Mini-Normal 2070 is done

[RuiRui]

Hi guys, I'm a miller

[RuiRui]

I claimed miller because I believe that is the correct play, I don't think claiming miller after a cop check is believable and it wastes investigative actions.

I doubt that both axe and Inferno are scum together, I think scum are more hesitant to start bussing each other, It looks like they voted each other when they got moderately close to being lynched, only thing that gives me pause is axe voting me in post 34 after inferno is talking about millers, but then the fast flip to going after Inferno doesn't seem like something 2 scum do together so early - I'd expect there to be more hesitance

[RuiRui]

and partially because I didn't like his miller questions.

Why didn't you like them?

[RuiRui]

Inferno, do you have a read on Vorkuta?

[RuiRui]

If you think Axe’s move was survivalistic, are he and I scumbuddies?

No, that would imply the opposite

[RuiRui]

I think some of Inferno's recent posting has been pretty good

I'm taking a closer look at John Pierce Gantt's push there and I get the feeling he's trying to make Inferno look guilty rather than trying to figure Inferno's alignment out

VOTE: John Pierce Gannt

[RuiRui]

I think it's too early in the game to lock someone in as mafia and not want to talk to them.

I think Inferno can be town who made some suspect posts early on, that you quickly jumped on - in that case trying to argue about you if you're right that he

could

be mafia for those posts, or that it's more likely to come from mafia etc. is a waste of time. I thought the post he made talking about Vorkuta being town and the few after that looked more like town than scum.

[RuiRui]

This interaction pinged me, although I dont know what it pinged or who pinged it

Maybe it pinged for you because you viewed the whole post as an interaction when it really wasn't one?
Except for the first quote, they were just comments.

When someone quotes a post, that is an interaction. Axe interacted with you and either their interaction or your original response pinged me. Not sure yet why

It kind of feels like John Pierce Gantt is softly defending Axe

[RuiRui]

But the votes

are

piling on Inferno

[RuiRui]

Tchill, if you are town I think the best thing to do is to talk about your other reads besides RC and Inferno. Specifically, what group of players are you willing to entertain the idea of lynching today?

[RuiRui]

Let's play a little game shall we?

Inferno390(4)-

RadiantCowbells

,

NotAnAxehole

,

John Pierce Gantt

,

Vorkuta

John Pierce Gantt(2)-

davesaz

,

RuiRui

NotAnAxehole()-

Inferno390

,

Egix96

RadiantCowbells(1)-

themilkcartonkid

Skellen(1)-

ErzaScarlet

Erza Scarlet(1)-

Tchill13

Not voting:

chennisden

,

Skellen

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch or no lynch.

Town

Power

Null

Scum

Well that was fun, it seems like the Inferno wagon built so much early confidence that scum got really confused and forgot that they should be bussing.

Can you explain this to me, does this mean you are going to reconsider your read on me because of my claim later, or that you're treating me differently because of my claim, or what?

[RuiRui]

I will, once I try and get people to believe in my JP wagon.

Upon rereading his ISO, I find myself shaking my head at every other one of his comments, WHICH IS BAD because he's also mostly engaging Tchill and Inferno.
Like I don't understand how I like my scumreads' answers/defense more than JP's posts/questions.

I believe in it - kind of

I'm able and willing to show support for an Axe lynch

I'm much more hesitant on Tchill

[RuiRui]

I think Skellen has made some very good posts and points this game

[RuiRui]

i think there are a shit ton of super towny slots

{Skellen, Egix96} are the reads I feel best about
{Vorkuta, RadiantCowbells, Inferno390, ThemilkKartonkid} Is my next tier where I'm not so certain but they look town

[RuiRui]

Are you claiming cop?

Yes. Get off my lawn

Hi

Can you explain your play around my claim now:

VOTE: ruirui

Is there any pro-town reason to claim Miller before day 2? The only reason to claim Miller is to protect a cop no?

Let's play a little game shall we?

Inferno390(4)-

RadiantCowbells

,

NotAnAxehole

,

John Pierce Gantt

,

Vorkuta

John Pierce Gantt(2)-

davesaz

,

RuiRui

NotAnAxehole()-

Inferno390

,

Egix96

RadiantCowbells(1)-

themilkcartonkid

Skellen(1)-

ErzaScarlet

Erza Scarlet(1)-

Tchill13

Not voting:

chennisden

,

Skellen

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch or no lynch.

Town

Power

Null

Scum

Well that was fun, it seems like the Inferno wagon built so much early confidence that scum got really confused and forgot that they should be bussing.

Davesaz and ruirui have no business pushing JPG right now as scum, it's clear we aren't lynching him and it feels like a town counter-wagon. Ruirui to be re-evaluated if it looks like we're going towards LyLo... But eh...

It doesn't make sense to me that you seem to doubt my claim so much if you're actually a cop?

RC, I see your posts about Skellen, I'm not sure how to feel about that right now, I don't think I agree but I'll keep it in mind

[RuiRui]

Axe, can you respond to what I'm saying please

[RuiRui]

Axe, can you respond to my query? I don't know why you played the way you did as cop

[RuiRui]

Any competent group of town makes sure the Miller is lynched before lylo if we ever reach that point. I propose we carry on as normal and if we're pushed to that brink THEN we with it.

Yes it's essentially dead man walking.

Tchill, this is a really weird post for you to be making when you're an ascetic yourself and softing it...?

[RuiRui]

ruirui

i think you're pretty awesome

but i don't understand how you don't realize that he's an outed wolf

I don't think it's impossible for there to be both a miller and an ascetic

I do think it's pretty weird that he waited this long, but also I think ascetic is a weird fakeclaim as scum here (but maybe that's why he would make it)

I don't really trust Axe and I think the way he treated my claim was weird, I understand it's better to leave him alive for today though

Some of the reasoning for lynching Tchill seems to be that the cop would check two people when there's no guarantee of a cop anyway

Basically, if Axe is scum, I think Tchill can be town with his claim - setup wise, if town had a rolecop or something it would really change the way a miller interacts with the setup without changing the way ascetic does

[RuiRui]

I do think it's pretty weird that he waited this long, but also I think ascetic is a weird fakeclaim as scum here (but maybe that's why he would make it)

he likely is ascetic, and he's already softed it, so...

Oh, but you think he's scum anyway?

[RuiRui]

I'm hard claiming VT

Why did you claim cop...?

[RuiRui]

Yes. I mean, if posting frequent VC's with no vote changes bothers anyone I'll stop.

We're just trolling, please keep on doing good work

and don't modkill us

No. I don't fake claim hardly at all and when I fake claim I do not crumb

I mean you have a miller "fake claim" that you might've used, but then you were like "nah, let's use the ascetic one instead" and tried to get brownie points for the miller crumb.
So was there like a "third" claim that you might've used if ascetic wouldn't've suited the situation?

Notably, the miller crumb you're talking about came out after I had already claimed miller

[RuiRui]

I'm inclined to vote for Axe because I don't see how faking a cop claim can help the town, whereas it's at least plausible in my eyes that tchill can be town (sorry)

[RuiRui]

Anyway, I was just kidding.
That 2 was a mod error.

Maybe you should have let it play out a bit more?

[RuiRui]

Tchill looks like angry town to me

[RuiRui]

Hi guys, the 1-shot bulletproof made me think that we had a vigilante, and Axe dying makes me think of that as a vigilante kill as well, it's possible that the mafia kill was stopped? That's especially pointed towards Vorkuta.

RadiantCowbells, It's foolish to continue to try to outguess the setup before a mass claim. Why do I look like a strong scum candidate?

Also, can I get everybody to give me an opinion on Jingle? Reads-wise, what do you guys think about him?

[RuiRui]

I'm not 100% but I believe Egix, Skellen, and themilkcartonkid are all town

Making a mental note that Jingle is claiming to be in a neighborhood, same as Egix I have no reason to dispute the claim

chennisden, what was up with your play with the end of the last day?

For now:

VOTE: vorkuta

Because he's a part of my personal POE of ~5 players I feel need to be focused on today

A vig isn't confirmed yet, it could be that the cop claim spooked scum and so they killed him just in case, it was just a theory because I was thinking that if we had a vig they would shoot Axe

[RuiRui]

Sounded a bit like a rolefishing attempt in Vorkuta's direction, unless I misunderstood here something.

Vorkuta said he couldn't think of another reason for the nightkill and voted themilkcarton, I pointed out that it could have been a Vig - I wasn't asking him for his role

[RuiRui]

I do have a question, why if we have an ascetic and at least 1 of a miller, vig, and neighborizer would prs need to share info?

I think it's pretty clear that there has to be additional town power beyond a vig and a neighborizor in a setup, I don't really consider the 1-shot bulletproof ascetic to be particularly valuable when it comes to balancing the setup. The Vig isn't confirmed, Axe could have also been killed because he claimed cop on day 1. it can be figured out later. Speculating about this kind of thing isn't particularly helpful because it calls into question what the rest of our power roles are when we should instead be focusing on individual players and trying to find mafia today and not worrying so much about setup speculation today IMO

[RuiRui]

3) If RuiRui and Tchill13 were both town (which you seem to believe) there is almost confirmed to be a cop. I as scum would know this. Why would I stick my neck way the fuck out and be an extremely likely cop target as scum in this situation?

Isn't there an investigative in almost every setup? This is a really weak point you're pushing. The answer is that you do it so you can later point to it as something you wouldn't do. Also, you tried directing investigative actions yesterday by telling a cop to check Skellen.

2) Correct me if I'm wrong but you're a NRG members as well? How often do you see two cop failures in one setup as the same alignment. OTOH, Informed is heavily used these days.

What is the argument for Informed? IIRC I told you I had mafia experience in the last game, so this and the part where you said I'd have my team telling me what to do is a weird angle to be genuinely coming at this at..

1) At the very least, the reason I could have made that mistake as town should be obvious to you. They both objectively played to the world I was concerned about.

My perspective: yesterday you pushed tchill and axe (both town), and called for a cop on Skellen (probably town), and today it looks like you want to push me (town) - that's 4 townies or likely townies that you've pushed for a lynch, or in Skellen's case tried to dismantle townreads and direct cop actions. That's too many too fast, it means if you're town you're a serious liability right now and need to try playing at less of a town leader role and more of a role where you somehow show that you're town because right now I have serious doubts

[RuiRui]

Jingle probably scum.

I was neighborized last night. My neighborized has a shot remaining. Please let me know if you want to join me and a mysterious third person in partying hardy.

I’ll let y’all know if neighborizor becomes obvtown or obvscum.

Why would you out yourself like this? Now you've given scum an easy agenda to play to.

What do you mean here? Do you think mafia are going to want to kill Jingle just for being in a neighborhood?

[RuiRui]

Here's the other option
What if scum thought that Axe was actually the cop and was lolcatting afterwards to look like they weren't the cop

Yes I agree, I think I said something like this

If one of your team members (presumably you) is informed that there are no millers, well, you would claim miller.

Why would that be a thing? Mafia being informed that there's no millers when there's an ascetic in the setup?

Your slot is mechanically scum 80%+ of the time.

But I'm not scum

[RuiRui]

But if it's suspicious for ascetic and miller to both exist why would mafia be 'baited' into claiming miller by their roles?

[RuiRui]

I don't think it's RC fault he helped mislynch

Give RC town some consideration.

I kind of feel like you brushed past some points to write this. Who do you think is Mafia?

[RuiRui]

I think if you're scum you wouldn't play around an investigative nearly as much as you're making this out to be, Tchill had explained that you were making a push that wouldn't look like it's coming from scum. I think if your scum your plan is to do as much damage as you possibly can, thinking that you can be copped at any time

[RuiRui]

RadiantCowbells I'm suspicious of you because your actions so far have benefited mafia in my eyes, you might just be having a bad game or whatever, I don't really believe in any of that stuff about not sticking your neck out for investigative, it's like you're trying to get out of a read on a technicality that doesn't matter very much - that's just how I feel about it.

[RuiRui]

I don't think there's any basis to assume a cop checked you, especially since Axe wasn't dead until the start of day 2

[RuiRui]

And as I said, it's foolish to assume anything mechanical when you don't have all the info. There may roles that make my role more likely to be town that exist. I think right now it's a better idea to focus on people's play

[RuiRui]

The Vig isn't confirmed, Axe could have also been killed because he claimed cop on day 1.

[RuiRui]

Like I said RadiantCowbells, it's foolish to try to get into setup speculation so early. Depending on roles/distribution, an investigative may not even get a guilty on me (in which case my role is just a red herring miller to cause some setup confusion)

[RuiRui]

Greetings. I have been quite busy today but I did read up, and there was one thing that caught my eyes.

@Inferno:
Why did you leave your vote on Axe after his cop claim?

I believe this is not what town would ask.

VOTE: Skellen

Why do you think this is worth a vote on Skellen? How is it not something town would ask?

[RuiRui]

I still think Vorkuta is town because I think if he was Mafia he still would have tried to kill the seal despite what happened yesterday.
Of course, the other explanation is "they are Mafia together," but I highly doubt it because I think the seal is quite transparently town.

Why is Vorkuta more likely to kill RadiantCowbells than any other player?

[RuiRui]

Chenn is saying that he wouldn't kill lynchbait who was pushing him, but also said that themilkcartonkid is the only person who it makes sense to nightkill Axe.

I don't agree with his thinking there either, and I've already explained why between vig possibilities and mafia killing the person who briefly claimed cop, it does appear to be an inconsistency in his thinking though, I want to see him expand on it.

[RuiRui]

chennisden, do you think that the neighborizor themself is more likely than not town?

[RuiRui]

Vorkuta, are you suspicious of anybody? Who is the person you wouldn't vote if RC targeted?

[RuiRui]

Because the case on Milk that Axe made at end of day had legitimate merits.

What merits?

If the case had merits before the nightkill, why does your case appear to be solely based on the nightkill?

This is a good point, nobody has referenced the case axe made which I think Chen would have brought it up if he really believed it had merit

Vorkuta, do you want to talk about your secret read now? How come you didn't say themilkcartonkid when I asked you if you had any suspicions?

[RuiRui]

Eh, fuck lowkey reactions.

Egix crumbed loyal hard and I want to see if he dies tonight because of it.

one person was voting him

you did NOT need to out like that

Both me and my neighbor noticed it immediately. It was a sloppy crumb.

Dont add me to the neighborhood then...

What does this mean? Why does that line by Jingle make you say that?

[RuiRui]

Eh, fuck lowkey reactions.

Egix crumbed loyal hard and I want to see if he dies tonight because of it.

one person was voting him

you did NOT need to out like that

Do you think that action by Jingle was alignment indicative?

[RuiRui]

I think Egix should claim nothing today and a protective role should target him, if possible

[RuiRui]

No, you used an entirely different context for your read there - you're saying that themilkcartonkid would have nightkilled Axe because he made a case against him, you never pointed to Axe's points as reasons to scumread themilkcartonkid and never talked about his individual points

[RuiRui]

Because the case on Milk that Axe made at end of day had legitimate merits.

What merits?

If the case had merits before the nightkill, why does your case appear to be solely based on the nightkill?

[RuiRui]

Inferno, do you townread chennisden?

[RuiRui]

Why do you think that Jingle is confirmed? Just curious

[RuiRui]

Ouch, I'm not even slightly town?

I'm going to:

VOTE: chennisden

Bringing him to L-2

[RuiRui]

Do you think there is a correlation between chennisden and John Pierce Gantt's alignments?

[RuiRui]

I'm not suspecting themilkcartonkid, I've still got him as lean town (along with Inferno)

[RuiRui]

My own independent case of milkcartonkid just happened to align with Axehole's "dying proclamation"

What was your independent case?

[RuiRui]

My own independent case of milkcartonkid just happened to align with Axehole's "dying proclamation"

What was your independent case?

[RuiRui]

conftown

Buki is likely town by both play and role soft - saying he's confirmed town when there hasn't been full claims, only speculation so far, is incorrect

[RuiRui]

It's been so long since Dave has made a serious post, I think he's likely to be mafia by POE but I don't really want to push him when he's too busy to post

Vorkuta has been different this day phase - he looks like mafia to me

[RuiRui]

3.The "I don't know what gambiting is" feels fake when you have been here for around 6 months looking your register date.

When did he say that? He was all over gambits earlier when he was pushing Tchill

[RuiRui]

Okay, he was talking about the concept of gambiting a lot but never called it as such (and so I don't think it's significant)

[RuiRui]

Finding townreads and using process of elimination is valid, do you want to talk about your townreads?

[RuiRui]

Like it was fairly obvious from D1 that I was an active and loud presence/player in the game.

Because you were following RadiantCowbells, who was active and loud as well

Today, he's a lot quieter, and so are you, and you're still waiting to see what he pushes - why?

[RuiRui]

RC
TMCK
Skellen
Egix
Inferno390

i think contains scum like... virtually never

OK

Where does your poe lead you today, who are the scummiest slots that we should be looking at today

[RuiRui]

Okay, he was talking about the concept of gambiting a lot but never called it as such (and so I don't think it's significant)

I disagree. it's very significant

I'm of the opinion that you catch scum by the details, not by the rough context

He said he didn't know the concept of gambitting and that he was inexperencied, while also claiming that he was experienced when convenient (miller claim). I don't feel it's genuine posting, even more since he seems so non-compromissing.

If you haven't seen it, he was pushing that Tchill was making a gambit play, and was also talking about how claiming miller could be a gambit play (he never used that wording though)

Because you were following RadiantCowbells, who was active and loud as well

I don't follow.

Today, he's a lot quieter, and so are you, and you're still waiting to see what he pushes - why?

IRL is hard

Because I have a hunch and I want to see what happens?
Like
-me explicitly stating my "move" ahead of time would probably render it useless
-I'll tell you if it "works" or if I'm just wrong/misguided.
-because the stuff I've said about my wincon = sheepRC still holds valid

hey Vorkuta why did you locktown Davesaz super early?

Yes.

Intentionally not responding until later

okay but this keeps being put off all because it seems you want to try to read RadiantCowbells better - but you mentioned you'd be fine sheeping him again today

[RuiRui]

Vorkuta, can you explain this post for me:

My own independent case of milkcartonkid just happened to align with Axehole's "dying proclamation"

What was your independent case?

[RuiRui]

davesaz
vork
buki
egix
rc
inferno
ruirui
tmck

chennis
.jpeg
jingle

What does this mean?

[RuiRui]

well

are vorkuta and davesaz masons?

How does this question benefit town today vs a later day? Neither of them are being lynched right now

[RuiRui]

I don't think it's RC fault he helped mislynch

Give RC town some consideration.

Also the "hindsight" of seeing that milk had a bad scumpool on 318 was because tchill and axe flipped. There were reasons to suspect tchill and axe scum

The only really bad thing in that scumpool was RC.

So... do you townread RadiantCowbells? Post 866 seems kind of weird

[RuiRui]

How come?

[RuiRui]

Why not chennisden then?

I see JPG Vork rn.

Milk didnt help push my mislynch despite MANY MANY chances. That's part of the reason for the unvote.

I think it doesn't take that much to figure out that this reasoning is straight out of his rear end.

This post seems kind of scummy to me, because I thought what chenn was saying in 1325 was okay

[RuiRui]

My understanding is that the mafia rolecop cannot both kill and check in the same night, that means one of the other 2 mafia would have made the kill. Buki was roleblocked, so he is less likely to be mafia than other people, I think

[RuiRui]

Okay so Jingle is confirmed town?

[RuiRui]

Didn't we already discuss that it was likely that scums kill didn't go through?

Only if there is a vigilante - but there was only 1 death tonight

[RuiRui]

A loyal role would be able to target me, since I only appear as guilty to cop checks, not to loyal roles

Our investigative only has a negative result on one person (ascetic, confuses loyal role)

[RuiRui]

I mean even if not I don't think it's particularly AI

It means there is a ~50% chance that Buki isn't mafia just based on roleblocks and who mafia decided to send

[RuiRui]

Wait, that doesn't even matter.
The game is already over.

What do you mean?

[RuiRui]

Isn't a cop and an odd night loyal neighborizor too much power?

[RuiRui]

Isn't a cop and an odd night loyal neighborizor too much power?

Well I plan to check that said neighborizer tonight.

Do you know who it is?

[RuiRui]

I think Buki really played in a town leader sort of way - in a good way. Like they thought they were confirmed so they started leading town and it worked out.

[RuiRui]

I'm conftown go away

You don't doubt the neighborizor/cop in any way? Weren't you getting mad at tchill for doing thsi with ascetic and miller?

[RuiRui]

Well actually loyal jailkeeper doesn't function as an investigative at all, because it can't block mafia

[RuiRui]

Which also means I was mistaken on my 50% theory earlier

[RuiRui]

What rolecop?

[RuiRui]

John, if you're a regular cop, why are you suspecting me when I've claimed miller?

[RuiRui]

Let me be slightly less subtle without actually saying anything.

Hi

again

to RC, Chennis, and

Dave

[RuiRui]

i think it's possible the entire neighbourhood never existed.

How would jingle get away with faking a neighborhood? What happens if we get to lylo and there's no neighborizor? This suspicion seems unfounded

[RuiRui]

Don't forget miller

[RuiRui]

Also.... I don't think that setup is balanced

I think mafia have a roleblocker at least in that setup, and even then it's considerably townsided

[RuiRui]

What do you think of the game davesaz?

[RuiRui]

I do believe the plan for today should be to nolynch and have Fumuki shoot

I find it increasingly likely that mafia have a roleblocker, though

[RuiRui]

Also, I believe that claim

[RuiRui]

It doesn't look balanced to me.

I suspect the Cop is lying. I understand it's not a good idea to lynch them today, but I'm wary of that claim

[RuiRui]

So RuiRui played it correctly by the manual if I got it right.

Or... there is no miller this game.
And scum!RuiRui played it by the manual.

True, that's possible. The "manual" also says in order to prevent fakeclaims to get a miller lynched or shot by a Vigilante role. Personally I agree more with dave's approach in #35, but if the former is the consensus here, wouldn't fakeclaiming miller put scum into a dead man walking position for no reason?

You hinted experience in this matter if I got #29 right. Mind to elaborate on that for understanding?

I do believe Skellen softed their role by capitalizing the V in vigilante here

[RuiRui]

Wait a second

Fumuki, you were jailkept night 1 - that means mafia also targeted Axe and your shot was blocked

[RuiRui]

I fully believe the vigilante claim and that Fumuki is town

[RuiRui]

Skellen seemed like a very methodical player, the fact they capitalized the V in vigilante wasn't just by chance, they didn't capitalize miller or cop for example

[RuiRui]

Fumuki, off the top of my head I think the plan regarding your role is for you to holster tonight for sure, and then additionally holster until there is only 1 mafia member alive. Mafia usually can't roleblock and perform a kill on the same night, so your shot would be more accurate for the information we're getting.

The alternative plan is for you to name a target, or for Jingle to name a target, for you to shoot at tonight - and then seeing what happens between you and the cop claim for kills/roleblocks

[RuiRui]

It doesn't look balanced to me.

I suspect the Cop is lying. I understand it's not a good idea to lynch them today, but I'm wary of that claim

you claim miller and you think that the cop is the one lying

Why do you think the cop is the one telling the truth?

Mafia can fakeclaim cop based off of me claiming miller. All the loyal role claims make sense to me. How come John Pierce Gantt couldn't have planned his claim in advance, but Fumuki could have?

[RuiRui]

Because he's clear and he can make sure it's not:
a. The neighbor
b. Someone they're investigating

Fumuki naming the target works too. I think the best play is to just holster for night 3 and then additionally holster until 1 mafia remains

[RuiRui]

tmck could be scum?

or just jingle

i dunno

i'm gonna go to besd

Uh.... what about davesaz?

[RuiRui]

cop
loyal jailkeeper
2-shot loyal vigilant
odd night loyal neighbourizer
1-bp ascestic

I`m not that good about setup balancing, but what could ever balance this out for scum tbh?

All of these roles have restrictions except "cop"

Game balance wise, what would happen if the loyal neighborizor targeted the cop night 1?

[RuiRui]

I can't see a scenario where Jingle can be scum so he's clear to me

[RuiRui]

Because if cop was loyal, it would be very useless.

But it wouldn't be useless, there would just be confusion about whether you were roleblocked or if you have an actual guilty. It would be more balanced.

It would also mean you could properly cop me even though I'm a miller, if you got a result at all on me you'd know I was town because of a loyal modifier - very much not useless

There's other ways to gate your role beyond making it loyal, as well

[RuiRui]

Ascetic and miller are just two players you can't target, and ascetic was a counter to every loyal role including the vigilante

[RuiRui]

Like I said RadiantCowbells, it's foolish to try to get into setup speculation so early. Depending on roles/distribution, an investigative may not even get a guilty on me (in which case my role is just a red herring miller to cause some setup confusion)

[RuiRui]

Why did you investigate Radiant Cowbells on night 1, and Vorkuta on night 2?

[RuiRui]

If every investigatives were loyal, miller would serve zero purpose in this game.

It lets mafia know who not to rolecop

[RuiRui]

As does the ascetic claim

[RuiRui]

But you outted your info before Vorkuta could post day 3

[RuiRui]

okay...

I'm going to wait and see what everyone else has to say. I suspect you but I understand it's not a good idea to lynch you today

[RuiRui]

The logic seemed sound to me - that chennis would be reading Milk as town because Milk never took the opportunity to mislynch chennis (from his point of view, if he were town)

[RuiRui]

What I'm saying is that I don't think what you called him out on made sense, not that I townread him

[RuiRui]

I'm conftown and my mechanical skills are unparalleled

Just stop please.

or we could just lynch ruirui who can't be the neighbourizer

[RuiRui]

the neighbourizer being scum.... okk

that kinda meshes

I made this argument in the pt: If I'm scum then how would I fakeclaim a role that fits in perfects with the setup, being both loyal and a miller

[RuiRui]

Why did mafia kill Egix? Did they not think he would be protected by a doctor?

[RuiRui]

Why is that a reasonable guess?

[RuiRui]

cuz it would be really aids if the investigative outed and couldn't be killed most of the time?

I do think my role is more powerful than a normal investigative. That's why I think the cop claim must be fake or the setup gets really wonky.

Miller odd-night loyal neighborizer adds to the theme of "nerfed" roles, because I'm a miller

And then there's plain "Cop"

i just feel like

2-shot loyal vig
1-shot bulletproof acetic
miller loyal odd-night neighbourizer
loyal jailkeeper

is implausibly scumsided. can't be it.

I don't feel that way

[RuiRui]

VOTE: davesaz

[RuiRui]

davesaz maybe you can focus on talking about your reads?

[RuiRui]

This plan isn't going to work. If Fumuki is targetting mafia I can be roleblocked and we'll both have nothing to show. We need to no lynch and let Fumuki choose between inferno/milk/dave

[RuiRui]

I think we should use the vig because that's 1 more person that has to be roleblocked/killed

[RuiRui]

ok fine if he really wants to vig he can. but we're still lynching.

Yeah

We`re lynching Inferno

I`m going to target MCK

it`ll be a guilty

it`ll flip red

and I`ll be conftown

do you disagree with anything?

OKAY

VOTE: Inferno

[RuiRui]

We'd need to lynch the cop first

[RuiRui]

Hey Fumuki, let's take a step back for a moment

I don't doubt that you're town: I was convinced that there are mechanical advantages to targeting you today if you also shoot someone today

If both of our abilities fail, the correct play is to kill who you targeted. If my ability fails, we'll know I was roleblocked

I agree with this plan. I don't agree with lynching you

[RuiRui]

Fumuki, can you shoot at davesaz?

[RuiRui]

And can you guys stop provoking them

[RuiRui]

RadiantCowbells was checked by the cop, he cannot be mafia with anyone except GuyinFreezer

[RuiRui]

ruirui

i think you're pretty awesome

but i don't understand how you don't realize that he's an outed wolf

[RuiRui]

Fumuki, can you shoot at davesaz?

MCK is scum, and please, don`t say it`s bussing when he flips red.

I can have my moments.

ok, then can you shoot at mck and not radiant?

[RuiRui]

Can we stop this? Lynching Fumuki today is really bad, don't do it. Fumuki, please stop threatening to vig RC, just stick to dave/milk, we've got this

[RuiRui]

yup. Leaving fumuki alive tonight and having her vig was ALWAYS insurance about me being wrong about ruirui.

I'm not wrong about my read on Fumuki - don't lynch them

[RuiRui]

Even if you think Fumuki is scum, it's safer play to not aim there today. It's a confirmable role.

[RuiRui]

Forget about RC for a minute

Can you ignore him and focus on a plan so we can plan around you with night actions

I don't think we lose this game if you're alive to the night phase

[RuiRui]

Fumuki no

Can you follow the plan and ignore him for now

And then what happens happens, if you get a guilty we win regardless

[RuiRui]

I'm trying to keep this game as pleasant for you as possible

The way for you to do that is to stop engaging with RC, and not shoot him

If he's scum, we'll figure that out later. Let's see what happens with night actions tonight. Don't mess with the cops targets

[RuiRui]

That's @Fumuki

[RuiRui]

meh

i'm just

fucking losing it

You too

You only want to lynch Fumuki because they want to kill you, but that's not the correct play either. Even no lynching is better than that. We need Fumuki alive, I need them alive especially because it's another person mafia has to worry about roleblocking

[RuiRui]

what if both of those claims are fake and its

cop
loyal jailkeeper
ascetic 1-shot bp
7vt

vs

rolecop
goon
goon

Weren't you saying that setup was very much not balanced? Remember, I'd still have to be some form of neighborizor, even if I were mafia

[RuiRui]

Vork claimed PR, so we have our secret VorkPR too.

Wait, what?

And he didn't share that for this entire time because he thought me and RC were speccing for practice?

He didn't share it because you explicitly told him not to claim

[RuiRui]

In honor of your read on fumuki-slot, I'm going to request that

dave, fumuki and ferno all claim in their next post.

[RuiRui]

Okay

I wanted him to claim too but I thought people were saying that because Jingle/RC/Vorkuta were all checks then they all get to not claim

[RuiRui]

Ascetic amd miller give negatibe utility to town and the rolecop + 1 more scumPR feel balanced especially considering some of the recent games I was in

I also took this as if they were claiming VT

[RuiRui]

me and vorkuta and davesaz are neighbours btw.

why did davesaz claim vt?

[RuiRui]

VOTE: Davesaz

I don't see how he can be town if he's a neighbor

[RuiRui]

me and vorkuta and davesaz are neighbours btw.

why did davesaz claim vt?

i mean i think he just meant we didn't have any powers.

That's dumb

He claimed VT, not neighbor with no powers

Are you gambiting again?

[RuiRui]

I think in order for all 3 of those neighbors to be town the cop would have to be fake.

That's a very important balance piece you've kept from us.

[RuiRui]

Again I call back to

Jailkeeper
Cop
1shot BP
7 VT

Vs 3 goons

Why keep saying stuff like this during setup spec?

[RuiRui]

I think in order for all 3 of those neighbors to be town the cop would have to be fake.

That's a very important balance piece you've kept from us.

Neighbors hold 0 power when balancing.

I disagree if they're all town.

[RuiRui]

Again I call back to

Jailkeeper
Cop
1shot BP
7 VT

Vs 3 goons

Why keep saying stuff like this during setup spec?

mostly because the neighbourhood doesn't actually exist

So... it was a gambit?

[RuiRui]

We need to not lynch Fumuki today

[RuiRui]

I mean yeah we really can't not lynch Fumuki unless there is a way to 100% make sure that he's not shooting RC.

Use your words

Stop baiting them to make angry replies and convince them of the logic behind not shooting RC

[RuiRui]

Shooting me is the wrong play because me and Jingle can both die at the same time, leaving you to lie about my result.

It makes it so the mechanical play is to lynch you

[RuiRui]

Don't shoot me please

[RuiRui]

Shooting me is the wrong play because me and Jingle can both die at the same time, leaving you to lie about my result.

It makes it so the mechanical play is to lynch you

meh this is wrong, if you get any shot off at all you're confirmed town

[RuiRui]

Then who do I target today?

dave, milk, or inferno, please

[RuiRui]

If you're vigging me I have no reason to target you

[RuiRui]

if you're serious about vigging me I should go on Dave/MCK assuming we lynch inferno

[RuiRui]

You target me

I target one of [Davez, MCK]

Then we 100% have a guilty on someone in the next day.

But if you get roleblocked and the cop is killed... we don't have a guilty

[RuiRui]

I'm okay with the plan of you shooting me and me investigating the vt's Fumuki

[RuiRui]

The only thing we need to avoid is lynching me and then also lynching Fumuki. If Fumuki's kill fails tomorrow, and you guys lynch me, can I trust that we won't then turn on Fumuki? Or is that not necessary

[RuiRui]

I really don't like the idea of targeting Fumuki. My "squicky" post was me arguing that targeting Fumuki just means they're the nightkill

[RuiRui]

Why would fumuki ever be the fucking nightkill

Because the neighborizor is targeting them, and their vig confirm is on town, that's 2 birds with one stone, and then they roleblock the cop, and kill me the next day since I'm odd night

[RuiRui]

Regardless of your alignment whoever you neighborizes is town 99%.

That's not true

The only thing we need to avoid is lynching me and then also lynching Fumuki. If Fumuki's kill fails tomorrow, and you guys lynch me, can I trust that we won't then turn on Fumuki? Or is that not necessary

this is not a good look

Go on...?

I'm not going to be pushing Fumuki tomorrow if it comes to it, I'd let you guys lynch me

[RuiRui]

If scum have a roleblocker why kill axehole instead of.vigging him

If scum don't have a roleblocker, I believe the cop claim is fake

[RuiRui]

Shoot me Fumuki

Jingle will tell you my target tomorrow

If me and Jingle are both dead... I don't know, scum might try to fake being in the neighborhood

[RuiRui]

I'd like if we figured out what we were doing before lynching

[RuiRui]

Fumuki targets Davesaz

I'll target whatever Jingle tells me to

[RuiRui]

milkcartonkid you're starting to worry me

[RuiRui]

But fumuki isn't?

no, because she's town

[RuiRui]

Jingle, what is Fumuki targeting?

[RuiRui]

Target me Fumuki IMO

[RuiRui]

No

Why not?

[RuiRui]

if he claims a guilty on me I will have a result

[RuiRui]

I'm not afraid of getting shot if it advances the game

I don't think Fumuki will be roleblocked/mafia won't kill someone else

[RuiRui]

I think I'm going to be roleblocked, cop will die, Fumuki will be confirmed

If cop doesn't die and I also didn't neighborize anyone and I died, look at the Cop

[RuiRui]

Is mason even night cop a real claim?

That's a lot more believable than straight cop. WHY FAKECLAIM?

[RuiRui]

Fumuki listen to me

If you don't shoot tonight, you're going to be run up tomorrow

If you really think it wins the game: I'll check you while you try to kill. You're guaranteed clear that way

[RuiRui]

if Inferno flips mafia, please shoot at dave though

[RuiRui]

Jingle, can we do:

If Inferno is scum, shoot dave

If Inferno is town, shoot me

?

[RuiRui]

I don`t think anymore that GiF can be scum.

If he claimed mason even-night cop right away I would have believed him

[RuiRui]

Jingle, can we do:

If Inferno is scum, shoot dave

If Inferno is town, shoot me

?

Sure.

@Fumuki

I like this plan

VOTE: Inferno

[RuiRui]

Jingle, can we do:

If Inferno is scum, shoot dave

If Inferno is town, shoot me

?

Sure.

@Fumuki

I like this plan

VOTE: Inferno

It goes without saying but I can't neighborize, roleblock, and perform the factional kill all at the same time if I'm mafia

[RuiRui]

GuyInFreezer, can you vote Inferno?

[RuiRui]

What's wrong with the plan I proposed?

[RuiRui]

Jingle, can we do:

If Inferno is scum, shoot dave

If Inferno is town, shoot me

?

[RuiRui]

Who I target is directly related to who you target

[RuiRui]

I think it doesn`t really make a difference.

Then can we go with my plan?

[RuiRui]

Jingle is really paranoid about me being mafia, in other situations town likely wins the game through actions
Your idea isn't bad, but other people aren't going to like it, and it's going to result in you being lynched

[RuiRui]

Isn't my role claim pretty clearly true if you look at even night mason cop and then the other 2 loyal roles and the ascetic?

[RuiRui]

Stop killing me and I'll consider it.

I think it's too late for you to play survivalistic

[RuiRui]

Loyal vigilante isn't a mafia role though, so really you just have a gripe with the role

[RuiRui]

If they shoot you, they've confirmed themself as town

You understand that if there are two kills, they are confirmed as town because mafia won't have a vigilante? Your reason for voting them is because they said they're shooting you... thing is, that doesn't make them mafia. If you believe they're mafia, they're lying about shooting you..

[RuiRui]

So really it becomes a question of what you're arguing, because you're not saying the vigilante is fake, just that you don't like that it's targeting you, so you're voting back - that's playing in a survivalist manner, and not to a town win.

[RuiRui]

No, Skellen was very methodical, they capitalized everything correctly, even names, but not role names. But the v in vigilante was capitilized - that's not a coincidence.

Does Skellen really soft Vig without telling their team?

[RuiRui]

Tmck is in the hood

VOTE: Fumuki

[RuiRui]

I think the problem with this setup is that mafia had no way to stop me from getting 2 results

If I claimed my role on day 2, I could have been protected by the jailkeeper, after 1 town is in my neighborhood just killing me doesn't stop a second result, a miller kill is unlikely on night 1 by the mafia