Mini Normal 2030: Day 8

[Performer]

Hello all. I see you there light, FL, GE, krazy, crimson, creat, a50, prof.
I'm sorry if I forgot anyone else.

I did a super quick skim and wow - anyone who didn't have saud as tr, shame on you . Could even tr him from before replacing and I was right, yes! Never been wrong about this except that 1 time I came into an SK slot.

In related news, GE pushing for a lynch on me when we have little time left, is very A L A R M I N G. I saw 1 claim in my skim.
Can people summarize what happened so far because I am not going thru an unreal 110 page d1... this is M E S S E D U P, why so many pages!?

[Performer]

Tell me why you all were voting me come on. I want to defend myself.

Crim you were one of the smaller ISOs to go through. What did you gain from wagon analysis?
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I do like FL's process of voting naomi , due to his 2824. Very hesitant though since she's v/la.
GE why are you sr on saud slot - this question goes to anyone sr on this slot too.
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From what i could skim through so far, I like kraz, FL, light, a50, sash. worst/ge/creat don't look good to me based on posts alone - I don't think lynching worst is a great idea on d1 especially with a claim though.
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@light thanks for the compliment! Your self vote was very unusual for you to do.

[Performer]

@a50 it was saud was interacting with rogers iirc, the tone of his reactions, his interactions in his ISO with others. I rely on ISO a lot.

[Performer]

Glad to see you. You were a great IC in the game we played before.

GOOD! So you two can give reads on each other that are better than mine on either of you. Please do help (of course Performer needs to post some for Light to be able to form a read)

I also have meta with crim when he was town jk in a newbie game. His play here seems to resemble that game. Other than that, if I base the sound of his posts and his claim on d1, I wouldn't be comfortable lynching him. Those familiar with me know how I am about claimed prs on d1.

I played with light in at least 2 games where he was town. What I've gone thru so far , he seems like his town self here. That self vote is still highly unusual.

I want to see crim's reply to FL's idea of flipping him.

[Performer]

Interesting.

Can I get reads from light ethos and the claimed prs please (other than tw, who left of course).

Fairly certain there's at least 1 scum in the super active posters. NO way a game with this player list and almost 120 pgs, is going like this without at least 1 scum in the super active posters - causing mayhem simply by pushing the page count. Anyway, that's my theory.

That vote on crimson and a50's case on creature behavior, makes me VOTE: Creature.
Still catching up with things in the meantime.

[Performer]

@50: but 1 possible pr voting a claimed pr? A # of You guys have a ton more experience than even me, but in what world would that make any sense on d1? I get that people might use reaction testing but that's crazy/confusing if town, and scummy if well, scum.

And how are we going to relate his play here to his meta of him being a possible pr? Can people actually back that super specific role meta explanation up for Creature? What in the?
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regarding krazy, he's probably my top tr based on the interactions and ISOs I've seen. He expressed care that other possible prs are still out there.

[Performer]

Alright, I'm caught up now. Why does a town Doctor immediately hard claim without first defending himself? Why does Krazy force a hard claim when he was the L-1 vote, and nobody has announced intent?

Break this down for me - what was questionable about kraz getting someone at L-1 to claim, regardless of intent to hammer? This is strange. I've seen your town play before and I find it fishy of you to post something like this.

Sashaddin is new, and this might just be how he plays. The passivity isn't necessarily helpful though. Saudade is experienced here, and this is probably just how he plays. The tunneling isn't helpful unless he's right.
I liked your case and reasoning against the worst. He still is my main scum read. If I'm wrong about you in this moment, Saudade, I'll learn a lot from this game. I still think both Mister Rogers and Saudade are town.

UNVOTE: Krazy
VOTE: Sashaddin

I'm interested to see what Flavor Leaf thinks. I see him voting Saudade here, but I don't know.

This post sounds like possible fence sitting. "don't know, if I'm wrong, interested to see" what FL thinks.

It looks different from your 2 town games, Light.

[Performer]

Ok. But nobody even claimed Masons as far as I saw though

a doc, vig, gunsmith...I could buy that as balanced. But how are there 2 Masons?

And aren't rogers & krazy neighbors? That defeats the argument of 2 Masons in a game with just 13.

[Performer]

Wait a minute - I was thinking the neighbs and masons would all be town, but I see what is being said now upon further thought.
hm.....

[Performer]

Sash also another tr of mine , sounds like rookie town due to his reactions and how he's been trying to get more info to sort folks.

I can't get a read on profi. Anyone townreading him?

I agree with FL's logic about the Vig Neighbor sentence & the sentence before that. Putting him as a tr too.

[Performer]

also I think both neighbors are town

Is there anyone scumreading rogers? I certainly am not townreading him based on his ISO. Asked for me & creat to be lynched or vigged.

if there's a pr I'd be ok with lynching, it'd be rogers of all the possible and claimed prs. His 2337 is also scummy as he has me on a death list. His 2636 further pinned creat & saud as scum. Also, there is sometimes scum in a hood so there's that.

A very ridiculously verbose ISO , good grief...

People who tr rogers & prof, why??

[Performer]

I’m up for a Creature or Saud lynch

this is hilariously like what Rogers was pushing for .

But you mentioned you don't coast as scum...that is in fact true if it's anything like what you did in NY 213.
And interaction between you & him makes me think you're less likely scum compared to rogers.

VOTE: rogers

Needs
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the claim from creature:
sigh

[Performer]

Dewd I dont see how all you guys can make all this speculation based on unconfirmed claims. Its super dangerous, we need to sort this out tomorrow and then start doing setup spec. The only exception is if we have an obvious fakeclaim like we do with Worst.

fine with lynching this

anyway here's a crimson TPR game -- viewtopic.php?t=76171&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

one thing I notice here is that he has a reads list by 297 -- viewtopic.php?p=10183925#p10183925

which was on d1

so Crimson was super disengaged this game when usually he is actually a bit more engaged as tpr than he is as VT

but this game has also been a clusterfuck so idk for sure, but there is a case to be made for crimson scum

yeah crim definitely needs to be followed up with in d2
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I think I've made it quite clear, you've been pushing for saud's death . I omgus vote in rvs but we're not in rvs. During the ISOs reviews, you came up to be most suspect.
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@FL yes

[Performer]

pedit: replied to krazy/rogers/FL in that post

[Performer]

I kinda wanna lynch profii

anyone else feelin that slot?

I’m happy to vote TW - I’m happy to vote Crimson, or Krazy, or Golfball

I can’t put my vote in 4 places and I’m obviously wrong about at least 1 of those I would imagine so get your toys and put them back in the pram

pretty sure this is scum

I'm really kinda feelin' this slot guys what you think?

I’d rather go Rogers who keeps saying Worst has the most likely fake claim when he setup makes sense with it, so the others would have to be more fake

I'm ok with either , preferably rogers. Ultimately don't want a no lynch though .

[Performer]

posting a vote on boon again for clarity, pushing prof for having no more than 15 words so far, elaborating what FOS meant to sash, her call out on LE for not pushing anyone at 1017 (Light's town play is proactive), 1047 about sorting sash, the rest of her ISO has interactions that make me think town/no agenda - these are good actions likely from town.
The clarity for easier reading, pushing lurking, being cooperative/helpful, calling something suspicious out, trying to sort slots.

The one big question mark was why she kept pushing for crim's death despite claimed pr on d1. Have her as ? until her reply.

@Naomi that's for you when you come back

[Performer]

a50: you made a super specific "if creat is scum or mason, he plays like this" before his mason claim - this just sounds fabricated. creat later claimed mason unprovoked on d1 - still scummy with tw as far as I know, based on play alone.

As for why rogers would go after krazy his neighbor instead of pocketing him , my guess is LAMIST. Asking for people to reduce # of posts could be another LAMIST attempt. His continued push on my slot's death is scummy for sure.

Your point of him picking a fight with FL & tw is NAI to me . Anyone could do that.

I've gotten very uncomfortable with your slot, I thought you were town a50 . Are you town this game??..
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as for all these claims on d1
absolutely there is someone L Y I N G. ABSOLUTELY.
this G A I M is messsed U P

[Performer]

To where I was caught up, my strongest town reads are Rogers and almost. I'm fine with doing what you want here.

You were not like this in the 2 town games, I recall you being proactive, sort of a town leader.

Whoa disregard posts 3027 and 3028 entirely please. I completely forgot that we got a time extension. Those two posts were in the context of expecting that the deadline was within the next few minutes. Going to catch up now and finish this day out normally. Again, please disregard 3027 and 3028.

Your play in those games was not like this, I don't recall posts like this...the whole posting 2 posts and then asking us to disregard, that you didn't fully catch up. Scum busywork maybe?
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Alright. I got back in from work a lot later than I had hoped, and I had to take work home with me that needed to be completed by the morning. Rogers. You're here. I haven't caught up since I've left. Can you give me a quick summary since the day is almost over. Also I see a wagon going on the Doctor claim. Do I hammer it or not?

Lynching the town Doc is scummy as all heck. There is nothing about his claim that should lead anyone to doubt it -- THERE IS NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE TO DO SO.

I personally cannot fully trust Almost, I think its too soon. He is just a clear town-leaning slot. His vote on the Doc shows either incredible mental weakness (WIFOM claim speculation) or scum motivation, IMO.

Somebody prove to me how working with unconfirmed claims that could be made BY SCUM should be used in town analysis of slots. This is just like FAIL. Seriously.

I can't see a town a50 voting claimed doc on d1 in this manner, either. Hm.....

[Performer]

Before I make this post, something interesting I noticed here is that even though Performer substituted in for Saudade, he’s reading the game completely differently than the way Saudade did. Saudade was adamant that the worst and Sashaddin were scum together. He did not buy the worst’s claim, and he did not buy Sashaddin’s Newbie excuse. Performer has become somewhat of a carbon copy of Flavor Leaf with respect to Saudade. He buys green!Sashaddin, and he buys green!theworst. Completely different players in the same slot. I haven’t seen that happen in replaces before, but I’m sure it does happen.

Ok I just finished looking over your wall post, that's understandable. I do like that you're developing your play, I had to do a lot of that in earlier games and still do in current day. Regarding me and ex-slots playing differently, that's to be given for any replacement. I absolutely don't buy green tw or green creat based on play alone.

How have you not seen different play in replaces before?? How can you say this, light?
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This is my green list :Naomi, FL, Performer. I'd be hesitant to lynch Crimson, having found nothing of interest in his ISO a couple of times. The others have claimed so they're untouchable it seems. Although I don't really believe The Worst's claim at all. I think he did a solid mistake and that he just abandoned after that.

But why are you townreading me ?
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@everyone can someone find somebody to come into tw slot? I asked someone already but no reply.
If he really is a gunsmith, we risk a modkilled pr.

[Performer]

@prof I concur with the logic. I want to add that I won't put it past a50, fl, and krazy to not fake claim whether scum or town. In fact if they're all scum, I'm sorry to say but this game is over lol.
I want to see crim's wagon defense. I don't see it as a town move for him to not be around near deadline.

I can't believe I'm offering this idea but what if we no lynch? With so many claims going into d2, if scum all fake claimed, it's next to suicidal. And with out playerlist, I'm thinking we're ready to weed out the lies regardless of a lynch. I'm very much for a lynch in a general game but this what's happened in this one has obviously made it an atypical game.

[Performer]

you guys need to wagon and lynch scum d1.
you need to get off me asap because this is a bad lynch.

I'm not being lynched today, absolute end of discussion.

this wasn't how he played when I was scum v him town, in the mini normal hosted by schad. way too defensive so unlike his town self

yeah TW, Krazy, Sasha can be scum.
I think Voyagers slot is a crucial key to solving this puzzle

*sigh*

hmm looking back at my slot's ISO....hm. tw, krazy, sash as scum. That actually may not be farfetched.
2 masons, 2 neighbors (krazy as vig too), doc, gunsmith.
I actually want crim to be on FL instead of anyone else. If krazy really is scum, makes sense he'd push for prof & his neighbor roger to die. Vig neighbor & gunsmith are easy to fake claim. Hm...........

anwyas

VOTE: Naomi
I feel bad for townreading the effort originally.

His push for naomi & manatee/dough/a50's deaths - if tw is scum - then these 2 are likely town.

[Performer]

pedit: too many replacements - his push for naomi & manatee/creat's deaths - if tw is scum - then those 2 are likely town

[Performer]

Spoiler: long post about krazy

So you're an alt right? Is this a meme account or a real account?

Pedit: @dough

No I’m not an alt.

Neighborhoods always have scum and the worst always fakeclaims pr... these are things you say with one game from newbie queue? Are you doing hard meta on the duck or wtf is with your posts? These are not things a new player says.

I almost did but then I remembered you're the worst

Btw the duck is town so y'all can back off a touch. Scum duck does not get this tilted. He loves fakeclaims and wouldn't seem angry giving one.

Duck you have permission to lynch the manatee or frank, light is off the table

aka Creature & a50

Dewd I dont see how all you guys can make all this speculation based on unconfirmed claims. Its super dangerous, we need to sort this out tomorrow and then start doing setup spec. The only exception is if we have an obvious fakeclaim like we do with Worst.

fine with lynching this

anyway here's a crimson TPR game -- viewtopic.php?t=76171&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

one thing I notice here is that he has a reads list by 297 -- viewtopic.php?p=10183925#p10183925

which was on d1

so Crimson was super disengaged this game when usually he is actually a bit more engaged as tpr than he is as VT

but this game has also been a clusterfuck so idk for sure, but there is a case to be made for crimson scum

you know what, fuck it, let's make it a thing

Vote Profii

So, krazy wanted prof/rogers/a50/creat dead.
a50 townreads creat & rogers, has sr on crim.
I might be going crazy here but his interactions with worst are so incredibly weird. Also, tw as town didn't fake claim when I played with him before - so krazy's point about that, is odd at the least.
prof stated he could go for tw, krazy, crimson.

VOTE: the worst

[Performer]

-Light - thanks for the elaboration. From my catch up posts earlier, I've come to think you're not scum, as you and tw interactions were very revealing
-a50 posts like your 3070 are extremely charming. Reminds me of bbt & thor665. If krazy/tw/a50 are the scum team, I swear to God, I swear...
-If I had to choose between a claimed doc & gunsmith in terms of value, I'd choose doc for protection. Gunsmith could easily be scum saying later, "X has no gun." At least with doc if they are town, they could possibly protect the right person
-if crimson ends up being the lynch, you guys have to do that without me. I'm sorry but no way am I comfortable lynching a possible protective on d1

[Performer]

Maybe a crim, tw, krazy team then, is more plausible then.

a50 I've never seen your scum game so I don't know how your scum game is to comment on, though I see where you're coming from. crim absolutely isn't on my tr and has become null for my read. Seeing as how deadline is tonight, tw & crim are on naomi who I don't believe is likely scum, and 3/4 of the wagon isn't scummy (FL/a50/naomi). Ok.

VOTE: crimson
Man, I am putting a ton of faith into you and FL here.

[Performer]

Light why did you claim too?? Man.

[Performer]

#3079 and #3080 are SO SCUMMY I must change my vote when I see obv-scum-posting like this:

"Well I am voting the Doc but its only because these other players said to do so"

Caught scum here, obvscum. Too late to go back to voting me again.

Vote: Performer

Have you played with any of the other players here before and seen their town games? FL, Krazy, A50, Light, Performer's?
In a game as atypical as this, I'm open to team cooperation as it's a team game.
It's insane to lynch a claimed doc in a general game, yes I know that and am averse to that more than many players. But this game is as un-general/atypical as it gets.

And if I were to just sheep and be open wolfing around deadline like you're accusing me of , you have no idea of my scum game, which isn't this.

[Performer]

I'm like pretty sure Saudade was town, he tiltreplaced out with a tpr claim but before masons, so if he's scum looking at the number of tprs he wasn't losing his shit there... I think he was focused on Sashaddin and wanted a lynch there and it wasn't happening and he got pissed at the replacements (or maybe even the mod backpedaling the modkills--I think he was looking forward to the modkills and kinda lost it when they were poo-poo'd). he just sounds like an overeager vanilla town to me. I think Performer's town because Saudade was town

y are you saying i'm vt but at first you say tpr??

[Performer]

H O L D up

Sash didn't I ask you why you have tr on me ? I don't see a reply in your I S O

[Performer]

Sash didn't I ask you why you have tr on me ? I don't see a reply in your I S O

Ddidn't see it sorry.
I thought your slot was scum at first because of Saudade's acting weird with Doughboy. Then he went for Krazy then for me. With the vigor he put into lynching me, I begun to doubt more and more of my read. That guy... just doesn't let go. Plus the others were seeing town so I began to doubt myself. I finally changed my read later, and didn't even jump on your wagon when it had 3 votes.
I can see you+him being town, probably vanilla because he might have stayed with a role.

so who are your scum reads then?

[Performer]

off topic:

well I need to start prepping for my next shift. I'll get off work in like 6 hours, so I should have 2 hours or so on the clock to get in and catch up when I'm off.

we do lynch today. we get a flip.

interesting ! what do you do?

[Performer]

ok I'm good with a sash lynch as well.

I'm getting why saud believed what he did now, and I am reversing my read on sash.
sash had sr on saud, saud was vigorous in lynching him, sash doubted his read of the guy because of that, changed read on me as tr, made a totally irrelevant statement about a possible role that I had. Way too passive in a scum coasting way.

[Performer]

It's gonna be a hammer on Crimson

You're on. I say it's "wassup **nts"

Or even "Here I am walking in without reading any of the game."
I used to find him super annoying but over time he's grown on me honestly. I can't count the # of times he's helped out a non-large game keep moving forward. Seriously.

I don't like the idea of lynching Crimson, but I trust the ones on the wagon.
I'd like a flip to get info (and remove players)
But putting him at L-1 would look bad for me.
That's where I'm at.

Why does Not_Mafia hammer everyone regardless of alignment?

that's his playstyle
like rc, he can be ... unpredictable at times
something predictable is his naked voting & quick hammers though
interestingly I enjoyed his town doctor player in that one newbie game with crimson town jk vs scum rockeater, who turned out to be faking how much of a rookie he was being

[Performer]

@sash thanks for not quitting. In the beginning of my FM career, I felt the same way about quitting so I took a short break. The break helped me figure out if I wanted to return too.
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I want to take a moment to honor everyone who has continued in this atrociously long-page game for a game that's not a large. I want to applaud the mod for keeping up, and give a big standing ovation to not_mafia who replaced in to help us keep this game moving. I'm dead serious.

[Performer]

I genuinely think what made the wagon on Crimson possible to get through were two things: the mason reveal and Performer's difference in play from Saudade. Saudade was fully in the "No power roles voted out Day 1" camp. Performer bent on that.

yes - I think experience & a willingness to team cooperate is very important in bizarre games like this. I too don't like voting claimed prs on d1 but there are moments when we need to go above and beyond. Also I am calling it a night, need to go shower and get ready for work .

[Performer]

hey all, returning from v/a over the weekend. Phone posting so unable to go in depth on things at the moment.

some things I want to add over the night phase are that if krazy & rogers lived, then I think they're possibly scum that fake claimed. A lot of things will depend on the result nm got, and seriously hoping he checked 1 of those 2 overnight.

Will have to catch up and follow-up on things later when I get some downtime.

[Performer]

Mixed in with Performer trying not to have Crimson lynched yet went on anyways.

@Performer - I understand why you would do that from a townie mindset as well, but I could see it a second projection, then you realized it was going to go through so a bus happened.

I don’t think you did any misplay. I actually think it was the correct play. I just feel like that’s what happened.

Unconventional times like this game, call for unconventional strategies.
@LE learning experience for you, isn't it!

Looks like you agree to a certain extent, Rogers.

VOTE: Performer

I think I want another gunsmith check. We should have NM check Gamma tonight, and then see from there.

Though I like that we should keep nm alive once more, if he's town and GE is scum, then we risk losing another pr. We lost a cop & a vig already, and by the looks of things - krazy shot sash.

I think it’s Performer and one of Profii/Gamma/NM.

Gamma is saying it’s not likely Rogers is a neighbour

This leaves him with little choice off wagon - ie if Gunsmith busses, do we think both scum pals busses? I doubt it

So look off wagon

Sash - flipped
Krazy - flipped
Crimson - flipped

That leaves

Rogers - gamma declared this likely town
Gamma himself
Me
Performer

Hence the reason I asked him what his read on me was - he is not forthcoming with with either a scum-busser (outside the obvious) or his options off wagon for scum #3 - he has pretty much gotta scum read me or performer given the above PoE and I think given he couldn’t even say “I think you are ____” he hasn’t formulated a fake read so he deflected

Which makes n_m worth hanging on to for now

VOTE: gamma
Or pointing the finger off wagon

I agree with FL & prof's analyses of nm worth hanging onto, and prof's thoughts on GE. GE did push for my death, now that krazy flipped town, GE called Rogers town, maybe GE & Rogers are the final partners with NM as a possibility.

I dislike that NM checked LE for a random reason as he said - this makes me inclined to think he's scum. In what world do you go random in an unconventional game like this!? This is exactly like when I was scum & my partners strongly wanted a random kill on n1 in another game - which ultimately led to our defeat. I was Nagini in that Harry Potter themed game (Mafia Ninja). Fun times .

[Performer]

@Performer: Who do we lynch today and why (reasons)?

@NM: Who are your scum candidates for today and what are the reasons behind your decisions concerning them?

@Gamma: If you had the ability to lynch your top scum suspects today, who would they be and what is the most compelling reason for voting each of them?

You, GE, NM (possibly, based on what happens in the future). My reasons are same from yesterday. Krazy flipped grn, that gives even more reason for me to think of you being red. NM's random check of LE doesn't look good at all.

[Performer]

off topic:

Damn, Profii. That was scummy. Right after I went for Performer you did the exact only other option that could potentially get you two lynched in NM/Gamma

right the lesson from our pair game was sometimes dont try and survive if flipping me is pro town.

dont take me and gamma to lylo

either both scum bussed Crimson or one of us is scum.,

agreed profii - one of the most tragic realizations I've come to realize in my FM career is that sometimes we have to be ok with, and even secretly want ourselves to get lynched. There are times when it's actually very pro town.

@LE how's that for bizarre? Lol

[Performer]

Btwm, RE: Gamma, would a player of Gamma's skill bus NM?

I don't think bussing your p on D2 after your other p has been lynched on D1 is at all an option.

Sasha was one of my strongest suspects after the Crimson flip has been confirmed, so while I regret the death of TPR I really really can't blame Krazy for shooting there.

I also say it's very unlikely (from my own PoV) that Rogers is scum. I don't see scum going out of there way to defend Crimson that hard. He is most probably just a noob playing by the book. (Despite his join date he has less than 2K posts in total).

Back to mys suspects, I think Performer/Gamma have at least one scum in them (now that Sasha is gone). In my mind it was Performer+Sasha with Gamma as an outsider. I admit I still could be wrong about Gamma because I have a tendency to SR his playstyle of late, so not pushing there.

Also, I see N_M already accumulated 4 votes, so I think it's safe to

VOTE: Performer

for now, although I have yet to read beyond this post I'm quoting.

@Rogers: Check tw's read lists (he posted 2 of them). In both he had Sasha as a STRONG TOWN READ. That's not scum!tw. Scum!tw would have gone with the flow, and Sasha was by no means a global TR. I'm not gonna talk about his TR on Krazy and/or SR on Crimson because -if scum- his knowledge of their true alignments would dictate such reads (since they were both "claimed PRs"). Sasha didn't claim and thus I see no reason for tw to TR him this strong.

Anyway, will try to catch up in the next few minutes bc I have a game to watch and then come back to you.

I swear to God, if you end up actually being scum....

Rogers defending crims could've just been a deep LAMIST attempt. Kept telling us how people would look bad for voting a claimed doc and now crim flipped red, yeah , Rogers is looking mighty guilty now.

I did the wagonomics on Profii, he isn't scum for his VERY early interactions with the Crimson wagons.

No wonder nm didn't like your wagonomics wording

[Performer]

upon an ISO skim, I still don't see how GE is the scummiest possibility .

VOTE: M I S T E R R O G E R S

[Performer]

Not Mafia PLEASE. Check a better target than randomizing targets... you're killing me here.

[Performer]

I also want Performer and really hope he flips red, because then it puts my mind to ease for good regarding Rogers. I mean, I gave him slack for defending Crimson, but if profii is also scum I'm PLing Rogers for his defence of profii based on a "3rd vote on scum wagon which he changed soon after".

In other words I could see it being profii+Rogers but it would make me laugh at myself being the VI here.

The problem is, when I get lynched today due to poe & other arguments, scum is just going to have gamm/profi/rogers alive. What then?

I'm absolutely certain there's at least 1 more fake claim in the pr claims. Absolutely - and it's between nm & rogers. In fact, based on what's transpired with rogers contributing compared to nm, I'm starting to think it should be nm I need to be voting.

And iirc, GE voted nm, prof voted GE....then GE could be town while it's prof & rogers as the last 2?
I can't see scum realistically trying to bus today. really can't think of a reason for them to do so, hence my thought process on that.

I think my play yesterday was Crim/TW//Krazy but Saudade was making so much noise about not lynching PR claims

I’m doing a lot of setup spec but I don’t actually know where to go today - I think it’s essential we pick a lynch which forces scum to also kill somewhere that helps PoE tomorrow

Gut feels is Performer would be no problem but need to check

Despite my wondering if prof is actually scum, a post like this I do agree with - the part about forcing scum to kill somewhere that helps poe, though it will still be tough. On a related note, nm is hardly one to go with what we recommend, so....if we risk leaving him alive to checks someone, regardless of alignment he might just check someone of his own choosing, so wouldn't that leave us in the same boat as today is what I'm afraid of.

[Performer]

nm what are your reads and why?

[Performer]

[quote="In

No because we couldn't trust each other. I couldn't tell him that Sasha was Cop and he couldn't tell me that he was going to vig him.

I already quoted his crumb that me and FL caught early D1. Its his 4th post.

You didn’t trust Krazy? If he was scum fakeclaiming then it would have shown. Let’s say He was and you told him Sasha was cop. Do you not think Sasha dying and no one else wouldn’t look extremely suspicious?

@krazy if you did shoot sash yesterday, man am I angry......
you, GE, FL, Creat - you guys saw what happened in the hood logistics in NY 213. Why didn't you shoot rogers if you 2 distrusted each other that much according to rogers.

Haven't gotten to re-ISO of krazy & sash's massive ISOs yet, but have to do that to see if I find anything.

[Performer]

I just checked what I said

I said I was baiting FL - which was the main point of hinting but I don’t outright say I was messing about

Something ain’t right here

something's not been right about rogers since d1, I 've been posting about it.
Not too sure why GE quit pushing for me to die today, as he & rogers wanted this slot's death on d1. Now he's voting nm.... maybe GE is likelier town than prof & rogers, is my immediate hypothesis.

Did you teach Saudade how to play? It's like he never left.

Nm probably did!

[Performer]

placeholder:

continue from 1278 in Krazy's ISO.
776 mentioned naomi flipping scum before his read of the parrot slot, though he was not super sure on those yet. mentioned prof scum & tw/nm as town.

[Performer]

I think your death is pretty much set, so why expend effort for something that’s already happening?

because it might help others in future phases . And if people were so convinced, I'd be dead already. So I am continuing to dig through and provide what I can.

[Performer]

THere was NO NEED for him to hard claim. WHEN DO YOU START SEEING REALITY!?

Why the fuck did you want the person you put to L-2 not to claim? Are you seriously just fucking around with your votes? This day has lasted weeks, we are not waiting for Frank's replacement to lynch someone, this shit has gotten absurd. Like, are YOU rolefishing? Why the fuck would you put him to L-2 if you don't want him to hardclaim and get lynched if he's not a TPR?

Townread

Flavor Leaf

Spoiler:

Look at that face and tell me he's not town.

Real talk: 97 103 111 and 122 in conjunction with each other indicate town!Flavor, even though I think he is wrong about 122

Doughboy

Spoiler:

Aww, he's so temperamental! But he's still probably town. Basically I don't think scum ever responds to my icebreaker like he did.

Light Ethos

Spoiler:

I think he probably flips town!

Real talk: While I understand Flavor is concerned that 587 and 592 look like IIoA, I basically just buy this guy being so new he seriously thought we could plausibly be in 4:9. I personally take 587 as a townslip.

The Duck

Spoiler:

The duck doesn't get angry as scum. Getting angry from d1 pressure after replacing in to a TPR makes a lot of sense.

Likely town

Saudade

Spoiler:

He could go either way, but I think he grows into something beautiful for the town this game.

Real talk: Things like 198 look more like town!Saudade, although my read here is weaker than for Flavor or Doughboy.

Crimson

Spoiler:

I think he probably flips town!

Real talk: This read right now is almost 100% based on 346 which I really liked. Low certainty on this read but I'm fine with it for now.

Paranoia note: 346 reads very similar to Naomi's traitor post here -- viewtopic.php?p=8643000#p8643000 so if Naomi were to somehow flip red I might have to re-evaluate this read on the risk that Crimson is getting tutored in the scum PT.

Null / Very Mixed Feelings

The Parrot

Spoiler:

Need I say more?

Naomi

Spoiler:

*note that the gifs were selected earlier in the day and a few slots have moved. deal with it.

Naomi is a competent scum player and in general a powergamer. The main things I have noticed from Naomi are: An early push on Flavor: 95 followed by a shift to profii in 205, a lack of reaction to my case on Frank in 318 and 319, an unvote in 475, a strange case on Light in 554, and a rambling reads list in 565. So there is a lot to work with here, but it does not easily point to a clear, definite answer on a read.

"Scum Game 1"
As scum, Naomi tends to be more aggressive early
Here's a scum game where she starts with an early push: viewtopic.php?p=4585949#p4585949
Unvotes to reevaluate: viewtopic.php?p=4601659#p4601659
Then after getting some pressure for not voting comes back with more pressure: viewtopic.php?p=4616997#p4616997

I was scumreading her for most of this dayphase because this looks a lot like the trajectory of 95 --> 205 --> an unvote in 475 --> 554

Likewise, since I feel like Frank is scum, 318 and 319 seemed like a scummy way to react.

"Town Game 1"
As town she tends to be much more reactive -- it takes her long time to vote at all here: viewtopic.php?t=69502&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

But there's also a lot to point to her being town and that makes me lack certainty on her being scum.

Towncase counter-argument:

"Town Game 2"
In this VT game she does an RVS, unvotes, and then pushes later the same day here: viewtopic.php?t=29652&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

So town game 2 matches her play style here relatively well.

Another counter-argument to Naomi scum comes from Scum Game 1: viewtopic.php?p=4651585#p4651585
As you can see there, the reads list is a lot less detailed than her reads this game.

It's also the case that as town she tends to ramble more in her reads lists, as you can see form this town game reads list: viewtopic.php?p=8691601#p8691601

Rebuttal:

"Traitor Game 1"
But you can see she is fully capable of doing a detailed reads list as a Scum Traitor here -- viewtopic.php?p=8643218#p8643218

My main issue with using this as a rebuttal point is that she has a lot more incentive to do a detailed reads list as scum when she is traitor since she is trying to communicate with the scum team.

To that extent I end up having mixed feelings on Naomi. Among my mixed reads, I think she flips scum before the parrot.

Possible Scum

The Golfball

Spoiler:

I was scumreading this slot for a while, but the replace-out AtE bothered me more than I expected.

There's not a lot to work with in terms of meta here but here's what we got:
Goon - viewtopic.php?t=76282&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- viewtopic.php?t=76641&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- viewtopic.php?t=76983&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

In this respect, I feel like it's not unreasonable to say that 357 is scummy. If you look at the VT games, he does unvote on occasion, but he also is usually quicker to come back and put pressure on slots. He also is willing to name scumreads. It's unusual for him to have such weak reads or be unwilling to commit to reads. Likewise, the main thing that bothers me is the frequency with which he plays the newbie card, which he also used quite frequently in his scum game win in newbie queue.

Counter-argument:
He never unvotes in his one scum game, but he does in his town games, so there is the risk that taking the time to reassess the game is actually town indicative. This keeps him in the pink for now, rather than the dark red.

Mostly Mute Profii

Spoiler:

89 was the start to a very passive early game. It was also weird how he asked for my read on Naomi in 187 when he hadn't said his own. In 294 he accuses Frank of white knighting me, but then in 352 implies he thinks I'm scum. Then in 369 he says that me and LE are a scum team. One thing that REALLY threw me was 386, because even though he had "ding ding" on me being scum, he agreed with Saudade that it was "Frank + any Lurker"... unless he sees me as a lurker (I'm not)? I started to get bored of his fake two post restriction 442 when he accused me of "role fishing" his obviously fake role, but at that point I wasn't sure whether he was straight up channeling Meme Man or Pod Person and if I ruined his trolling fun immediately he'd self-destruct. Surprise surprise, when I finally get fed up with people asking him about it he backlashes at me. In 461 he starts on the shit reasoning that there "has" to be scum in the neighborhood (to be clear, out of the three games with neighborhoods I have been in, only 1/3 had scum in the neighborhood, and that was a theme game). He says "admittedly assuming" but he then continues with that same shit logic when he breaks out of the fake two post restriction.

Right now if he's town I think he is literally the heaviest person in the game, and I just characterized the Parrot as a Snorlax. After 600 I have downgraded this slot to my bottom 4 but I am not certain this is scum quite yet; for much of the day he has been floating up and down my neutrals list, but with my other reads solidifying and my scumread of Naomi softening, I'm starting to think this is more likely to flip red.

Likely Scum

Frank

Spoiler:

I guess people weren't blown away by my Frank case, but for reference, the question isn't "is skipping RVS scummy" the question is "is skipping RVS scummy for the player"

There's not a huge sample size for Frank, but here it is:

Third Party -- viewtopic.php?t=70956&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- viewtopic.php?t=70754&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- viewtopic.php?t=69166&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

He does not skip RVS as VT and he does as SK. So that raises the question--why did he skip it this game? I don't feel like I ever got a sense of why he was avoiding it this game, and it leads in to my sense that he has been playing defensively. His push on Saudade seemed safe and weak and then he went into hardlurk. Seems like pretty likely scum to me.

The Manatee

Spoiler:

I summarized my main feelings on the Manatee here: 578. The self-vote, in and of itself, is NAI. The question is what has he done since then. And the answer is--nothing. This is consistent with his scum game, of taking a long time to formulate cases and sitting on weak votes for a long period of time.

Since he 'came back' all he has offered are posts like: 657, 676 which suggest he is only right now looking at a few players, and those players I am fairly certain are town. I think he can't figure out a solid mislynch and so he basically is basically lurking until he figures out what to do. You can tell that he has posted elsewhere on site during his prod, so it's not like he wasn't logging on--he has been logging on and ignoring this thread, which suggests he doesn't know what to do, which is more consistent with his scum game. That or he's waiting for suggestions in his scum PT.

As in 578 I still have some concerns with the case here, namely that he usually makes SLIGHTLY more of an effort to seem pro-town as scum than he has here. But if you look at his town games, he's not afraid to put pressure on slots with his vote, which he basically is not doing at all here.

It has almost nothing to do with my reaction test - I’ve been trying to steer people that way with posting the percentages and such but I knew it could wait whilst I was doing the 2 word thing

Personally I think the optimal play is to deal with the neighbourhood RIGHT NOW

My working theory is 2 hood dudes outed themselves and someone even said “why not masons” I’m assuming a third dude probably posted in the PT “don’t out me yet please” - simple as that

Even then all things considered

3 scum in 13 is a 23% chance of hitting scum today
1 in 3 in the hood is 33% - with the added benefit if we hit scum then we get 1 (poss 2) innos and we keep any kind of protective un-outed so we can hang on to our inno for a while

Personally I think we go for Krazy over Doughboy
Doughboy seemed legit annoyed at me that I wasn’t playing “properly”

Krazy on the other has was straight in the wiki checking for a PR potential in me which seems scummy to me

VOTE: Krazy

Right now your case requires us to believe that:
A) There are three people in the hood, which no one has actually said
B) That if there are three people in the hood, one is certainly scum, which is false
C) That I checked the wiki about your obvious fakeclaim, which no one who plays in NY regularly needed to do

Right now you are looking actually heavier than the Manatee and that guy is currently voting himself.

yeah those 3 are probably the posts that stick out to me the most from krazy.

also @GE I use various techniques like teamwork vote, nka, and the posts & interactions of the dead - krazy being one of them. I would think you know this already, so why would you ask me why I am trying to work with the dead person dave's posts and other's posts

[Performer]

pedit: not dave, I meant krazy

[Performer]

Gamma is playing a very good game here on D2 and it will be hard to accept that he is scum with either NM or Performer.

GE is in no way on my team. For that matter, I'm not teamed with anyone since I'm not scum anyway...

[Performer]

One thing I CAN say though. If I was scum Sauda and I had scum buddies of Worst/Crimson, I would be bussing with the slightest hint of any pressure on either slot. There is no way a lynch would be going down without me on a leading position. They both are horrendous active lurkers but Worst is just like an expert at it as either alignment.

I can back this up about saud & tw in terms of active lurking.

[Performer]

I think I just found the final 2 members.

UNVOTE:

Will be posting what I've gathered, need to edit for readability.

[Performer]

disclaimer: this is best if done on computer rather than mobile - I found that having this tab and another tab for ISO review open, was ideal. Because it was way too time consuming to include the post tag for each post #, so having 2 tabs open is ideal if you want to really read through this.

1. doughboy/rogers – 479 looks pretty good against profi
was thinking the same thing about prof’s two-word ISO in earlier d1 –
along with Krazys 621 on prof

2. Crim’s ISO -
2829 & 2844 are two of many posts that stand out for his ISO.

-barely speaks about GE/pernic/uc voyager, rocky/tw/nm, prof.
just looking at GE’s pernicious slot with 9 posts, that doesn’t look like it came from scum.
Rocky’s 1st post looked like possible scum setup post about creat/manatee slot, which is made more incriminating due to the vote on my slot.
-threw suspicion and/or pushed for their lynches – on sash (green flip), manatee/creat, frank/a50, naomi, krazy (green flip) – so it’s even likelier than FL & creat are masons, and that those 3 are town

3. prof’s ISO: could see him with 455 post to sheep crim his buddy. 600 post about urgently dealing with hood to end up voting krazy – incriminating. More sheeping posts though I think he sheeps town here, in 824-825. 935 & 946 showed him casing and voting the other neighbor……so, then the neighbors are both town!??

Ircher & Nauci, you guys are kiling me.
This G A I M is messed U P.

Continuing on, 1032 is another suspect vote move . Yes self vote is terribly scummy unless you’re a vengeful town, but that opportunistic vote on LE in that post, oh man.

2172 he changed from voting crimson to voting sash (green flip). 2316, 2455, 2456 showed his progression to voting to rogers, which further made me think rogers is less likely to be scum.

Man oh man. Prof your S C U M game is vastly different than your town game from shad’s game. You also are into bussing, it seems – having voted crim on d1 and nm on d2. Not much different than pp’s scum play of being into bussing.

But look at that – 3244 – unvoted his partner nm, just ilke he did for crimson on d1. 3271 about helping FL lynch me – now that’s telling.

4. So, along with my other posts and considering what others have said:

VOTE: P R O F I I
Final 2 members should be nm & prof. Why him over nm – because of the idea that we may need to keep him in case he really Is town gunsmith, which I still don’t believe .

5.
D O E S anyone do D E A D people analysis and re-ISO people on d2 A N Y M O R E ??? Man.
This G A I M is M E S S E D U P.

Ok.
I think I’ve said all I am able to say and find .

[Performer]

oh look , I even C O L O U R C O D E D it for readability

[Performer]

I think your vote history on Profii is a bit shallow.

what does this even mean

[Performer]

To that I say, you're right on saud being unusual , different than me in terms of voting. Still town here.

[Performer]

Well damn. The game ended. We lost, prof & akarin.

[Performer]

I found it dreadful that people were not wanting to lynch nm for the longest time... blah

[Performer]

So it probably won't fill, but would anyone want to hydra with me and join this game? viewtopic.php?p=10484812#p10484812

That sounds like fun one but I would not have the time for it. Otherwise I would want to hydra with you

[Performer]

I was giving Creature a bunch of town points for going along with the mason claim

Now it’s over. Please explain why town would go along with a fake mason claim?

Flavor was honorary scum. On another site I play they assign least valuable town and most valuable mafia. Flavor would win both

I agree with both of these
Flavor you're a cool guy but man! So frustrating haha

[Performer]

I thought there would be no way scum could win with all 3 lurking out day 1 lol

But flavor leaf was like hold my beer fam

Flavor was like

"scum team dont worry
I'll be scum #4"

[Performer]

I think we should all get a site award for suffering the indignity of being exposed to the term "wagonomics"

The Wagonomy class begins at noon.

Thanks Nauci!

I never fail to be amused by the humor players bring to this site

[Performer]

I cant wait for Nauci's judging summary of the game

I look forward to it too lol

I won this game but mr rogers killed my will to live

Rogers was definitely something else.

I was very disappointed that after all his engagement in the game, he suddenly vanished. He could at least tell us why he had to go.

[Performer]

I don't know if he was an alt account. I wouldn't know.

[Performer]

Yeah I got warned for 4055

i wish i had time to join the pg 15 of micro queue, jingle & maria's games...

jester nightless
and
blue and red mafia goons that're informed of each other

damnit...

[Performer]

wait a minute, i just got an idea, will pm nm about it lol...

[Performer]

NM always says the C word

yeah ikr

not sure why he was reported for that here