Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[Datisi]

10 were wrong. 3 knew exactly what they were doing.

[Datisi]

in a vacuum, not necessarily true. right now, almost definitely not true.

[Datisi]

actually hold on, weren't you suspicious of baltar yesterday, npom? wasn't he the main wagon driver on snow/bob?

[Datisi]

can you elaborate on how town!janko = town!baltar? other than level-zero-thinking of "hurr durr both wagons at EoD can't be town", not sure i see it.

[Datisi]

assume the moderator suddenly reveals that bob is an IC. where does your head go?

[Datisi]

the second paragraph is an afterthought that might be wrong. george's position on janko wagon made me think he was a likely scum candidate. obviously that's now proven wrong.

my point is, if bob were scum, what were his scumbuddies doing? looking at me screaming at janko the entirety of day one, only for that wagon to barely go through? i don't think that's likely. if they were committed to bussing bob, bob would've died. if they were actually trying to save him, i would've gotten more support earlier. i think the game didn't care too much which one of the two wagons got through. hence TvT.

[Datisi]

oh, you weren't interested in following me yesterday either, don't say that like it's something new.

[Datisi]

i was obviously completely wrong on janko, i'm not saying i wasn't.

[Datisi]

datisi u gonna listen to me now?

probably not.

[Datisi]

wait, you posted without checking who died? and you thought you were a likely nightkill?

[Datisi]

i literally said i was dead wrong on janko. i don't know what else you want from me.

pedit: ah, dead thread PM. carry on lmao.

[Datisi]

andres, if you have any suspicion on me other than "drew a wagon that flipped green", i'm all ears.

[Datisi]

ugh, drove* a wagon. you get it.

pedit: it's a fun thinking exercise

[Datisi]

@DkKoba are you really certain that Datisi is Town here?

andres, this lowkey felt like shade. can you elaborate on your read on me?

[Datisi]

i mean, the NK also read janko as scum and pretty much tipped the wagon there. and was very lurky that people were suspecting. like GB probably got killed because of a failed PR snipe attempt, not because anyone was afraid of him convincing the town to vote here or there.

yeah, i felt the need to question your TR of him because i didn't agree with it. i still don't agree with it. yeah i know he flipped town. if i were placed in the same situation again, i'd be hard pushing for his head again.

why should the fact that bob called baltar/you scum be a point for turning against bob? i know it doesn't seem like it from your PoV, but i'm not townreading you. obviously my reads were going wrong somewhere when my strongest scumread flipped green, but that doesn't mean i'm flipping all my other reads upside down immediately.

[Datisi]

/shrug, you brought up the NKA first.

i said i'm not townreading you, that's not the same as scumreading you. i'm *aware* my view of the game wasn't the most correct one. it's time to see where exactly was i going wrong. i do have a hunch, but we'll see how things turn out.

i'm not arguing you were TMI'ing the slot, i'm arguing i was dead sure janko is scum and would repeat that push whenever because he was doing scummy shit. people tell you "ah, you shouldn't worry about your own image as town, just do honest scumhunting and it'll shine through" and it's something i couldn't disagree with more. i know this is a waste of time typing it now, i'm just saying. i believe i had good reasons to think he was scum.

[Datisi]

yo baltar, when you've got time (don't wanna enable people to slack off work...) can we chat wagons? i seem to recall you being suspicious of janko as well, what do you think about it now? what's your read on me, and do you trust the other people currently on the bob wagon?

pedit: i mean, GB was a suspicious slot with not much clout. with all due respect to georgebailey, i kinda doubt he'd get shot for his reads.

[Datisi]

if everyone wasn't on V/LA pretending they don't have crippling internet additions, we'd already be in twilight. Sad.

Bob, you should give your opinions on your PoE pool so we can make associations after you're gone.

dakota, vp bakter, Alduskkel, Andresvmb, powers, jankofan

Hard scum leans on vp baker and and.


rest most likely town.

bob, when you get the time, does this still accurately reflect your feelings on the game?

[Datisi]

or maybe... maybe... both me and ico are town... wow...

[Datisi]

bob is also town.

[Datisi]

all in due time, koba. patience is a virtue.

[Datisi]

so, if bob were to flip town, would you go after VPB? do you think those two can be s/s?

[Datisi]

cool, i agree.

[Datisi]

can you actually say what that "a lot" is?

[Datisi]

i'm awake. (though i really shouldn't be.) what's up?

[Datisi]

sigh.

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is there anything legit other than ico having paranoia about me? because i can assure you, he's gonna have it as long as i'm alive.

[Datisi]

i wouldn't townread bob for that reason. i think snow is enough of a scumplayer to be able to fake that if that makes sense?

pedit: yeah, i get that. but i highly doubt i'm living for very long, so.

[Datisi]

i'm a 1-shot loyal neighborizer. i tried to neighborize you last night, baltar. it failed. i think that's because you're scum. hence bob town.

[Datisi]

quick, any response?

[Datisi]

baltar?

[Datisi]

it's been 5 minutes... how's that wiki search going?

[Datisi]

[Datisi]

my thoughts about the wagons were true. i genuinely thought that bob and janko were competing TvT wagons. i thought checking the main pusher of bob would be a smart idea, especially since i started to think his push on snow wasn't genuine the more i thought about it...

[Datisi]

koba, it's a 1-shot loyal neighborizer with zero claimed PRs. the balance here is probably much different than chat mafia.

pedit: true. also where is baltar.

[Datisi]

i wouldn't townread bob for that reason.

Quick, why are you town reading Bob?

generally when people tell you "quick, ..." that means they're reading what you're gonna respond, right?

[Datisi]

koba, sorry to disappoint, but a 1-shot loyal neighborizer + 9 VTs versus 3 goons is very very scumsided.

pedit: i'd rather not flip him right away. let's please not rush things.
anyway this is why i was feeling extremely cagey at the start of the day. never had a guilty before.

[Datisi]

i still dk abt u baltar but if ur scum ur not gonna be the first scum caught if u know what i mean?

i was looking at this and laughing to myself

[Datisi]

ok baltar. could you claim your role please? i already said why i tried to neighborize you.

[Datisi]

my thoughts about the wagons were true. i genuinely thought that bob and janko were competing TvT wagons. i thought checking the main pusher of bob would be a smart idea, especially since i started to think his push on snow wasn't genuine the more i thought about it...

[Datisi]

LOYAL neighborizer. my neighborizer fails if i target someone of the opposite alignment.

[Datisi]

also i'm 1-shot, but that's not too important right now.

[Datisi]

baltar, occam's says you're scum. redirectior isn't normal. the longer you drag out your role claim, the worse it looks.

[Datisi]

because i was afraid of dying if i holstered it. and the best usage of cops i've seen is on nullish slots (which you were to me) that were influential (with pushing bob, ou were). please roleclaim.

[Datisi]

go on.

[Datisi]

i don't gambit for shits. i've seen how that turned out with janko.

[Datisi]

why would you check georgebailey? when you could've checked bob? and did you crumb anywhere?

[Datisi]

baltar isn't confscum to me, koba. something could've theoretically interrupted my neighborizer.

[Datisi]

PT cop, huh.

[Datisi]

gsadkfguiH<AILGEHGIORHIOSGDHOAhsglkjdflyhblčjfipb FUCK

[Datisi]

i am so fucking sorry i are you fucking kidding me

[Datisi]

i half did. i'm not a loyal neighborizer, i'm a tracker. i tracked baltar to georgebailey last night. decided to gambit to hopefully get scum!baltar to fakeclaim something like ascetic which would confscum him to me.

[Datisi]

and for reasons i completely believe his claim

like what fucking scum goes "oh shit a loyal neighvorizer??? i'mma claim PT cop"

ok i'm gonna go die now bye

[Datisi]

it is 5 am i was waiting up until baltar got off work i am so fucking exhausted please kill me please fucking end my misery

[Datisi]

wait how is bob locktown from that...

aaaaAaAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Datisi]

ia m

DISTRESSED

[Datisi]

i've been sitting on this guilty for... so long... and it just crumbled... through my fingers... it is 5 am i have not slept in some 20 hours... waiting...

[Datisi]

considering he just claimed PT cop that visited bailey last night? i'd say pretty pretty decent.

[Datisi]

two separate investigatives in a game this size is really not that much. sorry koba gonna have to correct you on setup specc

[Datisi]

god i was hoping to get scum lynched get nightkilled no more thinking. guess not.

[Datisi]

i'm gonna like... take a walk or something. pls no quickhangs thanks.

[Datisi]

we're treating baltar as IC today. a PT cop claim is so out of left field for scum, i highly highly doubt he makes it there when there's a claimed loyal neighborizer on him.

[Datisi]

no.
- datisi claimed loyal neighborizer on baltar
- baltar in responce claimed PT cop on GB (which makes literally zero sense as scum)
- datisi came clean and claimed tracker

so baltar is town aye.

[Datisi]

From what I can tell, Datisi claimed tracker on VP Baltar to GB, and then VP Baltar claimed PT Cop to GB.

npom, this isn't the correct turn of events.

[Datisi]

pretty decent. scum doesn't claim goddamn PT cop there.

[Datisi]

fuck if i know. i need to actually reook at things.

hmm, to go to bed or to wait for another hour for ico to come online so he can yell at me.

[Datisi]

we're not flipping baltar today
or ever

can you talk about andres/alduss townpings
and like maybe make a readslist pls

[Datisi]

ok, so i claim loyal fucking neighborizer that failed to neighborize

you're telling me scum claims PT cop there?

[Datisi]

ok, so i claim loyal fucking neighborizer that failed to neighborize

you're telling me scum claims PT cop there?

first of all, i knew you were fake claiming the moment you posted it
second, i don't see why not?

ok, why?
and what thought process is there to claim goddamn PT cop of all things?

[Datisi]

sure, but baltar didn't know that.

but you do understand pressured scum is going to think "town tried to create a PT, need to claim something that explains the guilty on me"?

[Datisi]

commuter, ascetic, roleblocker on me, jailkeeper on me. and even just claiming vt or whatever in order to defend himself by saying he doesn't know anything about it. but he claimed fkin PT cop that targeted bailey. i believe him.

[Datisi]

ico. at the time, i was claiming loyal neighborizer. there isn't any difference between "neighborizer failing because you targetted scum", "because you targetted a commuter", "because you got roleblocked." like, sure, i wasn't roleblocked. but *at the time*, baltar didn't know that i'm a tracker. if he's scum trying to get out of a loyal neighborizer guilty, a jailkeeper claim on me is a plausible way to do that.

(which is incidentally why i fakeclaimed it at first, to see if he was gonna try to trick me like that)

[Datisi]

i'm just asking you to show me a bit of trust on this one, ico.

[Datisi]

i'm just asking you to show me a bit of trust on this one, ico.

i'm not yelling at you or pushing you
and i'm still townreading you

i think i'm giving you plenty of trust here

i meant wrt baltar
like i have an idea what fakeclaiming scum would have done, and this ain't it chief

why shouldn't we lynch bob

i don't actually know. lol i kinda townread him idk. my reads are fucked.

[Datisi]

ico, publically leashing a tracker while 2-3 scum are alive is a horrible idea

[Datisi]

If VP flips scum then Datisi is probably scum.

i sometimes really struggle in figuring out how your thought process works.

[Datisi]

if i die, nobody touches baltar. don't even look at him the wrong way.

[Datisi]

i am so confused as to what you think a datisi/baltar team is possibly trying to accomplish by doing that shitshow and locking us both in a PR claim, but okay

[Datisi]

because... i am town... and i'm very confident on baltar being town... and i don't want y'all to kill him if i'm dead...

[Datisi]

baltar, were you planning to investigate one of those two (npom/aldus) tonight?

[Datisi]

and if bob were to flip town?

[Datisi]

mhm. after we come to an agreement who we're executing today (be it bob or otherwise), i'd like to chat about our night action targets.

[Datisi]

Looks like scum theater to me.

VOTE: hellbrooks

...

[Datisi]

my dude. as scum, i think things through. this is a desperation play that i have no goddamn reason to make at this point in the game.

you know what, maybe i am wrong. VOTE: npom

[Datisi]

no, you called me scum with baltar (for defending him???) then voted for hellbooks.

[Datisi]

because it's not a hard guilty and the way baltar claimed is so transparently town and i don't know how many times i can say that

[Datisi]

have you, i dunno, read it? the was his first reaction was "oh you must have been blocked or redirected" as opposed to saying i'm lying, claiming PT cop of all things, like it's so painfully town...

[Datisi]

npom, you've called so many different people scum i don't even know what your thoughts are. could you eli5 your reads atm? doesn't have to be long.

[Datisi]

ugh, aldus, can you talk about your read on ico? iirc you were scumreading him in that trainwreck of a game chain of command.

[Datisi]

i wanted to make a really dumb meme but my laptop's fan has decided to have a stroke and i'm afraid to use it, send help

[Datisi]

i wanted to make a really dumb meme but my laptop's fan has decided to have a stroke and i'm afraid to use it, send help

so my laptop keeps having a stroke, and i just booted up the old ass computer that's still running windows XP just so i could make this



(actual game related analysis and stuff coming once i catch up on sleep i promise)

[Datisi]

koba, brain turned on enough to describe the testarossa townread?

[Datisi]

I think aldu panicked when i asked him to give me hammer idk. I dont have scum bob off the table but snow gave me town vibes and reexamining their scummy part it was more noob town kinda stuff

why would aldu "panicking" when you asked him for the hammer imply scum!aldu if both wagons were town?

[Datisi]

i assume u thought bob was town bc u thought baltar was scum

well ya but also like
the reason i tracked baltar is because i thought bob could be town and to see if baltar is scum so ya know

I don’t have a strong read of Alduskkel either way, but I’m going to guess that most of the analysis on 2210 is broadly accurate, primarily because Datisi (who is likely Town) would strongly come out after Alduskkel if the conclusion was way off. So even if Aduskkel is operating with TMI, Ico remains likely Town.

i find this post extremely hilarious

2210 was made at around 5:30am my time, 2224 at about 8am

and i love how andres takes the fact i haven't jumped at that post yet (i was asleep at the time!) as me agreeing with it because it kinda implies i don't sleep

and to be fair that is not completely inaccurate...

also seriously about 2210, it's Okay. i dunno. it doesn't immediately make me wanna kill either of them.

[Datisi]

I don’t have a strong read of Alduskkel either way, but I’m going to guess that most of the analysis on 2210 is broadly accurate, primarily because Datisi (who is likely Town) would strongly come out after Alduskkel if the conclusion was way off. So even if Aduskkel is operating with TMI, Ico remains likely Town.

@bob, one of the people in your PoE turned out to pretty likely be town via the fiasco that happened. do you have like, updates on the PoE or whatever

[Datisi]

I never get the full scum team day one. 2 tops

that's fine, who does anyway.

can you talk more about your PoE of aldus/andres/npom then? or like why are they scum?

[Datisi]

The only really major trust issue for me here is that he claimed his result on GB in a wrong way, this is for me a huge red flag and I am legit confused no one cares about it. I mean he can't get no result, because he wasn't blocked, we know that due to Datisi. GB wasn't ascetic or also can't have been rolestopped, otherwise the kill wouldn't have gone through unless there is a Strongman, but that's where it is starting to get ridiculous.

@baltar, could you clarify what result you got on george last night?

[Datisi]

Does anyone know. Would you get a result if your target died?

i have an idea about this "i got no result" thing, but my issue is if i say it now and baltar confirms, it's gonna be "hurr durr you told scum what answer to give"

[Datisi]

that's E-1. can we not have a hammer until bob outs his reads please. if he gets conftowned by flip i wanna have them.

[Datisi]

it's not lylo. and please don't do that.

[Datisi]

i'm just saying that doing that right out of the gate in lylo is very likely game losing.

if bob is green i could see aldus being scum.

[Datisi]

if the mod counts that vote i'm just adding it to the list of trainwrecks that happened this game

[Datisi]

i asked for a bit more time. why are you so impatient?

[Datisi]

bob is a great town player. if there's a chance for him to flip green here, i want to hear what he has to say.

[Datisi]

he's not skating away from an execution this time. the only thing resembling a counterwagon is npom, and shit i'm only voting him out of pure frustration, i think he's town.

also what billy said. if baltar got blocked i'd like to know about it.

[Datisi]

> "we need a scum lynch"
> voting for bob who he townreads

why are you like this

[Datisi]

@Datisi, you see what is happening though right? Bob could easily tie it by voting his counterwagon, leaving the decision in the hands of Testarossa. If you think Bob is the better flip, I would consider Unvoting and waiting for Bob to answer whatever questions you posed.

sigh, i hate both of these wagons.

something in me is still saying bob is town. the only reason why i would consider voting him is "info" - either i'm wrong about it or to confirm that the town is probably going very wrong.

npom is like... probably town, but holy shit look at his posts. i think he either gets pushed later on or ends up being swayed into voting town.

[Datisi]

both these wagons are town and i hate it.

UNVOTE:

part of me wants to try to save bob because i don't think it's scum. the other part understands enough of the town thinks he's scum that he's gonna be a distraction until he's dead. this is stupid.

of course i could also be wrong on bob. this game...

[Datisi]

VOTE: aldus

how long is it gonna be until i chicken out because i don't have the courage to push another wagon through against consensus??? let's find out!!!

[Datisi]

Let's not be OMGUSy or anything.

Dude, wtf. You weren't voting for Dats. You voted for hellbooks. Wtf do you even mean?

I've found by stopping trying to make logical sense of anything he says and only focus on PoE with NPOM, my quality of life has significantly improved.

Yeah, the more I try to figure out how NPOM's play makes any sense as any alignment the more I confuse myself.

But, if you look at NPOM's wagon history + the PoE + maybe NPOM is shading Dats/VPB because he doesn't want either of them confirmed, then I think "NPOM scum, Bob town" makes sense.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

@andres, this post didn't ping me at first, however i was earlier looking at aldus's iso, and i thought that, if bob is town, this kinda seems to be setting up a push on npom tomorrow... it's making me a bit uneasy.

[Datisi]

andres, i forgot and i'm a lazy mfer, who's in your poe? other than bob,obviously

[Datisi]

love you dragon

[Datisi]

ico you're drunk this isn't the scum PT

[Datisi]

everyone should realize that if we do'nt flip bob today, that window will close and he will not be lynched for the remainder of the game

ico i'm not sure what you're trying to say/do with this?

also bob that's great but i'm not sure if it's helping your situation right now

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

i'm chickening out

i don't want baltar to yell at me

if that intent is serious (because you never know with koba xD kek) here's to me being wrong and waking up to a scumflip

[Datisi]

did you just

[Datisi]

sigh.

[Datisi]

wait did i just fucking fall for not one, but two fake hammers

ok it is sleep time

[Datisi]

wait no how many is it to hammer again?

oh no

[Datisi]

yeah ok i'm leaving good night

[Datisi]

what the FUCKING FUCK WHY IS BILLY DEAD!?!?!?!?

sigh.

i was a mason with billy. billy tracked baltar on night one. i claimed his result so that scum would shoot me. or so i thought.

this is why
(1) billy didn't blink when i claimed tracker
(2) i immediately trusted baltar's claim of PT cop (though i'd be lying if i said i'm not feeling nervous about it being a *scum* PT cop now)
(3) i tried to "leash" baltar's investigation yesterday ("can we talk about your night action? who would you invest if bob town? if bob scum?") because i didn't want another false guilty fiasco.

also notice billy and i barely interacted but we always seemed to have each other as townread/townlean.

also my first post is a crumb. i'll explain that one when i get to a computer in a little bit.

[Datisi]

(though i'd be lying if i said i'm not feeling nervous about it being a *scum* PT cop now)

baltar being the mafioso doing the kill and one of his partners being a PT cop who targeted billy night one, baltar claiming his partner's role under pressure but with his actual target on the off chance i'm a tracker fakeclaiming loyal neighborizer, and then scum deciding to shoot a maybe mason maybe neighbor billy over a claimed tracker... ugh i don't think this makes too much sense...

[Datisi]

yes, that is sorta what i logiced out to myself in 2435.

[Datisi]

anyway, my first post this game:

hi all. this is my first game on the forum. [...]

billy's first post in newbie 1945, the first game in which we played together and were both town:

[...] Hi all. This is my first game on the forum. [...]

counterclaims welcome.

[Datisi]

[Datisi]

ok, but i claimed my actual scumrole when we were completely cornered (i am still salty about that night one...) and i felt i needed to make a desperation move that would either kill me instantly or be "no way scumtisi ever makes this play" thing. but what the fuck's the play here?

if baltar is town and i tracked him, why do i not murder him last night?
if baltar is my scumbuddy, ??? like what is the point???? we were both pretty townread???? i lock us both in a PR claim?????? yes????????

[Datisi]

i'm internally debating between "massclaim, then baltar outs his result" or "skip massclaim, baltar outs his result now". however i first wanna give everyone a chance to check in, react to the trainwreck that is this game, and for formality's sake make sure there's no counterclaims.

also i gotta consult the wiki's normal page. a rolecop? i dunno. pt cop is still potentially more deadly to scum than a tracker. first thought is that scum wasn't in baltar's sight, that's why they decided to leave him alive another night, to get rid of the tracker and allow a mason to maybe get guiltied...

[Datisi]

baltar, were you planning to investigate one of those two (npom/aldus) tonight?

I tend to think about my night actions after the flip. I think if Bob flips scum, they will be on the shortlist for sure.

Andres I'd need to really reconsider actually. Realizing my TR on him is notably built on a bob-scum scenario

if i'm right on the above, this is the pool of names that probably contains scum, but that's more assumptions than i'm comfortable with...

[Datisi]

actually not andres, i'm dumb. but he said npom/aldus, and (1) i don't thnik they're aligned, (2) that's still only two names... scratch the above.

[Datisi]

open question to the table: did anyone go from scumreading billy day one to *not* doing that day two? or like suspiciously avoiding him? if he got rolecopped, and they knew he was a mason, i doubt scum was gonna try to push on him... but that still assumes a rolecop which we can't know for certain...

[Datisi]

testa, do you have any conclusions written from that metadive?

[Datisi]

Datisi (1): DkKoba
Not Voting (8): VP Baltar, hellbooks, Andresvmb, NoPowerOverMe, Datisi, Testarossa, Iconeum, Alduskkel

my god look at this VC.

[Datisi]

am i insane in thinking that andres's entrance to day 3 today was kiiiiiiind of tmi wrt his analysis of me/billy?

[Datisi]

weren't you townreading andres yesterday? what's up now?

[Datisi]

sigh.

i think last night's track would've potentially cracked this game open, and i'm so fucking annoyed.

[Datisi]

that's not what i meant when i said you were possibly TMI'ing. but i don't think we're proceeding much until everyone checks in and Acknowledges the Situation, and until we hear baltar's results.

[Datisi]

i have a bad feeling about something...

[Datisi]

i don't know the words in which to describe how much of a trainwreck this game is.

[Datisi]

hellbooks is the third mason, yes.

[Datisi]

this is why i was thinking about a massclaim first

i knew there was no way there's more power roles besides us and hellbooks

so if anyone claimed it they'd be scum but like

hahahahahahaha fuck this game

[Datisi]

besides us and baltar* i'm gonna go cry for a bit catcha later.

[Datisi]

baltar why in the fuck would i gambit you about THIS

i have like... an identical crumb with hellbooks that i do with billy

also i don't think anyone is insane enough to counterclaim this so

[Datisi]

Testarossa
DkKoba JamSV
Datisi
Alduskkel
Iconeum
VP Baltar
Andresvmb
NoPowerOverMe
hellbooks

hellbooks, baltar, datisi town
poe of {testa, koba, aldus, icon, andres, npom}
and i'm like
somewhat confidently townreading npom, testa, and maaaaybe koba

we were gonna track ico last night ghahahaha

fuck me
fuck this game

[Datisi]

@andres, 13p usually have like 4 town PRs so like idk what your point is

[Datisi]

Inbefore Baltar gets next night again a guilty and you guys reveal there is actually a fourth Mason.

Baltar's role looks pretty weak with this (until the cat is out og the bag of course). I am unsure about the setup tbh. Are there comparable games with three Masons?

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81560

this is the one i pulled up in mason chat earlier. i haven't yet gone to check if there are any more.

considering we have a full pt cop AND a tracker, scum definitely has counterplay. rolecop makes sense.

[Datisi]

billy made a passing thought about a watcher... man that would be hilarious if he got caught like that...

also if anyone else is a town power role, they should probably claim. that would mean something very fishy is going on.

pedit: ah yes, this is actually a 12player masonry and a poor pt cop
the flips so far have all been trolls
this is an elaborate prank on baltar
surprise

[Datisi]

i think scum PT cop could fit, but in that case there is more town power (3masons v 3goons is considered slightly scumsided in a closed game, that + scum PT cop wouldn't pass review), which is why i'm saying, if you're town and not a VT, you should probably say something.

[Datisi]

err, there's a town tracker too, but like. i don'tt hink that's a good enough offset for scum PT cop? also idk baltar is dead tonight anyway.

[Datisi]

@aldus, who are the scumfucks

[Datisi]

Let's not be OMGUSy or anything.

Dude, wtf. You weren't voting for Dats. You voted for hellbooks. Wtf do you even mean?

I've found by stopping trying to make logical sense of anything he says and only focus on PoE with NPOM, my quality of life has significantly improved.

Yeah, the more I try to figure out how NPOM's play makes any sense as any alignment the more I confuse myself.

But, if you look at NPOM's wagon history + the PoE + maybe NPOM is shading Dats/VPB because he doesn't want either of them confirmed, then I think "NPOM scum, Bob town" makes sense.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

@andres, do you think aldus/npom scumteam ever makes this post

[Datisi]

lowkey feeling like i'm showing up in the middle of scum theatre here

discuss

[Datisi]

how insane would that be, imagine

ok but like npom is like a juicy misexecute target

like i'm having the same gutfeel of npom that i had yesterday with bob

i lowkey think no scum has been seriously threatened so far

[Datisi]

Do you really think it’s highly unlikely that Scum thought it would be prudent to distance?

ok but it's not *distancing*

it's "i don't like this *town wagon1*, i want *this town wagon2*, except i'm gonna do very little to stop wagon1 or push wagon2, then i'm gonna push wagon2 tomorrow after i get some Towncred"

[Datisi]

bob did have a post that andres/aldus are unlikely s/s however and i need to reread bob's iso because i'm sure we can figure out stuff from there

[Datisi]

i don't think you're an idiot regardless your alignment

at this point almost everyone has had some sorta argument with npom, and the way yesterday was going, it seemed pretty likely npom is gonna be the next target today

however current wagons and flips (and considering hellbooks was regarded as a likely scum meaning the "collective" PoE is very wrong) i have a feeling scum has been running this show which makes me highly skeptical the ~designated~ wagon for today is on scum

[Datisi]

Do you really think it’s highly unlikely that Scum thought it would be prudent to distance?

ok but it's not *distancing*

it's "i don't like this *town wagon1*, i want *this town wagon2*, except i'm gonna do very little to stop wagon1 or push wagon2, then i'm gonna push wagon2 tomorrow after i get some Towncred"

Have you never seen Scum hard bus a Teammate?

counterpoint: did that look lime *hard* bussing to you?

[Datisi]

Im at p 102

WTF am i reading

a tragedy

[Datisi]

was that a post for the scum PT? i feel like town is doing p shite right now

[Datisi]

koba we're not executing baltar

[Datisi]

koba he's a PT cop, please stop being this dense

[Datisi]

triple masons still need an additional source of town power, especially when scum has something like a rolecop... did you like, not look at the setup i linked...

[Datisi]

the person who thought that one 1-shot loyal neighborizer would be enough to balance an entire 10v3 is trying to tell me that the claimed PT cop is scum... my god.

[Datisi]

ar yeah because misreading a player acting like scum is the same as pretending to know how the games are balanced when you entered the game literally not even knowing how many scum there are, sure

[Datisi]

did you read my arguments why i think npom is town? and like what do you think?

[Datisi]

why do i even try...

[Datisi]

the 50/50 is honestly what i'm worried about

like i would very much like it more if you could *sit down with us* and *discuss* as opposed to "lol kk u choose but if ur wrong I'm instavoting tomorrow"

[Datisi]

i think it's fairly reasonable to assume scum had some sorta way to gain info about billy. and *not* just about billy being a mason (that is, not by *just* a PT cop), because a claimed tracker gets shot over a mason anytime. (not to mention, if the scumteam did have a PT cop who got a positive on billy on night one, there's nothing guaranteeing billy isn't just a neighbor. i don't think any scumteam shoot him just for that over a literal claimed tracker)

and if the scumteam did have some sorta way to find out info about billy (e.g. rolecop), then it's perfectly within balance for town to have both masons and a PT cop. (especially because the PT cop is like 50/50 between getting an actual guilty vs outing a mason. those things are taken into account when game is designed.)

again, if there's anyone else who is town and not a VT, say so immediately. otherwise, all 4 PRs are town, and we go from there.

[Datisi]

assuming that . moderator saying there is daytalk means that there is 100% daytalk and not encryptor controlled??

i'm not fully caught up yet but i wanna chime in on this, our masonry has daytalk and we don't have an encryptor. so scum does too.

[Datisi]

assuming that . moderator saying there is daytalk means that there is 100% daytalk and not encryptor controlled??

andres/aldu/testa

andres/aldu/you

andres/aldu/npom

in order of likiehood

wait uhhh koba is seeing aldu/andres as s/s?

also koba if you have something to claim you *really* have to claim it

there are definitely no more PRs and scum aren't gonna lolclaim a PR *now*

[Datisi]

assuming that . moderator saying there is daytalk means that there is 100% daytalk and not encryptor controlled??

andres/aldu/testa

andres/aldu/you

andres/aldu/npom

in order of likiehood

hmm... andrew, if i told you both me and hellbooks think NPOM is town, does that factor into your read of him?

[Datisi]

why are those quotes still there????

also andres*, sorry.

[Datisi]

then why are you appealing to confirmed town (billy) when pushing for NPOM when it obviously doesn't play a part?

pedit: lemme go check that out again actually

[Datisi]

well it's not confirmed all wrong

[Datisi]

What do you mean it doesn’t play a part? We’ve all been calling NPOM too Scummy to be Scum practically, yet they’re still here.

err, i meant, why are you saying "billy (conftown) saw NPOM as scum, maybe i should vote there" but reads of me/hellbooks don't play a part? and not sure what your point is there? yeah, we haven't executed him, and he didn't get nightkilled, so he's still here?

well it's not confirmed all wrong

Datisi, it’s wrong. I’m Town. You must think my Scum game is beyond anything you’ve ever seen if you think I can pull all of this off as Scum. I invite you to read any of my Scum games on my home site.

well i mean, i have never played with you before, how am i supposed to know what you can and cannot pull off as scum... sure, link me a few. can't promise i'll read in depth, but i can take a look.

[Datisi]

also i get that's not the sole reason why you're voting NPOM, i'm just saying, i found the ~appeal to billy~ weird

[Datisi]

ouch

[Datisi]

oh yeah i just remembered koba apparently has something to claim and i think i'm gonna peace out until that happens

also i need to talk to ico real time where is he

[Datisi]

he is not locktown to me

nobody is locktown to me

i am currently yelling at hellbooks in the mason PT asking if she could be a rat (this is a joke if that isn't clear)

[Datisi]

but the problem is everyone is lowkey ~aligning~ to execute npom
or not like everyone dut the Suspicious Slots
and like i am having the same gut reaction to that that i had with bob yesterday
which is "npom not good execute"
do you get what i mean

pedit: should answer that i think

[Datisi]

@Datisi I really do think you should pay attention to my 2845.

i'll pay attention to it don't worry
but like my priority rn is (1) see where ico's head is at and (2) find out what is koba hinting at

[Datisi]

because if npow is that locktown to you,

and i hope i still am as well

, your PoE is very interesting lol

did you miss who i said we were going to track last night?

[Datisi]

there are exactly zero votes on bob right now

[Datisi]

Andresvmb (2): Alduskkel, NoPowerOverMe

this? is anyone else voting for him right now?

[Datisi]

I think dkkoba reads like eager town. But my PoE says he's got considerable scum equity. Fuck me right?
...
Did I mention the paranoia about you guys having tracked someone to the nightkill, but is now practically locktown?

these two parts could actually be resolved Soon(tm)

also oh god oh fuck i'm tring ico again i can't

[Datisi]

But, if you look at NPOM's wagon history + the PoE + maybe NPOM is shading Dats/VPB because he doesn't want either of them confirmed, then I think "NPOM scum, Bob town" makes sense.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

my god how i hate this post

[Datisi]

aldus/koba/?????????????????????????????????????

[Datisi]

ok i'm stealing this from that testa post

Snow

:

GB

,

Baltar

,

Datisi

, Ico,

hellbooks

, Koba
Testa: Koba,

Datisi

, Aldus, Andres, NPOM, janko

bob

:

Baltar

,

hellbooks

, Andres, janko, NPOM, (Koba)
janko:

Datisi

,

bob

, Testa, Ico,

Billy

,

GB

, Aldus

bob3141

(6): Andresvmb,

VP Baltar

,

hellbooks

, Iconeum, DkKoba, NoPowerOverMe

i'm worKING ON IT ICOOOOOO

[Datisi]

i've said it before i'll say it again

i am extremely shite at reading people who do nothing but yell and boss others around

[Datisi]

Snow

:

GB

,

Baltar

,

Datisi

, Ico,

hellbooks

, Koba
Testa: Koba,

Datisi

, Aldus, Andres, NPOM,

janko

bob

:

Baltar

,

hellbooks

, Andres,

janko

, NPOM, (Koba)

janko

:

Datisi

,

bob

, Testa, Ico,

Billy

,

GB

, Aldus

bob3141

(6): Andresvmb,

VP Baltar

,

hellbooks

, Iconeum, DkKoba, NoPowerOverMe

forgot to color in janko because i'm stupid anyway

[Datisi]

my god i really do not want to fall into the trap of "hurr durr this wagon was on town so there must be scum on it" because that is not necessarily the case and wish i knew how to do VCA

[Datisi]

uhhhh which game is that

oh gun game? wagon on umlaut?

pedit: ah lol okay

[Datisi]

aldus/koba/testa?????????

does that make any lick of sense??????????????

does anything make any fuvking sense in this game?????

[Datisi]

you know what i'm just gonna fuck off until koba reappears and enlighten us with their claim

[Datisi]

I think we just need to align the block of dats/hellbrooks/Ico/VP and then we are basically golden and can't be influenced by the PoE pool.

how sure are you in town!ico?

[Datisi]

ahhh the joy of being late game conftown, how i fucking hate it

[Datisi]

it's okay we are all bad this game on this blessed day

except for three people <_< >_>

[Datisi]

Haha, wish I could get masonized for that sweet sweet private chat

ah yes, the sweet sweet mason chat... where there's big brain gamesolving going on.... and i'm defentely not crying......

Datisi and hells -- what is your preference today?

my : ) what now : )

in all seriousness i'm trying to ~figure out~ this game but whatever pairing i come up with there's something pointing against it and have i ever said how much i don't like being conftown in lategame?

like, i dunno. i *am* feeling paranoia about ico because no towngame of mine would be complete without feeling paranoia about him. but idk i just don't scumread him right now??? and i still have the gutfeel that npom was kinda being lined up as the scum's next misexecute

and assume those two are correct, then scum is 3 out of koba/testa/aldus/andres? what team fits there??

like i was lowkey hoping to talk More with ico tomorrow morning to hopefully figure out the read there because i need a Base to start solving the mess that is the 6 names in the PoE but uhh....

@koba, how come you're going from "ok you decide today but if wrong i'm instavoting in lylo tomorrow" to "i'll consolidate on what you three decide"?

[Datisi]

like the most coherent thought i have right now is that aldus can be scum, because that post of "bob prob town and npom is scum" is just like... just giving me a Mighty Bad Vibe...

[Datisi]

and the solve to you is the teams you presented earlier? aldus/andres/3rdslot?

[Datisi]

@Datisi, serious question. Do you really think I’m part of a Scum Team with Alduskkel?

The problem you have (I think) is that you’re TR NPOM, and you’re looking at the game through that lens. I know you recognize the significant uncertainty that read carries, but it’s leading you to the wrong conclusion. Why are you even considering joining a third wagon with the same group of players that have executed Town 2 days in a row?

What you should see, in my opinion, in a successful wagon today, is a significant difference in opinion

from the players in the POE

.

Do you think you’re getting that with me?

do i think that? not really, no. but i also don't think you're *not* a part of the same scumteam. what i mean by that is, i don't have a correct solve. if i did, we wouldn't be here having this discussion and would instead be smaccing scum.

also, i think i've mae it clear that my current strongest scumread (though do not mistake it for a strong scumread, my thoughts wrt this game are amess right now) is alduskkel. i don't get why you're being so... pessimisstic? fatalistic? i dunno. could you please clarify the bolded for me?