Mini Normal 2109 | Newbie Quotes II: Newb Boogaloo (Day 3)

[Joey_]

Hola

[Joey_]

falalalal

I don't like alim's vote

lolwagons suck

lalalalaaaaa~~~

Why?

[Joey_]

This wagon is

Joey say something interesting

Like soon

no u

[Joey_]

But seriously though somebody needs to dayvig somebody

why so eager for a murder??

[Joey_]

....kinda the point of the game???

VOTE: Joey

I don't understand this vote.

Joey be acting like he wants to extend day one artificially

fucking lmao, you twist my words more than my mother in law

[Joey_]

Also the point of the game is not "murder" but "correct murder"

[Joey_]

lol this table

[Joey_]

I ... didn’t expect this reaction. This is my first non-newbie game, and the first time I’ve participated in RVS. I was under the assumption you can bite anyone, and nothing is taken seriously in this stage. It appears I was wrong.

UNVOTE:

Well tell us... Is you a newbie scummy or a newbie towny? You're answer is always 100% right or wrong here... Choose wisely.

Town. It doesn’t matter to make this known, because the scum know everyone’s alignments anyway, unless there’s a third party in this game.

Aight den.

I'll believe you for now.

UNVOTE:

moving on

VOTE: jake

Because you ain't posted yet.

Why would you vote for someone who hasn't posted? its a trick q btw

[Joey_]

Lil Uzi Vert hasn’t posted yet either.
VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Same q to you, why would you vote someone who hasn't posted?

[Joey_]

I ... didn’t expect this reaction. This is my first non-newbie game, and the first time I’ve participated in RVS. I was under the assumption you can bite anyone, and nothing is taken seriously in this stage. It appears I was wrong.

UNVOTE:

Well tell us... Is you a newbie scummy or a newbie towny? You're answer is always 100% right or wrong here... Choose wisely.

Town. It doesn’t matter to make this known, because the scum know everyone’s alignments anyway, unless there’s a third party in this game.

why would you answer if it doesn't matter

[Joey_]

I will out that soon since hes on the rope block, but jake kinda t told in his first 3 posts

[Joey_]

I reread seriously, I really don't think jake is mefia, the "cases" are pretty unsubstantial

The monkey has probably the worst content at face value; he shades half the table at every opportunity, incoherent (misreps), hypocritical (calls ppl out for lack of content irrc, produces nothing of value) and overall thinks he's a cool kid while he's not. The only thing going for them is that they're actually being consistent in having bad content, which means it could be better explained by personality than alignement.

I think the jake/invis interaction is most likely TvsT, sue me

[Joey_]

To be fair, monkey's d5 is his best and its arguably around the first concrete wagon where people tends to alignement tell, shrugs

[Joey_]

rather than rvs, thats what i meant. whatever i am tired

[Joey_]

dude rb, why does it feels we played togerther recently, were you alt stalking me?

[Joey_]

Also, boy your scum games must suffer because you are playing like an open book

[Joey_]

rb you should calm down a bit, honestly you are keeping scum from posting

[Joey_]

I'm inclined to think that invis vs jake is actually SvS. That's pretty rare I must say, but it seems like some light bussing gone wrong.

thats a disgusting read and goes against your whole slip thought process and basically whatever you are doing rn still vote there

[Joey_]

still voting there*

[Joey_]

VOTE: ark selflessly promoting a counter wagon

I think dolly towntold with her rxn to wake's refusal to accept the claim offer. She even bringed the fact that she gained an obv town read out of it again a page or so after, which means she most likely said the truth

I think the inv slip thing is ridiculous, i am also an avid slip reader and if anything, sausa much more likely slipd than inv ever did this game since town has no reasons whatsoever to think about counter-claims D1 in a closed setup, its not an available thought to town. And guess what, still too weak of a slip for me to lynch solely on

Spoiler:

A joke claim is just a bad excuse for when you can’t think of a way to justify what was said. It’s never a good idea to counter-claim.

EBWOP never a good idea to joke claim. I diidn’t mean counter-claim.

[Joey_]

FTR

I have been doing light poe d1 for years now with pretty good accuracy and boy, does Ark fills that role in this game.

4 posts ✔
Self-conscious ✔
Nothing game related ✔
Awkward RVS banter ✔
Weak slot but no one mentions them ✔

[Joey_]

Also, boy your scum games must suffer because you are playing like an open book

you'd be surprised at the range of my play

only two games i saw you were pretty obvious

[Joey_]

I mean, in comparison to whatever you are doing this game

[Joey_]

and no i don't have any recollection of you as a player joey so i don't think we've played together recently

I was refering to

the only reliable read on joey is that he's capable of identifying things that aren't logically consistent

this isn't an alignment tell, it's a player tell

if you're analytical, you're analytical and you can ask pertinent questions and be brazen about it as either alignment

It was weird because It's something i have been told in my last 2 games on site, i assumed you used an alt and was there

Also i never meant to diss your competence as a scum player, i think you are def above average and you saved my ass at least once in the past

[Joey_]

I'm inclined to think that invis vs jake is actually SvS. That's pretty rare I must say, but it seems like some light bussing gone wrong.

thats a disgusting read and goes against your whole slip thought process and basically whatever you are doing rn still vote there

I have 0 idea what you just said. Can you reword

rb you should calm down a bit, honestly you are keeping scum from posting

hm....

i have been posting after work so I am tired and it's harder for me to articulate my ideas

The premise of your slip is that inv knew before hand that jake was town, so its a TMI SvsT slip. You can't push the slip wagon while calling both mafia, that was my point

[Joey_]

at this point i can't read saus apart from "i am hugely worried about how i'm perceived" but they seem to think that's what the game is actually about for both alignments

don't know how to interpret it

saus has been giving me vibes of open wolfing troll veteran or a genuine new player who flipped town but is being extremely self-conscious (trait I historically associate much more w/ scum than town)

[Joey_]

I am pretty sure he's already well done

[Joey_]

uh oh

[Joey_]

Thats some weak battle theme game monkey

[Joey_]

Also the hyper buddy from Joey

lol what was buddying in any of my post

[Joey_]

I'm TRing Joey_.
Just ISO him, it speaks for itself.

But I don't really agree with your counterwagon. Did you see my post 258?
Also, after you put a vote on Arkias, you seem to just have forgotten about it

oh well, to be fair, in the last 48 hours post-vote I worked about 35 hours of those & i didn't really get what i wanted out of the vote

[Joey_]

And I did see your 258, the whole point of a light poe is exactly that.. it's a light read based on light tells

[Joey_]

PEDIT: My Joey post was not in response to you asking me to join the wagon btw.

Since we cleared up that SvS and slip issue, I'm honestly not sure about my invis read to begin with.

this post existing just proves that the inv wagon is pretty terrible.

You claimed a slip, at least a few 2-3 slots took it at face value and voted with you. Then you went against your read with another read (SvsS), got called out on the incoherence and then you are second-guessing. Thats read progression and a transparent thought process

But why is this wagon is still sticking do you think? its a trick q

[Joey_]

at this point i can't read saus apart from "i am hugely worried about how i'm perceived" but they seem to think that's what the game is actually about for both alignments

don't know how to interpret it

saus has been giving me vibes of open wolfing troll veteran or a genuine new player who flipped town but is being extremely self-conscious (trait I historically associate much more w/ scum than town)

It would make sense for you to perceive it as scum. If you look back at my previous games, you’ll see I’ve only ever played scum before, never town, so I apologise if my priorities are slightly wrong.

alright, so does anyone in this game jump out as you as being likely scummy or towny saus?

I think Jake the Wolfie is town. I know some people disagree, but he’s playing very similar to the last game I had with him when he was town. I know meta arguments aren’t great, but I think if you’ll look at newbie game 1966 you’ll see what I mean.

I don’t like the look of Dolly. Even if the mason claim was a joke, it wasn’t a good one, and only served to make people suspicious of her. Not a good play for scum or town. This alone isn’t good enough for a lynch in further consideration, however. UNVOTE: Dolly Parton

Kcdaspot isn’t great either. He frequently says things without justifying them (see 146, 52 (which is followed by the vague 57) and 290 (why exactly is it null? Can we have an explanation?) for examples). However, this isn’t scum-indicative by itself.

I think Invisible’s slip is worth following through. Invisible also doesn’t seem to try to make himself look townish to other players either. He mocks Kcdaspot’s style of writing in 123. However, like Kcdaspot (and Dolly), he fails to provide reasoning for some of his posts.

I think that currently, the best thing to do is to follow through with Invisible’s slip and lynch him, though this could change later depending on what happens.

VOTE: Invisible

Like, this is the perfect exemple to show my point in my last post. Its an overly justifying and posturizing post with no actual content where he sheeps a read he doesn't have. Saus even takes the time to explain a read on 3-4 slots, yet the most important part of his post should've been where he places his vote. All he does about that is claim that the slip is "worth following through" and that Inv is basically is not playing in an agreeable way

Saus, can you explain me the slip you are read to lynch someone for?

[Joey_]

ready*

[Joey_]

Firstly, I would like to say that nothing is ever “over-justifiable”. An argument for why you think something is always better than not having one. To say mafia, a game about convincing people to lynch scum, can have opportunities to over-justify, is to say that mafia is a game about guessing, rather than logic. If an argument can be expressed logically, an intelligent person will agree. By not justifying an argument, you give no reason for anyone to agree. Therefore, it is always better to explain an argument.

In answer to your question, I would say it is simply because of the slip. Nobody else appears more scummy than that slip to me, and since you should vote who you think is most scummy (unless you have ulterior motives) I voted him.
In addition, my vote is not just a vote, but a statement. It tells Invisible that there are people who suspect him, which is good for neither town or mafia. By voting him, I ensure that he will provide a reason for why he is town. We can then judge his reason to see if it makes sense or not, and then work from there. If he has a good reason, or someone else is seeming more scummy, my vote will change. However, his reason may contradict his earlier statements, or be a scumtell or a slip, which can prove that he is scum, or at least worthy of a D1 lynch.
This is why I voted Invisible, and will continue to do so until he changes my opinion or someone else seems more scummy.

Over-justifying is a thing, it's often seen when people are self-conscious about their stances (posturizing) so they feel compelled to explain themselves as if they are very aware their stance is questionnable, its a common s trait

You didn't answer my question. Can you explain the slip? why is it a slip

[Joey_]

And I did see your 258, the whole point of a light poe is exactly that.. it's a light read based on light tells

do you mean light fos? poe meas process of elimination.

i mean light poe, as trying to find mafia while using weak/gut reads on the rest of the town, it's nothing substantial but it's pretty accurate

[Joey_]

at this point i can't read saus apart from "i am hugely worried about how i'm perceived" but they seem to think that's what the game is actually about for both alignments

don't know how to interpret it

saus has been giving me vibes of open wolfing troll veteran or a genuine new player who flipped town but is being extremely self-conscious (trait I historically associate much more w/ scum than town)

It would make sense for you to perceive it as scum. If you look back at my previous games, you’ll see I’ve only ever played scum before, never town, so I apologise if my priorities are slightly wrong.

alright, so does anyone in this game jump out as you as being likely scummy or towny saus?

I think Jake the Wolfie is town. I know some people disagree, but he’s playing very similar to the last game I had with him when he was town. I know meta arguments aren’t great, but I think if you’ll look at newbie game 1966 you’ll see what I mean.

I don’t like the look of Dolly. Even if the mason claim was a joke, it wasn’t a good one, and only served to make people suspicious of her. Not a good play for scum or town. This alone isn’t good enough for a lynch in further consideration, however. UNVOTE: Dolly Parton

Kcdaspot isn’t great either. He frequently says things without justifying them (see 146, 52 (which is followed by the vague 57) and 290 (why exactly is it null? Can we have an explanation?) for examples). However, this isn’t scum-indicative by itself.

I think Invisible’s slip is worth following through. Invisible also doesn’t seem to try to make himself look townish to other players either. He mocks Kcdaspot’s style of writing in 123. However, like Kcdaspot (and Dolly), he fails to provide reasoning for some of his posts.

I think that currently, the best thing to do is to follow through with Invisible’s slip and lynch him, though this could change later depending on what happens.

VOTE: Invisible

you don't seem to really believe in this lynch.

I don’t quite understand what you mean. Why would I vote for it if I didn’t believe it was the best choice?

Thats circular logic, you can't say you believe in your vote because you voted them

[Joey_]

Well, I think Tris is town. RB is probably town too.

Between the Jake and Invis thing I mentioned earlier, I can't really see either of them being scum.

So, for now,

VOTE: unvote

I'm going to give the thread another read and try to get some analysis going on.

Also, I like that pirate gif. It reminds me of Monkey Island.

Why can't you see any of jake and inv as mefia?

[Joey_]

@saus

[Joey_]

@saus

This isn’t what I said. I voted Invisible because of the slip, not because I believe in the lynch. I believe in the lynch because I voted her. The original vote stems not from believing in the lynch, but from the scumminess of the slip.

Of course it's not exactly what you said, but it's what your answer heavily implies, basically dodging the question

Your were told "you don't seem to really believe in this lynch".
I am not tris, but I am going to assume that she's saying that the way you use the slip argument to justify your vote, seems ungenuine as if you didn't believe it yourself. Btw I shared that feeling when i said you were voting for a read you didn't have yourself.

You answered "Why would I vote for it if I didn’t believe it was the best choice?". You can rephrase your answer as "I believe it's the best choice of a lynch because I am voting him"
Basically, you are deflecting the whole point about you using the slip to push a vote, twice over considering I already asked you to explain the slip and you dodged it.

You have a bad habit of not answering questions

I will ask for a third time
Can you explain me what is inv's slip and what is the "scumminess of the slip"?

[Joey_]

Well, I think Tris is town. RB is probably town too.

Between the Jake and Invis thing I mentioned earlier, I can't really see either of them being scum.

So, for now,

VOTE: unvote

I'm going to give the thread another read and try to get some analysis going on.

Also, I like that pirate gif. It reminds me of Monkey Island.

Well, I think Tris is town. RB is probably town too.

Between the Jake and Invis thing I mentioned earlier, I can't really see either of them being scum.

So, for now,

VOTE: unvote

I'm going to give the thread another read and try to get some analysis going on.

Also, I like that pirate gif. It reminds me of Monkey Island.

Why can't you see any of jake and inv as mefia?

I need to ask moving forward,

is the accepted meta doing posts per thing you're responding too, or doing big wall texts? Historically, I've done wall texts, but it also gives me an incredibly low post count -- but reading Ethos/Dolly/Tris doing it, makes me wonder if I'm playing this wrong?

Thanks

Ark has done nothing of value since the start of the game, after my vote she posted a single post (254) with what looks like game content, but it's pretty darn shallow. There's no unique thought process or reads that comes from a genuine town pov or what not.

Then she posted (443), outing 4 reads and not a single piece of informations about why. This is not inherently AI but it just shows that there's no transparent thought process she could be read on.
Then she claims

"I'm going to give the thread another read and try to get some analysis going on."

and that's obviously a fucking lie because 443 is pure garbage with not an ounce of value. I also asked a question (403) which she didn't aknowledge at all. If she really was trying to reread the game and has some "analysis going on" she most likely would've seen my question and remembered to answer it.

This looks much more like she caught the classic scumitis, where people dislike playing as scum and just afk/deflect qs/lies about making content. The slot is just extremely fucking scummy

[Joey_]

Then she posted (402)**

[Joey_]

BTW to anyone who actually cares, reading Ark's games shows a good portrait of what player she can be

[Joey_]

@ark, great post and basically what I was waiting for, so thank you for that

@saus good post too, i think you overestimated how transparent you think you were being by voting inv, it def looked like you didn't even had a clue about what was the slip even about, which is why i pressed and kept asking the same question. As i said earlier, i think your default style is a common tell I use to find mefias but it's probably just how you play

[Joey_]

Also, why are you calling me a she?

avatar i guess, too lazy to double check the pronuns

[Joey_]

UNVOTE: both my leads ended up colder than expected

[Joey_]

VOTE: wake

[Joey_]

rb, wanna flip wake with me?

[Joey_]

@liverpool wake’s rxn to the dolly mason claim is a textbook scum tell aka mefias thinks its so towny to downplay hard townreads going their ways

[Joey_]

And Dolly’s whole rxn around the push on her is also textbook town, because what she saw out of the ordeal was a town gain; irrc she didn’t shade people fosing her for it, she didn’t show scum agenda, she just said “lol why would
I do this as mefia??” And “at least i got an ez tr”.
Thats hardly scum agenda. The mason claim attempt was also stupidly fast and arguably too fast to be efficient/believable as a fake claim, so it was probably more a meme town impulsive reaction than a scum trying to score t cred or wifom

[Joey_]

Alim Imo is transparent town, she feel compelled to basically answers anything in thread she disagrees with, thats a ridiculously reliable town tell, also she lowkey town sliped early on when she mentionned the numbers of players and what not. Easily fakeable slip but scum tends to fake other kinds of slips. Tris also shared that read with me while catching up. Alim answers are also pretty above average from and consistently so

[Joey_]

Alim Imo is transparent town, she feel compelled to basically answers anything in thread she disagrees with, thats a ridiculously reliable town tell, also she lowkey town sliped early on when she mentionned the numbers of players and what not. Easily fakeable slip but scum tends to fake other kinds of slips. Tris also shared that read with me while catching up. Alim answers are also pretty above average from and consistently so

I'm inclined to think that invis vs jake is actually SvS. That's pretty rare I must say, but it seems like some light bussing gone wrong.

thats a disgusting read and goes against your whole slip thought process and basically whatever you are doing rn still vote there

what happebed

Nothing? Town also has shit reads

[Joey_]

@billy; good post, i see what you mean and the inconsistence in the rationale and i can be wrong on dolly. Tho, i really thinks that her rxn is slipping a town pov. Townreading someone for refusing to lie implies that she knew before-hand that the claim itself was scummy. She probably was even curious if wake would lie with her or nah, idk & might’ve been ready herself to call out wake if he agreed on the lie. Imo its so naive and seems like town to me

I think your case is fine tho

[Joey_]

Btw rxn = reaction

[Joey_]

VOTE: wake

Could you explain this vote? What exactly makes you think Wake is scum?

secret

[Joey_]

eth0s and Joey are wild cards. Could go either way.

Weird pov, how am i a wild card ?

[Joey_]

Dolly you are fucking up the game and its a disservice for town

[Joey_]

Rb, your reads sucks this game, are you mefia?

[Joey_]

Imo wake is now obvious scum

Dolly and jake are TvsT almost always

[Joey_]

Also alim thats a ridiculous shade, 477 is basically me unvoting ark after she answered my post, theres nothing uncommon or noteworthy

[Joey_]

Imo wake is now obvious scum

What makes you say that?

Reads

[Joey_]

The table can’t understand when I explain stuff so i diubt theyd understand if I explained my wake read, so ill leave it at that

[Joey_]

Imo wake is now obvious scum

Dolly and jake are TvsT almost always

Guessing cos of the fluff posts initially? If not can you explain
It looked like you guys voted him after his night nurse comment.

You guys = joey

Also, i voted wake on a quick reread because my sauce/ark leads ended up cold, like i said. It has nothing to do with wake’s lastest post at the time i voted them

[Joey_]

The table can’t understand when I explain stuff so i diubt theyd understand if I explained my wake read, so ill leave it at that

People failing to understand reads is always better than having them suspicious of you for having seemingly no reasons. You should explain it anyway.

Im universally townreads and moreso when dolly or jake flips town

[Joey_]

And/or when wake flips scum

[Joey_]

I am probably flipping rb at some point too with how hes been playing

[Joey_]

The table can’t understand when I explain stuff so i diubt theyd understand if I explained my wake read, so ill leave it at that

People failing to understand reads is always better than having them suspicious of you for having seemingly no reasons. You should explain it anyway.

Im universally townreads and moreso when dolly or jake flips town

And/or when wake flips scum

Neither of these explain your reasoning.

I never meant to explain it, i explained why i wasnt gonna explain it

[Joey_]

Also it implied that reasoning is a mean to an end in trying to find my alignement, correct? My answers says you guys are already correct in reading me, thus the explaining itself is not useful to find my alignement. The explaining is not useful either since yall can’t read anyway

[Joey_]

If you think Wake is scum, you need to get people to vote him. Which means you need to convince them to vote him. Which means providing reasoning is in your best interests. Otherwise, Wake will continue to live, which is presumably not what you want.

Not a bad point, but I have a trumpcard

[Joey_]

Also being a little anti-town has it perks, its easier to read the game than when you are townread by scum

[Joey_]

Ill give you something to chew on tho, because you insisted and it's an easy to understand point

[Joey_]

Please don't hammer anyone yet. I'm still combing through the game thread and writing up a Reads List.

Guys, please NO hammering yet. I'm still typing up my Reads List.

alimdia

Please tell me again why you're voting Invisibility in 171. 203: Do you think rb could be Scum and is tunneling Dolly? I agree with the first half of 208, but I'd like you to guess as to why I don't agree with your second half of it. On 218 I think we should talk more about you thinking Dolly should be Townread regarding rb's behavior. I like that you also caught that in 257; want to join me in pressuring this? Not sure I like your 331... Also, why did you join on Jake's wagon in 341? I too would like to see Invisibility expand on 380.

Arkias

You seem eager to find a reason in 254 to join the Invisibility wagon. I like 402 because I agree with all of it. 443: It can be whatever; don't let people tell you how to play the game. Could you please briefly explain your gut-vote in 455?

Billy Pilgrim

491: Regarding Dolly, Invisibility, and Jake, who would you vote if you had to, and why? I think the better reason to vote Dolly would be 442, Billy, if she doesn't explain herself.

Can you tell me what doesn't work with 545/574 VS 587/596?

Dolly Parton

Not particularly liking your 151. For the record meta-wise, I never do Mason claims. Although I am still curious why you would target me for that claim. 184: In no way does that make me ObvTown, and I don't think it's reasonable for Town-You to really have that notion this early in the game. I agree with 199. You know, for someone being Scumread for a fake Mason claim, you appear eager to vote Invisibility for a perceived Scumslip (228). 231: I don't like this. 414: What? I REALLY don't like 442, and I could hammer you right now for it but I want an explanation from you on this. Please explain 514. 515: Noted. Somehow I'm not convinced by 523. I don't like the "reasoning" behind 556. I need you to thoroughly respond to 558 please.

eth0s

I don't like your vote in 96 because to me it feels opportunistic. Do you currently support Jake's lynch? Regarding 421, how are you reading him currently? On 433 I don't think he's had a completed Scum-game yet, so we don't know alimdia's Scum-meta. 434: Alimdia should not be above scrutiny, and Uzi has done barely anything this game.

Invisibility

Not liking your 122. Sarcasm rarely translates well on text. I agree with 277; a joke Mason claim does not a Scum make. Please tell me more your reasoning behind 379. I like 440. 454: A good question, and not a fair thing to really ask, especially during Day 1.

Jake The Wolfie

Please tell me again how Invisibility was quicklynching you in 95. I do however like your response to eth0s in 98. Only Scum self-votes to help themselves, so as Town you should never do that in 102. 111: Are you new to Mafia? I agree with 244. I also agree with 269. I can't agree with 405. I agree there hasn't been much from that slot wrt 411. I agree with 533, in that Dolly does appear to be doing a lot of shade-throwing.

Joey_

Please elaborate on 224. 225: That presumes you assume he is Town, which is knowledge you should not be having if you are Town. You should make it not a secret regarding 509, Joey.

Lil Uzi Vert

OK, I do not like 264, because you are way too quick to join the wagon: I want to know why

you

are voting Dolly. I can agree with 450.

I need to hear more from you, Uzi.

rb

I'm not that convinced it was a slip, rb (142). I wouldn't mind seeing Rex pressured more. So confident you seem in 147. I'm liking the latter half of 156. Unsure the reason for the Dolly vote in 161 but I'm assuming it was a reaction test. I find your overconfidence in 180 disturbing: you know Town is not informed, so if you're uninformed confidence is not something you should have (especially during the early part of Day 1). 181: Obviously if they were to flip Scum you would deal with the consequences. I don't recall getting a reaction from you regarding my 185. 196 seems completely unnecessary. In regards to 213, alimdia shouldn't be Townreading Dolly for that. 221: I'm still not convince Invisibility Scum-slipped, although I've been wrong before. I like that you picked up on that in 272. Regarding 289 I still think pressuring Rex is a good idea.

SausasaurusRex

How well do you fare under pressure as Scum? Your vote on Dolly regarding the fakeclaim is, to me, opportunistic. In 179 you meant fake-claim, not counter-claim, correct...? OK, you corrected yourself. I need you to be very specific regarding why you switched your vote from Dolly to Invisibility in 347. I agree with 382. 503: Good question. Not sure how to read 564.

tris

I agree with 315. I don't agree at all with 349, however. Are you saying in 351 it does or doesn't? I think we should hear more from eth0s in general wrt 381. I can't agree with you on 383: sometimes it's way too difficult to sort players, especially early on. 394 I do agree with.

Spoiler: Base Template

alimdia

Arkias

Billy Pilgrim

Dolly Parton

eth0s

Invisibility

Jake The Wolfie

Joey_

Lil Uzi Vert

rb

SausasaurusRex

tris

yeah im not reading that

if i have to follow a link and a link and another link in a post just to make it make sense, im not convinced the writer of the post is trying to be understood and will assume they're just doing busy work to look good without doing anything actually useful

i don't particularly care to lynch wake at this point

i also don't particularly care if he is lynched

Ah, so you're Scum or lazy Town.

I dislike people like that. They ask for reads and thoughts, you spend your time on it, and then some people have to be assholes and say they aren't even going to read it. Not cool.

[Joey_]

Sorry for the multiple post, i suck at formatting

Can you tell me what doesn't work with 545/574 VS 587/596? @sauce

[Joey_]

Damn dude, i underestimated you, that would be at least an B+/A in my class

Basically what is important to understand is, why would a town ask for people not to "hammer" before they out a read list? like think about it..

The only answers I can give are :
1) to influence the lynch in some ways, to have power over who is being lynched or not and trying to weigh in
2) to out their reads in the prospect its quick hammered and they get to die, they want town to know what they thought about the game.

2) is basically posturizing which is done by town and scum, buttttt there's no reason to believe that wake thought he was gonna die and feel urged to out their read list, which leads to 1)

Wake implied imo that he wanted to make sure his voice could be heard. After a huge ass wall on everyone on the game, he fails to address the JakevsDolly in any worthwhile manner, he basically post the same amount of content on what is at hands than on slots that are less relevant atm. This shows incoherence IMO between 545/575 & his wall
(he even takes the time to post his template, thats someone trying especially hard to looks neutral, hes being self-conscious because he doesn't want ppl to call him out on the colours he picked)

Thats 1 of my argument in favor of wake mefia, i have another secret

[Joey_]

AKA wake cared much more about

what they looked like

than

what power he could have over the lynches

, this also leans to a TvsT if wake is scum

[Joey_]

what does TvsT mean

Town versus town, that was in reference to the dolly vs jake

[Joey_]

@wake regardless what I think about your slot, your wall is opaque and its “content” that is extremely hard to engage on. All you do is aks questions and ask ppl to explain themselves, they won’t and shouldn’t in most cases of what you are asking

Instead of asking people to say stuff, why don’t take stances yourself? Irrc when skimming your iso I also saw posturizing and nothing substantial

[Joey_]

Damnit Wake, I still had more to say! But I don't really twilight post.

i want you to develop on that

[Joey_]

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

[Joey_]

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

Sounds like you're trying hard to use this.

to use what?

[Joey_]

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

Sounds like you're trying hard to use this.

How so?

Sounds like he's trying to reach for my lynch over hammering Dolly by trying to focus on eth0s and see if he'll react in anger over my hammer.

Also, I think we have a Vig.

this post is pretty hilarious, i justed wanted ethos to go into his ideas. Also, i might actuall have reading issues because i just realized ethos flip, shrugs

[Joey_]

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

Sounds like you're trying hard to use this.

How so?

Also, this is an impossible pov to have. You awknowledge a vig (aka you noticed a 2nd night kill) yet you failed to notice who got killed? what town not give a fuck about who get killed at night?

Sounds like he's trying to reach for my lynch over hammering Dolly by trying to focus on eth0s and see if he'll react in anger over my hammer.

Also, I think we have a Vig.

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

Isnt eth0s dead?

Oh wait, shit, he is lol.

[Joey_]

#689 EBODP

Also, this is an impossible pov to have. You awknowledge a vig (aka you noticed a 2nd night kill) yet you failed to notice who got killed? what town not give a fuck about who get killed at night?

[Joey_]

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

Sounds like you're trying hard to use this.

How so?

Sounds like he's trying to reach for my lynch over hammering Dolly by trying to focus on eth0s and see if he'll react in anger over my hammer.

Also, I think we have a Vig.

i am sorry for 13th post in a row but you asumed i was asking ethos to expand on that line of the quoted post
"please don't hammer this before I post again'' and you attributed me intentions of lynching you, somehow reading that as "trying hard to read for your lynch" lmao

Yet you completely discarded the 2nd line of ethos post "I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next".
IF you read my post about jake's twilight content or w/e, you wouldn've realized it was the exact same kind of post; both slot promised some kind of content but they never got around to it, which is why i asked both to 'develop/expand' their ideas.

Its just so weird that you would assume i asked ethos to expand on the quickhammer line instead of the line about content

[Joey_]

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

Sounds like you're trying hard to use this.

How so?

Also, this is an impossible pov to have. You awknowledge a vig (aka you noticed a 2nd night kill) yet you failed to notice who got killed? what town not give a fuck about who get killed at night?

Sounds like he's trying to reach for my lynch over hammering Dolly by trying to focus on eth0s and see if he'll react in anger over my hammer.

Also, I think we have a Vig.

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

Isnt eth0s dead?

Oh wait, shit, he is lol.

We both thought he was still alive, lol.

yes but only one of us noticed a 2nd night kill

[Joey_]

And as far as I am concerned, you are the first one to bring up the hammer as being something that you could be pushed on, which shows that you are very aware your hammer sucked ass lol

[Joey_]

I thought you were trying to use my hammer on Dolly to make me look like Scum, by appealing to eth0s who might be angry at me because I hammered Dolly without him coming back. I figured that looked like Scum being opportunistic and trying to appeal to eth0s to try and vote me for hammering Dolly.

You could probably write a novel out of a nutrition label with that kind of imagination

[Joey_]

yes but only one of us noticed a 2nd night kill

And?

I'm aware of it now, and it tells me there's probably a Vig in this game.

problme is; how can you notice a 2nd kill w/o knowing who got killed ?? thats just ew

[Joey_]

VOTE: LUV

[Joey_]

And as far as I am concerned, you are the first one to bring up the hammer as being something that you could be pushed on, which shows that you are very aware your hammer sucked ass lol

Well, to be fair, Dolly kind of sucked ass.

I'm starting to change my Town-meta in this regard (starting to not hammer) because hindsight is 20/20 and Scum almost always tries to go after me for hammering.

if only town made a good 2-3 posts explains why Dolly had a town pov.. wait

[Joey_]

explaining* man im tired af and i just typo like crazy

[Joey_]

And as far as I am concerned, you are the first one to bring up the hammer as being something that you could be pushed on, which shows that you are very aware your hammer sucked ass lol

Well, to be fair, Dolly kind of sucked ass.

I'm starting to change my Town-meta in this regard (starting to not hammer) because hindsight is 20/20 and Scum almost always tries to go after me for hammering.

I mean, in a vacuum, your hammer is close to a scumclaim and entering the day with a narrative all made up + pluggin that narrative VERY hard on anything that COULDVE came your way is exactly how i would assume an average/common scum player to plan their day

[Joey_]

You could probably write a novel out of a nutrition label with that kind of imagination

Well, God did bless me with creativity.

problme is; how can you notice a 2nd kill w/o knowing who got killed ?? thats just ew

Because I saw two green names but scrolled kind of quickly.

I mean, it happens. We are human after all.

Thats basically my point, why wouldn't you give two fuck about who flipped? I assume you would at least check the roles if you noticed 2 set of green names, then why wouldn't bother reading the names ?? idk, its not a closed setup nor a full VT setup when flips does not matter

[Joey_]

It has nothing about meta, it has everything about the pre-made narrative you tried to stitch over my post, which is a "fair" thought process to have, it's just absurd how you reacted

[Joey_]

FTR, my last game, mafia quickhammered d1 town who I called town and was hard defending. Someone asked the town to not hammer yet because they wanted claims/reads and scum did hammer before the hammeree could even show up (like in a 6h window). And i pushed that slot, which ended up only being lynched as last mefia on lylo yet they did scumclaim with that hammer

This scenario is pretty similar in many ways, but somehow I am not as convinced its coming from mefia. So you can be certain If i wanted to push you for it, i would

[Joey_]

You could probably write a novel out of a nutrition label with that kind of imagination

Well, God did bless me with creativity.

problme is; how can you notice a 2nd kill w/o knowing who got killed ?? thats just ew

Because I saw two green names but scrolled kind of quickly.

I mean, it happens. We are human after all.

Thats basically my point, why wouldn't you give two fuck about who flipped? I assume you would at least check the roles if you noticed 2 set of green names, then why wouldn't bother reading the names ?? idk, its not a closed setup nor a full VT setup when flips does not matter

I mean, we don't all play the same. And missing that detail doesn't automatically make one Scum. If it did then me and everyone else with ADHD would be screwed in Mafia games. Point is, I am aware of who and what now, and I don't really see how me initially missing that detail makes me Scum or Town for that matter. For example Scum could have perfectly noticed it, but would that then make them Town? To be frank I don't think so.

IMO, seeing a 2nd flip most likely care in a greater order about the color of the flips rather than anything else related; role, names.

The scenario where someone notice 2 flips yet fails to see the names IMO is a scenario where someone notices 2 flips and is somehow satisfied with that limited amount of information. It's hard for me to picture a town pov where a townie would be satisfied in having the alignement flip info, the roles but not the names.

[Joey_]

IMO' seeing a 2nd flip, scum most likely ..**

[Joey_]

Also the names are important for a townie because they have genuine reads and not all flips are equals. I care a greater deal if a locktown is being night killed over someone i was unsure about. Thats why town cares about names and scum cares in a lesser manner

[Joey_]

Also i dont want to sounds like a pedantic douchebags, but this post has no sound logic in any of the sentences, its all non-sense full of fallacies

"I mean, we don't all play the same. And missing that detail doesn't automatically make one Scum. If it did then me and everyone else with ADHD would be screwed in Mafia games. Point is, I am aware of who and what now, and I don't really see how me initially missing that detail makes me Scum or Town for that matter. For example Scum could have perfectly noticed it, but would that then make them Town? To be frank I don't think so."

[Joey_]

Should I flip before you

Do you fos me wake?

[Joey_]

Also i dont want to sounds like a pedantic douchebags, but this post has no sound logic in any of the sentences, its all non-sense full of fallacies

"I mean, we don't all play the same. And missing that detail doesn't automatically make one Scum. If it did then me and everyone else with ADHD would be screwed in Mafia games. Point is, I am aware of who and what now, and I don't really see how me initially missing that detail makes me Scum or Town for that matter. For example Scum could have perfectly noticed it, but would that then make them Town? To be frank I don't think so."

OK Spock.

I mean, we don't all play the same

; not a point, it doesn't invalidates the rationale

And missing that detail doesn't automatically make one Scum

; that never have been my point, also arguing over probabilities is pretty bad overall instead of attacking the rationale

If it did then me and everyone else with ADHD would be screwed in Mafia games;

thats non-sens. Missing names is much more likely to be player-styles correlated than ADHD correlated.If anything, flips are the most fucking important pieces of information in a gamea and they only happens a few times per game after 48h nights. I assure you, any ADHD kids can read two important sentences after 48h pauses.

Point is, I am aware of who and what now, and I don't really see how me initially missing that detail makes me Scum or Town for that matter;

Yes you do, i explained it to you. You not understanding my point doesn't invalidates it. Also it's not "missing a details", its a fucking flip, not a crumb aka you didn't miss anything, you just didn't feel compelled to know the names for REASONS, be it AI or player style related.

For example Scum could have perfectly noticed it, but would that then make them Town? To be frank I don't think so

Thats silly rethoric that has nothing to do with what i explained. I am arguing that A + B = C which is never invalidated by arguing that A + D = E

[Joey_]

Should I flip before you

Do you fos me wake?

Not currently. I can't tell one way or another what you are right now.

How so? I am pretty much alignement telling since the start of the day

[Joey_]

I am pretty much alignement telling since the start of the day

How so?

You can't answer a question by another question, thats called deflecting.

I am alignement telling because I am pushing my wincon agenda in the open

[Joey_]

BTW whoever killed rb/ethos pretty much killed half of the active posters which makes this game not as fun

[Joey_]

sigh

please don't hammer this before I post again.

I'm starting to think we shouldn't hammer it at all. I'll elaborate on that and much more when I'm on next.

@ethos can you expand on that

Isnt eth0s dead?

Oh wait, shit, he is lol.

I don't believe that both of you didn't see 2 kills. No way. One of you is lying and/or trying to use it as a town tell...

How is that a town tell? It is assuming that the kills are coming from anti-town factions which sounds TMI

[Joey_]

Also, wake did see the 2 kills, I didn’t

[Joey_]

Billy, it feels like you are coasting. Would you mind making content, a read list, anything

[Joey_]

VOTE: LUV

Could you elaborate on this vote? Is it just because of inactivity, or do you have suspicions?

I could but I won't. Who do you think is mefia?

[Joey_]

boring game, there's not doubt scum is coasting this day pretty hard

[Joey_]

Half the table haven't posted and it's been 24h+ since the day started, like cmon

@MOD can you ask for a LUV replacement

[Joey_]

Also.. vanilla cop sounds useless af?

Because of a vanilla flip, I think there''s reason to believe that Mafia has non-goon roles

What is your experience in forum mafia in general?

[Joey_]

Its relevant actually. I asked that because there's almost always a PR in scum team

[Joey_]

Stop voting for shit reasons

[Joey_]

Its really annoying that decent slot gets voted left and right by scummy slots and no one bats an eye

[Joey_]

@sauce that doesnt really answer my question. Whos mefia? Whats your scumpool today?

[Joey_]

VOTE: wake up sheeple

For now i think wake is the best slot to put pressure on. Everyone should reread and make their minds about the table. RN theres so many replacements and afks that we don’t know who reads who how

[Joey_]

I am taking billy’s slot to lylo with me. If anyone has qualms about any either my slot or his, speak now c:

[Joey_]

Its really annoying that decent slot gets voted left and right by scummy slots and no one bats an eye

You talking about the votes on Billy?

Yas

[Joey_]

And someone else i dont remember, just overall. The d1 townblock was implied to me ehtos/rb/myself. Sarting d2, i feel pretty lazy dont really want to take the game by the balls even if i should

[Joey_]

Billy, can you link me a scum and town game of yours so i can lock my read on you

[Joey_]

I am taking billy’s slot to lylo with me. If anyone has qualms about any either my slot or his, speak now c:

I do

Then speak up, irrc you said his tone was scummy, how so?

@alim will most likely join you

[Joey_]

Nope, i was busy tonight. I will check 797 later

[Joey_]

from reading billy's games i will retract my lylo statement

[Joey_]

Sorry fellas can we not do meta lol? Talking about Billy's games

Why? I caught people d1 from reading their scum game

[Joey_]

I am taking billy’s slot to lylo with me. If anyone has qualms about any either my slot or his, speak now c:

I do

Then speak up, irrc you said his tone was scummy, how so?

@alim will most likely join you

797

Did you get around to reading some of his games

I read. If you disliked Billy going at Dolly for her duel thingy, what do you think of my post with about the same opinion?

Dolly you are fucking up the game and its a disservice for town

In light of Billy's s and t games, i am putting my read on hold. I think the points your brought up in 797 are fine

[Joey_]

It took me a while to catch up. I'm now all caught up and this is where I am at right now.

Town/Joey - Looking at his posts it looks like he is sorting players and one of his recent posts I saw he asked Billy to link him his scum and town game and I don't think scum would say this and normally it comes from a townie who wants to make sure they got their reads right.

Town/Alimdia - He looks observant saying Invisibility and Jake are unlikely to be a scum team and his thought process does looks like it comes from a townie mindset.

Town/Sausasaurus Rex - On #347 his town read on Jake looks reasonable saying that Jake seems to be playing very similar to the last game they played together when Jake was town and I don't think scum would bring up a players previous game saying they seem to be playing similar to the last game they played as town.

Town/TrisOrfhz - I didn't really see anything from Tris that stood out as town and when Orfhz took over from that slot he votes Sausaurus Rex and then he switches his vote to Billy since he said he read through Sausausaurus Rex last two games and I don't think scum would read through a players previous games.

Neutral/Jake - On day 1 he has been defending himself alot and then he asks players to just quickhammer him and this is a really weird thing for a scum to say this though I have seen a scum say this only once. Looks like my predecessor has played with Jake before and mentions Jake was playing similar to the last game they played together when Jake was town. Only problem I had with this slot is I did not like his interaction with Dolly since his posts looked like he was taunting Dolly.

Neutral/Wake - He asks questions, says he will follow up on a reads list but he never did and that hammer was unexpected. Talks too much about his meta and says scum always keep him alive to get him lynched. I will need to understand him better since this is my first time playing with him.

Neutral/LUV - I didn't see much of him and I can't get a good read on him.

Scum/KcdBilly - Most of Kcd's posts were fluff and he votes Jake for defending himself and that is not a good vote reason. He town reads and scum reads players without explaining why they are town or scum. I recently finished a game with scum Billy and the posting looks similar to his scum game.

Scum/Invisibility - I did not like his interaction with Jake and I did not like the vote on Alimdia and he didn't even explain his vote. On day 2 all he's doing is sheeping.

VOTE: Invisibility

Jiggly puff's catching up post is pretty weak both in term of content and tone. Ex: saying I am town for asking billy to link me his past games.

[Joey_]

Mafia is most likely 2/3 afk and its annoying. This game is bound to be annoying; theres already a few vla up to 18th december then it’s going to be an afk fest up to 2-3th of january

[Joey_]

Is there a particular player you think I got my read on wrong like for example do you think one of the players I'm leaning town you're leaning scum on?

I’m also low key curious why you responded to sauce but not Joey saying basically the same thing about your read list

Historically I see a lot of ppl who tends to not reply to me heads on because I am very confronting and impulsive. It might be AI

[Joey_]

Sorry been busy, will look at Adorable and Invis and the other ppl's interactions in the last page

Sorry fellas can we not do meta lol? Talking about Billy's games

Hmm... why dont you want other people using meta in their cases?

Sorry fellas can we not do meta lol? Talking about Billy's games

Why? I caught people d1 from reading their scum game

cos meta is unreliable from personal experience. 2nd hand meta more so. I'm busy af and don't have time to go read someone else's game at this time. And no, I'm not gonna take anyones word that someone is town/scum based on X meta, even if I TR them heavily. Have an actual case please.

I dislike vcas but it doesnt make them invalid. Meta is part of the game and you have to deal with it

[Joey_]

I am a tone read. I linked a few reads i got from using "meta" in my past 3 games, on all of those, i was wrong once and it was arguably someone playing his best game

Spoiler:

I just skimmed mutant's last scum game
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=77564&user_select[]=30609

And honestly his posts are significantly different than his posts in this game. Inb4 I am wrong and I look silly post game but, tone reading is basically one of my strength (and weakness) and mutant post's as scum are unsubstantial, shows no emotions (classic s tell) and he's seen constantly doubting himself & taking stances meant for posturizing (like half reads, non-comital stuff, asking himself questions etc). Also, in his scum posts, its very obvious that he's shading people left and right which is scum agenda.

Mutant is obviously someone who can express himself very well which offer some sort of distance from his writing style and his emotions. In this game tho, the way he showed emotions was when he cranked his own posts when he felt pressure, which he recognized himself. His walls this game imo almost never showed agenda; everytime he outed a read he nuanced it and, irrc, didn't discredit someone for the sake of discrediting (like he did as scum).

Exemples of his scum shades
"are you claiming that your role enables you to unlock people's 2nd role PM, aka their quest PM? Because the quest flavour is what is listen as 2nd for me.

Or are you just being dumb

and actually mean this"

His wording is non-comital he's offering an "out" to whoever hes investigating, which is a read that comes off as non-agressive since being dumb is NA

"Oof varsoon. Are you going to be posting like that all game? Gotta be honest here I but I found your post just a little irritating. My biggest gripe is how you criticise a lot of people for doing NAI stuff and fluff posts yet a large part of your post has a lot of fluffy stuff in it. Like, if your post is THAT large, and you expect people to actually read it, surely you'd keep your own fluff to a minimum?"

His wording is non-comital, trying not to comes off as having a strong read. That's probably his worse post that I skim

"I can't help but feel there are slight undertones of someone who doesn't want to be investigated here. Do millers usually claim early in the game? I don't have much experience with them."

His wording is non-comital and his read is implied. After outing his read, he's admitting mechanic ignorance which decrease the tone of his read yet still shades a slot

His shades/answers this game
"A large majority of people prefer playing as town. So it's statistically likely that you too prefer playing town. Hence, if you're saying you think your alignment is crappy, you're admitting that you are mafia?
VOTE: pisskop"

Committal wording, he's not using wording where he's 2nd guessing himself, he's offering no out

"this is a pretty strong conclusion to come to. So I must ask how serious this conclusion is? It seems odd to me that anyone could be so closed-minded this early into the game."

Implied read using words that are NAI and he's offering an out "early game". This fits his sucm posting but the wording is much different IMO. He's not using 2nd guessing wording and close-minded is much less discrediting of someone's character than "dumb" is

"Also, I'd like you to justify your statements that I'm A) Tryharding and B) trying to blend in. Those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive but they are pretty damn close."

Non-comittal wording, implied read and you can argue he's offering an out. Again this could fit his scum posting but I feel the wording/tone is much different

"Your issue is that you're treating my vote as RVS. I've already explained that it was not an RVS vote. It was a calculated and intentional vote albeit with reasons I didn't genuinely believe - this had the sole intention of generating content. Until that point nobody had said anything meaningful.
Why does making an early vote that uses effort and logic instead of just near randomness make me scum? It shows an element of tryharding, sure. But what about that is inherently scummy?"

Here he is answering a post shading him, but not once did he shade or imply a read toward that person in any way, there's no scum agenda and he's engaging the content of the post. IMO, if he was scum w/ the meta from the linked game, he probably would've sliped a few shading comments in there

"You're saying a lot of things about me here that I agree with yet I still don't understand how you come to the conclusion I am scum. Yes I took issue with the position in the game (in that nothing of substance was being said). Yes I am incredibly self-aware. Yes I have primarily a logical approach to things. And yes I was trying to be useful and proactive. So what I don't understand is why all of those things are bad? Or at the very least, why you think they are bad? I consider all of those traits to be positive, or at the very least neutral, so the only reason I can see that you'd suspect me for displaying them is if you think I'm faking them. Until your most recent posts, it really did not seem like that was what you were accusing me of. So am I right in saying that the reason you are currently scum reading me is because you think my blatant display of those traits is me faking and overselling them?"

Same as above

"I don't see what town motivation there is to purposely stunt my ability to read you."

This is his first kinda shade towards pk after like 2 wall posts and a half which shows town POV because he's saying he's having a hard time reading PK, its coherent with someone who just had a huge conversation and didn't imply a read on them.

Its pretty blatant this is mutant's town game

I skimmed and i think it is the same, I will have to dive deeper later

you didn't have time to skim jack shit

plus, no it's not the same at all

I did skim, its pretty subjective what skimming means. Did you ask me what exactly I did ? No, then why do you imply I am lying or shade me ?

Also, I said I disagree but needed to dive deeper and more correctly. Whats the purpose of this post but just to shade me?

I read a few recent games of detective as both alignement and my confidence on her slot flipping scum decreased significantly
VOTE: primate

I did skim the linked game, imo he was scummy in that game and tone is different

Also, the millerized claim would be a pretty ballsy power move right out of the gate, unlikely but def possible

Still TR primate, but can trust rainn, and still waiting for that meta talk about primatescum

I am the main pusher on primate and i have never mentioned meta. The only time i did, was someone pointing out that he was playing like his town self; i skimmed his past games and disagreed

First linked game, his posting is significantly different from skimming, lookin' at 2nd

I still think this game is different than the 2nd linked game in tone; a bit like my mutants case. He obviously can express himself really well but he tends to be overcautious and not commit in his wordings

I actually disagree but hindsight 20/20

The 2nd linked game feels like an actual tryhard scumgame, the 1st linked one being a casual scum game. This game, his posting patterns looks much more like his casual play yet his tone is much better than the ruby game, shrugs

I am going to assume this is his town tryhard;
viewtopic.php?p=11178158&user_select%5B ... #p11178158

The tone is pretty hard to differentiate from his 2nd linked game, meh. I don't think tone works for him besides in ruby

I showed my reads can fail (even if I knew a priori that my titus meta sucked) so y'all should reread the game yourself and find more than one scumread

I have an exam tomorrow morning hence why I didn't take the time to make my towncase.
Basically it's tone & content from meta, simple. I played with him a long time ago and IIRC his slot was abysmal and scum while this game he's able to show his thought process, has decent unique thoughts and is coherent within his own process (even if I disagree with a lot of stuff). My plan was to search the last game we played and his recents scum game so I can do some diggin

@PM can you link me your most recent scumgame

Also, from a langage perspective, I remember PM being extremely erased and having absolutely not self confidence whatsoever in the scum game we played.
This game, he's using wording that implies he's in a position of power; see "lenient" he used in 986. This most likely also means that he very much prefer to play town than scum (assumption)

[Joey_]

Adorable, why do you think scum are less likely to want to meta dive? I think scum have the same amount of incentive to as town because it can greatly increase their chances of successfully manipulating certain players and identifying particularly strong town players.

Thats such a scum pov to have

[Joey_]

I refuse to lynch in alim/ofrhz/adorable today and somewhat billy/sauce

IMO today’s pool should be LUV/inv/jake/wake and the rest i mightve forgot

[Joey_]

I am probably flipping rb at some point too with how hes been playing

This comes off even more strange now than it probably did initially. Can you talk about your experience with rb?

My experience is pretty limited. We played one game as scum together a few years ago. I think I read one or two of his t games while trying to replace in one his game a while ago but never actually replaced in. One old time friend of mine (Transcend) who I respect a lot as a player told me rb was very decent and an overall great player.

Thats about it. When i know someone should be above average, I expect above average reads

[Joey_]

Then she posted (402)**

@jigglypuff i corrected myself there about the “4 garbage reads” comment. It was intended to reference 402 and not 443.

Ark was playing shallow because she had no game content at that point in the game. I said “the post i was waiting for” in comparison to what she is able to produce (from meta, i mentionned that in a previous post) and how generally i expect town reacting to a push

[Joey_]

Well, I think Tris is town. RB is probably town too.

Between the Jake and Invis thing I mentioned earlier, I can't really see either of them being scum.

So, for now,

VOTE: unvote

I'm going to give the thread another read and try to get some analysis going on.

Also, I like that pirate gif. It reminds me of Monkey Island.

4 reads, no explanations; its a shallow post where she shows no though process in trying to sort or in her processus to sort. Its a garbage post

[Joey_]

I will reread the game and make a readlist, i suggest everyone do the same

[Joey_]

I am probably flipping rb at some point too with how hes been playing

This comes off even more strange now than it probably did initially. Can you talk about your experience with rb?

My experience is pretty limited. We played one game as scum together a few years ago. I think I read one or two of his t games while trying to replace in one his game a while ago but never actually replaced in. One old time friend of mine (Transcend) who I respect a lot as a player told me rb was very decent and an overall great player.

Thats about it. When i know someone should be above average, I expect above average reads

I think it’s quite clear that some players reads trend towards well above average when they’re allowed any room to maneuver and build their ways the way they go about it. We simply didn’t see enough from rb or had enough information to determine the strength of his reads at the time and you feeling his weren’t up to par looks like you have information that the rest of us aren’t privy too.

or the simpler explanation is that we had different reads, which shouldn't happens if both of us are town

[Joey_]

Town-leaning:
Wake, Alimdia, Jake, Ofrhz.
Null:
Lil Uzi Vert, Adorable, Billy Pilgrim
Scum-leaning:
Invisible, Joey

I had written a detailed post, but mafiascum decided to delete 30 minutes worth of work. If you would like any more information on any of these reads, just ask.

irrc you said i was town a few pages ago, what changed?

[Joey_]

stop voting randomly, billy/dorable/inv are not being lynched today

[Joey_]

I am currently rereading and so far

I have Sauce as town
Inv/Jake as very likely town

Wake as hard scum

Rest is still up to be read but i expect that i will townread Alim/ark/ofz, leaving billy/LUV. I dont really think billy is mefia but could be, will reread to confirm

Also, everyone should notice that Wake and LUV have been the biggest wagons, yet someone those wagons never went over 3 votes and after many days. Also, the wagon constitution of both are in the slots i trust the most, namely alim/ofhz and in a lesser extent, inv

[Joey_]

IMO we should flip in LUV/wake. Wake's game is pretty crap and I completely rolled over them logic wise at the start of D2

[Joey_]

stop voting randomly, billy/dorable/inv are not being lynched today

Why not invis?

I saw no scum agenda, he asks decent questions and has some good posts

[Joey_]

So why is Wake being voted again? I just kinda skimmed over the game.

I honestly have no idea other than him hammering Dolly.

Obviously you haven’t been reading the game

[Joey_]

I am taking billy’s slot to lylo with me. If anyone has qualms about any either my slot or his, speak now c:

I do

Then speak up, irrc you said his tone was scummy, how so?

@alim will most likely join you

Your vote is still on wake I think? LUV is bigger wagon

Also its pretty

fucking hilarious

trying to spin i am mafia for calling rb’s reads shit lmao, as if you need to know someone alignement to call their content bad, try harder

[Joey_]

I misquoted #916, it should be @LUV

[Joey_]

if eth0s ever flips scum, kcda lockscum imo

maybe arkias tho actually

rb, wanna flip wake with me?

not particularly tbh

alright so

im okay with lynching: Dolly, Invisibility, Saus

i don't really have a clear direction on anyone yet unless i assume bad = scum

and yeah, it may well be

All of those posts IMO are pretty much dead wrong and why I sais rb might be scum. He is ignoring the scummy slots and giving way too much attention to inv/dolly/jake who i though were most likely all town

[Joey_]

I am currently rereading and so far

I have Sauce as town
Inv/Jake as very likely town

Wake as hard scum

Rest is still up to be read but i expect that i will townread Alim/ark/ofz, leaving billy/LUV. I dont really think billy is mefia but could be, will reread to confirm

Also, everyone should notice that Wake and LUV have been the biggest wagons, yet someone those wagons never went over 3 votes and after many days. Also, the wagon constitution of both are in the slots i trust the most, namely alim/ofhz and in a lesser extent, inv

Wagons stalling is NAI. All they tell you is that scum are already on the wagon and said person who is wagoned is town, scum are on the wagon and are willing to bus said person who is being wagoned, or the person is not willing to fighting back because he or she believes the wagon will lose traction.

Wagon dynamics are def AI and idk why you are even bringing this up. Also this whole paragraph is a scum pov

[Joey_]

So why is Wake being voted again? I just kinda skimmed over the game.

I honestly have no idea other than him hammering Dolly.

Obviously you haven’t been reading the game

If it’s about him stating he didn’t see who flipped and not caring either, then that’s pretty laughable.

Hey, you have been reading! But did you read correctly ? The point I did bring is much beyond just not seeing the names and IMO is AI. Now feel free to explain to me why the rationale is incorrect and I will genuinely read you and try to consider your point.

Thats also one of the 2 points I outed against wake, the first one was D1 and ans was about the incoherence in his stated intentions and actual posting, which is also AI. Again, feel free to read up and counter argue

That being said, it is the only case ATM on the table that goes beyond disagreeing on content and bad tone.
-ofrz thinks billy is mefia for tone and disliked his agressive content. That case has merits but is not universally relatable especially by people who can’t read
-inv thinks jiggly is mefia; idk even why but irrc its def an OMGUs kind of read

I dont think anyone is pushing anyone else atm.

Me on wake;
-D1 incoherence, explained in length d1
-D1 hammer was sketchy, could easily come from mefia
-D2 defensiveness and his narrative when I asked ethos about his d1 pre-twilight post
-D2 him seeing two kills but not looking at the name, explained in length

@LUV there is still 3 mefias on the table and I haven’t seen you do anything else than trying to very badly spin my words and shading me. Even if I was mefia, then who are the others?

Do you even have any trs? Read your iso, you havent done jack shit

[Joey_]

@billy about jigglypuff, its mostly because i townread one or two posts from his pred. Also, its pretty obvious jiggly is not someone you can easily read via normal methods so i am being cautious in taking his content at face value which is why i give a lot of weight on my read on his pred.

I also think that wake/luv are very scummy in comparison to virtually all the other slots, so i dont really want to dive in that slot. He could be mefia but looks like lynchbaity to me, which is never a long run treath anyway

[Joey_]

Threat**

[Joey_]

We should let wake answer the push/claim before hammering, his vla ends tomorrow

[Joey_]

Would have been cooler if you had rode this out with me though.

This heavily implies Dolly was lying. Why would Wake need to ride it out if she’d been telling the truth?

VOTE: Dolly Parton

I don’t like Invis’s slip either though. Perhaps a D2 lynch if the Dolly one doesn’t work.

Btw I just remembered why I revoked my TR on Sausaurus .

If we look through his ISO he was very focused on invis, then voted Dolly, then day 2 starts and he doens't mention invis at all.

If invis is town, this man is 100% scum. If invis is scum, I'm not so sure...

I did mention Invisible. He was on my scum-leaning list. The reason I haven’t talked about him much is because I don’t feel he’s done anything that other players haven’t already mentioned, and there was no reason to repeat them.

Not one actually coherently formulated a scumread on invs besides petty omguses. So what has already been mentioned?

[Joey_]

What is scummy about inv at all ?

Voting/Sheeping isn't scummy at face value, you need to explain why is it in the context. The fact he went down from scum to scum-leaning when you still have no reason to fos them whatsoever (that you can formulate via words) is not enough.

Why do you read inv as scum-leaning? You mentioned D1, what about D2?

OMGUS = ""Oh My God U Suck" which is a large term used to denotes ppl who's their reaction when voted/fosed is to fos/scumread that person back, like so:

1 Sauce: "lol joey u so sc0m u did X"
2. Joey: "OMG Sauce you suck!!! then proceeds to vote : Sauce

Basically its a classic reactions that is seen in both alignement. The reason why I brought it up is because while it's pretty common, it's petty and has often no logic behind the OMGUS (vote) since it's pretty obv to everyone that town does happens to fos town (so its NAI per se).

[Joey_]

Basically OMGUS are not cases in 95% of the time and its low level rhetoric with no substance, so I am discrediting the cases on inv ATM. I haven't seen anything other the slip that could make sens, and even then, it's FAR from enough

[Joey_]

Ladies and gentlemen, Billy just towntold in 941 by showing a town pov

[Joey_]

I am about 90%+ certain that both billy and orhz are town, yet it is so hard to have a wagon of more than 3 votes happening, including mine

I wonder why /s

[Joey_]

@wake claim in your next string of posts

[Joey_]

Assuming theres a vig with 3 mefia and vig miss + a mislynch today and vig is not hit, its lylo tomorrow with 4-3

[Joey_]

I'll be looking over this game tonight.

Wrapping up my 6th straight 12-hour night shift in a row in 3 hours.

I am assuming ure admitting to being a dirty mefia via no effort

@billy; i literraly keep myself from posting because i made like 30% of the game's content

[Joey_]

Also a last argurment for wake as mefia, he lied in 944;

You can't even have a single 12h-shift in 3 hours.. yet alone 6

[Joey_]

So why is Wake being voted again? I just kinda skimmed over the game.

I honestly have no idea other than him hammering Dolly.

Obviously you haven’t been reading the game

If it’s about him stating he didn’t see who flipped and not caring either, then that’s pretty laughable.

Hey, you have been reading! But did you read correctly ? The point I did bring is much beyond just not seeing the names and IMO is AI. Now feel free to explain to me why the rationale is incorrect and I will genuinely read you and try to consider your point.

Thats also one of the 2 points I outed against wake, the first one was D1 and ans was about the incoherence in his stated intentions and actual posting, which is also AI. Again, feel free to read up and counter argue

That being said, it is the only case ATM on the table that goes beyond disagreeing on content and bad tone.
-ofrz thinks billy is mefia for tone and disliked his agressive content. That case has merits but is not universally relatable especially by people who can’t read
-inv thinks jiggly is mefia; idk even why but irrc its def an OMGUs kind of read

I dont think anyone is pushing anyone else atm.

Me on wake;
-D1 incoherence, explained in length d1
-D1 hammer was sketchy, could easily come from mefia
-D2 defensiveness and his narrative when I asked ethos about his d1 pre-twilight post
-D2 him seeing two kills but not looking at the name, explained in length

@LUV there is still 3 mefias on the table and I haven’t seen you do anything else than trying to very badly spin my words and shading me. Even if I was mefia, then who are the others?

Do you even have any trs? Read your iso, you havent done jack shit

It’s not uncommon these days for people to tend to skip large chunks of text when reading. I have friends who read super fast, but skim so much, and don't even realize their skimming a lot. But then someone asks them what was on the previous page, and though they just read it, they don't remember it.

You find it weird that he noticed a second kill without knowing who was killed. You argue him not noticing means he’s satisfied with limited information. All of this is fair until motivation comes into play. Where’s the scum agenda?

The optimal play for scum is to not mention that their might be a vigilante because it can lead to the shots being decided by town, rather than the vigilante deciding unilaterally. The former is a big advantage for town, because you’re essentially getting all the advantages of a lynch with pretty much no risk. Also if the vigilante themselves is the player who would be killed, they have no need to claim; so long as it's sufficiently established that they are town, they can kill someone else, dodging the scum kill in the process, and getting off one last shot the next day.

As for your point referencing his Day 1 play, why does incoherence make him scum? Town can absolutely be inconsistent, illogical, or unclear. I’d argue more often than scum. Scum tend to aim for consistency. They'll often try beyond what's natural to nail that feeling of it being consistent. They put in the effort, make it deliberately overall the same pattern. And in doing so, it becomes somewhat artificial. Town, however, will just keep themselves spewing out what they please. And in doing so, they'll keep themselves rather consistent, simply because they're town; they're being honest, and speaking their truthful opinion. And because there is no lie involved, because it's natural, instead of artificial, they are less likely overall to slip up. Sure, they'll have contradictions, but their contradictions will mostly seem natural, honest mistakes which can be made simply from not thinking. Scum, however, when making their contradictions, will read more like a slip, something which slipped through the cracks in their web of lies. Not from not thinking, simply from not thinking enough.

1. True, but thats not my point. My point is that a flip is not just any paragraph or like any other posts; they are the most important posts in the game. The scum agenda is exactly in him admitting to having seen 2 kills yet failed to know who was killed, thats scum agenda because this scenarios NEVER happens in a town POV. Wake just fucked up and was caught

2. See --> Wake fucked up and it wasn't about vig mechanics, he just showed a scum pov where he wouldn't bother reading the kills

3. Yea town is incoherent and I won't even disagree that town might even be more incoherent than scum if you really want to counterargue. But it's just not incoherence; he straight up said more than once he would do X then failed to do so. It's much more keen to being disingenius than "pure incoherence" but yea, it was scummy af but it's almost never a single thing that makes someone scum. He just shat the bed many times, that incoherence was like when my read passed from scum-leaning to hard scumread.

4. You are way too focused on counter arguing because you are biased and believe i am powerwolfing through this game, just chill boyo. I think you towntold in that post so overall it's pretty good that you are triggered by my play

[Joey_]

I keep having this nagging feeling that you’re trying to speed the game up to avoid town noticing why you haven’t been night killed.

You are attributing me intentions. Maybe you feel like I am speeding the game, but why would it be because someone scum related? Why can't i want to speed the game for town purposes or personnal purposes ?

Thats bias, check ur privileges

[Joey_]

@LUV also you critique my scumreads and the arguments I use to push wake, yet you can't formulate why you scumread me besides the speedgame thingy, which is again extremely flawed as a rationale

Who are the mefias luv? I didn't see you answer about your TRs either.

Where's your head at? Why do you keep poking at what I do when you don't even seems comfortable in outing a read list or something similar

[Joey_]

I vaguely remember being in this game.

I should probably replace-out, but then again that's not very nice to the game mods.

Don't be a pussy

If ure scum, take the L

If ure town, make an effort

[Joey_]

If ure scum, selfing and not saying a word will arguably helps your wincon much better in the long run than trying to meme a readlist while not team telling

[Joey_]

Ark replaced-out right? I just realized that it's bullshit because she said many times in game she was hyped about playing a non-newbie games

[Joey_]

Ark replaced-out right? I just realized that it's bullshit because she said many times in game she was hyped about playing a non-newbie games

That's the Adorable slot right now.

i did some detective works and i think it was a mix between the timing of the night 9-11th of december, being vla 11-13 and then site flaking a bit. It's most likely not AI

[Joey_]

@billy which one?

[Joey_]

Sauce, you never talked about your townread on wake

After his recent posting since my read list, and another reread, I no longer townread him.
In fact:
VOTE: Wake88

If anyone wants more explanation for this just ask, but I think it’s pretty clear.

Why, explains plz

[Joey_]

UNVOTE:

[Joey_]

@sauce

I am your one of your 2 scum-leaning slot and pushing on one of your ex-townread

Aren’t you 2nd guessing that I am lynching town?

[Joey_]

@wake you promised content, you haven’t delivered. Don’t you care to possibly change the opinions of town voting you?

You say we deserve this mislynch yet you have NOT put any ounce of effort since your come back of VLA. What do you expect? Change the minds of ppl by nothing nothing at all?

[Joey_]

By doing nothing at all*

[Joey_]

@wake make an effort or self, anything else is insulting our intelligence

[Joey_]

Wake really isnt going to deliver, is he

[Joey_]

VOTE: wake i am going to assume he is giving up

[Joey_]

@sauce why do you think i am mefia?

[Joey_]

Hes been L-1 and never bothered to claim, share reads or do anything constructive. Whoever is not voting, feel free to hammer

[Joey_]

My first loss in 2 years, i blundered that game pretty hard. I replaced out because I was disgusted by wake play at his lynch and just gave up efforting in a game where town doesn’t even give a shit.

Mafia played well in being neutral/non-controversial while town was especially hard to read this game. Well played to mafia.

@alim; i caught your logical step but I didnt think it was AI but it was; you were bussing while also shading town/pre-flip planning. You also faked a town slip very early on and I just haven’t seen scum fake such slip in years so I was biased. I also misread you interacting with content that wasn’t addresses to you as town being upset, but you were addressing content (iirc) about your partners and to manipulate the opinions of the town. Also that slip call was informed, i missed it. I was too busy trying to hunt other slots. Good game

@inv; erratic play but i couldn’t see your scum agenda, I think you were the less obvious mefia

@ark slot; i caught ark in like 5 posts via poe and meta, shouldve presses harder

[Joey_]

I never realized jiggly puff was in ark slot because the player base never got updated, shrugs. Soz to etho for fucking up

[Joey_]

I think I counted 4 or 5, but I also thought it was 9P for some reason, I'm in too many games atm

This might be a townslip. i think mafia would be more aware of how many players there are

@alim; its a t slip because you would instantly know its not a 9p setup by knowing you have 2 parters in the scum pt.