Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Alisae]

@Tchill

The interaction between datisi and icon has left a terrible taste in my mouth with both of them.

If we lynch Luca and he flips town I will be extremely annoyed... Plus the idea that datisi AND iconeum will probably both still be in play at the beginning of D2 isn't a pleasant one to me. If one or both are town they've already proven they don't care voting with players they just believed were scum. That type makes for great scum TOOLS imo.

Thats cool.
I'm probably going to re-evaluate Datisi if Luca flips town.
Luca's vote and the speed of the actual wagon kind of just was too much for me

--

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

I subscribe to the school of thought that you don't have to have the game figured out early. Sometimes you just let it come to you. It's very difficult to disrupt the flow of RVS and out of comparison alone like I mentioned Luca was the only player that didn't make me... Alarmed so to speak.

Now I'm not one to try and catch scum D1 based off gut or feeling. That maybe a confidence issue or it maybe that observing the entire play list, weighing the pros and cons in terms of level headedness, ability to be manipulated by scum, who I would want in lylo if I were scum in a given game... Works better for me in the early game.

Icon and datisi are players if be trying to get to lylo if I were scum here.

I don't see how you can debate in a hypothetical where icon, Datisi, and Luca were all town.

Luca would be the most destructive to scum throughout an entire game.

There's also actual scum motivation in voting WITH someone who just pressured you to get a lynch through as datisi voted WITH icon to get at the time an inactive slots lynched push through.

I want to point out that, the desire to be right is important. You don't HAVE to be right, actually being right isn't important as long as you WANT to be right.
Also it feels good to be right.
So when you're saying that you don't really want to worry making sure your D1 solve is ACTUALLY right, thats fine as long as you are showing that you want to be right.
Again, you don't have to BE right, just want to be right.

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

What was substantially GOOD about the other players?

So far I've seen icon and datisi vote every which way a wagon was.

I actually didn't really read Icon's posts early. I figured if he was scum, he would be at his best then, and if he's town, we'll he's going to be at his best anyways, so I don't think I would have gotten anything out of his earlier posts, but a lot more out of his later posts and his interaction with Datisi.
I think Klick's early game is really good. I definitely feel like he was solving and I was able to see that every step of the way. I'm still seeing this desire to try to figure out people's motivations with his recent posting.
Billy just comes across as really town to me. He just, does.
Flippy is also someone who had an early game that I find it hard to actually focus on. But I think his response to the Kop wagon is good enough? I will say, it definitely leaves more to be desired.
When it comes to A50, I'm sold on him not really knowing what to do, I can see it happening completely, and I don't think that he would be like this if he was scum? I don't see why he would be, there's so much going on its easy to take any side, and I can see him being lost with a bunch of townreads and not really knowing where to go with them.
Datisi I'll agree with there, kinda does come across as how you're describing her, but I really don't think thats scum indicative. I feel like in her hunting and how she's reaching those answers come from a place where she wants to try and figure out motivations and also work with people she trusts. I can see why you think she's voting every which way, but I don't think thats scum indicative here.

--

And if you say "they're intentions were in the right place" that's not gonna hold up.

I noticed you said I was "just wrong" but not manipulative in your early read of me. That's fine I have no pride about my early game. I'd like to know where the others (not me or Luca) were particularly correct though.

I refered to you as "just wrong" because one thing you were saying about Datisi was that she was "pushing" kop and I really don't see how her vote was like a push and more like "I am going to work with Iconeum here"

anyhow I kind of hope that this helps?

[Alisae]

{Klick, Billy, Tchill} - I really think these are town
{Datisi, A50} - If I'm wrong somewhere, maybe it could be on one of these, but re-evaluating here is probably something I want to focus on when I have flips to work with. atm I don't think I'm wrong.
{Flippy} - Could be town but leaves room to be desired
{Luca} - Scum

I'm excluding Icon cuz cop claim I don't see any real reason to focus on that slot.

[Alisae]

With regards to my defence of myself being ‘scumclaims’, I’ve genuinely felt my frustration in this game boil over to the point where I’ve felt the need to bluntly point out certain things that mean I’m Town, and certainly mean I shouldn’t be the Day 1 Lynch. I actually cringe a little looking back at some of it, but it was born out of complete exasperation.

I’m starting to get the feeling that Datisi might be Town after all, and that at least one scum is sitting in the quieter half of the Town. I’m particularly looking at Flippy who has been conspicuous only by his absence since Alisae began her tunnel on me. I’m becoming paranoid that I might have been wrong about Tchill as well. I’m feeling almost resigned to the fact that I’m going to be today’s Lynch given how it’s shaping up, but I’m gonna try and leave some decent reads behind anyway.

do you have an a50 read you wanna share?

[Alisae]

Wait shit, did Luca townslip?
ohhhh how this game hurts me,,,

?

[Alisae]

and as for him wanting to be correct here?
I'm not quite sure why you need meta for that.

I'm not seeing the argument from 'not wanting to be right' to be honest. But I can see the thing you're arguing next to that, that he's far too concerned about how he's coming across in everything he's saying. Especially lately he has stopped scumhunting to take a lot of time explaining why you're wrong.

The problem is that I can see a plausible town motive for it (that being that he's just really stubborn and you needled him in just the right way to set him off). But from an overarching perspective I do think it's a scumtell.

I'll chat about Emperor/A50 later. I haven't really given any mental attention to most of A50's posts since they replaced in tbh, so it'll do me good to give them a proper read.

ok dude
i think ima just let you do ur thing because I'm decently satisfied with this

[Alisae]

Okay, fine, but your posts can also be taken as "Datisi's lynch, whatever she flips, would provide us lots of information. I won't state that information now. But it definitely would. Also she's already claimed so lynch her please."

you know
he isn't wrong?

[Alisae]

given how major your wagon was, your flip regardless of what it is will have an impact on the game.
A town flip makes me want to kill Luca more
a scumflip makes me re-evaluate practically everything but from Luca's POV, wanting to lynch me as soon as you flip scum isn't unreasonable

[Alisae]

With regards to my defence of myself being ‘scumclaims’, I’ve genuinely felt my frustration in this game boil over to the point where I’ve felt the need to bluntly point out certain things that mean I’m Town, and certainly mean I shouldn’t be the Day 1 Lynch. I actually cringe a little looking back at some of it, but it was born out of complete exasperation.

I’m starting to get the feeling that Datisi might be Town after all, and that at least one scum is sitting in the quieter half of the Town. I’m particularly looking at Flippy who has been conspicuous only by his absence since Alisae began her tunnel on me. I’m becoming paranoid that I might have been wrong about Tchill as well. I’m feeling almost resigned to the fact that I’m going to be today’s Lynch given how it’s shaping up, but I’m gonna try and leave some decent reads behind anyway.

do you have an a50 read you wanna share?

[Alisae]

tbh
maybe we should just flashwagon flippynips

[Alisae]

Luca's recent posting is actually something that doesn't make me scream "kill it"
its like not bad and I can see myself being wrong there

[Alisae]

Okay, fine, but your posts can also be taken as "Datisi's lynch, whatever she flips, would provide us lots of information. I won't state that information now. But it definitely would. Also she's already claimed so lynch her please."

I’ve already stated that standard D1 play would be to Lynch you here. I also just said I now think you might be Town, so that is a very strange way to take that post.

Is it really? Because judging by your view of standard play and that fact you're still voting me, it doesn't seem like you're that opposed to my lynch.

given how major your wagon was, your flip regardless of what it is will have an impact on the game.
A town flip makes me want to kill Luca more
a scumflip makes me re-evaluate practically everything but from Luca's POV, wanting to lynch me as soon as you flip scum isn't unreasonable

I wasn't saying he was wrong. I just wanted to hear him say what info would he take away from that.

okay but I don't see anything wrong with his answer?
He probably just sees you as a flip that gives a lot of information (And I agree with this) but hasn't exactly worked out what the takeaway would be and would probably want to sit down and try to figure it out. He probably just hasn't figured that out yet.

[Alisae]

the only thing that bothers me about flippynips is that I'm the only one that was kinda really speaking out against it except not really?

[Alisae]

like Flippynips just seems really consensus and I'm not sure I'm too happy about that

[Alisae]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeh
I'ma need Luca to give me something nuanced when it comes to the other slots for me to be okay unvoting him

[Alisae]

@luca

Why has your datisi read disappeared? Why Are you needing a better place to put it and why are you becoming paranoid about me?

@alisae

You never "returned serve" on my explanations for town Luca.

omg ur right I thought I asked you to expand what you liked from him but turns out i didn't
what was Luca's posting that you liked?

--

like Flippynips just seems really consensus and I'm not sure I'm too happy about that

The lynch should still be datisi.

What has flippynips done to change that?

uuuuuuuuuh
Datisi played more of the game and flippynips is kind of just there not really doing much?

[Alisae]

@alisae

What have the "other" done correctly early game? Because you said I was "just wrong" In your early reads of players.

I'd specifically like to know what datisi/Icon/Billy were doing correctly.

icon didn't read
Datisi was trying to figure out the game
Billy just seemed to be really town

--

Luca's recent posting is actually something that doesn't make me scream "kill it"
its like not bad and I can see myself being wrong there

Your stance on Luca changes as soon as luca takes a vote off datisi and puts it somewhere else.

I suggested flippynips and then Luca takes his vote off???????????
see, I said you're wrong because your mindset here is votes not what people are saying

[Alisae]

So 2 ppl are "just town" due to meta or gut (Billy and flippy) ... You didn't even read icon. Klick was "putting effort in the right place". A50 is town because of a lack of stances? Datisi is town because of WHY she's trying to solve things?

Didn't alarm you at all datisi and icon voted together after pushing each other? That wasn't odd at all?

no meta on Billy or Flippy
I didn't read Icon because I thought he would get progressively easier to read the deeper into the game we were
A50 Townreads everyone in a way that I find believable

[Alisae]

Didn't alarm you at all datisi and icon voted together after pushing each other? That wasn't odd at all?

@peanut gallery, specificly Klick
Does this bother you at all?
I'm not sure if I'm overeacting but the insistance of pushing this is
bothering me?

I'm not sure what to think of it because I feel like this is something scum pushes but I could definitely see this being posted by town!tchill

[Alisae]

i'm probably overthinking that

[Alisae]

@alisae

What have the "other" done correctly early game? Because you said I was "just wrong" In your early reads of players.

I'd specifically like to know what datisi/Icon/Billy were doing correctly.

icon didn't read
Datisi was trying to figure out the game
Billy just seemed to be really town

--

Luca's recent posting is actually something that doesn't make me scream "kill it"
its like not bad and I can see myself being wrong there

Your stance on Luca changes as soon as luca takes a vote off datisi and puts it somewhere else.

I suggested flippynips and then Luca takes his vote off???????????
see, I said you're wrong because your mindset here is votes not what people are saying

That's interesting. The votes and saying part. Voting is the only action ppl have rn. So in inclined to give voting the most respect of any content I see.

People can say whatever they want. Actions speak louder than words. I'll check up on the Luca unvote though.

okay people can say what they want.
Everything is WIFOM
its up to you to decipher it.

[Alisae]

Didn't alarm you at all datisi and icon voted together after pushing each other? That wasn't odd at all?

@peanut gallery, specificly Klick
Does this bother you at all?
I'm not sure if I'm overeacting but the insistance of pushing this is
bothering me?

I'm not sure what to think of it because I feel like this is something scum pushes but I could definitely see this being posted by town!tchill

It's due to the timing. Specifically because datisi was in danger of being lynched. Then votes with the person that pushed her. Votes an inactive slot and pushes for the inactive to be lynched before a replaceme in.

Yes I very much believe datisi is scum. I'd also love to hear how there's no scum motivation in that breakdown.

where did she actually "push" kop? Like, what qualifies her vote as a "push" I don't think we're seeing eye to eye here
also quote the breakdown again

[Alisae]

If you think you should play d1 the way you should play the rest of the game I just disagree with that idea entirely. Considering how abnormal d1 is compared to the rest of the game.

I actually play the game very different once flips start popping up and in general people start to slip up while town just keeps playing the game.
But like, going to the extent to say that what people are saying D1 doesn’t matter at all just because they can say anything they want??????? Yeah I’m not so sure about that dude

[Alisae]

Putting someone at L-2 isn't pushing for someone to be lynched?

Lol OK.

I really don’t think the intent there was to lynch

[Alisae]

If you think you should play d1 the way you should play the rest of the game I just disagree with that idea entirely. Considering how abnormal d1 is compared to the rest of the game.

I actually play the game very different once flips start popping up and in general people start to slip up while town just keeps playing the game.
But like, going to the extent to say that what people are saying D1 doesn’t matter at all just because they can say anything they want??????? Yeah I’m not so sure about that dude

It's matters what they say obviously. That's not what I'm getting at... Never mind. I'm just dropping that conversation entirely.

My, game theory shit when discussed with others just leads in circles on this site. Just keeping it to myself.

its cool just develop it as you see what works and what doesn’t
Taking something away from a game and the improvements along the way is what counts

[Alisae]

Putting someone at L-2 isn't pushing for someone to be lynched?

Lol OK.

I really don’t think the intent there was to lynch

Hard to sell me on they're just forming a read by putting someone at L-2.

I don’t think the intent to actually lynch that slot is there
But also I don’t see the point in running it up at all?

[Alisae]

@alisae I actually wouldn't mind a game theory conversation post game. Ik you're one of the more successful players here.

Also, exactly. Why even vote the inactive slot if you don't have intent to lynch.

It's more than likely because you intend to EVADE the lynch. Datisi was in the most danger of being lynched. Scum could have seemingly pushed through a datisi lynch and just been fine. Something happened and a kop lynch grew...

Wonder why.

make a thread in MD for it post game. What will probably be important is how you came to those conclusions game theory wise and the results you seen when you applied them. I know something that happens to me a lot is I see something that works and when you see something that works, its really easy to go “I want to apply that” and you keep on applying it in situations that it shouldn’t be applied just because of that one time it worked out

Also peer review is pretty important and not something I see at all (or do myself actually) mostly because
A. I don’t really see the mentality to want to do review a game after its completed
B. The “Peer” part is pretty important because its hard to actually review your own games and a peer is going to introduce some concept to you or show you something that you won’t find by yourself.

This stuff doesn’t even have to be applied to just mafia.
These ideas of improvement i’m talking about I learned mostly from League videos.

—

Onto the actual game tho, I get that Kop’s posts aren’t exactly amazing.
But it also did get to L-1 fairly quickly, just as quickly as Datisi got to L-1 tbh
I’m not exactly familar with what the votecount was prior to Kop going to L-1

I vaguely remember when Datisi posted that readlist that she was being pressured by Icon and Luca about it but don’t really remember what else was happening

[Alisae]

Yeah looking back at when Datisi posted that read list, She only had like 2 votes on her, you and Icon. She wasn’t really that close to lynch range until after the Kop wagon was formed.

[Alisae]

And allow me to point out (@Ali) that I think you probably misread 618. I didn't get the feeling he was mad at ou challenging his authority at all. Read it again, if you will.

Well, at least I still got a good eye for crumbs.

?
Also i miss ur old avatar

[Alisae]

And allow me to point out (@Ali) that I think you probably misread 618. I didn't get the feeling he was mad at ou challenging his authority at all. Read it again, if you will.

Well, at least I still got a good eye for crumbs.

o i see it

[Alisae]

i still miss ur old avatar tho

[Alisae]

Ok but ur other one was strictly better and I think it suits you way more then this one

[Alisae]

yeah there are about 10 pages of me doing me things to luca if you value your time don't read those

[Alisae]

what shocks me about A50 is that he's always correct about me but its almost always for the wrong reasons
it triggers me when I'm scum

[Alisae]

Intent ig

[Alisae]

Sorry Ali I'll be better tomorrow/poooossibly later tonight if the game is still in Day Phase, I haven't forgotten the stuff I need to respond to

I won’t drop hammers and if anyone drops hammers then fuck them they’ll die tomorrow
Just get it in thread before deadline and its good

[Alisae]

does that ever happen on scum?

no but no one wants to wagon luca so
/shrug

[Alisae]

Intent ig

mmm shit did it?

i want to flip you because if you flip town it’ll help me kill luca aka what is probably actual scum

[Alisae]

does that ever happen on scum?

no but no one wants to wagon luca so
/shrug

any way you want to give me the short reason on why Luca is a bad guy?

at this point I need flips to land a stronger push idunno i’m just not really feelin those posts towards you

[Alisae]

Like whatever ig my voice doesn’t matter because I’m going against consensus
I could just have garbage reads or i could be onto something but i feel like I’m being shit on and because I’m being shit on by multiple people that I’m onto something

[Alisae]

does that ever happen on scum?

Didn't my wagon go from 1 vote to L-1 in under a page?

oh god Datisi is town

you seem surprised

a bit, yes

thats not really a big shocker but ok

[Alisae]

I think it's a really interesting wagon on Nippleflips. There were 2 sides forming this game and now both sides are converging onto Nippleflips.

What does everyone make of this?

I think that the 'big fight' has a lot of town value in it if Nipples flips scum

towntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntown

[Alisae]

Like seriously if 2 sides are likely agreeing on something
That something is probably town

[Alisae]

Dw icon i’ll make sure u get a result

[Alisae]

Dw icon i’ll make sure u get a result

'You have been killed in the night. Here is the link to the deathtopic [REDACTED]'.

Is this the kind of result you have in mind?

yeah dude i want answers get me out

[Alisae]

Honestly team is probs luca/luv

[Alisae]

Shoot luca or datisi flippy
Those shots will both give plenty of info

[Alisae]

Shoot luca or datisi flippy
Those shots will both give plenty of info

So who gets lynched then?

too tired to think that one through but fair point

[Alisae]

Wait why would callforjudgment put a 2-shot vig in a micro

[Alisae]

I don’t feel like going through the open subforum to see how often he puts vigs in games
Someone else can do that
Gnite

[Alisae]

Yeet

[Alisae]

That wasn’t rly well thought out

[Alisae]

GNITE

[Alisae]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Alisae]

HAMMERS
VOTE: Flippy

[Alisae]

Coo
Coo

[Alisae]

I’m dumb

[Alisae]

Hehehehehehehehehe

[Alisae]

I don’t feel like reading luv posts

[Alisae]

All i said is that icon would probably not want to work with me and given what he said in thread + us being friends
Yeah he’s probably scum

MURDER MURDER
KILL KILL

[Alisae]

Murder murder
Kill kill
I don’t like
Playing mafia
Clapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclap

[Alisae]

Alisae AND datisi can't be alive going into d3.

yes I can

[Alisae]

Its called not getting lynched
Duh

[Alisae]

I am going to keep vomit posting and using this temperament

[Alisae]

I’m sorry dude i doubt anyone but flippy was being lynched today considering how much time we have left
Ik ur salty about the fact you couldn’t get your scumread lynched but its ok it happens

[Alisae]

Actually my scumgame is very different from my towngame
I expose myself in other ways that are out of my control

But sure dude
Whatever you say

[Alisae]

Shit play from all sides tbh

[Alisae]

Klick was alright tho

[Alisae]

HELL YEAH LUCA LOST.

HAHAHAHAHA

[Alisae]

tbh I thought you were going to be a lot worse then I expected, but I wanted to play with Datisi atleast once before I never got the chance to ever again considering her life.
I would give hydraing with you a shot tbh

[Alisae]

I even gave you people a chart to show that we needed to kill the lurkers (myself I closed).

yeah how you weren't turbo lynched for that I uuuuuuuuuh
kiiiiiiiiiiinda
don't get

[Alisae]

I was scumreading Tchill pretty much all game (then became certain when he claimed a role that I knew, as the setup designer, wasn't there). So the flips were quite a surprise.
N3 bodyguard would have been balanced in this setup, but in practice I'm unlikely to have actually thought of it (note to self: mix up my designmeta a bit more).
Even-night tracker would have been townsided (I was worried that the setup was townsided as it is).

like coj, sure it may be balanced
but is a mod going to be big brain enough to put something like that in the game.
You didn't think of it.
I don't think most mods will think of it.

please don't encourage design like that.
Just don't.

[Alisae]

chemist just release the dead pt lmao

[Alisae]

>we should massclaim
> I’m a night 3 bodyguard. If my hunch is correct we have a certain number of other weak PRs possibly gated by a specific night. I think we can create great POE pools that makes this game super easy

Iconeum goes next.

[Alisae]

tbh I thought you were going to be a lot worse then I expected, but I wanted to play with Datisi atleast once before I never got the chance to ever again considering her life.
I would give hydraing with you a shot tbh

Thanks for the backhanded compliment lol. I'd imagine my rep on site isn't too great. I'm fine with my play when I'm not emotionally motivated though.

Icon is the sole reason I fake claimed. "fuck yall" is the moment I decided to do it. I probably never will again. Being TOXIC was kinda fun though.

(I'd be SO mad if luca hadn't lost btw, but ik I'd be to blame)

I can't BELIEVE Luca was town lol. I'm so happy.

Luca's d2 was pretty good I think.

[Alisae]

chemist just release the dead pt lmao

I thought I did?

Lemme double-check that I did it right b/c I'm really bad with PT perms

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=80568

[Alisae]

u should have been turbo lynched for that I stg

[Alisae]

HELL YEAH LUCA LOST.

either way I can respect this

[Alisae]

I can respect the urge to just
want another player to lose.

[Alisae]

Sorry I replaced out. Ali kinda overwhelmed me with the posts early on. I have to admit I'm surprised how much credit those tests bought me.

yeah you played well sorry I overwhelmed you you were fun tho

[Alisae]

also you silly Turkey I said I would and I did
may not be POTY but there you go.

[Alisae]

Ali I've never haydra'd before I may take you up on that.

discord in my sig
hit me up

[Alisae]

join the speakeasy part of the site
User Control Panel -> usergroups -> request to join Speakeasy Inhabitants

[Alisae]

tchill's play was definitely towny imo so I'm not sure what the surprise there was.

[Alisae]

tchill's play was definitely towny imo so I'm not sure what the surprise there was.

I had a belief that Town!Tchill wouldn’t hard-TR Gobble based on his claim

okay but like
everyone else did during D2

[Alisae]

unlucky dude, it happens
just play better

[Alisae]

Lmao. The scum I fake guiltied "don't fake guilty"

and this is for you

[Alisae]

At work atm but have some free time so I’ll write a few notes on players this game.

wow because we care about what you have to say about us!

[Alisae]

what is this a fuckin newbie game

[Alisae]

Gobble: your entrance was really good and won you the game.

dude honestly
you wrote this
unironically

I rly don't care about what you have to say about me

[Alisae]

well Luca
here is my advice to you

just play better

[Alisae]

Please stop talking about me like I'm going to die

you are going to die

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

hi flippy

[Alisae]

This little bitch is calling 500+ posts inactive?

LMAO
I think it comes from the miscommunication of "he doesn't know you're in EU" honestly.
Now, I'm not sure how that miscommunication happens
buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut
it can???????????

[Alisae]

Also, how was I inactive this game?

oh wait
you aren't teh one being called inactive.

[Alisae]

u weren't inactive lol

[Alisae]

hi flippy