Mini Normal 2152 | JDM | Endgame

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car go vroom

Vroooom!

*hits a wolf*

VOTE: Raya36

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That's not even a thing

Is this related to beeboy's suggestion to vote votato? If so: Why is it not a thing to you?

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I am bit conflicted on dsjstr. I didn't liked the apologetic nature of his 30 after maxwell's and mine posts, but then again 31 looks like he is trying to get into the game. Not sure if this is indicative for any alignment though. Just don't know why he felt commenting on votato's "scumclaim" now, if it was worrying him.

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its an 8-player, so 3 seems excessive, even if town has a lot of power. seems like a dumbtell. which might suggest beeboy is scum? or just not paying any attention?

Why would the first suggestion be that he would be scum? I was thinking at first that this might be a townslip, but I am super careful with these because I think they are easy to fake (and it's ard to believe as it is hard to miss that this only a 8-player game) and I am not familiar with beeboy, so he might be crafty enough. Unless I am dumb and don't know what a dumbtell is.

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thats enough from you. id like everyone else to do the same though pls. need some friggin content here.

While it seems things are about to get started, I wanted to reply to this. Frankly I am not having any meaningful reads yet as it's too much stuff that can go both ways. I have the feeling most reads are based on experience with other players, maxwell aside (well and now others of course too). Which might be why I have a very slight townlean on him, but it's probably more gut.

While I think your scumclaim is rather null I was wondering what the odds are for scum to play along and join in in these shenanigans, hence my vote on Raya as I think they might take the chance to play along and come off as easygoing, although this is more a gut feeling. What did you make out of your little interaction with her? For the record I am not really believing into this too much as Raya's recent posts were not strengthening the bad gut feeling.

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While I see some people are scumreading beeboy for not participating in rvs, why is it scum indicative here? Why is it worse than dsjstr who also wasn't participating in rvs. Just because he came back and wasn't voting again?

@dsjstr:
I reached work now so I will respond to your recent posts later in the evening.

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What does your comment have to do with my "apology"? Which was me just reflecting on my own gameplay. Max's comment is complete bullshit, elsa has not even spoken and BM has only questioned why no one voted for him. It was not a response to

Max he has already been questioned about the legitimacy of his claim by someone else. I will ask what you think of his reasoning which when he had switched votes was while you had also left a refrence to the vroom comment and BM had not spoken

The point is I don't see the need to justify yourself after getting confronted or questioned which comes of as unnecessarily defensive. As if anyone writes anything substantial on page 1, so I would have just shrugged it of. I don't think max's reason is necessarily great (not even sure he himself originally really had a reason besides provoking a reaction), but it's an approach I can agree with with testing you. And you seemed pretty upset by it, more concerned about yourself than figuring others out, even in this post above you are fingerpointing like why you and not Elsa, BM or me.

As you were asking for my max read, there isn't really much to read as he posted pretty minimalistic so far. Which is why I have a slight townlean there, because I feel he would make more out of the push on you to look more townie as you as town are making it atm pretty easy for maxscum. Need to see more of him though, as of course he could just coast for a while with that vote on you as well.

Town were never informed how many scum there are mafia would know. If they accidentally said how many scum there are it would be a scum slip not a town slip.

I've been thinking that there could be a neighborhood with 3 people which would be way too town sided if there were no mafia in it, and they were saying that votato would not be mafia out of the three.

I think it's vice versa as micros usually tend to have 2 scum otherwise the normal queue can bite me. So coming up with 3 in a micro can be seen as an unconsciously townslip as scum knows the exact number. But as others pointed out beeboy seems too smart for something like that, so... :shrug:

Why are you looking for a neighborhood?

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its an 8-player, so 3 seems excessive, even if town has a lot of power. seems like a dumbtell. which might suggest beeboy is scum? or just not paying any attention?

Actually to add to why I think this is possible they didn't even need to say how many scum to get their point across. The "3 scum" was added in without necessity.

If I go by the context of some comments you and votato seem to be familiar with beeboy and he is mechanically too smart for such a dumbtell, then why would he drop as scum such a thing in a game with people who apparently see right through it?

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Raya looks town.

I kind of just want to vote dsjstr for the neighborhood thing, however while he comes off as objectively scummy I believe there is genuine conviction in his posts that could come from town mindset. If that makes sense. Like I think he would have been held back by his partner at this point.

I kind of share beeboy's impression of BM. Just by my own experience I see these kind of openings rather from town than scum. Need to see here more though as this won't be enough obviously.

Can someone break their votato read to me? He has some of the most posts here but I am absolutely not getting any major vibes here.

I was waiting last night for more from her, not really convinced by her entrance into the game.
VOTE: Elsa Jay

Any gut pings so far?

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But continue and realize after I die, not only do you not get associations, but you only get one mislynch here. Make it count.

What would be the better lynch?

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Huh? My vote is literally one post above yours?

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Of course, that's what all mages say when their spells don't work.

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@testarossa:

Why does Raya36 look town to you?

It's mostly that I feel she displays a genuine interest to figure other people out and shows an interest in details like in 65 that I rather see coming from town than scum. I also think there isn't really any merit for her as scum in handing out a townlean on me as I don't feel I haven't done much town indicative that would warrant a necessity given the state of this game, yet it doesn't feel like an informed townlean.

On something different, what is your take on the situation around the major pushes so far? I mean that all seem to end in apathetic reactions (well, except dsjstr, but this one also doesn't seem to go anywhere else).

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Can you explain why because I don't find it as scummy as you do and her recent posts come across as genuine to me.

Genuineness can come from both sides though. Why do you think it comes here rather from town? I assume your change of opinion is based on 125 going by your 124?

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I don't know who qualifies as a "major push" but I don't like the votes on Elsa and think the their attitude is much more likely unmotivated town. dsjstr I was almost going to back down on because of his attitude but his explanations for everything in his recent posts is just totally nonsensical.

Ugh yeah, not the best phrasing, but I meant pretty much all "wagons" we had so far with dsjstr, beeboy and Elsa, which you mostly got covered.

I feel you about dsjstr. Looked through some of his games today to get any feeling for his general attitude when under pressure and thought that the difference between this game and his town games is kind of noticeable, because he seemed more invested in sorting other players in those games than he did here yet. He wasn't under pressure in those though, found only one game where he was also pushed early for fillerish posts and reacted defensive (albeit a bit more diplomatic), where he was town.
However I also think that the way he tried to figure out what beeboy meant with "3 scum" to clear the misunderstanding up is something that comes more likely from town, because I see no good reason for scum in clearing up the misunderstanding, especially because beeboy was catching a bit flak for it.

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Every single read is non committal to some degree, the only town degree is on Raya so he is leaving himself open to push every other player.
The questions at the bottom of the post aren't followed up on.
The question at the bottom aren't related to the blurb about the player a large portion of the time.

It's the definition of a high effort easy to make scum post. Idk I think it's impossible to read that post and think its a town post with some kind of purpose. Town would be aware they scum read everyone but one player and make some note on it, town would follow up on questions, town questions would line up with their thoughts. None of that is happening.

Do you think his reasons for keeping so many reads open are plausible or do they seem inconsistent to you? I am not sure I get what you mean with non committal here, as he made it clear that most are kind ofscummy.

I have to giv eit to you though with your two points about him not really following up on his questions and that his bottom questions feel a bit arbitrarily. I just went back and checked how each player was related to those he asked about and it's in most cases not really clear. Him asking you about your dsjstr read sticks out as that read was already known and he wasn't asking for the reasons of you townreading dsjstr like he did with me about Raya, which indeed might make it look like he isn't caring that much about it with the lack of attention.
However I actually feel his question to dsjstr about me lines up with dsjstr being his prime suspect and combined with my "waffle-y" attitude around dsjstr, I can see tha thought process here from a scumhunting point of view.

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I'm just gonna put it out there that I'm not for eliminating elsa today. Not just for her not participating yet. Let her talk about AI stuff so we can determine if her excuses are likely true and she's town or if she's scum we can get a better read on her than just "not participating, must be scum". That said: I want participation Elsa!

Well, I mean she

is

participating. She is just by post count in the upper half of the playerlist yet I see no scumhunting, townhunting or any sorting at all or attempts to engage with other people. I think she comes across as weirdly distant in a certain way. I mean if I try to think why she acts as town as she is doing what is she trying to accomplish? If I got the timer correctly in my mind then we are already past the first half of D1.

On another note, do you still feel good with your beeboy vote? After the misunderstanding got cleared up it felt (tonally/by wording) that you were kind of relieved about it's resolution, hence I was wondering if the part about not participating in rvs was still overweighing.

Also what are you thnking about dsjstr? I noticed that you were commenting on any other player that got "wagoned", but you weren't really taking a stance there besides in 66.

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I think Nash's 194 is the first thing that I actually like from that slot. It's a pretty good find, just only skimmed it now though, because late. Will read the context in detail tomorrow though, but interested in Raya's response.

I am also inclined to think BM is townmage, possibly independent of Elsa's alignment given his strong conviction to get her lynched that he has displayed now for a longer time.

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Hm, feel kind of iffy about both votes. Raya's vote is more puzzling to me, like you still seem to think she is town.

Are you not scumreading anyone?

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I guess there is just only so much I can do in the given climate? I have 2 scum reads Elsa and Maxwell.
I have 3 strong town reads, Votato, you and Battle Mage.

With those 5 reads alone only Nash and Testerossas are left.
I only have so much I can be doing right now...

Weren't you also townreading dsjstr? Just forgot about him or changed your read there in some way?

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Both max and beeboy seem to suspect each other to a major extent based on a former game(s). Can't really weigh in on this. Which game are you talking about?

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I guess there is just only so much I can do in the given climate? I have 2 scum reads Elsa and Maxwell.
I have 3 strong town reads, Votato, you and Battle Mage.

With those 5 reads alone only Nash and Testerossas are left.
I only have so much I can be doing right now...

Weren't you also townreading dsjstr? Just forgot about him or changed your read there in some way?

Wait, I also think you mixed something up here. Votato and Nash are the same slot.

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This game is so weird.

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Considering how this is dragging out I can't help but think that Elsa is either scum getting bussed or is town and the other scum is for some reason afraid of being the hammer while the other is already on the wagon.
In both cases I see the scum on the wagon in [Raya, beeboy], I probably like Raya less there going by the progression of her Elsa read. Sincerely doubt both scum are piling up on this wagon, since Elsa doesn't strike me as high priority target, if she is town.

Could also be both off, but I feel then one would already have hammered by this point. Game is dead af after all, there is probably rarely a better chance to not come of scummy with just hammering.

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I'm confused by that last line?

Are you saying that if I hammer then I will be seen as not scummy?

I don't know why you would care. I mean weren't you scumleaning on Elsa anyway?

Elsa and game state were making it pretty easy to justify a hammer.

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Considering how this is dragging out I can't help but think that Elsa is either scum getting bussed or is town and the other scum is for some reason afraid of being the hammer while the other is already on the wagon.
In both cases I see the scum on the wagon in [Raya, beeboy], I probably like Raya less there going by the progression of her Elsa read. Sincerely doubt both scum are piling up on this wagon, since Elsa doesn't strike me as high priority target, if she is town.

Could also be both off, but I feel then one would already have hammered by this point. Game is dead af after all, there is probably rarely a better chance to not come of scummy with just hammering.

This is going off the assumption that there's 2 scum I assume? Do you think scum would bus in a setup with only 2 mafia?

If 3 scum each day would be mylo even if we hit scum. There wouldn't be the daytalk mechanic in the rules if only one scum. Therefore two.

And yes, if Elsa would be scum a well executed bus might pay off in such a small game.

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I actually buy the VT claim. Pretty sure scum would have tried a fakeclaim to bait a town pr in such a small setup. But whatever.

Kind of frustrating, but still think there was scum on this wagon.

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Yes, I know what you mean, felt kind of similar.

Care to explain what triggered you to try Nash?

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I have to claim before dsjstr and beeboy?

Thinking things through I guess Nash is legit? I see no reason to no kill for scum? If they would have, then it would have been 5:2, assuming they weren't informed about a Vig. So they would have gone for an unnecessary extra day, when they could have gotten into mylo/melo (what is it now?) and could have won the game with the N2 kill.

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Was considering lying about my role, but I think it's not necessary. I think we can poe from here on well enough.

I am a compulsive 2-shot Vig.

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Don't care who claims next. Whoever is around next.

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I guess everything is said.

VOTE: dsjstr

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Somehow such a short game is so weird lol. Thought it would now gear up with the N1 flip and then it was pretty much... resolved. Tough game for scum. Thought my role was quite swingy, I was terrified at the beginning that it could wreck the whole game for town.

Also you did well, osuka. Thanks for modding!

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Tried to breadcumb in morse in 189

In morse? Now I feel like a simpleton with my classic typo crumb.