Guerilla no.3
So you started the wagon which is true. You unvoted at L-1. This isn't a newbie game. You'd have to be stupid to randomly Hammer so early without declaring intent and without an argument. If you look recently. You said you'd get along with Saudade. As he has the same reads of me and Tommy as you so. Early bussing.

Quickhammers don't only happen in newbie games and in fact in my experience I've definitely seen more happen outwith newbie games.

Outwith these quotes i like this iso another town lean for me.[/quote]

@mod- I'd just like to point out that I didn't vote Guerilla here it was due to the messed up quote tags

[wilky]

So my reads as it stands

Town: Tommy, Alch
Town Lean: LTVN
Null town: Gamma
Null: Flubber, problem, doughboy
Scum lean: Guerilla
Scum: Ezekel

In going to stick a vote on Ezekel just now but I'm pretty close to expressing intent on Guerilla too, I'll sleep on it tonight and make a decision tomorrow.

VOTE: Ezekel

[wilky]

Saudade is also a null read

[wilky]

So my reads as it stands

Town: Tommy, Alch
Town Lean: LTVN
Null town: Gamma
Null: Flubber, problem, doughboy
Scum lean: Guerilla
Scum: Ezekel

In going to stick a vote on Ezekel just now but I'm pretty close to expressing intent on Guerilla too, I'll sleep on it tonight and make a decision tomorrow.

VOTE: Ezekel

Other than you saying me vs db is copying how you played as scum, what else do you have against me?

It's basically the fact that you're aggressively reacting to everything that doughboy says. Doughboy is alot more calm and reserved throughout and actually makes me lean town on him. You're muddying the waters and you're using this 1v1 as a reason to avoid producing other content in my opinion.

I don’t like the vote by wilky. Even if I wasn’t town reading rage, there are way better votes

Wilky- the reason I called the reasoning weak is due to using your reasoning the same argument can be made for db. He just has shorter responses compared to me.

Nope you're responses and db's responses ultimately read completely different to one another.

ProHawk has 1 post that's useful. Again I want more from this slot asap. The last thing we need is passengers in d2+ and both Flubber and prohawk havent posted anywhere near enough yet

What's up doc?

Can we get actual content instead of this bullshit thankyou.

VOTE: prohawk

Flashwagon?

I like this wagon. I don't like that it's Flubber starting it due to the fact that I hold Flubber and prohawk in the same regard so far this game.

Catch up continued I forgot to mention Flubbers iso because it was so bare. I'd like to see more from that slot asap.

Went through guerrillas iso I don't like how he u turns on saudade so quickly and without any real explanation why. I also don't like the pre flip associations and that his vote on my slot is purely down to gut especially when he has another scum read. Guerrilla why isn't your vote on LTVN and can you explain your read and progression on saudade?

Fairly happy with that wagon but I think I'd rather see Ezekel run up so far.

I didn't U-turn on Saudade. I had doubts about him, but he was, admittedly anti-town. In his own words, "trolling". I wanted him more active and he used the wagon to start an early PoE.

I can't remember any pre-flip associations I did. But I don't see why that's at all sus.

My vote on your slot wasn't down to gut. Anytime someone comes in, throws a dozen votes and reads without explanation, then quickly leaves and never responds, that's immediately either anti-town or scummy. Like I can't be blamed here for putting your slot in my sus pool.

My vote isn't on LTVN because Tommy asked me to move on from him. Although I'd like him lynched today, everyone seems blinded by him. Read his ISO and you'll see why

Also nah I'm not gonna explain my progression on Saudade, you're asking me about events that happened decades ago.

I mean you wanted saudade lynched then just kind if limped away from it without as much as mentioning why. That to me is an unexplained u-turn.

You pre flip associated my slot and the LTVN slot by calling us out as the scum team. Why didn't you mention those reasons for the read on my slot beforehand then?

I want you're read progression on Saudade I don't care how long ago you think it was I want to know why you thought it was scum to begin with and what changed your mind. I also want to know where you stand on the slot now.

I recall ProHaek lurked our of his last scumgame I was present for

In a similar manner to how they are playing now or differently?

Tommy - Not a fan of his recent comment re: Saudade, sounded like a fabricated reason to get off Saudade. Could be scum.
DVa - Posts have been scummy, very probable scum - I'm voting here.
GuerillaWoo - I like his engagement, town read
Saudade - I looked back at his scum-game early on, granted it was his first scum game, but he is definitely a lot less crass than he is here. Leaning town
Flubbernugget - Need more.
LTVNGambit - Leaning town, haven't seen anything jumping out at me.
Alchemist21 - No real read here yet.... setting this in the null/sort pile
Gamma Emerald - No real read here either... setting this in the null/sort pile
Doughboy - Early town read. Still town.
EzekelRAGE - Posts feel town.

Majority of reads are from the gut, hard for me to engage stuff with all of the fighting going on in the thread.

its mostly this post because I share similar reads

This is literally the only post with content from prohawk though.

That’s actually not weak reasoning at all. Town want to stop arguing. Scum want it to fan the flames.

I think Ezekiel is calling the use of “this play is like my scumplay” weak, which I think is fair

I know what he was doing and it isn’t fair. He’s just going to disagree with anyone who says anything negative about him. What he is doing absolutely is more likely to come from scum. He keeps fanning the flames while continuing to do jack shit

I like the fanning the flames quote that's sort of my thinking

I’m not switching my vote. As long as rage is alive I’m leaving my vote on him. I gave him many chances to back off. I begged many times.

Fuck him

Meh. Can both if you drop this now pretty please...

[wilky]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76139

@tommy thus is the game here.

I jump on Gus's d1 opinion and exaggerated how much I disagreed with it. I then argued about it for a bit whilst insisting that Gus was misrepping me. The insisting of the misrep is like how Ezekel is persisting with the lying push. I also escaped having to post much of my own content d1 using this tactic and dragged bbt into it again insisting he was misrepping me

[wilky]

Welcome Toranga.

@doughboy that last post has me thinking that Gamma's right. Ezekel seems happy to move on but you're baiting him as gamma said.

[wilky]

Welcome Toranga.

@doughboy that last post has me thinking that Gamma's right. Ezekel seems happy to move on but you're baiting him as gamma said.

Got ninja'd by your last post so read post before that.

Pedit:and again go back a few posts now lol

[wilky]

Welcome Toranga.

@doughboy that last post has me thinking that Gamma's right. Ezekel seems happy to move on but you're baiting him as gamma said.

are you virtuoso?

Nope, this is my main and I have one alt "Tommy Egan"

[wilky]

PEdit: hai Tor, pls be active

depends on if the game is fun or not tbh

30 pages and still d1 means you already talked too much and derailed yourselves onto stupid arguments that lead nowhere and are like 80% of the time tvt

and I didn't even read anything

so let's get someone lynched, shall we?

who's active lurking? let's make a list of those fellas and kill inside of it

One stupid argument but yeah pretty spot on we need a claim soon.

VOTE: prohawk

[wilky]

I believe that's L-2

[wilky]

I think Toranaga is being the Towniest Town and Tommy’s post looks like a scummy attempt to shade the slot to me.

Toranaga is my most town as well. I did find it odd he flipped on thinking Prohawk is scum, which is why I dont mind Tommy posting his theory. Toranaga posted his reasoning for town reading pro. I can see a town or scum prohawk doing the "vote me" thing.

Quick prodge from me today. Had a real long day should be back to normal posting tomorrow night

[wilky]

When I prodged at the end of d1 the quote was accidental.
@toranaga the question I have though is even if the quote wasn't accidental what would be scummy about it?

VOTE: Flubber

[wilky]

Flubber is so desperate to distance himself from the night kill lol

[wilky]

@tor you still haven't addressed what was scummy in my prodge. I still want an answer for that aswell

[wilky]

UNVOTE:

[wilky]

I mean Flubber forgets the fact that my biggest scum read at the time at first wasn't going to be lynched and then was later town spewed by the mod.

Prohawk was a fairly null read to begin with but was unwilling to really provide content. I voted there as we were pushing for time and needed a claim and by the time I got back to catch up the hammer had been made.

I'm gonna do some iso's later with the knowledge of prohawk/doughboy town and with Flubber + Ezekel likely town and see where that leads me.

[wilky]

Someone talk to me about Tommy just iso'd him and still HARD TR that slot. Like there's no way I'd be down for a Tommy lynch at all but it seems to be gaining traction.

[wilky]

Is this all you have to say?? Who be scum Gamma? TOMMY?!

Well I think Flubber’s conclusions are good. So yeah, Tommy is a good vote imo

Other than being on both wagons what make a Tommy a good vote?

Can we get an idea in where the rest of your reads are at and what you lynch pool is?

[wilky]

Somethings just come up will continue the catch up either late tonight or tomorrow morning

[wilky]

Ebwop: will continue the iso's/read reset rather than catch up

[wilky]

Sorry guys been a hectic few days and to top it all off I've broken my laptop.

So far I'm at town in Tommy, Alchemist, Flubber and Ezekel

Got a slight town read on Saudade

Toranaga I felt had a good catch up but there's nothing really outwith that. I mean the fact he can't answer my question from the beginning of day makes me think he doesn't have an answer and it was scum trying to lay foundations for a later push.

VOTE: Toranaga

[wilky]

Apart from breaking my laptop and work being hectic at the moment I'm fine lol.

Anything you want answered from me?

[wilky]

Ok I missed tors answer to my question, it still doesn't seem a vote worthy reason though. Tor also seems to be skating on a decent catch up and done not else since.

@flubber assuming you are town would scum partners be on both mislynch wagons? D1 me and Guerilla were both on wagon and d2 we were both on you.

[wilky]

@mod: V/LA until monday