mini normal 2042: labeled pictures meme mafia (game over)

[Irrelephant11]

schadd you always have such good flavor

VOTE: teacher

Hey buddy, been awhile

[Irrelephant11]

teacher did you know we joined on the same day??
so fun

[Irrelephant11]

daycop inno on shoshin, no more votes there please and thanks
VOTE: the worst

[Irrelephant11]

UNVOTE:
shoot this is micro, not mini
sorry for L-1
or wait is shoshin l-1 idk

I think Carmen is town because it reminds me of skitter interacting with you for the first time
I think Keyser is town because I liked his gif and I want him to be town

[Irrelephant11]

the worst knows this isn't my scum game because he's seen it before. That's why his vote was terrible and why I'm voting him for the rest of this game unless he really towns it up.

Irrelaphant also knows my town/scum play. He's correctly townreading me, because this is far from my scum game.

key's notion that I'm scum because I'm playing the same way I played as town is... patently absurd? Like, just take a second to think about it - "Shoshin is playing like in her town games, so let me vote her to test if she keeps playing like in her town games." Don't like Key at all this game. But I'll give it time, because I think I misread him last game and can't remember when he looks like as town/scum and he's sort of awkward in general.

It’s me fearing you could have a good scum game.
What’s wrong with that Shoshin? It’s early D1. There isn’t much to chew on right now. Let me muse.

FTR: I’d prefer for other people to shout ‘this is town Shoshin’ and not you.

THIS IS TOWN SHOSHIN

Alright, the worst is locktown. Moving on.

VOTE: teacher

lame I was just starting to scumread the worst (which means he's town, everyone)
what flipped it for you

Keyser/the worst/shoshin/xwing locktown this is gonna be a bad game for scum

[Irrelephant11]

I'm not the worst but I have an answer

[Irrelephant11]

yes, she is always this defensive

[Irrelephant11]

sick burn

[Irrelephant11]

she basically just shot us all down... basically calling my reason to scum read her as idiotic, and that you and the worst ‘should know’ this is town her. How does that open serious dialogue? It just closes doors.

now whose recent town early game does this sound like..?

[Irrelephant11]

yeah but the way you shut down scumreads of you as town reads as defensive
Honestly it's a compliment because it's extremely effective

Keyser: I pick LAMIST!

[Irrelephant11]

that take is extremely cold unless you're counting *you* in the bottom "half"

eh maybe Carmen can be scum

[Irrelephant11]

does Carmen have votes? VOTE CARMEN
I'm paranoid of accidental wagons in this tiny setup but my vote is there

pedit: oh he did say "over-defensive" I missed the "over". that slightly changes how I read it tbh

[Irrelephant11]

let me think, teach is on me, sheep on krazy, keyser on teach, shoshin on teach
okay great

vote Carmen

[Irrelephant11]

everything in 151
"hot take"

[Irrelephant11]

Keyser/the worst/shoshin/xwing locktown this is gonna be a bad game for scum

and then you said hot take: the bottom half the of playerlist is town

Carmen
Shoshin
FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP
xwing
the worst

so you replaced keyser with fluffy (and me with you, though neither of us really need to say that so I don't really count it as being said) and then voted me, a player with extremely similar reads to you

pedit: I'm not avoiding the fluf, I think he's Carmen's partner

[Irrelephant11]

POSTS LIKE 2042

you can see the future

[Irrelephant11]

okay, let's step back then
why'd you vote me

[Irrelephant11]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

trying to evaluate if I deserve "devoid of town" at this point
in a game w/o Nauci shouting about how good I am as scum I kinda feel like you should be townreading me here? idk @tw, @keyser, @shoshin am I wrong

dumb I felt like I had solved the game there for a minute
eh I still kinda feel that way actually

[Irrelephant11]

For anyone wondering (specifically xwing but maybe others) I have played with all but Carmen and the newly-quiet-sheep (who happen to be my two strongest scumreads, which idk I guess I should probably re-eval for that reason :/)
Multiple games, in some cases
So you're not getting "yes hello I am elephant nice to meetchu" this game you're getting

scum-Irrelephant doesn't dive in to save scum-Shoshin's bacon here.

wk tho?

I mean idc if you decide I'm whiteknighting Shoshin or just have a hard meta read I just want you to know Shoshin is 98% locktown
We have played in ~4 games together now, including being partners in friemds mafia and I know a lot about how she thinks, how she earlygames, and how hard it is for her to play well as scum. I will not consider scum!shoshin until lylo

After a long (30 seconds) of consideration I have decided to use normal case.

Praises be
I was worried about the eventuality where I'd want to lynch you but also not read your posts at all

[FTR for clarity: I haven't played a micro in a while so was ignorant to the fact how quickly a player can reach L-1 (only 5 votes for hammer?). I'm usually more cautious regard putting a player to L-1, especially on the first few pages of D1! My vote was a genuine/serious pressure vote though (neither RVS or a quick lynch attempt) following up to paranoia I had for Shoshin.]

^
Nauci recommended that I explain all my behaviour that people find scummy - instead of me just saying

'it's NAI, both town and scum could put a player to L-1 by accident'

.

Yes okay I'm at like 83% town!Keyser rn

Carmen suspicions:
- bit too easy to t/read FLUFFYWS
- Not quite gauging/seeing their reason to s/read Irrelephant11 (my paranoia on Irrelephant11 actually is only based on Carmen/teacher posts - confirm bias, yes I know. Irrellephant in isolation has just been more quiet/less open than usual).
- Carmen’s ‘bottom half of playerlist are all town’ post smells like possible TMI. I’d preferred to see Carmen explain why player a, b and c are town for reasons x, y and z.

Basically, Carmen is coming to reads I don’t think are natural for a townie. I think those are enough reasons for me to be scared.

I don't remember you complaining when I gave my locktown list?
But also I agree

I am here to playyyyy
Krazy isn't? what the heck man

[Irrelephant11]

Oh wait this is technically my first game with Krazy
but uh
[redacted]

[Irrelephant11]

sad was hoping someone else would be here
I'll like
re-read and try to come to a conclusion on teacher soon I guess

[Irrelephant11]

did you have any questions for me?
I'll see if I have any questions for you

[Irrelephant11]

oh someone did ask me about my meta reads on you and shoshin I think?
You can read American Presidents, Watchmen Wanted, and ummm I guess nothing else at this time lol
but those two games are ones Keyser was in (shoshin was in the first of the two) and I just think I've got a good feel for Keyser
tbf Keyser's scumgame is better than Shoshin's so if I'm wrong on one it's Keyser

while I'm at it
I'm sheeping Shoshin on calling tw locktown
and xwing is playing like I'd expect given [redacted] reasons

[Irrelephant11]

Umm teacher is like halfway between stungun and skitter imo
does that answer your question?
lol it's been a bit so if you want a deeper answer I have to go look back at those games
He's definitely wordy

FLUFF: probably/probably/probably not, except maybe it's a tiny bit scummy because shoshin tends to frustrate scum

xwing: yes so far (though I admit none of her reads are stuck in my head so I should double check this), and yes

[Irrelephant11]

I commented on your quietness? I'm confused

[Irrelephant11]

oh hahahahahaha I meant you're no longer shouting
that was unclear I now see

[Irrelephant11]

sheep let's talk about Carmen and teacher
pretend one of them has to be scum and help me figure out which it is

[Irrelephant11]

sheep let's talk about Carmen and teacher
pretend one of them has to be scum and help me figure out which it is

Out of the two, I feel like teacher is the more likely scum? Carmen could go either way but teacher's 202 is very poor and nothing else seems to pull him back up.

202 is NAI I think (given I'm pretty sure he's joking)
209 is a reason to scumread him but 202 isn't I don't think

220 is interesting, does anything in there give you a ping either way?

Also are you townreading Carmen or just think teacher is scummier?

[Irrelephant11]

Ewo I have no idea what you're saying in 285 about teach

pedit: "heavy" like "how are your reads so strong" or heavy like "mm yes, deep, good"
or a third option

Yeah Keyser has a couple scum games and I remember using them to tunnel him in Presidents

[Irrelephant11]

Alright, Im through 219. Time for the effort-post catchup. The popin questions from the readthrough still stand.

Elephant -- I will be paranoid of him ever since he cakewalked our first game on site as scum (cf. 180-Nauci). But this game from him feels different than the one time we played together recently. I found it interesting that immediately after the naked and unannounced L-1, he claimed an inno on Sho (80). The Elephant I know tracks votes better than this. As a result, the catchup VC in 158 felt a bit forced as well. On the other hand, I liked 167's explanation for the take on Carmen, a slot I am being pinged by. Mostly, I want you to talk about 129. I found the reads on Shoshin and Keyser off at the time, but they may be based on Meta I dont know. Please to explain?

Pure null.

Me -- dirtbag.

Keyser -- I liked the early tone of GIFS and 19, though I cant explain why. I found the unannounced L-1 concerning, especially with the later request for no quicklynch, so am interested in

The Worst

explaining why it would be a townread. As for Keyser himself, I echo Xwing's question of what was giving you wolfy vibes about that slot as of 106? The naked vote on me seems a bit much of a reaction to what was admittedly a forced post, and potentially an early jump to an incipient wagon. While I liked later posts (145, 148, 171), on balance I think this slot is posting alot without providing much.

Null

scum within rand.

Krazy -- AFK getting no attention for it.

Carmen -- A similar read to Keyser. There is more I like here, such as the early interactions with Shoshin in 46 and 53. I am seeing some effort to sort, but am not sure I buy the sorting that results -- the townread on Sheep from asking for a Wiki, and the scumread on elephant both seem pretty empty. I certainly dont think you can call Elephant's ISO totally devoid of content, and am not sure I buy that Sheep actually wanted to metadive. pure

null

.

Shoshin --

my hardest slot

. By far the most content, but almost entirely self-focused. Others say that this type of defensiveness is consistent with meta. I had a scumread as of 107, but have questions about the wagon. The first RVS wagon is almost never the lynch for the day, because people have a slight psychological block about returning to where they first voted. I am confident (by both statistics and gut) that there was one scum on the wagon at the time. I am not as confident for what this means about Shoshin's own slot -- whether it was distancing or not. The most pro-town thing I am seeing so far is 166's case on FWS. Shoshin, can you provide analysis on other players completely ignoring their read on you for the time being?

Fluffy -- The caps are an eyesore, but Im liking the material there. The interchange in 177 and 178 in particular seems guided by a true effort to sort. Why did you call this (on page 3 just hours after opening) a slow early game (60)?

Xwing -- was troubled that an apparent newb knew enough to tell the mod in the confirmatory PM that they were VLA weekends, until I read that they had played three newbs already. This is my hardest townread from 94 and 124. I also think 186 is rich with potential associative tells if I need to reexamine this.

The Worst -- my second hardest townread. Why did you not mention elephant in 190? Can you speak more on your solve, because if it involves your Dayvig proposal it is off. I also want to know more about the Keyser town (from the L-1 and the naked vote on me).

Just want to point out the bolded. Basically this list is three townreads, one of which is weak, and a bunch of nulls, and I'm not a fan
otoh I like his questions to tw here and his callout of Krazy

[Irrelephant11]

sheep let's talk about Carmen and teacher
pretend one of them has to be scum and help me figure out which it is

Out of the two, I feel like teacher is the more likely scum? Carmen could go either way but teacher's 202 is very poor and nothing else seems to pull him back up.

tbh talk to me on why you feel like there's exactly 1 scum in here, I think the two have mad s/s equity

idk if you're asking me but the point is fair and I don't disagree

[Irrelephant11]

teacher's townread of xwing? (above)
maybe tw's townread of shoshin?

pedit: I also called out Krazy this page or last because I was noticing his absence so idk I guess I don't see scum taking the time but tbf he was doing a full playerlist readslist so maybe he just had to say something

[Irrelephant11]

wait no I know
the reason I townread teacher's call out of Krazy was that he was calling out "why is he getting no attention" which is a good question to ask as town because the answer might be "his partner doesn't care to call attention to his lurkiness" (assuming scum would jump on a lurker as easy mislynchbait if the lurker *isn't* scum (which relies on teacher being a townie asking the question in the first place but anyway yes I think his wording is a teeny bit towny))

wow that was a lot of words for a small thought

[Irrelephant11]

but the fact that most of his reads were null flavored is scum scented imo

[Irrelephant11]

TOWN
{tw} - obvscum guilty child
{xwing} - ~92% town, low chance of being wrong
{shoshin} - ~ 88%ish town
{keyser} - 80%ish town

"Who wore it better? tw or Irrelephant?"
but yes this is correct and I am glad we got here

[Irrelephant11]

um ok
as long as it ends with me being above you in your reads I accept

[Irrelephant11]

If you think shoshin is scum you have to think tw and I are also scum
does anyone think that?
if not please unvote shoshin I've never misread her
use your vote somewhere helpful like on krazy or carmen

[Irrelephant11]

hi I'm here
Today is actually a hell day at work, so I will not be very profound or do any of the in depth reading & thinking that I want to do
Who do you think I'm partners with? I'll vote 'em

[Irrelephant11]

I'm not feeling town Irrelephant yet, so we'll see about that.

ooh fun this is new for us
do one of your angle-shooty townread tests where no one can tell exactly how you're getting to the read, I'm sure I will pass

pedit: lol
Well great let's lynch Carmen then

[Irrelephant11]

I'm lightly townreading teacher and Krazy's most recent posts
teacher because his self meta is accurate and I like his defense of his readslist (much better than "well how can you expect me to have non-nulls so early???" that I see scum or mehtown say after an early readslist)
Krazy because gut feel but obvs this is very very light
This is the part where I'd move my vote to my strongest scumread but it's still Carmen
Still don't townread the SHEEP, either

Feeling paranoid about the worst which probably should lead me to townread him more given my history of reading him
I find shoshin's non-townread on xwing interesting and also would like to hear more there, I feel like xwing is very towny (though not as towny as Shoshin or Keyser atm)

[Irrelephant11]

SHEEP are you at all willing to lynch the worst?

[Irrelephant11]

v/la prod dodge
My activity isn’t AI I have had the WORST week at work (which is when I usually play mafia) and it’s affected my activity sitewide

I see Carmen thinks I’m scum because I tried to take down a town bloc? Except I’m the one who made the town bloc in the first place, just without her or sheep (and with Keyser). Like if I’m scum she at least has to admit that that literally can’t be my scum tactic here because I made the bloc first (at least accuse me of making a false town bloc, but even then I didn’t put myself in it soooo)
Reads as misreppy and scummy IMO but if I’m wrong I’m sure one of Keyser/Shoshin/xwing will let me know

bye till Monday

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: FWS

VOTE: FWS
L-1

no one....?

okay I am regretting reconsidering and I'm pretty sure that hammer is close to a scumclaim so
\( ö )/

I kinda think Carmen handled her scumminess as a TPR fairly poorly by not claiming at l-1 and being resolved via nk .... and then flaking.... but there were ongoing conversations particularly and especially around Flooflez' alignment when he impulsively hammered her. I like personally strongly agreed that the urge to hammer was strong yday but we had such fucking good rhythm going that actually following through on the lolhammer is tantamount to openly admitting you don't intend to solve alignments

Just reiterating two widely townread players (Shoshin and I) were assessing a slot with diverse reads (Floofz). The slot in question then lolhammered a townie

this reds 90% of the time and if this is the other 10% I want to talk more post-game and also like. tbh I don't really feel like solving around that possibility

Agreed with 95% of this

wrt Keyser being the nk what jumps to mind right away
1) I don't THINK he townread Irrelephant11
2) he didn't like Floofz and liked my just out of rvs scumcase on him
3) he didn't interact with my reassessment of Floofz that I recall
4) he was disputed and not obvtown
5) he was off wagon

kinda falling flat on my face here but eh
we lynch Floofz 100% of the time because even if he's town I don't want that kinda WIFOM in 3v2

1) He had paranoia about me/teacher but other than that..?
2) Agreed
3) Agreed
4) Wait really? I was pretty sure he was mostly agreed upon as town.
5) Good point

soulread 2 scum on wagon bee tee dubz

This is not what I was feeling but it's interesting you say so...
Oh wait jk I just went back to check the wagon and I misremembered you as on-wagon and teacher as off-wagon. Yeah this might be true, actually. (as an aside, despite wanting to townread teacher last game day, I remember him having this super-hard WIM game-solve mode for both games I played that he was town in, and I super don't see that here)

if my soul is correct we nuke teacher after floofz
if my soul is incorrect Shoshin is probably even MORE ridiculously good than I thought she was, and also I am very bad at reading newbies

I don't wanna townread Relly rn but he's kinda floating out of my scumdar. unsure if concerning or I'm finally being good at mafia

We need to sort Krazy first I think
Still never shoshin
Not sure what the last part means. Or rather, I know that you're saying you don't scumread me, but why is it the case that you want to scumread me but don't?

just one question before I finally descend into true paranoia madness: is Krazy scum who thought I would be mislynchable because the last time he saw me in action I didn't give a fuck abt mafia and did he expect to resolve his paranoiablock via ascending his read on Shoshin (who is objectively obviously town) and descending his read on me?

free hugs to anyone who can parse this for me bc paranoia is real

This is an interesting theory... Why did he townread me again? I just accepted it because it's accurate but I can't remember any real reasons...

Hello
VOTE: Shoshin

No. Vote someone else or get lynched.

[Irrelephant11]

*sigh*
I wish I had unvoted on my v/la prodge vote

teacher, xwing, krazy, I need you three to sort each other. Thx <3

[Irrelephant11]

everyone come play
also if you're town, be angry at sheep (this way I will know you are town)

[Irrelephant11]

UNVOTE:
shoot this is micro, not mini
sorry for L-1
or wait is shoshin l-1 idk

I think Carmen is town because it reminds me of skitter interacting with you for the first time
I think Keyser is town because I liked his gif and I want him to be town

let me think, teach is on me, sheep on krazy, keyser on teach, shoshin on teach
okay great

vote Carmen

love the sheep, interested in the development on the read of Carmen. I want to say I townlean just because this type of 180 is something I see waaaaaay more often from town

sheep let's talk about Carmen and teacher
pretend one of them has to be scum and help me figure out which it is

townlean

these were Krazy's reasons to townlean me and they're fine I guess
I want my instinct that there's always a scum between Carmen/Sheep to be right
Can it just be teacher/Sheep? Let's examine

[Irrelephant11]

I did a double ISO of Sheep and teach

Spoiler:

What's scummy about lying?

VOTE: SHOSHIN

STOP TRYING TO START THE GAME

Still more scummy than not

SHOSHIN DO YOU STILL SCUMREAD ME

I feel like I've seen tilted town and scum have this reaction to Shoshin in equal measure
The caps here being a gimmick, I'm leaning towards the latter

THE WORST IS SHOSHIN ALWAYS OVER-DEFENSIVE

Yes, Irrelephant11?

OK

UNVOTING

This progression was like slightly towny, but boy does sheep flip flop on this later

SHOSHIN ITS REALLY HARD TO TOWNREAD YOU WHEN YOU MAKE POSTS LIKE 2042

tinfoil theory: Sheep *is* actually metadiving, but his results are mostly in the scum thread (trying to figure out who to mislynch), and this was a slip of that.
Note to self: Potentially it's possible to check this by seeing if Shoshin has any interesting 2042's - if I'm ever realllll bored

Why is this town indicative why does it fit into town!Flufflez' trajectory and mindset?

It's town indicative because town usually look through people's games to try to figure them out more than scum do.

THEY DO?

hm, reinforces the tinfoil theory but eh

MY JOKE BROKE. KEYSER SÖZE HAS GLORIOUS GAMESOLVING. PROACTIVELY GOING OUT OF HIS WAY TO INTERACT WITH PEOPLE.

Strong townread on Keyser is +rand scum-indicative based on Keyser's death (too hard to turn around on)
otoh if scum are the only ones sharing scumreads of Keyser that's a pretty good kill too

I will consider policying FWS if nothing strikes me on the readthrough. Please use regular caps? Pretty please? I hear there is free bread on offer.

Interesting that this gets through to sheep (though not immediately)
Tinfoil theory #2: teacher pressured sheep to drop the caps in the scum thread so he wouldn't have to go through with this/reference it ever again

also down to policy flooflez with extreme prejudice

Why was mine a wolfy pop in but this wasnt?

Still a bad post, interesting that it's kinda a chainsaw for sheep

Alright, Im through 219. Time for the effort-post catchup. The popin questions from the readthrough still stand.

Elephant -- I will be paranoid of him ever since he cakewalked our first game on site as scum (cf. 180-Nauci). But this game from him feels different than the one time we played together recently. I found it interesting that immediately after the naked and unannounced L-1, he claimed an inno on Sho (80). The Elephant I know tracks votes better than this. As a result, the catchup VC in 158 felt a bit forced as well. On the other hand, I liked 167's explanation for the take on Carmen, a slot I am being pinged by. Mostly, I want you to talk about 129. I found the reads on Shoshin and Keyser off at the time, but they may be based on Meta I dont know. Please to explain? Pure null.

Me -- dirtbag.

Keyser -- I liked the early tone of GIFS and 19, though I cant explain why. I found the unannounced L-1 concerning, especially with the later request for no quicklynch, so am interested in

The Worst

explaining why it would be a townread. As for Keyser himself, I echo Xwing's question of what was giving you wolfy vibes about that slot as of 106? The naked vote on me seems a bit much of a reaction to what was admittedly a forced post, and potentially an early jump to an incipient wagon. While I liked later posts (145, 148, 171), on balance I think this slot is posting alot without providing much. Null scum within rand.

Krazy -- AFK getting no attention for it.

Carmen -- A similar read to Keyser. There is more I like here, such as the early interactions with Shoshin in 46 and 53. I am seeing some effort to sort, but am not sure I buy the sorting that results -- the townread on Sheep from asking for a Wiki, and the scumread on elephant both seem pretty empty. I certainly dont think you can call Elephant's ISO totally devoid of content, and am not sure I buy that Sheep actually wanted to metadive. pure null.

Shoshin -- my hardest slot. By far the most content, but almost entirely self-focused. Others say that this type of defensiveness is consistent with meta. I had a scumread as of 107, but have questions about the wagon. The first RVS wagon is almost never the lynch for the day, because people have a slight psychological block about returning to where they first voted. I am confident (by both statistics and gut) that there was one scum on the wagon at the time. I am not as confident for what this means about Shoshin's own slot -- whether it was distancing or not. The most pro-town thing I am seeing so far is 166's case on FWS. Shoshin, can you provide analysis on other players completely ignoring their read on you for the time being?

Fluffy -- The caps are an eyesore, but Im liking the material there. The interchange in 177 and 178 in particular seems guided by a true effort to sort. Why did you call this (on page 3 just hours after opening) a slow early game (60)?

Xwing -- was troubled that an apparent newb knew enough to tell the mod in the confirmatory PM that they were VLA weekends, until I read that they had played three newbs already. This is my hardest townread from 94 and 124. I also think 186 is rich with potential associative tells if I need to reexamine this.

The Worst -- my second hardest townread. Why did you not mention elephant in 190? Can you speak more on your solve, because if it involves your Dayvig proposal it is off. I also want to know more about the Keyser town (from the L-1 and the naked vote on me).

teacher has referenced this post as *so obviously* stating that either me or Carmen is scum. I definitely don't read those words anywhere in here? Am I missing something?
Also read of fluffy sheep is definitely not anti-partner in any way. "liking the material"/"guided by a true effort to sort"/weak question is super easy svs material. If anything this is maybe weak svs read for someone I thought had a more impressive scum game (teacher)? But that's too generous a read I feel, especially in a micro where most players would go for easy interactions with scum partners as long as they think they can get a couple mislynches (bussing not being as helpful as in, say, a large).

If forced to vote, it would be Keyser, but Id rather not park when I might not be back.

Strange

... trying to connect me as your partner eh?

Why not vote here? I'm your strongest scum read... I am in no danger of being hammered... don't you want to see me under pressure?


Catching up now.

Not confident and n returning for 48 and have a stronger joint sr (Ie at least 1 is wolf) on CarmenElephant than on iso you.

Still don't see any explanation anywhere for this MUST HAVE ONE SCUM read of the two of us. Reads as setting up for post-Carmen-mislynch, tbh.

After a long (30 seconds) of consideration I have decided to use normal case.

Refer to tinfoil theory #2 (this happened shortly after a teacher post, meaning teacher was probably online to discuss this. Man if my tinfoil theories are correct this game.......)

sheep let's talk about Carmen and teacher
pretend one of them has to be scum and help me figure out which it is

Out of the two, I feel like teacher is the more likely scum? Carmen could go either way but teacher's 202 is very poor and nothing else seems to pull him back up.

Kinda over-scumreads teacher, imo. I think this is slightly partner indicative.

Screw this I'm voting Shoshin

Vote: Shoshin

I've made this post as scum. I've never made it as town
I think the reason why is "screw this" sorta pre-emptively answers the "wow that was unexpected why did you do that?" with "I just felt like it in the moment, it's super natural of me"
whereas if town's reads change suddenly because of paranoia they usually reference their paranoia or just don't explain (so as to get a reaction out of the person they think might be scum)

Im now the AFK along with Krazy, and you have my apologies because I hate that normally. I slept for 12 hours when I intended to play last night. Im judging a debate tourney today but will get in action between rounds and definitely tonight as Im rested.

My reads have gotten stronger on town TW. A little weaker on Xwing simply from coasting when they are vla weekends and didnt seem to do much after securing a townread on Thur and Fri, but I still think the contentful posts ring townie. FWS has moved way down for me, Key has moved way up. Im at the point where my pool is Krazy, Elephant, Carmen, FWS.

Im still conflicted on Carmen and Elephant. Im locked that there is a scum there, but I want to double ISO for more confidence on which one. To be clear, my pure nulls on both were thinking one must be scum but not having strong pings on which one. Im also hesistant on reading Elephant because I have a genuine like for him as a person - I like how the game isnt personal for him. In my three games with him, Ive also misread him three times, so have little confidence on my ability to read his playstyle.

In addition to that double ISO, Im going to do a game search for Krazy, because I think reactions to that AFK may be informative. I want that slot to play the weekend like they said they would, and the two Friday posts seem like posting just to post without content or taking stances.

"sorry for afk, here's my excuse"/"if one of these two townies flips town, lynch the other" both come from scum more than town imo
Still don't know why teacher thinks there has to be a scum between me and Carmen, or how he's "locked" on that (no second thoughts, after being afk and not having time to sort properly?)
Also his little thing about how he likes me and that makes it harder to read me kinda sounds like hedging his scumread so he can both push me and be allowed to be wrong
Also strong townread on Keyser similarly is +rand scum indicative because Keyser death (honestly it reads like "well we've decided to kill Keyser tonight")
with the same caveat from before that this is only true dependent on others' reads of Keyser I have yet to double check

carmen thoughts.

Sold. These were quite convincing.

Really, these were convincing??? I didn't think so

I'm about as serious as I could be at this point, Invis. Voting on policy for behaviors outside this game seems like the most pro-scum thing so far, plus I wanted to start building a wagon since everyone was splitting the votes.

Another thing that Shosh did in this game that she did in another game.

Ok.
I finished reading/skimming Shosh's iso in the games the worst provided and that makes me feel better.
UNVOTE:

Back to townreading shoshin because meta (as he should)

Who cares? Just lynch her. She's already refused to claim while at L-1...

Shoshin pls

This, given his later hammer on Carmen, is pretty terrible

I’m pretty into a Carmen sheep team atm.

Hmmm I can't decide if scum teacher would say this about scum sheep

VOTE: Carmen

L-1.

Also willing to go to FWS. Feels like the game is lagging a bit, but likely thats just the weekend absences. Im planning to be around tonight FWIW.

This one is slightly more anti-partner-y than the last, though if sheep had already said in scumtalk he would hammer Carmen at his next opportunity it's meaningless

Floofz current read on Shoshin?

Still scum.

"still"..? The unvote earlier made it seem like shoshin was a new townread. This read seems faked all around.

Actually VOTE: carmen

Crap, as we all know.

Hello
VOTE: Shoshin

Crappier, given strong meta reasons why shoshin is town. Does D1 really read like scum!shoshin picking out Carmen and leading town to a mislynch?

Sorry for jumping the gun yesterday.

No you're not.

[Irrelephant11]

Results: Tinfoil theories abound, and if they're all correct, I've solved the game 200%!
If they're all incorrect, it's still pretty reasonable to call these two partners, though there's isn't much that's totally damning, either.

[Irrelephant11]

Quick Kray thoughts:

- consistent focus/infatuation with meta analysis (appears their strength, so obviously reliance on it is expected, instead of hiding behind it).
- In no rush to ‘do their thing’ (didn’t feel pressured/self conscious enough to produce content early for the sake of it.)
- Demonstrates no qualms putting two strong/vocal/active players in null (for paranoia/meta reasons)
- I like Kray’s references to how each player sees themselves versus how Kray sees them/the situation
- Even though there is a lot of null in their reads tiers, Kray is not afraid to include frequent reads as definitive as ‘I see this way more often from town’ / ‘town for me’. These observations make me feel better. More of these please (makes you less hedgy, and more direct).

Enough to move Kray out of null.

I think I'll sheep Keyser to town-Krazy
xwing is my new most important sort
Accidental wolf-sider or taking advantage of a split town? that is the question.
also why is xwing using so many ".." this game?
Find out when we return to

Irrelephant talking to himself!

[Irrelephant11]

Oh so this turned out to be very easy to find, actually

2037 is a fine post, the worst. Reality shouldn't be scumreading me and her reasons for doing so are bullshit.

Let's kill sheep now because my tinfoil theory #1 is less tinfoil now and more "probably accurate theory"

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: If anyone needs a reminder for why the above is scum-indicative for SHEEP

I will now proceed to do a deep and informative meta delve of all the players in the game

I'm done and it turns out the worst and Shoshin are the scumteam

FREAKING OUT OVER GETTING VOTED IS STILL PRETTY SCUMMY

I WILL NOT STOP
ALSO
SHOSHIN PLEASE KEEP YOUR WIKI PAGE UP TO DATE

THE WORST IS SHOSHIN ALWAYS OVER-DEFENSIVE

SHOSHIN ITS REALLY HARD TO TOWNREAD YOU WHEN YOU MAKE POSTS LIKE 2042

I MEAN 149

[pretends he's unfamiliar with shoshin's meta so he can scumread her] [accidentally lets slip that he had already read the parts of shoshin's meta that show why nothing she's done here is scummy]

[Irrelephant11]

man I'm so sad I have to go now you're all gonna super enjoy how I solved the game for you above

[Irrelephant11]

:O
Just noticed -

H

A

P

P

Y

S

C

U

M

D

A

Y

E

W

O

!!
*quack*

[Irrelephant11]

Why is no one amazed at my proof that sheep is scum
He’s not even denying it

[Irrelephant11]

Hi Shoshin, tell me more

[Irrelephant11]

I feel like teacher's insistence that "tw or elephant is scum because they're pushing for me to go after sheep flips red, which he will do" is poor play but aside from the TMI not all that scum-indicative either
Is there a different reason you want to lynch teacher first

[Irrelephant11]

Am I right in thinking that sheep has basically just agreed that he's scum?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean you definitely might be right, tbh
It's not like I'm townreading teacher, I just feel like Sheep is very very very likely scum and it would be weird to keep him around intentionally?

[Irrelephant11]

Oh wait this is *game* 2042?
hmmmmmm that does undo some of the excitement of catching Sheep about post 2042
lame I was really very excited about it
but also it's not really like he really denied it?

I'm no longer at 98% sheep I scum, I'm at like 83%

[Irrelephant11]

shoshin - definitely town
tw - town
krazy, xwing - slightly above null
teacher - scumlean
sheep - definitely scum, right?

[Irrelephant11]

sheep, krazy has given intent so in your next post you should claim

pedit: ?
I mean, I guess
UNVOTE:

pedit2: what's your question? I thought I'd caught scum accidentally revealing things from scum chat, in which case I was at 98%. But the lolhammer + lots of scumreads all game mean he's almost definitely scum anyway (compare 83% sure with random=33% sure). Do you disagree that sheep is scum?

[Irrelephant11]

Like if you think sheep will self-hammer what part of my posts bothers you

[Irrelephant11]

I put him at L-1

[Irrelephant11]

No? I explained already how sheep started the game with "I'm gonna metadive shoshin"
then he didn't share any results of that meta dive itt for a long time, and because he didn't know shoshin's meta he scumread her
but then I thought he accidentally slipped that he'd read Shoshin's post 2024 from another game, which would prove he *was* familiar with her meta and was faking the scumread on her
but then he might have said 2024 because it's the game number (still, though: what are the odds that shoshin wrote post 2024 in another game in response to something the worst said?)

[Irrelephant11]

So basically I think this post:

SHOSHIN ITS REALLY HARD TO TOWNREAD YOU WHEN YOU MAKE POSTS LIKE 2042

was actually about this post:

2037 is a fine post, the worst. Reality shouldn't be scumreading me and her reasons for doing so are bullshit.

[Irrelephant11]

I do still think that theory's likely because he delayed the results of his meta read on shoshin for a long time, when he clearly started the metadive at game start

I can't be totally sure I've figure out what happened though because it's also possible he accidentally just said 2024 because this is mini normal 2024

[Irrelephant11]

yeah I guess I'll let you catch up
Your theory that I'm "building an excuse" to not vote sheep when on the last page I was arguing sheep needed to be the first lynch over you might be indicative of you making crap up but it might also just be you haven't caught up so I'll just let you do that

[Irrelephant11]

what made you feel that way?

[Irrelephant11]

shoshin reaffirm my townread on the worst please

xwing is there any chance sheep is town?
Also,

Spoiler: ?

what's:
1. "tin-foil" - from irrel
2. "hardest slot" 220 - maybe teacher should answer this
3. "strawman" - havent been used here if iirc, but i read it often too

1 - "tinfoil" refers to a theory that's objectively unlikely, but that you're spending time thinking through anyway. Refers to conspiracy theorists who wear tinfoil hats
2 idk
3 - "strawman arguments" are when (for example) I make an argument, and you respond to a weaker version of my argument to make it look like I'm wrong without having to respond to the deeper content/meaning I originally made.

[Irrelephant11]

I do still think that theory's likely because he delayed the results of his meta read on shoshin for a long time, when he clearly started the metadive at game start

I can't be totally sure I've figure out what happened though because it's also possible he accidentally just said 2024 because this is mini normal 2024

I think it's really obvious that if he has done a meta dive it hasn't been a town mindset meta dive though

yes, super agree

that's my point actually in that post you're quoting

[Irrelephant11]

hahaha sure
but even moreso I want you to reaffirm my xwing townread, then sort Krazy for me

[Irrelephant11]

I forgot about the paranoia ramble
I'll interact with it, sure

[Irrelephant11]

just one question before I finally descend into true paranoia madness: is Krazy scum who thought I would be mislynchable because the last time he saw me in action I didn't give a fuck abt mafia and did he expect to resolve his paranoiablock via ascending his read on Shoshin (who is objectively obviously town) and descending his read on me?

free hugs to anyone who can parse this for me bc paranoia is real

maybe

Talk to me about Krazy?

he's unimpressive so far which is disappointing
Meh I think we both will just have to wait for him to play tbh

[Irrelephant11]

so I wish I had more to say but
a) I don't, which is why I asked you to sort him
b) g2g

[Irrelephant11]

I was joking when I said the metadive thing.

No you weren't

[Irrelephant11]

sheep, claim

[Irrelephant11]

Sheep, I am not scum. You? (Feel free to self vote after you say “yes”)

[Irrelephant11]

Hi I'm here and catching up

[Irrelephant11]

oh no
I believe that claim
and yet we're almost definitely still lynching it
and then probably losing our other town PR and then shoshin will get nk'd
dummmmbbbbbb

Someone convince me I don't need to believe the claim so I can be happy about this game again

[Irrelephant11]

wait tracker/neap? Maybe town wouldn't have two investigatives? eh

[Irrelephant11]

oh good point
why make the tracker ascetic if the neap knows their alignment anyway

[Irrelephant11]

thank you for making me feel better

[Irrelephant11]

great so shoshin is still town
teacher might be town
the worst might be town, but regardless I'm not lynching there till lylo
krazy might be town
xwing is who I still have to sort, huh. Still caught up on all those ".."s tbh

[Irrelephant11]

let's go with "shoshin is right" and say xwing is scum, game solved
it's worked before

[Irrelephant11]

yes, there was
and this is a schadd game
I hate everything

[Irrelephant11]

what are the odds sheep/invis game threw D1 and hammered the only slot he knew was modconfirmed town?

[Irrelephant11]

but informed that Carmen is town??
Scum already know that?

Informed that Carmen is ascetic or..?

[Irrelephant11]

I'm trying to imagine a world where sheep/invis/Alonzo is town and I think it means teacher is town, tw is less town, and shoshin dies tonight
yikes I am feeling v uneasy

[Irrelephant11]

alright Alonzo, there's about a 11% chance I'll fight to save you
Give me some reads

[Irrelephant11]

Alonzo is scum, Irrelephant.

fine
is his partner xwing or teacher or neither

[Irrelephant11]

we're down to a 1.1% chance I help you here
reads?

[Irrelephant11]

I don't really want to vote you, because I always always fall for last-second PR claims, but I think you're L-1 anyway if you really want out

[Irrelephant11]

my last post there was a reaction test for your slot
anyway bye hope you're scum

[Irrelephant11]

sorry, no, you just got hammered
I unvoted but after that Krazy voted, so you were at L-1 and teacher was planning to hammer

[Irrelephant11]

Im l-1 after TW's vote I think, someone unvoted so Scum! wouldn't quickhmmaer?

he can do math after all

nice try tho duck

no it was hammer

[Irrelephant11]

guys
guys
do none of you know what a hammer test is
guys

[Irrelephant11]

I understand that an immediate response is part of the test
but my "no it was hammer" was the second test
whatever suddenly you're all in the thread and the hammer test is over so go ahead and game solve I guess

oh shoot the pedit, that is the real hammer lolllllll

[Irrelephant11]

if this is town I will be the saddest 'phant

[Irrelephant11]

lol good point

[Irrelephant11]

Early game reminded me of our completed game

Shoshin is still probtown
No clue from there

[Irrelephant11]

On mobile so link coming soon

Townread me because of my reaction to Invis’ claim (keeping in mind the town fakeclaim D1 of friemds)

xwing/krazy was my first thought after tw-flip. Teacher felt town yesterday but not enough to be sure

[Irrelephant11]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77508

[Irrelephant11]

oh yeah shoshin is clear
neap gets "vanilla townie" or "not vanilla townie", so a mafia goon wouldn't get cleared here
weird that shoshin survived but I can't think of a mechanical way for her to be scum
that's nice

[Irrelephant11]

Sho could be the goon who reported as vanilla.

this misconception could be why shoshin survived if teacher is scum
probably scum with xwing in this case

[Irrelephant11]

I'm guessing xwing/teacher now... What do you think Irrel?

Can you talk more about the things that make xwing scummy? I kept putting off reading xwing's ISO because I thought we had confscum-Sheep anyway, so I thought it'd be easy to clear or not-clear him later.
If your points are strong, you're probably just right, and then sorting between krazy and teacher becomes the challenge, given I think they both have strong games

teacher acting like sheep was confscum when claiming informed townie seemed genuine, but mostly teacher has not felt very game-solvey this game which I super expect from town!teacher
Krazy has really only done meta dives? I remember thinking he was especially complimentary of my scum game and that its nice that fhpov I'm nearly a hard townread, but also that those comments felt pocket-y towards me

pedit: I mean, voting will happen at some point

[Irrelephant11]

no

[Irrelephant11]

teacher, why did you hammer Alonzo many hours before you said you would? I've seen town do worse than Sheep did, which is why I was considering helping him survive one more dayphase... Why not take the time to consider catching his partner, even if you were convinced he were scum?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I also thought he was scum, he played pro-scum, etc.
But sure, I'll link you to another game where town gamethrew d1 (I haven't seen this exact scenario play out before, that would be sort of insane)

Okay, I claim Town Vengeful 1-Shot Friendly Neighbor

this claim was fake, he was vt
scum got towncred for getting rid of the anti-town townie, town lost (for many other reasons, too, but anyway)

So Invis telling the truth about entirely wolfsiding d1 as town was on the table for me, genuinely

[Irrelephant11]

I find your answer fine, btw, teacher. I was hoping you'd say something scummier or townier, but it's fine.
shoshin can you explain the xwing read now

[Irrelephant11]

teacher talk to me about xwing, then
in the world we're both town, xwing is always scum, so if either of us can make a really strong xwing towncase, we can vote each other
if we both agree xwing is scum, well great, we've found scum

[Irrelephant11]

No, not necessarily, why?

also fine, I'll go first

[Irrelephant11]

yes, and probably we should

[Irrelephant11]

do we care to set up an order of claims

[Irrelephant11]

Vt

[Irrelephant11]

Waiting on xwing and krazy but I might just vote xwing soon tbh

[Irrelephant11]

My weekend v/la is more intense than usual and started Friday
Will heavily game solve Monday

[Irrelephant11]

catching up
can confirm it's not me/xwing if xwing posts soon
Interesting that xwing's scumminess was confirmed for me before I had a chance to really dive in, wonder if that could be a calculated choice on Krazy's part in the world where he's scum

The first to vote is usually town in lylo, but I don't know I saw enough progression from Krazy for him to make the jump? Could be scum noticing teacher is lynchable here. Or I just need to shut up and catch up now
Shoshin I really think you can townclear me. Idk how but do your thing, I always come out town

[Irrelephant11]

Or let me know if you need me to townclear myself, I'll try

[Irrelephant11]

catching up now

[Irrelephant11]

day 3 ends november 30th at 12:00 central US time; in (expired on 2018-11-30 12:00:00)

jk, overgamed, this gets a backseat for a bit

I think I want to vote teacher but obviously won't jump in before actually diving in
I saw teacher said something about how we're both scumreading each other for not game solving enough? and we're both busy. Seems like that would get him to re-evaluate the scumread on me, not tunnel further.

[Irrelephant11]

k let's do this
who's around, where should I start

[Irrelephant11]

Vote count 1.1

teacher (2):

Shoshin

,

Keyser Söze

Carmen

(2): Krazy, Irrelephant11
Irrelephant11 (2): teacher,

Carmen

Krazy (1):

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

(1):

the worst

not voting (1): xwing

Vote count 1.2

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

(3):

the worst

,

Shoshin

,

Keyser Söze

Carmen

(2): Krazy, Irrelephant11
Irrelephant11 (1):

Carmen

Shoshin

(1):

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

not voting (2): xwing, teacher

Vote count 1.3

Carmen

(4): Krazy, Irrelephant11,

Keyser Söze

,

Shoshin

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

(1):

the worst

Irrelephant11 (1):

Carmen

Shoshin

(1):

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

not voting (2): xwing, teacher

Vote count 1.4

Carmen

(3): Krazy, Irrelephant11,

Shoshin

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

(1):

the worst

Irrelephant11 (1):

Carmen

not voting (4): xwing, teacher,

Keyser Söze

,

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

Vote count 1.5

Carmen

(4): Krazy, Irrelephant11,

Shoshin

, teacher

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

(1):

the worst

Irrelephant11 (1):

Carmen

not voting (3): xwing,

Keyser Söze

,

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

Carmen

(5): Krazy, Irrelephant11,

Shoshin

, teacher,

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

(1):

the worst

Irrelephant11 (1):

Carmen

not voting (2): xwing,

Keyser Söze

Vote count 2.1

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

(2):

the worst

,

Shoshin

Shoshin

(1):

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

not voting (4): teacher, Krazy, xwing, Irrelephant11

Vote count 2.2

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

(2):

the worst

,

Shoshin

Shoshin

(1):

FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

not voting (4): teacher, Krazy, xwing, Irrelephant11

d2 final vote count

alonzo

(4):

the worst

,

Shoshin

, Krazy, teacher
Krazy (1):

alonzo

not voting (4): xwing, Irrelephant11

[Irrelephant11]

Keyser/the worst/shoshin/xwing locktown this is gonna be a bad game for scum

I don't get how you got xwing as locktown here... it just doesn't make sense time at this point in the game...

I don't disagree, in retrospect. I just *felt* like xwing was town. We'd just finished our newbie game and worked together well and his entrance reminded me enough of that game to call it town. I think you might ujst be overfocusing on me having one bad read D1 (pretty good odds of that happening, tbh), especially since we're basically never the same alignment here
oh that's why you're worried, you think I literally posted four *accurate* "locktowns" D1.

let me think, teach is on me, sheep on krazy, keyser on teach, shoshin on teach
okay great

vote Carmen

Why not vote teach with me and Key?

I probably should have in hindsight. I played d1 messy and tbh am kinda tired of people taking my early townread & sheeping of you as somehow scum indicative so while I wanted to resist your lynch because I could tell you were town I also didn't feel like playing the same game as always
also I scumread Carmen at the time I think?

[Irrelephant11]

trying to decide if shoshin surviving last night is indicative of:
- Krazy saying he's paranoid about shoshin
- teacher's read of shoshin last game day, which I actually don't remember offhand

[Irrelephant11]

is there a world where teacher/krazy crossvote in lylo as scumteam
I think it maybe does exist given their outside-the-box thinking in general
Not that I have such a strong townread on xwing that it has to be true

shoshin can you explain the krazy townread? idk how you're reading me but like as a friend please don't ignore my question just because I have scum equity, sorting Krazy basically solves the game fmpov and I would like to know what's in your head
If it would interrupt whatever you're trying to do rn though regarding unsorted slots I can wait a bit, though

[Irrelephant11]

Between teacher and Krazy, who is scum xwing?

I'd choose teacher.. Why is irrel not on the list though? I find the early play scummier.. Though his d2 is better.. Im not sure if I believe the genuineness of his gripe about early play too..

trying to decide if shoshin surviving last night is indicative of:
- Krazy saying he's paranoid about shoshin
- teacher's read of shoshin last game day, which I actually don't remember offhand

What do you think of my theory about informed scum? Do you think it is far fetched?

One of teacher/krazy has to be scum here (or both), given the vote.

Your theory about informed scum? Didn't we already flip the person who claimed informed?

My conclusion on the vca is that it's slightly more likely teacher is scum than krazy, but there's not a ton there, really. Sheep really screwed over vca in a lot of ways

[Irrelephant11]

I only found one, but I agree it's completely different than this
I dunno does anyone want hardworking "re-read every post" Irrelephant? I kinda just want to vote teacher based on a consistent scumfeel, his consistent shade-throwing on my slot, and the fact that shoshin is sure anyway

[Irrelephant11]

Is xwing's game here just "act like the clueless newbie"?
Actually I just answered my own question, the answer is almost certainly yes
xwing's play was honestly much stronger in the newbie queue, when the players were equally frustratingly difficult to read/understand as this playerlist would be if you didn't know anyone here

it's basically always teacher/xwing
voting teacher soon unless shoshin objects

[Irrelephant11]

I'm one shot doctor.. Last night I used my heal to protect Sho.. Reason is fmpov neapolitan got her cleared.. So she would be obvious NK..

reads like "I chose not to nightkill Shoshin, and there needs to be an explanation for why she survived"
[in the world where teacher/xwing don't understand neapolitan clear]

[Irrelephant11]

I dont get how more people arent talking/analyzing Xwings claim. For me, it PLUS THE CRUMB clears him.

Unless I think you/Krazy are both scum (which I don't), xwing is confscum fmpov. fypov Krazy is confscum, so you don't care what he thinks about the claim (he either knows it's fake or he knows it's real, doesn't need to analyze it). Shoshin keeps a lot of her thoughts to herself.

Soooo who are you appealing to here, to believe xwing's claim? This reads like you don't think me & Krazy are actually scum, because if you did, you wouldn't need to appeal to us to townread xwing
I thought of this as I was falling asleep last night and am nearly ready to vote teacher now I think?
A couple things I need to check first:
-teacher's read on shoshin last game phase
-xwing/Krazy ISO to see if they look like a team (I already know that teacher/xwing do)
-teacher's play around the Sheep lynch, which at the time I thought was the towniest play he'd had up to that point

[Irrelephant11]

Oh but also I'll setup spec for the fun of it before placing a vote, too

[Irrelephant11]

lol this was thanksgiving week, you don't get to read me off *not doing something yet*
the whole thread went dead, not just me

Also scum!me leaves conftown!shoshin alive for lylo 0/100 times
"wifom"
no. shoshin wins lylo. She will be voting scum this game day, and she would catch me out if I were scum here 99.9/100 times. That .1/100 isn't worth wifom

Pretend for a minute you think I'm town and xwing is scum, convince me Krazy is scum (which you should be doing for xwing if you really feel the two of you are the uninformed townies anyway)

[Irrelephant11]

shoshin wins lylo.

well, maybe I should say "shoshin plays lylo well"
She doesn't always win, because other players exist lol

[Irrelephant11]

To be clear, your case on Krazy is that he (1) misrepresented your meta and (2) "got caught in a naked AtE" (not sure what this part is referring to)

Obviously he's confscum fypov but you'll need to case him better than that to get my serious consideration

[Irrelephant11]

???
I know you know I can simultaneously scumread you and treat you as town who I want to talk to, to get closer to solving the game
In the world where you and Krazy are both scum, I don't have to figure that out this game day (though it would be nice). So that's still in the back of my mind, but it's the least likely scenario and I don't have any strong reasons to townread xwing besides maybe the claim and the fact I liked his early play (literally can't remember anything of note since then, which is probably more indicative of my poor memory than anything else, but might be indicative of scum playing UTR). Regardless, it's simply easier to ignore xwing and sort the scum between you/Krazy.

And anyway, if I treat xwing as town, you becomes scum, so there's no world where you need to advocate to me to townread xwing. It's a pointless endeavor and one that reads like you keep forgetting one of me/xwing has to be scum

That said, Shoshin is being pretty quiet about why she's reading Krazy as town and you as scum, and is probably intentionally doing that so she can read me and xwing better, so I am putting in the work now to sort you and Krazy. I could do that by re-reading in the ways I've said, or I could do that by interacting with you. I think the latter would be more fruitful right now, since you have to believe Krazy is scum since you're in the 1v1, and I can always go back and re-read later

You have not presented a strong case. Try again if you want to win.

[Irrelephant11]

But if you’re just asking me to case Krazy a third time, read the first two.

oh my bad, I skimmed so quickly to get to this page I literally missed it
I'll reread now I guess

Also yes I wish I had voted xwing earlier, based on shoshin's read, forcing everyone to sort me/xwing, instead of placing me in the position of sorting you two

[Irrelephant11]

Yes, sometimes you sheep as town
Krazy seems to make a living out of meta, though I honestly don't know if he's that good at it
Probably? Haven't re-read still

This is not enough for a lynch. (also lynching all liars would lead to lynching shoshin a lot more, which is a bad idea)
tbh I think I'm just putting off voting teacher because I want to feel like I have permission from shoshin before I do? Not sure what that says about me but I figured I'd explain why I haven't gone much deeper here yet

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin towns him, and she's right that this looks nothing like the only scumgame of his I found
I liked Keyser's earlygame towncase of Krazy (that he feels no pressure to perform)
His paranoia of Shoshin would be a reason for a teacher/xwing team that forgot how neap worked to leave shoshin alive

[Irrelephant11]

alright well I guess I'll stop interacting with you, if you're town you're too confident I'm scum and we maybe lose anyway?
Literally not sure what some of the above post means
I'll re-read now

[Irrelephant11]

day 1: Carmen was a Town Ascetic 1-shot Tracker
night 1: Keyser Söze was a Vanilla Townie!
day 2: Alonzo was a Town Informed Neapolitan!
night 2: the worst was a Vanilla Townie!

Alonzo-slot was informed that Carmen was ascetic 1-shot tracker, and was a *full* neap? huh. I mean it's pretty undeniable that in case of town loss, invis is 80%+ to blame. Micros sure are hard when there's a game thrower
ascetic 1-shot tracker
informed Neapolitan, informed of tracker's entire role
vt x5

mafia... rolecop? roleblocker? 1-shot roleblocker?
mafia goon

ascetic 1-shot tracker
informed Neapolitan, informed of tracker's entire role
1-shot doctor
vt x4

mafia roleblocker
mafia goon

Spoiler: jokes, but also, it's possible

ascetic 1-shot tracker
informed Neapolitan, informed of tracker's entire role
vt x5

mafia 1-shot doctor
mafia goon

I don't see why it has to be the second, but I'll admit the first one does seem a tiny bit more likely

F me, Krazy/teacher/me all had strong townreads on xwing early game. This is the first time I'm really considering a teacher/krazy team

I'm learning right now that xwing crumbed. wow I *really* checked out after invis' flip.

[Irrelephant11]

I don't see why it has to be the second, but I'll admit the first one does seem a tiny bit more likely

flip these around

[Irrelephant11]

so here's a thought:
I don't think a Krazy/xwing team comes up with a claim so strong it convinces teacher xwing *must* be town, without much second guessing at all. teacher is sure xwing is telling the truth either because (1) teacher came up with the claim or (2) it's a Krazy/teacher scumteam and teacher is TMI-ing the truth of the claim
Having ruled out that scumteam,
VOTE: teacher
I also think it's teacher/xwing, if I had to pick. xwing "heal" crumb came after Sheep conftowned shoshin but before he flipped (i.e. why would town!xwing believe sheep enough to decide shoshin was the right person to save? Every townie thought sheep/alonzo was confscum)

@shoshin, sorry if I've made this hard for you to sort based on not-very-strong play from me, but I really just kinda hated playing this game after sheep ruined any chance of a mechanical solve. lmk if you're still struggling to sort me.

[Irrelephant11]

Irrel and krazy observations are not far from truth.. I would say I'm really not so engaged this game.. Im on vacay and phone posting so I don't have time to reread the whole game multiple times (like I actually do when I have time) so I'm mostly going on recent posts..
But early game I played as I intended to..
Happy thanksgiving all!

just came across this - happy belated thanksgiving to you!

[Irrelephant11]

I said town vote first at lylo?
I mean I believe it - I read a theory article on the wiki about it - but I don't remember saying it

Anyway,
- what lie?
- I *am* following conftown (she has said you are scum multiple times)
- the idea that scum was afraid of a doctor does not preclude you/xwing being the scumteam. Actually, the fact I didn't even think of scum being afraid of a doctor until you brought it up is a reason to townread me, probably. And it would explain xwing crumbing doctor at the point she did, too: you two were already planning to claim doctor if we got to lylo (or you decided a 1v1 in mylo was worth it), and it was subtle enough you could just not bring it up if someone else claimed doctor.

pedit: yes, I did indeed think everyone was aware of the only vote placed this game phase without me saying anything

[Irrelephant11]

Good game, scum. I basically never scumread either of you until I had to.
I lay at least half of this loss at Invis' feet (though also, maybe next time I really will try to save the gamethrowing PR claim when my gut tells me to) - micros are too small to recover from game throwing, imo.

teacher, I nearly lockscum'd you when you said "Elephant and I are scumreading each other for not being as game-solve-y as usual, and that's a reason he's scum" (when in reality it should have been a reason you re-evaluated your scumread of me). But tbf, Invis' flip sucked the life out of me this game, so idk if you could have played well enough for me to townread you regardless.

flavor + setup + modding experience were top notch, schadd!

[Irrelephant11]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lating_EVs
thanks to tw in the dead thread for finding this for me! Yes, this is the one
I guess I should have thought this through further, though - in 5-way, & especially with one clear, I'm not sure this "rule" applies.

[Irrelephant11]

in your experience town has voted first roughly randomly

this isn't what he concluded I don't think? Town have indeed placed the first vote in most of the lylos I've been in
Though teacher taking the trouble to do that analysis probably should have tipped me off to his alignment

@shoshin was there a reason you went quiet while I was trying to solve lylo? I don't know that it would have changed the outcome, just curious if it was a play or you were busy or something else