Mini-Normal 2070 is done

[Vorkuta]

Hi again to RC, Chennis, and Dave, and hey to the rest of you.

Hi guys, I'm a miller

No.
VOTE: RuiRui

[Vorkuta]

So RuiRui played it correctly by the manual if I got it right.

Or... there is no miller this game.
And scum!RuiRui played it by the manual.

[Vorkuta]

Yes, even though we're not even out of RVS, I flat out refuse to buy the miller claim.
My vast

one whole game's worth of

experience leads me to conclude that:
Probability of there being a miller being in the setup (AND Ruirui being the miller and coming clean) << Probability of scum claiming miller

[Vorkuta]

wouldn't fakeclaiming miller put scum into a dead man walking position for no reason?

WIFOM

I have seen scum do it

I recognize you from somewhere... /s

(we lost a town game where this very thing happened)

I propose we carry on as normal and if we're pushed to that brink THEN we with it.

Fair- Rui's going to have to defend the claim quite well though.

In that case
VOTE: Axehole

(L-2)

[Vorkuta]

I'll sheep RC, partially because if he's scum I can't win, and partially because I didn't like his miller questions.

VOTE: Inferno

[Vorkuta]

They felt more for show with "LAMIST" and playing the "oh gee I don't know what the most towniest thing to do with a miller in the game" card.

[Vorkuta]

I'm explaining- that's the vibe and impression I felt as you were asking those questions.
Your approach did not feel sincere and gamesolvey to me.

[Vorkuta]

So I blinked and this happened.
Let me re-read a few things and I'll decide whether or not there's something really fishy going on here.

[Vorkuta]

{Dave, RC}
{Egix, Axe, Skellen}
{milkcarton, chennisden, Ezra, RuiRui}
{Tchill, Inferno, .jpeg}

VOTE: JP Gantt or just JP

[Vorkuta]

Willing to sheep RC until the game ends.

Chennis and Milkcarton better say a few more things.
I will be reviewing the replacements' openings to confirm them.

[Vorkuta]

I will, once I try and get people to believe in my JP wagon.

Upon rereading his ISO, I find myself shaking my head at every other one of his comments, WHICH IS BAD because he's also mostly engaging Tchill and Inferno.
Like I don't understand how I like my scumreads' answers/defense more than JP's posts/questions.

[Vorkuta]

Are you going to do anything except follow RC this game vorkuta?

Depends on the day.

Like my objective this game

is to win

is to not fuck up in the same way I did previously.
So, if I lose, but I fuck up in a brand new way, I'd chalk it off to the learning process and not be entirely butthurt about it.

But god-forbid a gambit I fell for in the past works on me this game... then....

[Vorkuta]

You don't care to work with others you just need their votes

He can have mine.

Players like that can't be trusted

Investigatives please

Of course it doesn't matter because you're not gonna be wrong THIS time because you're just that good.

So.... what's the problem again?

[Vorkuta]

Tchill. I can't buy any of your reasoning because it comes from an extremely emotional standpoint.
I refuse to process your AtEs- they go in one ear and out the other.

[Vorkuta]

what would be the reason?

Do I look like someone with enough experience/creativity to properly answer that question?
I'll try though. Off the top of my head:
-This bussing thing that people like to do.
-Distancing, so that when/if either of the wagons diffuse, you can safely keep on ignoring them while trying to push mislynches
-Gambitting (I actually don't know what the word means, but it seems like a good answer)

[Vorkuta]

I'm fairly certain theres at least 1 scum between jp, rc, axe, and tchill.

3 scum in a 12 person game = 1/4.
Tbh, you could've pulled random names out of a hat and said as much.
Like there's an easier way to say "these are my 4 scum reads", so I don't know what you're getting at here.

Vork, what have they said scummy, someone whose tring them, what do you find good about them?

It's not so much as "scummy", it's that I just that if you remove other people and put the interactions between JP and Tchill or JP and inferno into a "double ISO", his arguments really come off as bad and unconvincing and I'm rooting for the other guy and not the Joint Photographic Expert Group.

who could I have interacted with?

*looks at your ISO*
I mean... you quote people's arguments when you reply to them... so am I missing the question here?

[Vorkuta]

Vorkuta why are you voting jpg when you said you would sheep me

Ayt I'll continue my beef with .gif while supporting your wagon.
VOTE:

PeterDinklage

Tchill

[Vorkuta]

Who were around when I was posting?

I mean what's your point?
I don't see how the potential lack of real-time interaction that you're alluding to takes away from my case.

I'm assuming you have a follow up or you are waiting for me to discover something along the lines of "oh JP and inferno were never online at the same time"?

[Vorkuta]

It's factual. Look at this site's town game. All comes from shit like that.

Look- I was similarly frustrated with RC a game ago, and it was worse there because RC was in the middle of a full blown ego battle and I proposed a policy lynch on him (which I deeply regret pls forgive me)
But now we're getting along kind of fine.

So what I'm saying is- having been in the position you're in right now, I don't buy it.

[Vorkuta]

You are better than I initially thought.

You get the courtesy of a reread of your posts in context for this flattery

[Vorkuta]

were scum.

Can confirm, and hence my

somewhat

unwavering faith and loyalty to your crusade.

Anyway, I'll cut to the chase.

I concede.
I blame the fact that I wasn't there for the interactions, but had to quickly scroll through them when I got online.

[Vorkuta]

Humble
Please post more undertale.

Like Tchill- your defense needs to be MORE than "RC pls stop"

[Vorkuta]

Btw, if axe AND tchill flip scum, lynch rc immediately. It's like rc is actually telling them what to do

Bear with me- there's a miller claim. If true, this implies an investigative (if not, then all aboard the Rui wagon).
RC probably sees/knows this, and is fine with continuing this behavior, which implies he's fine with an investigative.
Like.... scum!RC can't overstep that much...

[Vorkuta]

They won't publish their scumPT just to spite you.

[Vorkuta]

I can't even... The cop claim, the replacement not replacement... just...

Who's Tyrion?

Tchill's picture is of Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones

[Vorkuta]

I thought you were supposed to upload your Facebook pic there.

Giff autograph please peter dinklage

jk I don't watch GoT

give rc a pick

axe

no.
Is there a world where axe who claimed cop is not the NK today?

[Vorkuta]

chennisden

Is this meta, or just because you can't find a 3rd?
I'd vote the guy for activity/PL on lurkers.

[Vorkuta]

Inferno390 is Mafia

Inferno is scum, let's lynch him

(.png spoiler)

Spoiler:

So now that RC's backed off, he's replaced back in, and you guys bring the heat?

Not gonna lie, this feels like kicking someone who's down.

[Vorkuta]

hi welcome to the freest town win of your life

How do I claim my benefits?

Is the tchill wagon still on, or are we doing axe first?

[Vorkuta]

Can you be telling the truth and be a scum!

role

cop?

I really really have trouble believing someone who self-voted and now claims that they are in important PR and are a huge asset to town.

[Vorkuta]

Maybe, just maybe... RC is wrong

My consciousness is slightly bugging me, so I'll say it.

I've seen RC say someone is "lockscum" (Creature in Mini2058) in a completely non-gambitty/serious way, and then after a while proceeded to 180 and conf!town the guy.
So I'd like to believe that RC can step it up and see that he's making a mistake this game as well and will fix it.

[Vorkuta]

Also, I wanna lynch Vorkuta.

Hi hi
why why?

[Vorkuta]

i was never 100% on creature scum

Ok, wow I'm scared of what a 100% RC scum push looks like.
You did tell him to "legitimately feel free to not post" and other choice quotes that game, so it felt quite aggressive and certain...

ANYWAY, I don't imagine a reality where scum!RC makes it.
I'd like to delay the cop!axe lynch so he can give us

fake

reads, and there has to be an investigative with a miller in play, so I'm not entirely (

100%

) convinced that he's bluffing.

[Vorkuta]

You're so bad. Vote themilkcartonkid

Can you cop him and get back to us tomorrow?

[Vorkuta]

I'm more trustworthy than you.

You lost the right to say that with your selfvote tbh.

[Vorkuta]

I think Vork open sheeping RC is bad.

Hi hi, why why?

I mean
-The guy made a huge impression on me previously
-If he's scum, then I can't win PERIOD, so the only way for me to play to my wincon is by assuming he's conf!town.
-An anti-RC wagon will not go through PERIOD, so it's pointless to try.
-Is it bad that deep down I might actually agree with some

most

of his points? Like "genuinely" and would do so even if they came from any other player?
-Give me OBJECTIVELY BETTER READS and gameplan than what RC has. I'll wait.

[Vorkuta]

Inferno390 is Mafia

Inferno is scum, let's lynch him

(.png spoiler)

Spoiler:

So now that RC's backed off, he's replaced back in, and you guys bring the heat?

Not gonna lie, this feels like kicking someone who's down.

*coughs*

[Vorkuta]

Also, I wanna lynch Vorkuta.

Hi hi
why why?

*coughs coughs*

[Vorkuta]

@mod

How did you steal pagetop?? I swear it was Jingle's

[Vorkuta]

Imma just copy and paste Inferno's sig right here as it seems appropriate

"Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL

[Vorkuta]

@mod How did you steal pagetop?? I swear it was Jingle's

[Vorkuta]

Firstly, none of this does not make what you are doing scummy behavior.

I'm enabling a strong townie work his magic and trying to assist in getting things done and helping the game progress. That doesn't feel quite not not scummy to me.

Which would make sense if, for example RC was wrong about Tchill/Axe. Which I don't think he is on Axe (Tchill I'm unsure)

-Sheeping someone who's correct is scummy! TIL. Also

-Is it bad that deep down I might actually agree with some most of his points? Like "genuinely" and would do so even if they came from any other player?

but it does make sense from a Scum!Vork perspective. Which looks bad for you, and is what I'm commenting on.

I invoke "2scum4scum".

[Vorkuta]

he admires

Delete this please.

Also stop pocketing me REEEEE

[Vorkuta]

i'm not spectacularly interested in scumhunting the last one right now, sorry.

scum!vork saved by RC's lack of interest /s

-Give me OBJECTIVELY BETTER READS and gameplan than what RC has. I'll wait.

[Vorkuta]

Because I crumbed it.

QUIIIICK question.

Do you have """other/additional""" crumbs in your ISO that you planted/would've used if things went another way?

[Vorkuta]

There, objectively better.

So from Jingle, I have "keep doing what you're doing".
Any other takers?

[Vorkuta]

How am I supposed to give objectively better reads than anyone else?

Idk but Jingle managed to do it.

Also the "objectively" modifies "gameplan" as well, so you could try that.

also I'm being facetious with my word choice and you know that

[Vorkuta]

DENIED

[Vorkuta]

RC should be lynched now, he's basically open wolf.

No you.

And yes, I'm actually reading the exchange between you guys, and not just memeing. The above ^ holds

[Vorkuta]

My town flip conf scums RC. He knows I'm one of the biggest threats to him here since he's scum and I'm town

Imma be real with you.
I fell for this last game.
As a vig.

[Vorkuta]

.........
wait

@Nero

wtf is this now, that's black magic

oh you deleted a post

[Vorkuta]

Denying Pagetop

Are you sure about that?

NotAnAxehole(4)-Inferno390, Egix96, Skellen, themilkcartonkid
Tchill13 (4)-RadiantCowbells, Vorkuta, jingle, John Pierce Gantt
John Pierce Gantt(2)-davesaz, RuiRui,
RadiantCowbells (1)-Tchill13
themilkcartonkid (1)-NotAnAxehole



Not voting: chennisden

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch or no lynch.


Deadline is (expired on 2019-04-22 00:00:00)

[Vorkuta]

Is that ^ a mod?
I don't recognize him without his fancy mod colors

[Vorkuta]

@Mod

literally nobody voted since last page. Like why even VC

[Vorkuta]

Serious question
-IS ascetic scum "Normal"/"Allowed"?

[Vorkuta]

Goddamit can't wiki properly
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Game#Roles
Tyvm.

Then a followup:

Do you have """other/additional""" crumbs in your ISO that you planted/would've used if things went another way?

[Vorkuta]

I'm hard claiming VT

No.
You do not get any passes.
No.
There is 0 trust left.

[Vorkuta]

But for RC it doesn't matter. The hypocrisy is outstanding.

.....?
Kindly point it out (the bit where RC loses people's trust), and the early Inferno push/gambit doesn't count.

Like we're both reading the same

verbal diarrhea

things that RC spews, except I don't detect such blatant BS like
-self vote
-cop claim
-VT claim

[Vorkuta]

Yes. I mean, if posting frequent VC's with no vote changes bothers anyone I'll stop.

We're just trolling, please keep on doing good work

and don't modkill us

No. I don't fake claim hardly at all and when I fake claim I do not crumb

I mean you have a miller "fake claim" that you might've used, but then you were like "nah, let's use the ascetic one instead" and tried to get brownie points for the miller crumb.
So was there like a "third" claim that you might've used if ascetic wouldn't've suited the situation?

[Vorkuta]

sense in this setup

I would actually slightly disagree as it makes the investigative role even more useless (miller & ascetic just....).
If that's the gimmick of the game, there has to be some decent additional town power to offset this... BS.

[Vorkuta]

Notably, the miller crumb you're talking about came out after I had already claimed miller

Oh no no no. No no no. Nononono.

>Mini2058 (AGAIN): ScumPT: Morality: "If anyone else CC's Miller, then claim miller as well and emphasize that this is a miller heavy setup".
(I can actually find the direct quote, but you guys know what I mean)

Not buying it.

Tchill crumbed a miller claim there as insurance and to keep options open.

[Vorkuta]

Holy shit I figured it out

search.php?keywords=miller&t=78820&sf=msgonly
Mini Normal 2058 ScumPT with "miller" in the search bar.

Look at how morality sets up the ascetic/miller gambit.
This is EXACTLY the same shit tchill is trying to pull off in this game.

[Vorkuta]

Am I associated with that game at all?

Do you deny that pretty much exactly what you're pulling this game, has been quite a very effective gambit in another game? The exact Miller/Ascetic 50/50? You've just refined it by "crumbing"

[Vorkuta]

Wait, we in twilight now?

[Vorkuta]

I copy successful tricks as scum?

I'm not saying you "copied".

I'm just saying- "hey guys, look at the shit I fell victim to last game! does it remind you of something going on in this game?"

[Vorkuta]

Not my fault you're worried about falling for the same trick twice

You sure as hell are trying to feed me something that resembles the exact same trick.

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: themilkcartonkid
There is almost no other conclusion I can think of that would explain the night.

[Vorkuta]

Mm.

[Vorkuta]

Jingle and Inferno feel sorty- town reads on the 2

Probably willing to sheep RC again unless he targets 1 of 2 people

[Vorkuta]

I have little experience with neighborhood/neighborizers (we lynched our Neighborizer on D1 in the only game I played with one so...)
However I'm going to push for a full mass claim just to see how much town power there is

[Vorkuta]

Vorkuta, have you ever played as mafia before? You mentioned only have 1 game of experience, but your join date was a while ago.

Sorry just caught this on an ISO reread.

Nope- I only roll town
My "1 game of experience" was with people claiming miller- up until now, I've only played 1 game where that word was mentioned

[Vorkuta]

Can someone TL;DR why "Bulletproof" implies Vig?
Why can't this just be an NK protection thing?

[Vorkuta]

Suspicious, but not for gameplay reasons- just I like my case on them more than my case on others
Let me see IF and HOW RC would justify a push on said person first ok?

[Vorkuta]

@mod

... you know that they're dead right?

[Vorkuta]

as the cased party being responsible due to the case axehole made

It's like only 20% that tbh.

Like Axehole's

no offense

gameplay didn't give me a confident impression in his gamesolvey abilities so that post had a chance of coming from wrong!town.
My own independent case of milkcartonkid just happened to align with Axehole's "dying proclamation"

Also I'm still waiting on RC's call to sheep (he's pointing at JP, but I don't know if he still wants to pursue that) before I share more of my suspicions.

[Vorkuta]

I think my worse slot right now is Vork. who replaced him, or he is still in the game?

Mobile posting is hard, but yeah what's up?

[Vorkuta]

Sorry didn't get your "hmmm" posts.

-Miller claim: self explanatory.
-RC sheeping: also self explanatory.

Like what's the actual "badness" in them?

[Vorkuta]

In the Miller claim you talk about your experience

Yeah- once bitten, twice shy.

-Gambitting (I actually don't know what the word means, but it seems like a good answer)

That was a tongue in cheek response for me trying to figure out a potential scum!JP's motivation.

he would be the one to take all responsability while you would have just hid in his shadow.

No- as I've stated previously I've had my eye on scum!Tchill INDEPENDENTLY of RC's push on him.
My point there was that his "miller >> ascetic" crumb was something I was not going to fall for again (as I've seen the exact thing done previously).

"I don't know what gambiting is" feels fake

-Tongue in cheek as stated ^. Thought the sarcasm was more or less obvious but oh well.
-I actually don't have know what gambitting is: I only rolled VT (with the exception of that vig game) so I've never had the opportunity/possibility/confidence to "try gambitting"
So TL;DR, this is true on "multiple-levels" which is why it's

funnier

valid.

[Vorkuta]

Vorkuta has been different this day phase - he looks like mafia to me

Sorry- IRL + phoneposting.

Like it was fairly obvious from D1 that I was an active and loud presence/player in the game.
So what now- scum!vork

without any form of guidance and help from the scum!PT

just 180s and stops any and all activity and "gives up"?
Poor case you're trying to make

[Vorkuta]

Because you were following RadiantCowbells, who was active and loud as well

I don't follow.

Today, he's a lot quieter, and so are you, and you're still waiting to see what he pushes - why?

IRL is hard

Because I have a hunch and I want to see what happens?
Like
-me explicitly stating my "move" ahead of time would probably render it useless
-I'll tell you if it "works" or if I'm just wrong/misguided.
-because the stuff I've said about my wincon = sheepRC still holds valid

[Vorkuta]

hey Vorkuta why did you locktown Davesaz super early?

Yes.

Intentionally not responding until later

[Vorkuta]

Your point being?

Like obviously- I don't think this needs to be said but here it is:
IF RC does stuff which I perceive to be anti-town/anti-wincon/I disappove of, then obviously I will unsheep and develop a brain.
IF other events (claims/wagons/slips/idk) take place, then I will develop a brain and I think for myself.

I'm not promising to vote park on RC's top scumread and drive it home until the end of the game REGARDLESS. Like. Come on.

[Vorkuta]

Vorkuta, can you explain this post for me:

His ISO looks like scum.

high effort

In all seriousness- he's not someone I agree with period. Like every other

non fluff/filler/safe opinon/parrotting

post they've written is something I shake my head to while reading along. Their ISO looks horrible on D1, and their "neighbor" shenanigans on D2 only strengthen my case.

[Vorkuta]

but this is what my brain is translating:

"I'll sheep RC until it looks bad"

Yeah I accept this.
I'll sheep RC until I think he's scum. At which case I can't win anymore but meh- might as well try something, but we'll get there when the time comes.

also, I don't think you and rc can be buddies so if Vork flips red I think RC is town

hey RC- that thing you told me to do in the PT thread? TOtally working

[Vorkuta]

-No
-I wouldn't out a mason buddy like that even if we were

[Vorkuta]

Let me be slightly less subtle without actually saying anything.

Hi

again

to RC, Chennis, and

Dave

[Vorkuta]

3. Say that has experience when is convinient, says he doesn't have when it's convenient
4. Tried to fake newbiness by saying that they didn't know what "gambitting" means when they clearly understood what a gambit was.

The hell is this?
Does 'tongue-in-cheek' not register to you at all?

[Vorkuta]

Fot what its worth now, the reason I was willing to sheep RC is because I was pretty damn sure that miller => investigative, and RC is a player who warrants an early investigation.
The only person I wasn't willing to sheep him over was RuiRui. As that would mean my theory ^ wouldn't hold anymore on a red flip and.... fack.

[Vorkuta]

Ascetic amd miller give negatibe utility to town and the rolecop + 1 more scumPR feel balanced especially considering some of the recent games I was in

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Fumuki

[Vorkuta]

Wait, that broken and idk what happened

[Vorkuta]

UNVOTE:
But intent to hammer. I want to hear everyone out before L-1

[Vorkuta]

Intent to hammer

, but come on- it hasn't even been like... an hour since the day began

[Vorkuta]

10/10 analysis, please keep it up

[Vorkuta]

RC- you can't do this for ~3000 posts.... can you?

[Vorkuta]

Will you hate me if I said I'm actually interested to see this play out?

[Vorkuta]

Like I think it's an objectively DICK move to hammer someone

phrasing

before they even check in today?
Yes I understand that they could "planning in scumPT" and whatnot but still... I don't want to be "that guy"

[Vorkuta]

i won't continue unless you hammer

So then I'd have to time my hammer for when the mod is asleep so we get as much twilight as possible

[Vorkuta]

I want to voice my objections to hammering WITHOUT even waiting for 3 people to even check in

[Vorkuta]

But RC is guilt tripping me and I can't resist so I'm very sorry
VOTE: Fumuki hammer

[Vorkuta]

Yeah but there could always be some context or pretext or "joke" or other reason

[Vorkuta]

Like I'd love to get JP's insight or something on this for example
And hey- maybe some people haven't even woken up to see the flip and then BAM: thread is locked FOR ANOTHER 2 days

[Vorkuta]

Oh shit he's actually doing it

[Vorkuta]

JP?

*dave's

confusion between games my bad

[Vorkuta]

I played to my wincon and blindly sheeped RC
I did well?

Really... "thoughtprovoking" game and interesting setup

[Vorkuta]

I feel bad for the scum team, this really was pretty townsided.

I can SEE how the negative utility w/ ascetic and miller would've kind of balanced out the positive PRs but like... yeah I'm inclined to agree

[Vorkuta]

#moddedication

but I still feel like that was kind of a dick move to do

[Vorkuta]

I suck at PRs

[Vorkuta]

Teach me your ways