Mini Normal 2153: Post-game

[UnaBombaH]

clown Fredrick A Campbell

+

evil Galron

+

bunny Isis

I THINK this might be reason enough for everyone to just Vote instead of coming up with words..

VOTE: Galron - I've got a feeling.

[UnaBombaH]

i made a couple of unwise rulings in my attempt to lead the noble and venerable town bloc last game; gypyx and renaissance/klick slipped through the cracks early. we weren't punished for it due to excellent night play, but i intend to conduct a more rigorous screening this time around.

i think i'll be able to read you well enough, though.

..and not just excellent nightplay, but one UnaB calling you town when no one else saw it, AND calling out 2/3 scum as well..?

hello people of the town.

i am well rested; full of coffee, left-over dal, and wild ideas.

the scum don't stand a chance.

VOTE: bob - easy target.

VOTE: bob
I will sheep our tireless leader.

No, not another game with a Hoopla-led townbloc..

[UnaBombaH]

Just finished a game with a chunk of this playerlist, but still met some of them only for the first time there.

Bellaphant is sort of a legend, right? Or am I mixing them up with someone?
@Bella - you used to have a drawing of a Mafioso-type person as your avatar, right?

Isis - has to be an alt, right? Is it common knowledge whose this is?

Sujimichi is not very well known to me, but I've definitely seen their avatar elsewhere before.
It caught my attention in the Queue-thread already.

Galron is a complete mystery to me so far.
Don't know if it's an alt, or a newer player.

Everyone else I've played with at least once before, and believe to be able to scavenge "extra" something from reading them..

[UnaBombaH]

Oh wow, found you already?
popsofctown?

[UnaBombaH]

There's no way our mod is able to keep this up throughout the game.
It's not humanly possible.

[UnaBombaH]

I think Klick is scummy but I wish he wasn't because I like him.

I don't feel like I can explain it well and that bothers me.

I'm not as good at mafia as I used to be.

This could've been posted by me and would be quite accurate.

[UnaBombaH]

Did everyone confirm at all?
Don't we still have people who haven't posted at all?

[UnaBombaH]

Nevermind, ALMOST everyone HAS posted.
I just hope this game doesn't have to deal with multiple chain-replacements or lurkers.

[UnaBombaH]

I do not currently have the creative spark to just whip something up - to create content for contents sake.
Therefore I read these first pages with a comically large magnifying glass, and I feel like there are two reasonable targets for my vote so far.
geraintm and Klick.
And since Klick is the one of them who at least has votes on them, and I'd like to participate in actually getting something rolling, I'd normally vote there.
BUT.
gera is 1/2 of the players voting Klick.
Therefore I'm going to vote gera instead.

VOTE: geraintm

[UnaBombaH]

Just ask yourself how queen hoops would handle lurkers

I now we are still in the early phases of the game, but I would actually like to try and challenge you a little for some interactions.

We just shared a game together, and I think it never actually got to this, BUT...what would it take for your read on Hoopla to shake?
You were absolutely fine with their townbloc starting at the early pages of D1, and never had to second guess your read.
Now you've entered another game, and you seem to be fully trusting them already.
What's with that?

Do you have a lot of experience playing together, is it a "soulread", or is it all really very surface-level?

[UnaBombaH]

happy with my vote

On Klick, right?

I also disagree with a gera vote.

Then what about Klick? I do not honestly get any vibes from anyone else as of now.

As for what it takes for me to lose it? If the tone falls off I think will be a big tell.

And you feel confident enough that you'll be able to call it if/when it happens?
I got a solid town-vibe from them last game, and I still called their bloc flawed for including slots like renaissance.
I was able to separate our differing reads from my read on her, and like I said at the end of last game - I'm curious whether I'm able to do it this game too..

[UnaBombaH]

I don't think I'm going to be able to accurately read Hoopla until like Day 3 at best. Until then, Hoopla is a consistently good influence on the gamestate and probably won't be getting executed today.

I mean, even I wouldn't want them executed early on - I'm just being very wary of them, and notsciences self-confidence..

[UnaBombaH]

Una is gamblers fallacy right on you this time

Was it you who called that last game too?
What did you even mean by that given the context?
I know what it means, but if we are talking about the last game and that one post that stuck out to me, it felt out of place then and there.

[UnaBombaH]

What's bothering you about me, Una?

I'm not sure if it's tonal, or what.
I had the same feels last game as well, although you were closer to redeeming that slot last game than your predecessors..

It feels like you are less on offence here(?) - which seems like a clear difference to me.
But then again, if you were to roll scum twice in a row, I guess you'd try and mix it up as well.
Dunno.

[UnaBombaH]

BTW, I do not think bob is scum.
But I also want to see what the three voters on bob do with their time in this game.
I especially have an underlying appreciation for town!Dunn. I think.
People change their avatars so often, and I remember them better than names, but I have come across Dunn multiple times during my stay here.
And I think they are able to show their skills as town, meaning that reading them correctly shouldn't be too difficult D3->.

[UnaBombaH]

I take it given your interactions with me you think I’m town, una?

I'm hesitantly giving you a reluctant nod towards that general direction, yes.

[UnaBombaH]

Have you ever seen Paramore live, btw?

[UnaBombaH]

Your last 7 games had been town. And now 8.

Its a not to serous vote. Joke about it being based on the logical fallacy.

didn't even realize I had such a streak going!
Well, your fallacy will have to keep growing for at least one more game then.

The fact is, when I had multiple scum-games within a short time-span, I won a lot.
But I also wore myself out completely.

[UnaBombaH]

Have you ever seen Paramore live, btw?

Once or twice.

They were pretty good, middle of the pack for bands I’ve seen live. I hated ain’t it fun until I saw it live

They've had crazy good energy every time I've seen them.
My ex was a huge fan, and I was sort of "dragged along" to the first gig.
The last two I only pretended to not enjoy it as much.

It's just that I've always been a metalhead first, and everything else second, so I can't share these guilty pleasures with my friends..!

[UnaBombaH]

I think Una is likely town. It was hard to pretend he wasn't obvtown last game and I'm getting the same vibes here.

Good.
Remember this a few days down the road when I'm being wagoned by scum.
Even if you end up being one of them.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm a 90s kid so Fall Out Boy and Panic at the Disco were playing a LOT when I was in school.
They fall into the same "guilty pleasures"-cabinet.

I've seen so many bands live that my top10 would almost be filled with bands I'd guess none of you have ever even heard of, BUT...
Another surprise hit for me was 21 Pilots.
They had an insane show in Finland a few years back, and I'd actually put it in my top5 of all time.
Same with Arch Enemy last summer.
Never been a fan of either of them before, but after just one live performance...damn.

[UnaBombaH]

I had to go and check why I think Dunn is a very good townplayer.
THEY ENDED MY WIN-STREAK BACK IN 2018.

I had three scumgames withing close range of each other, and I had already decided to take my break from the site after that specific game, and it started with my teammates being lynched D1 and D2.
I got to D7 LyLo but Dunn hammered me.

No doubt they are very good, but my vanity might be getting the better of me here..

[UnaBombaH]

OK, I need to get some sleep now.
Very soft and careful townleans on notscience and bob for now.
Not going to vote for Hoopla today, but I do not think they should get a free pass after D2 at most.
I'm sort of conflicted on Klick. Them admitting a townread on me might be a different approach from the last game, or they simply might be more honest with their reads.

geraintm, Dunn, Bella and Isis need to be sorted to feel more comfortable about my shaky reads above.
And I need to check my history with Isis (pops) the same way I just did with Dunn, but that has to wait until tomorrow.

Good night to everyone.

[UnaBombaH]

I didn't switch from RVS? Been on una the entire game?

You still think I'm the best target for your vote?

[UnaBombaH]

What do you expect from bob?

I've been in a game where he was active enough day 1 as town to step in and try and stop a wagon that was about to lynch smeone they thought shouldn't be, and was high profile enough that they then got themselves lynched.

this game....not like that at all. very passive

I believe I've seen bob do the other route as town too.
And I'm going to withhold judgement at least for now.

[UnaBombaH]

That actually seems pretty sound lol.
He feels a lot more quiet/jokey than he did last game too, and in the game he was in that I modded.

VOTE: bob3141

I do not like this turnaround.

Bella come back to this wagon. Turns out all you needed to catch scum was one word

And this worries me even more.
If bob is the designated mislynch for today, then scum have actually been active already, and aren't lurking like one would like to assume.

[UnaBombaH]

Also - if we flip bob and they are indeed scum, you are not allowed to use any of this against me.

[UnaBombaH]

Why are we wagoning someone with four bad posts as a counter to someone with 11 bad posts?

+++townpoints for Bella.
I really feel like bob is the wrong choice of the two anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

You think scum already have a designated mis-X in this gamestate?

Not necessarily, no.
But what I was seeing there, was a wagon that got a few spread arguments "for", and a couple "against", but it seemed to be gaining traction anyway.
Sometimes it's hard to say whether it's the ones providing the arguments, or the ones who give in to them and sheep the votes, but I often smell scum in wagons like that.

[UnaBombaH]

I didn't switch from RVS? Been on una the entire game?

You still think I'm the best target for your vote?

Color me confused.

Benefit of the doubt, you missed post 230 waving at you from above.

Yea, whenever I'm "behind" on the game for more than a few posts, I refuse to read what's at the end and instead start "catching up" from my own latest post and comment on whatever catches my attention.

[UnaBombaH]

Well, I couldn't argue against it that much because it was just my personal gutread up until recently.
But Galron went for gera instead as well, and I think there's something to that.

[UnaBombaH]

I can.
And I'm not trying to get into a posting contest right now, but you are starting to give me scum-pings with almost every post again..

Why did you think it was necessary to immediately devalue my townread on that post by Bella?

[UnaBombaH]

What I'm currently thinking though, is that there's max 1 scum in Galron-gera-bob.
Might even be none.
And I'm trying to figure out who's pushing for what and why.

[UnaBombaH]

@hoops trade gera for Bella and I agree

Sell me on Bella?

Oop, oop oop... Big red flag for me, this one here.

[UnaBombaH]

Geras pretty town I wouldn’t be voting him tbh

I’m just positing that’s part of why Bella’s in the pool because I don’t feel anywhere near as confident about them as hoops.

gera is the likeliest scum in bob/gera/galron IMO.
And Bella seemed rather obv.town for me so far?
So, ummm..

I’m still okay with my bob vote

No.

ok, should i get on this bob wagon?

No.

idk i think bob is mislynch bait, im not feeling it

Yes.
I'd argue this looks good from popopopo.

[UnaBombaH]

And mind you, everyone, I'm not a HUGE fan of "townblocs" in general, and I would be scolding Hoopla for this one as well (like I did last game ), but I think this is just how they play as town and they need it either for solving or entertainment purposes.
Me being a part of this bloc of Hoopla this time around is neither here nor there.

I WILL be calling out Hoopla if I smell scum on that bloc, but so far they have at least been more reserved with how they include people in.
And one good example of them doing better than what I was afraid of - notscience not being included in their latest townreads just because they have a "solid townread" on Hoopla.
I'm not saying they've outright become a scumread for me, but they are definitely teetering on the edge..

[UnaBombaH]

@una

is notscience scum? i don't want to believe it. i think it would break my heart.

Dunno.
I'm more concerned about flippy this game tbh.

[UnaBombaH]

Or he's scum and doesn't want to seem overeager, which yields a similar reaction. You pointing this out made me a bit suspicious of him.

I think I made my point clear last game, and I believe I've said this multiple times around Boonsky as well. (I believe he sometimes went for these early townblocs as well)
I do not believe in townblocs simply because it's not the same thing as having mutual and all-inclusive townreads all around inside the bloc.
It's more about one person inserting themselves at the top of the hierarchy, and everyone else relying on their judgement before sheeping.
And since this is literally the second game in a row where Hoopla does this, I felt the need to point out the difference in where I stand regarding their bloc.

Last game I was out of the bloc, and called out my scumreads within it.
That lead to me being somewhat scumread D1, but I didn't mind, because it opened up discussion and we found some mutual ground with Hoopla still.

This time I'm included in the bloc, AND SO FAR I think the bloc is all town.
My original stance on blocs hasn't changed though, and I'll be keeping a close eye on who Hoopla includes in the group.

While I dislike the fact that you went all the way to the end of the reach and pinned me as scummy for saying this, I still like the fact that you are saying something.
I just hope this doesn't end up being your only contribution to the gameday.

[UnaBombaH]

BTW, did Hoopla do that on purpose?

[UnaBombaH]

geraintm (5): UnaBombaH, Galron, popopopopopopo, Hoopla, bob3141

I'd argue this is a good checkpoint for a wagon indeed.

[UnaBombaH]

@hoops trade gera for Bella and I agree

Sell me on Bella?

Oop, oop oop... Big red flag for me, this one here.

I for one am shocked you are scumreading me again it’s almost like we have a playstyle clash we learned about last game

Could be, but I can't help but get pinged by that post.
You are bargaining for gera to be in the top townreads, AND you ask for arguments why Bella should be town.
It's these two things together, especially when Bella had just been talked about.

Felt like you weren't paying attention, or just trying to force-feed something to Hoopla.
Their own reaction to this, and your followup?

@una

is notscience scum? i don't want to believe it. i think it would break my heart.

He actively scumread me all last game hoops why, of everyone in this game, trust his read lol

First of all, apparently Hoopla saw something similar there. Or they are the one actually gaming me here, but I'm trying to avoid paranoia for now.
Second of all, this reaction from you again feels like bargaining.
Is it once again the feel of a soulread that makes you so certain Hoopla is town, AND that they should and would agree with you?

I really am trying to understand you here.

[UnaBombaH]

Hoops your wagon has only one of your townbloc how could you be comfortable with it

Regarding this btw, I really want to see where Bella goes next.
I really do not see Galron being todays lynch, but Bella seemed to think gera isn't a good lynch either (??).
I wonder if we are able to compromise on someone reasonable here.

[UnaBombaH]

@notscience - what do you think of these two posts in conjunction with each other?

^una steadfastly resisting the town bloc invitation.

okay okay, we get it. you're town. there's no need to convince us further with this coy display.

just relax and accept the rightful privilege afforded to the town bloc elite.

+

Or he's scum and doesn't want to seem overeager, which yields a similar reaction. You pointing this out made me a bit suspicious of him.

Looking over t heir iso more closely, doesn't it seem like he''s maneuvering in a way where he sets himself up to suspect a few people, or pivot to certain players, while calling others town, it feels manipulative to me.

Like in 153, and 287 for his suspects

VOTE: UnaBombaH

Do you think there's anything AI happening here from either?

[UnaBombaH]

It’s because we were in lock step last game that this new game not being there feels weird.

I can definitely see this being an irritation.
Especially since the last game literally just ended.

And yes, clearly klick and hoopla saw *something* but rather than ask me they just agreed with you, and that irks me but I’m not sure it’s AI

So you think it might be AI for them to see something scummy in that post, like I did?
I'm not sure why it should annoy you if multiple people find something you say scummy.
If anything, I'd just mark it down as an "interaction" between four slots, and then maybe return to it with some flips for info.

[UnaBombaH]

Maybe dunn in the red but nothing re hoops.

It's just that how Dunn jumped at it..
I get a feeling they were waiting for an opening, and I was just wondering whether Hoopla was literally trying to give it to them.
Guess my reaction to a silly reach was a tinfoil-hat.

That interaction aside - Dunn hasn't been able to do many towny things yet.
I'm also worried about Flippy being able to push themselves up to speed.
They had a good role that they played well last game which actually helped a lot, but I wonder what they'll be able to do if they don't have any results to share this time around.

[UnaBombaH]

Regardless I’m not backing down re gera this wagon is ass

Well, I do not want to lynch bob.
Bella is definitely able to do valuable things later, AND they happen to agree with me on things, so I do not want to go there today either.
Dunn? I'm certain he can be valuable to us later, and should be obv.scum if he isn't. (D2/D3)
Flippy hasn't done much either, but...and I know this is silly but...I really like having them around with all the gifs and the pics and the such.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh I assure you it is in all seriousness

..for notscience and Hoopla that is.
I just use it as a reference point on who Hoopla is townbinning..

I'm not sure if I'm as certain of Hoopla either, as I was last game.
But I guess my read on them felt better D2 there as well so..

[UnaBombaH]

@una, valuable things? Where's your evidence? I think you have me confused with someone, genuinely maybe Bella?

Wait, seriously?
I really do have you confused with someone with a similar name? (not Bella - something much closer to Bellaphant I'm sure)

[UnaBombaH]

OK, I'm not even going to say out loud who I confused you with.

But I'm sure you are a good enough player anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

Bella is definitely able to do valuable things later, AND they happen to agree with me on things, so I do not want to go there today either.

Do you think she's probtown or you just don't want to vote her for these strategic reasons?

It's gonna sound selfish, but honestly, her townreading me and agreeing on Klick is valuable enough to me right now as to not want her lynched.

I do think she is town as well, but wouldn't put my head on the line for that yet.

[UnaBombaH]

Im starting to develop a mild scumread on Hoopla

So I'm not the only one feeling suspicious..
I'm not sure if it's a tone thing, but their latest few posts feel off.
I'd need to do some comparisons to last game, again, but I do not have the energy for it.
But last game I had a solid-ish townread on them even if not everyone saw why.
I do not feel it the same way this time around.

[UnaBombaH]

@Una:

What would an Una scumgame look like here? Can you give me some perspective on how you play differently as town vs scum?

Well..I'd like to argue I can imitate my townplay as scum well enough..?
It's more about getting people to believe me and trust in me.
Being a PR always mixes things up, and I pretty much always drop crumbs everywhere to show them late.
And they are rarely very simple. But they are there.
This is as either alignment, mind you. ^^

I often get underestimated by scum, so I'm very rarely nightkilled, and often pushed for as a lynch either early early, or in LyLo.
So again, me being scum wouldn't change that much either.

This specific game is going to be difficult for me anyway, I can already see that, but I have a plan.
Hope that scum will try and play ball with me this game.

[UnaBombaH]

As soon as I started calling certain people scum there was a perceptible shift in the way people started treating me

Want to point out your results?
And do you think those reactions were from scum? (because your call-outs were glorious)
Or is there perhaps a slight chance for reactions to be based on your posts being shaky?

[UnaBombaH]

You and UnaB and it looks bad for you and neutral for UnaB

There's a notable lack of responding to things from Isis where I expect one

Hoopla's push on me is bad

So you had been questioned about this already. A decent assessment I'd say.
Why do you think notsciences reactions looked bad while mine only neutral?
Was it the actual content-matter provided, or just how you expect town!Una to react vs town!notscience to react?

[UnaBombaH]

That following notscience-Dunn -interaction is def. not S/S if you ask me.
From post 414 to 427.
Def. worth a look later as well.

[UnaBombaH]

Quick throwaway stream of consciousness before I have to focus on work.

Galron hopping off the gera-wagon at this time.
Perhaps because they really don't "feel it" anymore. Might be because of the notscience-Dunn -interaction?
Maybe because Hoopla DIDN'T want to leave the wagon?
Also noteworthy - didn't replace the vote yet with anything. Might need an existing wagon to join.

In contrast: Hoopla is unwilling to leave the wagon, and claims it's a hot one..!
I'd argue that it was stalled down right before reaching the L-1 and claim levels of temperature.
Again, could mean nothing. But could also be just scum!Hoopla wanting the claim..?

I'm thinking there's something here with the existing wagon.
Because if you look at the latest votecount, ALL OTHER VOTES are spread out.
Could this be an all-town wagon on a mislynch, and scum are trying to scatter and stay off?

[UnaBombaH]

UNVOTE: - I locked myself out of my apartment.

[UnaBombaH]

So I finally got inside last night, and I was so pissed off and exhausted, that I almost immediately fell asleep on the couch. Whoops.

i have been questioning my intuition more than usual this game. as a consequence, i've let extra levels of paranoia into my game; my read on you perhaps affected by that.

i like that we have found common ground, though. i suspect a scumlynch of a mutual read will help reestablish friendly relations.

This here is the reason why I feel a little bit paranoid about the both of you.
I can't decide, yet again, if you are both town with some good mutual reading-abilities, OR if one of you is able to pull some heavy wool over the others' eyes.
I do not think you are both scum, because that would be some disgusting acting considering your interactions.

[UnaBombaH]

Gera, una (but I’m a little annoyed I’m going to have to argue against his scumread me all game again), klick, you (?), flippy

I don’t have a hankering to lynch isis or Galron but I wouldn’t argue against it either

This list isn't the worst.

[UnaBombaH]

I really want to know who Galron is an alt for.
Their posts ping me from time to time, and I'm not sure if it's because I think there's an agenda or forced tone there, or if it's just because there's something familiar.

I think I'm considering townleaning notscience again, and after some consideration, maybe even above and in place of Hoopla.
Gonna have to reread Hoopla later too.

I have a bad feeling about Dunn to be honest.
Not because I outright think they are scummy, but because I thought I understood what they were going for with their "scummier" posts earlier.
I thought they were trying to stir the pot and scavenge some reads from that, but I feel like they already gave up on that? Right?
I expected him to keep up the pressure at least for a little longer.

@Dunn - are you still very much satisfied with your vote on Bella?

[UnaBombaH]

Yeah, I'm not sure I want Dunn lynched today either. -_-

Someone wanna volunteer?

[UnaBombaH]

I think Hoopla is a better lynch than Dunn for now.
I'm just not sure if they are the best possible lynch for D1 either.

Flippynips.
I really, REALLY want you to post.
I know you aren't much into D1's anyway, but you haven't even started to try.
In our latest game you did a lot of things right, and when I just checked, it took less than putting you at L-1 to get you to commit.

VOTE: EmperorFlippyNips - get in here and do some work.

[UnaBombaH]

OK, fuck it.
I'm gonna join this, but I won't be the one who gets crucified tomorrow when she flips green.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: Hoopla

[UnaBombaH]

I believe we're at the modern version of L-2.

E-2?

[UnaBombaH]

And I STILL absolutely need Flippy to get in here.
I'm afraid they are scum here, and they want to remove someone who knows them well enough N1 before actually starting to participate.
And the replacement for Sujimichuka has done nothing of value either.

That's two potential lurkers starting to slide from the get go, and I've lost enough games to lurkers already.
I think D1 should be reserved for them unless we find someone who is blatantly scummy.

I'm still not sure Hoopla is that.
The same way I don't think Dunn or Bella are.
But I do think the wagon on Hoopla is the towniest one so far, so I guess I'll play sheep for today and see where that lands me.

[UnaBombaH]

Although Una's position around the eviction is odd. 'not my fault' 'why not a lurker' etc....

Yea, I know it in my guts they will flip town.
But my gut have been wrong before, and I do not see another reasonable lynch rising to the table now that this wagon feels like it's mostly town.

Those exact quotes from me are more about venting a building frustration.
Either my lingering gutread on Hoopla is wrong, or my townreads might have been false.

[UnaBombaH]

I still agree spiritually just the speed of the wagon is giving me the heebie jeebies

Well, me too!
But like said, I believe the 1st part of it was mostly all town.
Dunno.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, even if I said those things and AM still doubtful, I don't think unvoting there was the right thing..?
Hoopla needs to get here, give her reads on people and discuss the wagon anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

Why can't I remember anything popopopopo has said so far?

[UnaBombaH]

I am not enthused by Galron so far. His only take has been liking Hoopla's content and the

rest has been fluff

.

I mean..coming from you? The bolded part?

[UnaBombaH]

High Fluff High Content > Medium Fluff Low Content

I don't know why people pretend fluff subtracts from how much content someone has posted, game after game.

Don't be a flareon

Wait, wtf?
I didn't call fluff bad.
Just them calling fluff from others bad.
At least by implication.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, lot of quality shit from Hoopla.
Not in the AI-sense necessarily, but exactly the kind of thing people can expect from her.
That being said, I really dislike the earlier unvote from someone.
And the fact that bob seemed now to be implying scum!Una because I townread them? Or did I misunderstand something?

Anyway, I've been drinking a little, and need to get some sleep now.
I'll try and wrap my head around my reads sometime tomorrow.

[UnaBombaH]

Like, fuck me for being negative, but I feel like I've already compromised by joining the Hoopla-wagon and now it seems to be overwhelming to push it over the finish line.

[UnaBombaH]

I for one am shocked you disliked something I did

Hey hey, don't be like that.
It's just that I don't think it was a good time to unvote for anyone.
Don't necessariöy thik it was AI.

[UnaBombaH]

I think Dunn has made "brave" pushes.
Against the current in a way?

I think my earlier assessment that he is stirring the pot is fair.
I'd like to think it's a towny thing to do because it gives people something to talk about and forces others to reconsider their stances.
My only problem currently is that we have pretty much started to run up almost every slot in the game so far with only a few exceptions.
And I do not see a clear choice for a D1-lynch anymore.

[UnaBombaH]

@notscience - you seem to have a rather pessimistic view towards my posts regarding you.
I guess I have sort of deserved that since I at least lowkey scumread you throughout the last game.
But can you see why that makes me wonder whether it's just you being defensive?

[UnaBombaH]

Yes I am, and I pointed to why

I thought they were trying to stir the pot and scavenge some reads from that,

I kind of was with Isis/Hoopla. I think some of the things Hoopla has been pushing is questionable

Is it fair to say that you'd be most pleased with a lynch within Isis/Hoopla/notscience?

[UnaBombaH]

Probably.

I’ll try to phase out of it I just think we have playstyle clashes

Agreed.
Now let's both try and look beyond that and maybe look for a reasonable lynch.

What do you think of Dunn scumreading you?
Does it feel like a natural process to you?
I have a clear opinion on their slot as of now, but I'd like to hear your opinions first.

[UnaBombaH]

My feeling is that they are intentionally holding back a little, and succumb to surface-level reads because of that.
The way they have stirred conversation always feels towny to me, but might actually turn out to be something upon a red flip on them later.
Because what it has managed to do everytime, is that our (meaning the vocal minority/majority creating wagons atm) focus has either shifted or halted.

I literally feel like I've been manipulated to scumlean almost every slot in the game so far, and I'm not sure if it's just my old habits of having a tinfoil-paranoia, or if someone has been pulling the strings.
I believe Hoopla might have been the one, as much as I believe it could've been Dunn.
Yet neither of them seem outright scummy to me, which makes me think we might've been on the right track already with the earlier wagons we had.
And then just succumbed to overthinking.

[UnaBombaH]

^^they keep commenting on my use of emojis, and nothing much else has caught my eye.

[UnaBombaH]

For what it's worth I think you are both town.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm still on Hoopla, and I'm trying to see a reasonable alternative that would actually lead into a lynch.
If Dunn and Bella can come to an agreement, then I'll put in extra effort to make notscience agree.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm honestly too lazy right now to fact check or quote them, but I can try and explain the feeling I got.

It felt to me, like Dunn was at the root of some new angles and pushes that drove the dialogue forward.
And when I say push, I don't mean just a vote or an actual big wagon forming.
I mean them putting their effort and words to use to out reads others hadn't made yet.
Maybe giving an alternative to an automated sheeping that would've otherwise occurred.

That kind of thing.

[UnaBombaH]

@galron, your poat about the wagon feels like info, not analysis - who's jump on that wagon feels scummy/badly positioned?

Una's.

Wait a minute - based on what? You preflip associating?
I now have nasty feeling about this wagon with Galron dropping posts like this, and then joining the wagon anyway..

[UnaBombaH]

Okay..?
So Hoopla has been having...substancive..changes to their play recently, eh? Eh?

[UnaBombaH]

I do not understand that Isis unvote -> revote.
I thought I got the unvote until they revoted with...words.

I still think Galrons stance on this wagon / my vote on Hoopla makes little sense to me.
They are either thinking Hoopla is going to flip scum -> me joining the wagon means something OR they are thinking Hoopla is going to flip town -> me joining the wagon means something ELSE.
You can't just say my way of joining the wagon was the scummiest (or however it was phrased) without considering the implications Hooplas flip is going to give.
Or I mean, you CAN, but then you'd be arguing that no matter what Hoopla flips, I'm the bad guy here.

I don't think that's a rational way to read things.

[UnaBombaH]

I don't get it

You don't?
I thought I was making a pun of sorts.

[UnaBombaH]

Is that sort of the same thing where you are just strolling along, minding your own business..BAM

[UnaBombaH]

Ok.
UNVOTE:

[UnaBombaH]

I'm annoyed and tired.
Will come back with ~something~ at some point.
Meh.

[UnaBombaH]

I too want to flip popo, especially since it feels like everyone except for Una who has posted recently, who hasn't been on the wagon, has been strangely opposed to it

Yea, I do not necessarily object to it, but I'm not too excited about it either.
I'm feeling sort of uninterested with the game now. That Hoopla-claim makes it literally antitown to keep my vote on her, since her claimed role should be confirmed.
But I just have this solid feeling it's a scum fakeclaiming, and they are now living on borrowed time.
Dunno. I wasn't particularly scumreading them before, but I joined the wagon anyway.
And anything and everything they said afterwards only sold scum!Hoopla to me more.

So all of this other stuff sort of feels like filler to me right now.

[UnaBombaH]

Would scum!Hoopla try and create a counterwagon for their teammate, or actually name their teammate for distance?
Just pondering, not going to actually affect anything until we get some flips, but...

You know, this is giving a vibe of a divide between popopopo+Hoopla / geraintm.
Right?

[UnaBombaH]

The only reason why I'm wondering, is because scum!Hoopla would already know here that they aren't going to be cleared by their claim.
You do understand that, right?

So assuming scum!Hoopla, anything and everything they say from that claim onwards is already WIFOM.

[UnaBombaH]

Yo ho ho. I notice you've cut down on the emojis, Una. Might that be a subconscious aversion because of what I was saying? €;

Literally just missed this.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: popopopo

[UnaBombaH]

I must go...with the flow..
If this flips red, I do not see Dunn/Isis ever being scum here.

[UnaBombaH]

Is it that hard to use pronouns

What do you mean by this?
And why do you keep repeating it? (honestly don't understand)

[UnaBombaH]

Is it that hard to use pronouns

What do you mean by this?
And why do you keep repeating it? (honestly don't understand)

Numerous people in the game use the opposite he/she pronoun for someone, or use "they" for someone with a marked preference. The former is more jarring.

I'm constantly using "they", because I believe it's a rather "PC" way to address anyone and everyone.
I'll use preferred pronouns when I'm

absolutely certain

I know what it is, and don't have to check it every time I'm writing a post.

The problem with remembering them, is the same reason why I'm very bad with names. On this site, and IRL.
Instead, I remember avatars similarly to how I remember faces. I think I'd recognize almost every single person I've ever met just by their face, and that gives me at least a vague context on who they are/were and what they did. And this comes from me after living for near 30 years, and working in customer service / sales for over 10 years.
With avatars it's a little more difficult than with faces though, because often I'd connect the avatar to a different pronoun in my head, than what their preferred one actually is.
And since I'd rather be "safe" about it than hurt anyones feelings, well..that's why I use "they" a lot.

Also the added excuse of not being accustomed to having to navigate the newer and more rare pronouns people sometimes prefer.
I Finnish language we don't have any.
When we speak of "someone" in the same way of he/she - we use the same word for all genders and ages.

[UnaBombaH]

There are some anti-town

looking

roles circulating the games now as well.
Roles I'd never claim as town because I know how they'd be perceived by other townies.
I'm not entirely sure how such roles add into the whole balancing thing, but more than rarely those have been the kind of setups that have been the most swingy too.

[UnaBombaH]

scum - replacement,

una

Wait what?
I'm scum to you bob?

[UnaBombaH]

What the damn hell??

What does that even mean?

[UnaBombaH]

Unabomber is scum with hooplah and he will receive the friendly neighbor visit tomorrow.

This is someone who has read this mafia game

You two have got to be kidding me.

[UnaBombaH]

And just to be frank - I am not going to get any friendly visits from anyone this game.
Even trying would be a waste.
I keep my door closed tight.

[UnaBombaH]

His main scumread was me, and I’m very well aware I’m town.

Maybe low info wifom kill?

"Mommyy, notscience is making scummy posts again!"

In all seriousness though.
You feel comfortable just drawing this conclusion out of nothing?
Or is this an actual "established" path to take in games?

Typically kills like that means scum is comfortable with the game state which means we are way off.

I feel very much comfortable with Hoopla being scum, and we have all the necessary power to push it through once they fumble tomorrow.
But your way of thinking here implies town!Hoopla?
I do not like the idea being thrown around based on the kill being "low info".

Just my two cents.

[UnaBombaH]

Porkens made a good catchup, even if their reads are necessarily off.
Now this in combination with what Isis and notscience are currently selling makes me feel a bit uneasy.

[UnaBombaH]

Why do you think my posts are scummy?
Why do you even consider me scummy here?

I thought my reads have been rather open, not taking into account how the day ended.
Until that Hoopla-wagon I was feeling good about my reads, and when I was fully sold on that one, we all have to back down.
If you can't understand my mentality there, I can't help you much with your read on me.

I currently have a rising feeling that a combination of you/Porkens/notscience are trying to hard-sell an Una-lynch for today, and I'm most definitely gonna fight that.
"Scummy" or not.

[UnaBombaH]

No, notscience is actually still town here.
I think I understand where they were coming from.

Upon checking RFS's ISO from D1, I still do not think they have made any substancial effort yet.
And I have a feeling they might actually be a rather experienced player hiding behind that gimmick-alt.
Would explain why they've been so "chill" with their posting so far.

[UnaBombaH]

I think you're a better lynch after we get confirmation that Hoopla is mafia.

Wait why? I want them lynched as well!
And I'd like to hear this from Porkens as well.

Why would scum!Hoopla suggest scum!Una?

And while you're at it,

apparently town!Hoopla would suggest town!Una somehow then?

How/why/what?

A lot of your posts seem too narrative to me but it might be a toneread. I'm not sure.

If this is your main grief with me here, I'd suggest you go and check pretty much any of my older games for reference.
This is my town game, and it's almost certainly a tone-thing then. (tounthingthen)

[UnaBombaH]

This post is what triggered me re: you and hooplah

OK, I can see that. The background here is that we JUST finished another game where Hoopla did this exact same thing, and they were town.
And that game they scumread me until I was confirmed as town, while I was one of the few who were able to see the towniness in their actions.

This time, I didn't read them as scum either, per se, until that wagon formed and I joined out of "don't know what else to do anymore".
Everything they posted after that just made me feel more like I was in the right spot.

[UnaBombaH]

So every one who voted pops in that awful wagon can you go over why you voted him. And what benifit you thought lynching a lurker would do for town?

I'm fine with admitting that it felt like the "next best wagon" after Hoopla claimed. And mainly because people had already started to group up there.
Hoopla felt like the only reasonable lynch yesterday after everything that had transpired, and once that was denied, I honestly didn't care too much.

You going on a "holier than thou" -path here doesn't do anything for town though.

[UnaBombaH]

Now that's an unquotable readlist one can't find with ctrl+f when looking for a specific players name..

[UnaBombaH]

I'm currently liking Galron for town, way ahead of gera at least.
And I'm yet again baffled by Isis.
They dodged my questions by saying they were intoxicated at the time(?).
They put me and Hoopla still as scum together(??) at the bottom of their list.
They said popopo seemed like a good lynch yesterday because Hoopla seemed to not want that, and now they follow Hoopla onto a Bella vote.

This can't be OK with everyone else, right?

[UnaBombaH]

I have on of my (really not-so-)famous gutreads on Bob, that makes me want townbin them hard for the rest of the game.
It's just that their reads need some fine-tuning.

@bob - do you think you'd be able to accept me as town for now, and work with me here?

[UnaBombaH]

But the way she aimed to townbloc you day 1 ties you together, there's too many patterns in the style of the way it was done for me to think it was a fakeout the way popopo was, so I think you are scummier when/if she flips scum.

Bullshit.
By the way you have just described Hooplas play, this exactly what scum!Hoopla would want to do.
And yet you feel certain this time it's not just them laying the groundworks for a lategame goose chase?

VOTE: Isis - so much cherrypicking within in their Hoopla-read.
I can definitely see Isis+Hoopla being a thing.

[UnaBombaH]

And ffs.
Now it makes sense - the stubborness for a Bella-lynch.
It starts with "Hoopla townbloc'd them", and ends with "they are scummy in other ways too".
And after Bella flips town, then Isis and Co. have to flip their buddy in Hoopla, but they get right back on track with "Una is scum because Hoopla townbloc'd them too".
They know Hoopla goes down tomorrow, and they are just lining up lynches in the meantime.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: unabomber that rings contrived to me

No, this is me getting riled up because it makes no sense to pair me with Hoopla like that.
YOUR answer to my question Porkens, and the quote you used made way more sense to me.
Because it was my post.
You quoted a post I had made, and I can see how it could be interpreted the way you did.
But what Isis is doing here, is they are moving me into a scum pile because of what Hoopla has said and done. On a VERY visible surface-level. Before they have even flipped.

You must understand the difference.

[UnaBombaH]

It's more about me having a very strong feeling that Isis is acting scummy here.
That has to be combined with my other very strong feeling - that Hoopla is scum here as well.
Since both feelings are strong, and don't feel like they'd obviously and outright contradict each other -> they are scum together.
Unlike Isis, I'm not making a pre-association read here. I'm just saying Hoopla is scum, Isis is acting like scum, and them both being scum doesn't seem far-fetched to me.
Especially considering how Isis is aiming to lynch Bella->Hoopla->Una currently.
Unless I'm mistaken and Bella is scum here, that would give us a town, scum, town -sequence of flips, and the scumteam would've gotten the most out of Hooplas claim already.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, and I'll be the first to admit my mistake here if Bella flips scum/Hoopla flips town, but I'm honestly not seeing either.

[UnaBombaH]

Because we can't lynch Hoopla yet!!
They have put themselves on a timer, but it's the kind of timer where we can't kill them before it's run out either.

They have claimed a role that is very straight-forward in the way how it's confirmed.
Lynching them before D3 would be stupid, we all know that.
So me calling them 100% scum here is sort of stupid as well, I know, but I believe I'm not alone with my assessment of their claim.

[UnaBombaH]

*übershrug*
You are either scum or so wrong.
Either way you are trying to ruin my game and I dislike it.

[UnaBombaH]

Yeah but what if u get a friendly neighbor claim ? Then what

What do you mean?
If Hoopla were to visit me and I actually got greetings from a friendly neighbour?
Well, like said.
I'd first admit to having been wrong, and then focus on solving the game with the new information I've been given.
But I'm not stupid or delusional - one of Una/Hoopla would still need to be flipped for most of the playerlist to be able to move on and accept that claim. And that's not gonna be me, so.. What do you want me to say?
Unless there's like a Cop-clear on Hoopla + successful neigbhor-visit to someone else, I'll probably want Hoopla dead anyway.
I would likely demand a Hoopla-lynch tomorrow, no matter who claims to have gotten the correct visit from them.
And if they flip friendly neighbour, we get a conf.town out of the other one, right?

But this is all theoretical because I will not receive such a visit.

[UnaBombaH]

..and Una was out with friends two nights in a row for the first time since september last year.
So not gonna be posting much until ~24h from now.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm reading this back-and-forth between Bob and notscience, and trying to decide whether this could ever be T/T or S/S. And if this is T/S, who is in the right after everything's said.

See town doesnt say this.


This alsmost always comes from scum. Who are being bashful about the fact they think town simply will not lynch them.

This post caught my eye as the first one that felt very "flimsy". Town most definitely says things like this. Especially when it's directed at a scumread of them. It's to provoke a reaction, mainly a vote, from the other person. The harmful thing this can achieve however, is an 1v1 "to the death" between two townies. When it becomes two pigheaded townies throwing shit at each other, or playing chicken, both often end up saying "scummy" shit.
Hence why I think you should both take a step back and re-assess your reads on each other before continuing. Meanwhile the rest of us need to think if this can be two people sincerely misreading each other, or if there's really scum on either side of the fence.
I've been thinking both of them are just town, but a lot has been thrown for these past pages.

[UnaBombaH]

I get the feeling you are both town (just gut)

Could you guys just entertain that idea for a few posts and see if you have any mutual scumreads?

OK, apparently porkens reads this similarly.
Well good, maybe I'll just get called a newsreader again, and not outright scum.

[UnaBombaH]

bob3141 (3): Replacement for Sujimichi, Isis, notscience

Just picking this up for myself for later - unless bob is scum here, no way is this all town.
So far my suspicions have been on RfS's lurky playstyle, but the way Isis started the day got me on my toes.
So if bob is town, one of these two is most likely scum.
If bob is red, I don't think it's too likely that either of them is bussing though.

[UnaBombaH]

i still like bob for town. his latest burst has been refreshing. due to tone? perhaps. or perhaps i just like that someone is going toe-to-toe with the cheeky notscience. please keep it up.

i am too scared to lead the charge on notscience (don't want to get called "bucko"), so will be requiring a strong town hero to make the first move. will it be you, bob?

OK, I know I'm being biased here, but this actually sells me further on town!notscience.

[UnaBombaH]

actually, this will do for now;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: unabombah

my bella vote looked very pointless.

I think you shouldn't be allowed to vote today. Wtf it this even.
If you manage to flip green this game, I'm not so sure I want to play any more games with you.
But if you flip red, town!Hoopla is still fine in my books.

[UnaBombaH]

Sell me on isis una? I’ve liked most of their posting

The way they picked up your first posts of the day.
Felt like they were spinning it to fit their own agenda of scum!Una.
And setting up lynches beyond Hoopla tomorrow.
And when I asked for more, they were only able to come up with "maybe it's a tone-thing".
OK, I know they aren't voting for me as of now, but that almost makes me scumread that earlier push more.

They got nothing more out of it, but manufactured shade on me.
And if they get their way, bob flips today, Hoopla tomorrow, and Una after that.
That automatically screams "scum agenda" to me, and makes me feel even more certain about town!bob.

[UnaBombaH]

Starting to think flippy just doesn't want to put the work in as scum.

Yeah, I'm a little worried for Flippy as well. I believe in their ability to do things as town, but it seems this isn't one of those games..

[UnaBombaH]

Is this a scumslip? It reads like a weird perspective scumslip. Una needs to die either way though

How on earth do you twist that to a scumslip?
I'm starting to feel exhausted with you.

I've said it multiple times that Hoopla is scum in my eyes.
If they SOMEHOW manage to flip town, I'm not going to be very happy with their play here, hence "I'm not sure I want to play with them anymore".
If on the other hand they do flip scum (like I still assume they will), I'm fine with the games I've had with town!Hoopla.

No slips, nothing deeper there.
Their vote on me is ridiculous (as is yours), but unlike you I'm not "allowed" to vote Hoopla until tomorrow.

[UnaBombaH]

Isis is scum or way out there with their read on me.
Somehow they manage to cherry-pick scummy vibes out of everything I say.

I think the bob/notscience 1v1 is pretty plainly TvT and should be used to solve the game.
It certainly shouldn't be used for "guys I'm not sure which mislynch off of this is most likely to go through, could you guys signal which one you're sympathetic to before I commit?"
I don't think this game is really hard anymore and people are treating it like it is and it's weird.

Gee, I wonder how long it will take to understand how Una

really

reads that situation.

When it becomes two pigheaded townies throwing shit at each other, or playing chicken, both often end up saying "scummy" shit.
Hence why I think you should both take a step back and re-assess your reads on each other before continuing.

^^trying to get them to re-assess instead of forcing us into a 1v1.

I've been thinking both of them are just town, but a lot has been thrown for these past pages.

Literally saying I've been thinking they are both town, but the amount of shit they threw at each other needs further reading and interpreting. NOT SAYING we should lynch either.

bob3141 (3): Replacement for Sujimichi, Isis, notscience

Just picking this up for myself for later -

unless bob is scum here

, no way is this all town.

Maybe my english is worse than I thought, but I'm

implying

here, that I still think bob is town.

So far my suspicions have been on RfS's lurky playstyle, but the way Isis started the day got me on my toes.
So if bob is town, one of these two is most likely scum.

And finally here. Notice how out of the three of you,

I'm NOT singling notscience out as a potential scum

?
Because I believe they are both town.

So get the hell out of here with your "scumslips" and "no one noticed I voted one of my townreads".
Yea, I didn't notice or

care

what you did with your vote, because from my PoV bob is still town, and you are scum.

[UnaBombaH]

For the record I think threatening to blacklist people contingent on their alignment tends to use factors outside of a game to win the game and shouldn't be allowed.

Again, you are twisting my words a little.
I'm not blacklisting anyone, and haven't blacklisted anyone on site ever.
What I'm saying, is I'm not sure I

want

to play with town!Hoopla more if this is how poorly they can perform.
Specifically in contrast to the end of last game where I said something along the lines of "I'm looking forward to playing with them more".

[UnaBombaH]

Una if I'm town who do you want to exile

My current solve feels like Hoopla+Isis+*lurker*.
Simply because it feels like we are running at walls and bouncing off to uncharted directions.

IF you are town, I have a tinfoil-theory that no one likes.

[UnaBombaH]

..and in my defense, I rarely succumb to that.
I'm just feeling exhausted with Isis here, and I fully admit it's partially my own fault.
¨
I can usually keep my composure much better, and can admit to flaws in my own townplay.
However here it feels like they are reaching so much just to be able to call me scum, and somehow she has managed to get under my skin.

[UnaBombaH]

What a bad wagon every vote is basically naked.

Yeah, well.. Like said.
It felt like a "necessary substitute" for a wagon we should've gotten.
And while it may have been a stretch to go for popopo just because Hoopla didn't seem to want it, popopo wasn't being very active or efficient either.

I do not think it was a bad D1-lynch compared to some lightning-wagons I've seen (that have been all town mind you), but definitely inferior to a Hoopla-lynch.

[UnaBombaH]

Thinking about this actually pinged something in the back of my head.

I like this wagon, just the right amount of resistance from notscience who is trying to appear ambivalent to it. If you're into Hoopla scum theories, he's trying to start competing wagons as well

Coming from now-conf.town Dunn btw.
And this was on popopopo-wagon.
(no, I'm not trying to paint notscience as scum here again, just hold your horses for a moment )

I don't mind the geraintm wagon so much, but I don't like hoopla pushing it. And it has dead weight on it.

Now

THIS

is sitting on a fence while we are really closing in on the lynch of the day.

I too want to flip popo, especially since it feels like everyone except for Una who has posted recently, who hasn't been on the wagon, has been strangely opposed to it

+

Particularly Hoopla

And who was Hoopla on?
Well, like Galron just pointed out - geraintm.

Yea, I do not necessarily object to it, but I'm not too excited about it either.
I'm feeling sort of uninterested with the game now. That Hoopla-claim makes it literally antitown to keep my vote on her, since her claimed role should be confirmed.
But I just have this solid feeling it's a scum fakeclaiming, and they are now living on borrowed time.
Dunno. I wasn't particularly scumreading them before, but I joined the wagon anyway.
And anything and everything they said afterwards only sold scum!Hoopla to me more.

So all of this other stuff sort of feels like filler to me right now.

My turn to sit on the fence.
All I can say is that NEITHER wagon felt like a good one at that point. I think I wrote pretty much exactly how I felt there ^^

But my main-point here is this:

The only reason why I'm wondering, is because scum!Hoopla would already know here that they aren't going to be cleared by their claim.
You do understand that, right?

So assuming scum!Hoopla, anything and everything they say from that claim onwards is already WIFOM.

Meaning that it is actually possible for scum!Hoopla to vote geraintm there just to make sure people will not follow. And I feel like it makes all the more sense considering that stinky hammer they then threw at popopo.
The alternative here being Galron - not wanting to commit to either wagon and trying to take maximum distance from Hoopla now.

[UnaBombaH]

And in case people still don't follow my logic -

in the event that Hoopla flips scum, you have to consider their claim a milestone in their posting.

Everything before that is something we can analyze with the idea that they were scum, trying to manipulate the game and survive with their teammates.
Anything AFTER that point, comes from scum who basically knows they are going to be offed D3, because scum!Hoopla simply can't be inno'ed.

[UnaBombaH]

If Isis is town, I can see one of gera/galron totally being a teammate of scum!Hoopla.
Maybe even with scum!Isis, because neither of them was on popopopo-wagon.

geraintm (1): popopopopopopo
Hoopla (1): Galron
Klick (1): geraintm

Just as a curiosity - at the end of the day this is where popopo-gera-galron were.

If Hoopla ever flips town, the bottom of my reads completely falls off, so that is the one flip I'm still waiting for. Obviously.
But I can actually see Isis being scum here regardless of what Hoopla flips.

[UnaBombaH]

A read of day 1 where I can be scum with Hoopla is pretty disappointing. I don't think it's within my scumrange to "bus" in the manner I did, as valuable as a scum!Hoopla is to a scumteam

Yeah, well..
Since we both seem to think Hoopla is scum here, do you think they

have

been an asset to their team this game?
I believe they have under-performed, and therefore wouldn't consider it outside the realm of possibilities.
I do have to admit that there are some other possibilities that have jumped to the front of my mind just now, upon re-checking the end of D1.

Hoopla + one of gera/galron + one of flippy/RfS?

[UnaBombaH]

The reasoning being that I feel like Hooplas assumed "gambit"-claim was simply to give them more time.
One low-activity slot that might get replaced sooner or later?
And while I do not know how good gera/galron can be as scum, I could see Hoopla wanting to "coach" them further rather than die D1.

Thoughts?

[UnaBombaH]

OK, agreed on that then.

I'm going to step back from the thread for the rest of today, and see what others bring to the table.

[UnaBombaH]

Sure is.
I really hoped someone would've stepped up and provided something to read during the last ~20h.
Because as it feels right now, I really need something new to widen my perspective and solidify my reads.

@notscience - do you still subscribe to your nightkill-theory?
If you do - how does it translate to the current gamestate or activity-level of players?

[UnaBombaH]

Do you disagree with Hoopscum,bobtown, geraintown, or nstown?

I'm not 100% sold on town!gera. (check my latest on gera/Galron)
I'm wary of notscience, because I'm sure they'd have the ability to deceive, but I do townread them.

[UnaBombaH]

Una seems in step with me like 90% of the time and the other ten percent says alarming things.

Same as before then - what about my posting alarms you? And to be fair, I've been townreading you most of the time here, but I still want you to go a little deeper than "90% good vs 10% bad".
Apparently there was something you didn't like about me throwing those posts back and forth with Isis earlier? Mind picking an example?

Is noone else getting increasingly strange vibes from the Una/Isis back and forth of 'but how can I be scum when hoops is scum?!?!'

Or if you mean that I'm implying that I'm 100% not scum

because

Hoopla is scum, then you have misunderstood the whole point of my argument.

I think you're a better lynch after we get confirmation that Hoopla is mafia.

Isis was saying that I'd be

more likely

to flip scum if Hoopla does. That was the main point I disagreed with.

[UnaBombaH]

Hoopla + one of gera/galron + one of flippy/RfS?

Updated version: Hoopla + one of gera/galron + one of Not_Mafia/RfS. I'm trying to make sense of my earlier hunch of deepwolf!Isis aiming for lategame.

UNVOTE: - might return to Isis tomorrow if I don't think anyone else is more reasonable after a good nights sleep.
I'm gonna do separate ISOs for both of the G's tomorrow as well.
I guess it's time for me to put in the effort. Can't complain about Not_Mafia/RfS otherwise..

[UnaBombaH]

So, I did my pondering and have some perspective on things now.
The next thing we need to decide is whether we want n_m executed today, or we wait a couple days.

I for one won't hold my breath - this is who he is every time.
I agree that slot wasn't/isn't outright scummy, but it hasn't done much of anything either.
And I'm done with having slots like these around on MyLo/LyLo.
Because selfvotes and hasty lolhammers lose more games for town than scum there.

[UnaBombaH]

I do not want Bella executed, but I'd like to see them flipped, if that makes any sense.
I do not think Isis and Bella are scum together, and I want Isis sorted asap.
If I feel good enough about Isis and notscience at the same time, I feel like the game is solvable.

[UnaBombaH]

risk of us losing the game due to selfvoting behavior (like is that a perspective slip?)

So you are back with the "slips"? No slips.
Lolhammer =/= selfvoting. Not necessarily in the same scenario or situation.
But both display the type of actions that lose town games when it's either already MyLo/LyLo, or getting closer to it.
Always less room for error, as we have less players in the game.

And you said it yourself - the slot is almost likely to be town. Almost.
But currently I'm not trusting them to make the right decision when it matters.

[UnaBombaH]

I have no such confidence in my reads, like I’m far from solving.

Well, like said.
I feel like Isis/notscience are the slots that will give me the most trouble.
If I can sort them and feel comfortable, the actual solve isn't far behind.

[UnaBombaH]

Is tour desire to policy joint NM stronger than your desire to joint your strongest scumread?

Of course not, but we can't lynch Hoopla yet.
I think we've come across that a couple of times.
And currently I'm going back and forth in my head about Isis, but I'm not sure if people are willing to follow me there.

So policy-gank on N_M / RfS comes like third, and that's where I'm currently at.

[UnaBombaH]

I don't think it's correct play to policy him, I would be gungho if the slot didn't exit at >rand town.

Like, this for example bothers me a little.
Why was Flippy >rand town?
I had my own gutread on the slot (played with them a lot I'd say), which doesn't matter much now since Flippy isn't here himself anymore.
And I might've just been wrong, because I don't think town!Flippy just bails on us like that. Dunno.

But I really, really, REALLY think town often ends up "protecting" their lurkers and "trolls" from lynches for way too long.
They think scum want them dead because they are "easy mislynches".
Sure, maybe some unconfident noob!scum who just want to make it to as late as possible, but if someone like Hoopla is really scum here, they are deliberately aiming to get both RfS and N_M to lategame.
Because they trust in them to either be primed suspects by then, or at least have no cohesion or ability to lead/solve the game for town.

It's not like scum is gonna NK them ever? Why would they?

[UnaBombaH]

Really, given what everyone has said about nm, I have a null scum read there only bc of flippy flaking. I've only seen him do that as scum. So nm would be policy for me but disagree on >rand.

So you agree with me, and disagree with Isis based on this? Right?

I didn't preview, but I think I agree with that Isis just wrote.

???

[UnaBombaH]

Honestly?
Naming myself would be cheesy, so I'm gonna say that

Porkens

is my top townread.
I feel like they redeemed and solidified their slot somehow. (can't even remember who they replaced, but it got so much better IMO)
I feel like I can trust them to be town. Not sure I can trust their reads though.

notscience

is likely the second slot I'm least likely to scumread. I know, doesn't sound even close to what I say about Porkens.
But everything negative I say about them or slightly scumread, almost exclusively comes from the deep dark depths of paranoia.
And one of the things that feeds said Paranoia, is the way they interact with you.
notscience+Isis as a thought doesn't feel very realistics I guess, but the thought of it scares me a little.

And finally

bob

. Although, I'm sure you could put bob/notscience either way around depending on my mood and the time of the day.
I do not see Bob flipping scum this game, and it's a combination of tone and positioning on the game.
As their latest - the way they stood up to/with notscience felt towny.
As a matter of fact, their little tussle upon reread seemed even more towny than it did then.

[UnaBombaH]

Una who is your top three towns

Quid pro quo Clarice...

[UnaBombaH]

Previously I thought it was because they were at a similar standing but I guess it's some other quality.

There's that, and an uncanny feeling that your slots are somehow connected.
I'm usually good at picking stuff like that up, and I really thought you might either be scum together or even share a town-PT.
But I guess you just vibe on some similar frequencies.

[UnaBombaH]

I doubt you're feigning ignorance of my reads after matching them so closely.

Probably not the kind of turning point that you're gonna be happy with.

Not sure I understand this part.

And what you're saying is these..

bobtown, geraintown, or nstown?

..are your top townreads?

[UnaBombaH]

Ah yes, the readslist that I couldn't search for because it's not in words!
So Bella is the penguin, and the flippy-slot was the Koffing?

[UnaBombaH]

Who do you actually scum read , una?

Hoopla.
Isis is melting me a little, but I'd still say they are next in line when it comes to actual scumreads.
I'm still trying to find the energy and motivation to do a proper ISO-read on gera and Gal, because I feel like one of them almost has to be scum if Isis is not.
If I find something there, that might ease my anxiety a little more.

It's posts like on this page, where Una has said that she wants to execute two people she thinks are prob town (me and nm) because she can't get hoops that are weird to me.

Take the context into consideration.

I do not want Bella executed

,

but I'd like to see them flipped

,

if that makes any sense.

So like said, I do not want to vote for you, but if you were to be executed anyway, I'd use that info to take another step with my read in Isis.
If you flip scum, then my reads have been wrong anyway, and I do not think scum!Isis would bus you this hard here.

So policy-gank on N_M / RfS comes like third, and that's where I'm currently at.

And this was after Hoopla and Isis. You are NOT on my lynchpool Bella.

Make any more sense now? (also a dude, but that kind of stuff doesn't really bother me that much. )

[UnaBombaH]

Is this scum!RfS actually trying, or has town!RfS at least somewhat arrived?

Might not agree with the read, but I could see these ^^ posts coming from town.

[UnaBombaH]

Miltank is a budget Snorlax.

The speed tier difference and access to Milk Drink + Heal Bell makes for a more team-oriented play though..
Snorlax is just all about that stall and hitting physical while tanking special..

[UnaBombaH]

Miltank and Snorlax are completely different, Miltank is support, Snorlax is a tank

Preach.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh man, I have one of those too, and I've been putting off that project as well!
Got this book and that paper-theater a few years back when my friend came home from his Korea/Japan trip.

Spoiler:

[UnaBombaH]

UnaBombaH, why have you failed to palce a vote?

You won't believe me when I say that I just woke up, read to the end of previous page, and was about to vote Galron just to see if anyone would follow. I'm still not going to join either of bob/Bella.
Then I hit preview and saw that there was one more page that I hadn't even noticed.
So yea, was about to, but you got the jump on me.

I've been putting off my ISO-read on the G's, but since people are already starting a wagon there, I'll be happy to join.

[UnaBombaH]

I still think Bella is the wrong execution today. But if that 5th vote comes, I'll give intent. Consider that a warning to any lol hammers.

This looks very bad in context.

[UnaBombaH]

Why did the Galron wagon appear so easy too? Mmmm

What wagon though? Isn't it just N_M and Hoopla?

[UnaBombaH]

So why have you still not voted?

Because I'm setting up my workspot.
Hold ya horses and moos.
Don't spare your heys.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, no immediate lolhammer-danger yet - I'm fine with this for now.

Other than Hoopla, I dunno. I think maybe RFS. I think maybe you, but both of those reads are weak.

So if I vote you now, I get to be on the scumlist?

VOTE: Galron

[UnaBombaH]

There has been something about the way you post Galron that pings me.
All throughout the game.
It sort of feels like you are almost engaging in whatever is in front of you, but then you just..dont?

Like here, your first response to the idea of people wagoning you was more powerful and immediate.
It felt like you might be making a statement.
And now you've skirted answers with N_M and that feeling is completely gone IMO.

[UnaBombaH]

we really shoulda given galron a proper wagoning ages ago.

I know what we should've given you..

But you see Hoopla, I'm onto your game here.
Last day you went on gera to make others go to popopo.
It's the same here.
You jumped on Galron to make sure one of the three already existing wagons will definitely go through.
Meaning that my read on bob/bella is correct, and they are both town.

[UnaBombaH]

You need to be more specific.

When describing you to you? You know what, I'll do your ISO today anyway.
I'll try and keep and eye out for these examples as well.

[UnaBombaH]

What does engaging what is in front of you but then not mean?

It could mean many things, but more than anything, there are always either half-measures in terms of following up on declared reads, or making calls about actions being scummy/towny, but then acting on them differently anyway.

@galron, your poat about the wagon feels like info, not analysis - who's jump on that wagon feels scummy/badly positioned?

Una's.

Wait a minute - based on what? You preflip associating?
I now have nasty feeling about this wagon with Galron dropping posts like this, and then joining the wagon anyway..

Something like this maybe?
Just a quick search for your name in my own ISO to give you something that has pinged me before as well.
Here you had called me out for joining that wagon, but then decided to join it yourself.
Instead of pushing for me/trying to come up with a wagon yourself etc etc.

I still think Galrons stance on this wagon / my vote on Hoopla makes little sense to me.
They are either thinking Hoopla is going to flip scum -> me joining the wagon means something OR they are thinking Hoopla is going to flip town -> me joining the wagon means something ELSE.
You can't just say my way of joining the wagon was the scummiest (or however it was phrased) without considering the implications Hooplas flip is going to give.
Or I mean, you CAN, but then you'd be arguing that no matter what Hoopla flips, I'm the bad guy here.

I don't think that's a rational way to read things.

This is regarding that same situation.

I don't mind the geraintm wagon so much, but I don't like hoopla pushing it. And it has dead weight on it.

Now

THIS

is sitting on a fence while we are really closing in on the lynch of the day.

And this is something I noticed earlier this gameday, about your positioning at the end of the D1.
D2 I started with by still townleaning you over gera, but there were some pointers here as well.

And these are all just from my own ISO, not even diving into yours.
So these are some of the things that have already pinged me throughout the game.

[UnaBombaH]

And you haven't explained why you would be on my scum list for voting me.

Oh, that was just a silly jab at you.
You named the two people voting you + RfS as your scumreads.
It sort of felt like lazy/OMGUS.

[UnaBombaH]

This is what una just called me out for.

Yea.
And calling out Hoopla for anything right now is a moot point.

[UnaBombaH]

I think this is the day that will help us solve the lategame, when we look back on it. Absolutely an amazing tool from the mod with all these votecounts as well.

[UnaBombaH]

I dislike the fact that Bella is still the main target Porkens/notscience.

[UnaBombaH]

RfS and Bella should both relocate to another wagon within Bella/RfS/Galron, and then we can all have a talk. Agreed?

[UnaBombaH]

RfS and Bella should both relocate to another wagon within Bella/RfS/Galron, and then we can all have a talk. Agreed?

this sounds like a very convoluted negotiation.

Why though?
They either have to pick between voting each other or going for Galron.
I think that's as simple as it gets - we don't need more than three wagons at the same time.
Having five wagons all at 2 votes is silly.
Having 2-3 wagons all at 3-5 votes is the way we either get people to commit to votes, or make switches that they have to explain later.

Splitting into multiple wagons and then rushing into one "because deadline" is the way to play where scum can scatter however they want.

[UnaBombaH]

Mark my words - the wagon on Galron was all town at least until Isis joined.

[UnaBombaH]

it almost makes me believe this is a town/town wagon battle with the way this game has ground to a halt.

At this time, Hoopla was voting for RfS, and the other leading wagon (ahead by one vote) was on Galron.
Just noting this down.

[UnaBombaH]

People sometimes dislike readlists, and coloring them might just make it even worse?
So I made an execute-list instead.
Players I'm willing to make a compromise-vote on, if/when the wagon on Galron isn't going to get all the way through.

*Galron

- want flipped today. Their posting has been off for some time now, and their "defense" today seems weird. And there's this one thing I feel like I noticed, but am holding on to until they are put back to E-1.

*Replacement for Sujimichi

- willing to compromise if they are the only other significant option "against" Bella/bob.

bob3141

- not willing to compromise.

Bellaphant

- not willing to compromise today or tomorrow. Bella is only potentially scum to me, if Hoopla is town, but..

Hoopla

- ..should die tomorrow unless I'm drastically mistaken, in which case not much else makes a lot of sense anymore either.

Porkens

- not willing to compromise at all.

Not_Mafia

- willing to compromise

ONLY IF

none of the

red

ones are going to get lynched today, and we are running to a potential no-lynch.

Isis

- most uncertain about. Would've wanted lynched at the start of the day, but has managed to make me doubt my read on her somewhat. Likely not a realistic lynch for today anyway.

geraintm

- not willing to compromise today. I sort of have gera/Galron as "opposite sides of the same coin" in my head. And since I currently believe Galron is scum, this ought to be town.

notscience

- not willing to compromise

Take these how you will, I wrote them out of memory, without any fact-checking.
So lot of these are based on either the latest pages, or the strongest gutfeelings that came to me when reading this list of names.

[UnaBombaH]

RfS also tunneling bob between easy miscancels. RfS + ???

Good pickup. I feel like RfS+Galron+Hoopla is not impossible either.
It just feels like an "easy" solution, so I guess 2/3 in there max.

[UnaBombaH]

That's the mindset of someone happy to survive rather than the mindset of someone trying to jester scum.

I actually sort of "get" what you're saying here, but in this specific case, I do not think it makes bob scum.
bob might even know and admit that this read is somewhat correct, right bob?
I've been able to do this very specific read correctly on bob before, and just a simple confirmation from them is all I need.

[UnaBombaH]

I think the other option is that he wagons could both be on scum.

Hm.

Both wagons, as in?
If you are talking RfS+Galron, we can agree on this.

[UnaBombaH]

But the talk of the town is why Mr. BombaH gave you and me asterisks.

Because you are #1 and #2 in my list right now. You being #1, and RfS being the first compromise. As I tried to put it in words instead of numbers or an order in a list.
The colors are only there to make it more obvious where I'm at.
But if that's the first/only/last thing you managed to pick up from that, good on you.
Just the kind of posting that fits my current read on you.

A sinking feeling about someone else.

And this was the thing I didn't want to bring up myself until you were at E-1, but since you pointed at it again..
You are talking about me here, right? And even if you aren't - why not make it more obvious to everyone right away?
Because that would be the townier course of action, and considering you WERE one vote away from being lynched, you should always out everything you have in your mind at the time.
OR did you KNOW someone was going to unvote anyway? Or at least not hammer you away quickly?

[UnaBombaH]

You know, I really think there was 4 town on Galron at the time of this post.

RfS and Bella should both relocate to another wagon within Bella/RfS/Galron, and then we can all have a talk. Agreed?

Hmm... I have a sinking feeling.

Then we get an immediate votecount afterwards, and you know what are the two things that follow?

this is a strange stalemate. the two leading wagons have townreads on one another, and are voting elsewhere. this is rare. usually out of self preservation one or both wagonees will vote the other option.

it almost makes me believe this is a town/town wagon battle

with the way this game has ground to a halt.

My #1 scumread comes in and starts to spew nonsense about the wagons. And to top it all off?

VOTE: Galron

..making it E-1 for a very brief moment, until Porkens got cold feet and unvoted.

And no. I'm not saying Porkens is the scum here, but I believe Isis voting Galron might've very well been a scum jumping on a bus.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm off to bed now, but I'll just say that I really want Galron to be the one we flip today.
The more I think about it, the better I feel.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm fairly certain notscience didn't get a result.

[UnaBombaH]

I mean, at least not a useful one.
Remember, Neapolitan would only get a "not Vanilla Town"-result from all the PRs AND the scum.
So notscience wouldn't have been able to differentiate a guilty from a "PR-guilty".

[UnaBombaH]

And just to be clear - I somehow read notscience as a protective-PR.
I think they mentioned the word Doctor in a way that felt almost like tongue-in-cheek.
One of the reasons why I didn't want to talk about my paranoia on notscience ever.

[UnaBombaH]

Wait a minute.

notscience targeted Hoopla N1.
Wanna bet?

[UnaBombaH]

No wait, that makes no sense.
Nevermind.

They'd get the same result even if their claim was true or not true.
Silly me.

[UnaBombaH]

I drew town, and intend to share my ice cream with whoever else did as well.

Reference to Vanilla/Neapolitan Ice Cream.

And you get an ice cream cone for joining

This was an answer to Hoopla.

There will be your choice of vanilla, and not vanilla.

This is so obvious in retrospect.
Good crumbing.

There’s an

ice cream shop next to my restaurant and I haven’t been able to go get some bc The hours I’m working

and it makes me sad

I think they have cookies and cream too.

I’m honestly debating reciting hoops

This could've been another crumb? Dunno.

Hoops did you ever tell me what kind of ice cream you like

As well as this. But it makes no sense, because Hoopla had already claimed at #844.

i am an even-night friendly neighbour.

So either notscience misunderstood their role/forgot how it works/whatever, or they didn't crumb it. Because they did crumb their target for N2.

I’m curious what kind of ice cream gera likes.

This would've been last night.

[UnaBombaH]

stop trying to posthumously usurp our venerated Master Clown

I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean, but OK. I'm just trying to make sense of how come we have three dead PRs(???) and no results.

[UnaBombaH]

I didn't get any ice cream

Actually, unless I'm completely mistaken, you did theoretically get the ice cream, as in visit from notscience.
It's just that they were killed right after/during that visit.

[UnaBombaH]

@Isis - would you ever consider lynching Hoopla even if bob claims to have gotten a Friendly Neighbour-visit?

[UnaBombaH]

Yea was just wondering..
Because I'm still thinking bob is town, so I'd take that confirmation pretty seriously.
I guess if a similar confirmation would be coming from Bella, you'd be a lot more hesitant, right?
You'd be looking for a Bella-wagon anyway I guess.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm just spitballing here. Dunno.
I really felt like one of gera/galron had to be scum, and it REALLY felt like Galron was acting like one.
I believe in wagonomics to a degree, so I guess D1 needs to be looked at again later.
First we settle this Hoopla-thing obviously.

But after that.
Porkens still feels like such an obvious townie.
And if Isis is not scum, and my read on bob/Bella won't waver, well...
3 scum in gera/RfS/Hoopla/N_M? Not sure about that either.

[UnaBombaH]

Isis, how deepscum are you here?
Scale of 1-10?

[UnaBombaH]

I was actually checking out what the response could be if you really are tipsy.
Although I have to admit, I was expecting a cheeky response, instead of a "full-stop"-kind.