I don't see what's so odd about it? I mean flippy gave you already kind of the obvious answer (mainly his 2.). The only thing he could have commented on was the beginning of the Garmr/Norwegianboy interaction. I understand you are scumreading the latter also for his opening, so if voting elsewhere is odd wouldn't it be more interesting to get to know why flippy decided to not comment/vote there?
I get your stance on this, I struggle with some things on this site too that just seem to be the general consensus here. Unfortunately you have to roll with it.In post 27, NorwegianboyEE wrote:RVS votes don't matter for jack ****. That's what i believe, i'm just trying to follow the culture around these parts since some of the people here actually seem to believe that RVS votes matter. Yet now Profii is claiming my vote puts us out of RVS? Scummy.
Not a fan of this. I dislike how you are obviously not feeling good about Norwegianboy yet you are hesitant to increase the pressure on him with not voting him?In post 35, Billy Pilgrim wrote: Not a fan of Norweigenboy's defensive tone, and definitely not a fan that he unvoted when getting pressure for voting.
I can relate with that as I am also usually pretty conservative with my vote. I wouldn't have minded your post much to begin with, I tend to take a close look at people's wording and what mainly pinged me about your post back then was you emphasizing your stance about Norwegianboy with "definitely" which gave me the impression that you strongly disliked Norwegianboy backing off with his vote so it looked odd to me. I can dig your reply, particularly #46 because I agree with that observation.In post 45, Billy Pilgrim wrote: Fair enough. I wait a bit before casting a vote. I get why you read this as off, but it's where I'm at now with how I want to play D1.
Ok, many have already pointed out why this isn't making sense. Instead I am interested in what motivation you see in Billy abusing V/LA here? He wasn't really in a bad spot that avoiding people would have been necessary, the only pressure he got came from me with my vote, which even came after he announced his V/LA, and he responded to it during his V/LA.In post 63, Kraeg wrote:Game is already out of RVS after a few posts 'cause of Norwegian.
Also, I'm getting a bad feeling about Billy's V/LA. I've been a player of this game for like years already and I've seen mafia abuse the V/LA as an excuse to avoid everyone. I'm not a big fan of people going on V/LAs.
I get your thought process here, but you have to walk me through it for a bit. Why don't you think it could have come from scum that is afraid of getting into focus with starting an early wagon considering Billy's hesitant attitude?In post 77, profii wrote:
If you are scum and someone unvotes due to pressure, i dont think you out that someone malleable to the entire group - i think you just say to yourself / the scum PT - look guys, if we pressure this guy he will do this or that, use that for later.
so i actually think this comes across as towny without meaning to.
So sassy~In post 82, Emperor flippyNips wrote: I think my 3 is the most important tbh
Talk to me about this. I interpreted #46 that you kind of have kind come around Norwegianboy yet he still seems to be your scumlean? Is it because you (seem to) disagree with him about Kraeg?In post 92, Billy Pilgrim wrote: Scum lean Norwegian
I am not going to parrot Garmr here as I agree with him regarding you for the most part. What interests me would be if your perception of my vote influenced your read on Billy's posts/behaviour which I was referring to back then as you seemingly agreed with me there? I phrased it maybe awkwardly, but I get profii's thought process as he came to another conclusion, I don't get how you got there though.In post 96, Luca Blight wrote: I know I said her opening was decent in 94, but looking back it almost seems a little too 'polished', so I'm gonna sheep Profii on this one.
Sure. As if I would say no to a request that would allow me to go wall mode.In post 178, profii wrote:I'd like to see those 5 players take a stance on Luca vs Garmr and I will accept any of SvS, SvT, TvT as long as it comes with a rationale
I am not too good with these pre-flip team associations, but I don't get why you stick these two together? (sure, they are both your scumreads) Particularly if your first tendency is that is a bit unlikely?In post 186, Mohab500 wrote: I haven't really delved into the possibility of a Garmr + Kraeg scum team, on the surface from what I remember it looks a bit unlikely but not impossible.
Ah, I see. Too bad, if it would have been the case it could have been a slight town indication with seeking that 1v1 (and always coming back).In post 221, Garmr wrote: First game together unless Luca was on a alt I don't know.
Yeah nevermind, I forgot how to English and misread your sentence. It makes sense how you originally said it.In post 242, Mohab500 wrote: I am not sure if I missed something regarding this question; I am sticking these two together because they're my current scumreads. I think it's unlikely they're both scum together. I am just pointing out my thoughts on them for everybody to see.
What. o.oIn post 260, Emperor flippyNips wrote:Luca just reads scum to me idk why. could be ..., his face.
Why do you think did Mohab move away from the Garmr wagon back to you when the Garmr wagon just gained some momentum with three votes, just after your vote? Particularly if you consider that there always was the chance that Luca could move back putting Garmr up to L-1.In post 270, Kraeg wrote: Mohab is a sheep. Voted for me at first when people are saying I'm aggro, then jumped to Garmr when there was a wagon, then switched back to me now that the wagon is on me.
My thoughts exactly. The more people start to make up any pre-flip associations regarding Kraeg the more I want to flip him.In post 311, Garmr wrote:I find it weird people are trying to link other kreag as scum before the flip. I intend to hammer but I'm waiting for a bit more Emperor posts and a roleclaim.
I rolled scum twice. Once in the newbie queue and once in the normal. Although I wouldn't count the latter as both games were back to back and I was burned out from the former game and had to replace out in the normal game where I was playing pretty lackluster anyway.In post 291, Emperor flippyNips wrote: yahh you feel me!
also quick question, how many times have you been scum ?
I understand that your reads after catching up might have changed since #281. Still in that post you were null, likely town on Mohab. What changed that impression for you? Just because you hardly remembering anything about Mohab?In post 294, Emperor flippyNips wrote: im leaning a mohab+Kraeg team
No one should vote Kraeg up to L-1, because there is always someone who can't keep it in his pants and quickhammer and we shouldn't end the day before we got more from flippy and Luca. Also consider that scum!Kraeg can always self-hammer and end the day once he is up to L-1. Considering his play since the claim and the general perception of Garmr's counterclaim he is probably aware that he is done for.In post 417, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Ok I counted Garmr, Mohab, and Norwegian on Kraeg. That's L-2. No one else should vote yet until we have some discussion on the claim and CC. And I want Kraeg to weigh in on Garmr as well.
If it's not Garmr's point what made you move back to Kraeg then? Your unvote seemed rather "dutiful" than doing it because you believed him. What was your thought process on unvoting and returning your vote then?In post 388, Mohab500 wrote:Actually, it is related. I got confused, sorry. But it's not really about his point being correct.
So you assume scum was never trying to save Kraeg with a last effort after his claim and the votes are just a last distancing attempt? I can get that thought by Kraeg's reaction to Mohab changing from your wagon to Kraeg in #270, but why do you think they both decide to push you just for Mohab changing immediately back to Kraeg?In post 392, Garmr wrote:Question does Kreag and mohab seem like cheap scum theatre?
What the fuck. But you are aware that Garmr is counterclaiming Kraeg? And that Garmr even pushed Kraeg into that claim?In post 459, Mohab500 wrote: Anyways, I am still up for a Kraeg lynch, hopefully followed by Garmr. This is my main game.
I think my stance on Kraeg/Garmr is pretty clear, I am only waiting if flippy and Luca have nothing else to say and it's the general consensus to see the Kraeg lynch through. Call it intent to vote once we are all ready to move on. This day has peaked at this point anyway.In post 466, Billy Pilgrim wrote: Skellen should weigh in here on whether she's comfortable with this Lynch.
Also, still waiting to hear whether either of you have modifiers in your role. I went back through approved setups to see whether there were any with jailkeepers and roleblockers both on the town side. So I'd like to hear an answer to that question.
Actually profii was showing willingness to compromise on Mohab to subject to his answer on the question why Garmr/Krag scumteam. Could have been Mohab thought of it as soft intent. That would probably indicate red flip.In post 532, Luca Blight wrote:It would be really odd timing to self-hammer as scum when he could have jumped on Garmr’s fake-claim or continued pushing Kraeg.
Although I’d have expected a little more frustrated shit-posting from town post-hammer, so perhaps there is a glimmer of hope.
More simply - if the player has to submit an action to the moderator, a Roleblocker can block it.
Town
Generally, Roleblockers are intended to try to stop the Night-kill, or stop scum power roles in situations where they are known.
Frankly yes, although I feel iffy with challenging an (now) not counterclaimed roleclaim.In post 552, profii wrote: So does Skellen still consider Kraeg potential scum here
This was actually a point I already disagreed about last day, but didn't had the time to address to. So walk me through this. I think that view might be possible, but is also too one-dimensional, because it isn't really considering the context of the counterclaim situation. Kraeg was almost a universal scumread while Garmr, who temporarily counterclaimed, was far more townread with some exceptions. Now tell me how often in 10 of 10 cases would Garmr win this 1v1 over Kraeg if Kraeg takes Garmr head on? Trying to come up with the explanation that both roles would be possible is probably the only slim chance that scum!Kraeg had to get out of it. To be fair, I am looking at this with my semi-newb point of view, because so far everytime there were similar or the exactly the same roles in a game (Fruit Vendors and informed as example) they always were one town and one scum, so imo the first reaction to a similar role (particularly such a powerful role) might be that it's more likely scum.In post 551, profii wrote:...however...
I think Garmrs point about not contesting the roles probably makes Kraeg more towny -
I see, that explanation looks good enough for me. I wasn't sure where to put you regarding the Mohab wagon as I tend to consider people part of the wagon when they show intent to move there, especially if everything gets cut off with something surprising like that self-hammer. I was wondering if the Mohab wagon was actively or passively scumdriven (post-claims), but everytime I look at it to draw some conclusions out of it everything leads back to the question what Kraeg's alignment is. This lynch feels kind of inevitable.In post 584, profii wrote: I couldn't really make head nor tail or garmr vs kraeg and I was probably scared of lynching the 1 PR between them, so I was kinda hoping mohab said something really scummy about kraeg/garmr to settle my mind that everyone else was right and my meta check was not as strong a reason to not vote compared to everyone on the wagons reason to vote
So a bit compromise and a bit avoiding risk of PR loss I guess but if he had said something logical I would have restrained and defended it too i guess
Eh, but what can I do~. The ball is in Kraeg's court.In post 599, profii wrote:If you are pocketing me and letting town mislynch kraeg by apathetically letting us head towards it i will be quite unhappy, Skellen
In post 615, Garmr wrote: oh that's why you believed in Lucas case on me day 1 despite it being shit. I can buy that.
This is assuming he is a Roleblocker to begin with. For all we know he could be a Goon that is fakeclaiming Roleblocker for pure survival, although admittedly the choice is odd. The very fact that he was refusing to out his rb target from N1 pre-massclaim rather indicates that he is lying, because there could have been the risk that he actually picks a PR that could immediately disprove him. Like I don't see why he wouldn't out his N1 target, it wouldn't confirm anything, but it wouldn't do any harm either.In post 633, profii wrote: It makes no sense for scum to have a RB with no other PRs, nothing for them to block and it seems unfair that they have a misleading PR so I'm going back to my original theory that too many people wanted a Kraeg lynch day 1
Ah cool, since when got the newbie queue new setups? But yeah, it's kind of interesting, although I don't get the idea behind the latter constellation. However these new setups are from the same guy as this game's setup. That would rather indicate that a Town Roleblocker seems very unlikely here, athough I don't necessarily think we are in the same setup.In post 634, Billy Pilgrim wrote: Particularly since 2 Masons is in the new newbie 2d3 setup and balanced with both 2 goons and a Mafia RB.
In post 630, Jackal711 wrote: Kraeg (2) - profii, Billy Pilgrim
With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.
In post 631, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Nevermind, it's L-3.
Billy's adventures in the wonderful world of numbers.
I am not sure I get you right here, but aren't you assuming that scum would know the setup then? That aside this looks super risky, particularly if Kraeg would have gotten hammered before Garmr could have retracted his claim and well, obviously would have survived the night.In post 638, Billy Pilgrim wrote: That's definitely a possibility. And yes, it ismechanical, but not entirely. If we're in A3, it would explain why Garmr moved from hard defending Kraeg early D1 to literally running a fakeclaim Gambit to get him lynched. If you remember, Kraeg's roleblocker claim was out there for a while before Garmr fakeclaimed. So he could have been pretty sure that no one else was going to fakeclaim. So it could have been a bussing Gambit that he ran when it looked like Kraeg was going down.mostly
Ok, here kicks the PTSD in. Which game are you referring to? I have seen this in another game with scum!Vorkuta slipping with exact the same thing before, however there he was handing out a townread based on wrong meta, while flippy isn't really handing out a read here. But I really would like it if flippy can explain how he meant that post in regards to Billy.In post 683, Billy Pilgrim wrote: Also, Emperor saying:is pretty odd, because he and I only played one game together, which I can finally talk about since it's over. In that game I passed two "tests," for which I got heavily read as town. Except I was scum.I think i need to go back over BIlly/skellen before i come to a decision. Cos I haven’t been able to read them all game & in most games I’ve played with them they are pretty obvi town to me.
So what are you talking about unless you were setting up to vote me?
Ok, but I mean you pointed already out by yourself that he didn't do it with profii either which alone shows that this can only get taken with a grain of salt.In post 690, Billy Pilgrim wrote: But Skellen again not commenting on the fact that Kraeg shaded virtually everyone but her and Profii after I pointed it out makes me feel like I might be onto something there.
He was scumreading both of you though and he was pretty pursuing while doing so as we saw with Kraeg, because ultimately he always came back to his scumread. And he would have gotten some town cred with a Kraeg flip. And he literally had you as next suspect in case of a scum!Kraeg flip. I doubt scum!you would keep him around till lylo.In post 691, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Also, I doubt this will persuade anyone, but I 100% would not kill Norwegian N1. In fact it's unlikely that I NK him at all. I want him in LYLO with me as scum. Turns out his focus on Kraeg was right, but the guy seemed to have problems getting off anyone that scumread him. That's an asset for scum in LYLO.
Yes, due to PoE. I have been townreading Garmr for most of this game and I feel good with that. Like I see the scumreads on him which mostly seem to be build around his fakeclaim, but I am rather taking the approach of basic logic regarding his fakeclaim that makes me think Garmr's play comes from town than from scum.In post 703, Billy Pilgrim wrote: @Skellen - it sounds like you were gearing up for Flippy if it's not me. Is that your second bet?
I knew after #729 that you have come to my ISO.In post 731, Emperor flippyNips wrote:I haven’t read skellen full iso but I’ve read enough to where i think i can clear her.
@skellen~ I might still want to question you a bit.
Like, how many games have you & billy played together?
