Mini Normal 2147 | Door Mafia | Game Over!
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Do you normally keep secrets that you accidentally "betray" when you are town?In post 262, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:
I made a mistake that betrayed my thoughts.In post 261, Clair wrote:Three accounts? You only quoted from two.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Why do you think I'm the same account as someone else. Do you normally accuse people of breaking site rules as a scumtell?In post 265, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Claire voted flair, and if they are the same acct we should do the opposite of what they want.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
No.In post 271, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:
Are you going to ask me this question?In post 268, Clair wrote:
Why do you think I'm the same account as someone else. Do you normally accuse people of breaking site rules as a scumtell?In post 265, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Claire voted flair, and if they are the same acct we should do the opposite of what they want.-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Let's accept that two players are impersonating me (which seems like an odd thing for anyone to do).
Can you explain why you would vote Blair over Flair?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
This is exactly what makes it a towntell.In post 318, Blair wrote:Maybe.Given that he was just saying what I'm sure several were thinking, I doubt he felt like he needed to run it by anyone.-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Yes, this is another angle that leads me toward Campbell as town.In post 322, iamausername wrote: like, if he genuinely believed that any of Flair/Blair/Clair are alts of each other, why no mention of this in his earlier posts?
But then, why not the same thing for NPOM? Do you think scum NPOM looks at the momentary confusion and thinks "This is a wagon I can ride all the way to lynch!"? Scum would have to know he'd need better reasons long-term and that any cheating accusations would get resolved.In post 327, iamausername wrote: yes, this.
as in, he saw Fred suggesting that Blair/Clair/Flair might be the same person, thought to himself 'i can use this', rubbed his scummy little hands together with glee and voted for Clair.-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
In that case, why would scum NPOM vote there at all? Why not keep his vote where it was? What's the scum motivation behind "Let me sheep this case"?In post 343, Blair wrote:
I disagree. I find scum routinely park their votes on weak wagons.Clair wrote:No, I'm assuming that scum only vote on wagons they will be able to defend long-term. Which is a reasonable assumption. Why would scum NPOM sheep a cheating accusation that's going to get resolved by a listmod?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Since this post received no rejoinder, I conclude that I've won the argument and expect Blair to change her vote any moment now.In post 348, Clair wrote:
In that case, why would scum NPOM vote there at all? Why not keep his vote where it was? What's the scum motivation behind "Let me sheep this case"?In post 343, Blair wrote:
I disagree. I find scum routinely park their votes on weak wagons.Clair wrote:No, I'm assuming that scum only vote on wagons they will be able to defend long-term. Which is a reasonable assumption. Why would scum NPOM sheep a cheating accusation that's going to get resolved by a listmod?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
I do not.In post 354, Flair wrote: Have a list of reads?
Right now the most active players have all read town and so I'm waiting for scum to make an entrance.Where're your heads at?
Blair reads like misguided town.Read on one another?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
No, traditionally when you have been defeated in an argument it is polite to say, "Thank you Clair, you clearly understand the game better than I do, I concede to your superior senses and will change my vote to match yours."In post 369, Blair wrote:I would contend nothing is inherently wolfy, but perhaps we approach the game differently.
P-edit: Have you forgotten that I am not, nor have I ever been, voting for NPOM?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
What about it am I supposed to note specifically? What moment are you referring to? It looks like generic RVS miscellany to me.In post 379, Flair wrote:Also, Firebringer's posts collectively still are not good.
His response to me once I started to kick off the game last night was extremely wolfy. If you missed that Clair, take a look, please. Blair's entire progression through and off of Fire also is concerning to me.-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
NPOM missing the subtext that Flair has already claimed to have never played on MS before. Not sure if this increases my townread or is an indication of mere forgetfulness.In post 397, NoPowerOverMe wrote:
Last time you played with Clair was there any angst on your join dates?In post 395, Flair wrote:
EBWOP: I haven't played with Clair* in forever.In post 394, Flair wrote:
Fair.In post 391, Blair wrote:I'm null on Clair. Like I said, if NPOM flips scum later on, I'll probably count that against her. She also deliberately prolonged a meaningless conversation about list mods verifying unique players.
I haven't decided yet if she would entertain topics like regardless of alignment.
I haven't played with Blair in forever so I have no greater meta understanding, which is why I'll lean on you both to read the other to an extent.
Oops! Spoilers. Regardless, if you're both wolves I imagine I won't live long anyway.
Carry on.
You're welcome Blair. I'm glad we've reached this understanding.In post 402, Blair wrote:Too many people are townreading Frederick for me to pressure him now.
VOTE: Flair
Thank you Clair, you clearly understand the game better than I do, I concede to your superior senses and will change my vote to match yours.
This is the most well-considered point anyone has made so far this game. NPOM looks pretty town.In post 406, NoPowerOverMe wrote:
Because of his identity to wallpost without substance. It gives the impression that he wants to look like he's having opinions without having opinions.In post 404, Blair wrote:Why Looker?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
In post 449, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:Here are where my scumreads are at present.
Albert B. Rampage
stan1ey
I was going to challenge NoPowerOverMe's points about Looker, but those points are indeed valid. However, I do not have a scumread on Looker because in the very least he has been posting and I don't think his behaviour up to this point is alignment indicative.
This answers my question of who would be the first to blink in moving off the Flair wagon.In post 475, Blair wrote:Seriously? As soon as I move my vote EXPLICITLY because everyone was townreading Frederick, his wagon takes off?
VOTE: Frederick A Campbell-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
No. I shaded you in 495, and also shaded you in 497.In post 501, Blair wrote:Did Clair attempt to shade me for "blinking" on the Flair wagon in 495 and then blink on the Flair wagon in 497?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
You said you bowed to my superior judgment on Flair and would sheep me. Seeing as you've changed your mind, I can only conclude that you were lying.In post 504, Blair wrote:Ay, my mistake. I foolishly assumed "blinking" on the Flair wagon meant leaving it, which you seemed to have done in 497. How silly of me!
Embarrassingly, I have yet to identify which part of that interpretation was in error - enlighten me?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
The objective here is to drive up a wagon and see who blinks first and for what reasons, like a game of chicken.In post 510, Flair wrote:You can call it OMGUS, or whatever you want.
But my wagon being the largest at any point in-time should certainly draw pause. Considering A) Nobody voting me at that time had made any legitimate attempt to engage with me beyond Blair (FB actively avoided and ignored me), and B) Not one explained why exactly they suspected me, other than FB. Which, he only explained several hundred posts after the fact, and could be boiled down to him not liking me for taking the game seriously.
(Which in my experience isn’t an offense, but clearly you all play very differently than I do.)-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
This explains why you jumped off Campbell and back onto Campbell but not why you jumped on Flair in the first place. So please answer the question again, less snark this time.In post 511, Blair wrote:
It does not require a particularly careful reading of my progression there (since I directly stated it) that I only departed from my Frederick vote because I wasn't getting sufficient support for it to mount a viable wagon.Clair wrote:
You said you bowed to my superior judgment on Flair and would sheep me. Seeing as you've changed your mind, I can only conclude that you were lying.In post 504, Blair wrote:Ay, my mistake. I foolishly assumed "blinking" on the Flair wagon meant leaving it, which you seemed to have done in 497. How silly of me!
Embarrassingly, I have yet to identify which part of that interpretation was in error - enlighten me?
It also does not require a very careful reading of the thread (because, again, I outright stated it) to see that multiple people immediately voted for Frederick afterwards - a significant change in circumstances!
You got me.
Can you please describe the scum motive behind me applying my vote consistently with my stated intentions, so that the rest of the Town can see how well you got me?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
This is so painfully a town post, there's no reason for scum to intervene here in my argument with Blair, whether Blair is scum or not.In post 522, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:What are you two attempting to achieve here?-
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Clair Goon
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
You want to interrogate Blair in a post addressed to me?In post 531, Flair wrote:
I’m curious to see what Blair learned by putting my wagon at the top. What does he think of those voting for me. What has he thought of my reaction. All that good stuff. Otherwise I think it’s nothing more than going through the motions.-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
No issue, I was just wondering why you'd pick Blair to ask when you were in the middle of a conversation with me.In post 543, Flair wrote:
It was a thought born in lieu of your suggestion that Blair and everyone else on my wagon was voting me as a means of grading the thread’s and my reaction.In post 540, Clair wrote:
You want to interrogate Blair in a post addressed to me?In post 531, Flair wrote:
I’m curious to see what Blair learned by putting my wagon at the top. What does he think of those voting for me. What has he thought of my reaction. All that good stuff. Otherwise I think it’s nothing more than going through the motions.
I was hoping he’d respond.
What’s the issue here exactly?-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
My opinion on Looker is a weak scumread. This may or may not change as Looker continues to post more and we see how people feel about the Looker wagon being so high up. It's still too early in the phase to say much more than that.
I have no strong opinions on Sakura or Firebringer. If I was to canvas for a second scumread, I might look toward ABR. But at this stage I'm comfortable with a few townreads (Campbell, NPOM, Clair, Flair).-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
In post 634, NoPowerOverMe wrote:If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
What I mean is that ABR's progression here is so preposterous it's almost too preposterous: voting for a case on which he won't elaborate, then claiming it was RVS, then claiming noticing that contradiction is scum. This is too ridiculous, why is it even an argument? It's possible this is town ABR not caring or throwing out some elaborate reaction test, or that ABR is scum and skipped straight to the part where he outs himself.In post 635, Looker wrote: So is Blair scum or no?
But I can also imagine, in a paranoid corner at the back of my mind, ABR deliberately being this obtuse so he and a scumbuddy could get into a contrived argument. It's not a theory to act on just yet but is something I will keep in mind for future phases.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Flair: I too would like to know why you are voting Blair when you have complained that Blair is the only player you have been able to talk with in real-time to your satisfaction.
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
NPOM is right. It does not matter how valuable ABR is as town if he is, in fact, scum.In post 646, NoPowerOverMe wrote:So, according to you, we either keep you alive because you are "too valuable late in the game", or lynch you as scum and you "win".
This sounds like an appeal to authority or appeal to emotion, or both.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
This list feels so safe that I am mildly suspicious of it. Not only does it avoid taking any hard stances but I think it avoids addressing many of the controversies that set the pace for the day. (Including: Campbell and NPOM pouncing on my "cheating," Blair vs. ABR, Looker being run up to a high wagon and writing as if he was about to be lynched, etc.)In post 671, Firebringer wrote:here is a reads list with general vibes so far
Town: [in order of strength]
Sakura - mentioned earlier she got dat townassi mean feels. fl her interactions.
ABR - the pure rage dynamite house that is ABR. He gonna rock this game like a hurricane i got that feels.
Looker - Idk. Doesn't seem like he is just making shit up. So thats points to him.
Blair - She doesn't really scream town but i enjoy her posts so i say town
NPOM - I like he wants to sheep my tr sakura. Don't like him fighting abr. He is prolly pro town this game.
Flair - I think i should townread him harder. He annoys me in those ways only a person that can be town usually can. altho thats prolly personality conflicts.
Null:
gobbles - like that he scumreads me. Don't like it feels weak.
Clair - This person is in this game. Has a thing for Blair. Might be scum.
stan1ey - Who dis
Fredrick A Campbell - hard to get a grasp on what he is doing or thinking.
Flavor Leaf - how does one read this guy again
SCUM LEAN-
iamausername - generally don't find his posts useful-
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Clair Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
In post 689, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Michael Jordan didn't win a championship his first 7 years. Everything worthwhile takes time, including theory development. You've lived your life looking for easy answers because you haven't found the inspiration or committed the time to attain greatness. If I have something I want you to know, I'll post it right here. For now, what I want you to know is that Blair is scum.I've explained why.I may change my mind later or I may not. You may vote whichever way you like, and all of it will help me break this game apart like Bane did Batman's back.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
I am still comfortable with this townlist, but now I think I'd like to lynch ABR or Firebringer, no RVS about it. Firebringer just avoided my poking at his lazy reads list by turning it into a vote for me, and ABR apparently has discarded his objectively amazing skill that had lead him to 1v1 Blair just a moment ago.In post 557, Clair wrote:My opinion on Looker is a weak scumread. This may or may not change as Looker continues to post more and we see how people feel about the Looker wagon being so high up. It's still too early in the phase to say much more than that.
I have no strong opinions on Sakura or Firebringer. If I was to canvas for a second scumread, I might look toward ABR. But at this stage I'm comfortable with a few townreads (Campbell, NPOM, Clair, Flair).-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Mhm, so your Blair read was wrong because it was page "20", and now that it's page "21" your read on me is... better?In post 717, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
No respect whatsoever for my game lolIn post 711, Clair wrote:ABR apparently has discarded his objectively amazing skill that had lead him to 1v1 Blair just a moment ago.
If you believe someone is so good they can catch scum in the first 20 pages, I've got some bad news.
It takes time and inspiration. Skill alone isn't enough.
This is a troll, I think I can comfortably ignore everything coming out from this account now.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
That being said:
VOTE: FireBringer
I think we're past the RVS stage of mindlessly driving up wagons and sheeping whatever idle suspicions strikes players' fancies. I'm going to push this wagon now, for a few reasons:
* Firebringer's reads and inquiries have been lazy and safe for someone who's posted this much.
* Firebringer deflected the chance to respond to this point when I raised it by turning around and voting me.
* Most of the big arguments so far have felt town-driven, so I'm instinctively more suspicious of players who haven't really been in them.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Not even going to call it OMGUS? I'm disappointed in you.In post 733, Firebringer wrote:I support wagons on me. Good work Clair.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
I don't really know you enough to say and don't enjoy seeing people criticize themselves so aggressively. You do enjoy playing mafia and have been playing it for some time? Because I don't really believe you are really that "bad".In post 738, Firebringer wrote:
I am the worst player here.In post 736, Clair wrote:
Not even going to call it OMGUS? I'm disappointed in you.In post 733, Firebringer wrote:I support wagons on me. Good work Clair.
But if you're town, please work a little more with me here, because "I am the worst player here" is not an argument that would make me reconsider lynching you.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
@Looker:
I don't typically like readslists, I think they are an easy way to look busy and never as consistent as people want. People tend to remember readslists very strongly which I think encourages people to misunderstand each other. They can be useful as a sort of last will when I expect I'm going to die.
I prefer to townhunt and be vocal about my townreads. Then it becomes easier to develop a strong scumread or two, which are the only cases I think are seriously worth pushing.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
I think several players have consolidated on me because out of { Clair / Blair / Flair } they like me the least, which isn't saying much because I'm not being compared to the game at large. I don't take it personally. This will all blow over when the town realizes that ABR is not the best player in the world.In post 809, Flair wrote:
@ClairIn post 801, Firebringer wrote:NPOM is sheeping Sakura who is sheeping ABR who is sheeping me.
I like it.
What do you think of all of this?
Following that chain, which player is the wolf? I understand you may have given reads on several of these players prior (I know you're voting for FB currently), but I'd appreciate another look within the context of several sheeping another.
The scum here is still Firebringer, I don't think NPOM has a scum motive to wagon me when he was safe where he was. Sakura I'm less sure.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
All right, I make it a point not to scumread anyone who townreads me Day 1.In post 843, Flavor Leaf wrote: I actually believe I like you the best out of the Air-Club
Tell me, how does that compare to the rest of the town? How do the Clair knockoffs look next to everyone else? (Much more fashionable I suppose.)
Several players have explicitly noted that they are voting within the set of { Flair / Blair / Clair }. It's not AtE to notice that. Thinking some more I think half of the game is still just out of RVS, while the other half was active earlier and is a little further along. I'll give it some time before I treat this as a serious wagon.In post 883, Looker wrote:
I feel this is an AtE, but I'll respond anyway. I'm not voting you because I like you least; I like [insert name here] least. I'm voting you because I can't make up my mind which one of {Flair/Firebringer/Clair} is scum and I trust your wagon the most.In post 817, Clair wrote:I think several players have consolidated on me because out of { Clair / Blair / Flair } they like me the least, which isn't saying much because I'm not being compared to the game at large. I don't take it personally. This will all blow over when the town realizes that ABR is not the best player in the world.
The scum here is still Firebringer, I don't think NPOM has a scum motive to wagon me when he was safe where he was. Sakura I'm less sure.
Which begets the question -- why do you feel constrained between {Flair / Firebringer / Clair } ?-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Do you think Flair is lying about skill level or just lying about being new to MS?In post 887, Flavor Leaf wrote:@ABR - That last game, when i was getting vibes you were using the "FL/SS new player" shtick to warp gamestate, I believe Flair is doing a similar play with this kind of stuff.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
This is an interesting theory but I'm not sure I buy it. Can you explain what about Firebringer made sense at first? Most of his early ISO looks like RVS and fluff until he starts sheeping/buddying ABR on Blair.In post 894, Looker wrote:In post 886, Firebringer wrote:
Why u ask?In post 883, Looker wrote:Do you give up when you feel you're not respected?Because I feel one of the -lairs hurt your feelings and you started intentionally trolling. You were making sense to me beforehand.I didn't agree, but I could see you were trying.-
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
Yes. It would be the first such case and probably your first real contribution to the game. (Pity it will be a bad one.)In post 910, Firebringer wrote:DO I NEED TO FUCKING SCUM CASE CLAIR FOR U PEOPLE-
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Clair Goon
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- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
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- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne
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Clair Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 311
- Joined: June 4, 2020
- Location: Belmont-sur-Lausanne