Mini Normal 2040: Day 4
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DVa
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DVa Mafia Scum
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In post 14, ofrhz wrote:Zarya is the best tank. Fight me
Last time I tried doing a triple tank comp and scum ended up killing me night 1 0.o
I think Zarya is a solid tank, but this game I think we should go QUADRUPLE TANK
Would you like to join my comp ofrhz?
If you're Zarya, we just need two more tanks and then a support. Thenwe got this.-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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In post 23, Elsa Jay wrote:Clearly what you need is a Widowmaker main. I can also do Mei.
You're in, but you have to choose. With Dva and Zarya as two of our four tanks, do you go Widow or Mei?-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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In post 37, tictac wrote:@DVa I don't think either of ya individually scummy, but I'm drawing an associative here in blinky neon.
Ya can say ya understand why, so I don't hafta explain?
Well he did move off my RVS wagon onto a wagon on a player that doesn't exist so I'll agree with you that his play this game so far is curious, not sure how you get an associative tell from Sashaddin doing things that don't make sense tho so you're welcome to explain that-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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I'm less interested in the associative, more thinking about his scum equity in and of itself.
Basically just thinking of BBmolla's argument from our newbie game that "chummy = scummy"
Not that Sashaddin shouldn't have a sense of humor, just that I feel like he'stryingto be funny in RVS. Kinda reminds me of how alien was before you replaced him in that last game
Probably not enough for right now. Anyone pinging you atm?-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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I'm aware that asking mods to clarify rules can be taken as lamist, but in this case it was directly pertinent to the accusations both against me and Tictac so not getting an answer here was not an option.
Would you rather I have not asked and we all sit here debating whether or not scum have daychat or not? Because that's not an interesting conversation.-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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uhh, it was directly pertinent to Tictac's accusation against meIn post 70, BrightEyedFish wrote:It just feels off to me.
If you were town, a scum day chat shouldn't have any affect on how you scum hunt and your response feels like you are trying to remove yourself from being tied to a scum pt.
and actually, yeah, it kinda is important to catching scum. the entire game is predicated on thinking through associations between players, and if they can communicate out of thread, that often matters to how they interact.
but sure whatever works for you man-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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More townie
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Elsa Jay
ofrhz
Clemency
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tictac
BrightEyedFish
Auro
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aslightrain
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Sashaddin
Not_Mafia
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less townie
Aren't solid reads, obviously there's not much to go on here, and I need rain to post to get any read. If Not_Mafia is just going to lolcat through this entire dayphase I'm A-ok with him getting strung up. I see no reason to think he will get easier to sort over time.
While Sasha is bothering me tonally, I'd really like to see some more pressure on Not_mafia. I do believe he is actually capable of playing the game and we shouldn't just wash our hands of him because he chooses not to most of the time.-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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In terms of overall enjoyment of the game, does anyone actually want to be dealing with this on day 2?-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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So, granted that you don't know Auro or Clemency, what is your first impression of them? The question isn't "do you know people" it's "who is scum"? And so far the only person you have called scum is me, for observing that your obnoxious 'reading' post was obnoxious.In post 130, Almost50 wrote:Auro: I don't know them.
ofrhz: Town unless scum (you know what I mean )
Almost50: That's me, and anyone who votes me gets the death penalty (plus will have to treat me to a dinner at a restaurant of my choice afterwards)
BrightEyedFish: He can be Town, unless he posts in the wrong thread.
Clemency: I don't know them.
DVa: Although I don't know them, they gave me a look I didn't like when I first walked in. KILL THIS!
Not_Mafia: Obviously TOWN by virtue of being Not_Mafia. I mena, the mod says this is Not_Mafia, so who am I to argue. Right?
Elsa Jay: I always confuse the two. They have the same hair cut Let's just say this is the survivor, although I know in a mini-normal there are no survivors. Just let him end game though.
Sashaddin: Let's talk about this, but not yet about that. Ya feel? Town for now.
tictac: I prefer KitKat, but I'll give him a pass on the basis he's refreshing.
You also seem to be suggesting a policy "not lynch" on not_mafia for entirely joke reasons. Why should we read Not_Mafia as town in this game based on what he is actually doing in this game?-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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If not_mafia is scum, his strategy is to lolcat into people no longer caring about the thread. So quickly moving past his nonsense I see as pro-town, yes.In post 133, Elsa Jay wrote:I literally claim to be evil and get townread for it.-
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In post 136, Sashaddin wrote:Is this an alt-account ?
Yes. Can we move on?-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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In Boundaries of Reality, everyone who accepted being a part of my overwatch comp was town. Is that a reliable metric? Probably not. But it bought him some points in my book for now lol.In post 153, ofrhz wrote:
He's null to me. But you have him near the top of your list - is there another reason besides him not pinging you?In post 151, DVa wrote:Clemency isn't pinging me so far. Do you see anything scummy in his posts?-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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Is it truly a policy lynch though?
What is the policy?
I am simply looking at his play *this game* and asking if I see any town. I don't.
I am not saying we should policy lynch him, I'm saying we should analyze his play this game objectively, and not have a "policy of don't lynch the troll just because he's a troll." That helps no one.
So I ask--by what metric is this a policy lynch, and not simply *the best possible lynch on the least town player*?-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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Conversely, if a player is *actively cultivating a meta of anti-town behavior* then we should lynch that player for the overall health and enjoyability of the site.
If Not_Mafia is actively trolling games as town simply to protect his ability to be ignored as scum then he should be lynched in every game until he starts actually playing the game.
We should not reward previous gamethrowing by choosing to ignore anti-town behavior in the game we're playing *right now*
That you are *defending him on meta* makes me want to lynch him here even more, because you are creating a culture on the site where lurking is rewarded. Is it fun to play mafia by deciding how to sort someone who spends every other game gamethrowing? We might as well go to EpicMafia then so we can get the full experience.
So I say again -- don't policy lynch him. But don't *excuse his play based on an anti-town meta*
Just objectively look at his play this game and see whether he is playing in the interests of the town, or whether he is relying on an anti-town meta to deflect suspicion-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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Yeah except there's no reason to think thatIn post 169, Almost50 wrote:@DVa: Continue this crusade on N_M and I promise you I'd get you lynched before him. For one thing; I can read N_M with some degree of precision. For another; if he is Town he has a very good eye for scum. He can be an asset and should never be lynched on D1 unless >I< (or someone else who knows how to read him) say so. I've seen him as one shot Cop who got us a guilty on D2. I've seen him as a Vig who took out 2/3 scums. I've seen him as a VT tunneling a scum slot all game until we finally lynched them.
A) you aren't scum with him or that
b) you aren't scum white knighting him
So far your reads list upon entering the game is "I don't know this person" or "I know this person." You seem to be more interested in pretending that you can use meta exclusively to read players in lieu of actually commenting on the substance of people's posts *in this game*.
Your policy non-lynch on Not_Mafia is far more toxic for the site than any policy lynch.
Moreover, your policy non-lynch on Not_Mafia is based on your personal ability to read him. Okay, if we went with that, and he was scum, say he kills you tonight and then there is no one left in the game that can so confidently read him? Why would we bet our chances of correctly lynching scum today on your ability to sort Not_Mafia tomorrow when there's no guarantee you will even be alive? And that's all presuming you're even town, which so far I see no reason to believe. And that's ALSO presuming that when you say you can sort him *you're not overstating your actual abilities,* which to be frank, I *highly suspect you are* because sorting a player who exclusively lolcats with 100% accuracy is basically impossible.
If I get off Not_Mafia, you would be the next pick.
And, more generally speaking, I do not join games to exclusively think about what people did last game or two games ago or three games ago. I join games to sort people *in this game* based on things they do *in this game* so you having a policy of globally white knighting Not_Mafia makes me want to also consider lynching you for that. You should neither refrain from lynching or lynch a player exclusively because of who they are or your personal relationship with them.-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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No, I think passive lurkers should be asked to replace out if they are unable to keep out of the game. Usually they replace out anyway, or start participating when they get a better grip on the game. I personally see *hardlurking* as null, unless the hardlurk emerged as a result of pressure and isn't the default of the player. I do not think Not_Mafia is hardlurking here. He is lolcatting to emphasize that he is maintaining an anti-town meta, which frankly is closer to *active lurking* and is in fact scummy.In post 170, Auro wrote:1. Do you think passive lurkers (impossible to read) should be policy lynched?
2. What's more important here - Overall enjoyability of the game, or maximizing town's winning chances?-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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I mean, I would nightkill you as vigilante, so there is that.
So right now, in a game of 10 players, you're saying that *exclusively because of meta* no one should even consider lynching you *who has given basically no reads for things that have happened in this game* and Not_Mafia *someone who is exclusively lolcatting*
THIS is precisely why you do not give into this "oh no we can't policy lynch" bullshit because you are creating categorical exclusions that cut off 20% of the playerbase from suspicion.
You accuse me of tryharding but WHERE ARE YOUR READS? You are exclusively defending Not_Mafia for BULLSHIT REASONS and it is making me want to replace out because frankly it's not going to be fun if I have to put up with both you and not_mafia
I don't have the energy or desire to put up with this actually. I didn't join this game to policy lynch two back to back people. I like 7/9 of the players in this game but A50 + Not_Mafia apparently = a game not worth playing. If Not_mafia isn't going to try and you're going to white knight him like a tryhard scrub then this game is dead to me
Take your metagame bromance and get fucked
You can BACK THE FUCK DOWN AND GIVE A REAL READ OF NOT_MAFIA or I am replacing out in my next post-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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yeah except this is categorically untrueIn post 174, Auro wrote:The policy non-lynch on Not_Mafia isn't based on Almost50's personal ability to read him, rather that it's worse to lynch Not_Mafia compared to a lurker because town!Not_Mafia surviving (to a point where he begins to actually play) is very beneficial to town.
Not_Mafia's reads as town are mediocre at best and Almost50's ability to read Not_Mafia is also basically a complete lie
I know he thinks its true, but I have seen him lose games first hand over it
I don't want to say more and am probably going to just replaceout because I don't want to out my main
But basically everything A50 is saying both about A) Not_Mafia and b) His ability to read Not_Mafia is *complete horseshit*-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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OK, well then *ASK HIM TO SCUMHUNT*
In that game *you linked* the *only* correct read he gave was on Carcalilly. *every other read that was not based on a night_action was WRONG*
You can like his choice of *night actions* but that does not mean his reads are good. Nailing one scum out of three and being on every other mislynch wagon does not make him a reliable player or anywhere near above average.-
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Sure, but stop *hard defending someone who isn't trying* when *you are not evaluating this game* but are instead *focusing on another game where you saw him make a good night action choice*In post 178, Almost50 wrote:I'm not scum, so I won't pretend to have figured it all out in 10 pages and less than 72 hours from the start (let alone less than SIX HOURS from me joining the game).
ALSO
IN THAT GAME YOU LINKED
He was WAY more obviously town
By post 80 he had *shown at least a small modicum of thought* and *reacted to people in the game*
He is doing neither of those things here.
So don't look at that game and say "he's not totally garbage as town" look at that game and ask *based on the thought and arguments he made that game, is there a reason to think he's town here*-
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In post 74, Not_Mafia wrote:
Good morning VOTE: impoisonIn post 71, implosion wrote:good morning friends and alliesThis is lolcatting with a modicum of thought.
I'm not saying he's SUCH TOWN MUCH WOW
But he is giving 0% effort this game whereas in Diffusion of Power he was giving at least 5%-
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I am getting angry because A50's argument is making it incredibly difficult to maintain the integrity of my anonymity and he happened to point at the specific game I would point to to argue that *not_mafia's reads are generally crap* as evidence that he should be kept alive.
As someone who has been scum with scum!not_mafia, who has been scum against a town!not_mafia, and as someone who has been town against a scum!not_mafia, I am saying *lynching Not_Mafia this dayphase is a GREAT FUCKING IDEA*
If he has not towned up by now, he will never town up. He will never be easier to read. He will never give us associative tells. If he is town, he will never be nightkilled which means that if we mislynch town today, we bring the total number of active players playing the game seriously significantly down and increase his relative voting power significantly. When not_mafia is town and plays well, he starts showing interest in the game on DAY ONE. If he is not obviously town by the end of day one, he should be lynched.
He will *do things that actively make the town less interested in playing the game* and will help foster a sense of *apathy and disregard for rereading and evaluating the thread*. He will do these things *particularly as scum* and he is doing those things in this game.
I say that as someone who has extensive experience with Not_mafia and who, as town, would be disgusted to lose to the tactics that Not_mafia employs as scum.-
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This is a lie. He was on almost every wrong wagon on that game relatively early and never did his signature troll quickhammer.In post 185, Almost50 wrote:He was on every lynch because N_M likes to be on lynch wagons.-
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I'm not saying you're a scumteam certainly. I'm saying your defense of Not_mafia is complete horseshit and that dealing with your defense of him for meta reasons that I know personally to be complete rubbish is frustrating and makes me want to not play this game, or play with you, or play with him.In post 185, Almost50 wrote:if you claim to know me/N_M that well then you should be well aware I don't ever vote him anyway, so you trying to make it look like a scum team is the biggest load of horseshit one could come up with.
I don't want to go hunting for every game you two have ever played together. I want you to PUT YOUR META ASIDE FOR A DAMN MINUTE and just look at what he's doing this game and give a read based on THAT and not based on your CATEGORICAL REFUSAL TO SORT HIM ON DAY ONE.
SO YOU SAY YOU CAN READ HIM. Then read him. Read him and stand by that. Don't refuse to read him but say that we shouldn't lynch him because YOU PERSONALLY LIKE HIM OUT OF GAME. that is PURE METAGAMING and is TOTALLY AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME-
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To be honest I almost never regret replacing out of a game when I have reached this level of anger. The *only* reason I am even still here is because I was really looking forward to playing with you, Auro, and Tictac again. But most of the time when I get this angry, even if I'm right, the win isn't worth the frustration.In post 189, ofrhz wrote:DVa, close this game for 24 hours and come back later. Please don’t replace out.
But yeah I probably need to stop here for a while one way or the other.-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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he says on post 188In post 188, Almost50 wrote:Did he post 80 posts yet?
I didn't say ISO 80
I said *post 80*
as in out of *everyone in the game posting, by post 80, early on day one, he was already reacting to players in a meaningful (for him) manner*
which he is not doing here-
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Maybe in carca being a mechanical night result, Penguin and Gamma both being town, and Spoogh being 100% caught scum in a cross claim with gamma?In post 192, Almost50 wrote:Penguin on D1, the first vote on Carac on D2, the 2nd vote on Gamma on D3, and the hammer vote on Spoogh on D4/ So, where is the lie here?
100% of his votes based on *reads* are wrong, 100% of his votes based on *night actions* are correct, because he has scum confirmed by the mod-
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While I see your PoV here, I don't think that going from a wagon that he failed to keep A50 on board for, and instead joining the leading wagon that is a counter-wagon to himself, is particularly towny. If N_M is scum, he knows A50 will commit to any counter-wagon other than himself due to the explicitly stated metagame reasons.In post 237, ofrhz wrote:....I feel like this is slightly towny for N_M tbh
I will say that not continuing to tunnel me does show 1% thought, but he's far from the 5% thought I would expect from town!N_M
Anyway basically going to actively avoid this thread for today and probably tomorrow if I can help it. I have too much other irl shit to do to continue to be pissed at this thread all day and I need more content from several people anyway.-
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I agree that: {Brighteyedfish, Clemency, sashaddin} is the gamesolving sort.
I wouldn't go so far as to say there's likely two scum there, but I do think going forward with the game it would be beneficial if everyone could state their opinion of those three slots.
>Sashaddin seems tonally different than he is in his other games
>BEF is always lurky but this doesn't make him easy to sort or a strong townlean
>I personally like Clemency's posts but I don't think I could towncase him if scum pushed his mislynch based on the content he's produced so far
I'm not particularly excited about the tictac wagon and I'm hoping the replacement will be able to town up quickly so we can get the game back on track.-
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She's town until further notice and I'm kinda assuming she dies to nightkill before 5way so I'm less concerned there rn.In post 283, Elsa Jay wrote:Or is he just Null to you?-
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so why are you currently voting tictac slot?In post 281, Not_Mafia wrote:I would-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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In post 299, Clemency wrote:it just looked like dva got pissed out of the blue idgi?
I play this game to have fun. Metagaming makes it not fun. When it becomes a common practice to form blocks of different 'clicks' of players, and it becomes more important who you're 'friends' with out of game, rather than your alignment in the game, that is the time to leave a community altogether. I joined this site *because I left* a community full of metagamers.
To be clear, "metagaming" is not the same as giving a "meta" read, they both have meta in the word but they are very different practices. Metagaming is letting your personal feelings for a player dictate how you treat them in the game to the exclusion of reasons or evidence. It is categorical bias, and it is exactly what A50 was doing here for N_M when he replaced in, as he explicitly said.
I have basically zero patience for metagaming is what this comes down to, so yes, I got very angry very quickly.
I didn't write this post to bring it up again or give a sign I want to talk about it, I will do my best to continue ignoring A50 until I have cooled on how I feel about his entry into this game.
Anyway, I am not actively opposed to BEF as a compromise wagon and I think the discussion of Clemency is useful so I'm going to go back to not talking about the A50 stuff.-
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re: clem -- 93 was basically fine, not locktown great, but he's not overwhelmingly pinging me. I don't particularly want to lynch him atm
I could be talked into Sasha, but he wasn't one of N_M's scumreads, which would make him not a compromise wagon but a normal lynch. You're welcome to case him to the extent a case is possible with an iso of "loool" and "let's sheep N_M on a fake wagon without asking him why he's not voting someone who isn't in the game"
re: BEF, I want to hear ofrhz's thoughts here-
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his alignment in this game, which you just answered.In post 314, ofrhz wrote:His post or his slot in general-
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townie
ofrhz / Elsa Jay
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tictac -- I don't think she comes at me out of the gate like this as scum tbh, and the paranoia about a sasha/dva scumteam based on his rvs vote for me seemed like the type of tinfoil she does as scum. But my read here is only medium confidence and I'll be watching the replacement.
Clemency -- fine for now although I think pressure for content is good
Auro -- know he's pretty competent scum; if anything I would have expected him to start powerscumming more by now if he was scum so his 'huh, how do I figure this out' disposition here seems townie for the moment. but still on my radar
--- all below this point are viable lynches for me ---
BrightEyedFish -- I basically just don't see anything that strikes me as a towntell, but I'm open to ofhrz's position that he's offered above average thought here. not sure I'm convinced but I'll think about it.
Sashaddin -- tonally off from his other town games and disengaged
Not_Mafia -- not saying more on this today
Almost50 -- not saying more on this today
scummy-
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I don't need to wait for post-gameIn post 325, Sashaddin wrote:@DVa: You've mentioned twice that I'm "tonally" off from before, If you want to tell me why (after this game) I would appreciate it, because I can't see what I'm doing differently here.
This is you in 2038:
In post 26, Sashaddin wrote:
I like golf, a lot.In post 22, Invisibility wrote:hmm i do like the golfball in your avatar
It's been 21 years and I still hate Sephiroth for killing Aerith (Aeris)
UNVOTE: Doughboy
VOTE: Sephiroththis is you here:
In post 21, Sashaddin wrote:
OOOOOh! A wagon! *Stomp*In post 20, tictac wrote:Let's fastwagon the chewy bastard!
VOTE: TreborIn post 31, Sashaddin wrote:
I didn't know either, I just like jumping on a wagon!In post 29, DrDolittle wrote:Mod notes: Not sure who Trebor is, so these votes are ignored.
like you're tonally different, I think that's objectively true. It doesn't make you scum, but in 2038 you seem to be taking rvs seriously while sorting, whereas here you seem to be just kinda having fun and joking around. Maybe you're just loosening up or feeling better about your play, but it means you don't read the same way you do as you do in your completed town.In post 62, Sashaddin wrote:
Not in my time zone!In post 61, Auro wrote:Have you played with people from different time-zones before?
Don't you think this accusation is *way* tooearlyto make
Ba-doom-boom-tish!-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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while 130 is a readlist with jokes, I do not agree that the reads list as a whole was a joke or that the specific reads of auro and clemency were jokes. A50 is fully capable of analyzing players he's unfamiliar with so having him so exclusively rely on meta here was jarring, even if I know meta is pretty important for his process. doesn't make him scum but I was trying to get him into the game and move him out of overrelying on meta if he is town which should make him easier to sort either wayIn post 354, Carmen wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that he's joking and I think it takes a specific kind of mindset to not notice that. Starting to scumread DVa here.-
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I didn't think his reads of ofhrz or BEF were jokes so I guess I didn't think the whole thing was a joke, I thought it was just first impressions based on his skim of RVS tbh, you could be right tho, I might have totally missed the point of it just being "know this person or not" and having no relation to reads despite him calling several people town-
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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DVa Mafia Scum
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