Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[Datisi]

hi all. this is my first game on the forum.

VOTE: nopoweroverme

[Datisi]

well i'm glad to see you all are having a good time...

hi all. this is my first game on the forum.

VOTE: nopoweroverme

reads it's his first game

sees has awards like best marathong speedrunner

why are you trying to trick us

oh gee what gave me away
is it the ~15 games we've played together so far

@npom, i think you're kinda defensive which is good enough for a page 3 sheep

ico, are you tmi-ing george town hmmm?

[Datisi]

ico, are you tmi-ing george town hmmm?

he townslipped

post being made "from a town perspective" is not the same as townslipping but ok

[Datisi]

Except that the statements not true. I was merely making casusal conversation, not an accusation. He's the one that got defensive, not me.

i'm gonna assume this is @me

and like... george's comment there "haha wagoning the wagoner" seemed obviously jokey which you latched onto

so i dunno, i disagree

[Datisi]

I was just trying to get a read on him, not latch on to him.

ok. why do his responses make you think he's more likely scum?

[Datisi]

That he didn't want to respond to my questions. He could have humored me?

he didn't want to respond to... 8 and 9?

[Datisi]

why is george not responding tho those (imo very response-unworthy) questions more likely to come from scum?

[Datisi]

i think george did engage with you, in a way that's more likely to show AI things too - questioning the actual motive behind your questions. and i do agree with ico he's +town for it. also, were you genuinely expecting anything AT to come out of "how is one vote a wagon?"

[Datisi]

are you a believer of anti-town = scum?

[Datisi]

i think you’re town this game so far btw

[Datisi]

VOTE: jankofan

[Datisi]

hi all. this is my first game on the forum.

VOTE: nopoweroverme

Datisi, why you lying?

who, me? lying? i would never.

you disagree those bailey posts are +town?

[Datisi]

baltar, could you elaborate on why you find nopoweroverme's early game as too bold to be from scum, while not icon's? i wouldn't classify icon's play so far as cautious/timid, you would?

[Datisi]

daitsi

who?

anyway, does knowing npom is an experienced player change your read there?

also i wanted to wait and see if npom was gonna correct baltar about being (in)experienced, but then testarossa brought up the alt, big sad.

[Datisi]

re: baltar, i have not played with his alt, i just remembered seeing him say somewhere he's got that account, and the join date being a few years back. i don't actually know anything about his play, i just assumed earlier join date = more experience.

[Datisi]

also i wanted to wait and see if npom was gonna correct baltar about being (in)experienced, but then testarossa brought up the alt, big sad.

Urgh, sorry, my bad, thought that was common knowledge with him altslipping in all of his games.

i mean, i've never played with npom and i knew about it, so maybe you've got a point

[Datisi]

one two seven three

VOTE: andresvmb

[Datisi]

it's a part of a dumb song that's currently stuck in my head

[Datisi]

how fucking dare you

[Datisi]

what the fuck

like what the actual fuck

[Datisi]

okay, that's funny.

[Datisi]

no, i just didn't think you would post a literal private chat screenshot to prove it

[Datisi]

lol dw about it

[Datisi]

datisi you had a nice vote on NPOM, why'd you change it?

(1) i realized the icon/npom discussion wasn't going anywhere and that my vote there isn't helping me sort him and (2) i saw that jankofan was online but wasn't posting anything so i wanted to give a warm welcome

[Datisi]

one two seven three
VOTE: andresvmb

is this vote serious?

yep, i'm not a fan of 126. like, "i agree with everything baltar's said about icon", doesn't vote icon. (i see there's a vote there now) "i am townleaning baltar, but he's probably good so i might be wrong", it just feels non-committial? and devoid of any Original Thought?

[Datisi]

hi andres, what made you vote ico *now*?

[Datisi]

do you have feels on any other player (other than baltar i guess)?

[Datisi]

hate to break it to you, but while ico's certainty about george is somewhat suspicious, i don't really think he's scum for it. have you missed me saying i think ico's town in 93? do you think my vote on you makes me more likely to be scum?

by the way, please link posts using the post tags

Code: Select all

[post]126[/post]

becomes: 126

[Datisi]

i'm not a master at reading ico. i was just pointing out that your reasoning for thinking i'm town (me making a point about ico's certainty) might not be true (i don't think he's scum right now) - so i'm wondering how that knowledge affects your read on me.

snippets like

"I am way past the point that I SR players that vote me, so I was fine just letting that be, and still overall think you're alright."

and

"But I am new to this place, so before putting a vote on me, your average player would have maybe asked me a few questions or tried to figure out where I was coming from."

make me think you're vaguely not a fan of my vote. i'm hoping to get more concrete opinions out of you, if that makes sense.

[Datisi]

datisti

i'm not a master at reading ico. i was just pointing out that your reasoning for thinking i'm town (me making a point about ico's certainty) might not be true (i don't think he's scum right now) - so i'm wondering how that knowledge affects your read on me.

what do u think about ico going hard in on a townread from the very beginning
in particular like 'townslip' is very charged rhetoric

i think it is Okay
i disagree on it being a townslip but i don't think giving Hard Townreads that early is scum!indicative so

@ico are you townreading me yet

[Datisi]

@nopoweroverme, talk to me about baltar and andres? where's your head at on those 2 slots.

[Datisi]

do you still think bailey townslipped or were you confusing townslip/towntell?

[Datisi]

it's like... the more nopoweroverme posts, the more i disagree with him, but also the more i think his posts come from a genuine place of wanting to solve the game?

[Datisi]

Datsi

can you talk about this read a bit more?

[Datisi]

Ah no wait, 210 seems to actually explain the reasoning behind the SR on me - my “huge fencesit opening”. I thought the meta here involved being somewhat detailed about your views. Can someone explain this one to me? Because from where I sit, this looks like a completely made up reason justifying an action taken after a vote on them.

there can be "meta" about being detailed about your views. but it's generally assumed that, when you're being detailed about your views, you're actually having views and taking stances. if you're using a lot of words to say Not Much, that's a different story.

andres, is there a difference in your mind between ico's 210 (the part about you) and my 162? if so, can you talk about it?

189 is funny. Iconeum and I have never played before. They have no idea how I play Town or Scum, how I phrase my arguments as either alignment, or what my skills/weaknesses are. Yet they seem to believe that they can point to one post of mine agreeing with another player and come to the definitive conclusion that I’m Scum. Notice that it also comes as a hedge regarding their vote on VPB, followed by a switch onto me in 193. Yet after all of that, they feel like they need to speak directly to me, asking me to re-read VPB’s ISO. Why? If I’m surely Scum, then what is there to convince me about?

Now, again, I’m not trying to say I know for a fact that Iconeum is Scum. That would be absurd. And it’s just not a skill I have. However, the reaction is obviously way over the top, and I don’t see the Town motivation. Not everyone that believes you are Scum can be Scum. But instead of probing or trying to figure out where we are coming from, the primary response was aggressiveness followed by two votes.

208 - I am wholly unmoved by this, and it’s just a blatant appeal to emotion. I mean this is an obviously Scummy post.

can you talk about these parts? if you think it's absurd to think someone is definitely scum this soon, and that you would "probe or try to figure out where someone's coming from", why are you shading iconeum for speaking directly to you and asking you something?

why is 208 "obviously scummy"?

[Datisi]

andres, is there a difference in your mind between ico's 210 (the part about you) and my 162? if so, can you talk about it?

i actually didn't notice ico attacking you as "definite scum", could you point that out? and like, you're saying as if "lashing out at votes = scum" and "not lashing out = town", which is not always the case

[Datisi]

hm. nobody is expecting you to have pinpoint reads, but it's because of that unsaid expectation that pointing out you do not have pinpoint reads seems scummy...

[Datisi]

Also, your skepticism about me being non-committal is fair.

[snip]

If I was saying that VPB was definitive Town or Scum, then you should be more worried about my alignment.

if skepticism about you being non-committal is fair, is skepticism about you being fence-sitty also fair?

also very disagree with the second point, but dunno how AI that is

[Datisi]

But do you not agree that the agitation and obvious anger from Iconeum (Caps seem like an effective way of communicating anger) are not a bit over the top over two votes?

over the top? perhaps. scum!indicative? no.

[Datisi]

So I’m going to place VP Baltar as a Town Lean, though I’ll admit that he certainly sounds like he’s been around, so could be fooling me

this is what i see as fence-sitty. "could be town but uhh he could be fooling me." are we using the terms differently?

[Datisi]

Please point out to me how I’m playing like I’m sitting on the sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out.

also i never said that, so please don't put words in my mouth

[Datisi]

Datisi, can you explain the Andres case to me in a bullet point or two?

Thoughts on Billy?

- found his opening weirdly non-committal / busywork-y
- his read on me makes me lowkey uneasy since i feel like my thoughs are somewhat similar to ico's so far
- attributing ico's personality to alignment

i was planning on rereading his iso soon as a refresher though, since after the recent conversation i'm not sure if/how much i'm confbiasing on the non-committal/fencesit point

billy is like vaguely +town because i feel like we're mindmelding on the thoughts on ico and the snowblaze's post

[Datisi]

Please point out to me how I’m playing like I’m sitting on the sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out.

also i never said that, so please don't put words in my mouth

That is quite clearly not what I was doing (putting words in your mouth). I’m being dismissive of the argument that I have been fencesitting or sitting on the sidelines (made by Iconeum) because it’s a bad one. And since you seem to be siding there, I was asking you to point out how my play can be interpreted this way.

i don't think anyone said "sitting on sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out", which felt like you were trying to exaggerate the actual accusations

[Datisi]

Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?

voting someone purely because they voted you?

[Datisi]

Perhaps people who have played with Icon before can weigh in and say if this is typical behavior.

*waves*

ico can get very annoyed at scumreads he considers unfair, it's not scum!indicative

your thoughts on andres?

[Datisi]

i mean, it is very different because very shortly after receiving said pressure, ico claimed Port Authority, which made him confirmed town, so... (also how do you miss that when the entire game was revolving around it?)

i can probably dig around our games later on, i'll get back to you.

[Datisi]

i mean... light hearted jabs... because he's about to claim a role that is going to make him confirmed town. it's probably the worst game you could've picked.

[Datisi]

koba, please please don't act like you're god's gift to this game. you can be wrong on who scum is. that's why you need to interact with those people.

why am i town and why is ico scum?

[Datisi]

koba, your playing is accomplish nothing but making people agitated and not have fun. i am asking you to please tone your ego down.

[Datisi]

you said i'm town. my enjoyment of this game just tanked. ~explain that~

[Datisi]

if this turns into another one of [those games], i swear...

ico, chill. please don't fuel it.

[Datisi]

i can, but gimme a bit to get my ass outta bed and have some caffeine

i wasn't planning on posting yet, but...

[Datisi]

Since he gets completely ignored, I am not feeling really positive about Alduskkel. Like he ignored most stuff that was going on to drop his vote on NPOM, which might be by placement a critical point (have to reread that part again though, I might have forgotten about the timeline). The remaining comments seemed rather non-committal. Would be interested in Datisi's take on this.

eh, pretty null so far? i lowkey forgot he's in the game, and we're early enough where that isn't yet a cause for concern. is there a reason you're specifically looking for my take?

I also feel like Datisi has made a lot of valid points regarding Ico.

i am interested in which points you find to be Valid Points

Unfortunately there is also paranoia because Datisi knows how to handle me if she's scum.

i love when people are paranoid about me

ico, would you say your behaviour this game is similar to EISAL v2? i'm kinda getting vibes from that game, except i'm not scum this time lmfao

i'll look at The ReadsList now

[Datisi]

...since when do you dislike comparing your own play over games?

i was asking more because of the discussionw with andres earlier about your meta and if you were acting similar to this in some other game

[Datisi]

ok anyway, i shall respond to your reads with a triangle:



janko is not depicted due to not having posted anything.

vaguely in the order of would-execute > would-not-execute:

- ico: probably my strongest townread at this time. i can see where he's coming from with a lot of things, the frustration feels genuine actually, i don't see an agenda behind his posts yet, etc, etc.

- georgebailey: few posts, and while i definitely don't think he's not capable of making those as scum, they're kinda like, good?

- billy: i was vaguely +town on him before your reads, but if he does usually scumread you as town, the i think i feel better on him right now? like i feel like scum!billy could've easily bs'ed a scumread on town!ico here.

- hellbooks: the early townread of me makes me sliiiightly vary this could be pocketing, but i just kinda agree with her takes here?

- nopoweroverme: it's weird. i disagree with basically everything he's said so far. but idk. feels pure.

- testarossa: can be slightly over the null line because of ~effort~ and i don't dislike some of her takes, but i feel like i really need to interact with her more, because my first instinct when seeing wallposts is "ah yes. town."

- baltar: idk. it's gonna be big irony me saying this, but i feel like i could be getting fooled by him. need more time.

- aldus: yeah i got nothing.

- dkkoba: jam has indeed dropped this game. koba's entrance (annoyance aside) doesn't actually give me any towny vibes. will update this.

- andres: i feel like i've made some good points on why this dude could be scum, and he's definitely not off the hook, but eh, i feel like there's too many Unknowns right now to double down on this.

- snowblaze: so... what is town about this slot, actually? like, i agree that 105 was Not Bad, but it's just one post, and the more i look at her iso, the more i think, is this just scum though?

[Datisi]

VOTE: snowblaze

pedit: thank you ico <3 what do you think of this one

[Datisi]

I see some are scumreading baltar and i can see where they are coming from. Inoc still bothers me but it could be SPP.

VOTE: VP Baltar

i am also interested in this (also what is SPP)?

[Datisi]

VOTE: snowblaze

pedit: thank you ico <3 what do you think of this one

Yippee.

So why do you think I might be scum?

it's like, i don't see any actual desire to gamesolve? like you're asking questions, i don't see that they're going anywhere, i kinda ~don't feel~ you believe in your reads if that makes sense? and also this whole "yay wagon, yippee i'm being scumread" just feels extremely fake?

[Datisi]

dude just say the names of who you're agreeing with wtr baltar

[Datisi]

oh boy looking at that readslist, this is gonna be fun.

can you provide a bit more detailed explanations for those? (also you did read the whole game right?)

[Datisi]

i wonder if snowblaze and jankofan are scum together

[Datisi]

janko, do you think getting annoyed at people pushing you is scum!indicative?

[Datisi]

janko, do you think getting annoyed at people pushing you is scum!indicative?

talk to me friend

[Datisi]

I feel like scum would focus more on the pressure/push arguments (like what i think icon is doing) whereas town would also be visibly focusing on the persons pushing them and who is scum in general.

i'm not sure i get this? like to me it feels ico is solving and it also focused on the persons pushing them? like can you elaborate on this?

also, you're townreading me, yeah? (i'm assuming by 436) how come, i feel like our reads are complete polar oppsoites right now?

[Datisi]

there's 2 players in the game right now who are putting down reads without the want or need to explain them and I don't like it

who were you referring to here?

[Datisi]

i genuinely don't know how you can vibe with any of those posts other than 105 but ok

[Datisi]

koba. personality =/= alignemnt. please actually try to be helpful.

[Datisi]

VOTE: dkkoba

play the game or eat rope, i'm not interested in your bullshit

[Datisi]

koba, your scumread on iconeum is fucking bullshit. "omgus" is not a scumtrait. "being annoyed at scumreads" is not a scumtrait. being annoyed at you acting high and mighty while most likely being dead wrong is not a scumtrait.

you need to talk to your scumreads. you can be wrong. you at some point will definitely be wrong. stop pretending like you won't.

i don't know if janko's scum. gun to head, he's bellow the null line.

[Datisi]

i said he's BELOW the null line? you okay there?

koba, if you think ico's scum, actually make a case. the "wah wah omgused got upset" is not scum indicative. if you genuinely think anyone defending iconeum is automatically his scumbuddy, then i don't even know what to say.

[Datisi]

hey if you flip me will you others get ico tomorrow?

no

[Datisi]

hey wait, am i misremembering or is self-voting a tactic that scum!koba does?

[Datisi]

hey wait, am i misremembering or is self-voting a tactic that scum!koba does?

i'm not misremembering
self-voting is an AtE tactic scum!koba does out of fake frustration
l m f a o

[Datisi]

gotta applaud the guts of using it with me in the game, being as townread as i am, while saying you're townreading me

[Datisi]

i always question people who fos me for bad reasons and the fact you want to latch onto that is telling and different from the shade others have given.

VOTE: dkkoba

You're next after me

they did the same shit in nomination mafia

and because [reasons] i'm like 99% this is scum!koba here

ico, they

[Datisi]

:/

[Datisi]

if we were to judge by your townplay...

[Datisi]

self-voting can be a genuine towny frustration expression soemtimes

however for koba specifically i highly highly doubt it is

also scum doesn't always go down the path of least resistance, clearing someone for that is a very dangerous game

[Datisi]

sarcastic?

[Datisi]

ok. when you decide to actually play the game and explain your reads so far, i'm around.

[Datisi]

sarcastic?

Specifically 323, 328. Also, drunk posting is more often than not Town posting

i thought tht was disagreement, but correct me if i'm wrong

drunk posting is very NAI

koba, andres isn't even on the ico wagon, the fuck are you on about.

[Datisi]

koba, here's the thing. ico is town. without me, you're not getting him through. either start convincing me why ico's scum, or it's not happening.

[Datisi]

you mean get shot by a vig?

[Datisi]

koba, you can keep ignoring me, but it's not gonna end well for you. why is ico scum.

[Datisi]

you're gonna need to elaborate more than that.

[Datisi]

you're gonna need to elaborate more than that.

The other person on the wagon has ellaborated mods than that, why is that not valid for you?

beause i think his reasoning is bad and i want to hear what your reasoning is?

[Datisi]

being annoyed at getting pushed and doubling down on tone is not scum!indicative

like, if your thought process is "annoyed at scumreads" > "must be scum!PR" then fucking lol

I feel like scum would focus more on the pressure/push arguments (like what i think icon is doing) whereas town would also be visibly focusing on the persons pushing them and who is scum in general.

i'm not sure i get this? like to me it feels ico is solving and it also focused on the persons pushing them? like can you elaborate on this?

also, you're townreading me, yeah? (i'm assuming by 436) how come, i feel like our reads are complete polar oppsoites right now?

also this part of his post i quested here feels like an asspull but he hasn't gotten back to me yet so

[Datisi]

apologies. it was not a jab on your intelligence, things i say in mafia are not supposed to be taken outside of that context, and i'm sorry if i gave off that impression.

[Datisi]

ok anyway, i shall respond to your reads with a triangle:

Ah, the original triangle poster!

These reads are really good but I'd swap Testa with Billy.

hmm, you agree with most of them? can you talk a bit more about your testa read?

eh, pretty null so far? i lowkey forgot he's in the game, and we're early enough where that isn't yet a cause for concern. is there a reason you're specifically looking for my take?

There wasn't much about him and I hoped I would get more from you, since you seem more familiar with him and you seem to have strong opinions on people you are familiar with, might it just be by gut. His comments just felt so minimalistic, admittedly I had a votecount with more Ico votes in mind, so the vote itself isn't really that interesting as I assumed.

i wonder if snowblaze and jankofan are scum together

Why these two though?

fair enough. i am familiar with him, but i don't really have an opinion yet one way or the other.

no special reason, just at the time thought snowblaze was receiving (deserved) pressure, and janko jumped in with a townread on snowblaze and a scumread on ico, and that was my first thought, but it wasn't an overly serious post (like i don't claim partnersolves because of one thing like that)

is it just me or is ico bleeding town?

the sunshine might be town...

@koba, i still need elaboration, because iconeum losing his shit over scumreads is not scum!indicative nor scum!PR!indicative and you are not getting the ico lynch today without me

[Datisi]

ok billy

what does that tell you about testarossa

[Datisi]

billy, that "slip" is deadass the easiest thing to fake as scum, please don't

[Datisi]

do you wanna talk about the testarossa read?

[Datisi]

quick look at their one completed game tells me she makes wallposty posts as town. do you think there's genuine scum motivation behind her posts or is it just the posting style?

[Datisi]

okay. if it's something more than "their posts are a lot of words that say nothing", can you help me and point it out?

[Datisi]

this format is so good & i like ur reads however it feels like u are like wildly confident on a george bailey townread for..... making a few posts that were good ?

i am glad you like the format !! : )

i am not Wildly Confident on georgebailey being town, it's just his posts so far strike me as Towny? like if you wanna talk about his scum mindspace i'm all ears

[Datisi]

i do think, if koba/ico are t/t, there is at least one woulf on ico

[Datisi]

@Datisi who is the wolf on Ico? Let's wagon!

i do not know (◕︿◕✿) andres is giving me that big Pocketing Koba Vibes, and just, pointing out in 322 and 327 how he's probably barking up the wrong tree, how his townreads are townreading ico, how i'm making a lot of valid points (and also pointing out there's no longer voting ico in 507 for some reason?) and is just like that now back. however i'm not done talking to janko and he's kinda Not Here right now so it's a bit hard judge where his head's at.

[Datisi]

VOTE: andres

i need more georgebailey.

[Datisi]

@Datisi who is the wolf on Ico? Let's wagon!

i do not know (◕︿◕✿) andres is giving me that big Pocketing Koba Vibes, and just, pointing out in 322 and 327 how he's probably barking up the wrong tree, how his townreads are townreading ico, how i'm making a lot of valid points (and also pointing out there's no longer voting ico in 507 for some reason?) and is just like that now back. however i'm not done talking to janko and he's kinda Not Here right now so it's a bit hard judge where his head's at.

So when I put out a read that has some caution because it’s not strong, I’m fencesitting. But when I put out a stronger TR, I’m pocketing?

You have been very strongly defending Ico, and that made me doubt myself. But I have also said multiple times that I really do think Ico is Scum. You aren’t really trying to get my motivation or look at things from my perspective. You just think you’re right and I’m wrong, and therefore I’m Scum. Well you’re wrong. And why are you surprised that I’m back voting a slot that I have been consistently arguing against?

well, no. when you put out a read super early in the game that supports one side of the argument but leaves room to push the other, you're fencesitting. when you put out a stronger read on a player that lets you hop back on the wagon that is gaining traction again, you're pocketing

i don't scumread people for "being wrong", the easiest thing to be as scum is to be right. but if you truly believe i'm scumreading you for being wrong... that's not very town, is it? where am i in your reads?

ok, let's try this way. what are "lot of valid points" you think i've brought up in defense of ico in 327?

[Datisi]

VOTE: andres

i need more georgebailey.

do you think scum are committed to my lynch or not?

just like with VP, i'm not sure why scum would start backing down from the push on my at this point.

if you think i have the full grasp of what the scumteam's plans are at this point... gonna have to disappoint.

i do think if you're town, there's at least one trying to push this through. i feel like a lot of arguments seen against you that boil down to "ico is play anti-town with the way he's sorting, therefore it's scum" which reminds me of the arguments i make sometimes as scum... but unless they're purposefully big brain trying to fuck with VCA, they're probably not all committed.

[Datisi]

gun to head, at least one of them is gonna be somewhat vocal in opposing wagoning you. but i don't think that's helpful, really.

[Datisi]

for how much we disagreed early game, this is giving me the heebie-jeebies

can you elaborate on your Opinion of Andresss

[Datisi]

ico, do you scumread anyone other than koba rn? (and do you even scumread them)

[Datisi]

zzz

VOTE: janko

game difficult

is there anything making snowblaze town to you other than That One Post

[Datisi]

posts generally going nowhere, lowkey scummy reaction to getting wagoned

i wanna say her hellbooks vote is giving me a bad vibe of "hey look! i am interested in solving! why is nobody talking to me! talk to me about hellbooks!" but /shrug it might be me projecting how i play scum more than actual scum motivation.

[Datisi]

i'd say so. his annoyance didn't seem to have a way to earn him favours, while snowblaze's "carefree" reactions to me seem like scum trying to appear nonchalant about it.

[Datisi]

baltar, do you think i should be townreading you by now? or like, do you think you've done things worthy of a townread?

[Datisi]

VOTE: snowblaze

[Datisi]

notes from the past page and a half:
- ico town yes
- i am enjyoing baltar's posts a lot and am trying not to have that affect my read on him

[Datisi]

Yeet
Yeet
Yeet

you cannot beat this comedy gold.

[Datisi]

i genuinely can't tell if you're joking rn

[Datisi]

if you're talking about snowblaze being wagoned, i believe you there was a game where that happened

i was talking about my "read" on baltar, like in case i wasn't clear, i am not reading humour as town-indicative

[Datisi]

not really, i don't think the "bad logic" of the whole ico-opportunistically-voting-npom thing is actually bad or scummy. i'm listening if you think i'm wrong or if there's something else making him wagon worthy.

[Datisi]

Appeal to emotion. OMGUSing. Being okay with town on town wagons. Scummy play in general.

i mean... what i said about ico i'll say here, omgusing and AtE are not inherently scum!indicative things... (and off the top of my head, not sure where he's done them) if you wanna point them out and tell me why you think there's scum motivation behind them, i'm listening.

not sure what town-on-town wagon means, last i checked, baltar was scumreading snowblaze.

I have tried to advise you on good scum play because this town is already forming an impenetrable phalanx, and yet you refuse me!

mind telling me who you're finding to be the town bloccing here?

[Datisi]

re: npom

i don't think that's exactly omgus, unless you're claiming he's making that up just to be able to vote you, which... eh.

i may very well be an idiot but i think the dragon is town. like, he sees we're not getting anywhere with just screaming about whether ico's omgused in a scummy way or whatever the shit. town is pulling in every direction, which means someone is going wrong somewhere. and at some point, someone is gonna have to go against their preferred reads to get information. i think ico resigning his reads and trying to get *somewhere* by voting his townread is actually kinda town? like i think scum!ico is aware that move is just gonna get him on thinner ice, and has no problem to just keep screaming the same shit he did up until now, which was getting us nowhere.

[Datisi]

koba, i'm still interested in hearing what about testarossa's content is scummy, if you wanna actually talk about that

[Datisi]

The poor logic is that snow not hunting and being useless = scum.

i mean, it doesn't equal that, but it increases the odds. is anyone ever 100% scum barring a cop guilty?

[Datisi]

i have so many questions i know i won't get answers to.

[Datisi]

panic claims ....

what does that tell us

[Datisi]

koba, what does "panic claims ...." mean wrt snow's alignment

[Datisi]

Nothing. Just is a bit annoying when ppl claim like that

shit i actually agree

[Datisi]

coaching actually happens much less than you'd expect in my experience

these last few posts from andres almost make me wanna vote npom, but not quite yet

i am still interested in why testa is scum but at this point i feel like i'm talking to a wall

[Datisi]

fun fact: someone calling me dats makes it about 10% more likely i'll get pocketed by them

VOTE: testarossa

[Datisi]

i have read pretty much nothing from the last few pages but i saw janko jump on the wagon without addressing anything so UNVOTE:

i'll read in depth later

[Datisi]

i need a shit ton more answers from janko so no way i'm currently voting for this wagon

[Datisi]

you do know that not everyone who doesn't follow you blindly is scum, right?

[Datisi]

> sees a scumread who has been lurking the whole time, without addressing literally anything asked his way, jump out of the shadows to put a very fast wagon to L-1 then disappear again
> ur resoning is nOt tOwN )))))))))

pedit: lmfao yeah it has nothing to do with what testa said, i saw my scumread vote there and i'm sure as fuck pumping the breaks on that

"bussing exists" yeah sure and if janko/testa are scum together that is the literally shittiest bus in all of existence and i would sooner bet on them being s/t

i asked him something, it's somewhere in my iso, also like no comment to literally anything that's going on

[Datisi]

It's absurd how difficult it is to get pressure on Billy or Aldus, but Snow skyrockets to E-1 in an instant.

can you elaborate on this? like i get it for billy somewhat (since baltar was also voting there for a bit and he is A Presence), but literally the only time anyone said something about aldus was you commenting how you're not feeling really positive and asking me what i think. that's not exactly pushing?

[Datisi]

ya i wanted a response from you, which is why i asked you specifically? because the part i quoted in 456 just seemed like very made-up-bullshit to justify your ico vote so i was hoping you were actually gonna elaborate on it

though if you wanna talk about why being frustrated over getting scumread is a scumtrait i'm down to listen too

there is a lot of reason to talk because if you're just lurking and jumping on wagons with bad/non-existent reasoning then it gets really hard to sort you, also testa wagon is not the only thing that's happened in the past ~15 pages so i would appreciate some more thoughts on things from you

[Datisi]

okay but like i have seen town!ico get frustrated over being scumread for what he perceived as wrong reasons so many goddamn times so your argument there isn't doing anything for me, and the kinda unwillingness to acknowledge that is giving me mighty bad vibes

ok i'm looking forward to your reads and whatnot

[Datisi]

andres and vp are town

go on

[Datisi]

vp was reacting to stuff similar to how i would in their catch up post, and I'm seeing sincere motivation and perception behind andres' posting

npom could be scum. "missing" snows claim and asking her what it was instead of just scrolling back and finding it is giving me scum pings. seems to be "active lurking".

anyway i'm sheeping koba's list and would vote to hang in {testa, ico, npom}

if you agree with baltar, what is your opinion on snowblaze then? why is there literally no comment about the snowblaze wagon?

missing someone's claim and asking about it instead of scrolling back makes them scum... yeah that is a joke.

deadass thinking all of testa/ico/npom are town now.

VOTE: jankofan

[Datisi]

@snowblaze, read hellbooks's iso. i think her sorting is genuine and i don't see an agenda behind her posting. if you scumread her and wanna talk to me about it i'm listening

@baltar, i know you think snowblaze is scum and all that, but can i like, get your opinion on janko

[Datisi]

mm, yeah you're town as well datisi

no it doesn't make them scum, it just pinged me. why is that hard to understand?

if you think i didn't comment on the snow wagon for a reason, voting me and not snow doesn't really make sense

usually i like hearing how people are townreading me but i feel like you're attempting to shove me in your pocket

it's hard to understand because "they missed a claim" is not scum-indicative like ever, and it sounds like something you came up with so you can later on justify hopping on npom's wagon

does "scum!janko not commenting on town!snowblaze's wagon becaus ehe earlier expressed a townread on her and didn't want to have to keep at it" make more sense?

@snow, you said she was shading people she was townreading, yeah? what posts gave you that impression? and are you usually prone to tunnelling?

[Datisi]

because there are people expressing willingness to maybe vote for npom and having some sorta consistency for later on is usually +town? especially since i'm calling you out for no progressions?

ok but like... i don't think anyone ever has townread someone for missing a claim... like... @literally anyone else, is it just me or does this feel Very Wrong

also ok, then you'll have no problems elaborating on what you thought about the snowblaze wagon, the people on it, and why you're townreading me yeah?

pedit: this post is @janko
snow, i'll read that a bit later

[Datisi]

npom dedicates three posts to talking about how he missed the claim asking snow what it was. my intuitions about time management say that a cursory look at the last page would've been a lot quicker than writing three posts but i could see scum trying to emulate that sense of being idle and casual about the situation.

andres do you buy this?

[Datisi]

andres, i'm talking about janko's ping on why npom might be scum

like you're saying janko is town because your reads are aligning, but do you think his reasoning for those reads is actually good?

[Datisi]

npom could be scum. "missing" snows claim and asking her what it was instead of just scrolling back and finding it is giving me scum pings. seems to be "active lurking".

@datisi Ok I guess? still feels like a reach but w/e i cant really say im familiar enough with the game that i know whos sring npom, but its moot anyway because the read isn't faked at all. npom dedicates three posts to talking about how he missed the claim asking snow what it was. my intuitions about time management say that a cursory look at the last page would've been a lot quicker than writing three posts but i could see scum trying to emulate that sense of being idle and casual about the situation.

@andres this is what he wrote about why he scumreads npom

and to me it just seems like the most made up reasoning ever? do you think this is genuine?

[Datisi]

but that's like... his only reasoning so far why npom is scum... would you genuinely not be suspicious if you saw someone say that a townread of yours is pinging them scummy because of something like that?

[Datisi]

Yeah if we disagreed fundamentally on our view of the game and they put out a flimsy case on someone I was TR sure. But we very largely agree so I’m not too worried about it right now.

man i wish i was scum right now because pocketing you would be the easiest thing ever

the easiest thing for scum to do is to agree with someone, especially if they're wrong

like even you said that ico's reaction being more perosnality than alignment was a good point

[Datisi]

@Datisi They’re not trying to pocket me with their views. None of their views were thrown out as a response to anything I said. So why is that relevant?

i'm trying to say that if you just look at "does this person agree with me or not" rather than "why do they agree" or "do they seem to have good intentions" you're gonna be a very easy target for pocketing.

pedit: i didn't say you'd blindly follow it to the end of the game
but i have a feeling this town is being led astray and i'm trying to get to the bottom of it

[Datisi]

Can someone who is not Koba tell me if scum always have day chat? The fact that it needs to be in the rules makes me think not...

Another way to put it, has anyone played a recent game that didn't have scum day chat?

vast majority of games in this meta have scum daychat. while it generally still has to be outlined in the rules, odds are the game has daychat.

[Datisi]

i realized what's bugging me about andres, he has a kinda weirdly similar posting talking style to one player i played with a few months ago that was scum... or like really really reminds me of him. this itself is not scum-indicative however. but it's making me uneasy. i will have to reread his iso soon...

dkkoba vs npom fight is very likely a big waste of time.

i want alduskkel and georgebailey to do more things.

[Datisi]

i realized what's bugging me about andres, he has a kinda weirdly similar posting talking style to one player i played with a few months ago that was scum... or like really really reminds me of him. this itself is not scum-indicative however. but it's making me uneasy. i will have to reread his iso soon...

This seems completely NAI, regardless. ISOing him seems fine, but being suspicious based on someone else talking similar...

...someone is coocoo for Coco puffs today

[Datisi]

dkkoba vs npom fight is very likely a big waste of time.

[Datisi]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i'm doing gamesolving, but it doesn't align with your reads so i'm sitting on sidelines i guess

i think i've been very vocal in screaming about my ico townread, i'm townreading hellbooks, i'm trusting baltar enough to work with him, i think billy is towny, i think this koba/npom spat is a tvt distraction, i need aldus and george to post more to sort them, i've said mutiple times not how janko's reads make no sense to me and i think he's posturing so he can vote for npom once the wagon starts there (and looks like it's starting) but sure i am just on the sidelines doing nothing

[Datisi]

i realized what's bugging me about andres, he has a kinda weirdly similar posting talking style to one player i played with a few months ago that was scum... or like really really reminds me of him. this itself is not scum-indicative however. but it's making me uneasy. i will have to reread his iso soon...

dkkoba vs npom fight is very likely a big waste of time.

i want alduskkel and georgebailey to do more things.

This has got to be the worst reason that has ever been expressed for a Scum Read of my slot.

Also, I disagree completely that this NPOM/DkKoba fight has been a waste of time. Unless this is TvT (and I’m obviously not seeing it), you know almost for certain that they are not the same alignment. The taunting and the attacks don’t strike me as theater. I have already been thinking NPOM is independently Scummy - this just confirms my suspicions. The push on DkKoba there is hard to understand, and it’s filled with misrepresentations.

don't get me wrong, it wasn't just that, i still think my early points on why i was scumreading you were valid. it was just a funny feeling in the back of my mind that i've figured out now.

meh, alright. i still think npom is hangbait, but /shrug, maybe i'm wrong. i'll give it a reread at some point. probably.

[Datisi]

I think testa/NPOM/janko has 2 scum in it

how are you getting to this exactly associates wise
i don't think scum!janko is partnered with either of those tbh

[Datisi]

ah ok
i thought it was something wrt associates because "this has exactly 2 scum in it" sounds like a sentence one says after doing some galaxy brain associates

[Datisi]

@mod: v/la 24 hours

i need to stop thinking about this game for a bit so i can return with a clear head and hopefully have Reads and Conclusions

okay i'll be back a bit later talk amongst yourselves

[Datisi]

if everyone wasn't on V/LA pretending they don't have crippling internet additions, we'd already be in twilight. Sad.

i fucking feel personally called out how dare you

also i'm just skimming along but around page 54 bob is being very townie i don't think i want to kill him : (

[Datisi]

excuse me wtf

ico by the time i get to page 57 you better have a vote on janko you hear

[Datisi]

bob pushing me if scum is an attempt to pocket datisi. thinks my townread on snow was a white knight attempt which only works if you're scum reading me independently since its ascribing scum motivation to otherwise normal actions.

snow's exit/Bob's entrance were also scummy

this is E-1 (deja vu)

VOTE: bob

lmao i just got to this post and fucking lol

janko, accusing bob of pocketing me, that's hilarious

scum generally don't pocket like "datisi is town. here datisi have my vote."
scum pocket like "hmm... i would say i think you're town, your pushing on me here seems genuine and i think you want to be right"

has this sudden shift of reading snow/bob been explained? imma bet not

[Datisi]

snow's exit is NAI for [reasons]

ok i stopped at ico's gif case, gotta run for now, be back in a bit

[Datisi]

where tf has either snow or bob been defeatist tho? last i remember from snowblaze, she was adamant in arguing with me about hellbooks (which i just realized i never replied to, oops)

[Datisi]

I mean I feel like you don't understand that I'm reading people based on shallow intuitions at this stage with no flips and you're expecting perfectly logical reasons for having voted people and using that as the basis to push me is scummy aswell.

is this gonna be the post you point at to explain why you were on the miskill wagon today?

like i am trying to tell you your read is incredibly fucking shallow and surface level, and you're stuck in your ways, not even wanting to reconsider, while tossing me aside as "ye seems genuine but very wrong : (" since that lets you both (1) not push on me because you know you're not winning that and (2) dismiss my reads

[Datisi]

scum generally don't pocket like "datisi is town. here datisi have my vote."
scum pocket like "hmm... i would say i think you're town, your pushing on me here seems genuine and i think you want to be right"

[Datisi]

which read is shallow and surface level? what do you want me to reconsider about?

ye seems genuine but very wrong : (

and lol yeah pretty much. why are you over complicating the game? you're obv town to literally everyone in the game

your ico read holy hell!! like i have a bajilion games played with him and i'm trying to tell you that being annoyed at getting scumread for wrong reasons is not scum!indicative for him! but no, at the same time "that's obv scum mindset" and "my reads are shallow" fucking lol

"bob is classic scum robot and reading back at snow gives me the same vibe" where??

what tf am i complicating? and what does being obv town have anything to do with anything?

[Datisi]

janko is still refusing to take into account literally anything i say about ico

like literally what the fuck

[Datisi]

ok, if you don't want to talk with ico because hE's ScUm, talk to me. what posts made you townread snow at first and how did those posts then turn them into a scumread after her rep out?

[Datisi]

And I don’t know why wherever Ico runs to, Datisi follows.

ah yes, the janko vote... that ico started... and i just followed... with no thoughts or reasoning on my own...

[Datisi]

Datisi, do you know snow IRL?

no, i just saw [stuff] but can't talk about it

Ico & Datisi - do you town read the Bob slot or you just think janko is scum for changing reads on it?

i literally said i think bob is being townie

Right, because I said you have no reasoning of your own Datisi.

I think Janko has a lot less content, so is an easier push. And is nowhere near as aggressive at defending themselves (that seems obvious in light of the last 4 pages), so people might be more inclined to switch over there and not feel bad about it. Well, I don’t see Janko flipping Scum so I’m not voting there. Good luck getting that one through.

what does it matter who is an easier push or not??? like if i wanted an easy push with no content i'd go george or aldus like tf is this post even saying?

[Datisi]

it's not about janko having little content it's about his content being scummy as all shit

[Datisi]

like

- townreading snow, nowhere to be fucking seen to defend her when she reached L-1
- once her wagon deflated, oops he's here to put testa to L-1 sure
- "i wasn't posting because i had nothing to say" oh really?
- bob reps in, ah yes scum robot. ah yes reading in retrospect snow was obviously scummy. no i will not be elaborating on this.

[Datisi]

- "my reads are shallow, it's day one, what do you expect"
- "i think datisi is town but i will not be reconsidering my read on ico just because he's been screaming for 5 irl days now how ico is obvtown because i don't townread people for similar reads, and i don't think datisi's reads are worth sheeping"
- "oh yes mindmelding with dkkoba, we have similar reads and gamestate view, obv town"

[Datisi]

DKK is the most likely town at this point what point is there to going against their elimination choice?

dk is most likely town??? and what am i???? dude you get janko scumflip basically conftowns you right

[Datisi]

i think i'm eating shit tonight and if that happens for the love of god don't let janko get away with this shitty play on day two

also voting against ico is gamethrowing, thanks

[Datisi]

scum!janko = town ico, testa, npom, and we'd townbin bob with that too but o o p s

[Datisi]

also ending the day without george or aldus commenting anything on this conundrum is plenty anti town so pls don't k cool

[Datisi]

bob isn't scum tho

also what softclaim?

[Datisi]

koba thinking anyone would kill them n1 kekw

[Datisi]

if my view of the game is correct then i think the chances of koba eating a nightkill are very close to zero regardless of their role

if bob does flip scum then i'd like koba to be protected

[Datisi]

not if i die and y'all forget about it

i generally prefer getting scum when i see them, not LaTeR just because someone on the competing wagon softed a PR

[Datisi]

janko on day two: guys look at 1516 npom is obviously scum killed datisi to set me up : (

[Datisi]

/shrug

[Datisi]

... aaah, i just saw my name at the end of the first paragraph and decided that the second paragraph also applied to me

ye my bad, don't play mafia within 30 seconds of waking up.

[Datisi]

i have like, Thoughts about mafia theory about why your second paragraph is very very wrong but dunno if it's worth arguing it right now

[Datisi]

shitty informal vc:
bob3141 (6): VP Baltar, hellbooks, DkKoba, Andresvmb, jankofan, NoPowerOverMe
jankofan (6): Datisi, bob3141, Testarossa, Iconeum, Billy Pilgrim, GeorgeBailey
Testarossa (1): Alduskkel

@george do you have like any other thoughts
also should probably let aldus and hellbooks catch up properly, would love to have some more content from those slots on d2

[Datisi]

i'm not saying we need that

i'm just saying that some people have 100s of posts and some have very little and at some point we have to sort the lowposters and that is much easier if we give them time to post as opposed of rushing this right now because we're impatient

[Datisi]

npom, what do you learn if bob flips town?

[Datisi]

i'm still trying to wrap my head around how bob is a better execution for you, even tho you were leaning him town, because *in the event* that he flips red, we can probably trust this person that softed a PR

but something tells me i'm not gonna get it

[Datisi]

the wagons are literally equal right now but ok

[Datisi]

i mean, i'd argue that *not* jumping on someone's wagon and townreading them is also associatives but ok, i don't think this is going anywhere

[Datisi]

Ok, how does critiquing NPOm for calling you top town, which to me reads like a weird pocket attempt mean that im calling you scum?

koba i am Interested in hearing a reply to this

[Datisi]

i literally quoted it

[Datisi]

i think billy asked npom why he thinks you're town? like? asking someone else why they think [a thing] doesn't imply you disagree with [a thing]

[Datisi]

> joins game with 13 players
> "i don't wanna play 10v3 i wanna play a 9player game"

koba idk what to tell you, you brought it on yourself

[Datisi]

no, probably not a good idea to do that without intent on him tbh

tho idk how much i'd believe him anyway

[Datisi]

intent to potentially randomly hammer on a whim at any time

i don't really count this but if you're serious about intent i'm more than happy to hear that

[Datisi]

you'll maybe be the deciding vote for today also janko is totally scum or something idk you should read it

[Datisi]

he hasn't been around ever since i asked him to explain his snow progression : (

[Datisi]

hang ico after me

lol no

[Datisi]

i actually have an idea of how to read ico, which you keeo sidestepping and not interacting with while in the same breath claiming your reads are ShAlLoW

pedit: lotta posts hi hellboks

[Datisi]

considering i was planning to open with a vote on george...

i'll reread his ISO in a bit.

[Datisi]

i'm actually fairly confident both EoD wagons are town. janko's wagon took a fair bit of pushing to go through. if bob were scum, i think his buddies would've joined me in pushing janko much sooner.

that's why i thought georgebailey was scum. his late vote on janko (and janko flipping town) made me think that scum was pushing both wagons ~equally, and his vote seemed like the least committed one. but, uhhh... guess i was wrong.

[Datisi]

i mean, aldus expressed a scumread of janko earlier, i'd expect aldus to hammer there regardless of his own alignment.

[Datisi]

i think GB is a really curious kill tbh

DiD yOu KiLl HiM??

[Datisi]

i'm not ded because nobody tried to kill me obv

i think my town equity fell quite a bit after that shitpush i did on janko? or that's how i'm explaining it to myself anyway.

[Datisi]

oooh, maybe we have a vig? like last night i thought "wow if i were a vig, i would fuckin murder georgebailey". that would be pretty cool. esxcept not really because georgebailey's dead.

[Datisi]

no, there was obviously a save on me, i'm radiating obvtownness