Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[Iconeum]

i'm not

i'm legit asking why people don't want to do tessa, i've been doing so for a while

testa is in my poe, but seems not to be in others

i wanna know why

[Iconeum]

town is plenty wake, andres

most of us are trying to sort

[Iconeum]

if i had a gun in hand right now, i'd shoot npow

[Iconeum]

and then flip someone in aldus/andres

[Iconeum]

dkkoba, why is testa in none of your solves?

[Iconeum]

But yeah how curious that the same wagon that’s been leading the wrong way all game lands on me and nobody bats an eye. If the Town this game don’t wake up to what is happening, then they never will.

andres, can you name this exact wagon you speak of?

[Iconeum]

Of course, you should factor in the odds that Scum are bussing. But, why would they do that when they haven’t had to the whole game.

because the PoE is getting very narrow

put yourself in scum shoes

how many more mislynches do they need?

[Iconeum]

it's why i'm not really holding on to my npow read: scum *will* be bussing at this point so a lot of scumreads on him aren't that abnormal

[Iconeum]

and for the love of all that is holy

can someone

anyone

please explain what makes testa so townie that it's not in your PoE right now?

[Iconeum]

Ico if you think I’m independently Scummy, then by all means. But Scum have been very good at isolating players this game and making them sound crazy by attacking them from all angles. And we have done nothing but get it wrong every time.

first off: 'all game' is 2 mislynches. It's day 3. We have had 2 mislynches, and have had the misfortune of having 2 main town wagons at EoD 1.
'every time' is exactly 2 times. Not more, not less. It's not that dramatic.

second, it's absolutely crazy that I cannot pinpoint even a single scum slot and go 'yeah this must be it'
not even you

[Iconeum]

I consider it not a lot, and i don't even consider it game losing.

[Iconeum]

andres if i wanted to execute you today that badly, i'd have voted for you by now

i haven't

there is work to be done but it is interesting a couple players want to get this over with fast

[Iconeum]

And at that stage, are you not completely gambling the game on VPB being Town? Because in the off-chance that they’re not, they *will* have a red check, and it will be wrong.

scum can literally not gamble on keeping a town!pt cop alive

[Iconeum]

13 players, assuming 3 scum

if we lynch scum today then we go 5v2 tomorrow, giving us another mislynch to work with

if we lynch town today, then we go to 4v3 tomorrow which would be bad, forcing all town to allign and kill scum. Rough ride from here on out.

[Iconeum]

If VPB is Scum, they will obviously be around tomorrow. And you will have to make a decision as to whether to trust the red check or clear, or yeet him. But anyway, I’m getting ahead of myself.

I have a lot of doubt as to whether Alduskkel is Scum. I do. This could be another situation where the Scum are just letting us eat each other alive. But how curious that none of the players I’ve mentioned are leaning towards Alduskkel and instead are landing on me.

there is literally no point in crossing that bridge until we get there. It might sort itself out.

i'm quite curious how it's possible NPOW is being so widely scumread with no votes on him, and why nobody is wanting to answer the testa townread

[Iconeum]

No, you're scum because

Not Aldus(because Andres is scum and I see them as TvS)
Andres scum(see Above)
Billy flipped town
bob flipped town
Datisi looks pretty much confirmed town
DKK is playing pretty townie
George flipped town
hellbrooks could maybe be the third scum
Icon as I said you look scummier than DKK
janko flipped town
Test could be the third scum
VP is almost confirmed town

NPOW talk about these reads a bit?
What is DKK doing that reads townie to you, that i'm not? Why is hellbooks possibly scum in this readlist? Why could test be scum according to you?

[Iconeum]

am here talk to me

please

because if npow is that locktown to you, and i hope i still am as well, your PoE is very interesting lol

[Iconeum]

so datisi's PoE is smt like Andres/dkkoba/aldus/testa for all 3 scum?

[Iconeum]

ok let's not call it locktown

but town enough for you to defend him in what is the most important discussion in the game

[Iconeum]

datisi do you think Npow is being scumread by a lot of people?

[Iconeum]

but the problem is everyone is lowkey ~aligning~ to execute npom
or not like everyone dut the Suspicious Slots
and like i am having the same gut reaction to that that i had with bob yesterday
which is "npom not good execute"
do you get what i mean

pedit: should answer that i think

how many votes are there on bob exactly?

if we take away andres' vote from just now, i think zero?

[Iconeum]

because if npow is that locktown to you,

and i hope i still am as well

, your PoE is very interesting lol

did you miss who i said we were going to track last night?

exactly why i made that remark

[Iconeum]

if you say people are lowkey alligning on bob
with 1 vote there currently

what do you think of the L-2 wagon that instantly developped on andres?

[Iconeum]

god, i mean NPOW

[Iconeum]

you wanna know where my head is at?

sure

I think the wagon on andres developped way too easily, especially considering the number of people who expressed a scumread on NPOW, or have him in PoE but aren't voting there
I think andres could be scum, but it's AtE is screaming town to me.

I think dkkoba reads like eager town. But my PoE says he's got considerable scum equity. Fuck me right?

I think testa is possibly scum, but i'm being told from all sides that testa is town. And when asking those people why, i'm getting exactly zero response.

I think Aldus is in the PoE, but when rereading him I can't read it as coming from scum. It's purely PoE.

Did I mention the paranoia about you guys having tracked someone to the nightkill, but is now practically locktown?

[Iconeum]

wait kooba is voting for npow

not andres

hmmmmm

[Iconeum]

Aldus + Testa + Npow scumteam

there

how much sense does this make?

[Iconeum]

TESTA

WHY ARE YOU NOT EVEN CONSIDERING TESTA

ENLIGHTEN ME

[Iconeum]

and yeah, koba is in there but you don't actually scumread him do you?

neither do i

[Iconeum]

i was even reading that dkkoba 'omg look guys npow townslipped' as scum theater

[Iconeum]

didn't we just have a game where we made that mistake

literally 'there must have been scum on that wagon' and post game we were all like 'omg yeah that was an all town wagon'

[Iconeum]

at least, i had that

you were scum:p

[Iconeum]

Part of me says VP has acted consistantly scummy and wants to lynch him. Another part of me says we don't want to lose a town PR on a hunch.

why do u consistently act scummy and then come up with gems like this that give me pause.

kobba did you give npow towncredit for this post or was this sarcasm?

[Iconeum]

yeah let's hear a kobba claim

[Iconeum]

@Ico:
Why do you think that Aldus is town or at least not scum? Just by your poe?

you have that backwards

i don't scumread him in ISO, but he is on my scumlist because PoE

[Iconeum]

Purely in terms of votes, and outside of NPOM, Tess has only voted for Town (and me).

and who exactly has voted for scum among the players?

[Iconeum]

I don't see Andres acting this way as town.

what exactly?

[Iconeum]

NPOW i've got this feeling you are avoiding me

[Iconeum]

VOTE: NPOW

i won't be able to overcome this if we are both alive tomorrow NPOW
your complete lack of thoughts process
your conclusion that i am scum because i look scummier then dkkoba
your not responding to me
your readslist that just *feels* made up
the way you seem to try and keep everything open

like

NPOW+Dkobba+Aldus is starting to look really good as a team here

[Iconeum]

@datisi

if it's literally 'omg i think npow is town because it feels like he was being alligned for a mislynch', then we are done talking about it

I think that's a bullshit read, with respect. It feels so much more like andres is the designated mislynch here.
If there's other actual content that makes you have a strong townread on NPOW then hit me with it but otherwise… I think we flip there

[Iconeum]

yall really desperately need that ML dont you

[Iconeum]

i like to think im pretty obv town at this point so anyone trying to say otherwise is fairly scummy to me

actually i'd like to say the same thing about me

[Iconeum]

that doesn't mean NPOW isn't just scum here

[Iconeum]

hmmmm

dk + npow doesn't actually make a ton of sense if you read there combined ISO's...

[Iconeum]

dk went after NPOW on several occasions and i wasn't detecting anything fake there

more like a 'whatever let's just get this flipped' attitude

[Iconeum]

so testa/aldu/andres is not possible in your eyes?

at this moment i think both testa and andres are the 2 towniest in the Poe

could i be wrong? absolutely
but it sure feels that way

[Iconeum]

maybe we should just flip aldus tbf

[Iconeum]

NPOW + aldus can work

npow has been calling a scum in andres+aldus for a while, and he's pretty adamant on flipping andres

[Iconeum]

this just in

*BREAKING NEWS*

Live Footage of Iconeum's reads in mini normal 2157 - AKA "The Trainwreck#54"

[Iconeum]

and i don't have that?

am i not sorting?

you are avoiding me because you don't seem to wanna respond to my questioning of your readslist

[Iconeum]

No, you're scum because

Not Aldus(because Andres is scum and I see them as TvS)
Andres scum(see Above)
Billy flipped town
bob flipped town
Datisi looks pretty much confirmed town
DKK is playing pretty townie
George flipped town
hellbrooks could maybe be the third scum
Icon as I said you look scummier than DKK
janko flipped town
Test could be the third scum
VP is almost confirmed town

NPOW talk about these reads a bit

?

What is DKK doing that reads townie to you, that i'm not

?

Why is hellbooks possibly scum in this readlist

?

Why could test be scum according to you

?

here i bolded them for you

[Iconeum]

rereading, and i really feel like both andres and testa are at least appearing to be solving whereas NPOW just *has* reads that he doesn't explain and doesn't progress, and doesn't try to sort

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:

very well

just tell me where to place my vote

[Iconeum]

i mean

i'm here to bounce ideas but i don't know how to solve this if i have to treat NPOW as town

[Iconeum]

npow town then i'm wrong in testa/andres

[Iconeum]

i don't wanna do the "well what conftowns decide" because (1) that's boring (2) uhhh no

ok bullet points, 100 words or less, why is npom scum

and do you agree that aldus/npom are relatively unlikely to be s/s

VOTE: NPOW

i won't be able to overcome this if we are both alive tomorrow NPOW
your complete lack of thoughts process
your conclusion that i am scum because i look scummier then dkkoba
your not responding to me
your readslist that just *feels* made up
the way you seem to try and keep everything open

like

NPOW+Dkobba+Aldus is starting to look really good as a team here

NPOW + aldus can work

npow has been calling a scum in andres+aldus for a while, and he's pretty adamant on flipping andres

[Iconeum]

i'd flip aldus

definitely

[Iconeum]

oh i see why you don't think it's aldus + npow there

[Iconeum]

but in the same breath, you can say that it's not npow + dk

so aldus and dk?

and then maybe testa?

[Iconeum]

i'm not blind tho

i realize that i'm partially scumreading npow for reasons that i scumread janko for: not wanting to/refusing to explain thoughts and reads

and we know how that flip ended...

[Iconeum]

ico, you said you got the feeling andres was the Designated Misexecute today, right? talk to me about that?

i kinda already did?

you say you felt like people were alligning on npow (but there weren't any votes on him), while i thought that way too many people were scumreading andres and it got to L-2 so fast which makes me hesitant. Like how you felt about npow but with actual votes there

also i read andres and i just don't scumread it while i read npow and still think that it can flip scum so…

rough game

[Iconeum]

what about a reverse sort?

townhunt?

[Iconeum]

Testarossa
2.DkKoba JamSV
4.Alduskkel
7.Andresvmb
8.NoPowerOverMe


datisi+hellbooks +ico+VP

leaves 5 slots with 2 town

Testarossa
2.DkKoba JamSV
4.Alduskkel
7.Andresvmb
8.NoPowerOverMe

if we both have a veto, npow and andres are town

so we get to aldus+testa+dk

but like, i townread dk? kinda? which wouldn't surprise me if we are wrong about 1 in npow/andres

[Iconeum]

aldus seems like a good flip

[Iconeum]

yeah well

like it or not but you and hell are gonna have to carry right now

out of those 6 players you *need* to establish a town base with

doesn't have to be set in stone but even with a scumflip today we need solid town voting allignment on next days

let alone if we mislynch again

[Iconeum]

which 2 players do you think have highest chance of actually flipping town if you could see right now

[Iconeum]

and then you basicly… close your eyes and take the leap lol

[Iconeum]

if aldus flips scum and like, testa is town -> i'd look at ico
dancing around aldus, saying he'd be a good flip, never going thru with it

i've only been saying i think aldus is a good flip since *today*

and i'd definitely go thru with it

[Iconeum]

also i'm really really annoyed by NPOW who is now confirmed actually ignoring me

[Iconeum]

aldus/npow

if i had the choice

[Iconeum]

ico is testa town?

i don't know

but i've literally been asking why testa is scum to literally everyone and i've not gotten a single answer so...

[Iconeum]

why do u think hangbait npom is scum. like they are chaotic but why is it scum chaotic.

i have posted this already

then i have quoted it to someone else who asked me this question

i'm not gonna do that a third time

[Iconeum]

like, if you've been reading this game then you know why i scumread npow

[Iconeum]

and NPOW's extremely dodgy behaviour towards me is only reinforcing that read btw

[Iconeum]

weekend vla

imminent

still have a couple of hours left to play today

[Iconeum]

koba have you done the math?

[Iconeum]

because you cannot have all of

1)npow as town
2)me as town
3)aldus as town

[Iconeum]

i understand that, i'm i'm also heavily considering datisi's opinion on the slot

which is why i'm not pushing for that lynch

why testa over aldus?

[Iconeum]

and i suppose you consider yourself as town in the PoE?

Npow seems to be your townread

who's the other town in the bunch?

[Iconeum]

i just disagree

i think andres is town

or it has me solidly fooled but i read it and reread it and i just don't see scum in it's posting

[Iconeum]

ok but u literally see how he deadass realized on d3 like "oh shit the scum pool is too narrow with me townreading koba i need to scumread them suddenly" like that comes from town.

this literally applies to NPOW as well

[Iconeum]

ok but u literally see how

NPOW

deadass realized on d3 like "oh shit the scum pool is too narrow with me townreading

Ico

i need to scumread them suddenly" like that comes from town.

[Iconeum]

i'd expect scum!andres to effectively keep as many mis-execute opportunities open as possible, but that's not the play it went for

[Iconeum]

NPOW on the other hand, came into today with a readslist that did in fact have options open, and that went in straight against his earlier reads with a half-ass donkey explanation attached to it.
And when I asked him REPEATIDLY to explain them he went 'lol you didn't put '?' in them so i don't answer it' basicly (while it's in fact not even true)

and then yesterday i again quoted the questions and he didn't even bother acknowledging it

[Iconeum]

Koba, you have had reads evolve during this day
you are actively sorting and engaging with players ur unsure about

andres was doing the same

that's why my reads are now at andres town + 1 of koba/testa. Ish.

NPOW has had ZERO evolution, zero interaction, and ignoring any kind of responsability towards explaining his thoughts

[Iconeum]

aldus v andres is VERY HIGLY likely S v T

[Iconeum]

Andres is trying to avoid being eliminated by discrediting me and whining about losing to me if I am scum.

I would eliminate Aldus as a second option if necessary but not my first choice.

Test is my third choice but I don't think it will come to that.

literally

we flip aldus

if that is scum, NPOW is close to confirmed buddy

[Iconeum]

my gut says bob is town but I'm starting to think association-wise Bob might be the best lynch.

screw it flipping bob will get me a better read on DKK and that's more important in the long run.

VOTE: bob

how is this town

[Iconeum]

yeah i'm switching to hard pushing NPOW here

sue me

aldus + npow + ??

is incredibly close to game solving imo

[Iconeum]

@datisi
@hellbooks

aldus or npow

i think anything else we lose the game

[Iconeum]

i'm p sure we can allign 5 votes like

datisi/hell/ico/koba/andres/VP - one to spare even

which should be fairly close to being all town anyway

[Iconeum]

VOTE: aldus

[Iconeum]

failed attempt at shading recorded -

please try again

[Iconeum]

yo NPOW, what point are you trying to make by saying i don't know what i'm doing?

[Iconeum]

dude

wtf are you doing

[Iconeum]

you shouldn't be posting stuff like that - i'm pretty sure it's against at least 1 site rule

[Iconeum]

I'm saying maybe you should actually consider that some of us have lives and I can name 20 scummy things Andres has done for every 1 thing you think I have done.

no u can't

u haven't

and u won't

[Iconeum]

Which rule. It's not lewd or derogatory or racist.

what about outside influence

[Iconeum]

overly demanding?

because i'm asking you to explain your reads that you posted DAYS ago?

gtfo

[Iconeum]

you managed to respond to others just fine so yeah

my conclusion is that you are dodging my questions on purpose

[Iconeum]

other people's thoughts about a koba+npow+aldus team (not saying i'm currently at this)

[Iconeum]

this is kinda funny since it implies both koba and I have been bussing NPOM but it hasn't gone through because too many townies are like "nah that's elimbait"

seeing how koba has NPOW as locktown (right?), i'm not really seeing the bussing there…

[Iconeum]

hello i'm catching up at 5 am lol.

coffee is your friend

[Iconeum]

i have to admit that koba is by far the longshot in that team

[Iconeum]

and i'm pushing you, aldus, as the lynch because if you flip scum i have a feeling that i can sell scum!npow a lot better then i can now

[Iconeum]

not to mention that if you flip scum, aldus, andres is gonna be in the townblock

[Iconeum]

rawr!

20 hours to go, lemme catchup real quick here

[Iconeum]

holy shit i see the masons voting on seperate wagons on this page alone?????????

WTF??????

[Iconeum]

you guys cant' even agree?

[Iconeum]

if testa flips scum here

Testarossa (4): DkKoba, NoPowerOverMe, Alduskkel, VP Baltar
Alduskkel (3): Andresvmb, Iconeum, Testarossa

this should say it all

[Iconeum]

if testa scum, we are flipping the scumteam of NPOW/Aldus/DKkoba next - with an outside shot of andres being scum instead of Dkkoba

so we will flip both of aldus + npow first

[Iconeum]

ok but what do u think its flipping.

i think town

[Iconeum]

did NPOW ever got any kind of pressure to respond to me?

did he in fact ever got around to responding?

or did you guys let him go about?

[Iconeum]

i'll also say that

if testa does flip scum

i'm probably wrong about andres as well and i won't stop an execute there

[Iconeum]

I don't see Andres acting this way as town.

If you want to give into Andres appeal to emotions then that's on you.

I'm willing to consider aldus scum. But the more I hear from Andres the more I think he's town.

NPOW is so blatantly scummy this game it's making my eyes bleed

[Iconeum]

oh look

quell surprise

NPOW didn't respond to ANY of my questions

i guess he didn't have the time

right?

[Iconeum]

npom never flips scum stop trying it

if testa flips town, i'm coming for him and aldus

you haven't seen me go full dragon mode

but you will

[Iconeum]

if testa flips scum, then i'm probably be more like a puppy dragon, say i'm sorry, and just follow ya'll onto andres and aldus

because you know

aldus is probably scum in either team

which is why he was the best flip today

[Iconeum]

this is me freaking out over a flip that I really really dislike, and seeing our conftowns being on seperate wagons because you know

wHy NoT

[Iconeum]

meh i'll stop my ranting here

i'm not as sure about town!testa as it might appear

we can do this post-flip

[Iconeum]

we'll find out soon enough i guess

[Iconeum]

aldu if u vote testa ill tr u for free

lol i'll take what I can get

VOTE: Testarossa

But the more I hear from Andres the more I think he's town.

maybe i was overestimating the strenght of this statement

I meant the more I think Aldus is town.

sooooo... you meant the exact opposite of what you said basically?

oops

lmao

how is anyone who reads this post expecting aldus to be town, and testa to flip scum?

[Iconeum]

aldu if u vote testa ill tr u for free

lol i'll take what I can get

VOTE: Testarossa

this feels scummy

[Iconeum]

these were the wagons on day one. we know ~for a fact~ there's scum in {koba, aldus, anres, npom}, the unconfirmed on testa's wagon on day one

agreed

and still half of your masonry is voting outside of this bracket

lol

[Iconeum]

VOTE: testarossa

I feel pretty comfortable putting my vote back here now. I really don't see koba scum. The likelihood of either Aldus or Testa being scum seems strong, and testa has scummier actual behaviors imo. Not loving the desperation of Aldus' vote, but unless he is scum with NPOM or Koba, this wagon seems very town comprised. (And it's hard to see either combo given my town reads on those slots.)

i don't see it this way

conf!town datisi isn't voting there now that it's gone thru, and neither am i (who i know is town)

so yeah

[Iconeum]

we tricking scum into voting their partners for pretend towncred u love to see it!!

sure, there's a chance scum!aldus is bussing there

won't deny that

[Iconeum]

honestly im just sick of thsi game so im just forcing thru what i feel the solve is at this point and if im wrong its whatever gg no re go agane next time

the issue with this is that YOU seem to be forcing the issue when there are not one, not TWO, BUT THREE confirmed towns who should be leading this game

[Iconeum]

VOTE: testa
if testa's town datisi can shout at me in our PT

not intentionally wanna say bad things but

when masons are playing like this, town has no chance

[Iconeum]

from my experience in chat mafia, i find that the POV of an unclear is stronger than a clear's pov.

from my experience in forum mafia

when confirmed masons are publicly disagreeing with each other and are on seperate competing wagons

the game is already over

[Iconeum]

testa + aldus + andres is your solve?

at least we'll be able to flip aldus tomorrow then

[Iconeum]

i really hope testa flips scum because otherwise i'm almost certainly getting miselim'd tomorrow

*crosses fingers*

don't worry

testa scum means you are still scum

[Iconeum]

imagine scum getting away with bussing in 2020 lol

[Iconeum]

aldus you don't honestly think koba's offer with that free tr was serious do you?

he played you like a fiddle in that case XD

[Iconeum]

oh shit u got me

somehow you avoided the rope today, so we didn't get you at all

[Iconeum]

if both competing wagons D1

AND both competing wagons D3

are town

ima eat my shoe

[Iconeum]

i really hope testa flips scum because otherwise i'm almost certainly getting miselim'd tomorrow

*crosses fingers*

this post alone

makes a testa scum flip

about 100.000% more likely

[Iconeum]

where's our precious mod

[Iconeum]

i want a flip lol

[Iconeum]

wow

what the fuck kind of a game is this

just wait until start of Day 4 when i'm outed as an IC

[Iconeum]

loyal jailkeeper? XD

[Iconeum]

guys i'm a jester

any self-respecting jester would have self-hammered…

so ur either lying, or playing anti-wincon?

[Iconeum]

assuming so i cant use it on sc*m

you just perspective slipped wow

[Iconeum]

the wifom aaaaaaaaa

[Iconeum]

if it's like koba says

and both testa and aldus are scum

i guess it's ok?

[Iconeum]

Roadmap for the rest of the game:

Tessa flips scum -> Aldus is flipped, probably scum -> we have a big argument about andres V npow -> we conclude we have 1 mislynch to spare so we just go auto and yeet to victory *

Tessa flips town -> I yell at the masonry -> I yell at koba that his NPOW townread is fucked up -> people start yelling at me that I'm acting scummy again -> I have to defend Andres from being misflipped -> people are now yelling at everyone else, including the masons in their PT -> we misyeet either of me/andres **

*I apologize to everyone for having terrible reads as we share our win and have a hug (social distancing!) and laugh for taking the win
**Post-game will include a lot more yelling, and crying

[Iconeum]

There is an alternate scenario where, somehow, VP isn't nightkilled and he comes out with a guilty but... let's not go there :p

[Iconeum]

hmm

if this is a scum gambit thinking they can sell scum!VP to us i've got some bad news for them

[Iconeum]

right

scum taking away my support

we are lynching npow/aldus today

scumteam is npow + aldus + koba(with a chance of it being andres instead of koba)

[Iconeum]

the entire town needs to allign right here and now

vp + hell + me +andres

we are voting npow

[Iconeum]

if we cannot allign this townblock

it's over and we might as well self vote

[Iconeum]

koba

i don't care which allignment you happen to be but

if you are town

you are now following my lead

roger that?

[Iconeum]

VP

action claim plz

i REALLY hope you investigated in koba/andres because i think we win if you did

[Iconeum]

nobody is fucking voting

or it's a scumclaim

until at least VP claims

[Iconeum]

i have a bunch of stuff layed out, ready to post

just wanna hear VP claim first

and hopefully some positive response that the townblock has a shot here

[Iconeum]

we only lose in the scenario where vp is scum

which is so unlikely

[Iconeum]

it's also not accurate because it still requires both hell and vp to townread me

[Iconeum]

and andres

[Iconeum]

and it has to be andres town instead of npow

lol

[Iconeum]

sUrpRisEd

[Iconeum]

npow buddy

you played a good game

but your time is up

[Iconeum]

i don't trust what's going on here

VP is pretty much confirmed town

because we know scum hit the *actual* mason tracker despite datisi claiming it
that means scum have intel that hit there N1

and VP is confirmed on GB N1, so not him

and scum do NOT have 2 power roles

[Iconeum]

which means that, even if you doubt me, koba is still a guilty

[Iconeum]

hellbooks

you *will* have to townread me at some point

or this is still a loss

[Iconeum]

and scum do NOT have 2 power roles

VP could be a goon

have i

missed something

in my calculations

i wouldn't put that past myself lol

[Iconeum]

why did he claim PT cop?

it makes so much sense in a setup like this to give town exactly that

[Iconeum]

oof i'm really not the one to talk mech with

[Iconeum]

but what i think this is

3 mason with a mason tracker and a PT cop generating false guilties

vs some thing like a rolecop

feels balanced

[Iconeum]

No scum are dead. So scum could have virtually anything.

scum knew exactly who they wanted dead N2

they killed the exact mason tracker despite a claim from datisi

and they did NOT know that from VP


so it doesn't matter what investigative they have

VP being PT cop makes a ton of sense seeing we have 3 masons because of the false positives it can generate



if VP is lying then all we have are 3 masons with a tracker vs an investigative which doesn't really feel strong

and i know who made this setup, this reeks of him

[Iconeum]

i think i'm just going to clear ico in my head but like i feel like scum is in an extraordinarily strong position and that probably makes it easier to really dissolve oneself in the town mindset

well

at one point this will come down to

1)we believe vp
2)we don't

it's literally a coinflip

but a necesarry one

[Iconeum]

the coincidence of tracking him to the kill

or the balanced look of him actually having that role *and claiming it prior to mason claims*

[Iconeum]

hey ehm

you never came around to answering my questions

care to do that sometime soon?

[Iconeum]

or maybe you can't because i didn't you capitalization?

[Iconeum]

VP, what made you decide to investigate koba exactly?

[Iconeum]

i'm perfectly willing to lose this game if VP is scum

and on the side that he has a guilty, we have a decent shot at winning still

[Iconeum]

i don't mind you doing that at all

there *is* a chance, VP, simple as that

do you guys think i'm right about andres now or?

[Iconeum]

i'll be back tomorrow

[Iconeum]

a new day

new flips

VP not dead despite what *should* have happened

a lot changed

[Iconeum]

You know this is ello right?

answer my questions

[Iconeum]

Not lynching outside of Kooba npow roday

I'm done wit following and I'm pushing my own thoughts theu

[Iconeum]

And seriously, why should I ignore my gut just because you conveniently come out with a guilty in ELo?

Stop being egotistical. Your gut is not better than my proven PT cop ability, nor are you more town than me just because you weren't on the testa wagon.

I have a confirmed guilty. I'd have to be a mind reader as scum to get to this position faking it. Koba is the elimination.

Your ability is proven, I agree. There’s no doubt in my mind that the actual ability to check for PTs is present in the game. But I’m not being egotistical. I don’t trust you. It’s just plain and simple. You tried to participate on a wagon on me that was clearly Scum motivated. And it’s plain for everyone to see, since the identical wagon then formed on Testa who was Town and as a counter wagon to a slot that I’m almost certain is Scum.

holy shit i cannot stress enough how much i dislike this andres post

[Iconeum]

Don’t we have to as some point? If VPB is Town, does anyone really think the Scum are stupid enough to let him keep on going to clear more players in future days? C’mon now

Actually, ur wrong.

In the case of scum!VP, he won't die.
In the case of town!VP, he won't die. In this scenario, scum are committed to the frame. If we flip for example aldus today and he is scum, and scum then kill VP, we *KNOW* koba is scum. OTOH, if scum kill Hellbooks, who is actually conftown, scum can continue sowing distrust and WIFOM surrounding VP.

[Iconeum]

Typical Andres. No action behind his words.

WHY DID WE NOT JUST KILL THIS SCUM ON ANY OF THE PREVIOUS DAYYYSSSSS

[Iconeum]

so you think aldus is the other town NPOM?

Not exactly sure. Aldus or icon.

omg

nice

yeah i can see ur doubting a town between aldus or me

that's why you are engaging with me like you are -> again completely ignoring me

gtfo

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Alduskkel

Hellbooks is a Mason, and VPB/DkKoba contains at most 1 Scum. That leaves 2 Scum from my POV between Ico/Aldus/NPOM. If everyone’s assessment of Ico is wrong, we lose anyway. If you still include Ico in the group as a possibility, then your choice is at worst a 50/50 anyway, since Hellbooks is Confirmed. This is always correct from my POV. It’s a 66.7% chance of hitting if I vote randomly amongst the group, versus a straight 50/50 between DkKoba/VPB, and I’m obviously not voting randomly since I have a high degree of certainty that Ico is Town.

this is only a good play if we are in a world where we are doubting VP

which is a world we lose in anyhow

so i'm actually fine playing follow the cop today and sucking up the loss if that happens

[Iconeum]

datisi didnt flip mason

my dude

are you gonna try and shade a confirmed and FLIPPED town mason?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: NPOM

Sure. Same odds.

huh

ok i can see town!andres' point trying to make here

[Iconeum]

Giving VPB the chance to use his ability again, and either clear a player or identify another Scum. Why is it so hard for all of you to see the obvious strategic benefit? I really don’t get it. So you think the Scum theoretically takes the chance that VPB has a hard solve?

andres, as long as we don't straight out flip VP, he can use his ability again. It doesn't matter if we flip his supposed guilty or not.

[Iconeum]

do you think the janko wagon was all town then ico?

aldus most likely scum

and rest of scum scattered all over the place explains perfectly why it was so hard to get a majority

[Iconeum]

CONFIRMED GUILTY

If you don't believe it, then flip me and lose this game. I really cannot even deal with people not getting how simple this is. You either think I'm scum or I have a guilty. The cross votes prove it.

and this is what it comes down to

we either agree on VP being town today, and then we flip koba
or we agree that VP is scum, and then we should flip VP

i'm solidly in the first one here

[Iconeum]

Lol the scum flailing today after having a run of miseliminations is hilarious.

CONFIRMED GUILTY

If you don't believe it, then flip me and lose this game. I really cannot even deal with people not getting how simple this is. You either think I'm scum or I have a guilty. The cross votes prove it.

wow these 2 posts really excel at showing how much vp cares about assisting in gamesolving over just shoving a hang through.

nice shade
i don't see why he should be thinking of gamesolving when he has a literal guilty in his hands lol

[Iconeum]

vote me idiot

fuck you and fuck off

call me an idiot one more time and we can get banned

let's go

[Iconeum]

koba what's your explanation for why VP had a false positive on me D3

Rolecop

This is further backed up by the fact billy died over datisi n2

so you think this setup is balanced with 3 masons, 1 mason tracker, and a rolecop?

[Iconeum]

wait

big brain time

[Iconeum]

This day has become WIFOM central. Here are basically the only facts anyone should be troubling themselves with:

1) VP has was forced to reveal he is a PT Cop in a gambit by Datisi, who claimed loyal neighborizer rather than tracker.
2) VP truthfully noted he visited George Bailey. (confirmed by hidden Billy track)
2) We believe scum have a rolecop and that's how they found Billy. That makes it extremely unlikely scum also have a PT cop.
3) VP has proven he is a PT cop by getting a false positive on hellbrooks.
4) VP has claimed a guilty on Koba.
5) Koba and VP have voted each other without a hammer, therefore one of them must be scum.

I'm trying to present the above facts as unbiased as I can, so people can see how ridiculous it is to think Koba is not scum in this situation.

thanks for doing this
i forgot the most important of my thoughts

VP has to be town here because of this logic
Billy got outed to scum on N1, and not by VP who got tracked to GB. VP had a false positive on Hellbooks, which means VP is a pt cop. If VP scum, then scum have 2 investigative roles vs 3 mason + 1 tracker in the masons. NEVER happening.

I'm down to settling this on koba. If game continues, andres blew a fuckload of town credit away lol

[Iconeum]

Nah ico wants to act dumb and pretend like vp isnt conf scum for living 2 days after being outted

i don't see why not, with an entire masonry outed

[Iconeum]

some of yall need a little experience with some epicmafia mechanical setups and tell me how often u avoid killing an investigative role.
Bc u dont
Bc its stupid
Bc u have to be a game throwing asshole to do it

this is true to some extent

but ignores other factors like VP's reads, where he hard townreads at least 1 of the scum
-> a chance VP doesn't come out with a guilty
-> a chance to discredit the guilty like is happening right now

so yeah, there are worlds where this happens

Koba, don't get me wrong. I'm convinced you Always kill VP as scum v town. But you aren't alone in your scum PT if ur scum. Others may have overruled you. Mistakenly so, but it could be.

[Iconeum]

Ico I really don’t understand why you aren’t thinking clearly. So I’m Scum now? I fought to save Testa for what? And the same wagon that killed Town Testa previously formed on me, but that was all a master plan from Scum?

no i i'm sticking to townreading you but... you can at least understand the paranoia coming from you discrediting what is most likely just a guilty, right?

scum!you would be doing exactly this to win the game right here and now, IF ur scum. Do you see that?

[Iconeum]

Ico please explain why Aldus is still around after my vote has been on them for 10+ hours.

i'm fairly sure aldus is scum

i'm extremely sure NPOW is scum

and i'm doubting VP v Andres more then I should be

[Iconeum]

Ico I really don’t understand why you aren’t thinking clearly. So I’m Scum now? I fought to save Testa for what? And the same wagon that killed Town Testa previously formed on me, but that was all a master plan from Scum?

no i i'm sticking to townreading you but... you can at least understand the paranoia coming from you discrediting what is most likely just a guilty, right?

scum!you would be doing exactly this to win the game right here and now, IF ur scum. Do you see that?

No. Your argument assumes I would make the suboptimal move. I don’t have to make any waves if VPB is Town and has identified a Partner. I quietly bus, kill VPB, and then you have to correctly decide who is Scum within 5 where it’s still ELo and I’ve built a lot of Town cred for not being on Testa.

fair point
that's what i would do

[Iconeum]

so there is a world where it's ico + andres + koba town