Mini Normal 2122 | Endgame

[clidd]

[clidd]

Reading soon.

[clidd]

Ok, I have some doubts:

1.

Why the difficulty in imagining the motivation for which

Rabid

had a FoS on you,

Chemist

?

2.

I would like

Luna

to clarify the reasons why she claimed in post 28 to have a

TR

on Rabid, and post 92 where she had a

TR

on Jake.

3.

Jake

, why can't

Rabid's

aggressiveness be

town-indicative

?

4.

How no one has an

SR/SL

on

N_M

(190) ?

5.

Rick

, why didn't you consider

Kage's

AtE exit before voting (260) ?

[clidd]

The most scummy player is

Not_Mafia

, in my opinion. I can't imagine such sporadic behavior as town.

[clidd]

The most scummy player is

Not_Mafia

, in my opinion. I can't imagine such sporadic behavior as town.

The specific post you quoted was actually +town equity. Serious question, have you ever played with nm?

No, I never played with him. That post wasn't town equity.

[clidd]

The most scummy player is

Not_Mafia

, in my opinion. I can't imagine such sporadic behavior as town.

The specific post you quoted was actually +town equity. Serious question, have you ever played with nm?

No, I never played with him. That post wasn't town equity.

Why does scum soft a role that is more often scum than town?
Why does town soft a role that is more often scum than town?
Why is either incentivized not to?

The second has a legitimate answer that isn’t “for the memes.”

While odds are that nm did it for the memes, the fact that there is a large reason for scum him to hold the information close to his chest means that, yeah, it’s more likely town than scum.

[clidd]

Ok, I'm going to presume that N_M is playing according to his town meta.

[clidd]

That should include voting at random, making no sense in his sentences and joke about being mafia.

[clidd]

That should include voting at random, making no sense in his sentences and joke about being mafia.

That’s fairly accurate, but it’s not exclusive to town him.

Hum, I see.

[clidd]

I would like Luna to clarify the reasons why she claimed in post 28 to have a TR on Rabid, and post 92 where she had a TR on Jake.

Iirc, for the first at the time, i just decided to buy into the "i have a provable town role" and figured it was a good basis for a page 1 read considering nothing else was going on and sheeped him off that.
For Jake a combination of 63, 69, 75, his overall tone, and i liked him more out of of him vs rabid. Which was settled into a townread on 88 and 90. Gives me he has that kinda "idgaf what you say about me, you're scum to me and i will fight you even if i have to die for it" attitude.

Good interpretation. In your opinion, considering a hypothetical scenario, would there be any chance of both being scum designing a theater ?

[clidd]

In your opinion, considering a hypothetical scenario, would there be any chance of both being scum designing a theater ?

No chance, that looked way too natural.

Ok, thanks.

[clidd]

Jake, why can't Rabid's aggressiveness be town-indicative

Bob asked me a similar question and I answered. Did you need something additional or did you just not see it?

I saw it, but I wanted to see her answer.

[clidd]

Who is her? Why are you wanting to see her answer when you asked me the question and I’m not a her

Sorry, I saw something different on the screen. Forget it.

I want you to complement the answer from before.

[clidd]

The most scummy player is

Not_Mafia

, in my opinion. I can't imagine such sporadic behavior as town.

Not mafia is a terrible mafia player. He never tries as town. I’m down to lynch him if a wagon formed but I don’t know how to actually sort him.

Imagining a lylo scenario with him is a headache. I can see his slot being used as a misslynch later (considering he's town).

[clidd]

He could be town but I think the thing that stood out the most was how he took something i said and completely twisted it into a BS accusation. That’s something i really don’t think town would do. It’s a conclusion that I don’t think town would come to. Also him trying to take credit for ending rvs (I don’t even know if he can make such a claim) comes off as LAMIST. All this could come from town but I just don’t think so.

Btw I hate that question. Every reason a person gives to scum read somebody, you can ask that question. There are no 100% scum slips. Everything posted in the game could come from town. You just have to make a judgement call based on your own opinions/beliefs.

I sympathize with your view. The only problem I have with his attitude is how risky it is. Considering that we have a large playerlist, it would be logically safer to focus on a neutral game on the first day, without drawing too much attention by being aggressive unnecessarily. In particular, I also performed a similar posture in a past game (as town), so it is likely that I am unconsciously inclined to not condemn such aggressive attitude.

[clidd]

The most scummy player is

Not_Mafia

, in my opinion. I can't imagine such sporadic behavior as town.

Not mafia is a terrible mafia player. He never tries as town. I’m down to lynch him if a wagon formed but I don’t know how to actually sort him.

Imagining a lylo scenario with him is a headache. I can see his slot being used as a misslynch later (considering he's town).

Oh it will be. Even in lylo he’s a nightmare. He can easily be mislynched. I’m fine lynching him but I’m not just going to policy lynch anyone just yet.

In the end I’ll vote anyone except myself.

Ok.

[clidd]

Risky in the sense of Rabid's aggressive attitude, not yours.

[clidd]

I also don’t worry about risk. I have no fear of death, being scum read, or really if people like me.

Imagine you have two options:

1.

Play standard without attracting attention in a game with many players;

2.

Play aggressive and get a lot of attention, being one of the main focuses of the day;

Which do you think is more advantageous for the red alignment ?

It wouldn't make much sense for Rabid to choose the second as scum. The risk is very high and the benefit is small.

[clidd]

Considering that he is not an ordinary player, of course.

[clidd]

Hide in plain site with 13 players ? not very smart.

[clidd]

But yes, it may work for how unusual it is. I wouldn't expect that from a scum.

[clidd]

I believe that asking for a replacement near the hammer is indicative of frustration, not necessarily that he gave up the game because he was discovered.

It would make more sense for him to consent or try through the emulation of AtE to reverse the situation. Entering the field of substitution is something quite different.

[clidd]

I am uncomfortable that we are not considering an N_M lynch today.

[clidd]

I am uncomfortable that we are not considering an N_M lynch today.

I don't disagree but my gut is telling me to tell you to let it go

Well, as long as it doesn't haunt me later.

[clidd]

I would agree with the lynch if my interpretation of the predecessor's exit from the slot was different. I believe that if we give Bingle more time, he can clarify these doubts.

[clidd]

N_M.

[clidd]

Both votes.

[clidd]

As much as I don't like Chk's reactions, he seems cognitively more capable than N_M, and can be better evaluated later.

Which is one of the reasons for the lynch preference that I indicated above.

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Rick Dalton
VOTE: Non lmh

Why are we letting this ISO float as well?

Maybe.
But I'm curious as to why clidd focuses on NM and ignores Non.

Who is he ? wait.

[clidd]

I had a visual confusion, I was seeing Nero instead of Non. I didn't notice his existence.

[clidd]

This is interesting, although their inactivity is different.

[clidd]

I will do a check on the meta of both tomorrow, to measure the accuracy of my read.

[clidd]

Im back.

[clidd]

I will do a check on the meta of both tomorrow, to measure the accuracy of my read.

Once this is done, I will be engaging in the current discussion.

[clidd]

Hi back
I'm Luna.

Always wanted to say that, but this is a post to inform that i wont have internet until tomorrow morning irl, tho the pace of this game is slow enough that it shouldnt cause any trouble.

Ok.

[clidd]

Non Imh:

At first glance, I found the time gap between his posts in this game strange. But when I took a look at his finished matches, 6 as town and 1 as mafia, I noticed that he has the same behavior in both alignments. The content of his posts, however, seemed more withdrawn on

Micro 916

, where he was

scum

. I noticed a significantly greater argumentative development in his games as

town

, as well as the transparency to show his opinions. If we focus on this aspect, it may not be so difficult to distinguish his conduct, but this is something that can be better done in the long run, as we will see how the events will impact his vision of the game and, from that, verify the authenticity of his opinions.

Spoiler:

Newbie 1976 -> Town
( viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81690 )

Newbie 1971 -> Town
( viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81510 )

Newbie 1967 -> Town
( viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81414 )

Mini Normal 2114 -> Town
( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81789 )

Newbie 1977 -> Town
( viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81730 )

Newbie 1981 -> Town
( viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81899 )

Micro 916 -> Mafia
( viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81889 )

N_M:

I read 3 of his past games, 2 as a town and 1 as mafia. There is a certain ''degree'' of lucidity in a select number of his posts as

town

, but it is quite difficult to pinpoint precisely. Most of the time, his attitude is naturally individualistic, never feeling the need to justify or explain a point under discussion. It is almost as if he is playing a singleplayer game, where the rest are npcs who must obey. I find it difficult to trust someone with such a volatile style, especially because of my difficulty in assimilating such attitude into a town mentality.

Notes:

Spoiler:

His reasoning as town:

Micro 905 -> Town
( viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81470 )

Fishy Logic is scum

QC is obvscum

Why has QC not been lynched yet ?

But QC is legitimately obvscum

I want to lynch Amrun because she's stuck in 2011

Guys I gamesolved already, let's end this please

VOTE: Not_Mafia

It’s not about the winning, it’s about dying in the knowledge that you gamesolved.
QC and FL are scum.

Making a joke about being scum being scum:

Micro 891 -> Mafia
( viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80971 )

I’m scum btw

??

Mini Normal 2066 -> Town
( viewtopic.php?f=53&t=79138 )

I believe the children are our are future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be
Everybody searching for a hero
People need someone to look up to
I never found anyone who fulfill my needs
A lonely place to be
And so I learned to depend on me
I decided long ago
Never to walk in anyone's shadows
If I fail, if I succeed
At least I'll live as I believe
No matter what they take from me
They can't take away my dignity
Because the greatest
Love of all is happening to me
I found the greatest
Love of all inside of me
The greatest love of all
Is easy to achieve
Learning to love yourself
It is the greatest love of all
I believe the children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be
I decided long ago
Never to walk in anyone's shadows
If I fail, if I succeed
At least I'll live as I believe
No matter what they take from me
They can't take away my dignity
Because the greatest
Love of all is happening to me
I found the greatest
Love of all inside of me
The greatest love of all
Is easy to achieve
Learning to love yourself
It is the greatest love of all
And if, by chance, that special place
That you've been dreaming of
Leads you to a lonely place
Find your strength in love

Conclusion:

N_M is someone I consider crucial to be lynched following the lynch policy, compared to Non, precisely because of the damage that, from my point of view, he brings to the game. Evidently, the fact that the majority is ignoring this demonstrates a collective interpretation of him that is different from mine, which I believe is a sign that there may be something that I am unable to see. In respect to this view, I will leave my option stagnant for today. At least, until I find a stronger evidence to justify my premature feeling about his slot.

[clidd]

That said, I would like a summary of the current situation involving Nero. I don't know much about the mechanics you're talking about.

[clidd]

Who is in the neighbourhood?

Me, Nero, kage/bingle.

Is there a statistical margin that proves that at least 1 player, as a rule, must be scum among 4 players ?

[clidd]

I remember seeing something similar in a past game.

There were masons and 2 players in a hood, both towns. In this context, 4 town players had access to a communication channel in two chats.

Mini Normal 2118:

( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82022 )

[clidd]

Well, nevermind. I believe that the conditions here indicate a different result.

[clidd]

Oh, yes.

[clidd]

Ok.

[clidd]

Hum, no problem.

[clidd]

Guys. Jake has good reads. Imma sheep him for now

What do you think about Kage AtE before leaving ?

[clidd]

screw it.

/replace I'll find something else. I can't even play video games for more than 10 minutes without physical trouble. But clearly I'll never be able to handle this.

I would suggest nulling anything I've said. It might as well be useless gibberish.

Guess I’ll take this as a replace Out.

This.

[clidd]

My theory is maybe rabid/kage team?

To me it looks like making sure you have a target as soon as a game starts

And I don’t know what gave you this impression. It’s clear by reading my posts I didn’t come into the game with a target in mind. So that’s another lie.

If anyone is guilty of chainsaw defending somebody. It’s definitely you. That’s why I think you/rabid are probably scum together, even if nobody agrees.

So you agree with this even even though you think that such reaction is genuine ?

[clidd]

I see.

[clidd]

The only problem I have with this is that I don't see what he would gain from leaving the slot.

This would not only be shameful for him if his slot was characterized as scum, but it also damage the read on the slot.

[clidd]

The use of the AtE as a device would make more sense if he remained in the game.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Sure, im expecting more from Bingle too.

[clidd]

I also want his opinion on the hood logic.

[clidd]

What is a joke ?

[clidd]

Hum, if we are not going to opt for a lynch among the hood, what is your suggestion for today ?

[clidd]

No, but thanks for refreshing my memory.

[clidd]

I find it interesting that if, theoretically, the statistical logic of 1 scum between players in the hood was correct, our chances would come out of 2/12 to catch both mobsters, and would go immediately to 1/3, this seeing from an isolated point, without considering the expressive influence of reads.

However, I agree that given the unpredictability of the setup, our considerations can change dramatically from one day to the other. So, in this scenario, it would be safer if we opted for a lynch outside that sphere of thought, with the aid of a supporting impression / read.

[clidd]

Yes, it makes sense.

[clidd]

Neighborhoods come with the operational assumption that there is 0-1 scum. Both ircher and RC (our reviewers) would heavy scumsided multiple scum neighborhoods. Therefore, in a vacuum, our options are lynch in 0-1/3, 2-3/10, or 3/13.

Given the Nash equilibrium values for 0-1 and 2-3 we could determine what the best option for our lynch pool was, but we don’t have that information readily available. Given that the implication in the signup thread is that TSE designed the setup himself and he’s had a history of submitting strange and subversive designs, I don’t have a read to be able to narrow that equilibrium down at all.

If we do hit scum in the hood, that’s positive evidence that all hood players remaining are town, which is an argument for lynching outside of the hood until we can make a more informed decision inside of it.

Tl;dr focusing on the neighborhood early is a trap, which is roughly the stance of RS as far as utilizing it but the opposite of the stance of RS as far as preferred lynch order. Since I don’t really have a read on Nero, I don’t particularly think lynching Nero is a great plan.

I am concerned now that you mentioned the TSE's history of irregularity, but I believe that, as you mentioned, it will be possible to clarify our doubts as new information appears.

I agree with your strategic vision of the hood, it seems appropriate to a game plan with intelligent use of resources. I also empathize with the fact that Nero is not necessarily a beneficial lynch, but that would depend on how well he manages to emulate discomfort when being considered as one of the lynchs. I'll take a look, later, to see if I get any meta on his profile to answer that.

[clidd]

Nero, how would you describe scum!you in a nutshell ?

[clidd]

Im back, let me see what I missed.

[clidd]

Guys. Jake has good reads. Imma sheep him for now

What do you think about Kage AtE before leaving ?

FWIW that started in his last game. I believe it's legit. Had a few PMs with him. He has medical issues and can't pay for treatment, his girlfriend who was also the breadwinner just left him. Guy's pretty much a wreck right now. I wish he would have stayed in just to give himself some escape.

Ok, good.

[clidd]

Clidd says a lot of words, but doesn't really say anything or push anyone.

Actually, there were 2 push-ups in a row:

N_M, which I left stagnant due to popular opinion, and the approximation of the hood's logic, where I reconsidered some points due to the interaction with Bingle. My typing is far from being in the substantial scope.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

so i know dumb tells are lean scum and it's anti-town to speculate on setup on day 1, but, uh, is there some amount of setup information i'm lacking? like how many mafia are in the game, possible roles, etc? and is there some way to gain this information legally without asking in the thread? since everyone else seems to know (or doesn't care?) it doesn't seem to be in any of the mod posts (speaking of which the flavor of this game doesn't seem to make any sense to me unless there is only one mafia or seth is a third party role?)

a lot of day 1 was consumed by the fight between rabid and jake, which seems to be common for jake but not for rabid. at least according to y'all; i haven't yet had the time to read any of their completed games. the aggression from rabid makes sense if rabid has a provable town role and a neighborhood outside of the game thread to discuss any information with since it serves the purpose of helping to determine the alignment of anyone pushed upon as well as helping to determine the alignment of those within the neighborhood. what is strange, though, is rabid's disappearance following the fight with jake, so i guess i'd like to ask nero and bingle if rabid has remained active in the neighborhood thread or if they've gone dark there as well. from jake's perspective, as far as i can tell, a prolonged fight with a provable member of town is expressly anti-town, but if this is a pattern (getting banned from a mafia forum is loose) it's likely ego and NAI. the fight pulled attention from rabid's push onto chemist (4 of chemist's 9 posts are direct responses to rabid, 1 is a hello, 1 is a naked vote of luna [assumed to be retaliation for luna's vote], 1 is a question posed to rabid about how important it is to clear yourself [which doesn't really make sense given that rabid said they could prove they were town], 1 is the retraction of said naked vote, and 1 [posted two days after the rest] is a gut read of not mafia)

really dislike OGI so i'm willing to nullify all of kage's posts. the only posts from bingle which stuck out to me were the discussion of not mafia's role with chidd which seemed, uh, anti-town at best? what possible benefit does that have from either of their perspectives? chidd's push on not mafia is frustrating in general since not mafia's posts show clear game solving when there are more than a handful of more or less non-participants (including seeming widely townread garmr)

Fake/Chemist/?

^^^ this posted at a time when jake was diffusing rabid push and taking the game away from any sort of productivity seems especially notable.

a few other quick notes:

i'm not convinced the bob slot could pass a turing test. feels like they reverse engineered the 20 questions bot and let it loose in a mafia forum so it out here posting aimless questions which have largely gone unanswered

i liked chkflip voting non for three naked votes and no other content but it consumes too much of their iso.

the arguments in favor of lynching within the neighborhood seem to be 1/3 to hit, if we hit we win since one mafia down and two confirmed town, which is much greater than random so definitely plus EV. though, once again, i don't know the possible setups so grain of salt. what does tomorrow look like if we vote within the neighborhood and miss? it seems unlikely a mafia within a closed subset would vote within that subset, but i'd like to hear more from rabid as to why they're voting nero or if this is just a gambit planned within their neighborhood.

VOTE: nero

When I try to read this, I feel like I'm drunk staggering from side to side. I'll give my opinion in this post later.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

It’s easy to appear town in a neighborhood. Especially with who your mates are. I can’t see what you’re saying or doing. That’s part of why I hate neighborhoods and masons. Too much secret conversations

so i know dumb tells are lean scum and it's anti-town to speculate on setup on day 1, but, uh, is there some amount of setup information i'm lacking? like how many mafia are in the game, possible roles, etc? and is there some way to gain this information legally without asking in the thread? since everyone else seems to know (or doesn't care?) it doesn't seem to be in any of the mod posts (speaking of which the flavor of this game doesn't seem to make any sense to me unless there is only one mafia or seth is a third party role?)

There's no setup information given other than it's a normal and so must follow the normal guidelines:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game
Note that those explicitly normal roles aren't the only possible roles in the game. There are other roles which qualify as normal if used in certain ways.

We don't know how many scum, but the vast majority of 1 player games are 10:3 (10 town, 3 scum). Since it's a mini normal we know there's exactly one scum faction. Third parties like SKs aren't allowed in mini normals.

a lot of day 1 was consumed by the fight between rabid and jake, which seems to be common for jake but not for rabid. at least according to y'all; i haven't yet had the time to read any of their completed games. the aggression from rabid makes sense if rabid has a provable town role and a neighborhood outside of the game thread to discuss any information with since it serves the purpose of helping to determine the alignment of anyone pushed upon as well as helping to determine the alignment of those within the neighborhood. what is strange, though, is rabid's disappearance following the fight with jake,

D1 aggression isn't abnormal for me as town. Unfortunately, I frequently become the center of attention and scum hide behind that. Plus in this case, I know jake will go on forever. So, once I town read jake, I backed off to observe others. Also just depends how busy I am at work.

VOTE: nero

You need to put that in bold or vote tags. p-edit: nm

Hum, nothing special.

[clidd]

VOTE: clidd

Why the switch?

Clidd's posting, and developments in the hood.

I would like you to complement this with a description of the reasons.

[clidd]

VOTE: trq

534 is god tier levels of gross. She shades like half the thread while avoiding making any real points about any of them, then sheeps a case she doesn't understand from one of the players she is shading onto a player she doesn't otherwise mention to put pressure behind a wagon that isn't the largest option.

I intend to verify this when I analyze post 534 more calmly, I'm on the mobile platform at the moment.

[clidd]

It’s easy to appear town in a neighborhood. Especially with who your mates are. I can’t see what you’re saying or doing. That’s part of why I hate neighborhoods and masons. Too much secret conversations

Masons are more strategic in the sense of communication, while hoods are an inferior simulation of this scenario.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

i'm reading rabid town? if that wasn't clear. i had a null read on both the largest wagon (chkflip) and nero, but i'm reading both not mafia and rabid as town and they were both on nero so i voted there. i'm going to follow rabid onto clidd now, since clidd was on the more egregious side of your discussion about not mafia's role and i'm reading rabid town and rabid has access to more information than me. rabid was also more than 50% of the reason i was on nero. from the setup info it seems that neighbors have a random chance of being mafia so slightly more than 50% to have one within the neighborhood if we account for rerolling any setups where 2 or 3 of the mafia are within the neighborhood. so instead of the 33% to hit from my last post it's more like 17% to hit from lynching within the neighborhood, which is less than the 23% to hit at random. probably what you meant by the doesn't understand bit. anyway,

UNVOTE:

VOTE: cliddVOTE:

"

i had a null read on both the largest wagon (chkflip) and nero, but i'm reading both not mafia

"

- If you don't consider them both mafia, you feel they are town, so how can you have a null read ?

"

i'm going to follow rabid onto clidd now, since clidd was on the more egregious side of your discussion about not mafia's role

"

- What was discussed was the behavior of N_M, regardless of his alignment, and the relationship of his slot to the benefit of the lynch policy. I don't see how this fits in as a justification for voting on me.

"

i'm reading rabid town

"

- I would like to know your impressions about the aggressive stance that he showed most expressively at the beginning of the game.

[clidd]

from the setup info it seems that neighbors have a random chance of being mafia

No, the game designer determines whether neighbors are town or scum. It's not random.

Is this true ? I don't remember seeing that piece of information in this topic or a quote on the wiki.

[clidd]

Well it's nice to be back to the internet.
I'm gonna miss your Jake alt Robb.

On other news, Idk why people find it so hard to read Nero, i always thought he was super easy to read.

Hello, I would like to see your read on Rabid and Trq, given the latest interactions.

[clidd]

hola, como esta?

I also want your opinion on Rabid/Trq.

[clidd]

[clidd]

I will be away for a few hours. Waiting for answers.

[clidd]

Within 30 ~ 40 minutes I will be home.

[clidd]

Im home, reading soon.

[clidd]

trq has a lot of words but doesn't sat much and he just sheeps rabid. so far I am not a fan

I believe that this must be a peculiarity of her playstyle. In particular, I do not consider it a strong indication for judgment.

As long as she demonstrates transparency and objectivity in the main issues, I have no objections to that. The sheep, however, is problematic. I don't think that if both were scums, she would automatically act that way right after replacing. It would be an additional risk to the pair's credibility, if any. The scum compatibility of both, in this case, is practically 0.

[clidd]

hola, como esta?

I also want your opinion on Rabid/Trq.

still scum read rabid, maybe he will do something to change my mind but at this point no point in pushing that if he is going to be able to confirm himself as town at some point.

trq literally just replaced in. I don't have a read on him yet as I haven't even read his posts

Ok, I see.

[clidd]

Well it's nice to be back to the internet.
I'm gonna miss your Jake alt Robb.

On other news, Idk why people find it so hard to read Nero, i always thought he was super easy to read.

Hello, I would like to see your read on Rabid and Trq, given the latest interactions.

Hello.
I haven't changed my stance on Rabid.
TRQ im not townreading.

Hum, null then ? what do you think about her posts ?

[clidd]

Hmm lets see what happens when I do this

VOTE: Chk

Check your move.

Garmr, I don't remember if you commented, but what is your current game vision ? TLs, SLs, TRs, etc.

[clidd]

Oh i also think Bingle's town, i think i forgot to mention that somewhere.

I had this impression when I noticed the circumstances in which the replacement in his slot took place.

Now I have more firmness that he is likely town by his reasoning about voting outside the hood mentality. It seemed genuine.

[clidd]

Is this true ? I don't remember seeing that piece of information in this topic or a quote on the wiki.

The vast majority of neighborhoods are designed with a specific town/scum proportion. Especially in closed setups, it doesn't really make sense to randomize hood composition most of the time.

That's not to say a game couldn't be designed with a variable neighborhood composition, especially an open or semi open, but they usually aren't.

As far as the meta of neighborhood composition, most of my recent experience with neighborhoods has been in Neighborhood heavy games where every player has a hood, so... Less than useful.

True, I hadn't thought that way.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

from the setup info it seems that neighbors have a random chance of being mafia

No, the game designer determines whether neighbors are town or scum. It's not random.

oh, so the numbers don't mean anything, and the people who want to lynch within the neighborhood simply think that the game designer is likely (would have to be 70ish% likely to = random lynch) to put mafia in the neighborhood.

Last time I searched (and I’ll do it again when I get to work) the percentage was higher than 70% one scum in neighborhood with 3 people.

is there a searchable database with all of the completed games played on site that includes their setup and role flips? it seems a lot to compile yourself

"i had a null read on both the largest wagon (chkflip) and nero, but i'm reading both not mafia"

- If you don't consider them both mafia, you feel they are town, so how can you have a null read ?

this seems a convenient abbreviation of that quote

i had a null read on both the largest wagon (chkflip) and nero, but

i'm reading both not mafia and rabid as town and they were both on nero so i voted there.

not mafia is a player in this game. my null on chkflip is a lean town but i'd like more content, as i said in my first post. my null on nero is largely due to the fact i have to reread their iso to recall much beyond animated avatar and had posted the most up-to-date vote count as of my entry.

i liked chkflip voting non for three naked votes and no other content but it consumes too much of their iso.

"i'm going to follow rabid onto clidd now, since clidd was on the more egregious side of your discussion about not mafia's role"

- What was discussed was the behavior of N_M, regardless of his alignment, and the relationship of his slot to the benefit of the lynch policy. I don't see how this fits in as a justification for voting on me.

The most scummy player is

Not_Mafia

, in my opinion. I can't imagine such sporadic behavior as town.

The specific post you quoted was actually +town equity. Serious question, have you ever played with nm?

No, I never played with him. That post wasn't town equity.

Why does scum soft a role that is more often scum than town?
Why does town soft a role that is more often scum than town?
Why is either incentivized not to?

The second has a legitimate answer that isn’t “for the memes.”

While odds are that nm did it for the memes, the fact that there is a large reason for scum him to hold the information close to his chest means that, yeah, it’s more likely town than scum.

and, this from my first post:

the only posts from bingle which stuck out to me were the discussion of not mafia's role with chidd which seemed, uh, anti-town at best? what possible benefit does that have from either of their perspectives? chidd's push on not mafia is frustrating in general since not mafia's posts show clear game solving when there are more than a handful of more or less non-participants (including seeming widely townread garmr)

In post 55, Not_Mafia wrote:
Fake/Chemist/?


^^^ this posted at a time when jake was diffusing rabid push and taking the game away from any sort of productivity seems especially notable.

and since then, bingle has made a clearing to possible clearing claim in the neighborhood (i assume), leaving only you involved in what seems to be a glaring anti-town exchange to me.

"i'm reading rabid town"

- I would like to know your impressions about the aggressive stance that he showed most expressively at the beginning of the game.

the aggression from rabid makes sense if rabid has a provable town role and a neighborhood outside of the game thread to discuss any information with since it serves the purpose of helping to determine the alignment of anyone pushed upon as well as helping to determine the alignment of those within the neighborhood. what is strange, though, is rabid's disappearance following the fight with jake,

feel like i answered this exact question in my first post. two of my last three posts have now been responses to people i wasn't town reading (though, again, i was likely wrong on bingle if "developments in the hood" are to be believed), which consisted largely of clarification and quoting myself. this is why i mainly asked questions to and about rabid. the games in which town is able to talk to town and simply push on other slots seem to be the games town wins.

''

not mafia is a player in this game. my null on chkflip is a lean town but i'd like more content, as i said in my first post. my null on nero is largely due to the fact i have to reread their iso to recall much beyond animated avatar and had posted the most up-to-date vote count as of my entry

''

- It would be interesting if you add the underline to correctly mention N_M.

- How is someone null and lean town at the same time?

''

the only posts from bingle which stuck out to me were the discussion of not mafia's role with chidd which seemed, uh, anti-town at best? what possible benefit does that have from either of their perspectives?

''

- I believe I answered that in the post 575. My intention was never to expose the role of that player, but to raise a discussion about his meta as town and scum. This would help me understand if he was, in fact, acting as expected for the town!N_M. In particular, I find it difficult to consider the behavior he displayed as a town indicator.

''

chidd's push on not mafia is frustrating in general since not mafia's posts show clear game solving

''

- Do they ? you must be talking about it then:

Spoiler:

I'm convinced

VOTE: Nero Cain

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm no

Kujo is definitely town

BBBBOOOORRRRRRRRING

I have a probably scum role

Wow this game got boring quick, back to shitposting it is

All my posts are +town equity, as I am town

- If you believe that, I suppose your concept of "game solving" is a little adulterated.

''

when there are more than a handful of more or less non-participants

''

- If you notice in my post 458, I compared the meta between two players that I considered options for lynch policy. Just as I kept myself open to other views, without ignoring anyone. So much so, that I stagnated my progress in N_M, precisely because I believed that other approaches would be better. This fragment seems to suggest that I was considering only one option, when in reality, I demonstrated that I was evaluating other possibilities.

Fake/Chemist/?

''

^^^ this posted at a time when jake was diffusing rabid push and taking the game away from any sort of productivity seems especially notable

''

- Ok, can you explain the reasoning that connects post 55 and the text below? what does N_M post citing two names with the alleged event have to do ?

"

and since then, bingle has made a clearing to possible clearing claim in the neighborhood (i assume), leaving only you involved in what seems to be a glaring anti-town exchange
to me

''

- Nonsense. It seems a fallacy that you quote that

''bingle has made a clearing to possible clearing claim in the neighborhood''

necessarily has the consequence of

"leaving only you involved in what seems to be a glaring anti-town exchange to me''

. I would like you to explain that part cohesively.

''

the aggression from rabid makes sense if rabid has a provable town role and a neighborhood outside of the game thread to discuss any information with since it serves the purpose of helping to determine the alignment of anyone pushed upon as well as helping to determine the alignment of those within the neighborhood

''

- Actually, the explanations for aggression vary. I have seen the same behavior being performed by VT players, without access to a communication channel. This whole pseudo-observation seems very generic and forced, especially due to the addition of the "neighborhood", which is a peculiarity that has already been mentioned publicly in this game.

''

feel like i answered this exact question in my first post. two of my last three posts have now been responses to people i wasn't town reading (though, again, i was likely wrong on bingle if "developments in the hood" are to be believed), which consisted largely of clarification and quoting myself. this is why i mainly asked questions to and about rabid. the games in which town is able to talk to town and simply push on other slots seem to be the games town wins

''

- I had a hard time understanding what you're typing. As far as I understand, you are townreading Rabid and are collaborating with him accordingly. However, your sentence:

'' the games in which town is able to talk to town and simply push on other slots seem to be the games town wins ''

seems to ignore the fact that there are not only 2 town players in the game. We are talking about 13 players, where the majority share the green alignment, so you need to interact and collaborate with other players if you want to achieve your winning conditions. The essence of the game is collective, so it makes no sense for you to insist on an individualistic approach.

[clidd]

It would also be interesting if you divided your lines in a more organized way, as this would facilitate our understanding of your point of view.

[clidd]

I mean I think the old quote and post works well. I have no idea what’s black and orange. Feels like Halloween

I couldn't get her reasoning in her natural post. My discrimination with colors seemed more enlightening.

[clidd]

Is this a mafia post or a series of movie reviews?

?

[clidd]

I felt an attempt to mischaracterize the post through humor / irony.

[clidd]

I compressed her post into the spoiler and selected her main posts to emphasize my responses.

[clidd]

mm at the moment im betting

flav and garmr are scum. will need to look closer at this game as ive struggled to get into to it

either taht or flav want us to think he is partnered with garmr

i smell oil

Bobs confirmed scum then, He's normally right on me so him to scum read me while i'm town makes him scum.

Links off past games to confirm it ?

[clidd]

Correction:

of past games.

[clidd]

Hum, null then ? what do you think about her posts ?

My mind keeps wandering and i have a hard time reading them, or rather parsing them.
As for null, i guess you could say that in a manner of speaking.

Surprisingly, I have a feeling of TL in her slot. It is so absurd what she is saying, that I find it difficult to associate it with purposeful behavior.

I intend to develop this hypothesis yet.

[clidd]

VOTE: Garmr

lets see see if i can make it 6 games that I correctly read you in row

4 town and one scum. I feel the ball will land on red this time

He already did.

I didn' see, thanks.

[clidd]

VOTE: Nero

[clidd]

VOTE: clidd

Why the switch?

Clidd's posting, and developments in the hood.

I would like you to complement this with a description of the reasons.

Did you forgot this ?

[clidd]

Did you forgot this ?

No. I have no intention of answering. All you're doing is asking questions in order to look busy.

VOTE: Rabid Schnauzer

[clidd]

I was expecting something like

''ok, I was wrong, Mr. Clidd''

[clidd]

You seem to be unaware of how my vote works. But yes, I found your reaction interesting.

[clidd]

A precise vote, for me, is better than several scattered. My personal opinion.

[clidd]

You seem to be unaware of how my vote works.

I know that I hydra'd with farside once, and she taught me that weak pushes without votes means scum, and that's been the story of your game.

This is a very simplistic thought. There are smarter ways to play this game.

[clidd]

I suggest a Rabid lynch today.

[clidd]

It is based on a lack of collaboration, a deflective stance and a lack of argumentative content to justify his reads.

[clidd]

We'll see.

[clidd]

I was townreading you initially, but I believe I can no longer see a scenario where you are town given these reactions.

[clidd]

I was townreading you initially, but I believe I can no longer see a scenario where you are town given these reactions.

Why would you expect someone to collaborate with a scum read? You're not going to go far in this game with that methodology.

It is not about methodology, but common sense. There is always a chance that your SR is town, so flexibility in approach is much better than aggressiveness. Especially if you are going to establish a communication channel to clarify your doubts.

I would say that it is you who do not go far in this game.

[clidd]

It is not about methodology, but common sense. There is always a chance that your SR is town, so flexibility in approach is much better than aggressiveness. Especially if you are going to establish a communication channel to clarify your doubts.

You're analyzing playstyle rather than motivation.

??

[clidd]

[clidd]

Ok, I'm going to step away from this game a little bit.

I return later, depending on my mood.

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

not a database. Good old CTRL F - viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29549

from this i found 7 games with 3 person neighborhoods, 5 of which contained 1 mafia, 1 contained 0 mafia, and 1 contained 2 mafia. there were also 1 game with 4 neighbors, 2 games with 5 neighbors, and 1 game with 6 neighbors, all of which contained 1 mafia. i don't know if the 5 neighbor games were split into 3/2 but the 6 neighbor game contained two 3 person neighborhoods, one of which contained 2 mafia.

6/7 or 7/9 > 70% but these aren't relevant sample sizes.

TRQ is trying to word count / effort town points and it's failing.

The vote switch when questioned is terrible as well.

you thought non was scummy for not participating and empty voting and you think i'm scummy for participating but you also said it's scummy for me to switch my vote and thus not scummy for you to keep your vote where it is so it makes sense from your perspective i guess.

- How is someone null and lean town at the same time?

i thought lean town was abbreviation for null leaning town. that's how i've always read it.

- If you notice in my post 458, I compared the meta between two players that I considered options for lynch policy. Just as I kept myself open to other views, without ignoring anyone. So much so, that I stagnated my progress in N_M, precisely because I believed that other approaches would be better. This fragment seems to suggest that I was considering only one option, when in reality, I demonstrated that I was evaluating other possibilities.

Maybe.
But I'm curious as to why clidd focuses on NM and ignores Non.

you only did this after luna brought it to your attention

- Ok, can you explain the reasoning that connects post 55 and the text below? what does N_M post citing two names with the alleged event have to do ?

not mafia linked the two as a potential mafia team for jake distracting from rabid's push on chemist very early in a way that would have very little mafia motivation for doing so other than to be townread for it, which, based on not mafia's other posts, seems unlikely. it's possible that i've given too much credit to this moment since i had the same thought reading the thread and that always comes with some amount of built in bias. still seems strange to me that no one else seemed to care much about the connection and then chemist disappeared from the game.

- Nonsense. It seems a fallacy that you quote that ''bingle has made a clearing to possible clearing claim in the neighborhood'' necessarily has the consequence of "leaving only you involved in what seems to be a glaring anti-town exchange to me''. I would like you to explain that part cohesively.

bingle says they've claimed in the neighborhood and none of the neighbors dispute this. just as with rabid, this should be read as town for now because the claims can be sorted out later. unlike rabid, bingle hasn't said they can prove themselves town which is likely why they've said they will have to be lynched later. if rabid is mafia he's already caught, which is why it's so strange to me that people have said they want to lynch him today. if it's an anti-town discussion and i'm reading one of the two people involved as town, that leaves the other.

- Actually, the explanations for aggression vary. I have seen the same behavior being performed by VT players, without access to a communication channel. This whole pseudo-observation seems very generic and forced, especially due to the addition of the "neighborhood", which is a peculiarity that has already been mentioned publicly in this game.

it makes sense to me that someone who has a provable town role and a neighborhood to discuss any results with would play very aggressively. that's not to say that other people can't play aggressively, simply that his aggression seems very logical to me.

No. I have no intention of answering. All you're doing is asking questions in order to look busy.

it generally feels like chidd is baiting me into mass replying.

it's very odd to me that rabid's other lynch targets did not gain any steam but here we are;

VOTE: chkflip

Yes, ok.

[clidd]

I think scum probably is TRQ/Clidd/Someone else?
100% sure a town would've seen the townslip from chkflip and confirm whether it was a correct townslip or not.
So with that said im lynching TRQ tomorrow.

[clidd]

I feel like we have 3 or 4 fewer players.

[clidd]

Trio of scums, honestly.

[clidd]

I don't normally bother with bad players, but dumb players are something that challenges my understanding.

[clidd]

I believe that I will be cutting this game off my list of priorities.

I've been overwhelming myself lately with many games.

[clidd]

Who’s TRQ?

Team Rocket Queen.

[clidd]

That said, leaving.