Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[innocentvillager]

ah well

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: zombie

[innocentvillager]

yup Nep is town ez

[innocentvillager]

I guess una is town too

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: zombie

why?

yup Nep is town ez

why?

I guess una is town too

why>

you really think scum!Nep faked her blocked report, mod saw it went oh fuck, locked the game, and Nep got a new result?

and you think scum!una outs like that to directly cc town!Nep for no reason?? Unless you think they’re scum together but that doesn’t make sense either

[innocentvillager]

am I missing something? I feel like they’re obviously telling the truth

And SS strongly believes zombie is scum for reasons I don’t care to question

[innocentvillager]

so the error was una rolestopped Nep and mod interpreted it as a roleblock and gave Nep no result? I assume that’s what happened? Idk if speculating this is anti rules buttttttt it’s there

[innocentvillager]

oh

can there be scum rolestoppers and trackers

I’m assuming yes given that you’re asking me this

[innocentvillager]

I’m sheeping SS and he’s in my poe and I don’t TR him

Hi plus you’re scum this game!

[innocentvillager]

yeah okay idk anymore then, I guess they can be telling the truth with their claims and still be scum

[innocentvillager]

yeah I don’t think scum!una needs to out like that, it’s just so unnecessary if he is scum I think?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYEDVOTE: PlusJOYED

that is terrifying but good vote i guess

[innocentvillager]

also dw i suck at mafia more than anyone, ur in good company

that is definitely not true in the slightest wtf

I can’t think of a scarier player than you off the top of my head

[innocentvillager]

LOL you did this to yourself by replacing in

[innocentvillager]

{NM}
{Lilith, Nep, SS, Una}
{four}
{bp, worsty, water}
{plus}

[innocentvillager]

thanksinnocentvillager

you have a point this might be scarier than the one with you

[innocentvillager]

true, maybe he is an informed scum instead of an informed townie

[innocentvillager]

true, maybe he is an informed scum instead of an informed townie

[innocentvillager]

i think it's quite a clever fakeclaim (if it's a fakeclaim) but i'd be very loathe to clear someone off it especially when the setup feels like... quite heavy?

can you elaborate on this? i know like nothing about closed games despite my join date

like are you saying there are too many PRs?

[innocentvillager]

the one thing i do know is that town gunsmith + 2-shot cop are probably direct ccs in a 2scum vs 8townie closed game, lol

rolecop +

rolestopper, tracker, neap, informed townie does seem like too much? but that's mostly extrapolating conjecture

like if plus slot is lying about the neap or is the scum version of that (i assume that's possible too) then it could work?

[innocentvillager]

because i feel a strange sense of despair

i almost townread you for this but i think it's plausible if you have a deepwolf in the townreads :/

i don't think scum!worsty who is scum with water+plus says this, or even bp+plus

maybe it really is just plus+water+bp

[innocentvillager]

idk tbh im used to two scum, three is like a little too many to reasonably look at associations when there are still three left because there are so many angles scum could go for i feel like

[innocentvillager]

yeah i think i feel good about plus's neap claim being fake that claim was forced from pressure and one with the least amount of town!motivation and most amount of scum!motivation

[innocentvillager]

maybe what he planned to claim if wagoned? idk don't scum fakecrumb stuff like this?

[innocentvillager]

i guess it makes it slightly less likely it's a fakeclaim huh... but still

[innocentvillager]

okay yeah and if that's true then definitely

also couldve just crumbed' 2nd and 3rd but be referring to something else on Night 2 and 3

[innocentvillager]

hey plus you could also start on page 129!

[innocentvillager]

what is going on

[innocentvillager]

plus is still scum I think

idk about worsty anymore, jesus I have never seen that level of scum theatre if worsty is the partner

it’s so like... roamy and bouncy and doesn’t seem agenda-y

[innocentvillager]

Froppy is probably scum

i think I am starting to believe bp town? ughh

[innocentvillager]

anything I should respond to? I see a wagon has started on me, feels unlikely there isn’t scum on here

[innocentvillager]

this would be a performance from scum!worsty I feel like even I would be impressed by

[innocentvillager]

is a bold scum worsty trying to recruit a pocket

what does this even mean lmao

[innocentvillager]

idk I think you just replaced into a scum slot and are squirming desperately

[innocentvillager]

Wait, what?

yeah the vote on me is weird but like... this part specifically is like too blatant agenda-y for scum!worsty idk

Worstys posting kind of gave me pings when they started casting doubt on plus but then retunnelled him made him look pretty bad which I don’t think scum!worsty does

[innocentvillager]

wait actually do I want to hear worsty’s thoughts on my slot

froppy comes in and literally does nothing but vote me, saying they “ISO’s” me despite not reading the game, didn’t look like town!me (idk, I do whatever as town or scum maybe he’s thinking about a different game)

THAt was enough for worsty to switch into me when he’s studied my meta, played scum with me, being “reading me” the whole game..?

[innocentvillager]

also froppy who are you and what town!innocentvillager game are you referencing?

[innocentvillager]

nah I don’t think that’s AI

[innocentvillager]

IV do you think that anyone who omgus is scum?

yep

[innocentvillager]

also froppy who are you and what town!innocentvillager game are you referencing?

Do you intentionally play your town games differently? and I'm not going to out another account

i play however I feel like for town, I guess it can come off differently sometimes

i think I come off pretty differently for various towngames

For scum too kinda but less so I think but I’m not very aware of my meta in general

[innocentvillager]

IV what do you think about my theory?

what theory? That I’m scum? I disagree

[innocentvillager]

Froppy is probably scum

i think I am starting to believe bp town? ughh

explain

ehh mostly by PoE and your tunnelly entrance on me definitely doesn’t seem more likely to come from town!you

idk if it’s actually scum!indicative though, maybe not

[innocentvillager]

bp is gut, idk I feel like if I was scum keeping up this whole facade the way scum!BP would be so exhausting

I don’t want to townread him because it shrinks the poe

[innocentvillager]

Wait, what?

yeah the vote on me is weird but like... this part specifically is like too blatant agenda-y for scum!worsty idk

Worstys posting kind of gave me pings when they started casting doubt on plus but then retunnelled him made him look pretty bad which I don’t think scum!worsty does

He also said this is the mis-elim we need and I have no idea wtf that is supposed to mean. Like if its a joke its a stupid one.

like this annoyance seems genuine for example and I think town!mindset is more annoyed and scum!mindset is more “wtf scumslip?” Or something

[innocentvillager]

anyway I kind of want to hear your thoughts on like anything at all

[innocentvillager]

ehh bp could still be scum

[innocentvillager]

yeah idk I’m just gonna stop I don’t believe this push on me is all town motivated

[innocentvillager]

yeah idk I’m just gonna stop I don’t believe this push on me is all town motivated

But why is it not town motivated? I got a read on you and now I'm trying to push it...

idk, you 3 were all in my PoE before and you’re all on me now

it’s not impossible all 3 of you are town but it doesn’t...feel right lol

Like idk if I can really explain the difference between a town motivated and a scum motivated wagon inherently without pointing the individual scumminess of people

[innocentvillager]

I'm going to be blunt but I think this is just omgus, which is why I find it a weird spot because I'm not exactly sure how to approach the situation.

you talking about me? Omgus on you?

[innocentvillager]

hello, im getting spread too thin across games and RL and need to decrease time spent, sorry if it gets out of hand I can replace out if necessary

might still post too much anyway though because I can’t help myself might not

[innocentvillager]

are you saying it’s scummy for me to have defended Nep when there was no one was TRing her? why, whats the scum!me motivation there

[innocentvillager]

I gave my argument on Nep town and I think her reaction was really good

[innocentvillager]

tbh if Nep is scum she’s not doing a great job so I wouldn’t really expect scum!Nep to react in the way she did that quickly, by that alone I think she’s probtown

[innocentvillager]

you’re very bouncy and free floaty which makes me think you’re not pushing an agenda but I’m worried this is just survivalistic posturing

why froppy now

[innocentvillager]

you’re good worsty

i think I disagree not sure how strongly though

I did like her reaction to my vote, the first order reasoning being I don’t think scum reversal omguses that blatantly and quickly

it’s also like, imagine you’re scum getting wagoned in that spot kind of for no great reason? then the one townie who has kind of been on your side who you’ve been explicitly temporarily townread for a) not pushing b) solving or whatever (but with a noted intent to ‘watch’ me in particular, which I thought was interesting) suddenly for a no effort reason sheeps the herd

my first reaction as scum is not to omgus here, it’s to try to win back townie’s support and dig deeper into their process. there’s no real scum!motivation here that’s immediately obvious especially since I’m not even a coutnerwagon. town OTOH’s first reaction doesn’t care that Their one supporter just reversed 180, and it’s consistent with this whole intention of watching my content or whatever she was doing. aside from getting scumread for no reason all game it adds to the frustration. the omgus is not very well thought out, as SS was questioning correctly it’s not necessarily scummy for me to do what I did and there’s no obvious scum!motivation, but the only thing Nep was thinking about was whether or not she bought it as a real town process.

idk if I am confbiasing myself here but I think this gives me more confidence that Nep is town

[innocentvillager]

i don’t think she was objectively scummy? but I’m also really bad with scumhunting, I’m a much better town hunter I’d like to think

[innocentvillager]

iv - more town than scum bc good solving and he had the opportunity to move onto me and hasnt set himself up to do so but stay on him for more evidence of solving because the more of that there is the more difficult itll be to fake convincingly, if he keeps it up locktown
Four - i dont TR this and he might be buddying me
Sirius - dead slot i dont care about one game of meta
Zombie - null not enough to say for sure
Billy - townish above Zombie
Una - the stand hes taken is on sirius which is a correct option but not very readable. hope youre town
Norwee - scum
tw - our game together just finished and tws approach to me is consistent to the game we just played together. i dont want to locktown him for it but it makes sense that hed be disappointed and gutscumread me when you compare what happened that game to this one. If norwee is scum this is close to locktown. if norwee is town then idk cant help you with the duck
pooky - locktown this was saudade slot
SS - probtown and im trusting lilith also play
NM - close to locktown but if he keeps voting town dont let him get ro endgame
lilith - locktown and towns only hope if una isnt town

#day1reads

For those of you who demand explanations iv declaring my slot obvscum after the amount of gameposts hes made that have been reasoned TRs on me is just not town

I don't follow this in the slightest.

Ivs made several posts previously either disagreeing with SRs on me or having reasons to TR me but then calls me obvscum
Check his ISO its a good amount of his recent posting

sometimes obvscum is just scum

iv and norwee are now about equal for scum
Go there if i get elimmed today you owe me this
For those of you who demand explanations iv declaring my slot obvscum after the amount of gameposts hes made that have been reasoned TRs on me is just not town

Oh, I don't doubt that the behavior you're talking about occurred. I'm confused as to why you think it's scummy.

He was not behaving like someone who considered me obvscum in the slightest so i dont buy his reason at all

[innocentvillager]

guess I’m bad then

or I’m a genus

[innocentvillager]

yeah worsty I feel like we should just trust SS here and not discuss further

[innocentvillager]

actually what's bothering me is i think they read guilty.

3624 is kinda fine whatever
3625 comes back and overjustifies it
3627 is a de facto apology/withdrawal of the question for being leaded

i'm not sure i really expect town to just, ask a bad question then apologise and completely withdraw the dialogue? like what is the sincere thought which actually prompted the dialogue in the first place and why did it too die?

you have a point but the slot is doing a whole lot of little posting for someone who you’re accusing of “over justifying”

idk, I think the more likely scum!Froppy narrative is they are feeling lost content wise/don’t want to read a ton of pages, decided to push me because they thought I looked different than whatever towngame they’re thinking of (it’s possible they had this thought before replacing in having recognized my name too)

[innocentvillager]

it’s just like easy content to say “they’re playing similarly or differently from another game” and use that as justification

idk if that by itself is AI, maybe slightly scum leaning if I had to pick a side especially since I’ve seen scum do it recently

[innocentvillager]

worsty who is the team at this point? I’m kind of lost because bp + water + joyed seems reasonable but the PoE just feels too small

and you and bp have been townish lately

I get you are slightly sussed by four? But the whole claim thing was so like... planned out and deliberate, I feel like scum prefer to keep their options open from the beginning

[innocentvillager]

wow, nm at the bottom is pretty funny, interesting takes

a) what did you think of my town!nep argument
b) how did I jump from town to vote to top town

[innocentvillager]

wow, nm at the bottom is pretty funny, interesting takes

a) what did you think of my town!nep argument
b) how did I jump from town to vote to top town

a) our impasse is firmer and more important than I thought it was y'day so I'll decide later
b) I do what I want

...sure but like what in my posting/your thought process flip flopped your reads

[innocentvillager]

Three people and Sirius slot still doesn't feel townie, go figure.

yeah this

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: froppy I think
will vote joyed

It's tempting to switch votes but I'll hold off just for you.

??

[innocentvillager]

something smart

[innocentvillager]

not you

[innocentvillager]

why am i still alive?

yeah that’s a scumclaim

[innocentvillager]

I’m sorry plus I don’t think there’s anything you could’ve done

hope to see you around in future games this was a pretty unfortunate scumspot to replace into

[innocentvillager]

like I didn’t even really read your posting but you were scum so yeah

[innocentvillager]

wait why did you claim VT then if you were scum neap 2,3

[innocentvillager]

you actually just slipped and didn’t realize elements claimed the 2,3 then just went with it? lol

[innocentvillager]

Lol I guess next time watch what your pred claimed/ask your buddies before you claim yourself? Idk if it would’ve mattered this game specifically

Idk there wasn’t much about your posting specifically that pinged me

I mean you still have a shot at winning depending on your partners so that’s cool I guess

[innocentvillager]

also this should be obvious but there’s almost no way scum isn’t on the bus plus wagon

[innocentvillager]

yeah I do think froppy slot is scum still

[innocentvillager]

yeah ok fine bp is town

[innocentvillager]

true ninja

[innocentvillager]

ok so if we revisit the D1 poe, its now 1 conf!scum and 1 conf!town

That leaves me and froppy/water/sirius slot.

Anyone else with me that the teammate is another low activity, which explains plus' twilight posting or am I off on that?

idk I think the twilight posting from plus is NAI of partners because he’s probably posting in scum PT as well so it’s whatever

pedit: uhh kind of gut but if I had to try to articulate it? overall since (d2 I think?) I get the sense that you are genuinely curious about the interesting things that come up and trying to get at the slots and are putting out reasonable fresh opinions

i didn’t get the same vibe from your “kill me it’s D1 and I’ve claimed vt” posting but I suppose that can be NAI

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: froppy bye

[innocentvillager]

at a vca level it makes a bunch of sense for bussing scum to exist in {ss,lilith,iv} and like. vca is for nerds. but i am a nerd, so i really want you three sorted today.

how do you figure this worsty

[innocentvillager]

you really think SS bussed plus like that??

[innocentvillager]

i feel like those are just 3 townslots

if there is a deepwolf it'd be lilith, or lilith+SS, don't think it'd be SS alone, but don't think it's lilith+SS that would be too disgusting

pedit: yeah honestly i thought SS was going to die for that, lmao

[innocentvillager]

so is una is town yes? Or maybe not?

Im sorry I just don’t understand closed mechanic stuff

[innocentvillager]

I’ve been doing some thinking and bp is just town

he just is

no I will not explain

[innocentvillager]

I will look over your four case later lilith I probably shouldn’t be back and for thing with you rn

[innocentvillager]

I do think there is at least one scum in froppy four

[innocentvillager]

rl calls lol but I have no self control

[innocentvillager]

i feel like una is probably town having not understood most of the setup stuff? I’d have to reread it a bit, but I think I will get suspicious if the slot is still here tomorrow, and definitely if it’s still here D5

so I guess it’s froppy + four/worsty/Una/Lilith/SS in that order? which like kind of feels wrong that four is my top because idk if four+froppy play this way

[innocentvillager]

froppy what are your reads on the gamestate can you give us like your thoughts

[innocentvillager]

four, what is that pool?

[innocentvillager]

four, what is that pool?

I don't know exactly but I'm fairly confident the scum is within you/SS/lilith and an outside possibility of the worst at this point. But the fact is without revealing this I would have been able to let Scum perhaps remove one of those slots for me

.... so you decided to just answer the question from me, who is in your pool, anyway despite you not wanting to say it?

[innocentvillager]

here’s today’s elim, let’s just move onto the next day

Froppy

[innocentvillager]

so I guess it’s froppy + four/worsty/Una/Lilith/SS in that order?

You have me as more likely scum than Billy??

ya I think so...? maybe not? Idk you’re both v unlikely

[innocentvillager]

am I that unfunny

[innocentvillager]

I’ve solved it, it’s

not mafia and something smart

[innocentvillager]

Lilith and something smart

[innocentvillager]

billy pilgrim and not mafia

[innocentvillager]

Lilith and something smart

if this is the scumteam just kill me now

[innocentvillager]

innocentvillager and not mafia

[innocentvillager]

^that is an absolute power couple

we would never get suspected, due to our usernames

[innocentvillager]

I really do wonder if I should make an alt and just play like not mafia

maybe it would be less stressful

[innocentvillager]

gl venusaur's ass. you'll need it. ducky's comin' for u.

can someone artistic make a picture of this?

[innocentvillager]

i am not artistic but if no one volunteers... i suppose I will *do what must be done*...

[innocentvillager]

i don’t think froppy flips green here

[innocentvillager]

if they did... idk that would be pretty scary

[innocentvillager]

and yeah same

[innocentvillager]

again if you're town could you please resume being a 3 dimensional object? your posts feel like prodging, what's your solve?

and yeah same

[innocentvillager]

Part of me wants to omgus vote una because his push on me is transparently phayke.

transparently fake? Isn’t that just saying he’s transparently scum...?

[innocentvillager]

you’re too cryptic for me worsty

[innocentvillager]

oh maybe I get it? Maybe not? Whatever you don’t have to explain

[innocentvillager]

kind of general theory question maybe, what’s the difference between a bad push and a fake/scum push? I’m trying to understand how the two are distinguished

[innocentvillager]

like... “una is pushing me for bad reasons” vs “una is pushing me for reasons that seem fake and can come from scum”

i interpreted what I thought was a bad push by someone as probably a town push and was just dead wrong and it was completely superficial, but now thinking about it maybe I don’t really know the difference

i guess I just want to see how a better player thinks about this kind of thing

[innocentvillager]

alright I’ll hold my thought for now then

[innocentvillager]

I give intent. Peace

yeah i think this is just another scumclaim like Plus, scum are giving up

[innocentvillager]

worsty you think una is the partner?

im wondering if froppy has that same bus equity that you were talking about with JOYED

in a vacuum i feel like yes but like... there's only one scum left, so idk if scum can really afford to bus here, i would've expected them to try and fight hard to stay alive on first order thought

or maybe they're all just giving up lol bc there's too many obvtowns this game

or they're so deepwolfed like SS or lilith or BP

[innocentvillager]

you know iv is like, actually secretly very experienced, not a cute noob right
his cute noob persona is a thinly veiled attempt to hide his dark twisted mind

you think too highly of me i may be experienced but i am pretty bad

bad as town

even worse as scum

i come across as a noob not on purpose like im trying to deceive people or it being my playstyle but because im literally as bad as a noob

it's fine, maybe i won't be horrible one day but for now i just play for fun

[innocentvillager]

lol hi Shelly! did you replace into another scum slot

[innocentvillager]

The one slot that I was most baffled about upon reread was Billy though.
I do not see them being scum here, but at the same time...if I was forced to point at the specific moment where they "town-told" - gun to my head - I don't think I could come up with a post to quote.
It's more of a gradual evolution of everything?

This is now.like 3 slots independently that have concluded that im town just kinda like because. The first one felt a bit uncomfortable (ducky) number two (IV) felt a bit more uncomfortable, and now I see 3. So now I know that this is genuine from at least one of them and I legitimately don't know what to make of this. Like its not a progression. Its explicitly not a progression. So I dont think i can use their reads on my slot to read them at all which puts me wayyyyy out of my comfort zone.

yeah don't worry about it you're probably just town

[innocentvillager]

I'm fine launching Shelly into orbit unless something happens that redeems that slot.

I'm also sort of stuck on this day and this game is getting over my head and I'm feeling more useless.

yeah tbh i don't really care about the worsty/una lilith/four wars

[innocentvillager]

i rolled scum this game and I absolutely hate it

im like, not sure this would come from scum

nah I would totally lol-do this as scum

[innocentvillager]

yeah nothing replacement number 3 has done makes me want to unvote Sirius slot, shocking

[innocentvillager]

I have a feeling froppy + nondeepwolf is the solve

froppy + deepwolf wouldn’t explain why they all keep replacing out and being meh

this suggests like SS, Lilith are probably just town if shelly flips red

[innocentvillager]

nvm the first two replaced out before SS went after zombie so it’s not as strong as I thought

[innocentvillager]

does anyone scumread worsty other than una??

[innocentvillager]

I just have this feeling that I can't shake, and I believe Ducky was the one who wanted Pooky killed N1 - whether he dislikes my reasoning/speculation for the motives.

especially given worstys explanation after I don’t think the saud kill implicates him more or less

i think I get what you mean with the worsty paranoia but I think you’re overthinking it, i feel like you’re reaching a bit which does seem paranoia town!indicative rather than intentional scum!reaching

Like I don’t see the scum!una motivation to start randomly shouting about how worsty is scum

[innocentvillager]

I think the whole "shelly is more interested in looking for things that look bad than looking for things which are bad" doesn't really need me to say it but .. I just did

ok

[innocentvillager]

froppy + una almost makes sense but does scum!una take such a massive risk to save their partner by shouting about worsty?

[innocentvillager]

that’s why I’m curious who scumreads worsty because if not then the team above seems kind of silly or desperate

[innocentvillager]

yeah same I agree with your whole post so I don’t think una+froppy makes a lot of sense

pedit: I guess maybe, I feel like there were better targets thiugh

[innocentvillager]

idk I feel like if Shelly flips red we should just like... win unless it’s SS so i kind of just want to flip that slot and see what happens

Even you or worsty winning solo would be kind of a stretch I think

[innocentvillager]

i think I get what you mean with the worsty paranoia but I think you’re overthinking it, i feel like you’re reaching a bit which does seem paranoia town!indicative rather than intentional scum!reaching

OK, how about you go read everything I posted speculating about N1?
If you don't agree with it - fine.
But if you don't see/understand at all where I'm coming from, then you can join BuDucky I guess in the "UnaB sucks"-club.

um can you just tell me which posts you want me to read, don't really feel like going over the whole you vs. worsty thing again

as ive said i am bad with setup spec/closed stuff, somehow being on MS for 8 years hasn't helped me with that at all, maybe it's a good thing I'm trying to play more normals

[innocentvillager]

Worst, you seem to have experience with IV. Does he bus?

he's not like a

super serious tryhards player who has strong opinions about how scum should be played if I'm honest

so like maybe he'd bus, I've seen him bus when it was optimal and he was fine

i. have. strong. opinions. about. this. game. and. i. am. big. T.r.Y.h.A.r.D

[innocentvillager]

gah no replacement okay. can we flip shelly now?

yes we can!!

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: shellyc if that wasn’t hammer

[innocentvillager]

where is slowsuka

i need to get back to my scum pt

[innocentvillager]

Yeah this is kind of the nightmare scenario I didn’t want to believe.

[innocentvillager]

unless the team is four/nm I don’t know

[innocentvillager]

if four is town there are two scum in {bp, una, worsty, Lilith} and that is terrifying because I townread all of them

[innocentvillager]

vt here

[innocentvillager]

worsty on first glance it just looks like insufficient data. But if I had to guess, four is not a comfortable scum player. He barely posted anything in his two scum games and the second one where he replaced in all none of his posts were game-related or solving. He seems like the kind of scum saudade would be able to catch with his deflection tell. In the town games he posted way more.

The meta alone makes me leannnnn town... as baseline, mostly because he’s obviously doing stuff this game.

Is there anything else you wanted to look for or wanted opinions on?

[innocentvillager]

I really fucking hope four isn’t town here

[innocentvillager]

yeah if you’re town you should be pretty terrified

I imagine what’s going to happen is we’re going to flip four today. If it flips scum, maybe all is well, but if he flips town that’s a literal nightmare

[innocentvillager]

I still find it so hard to believe that four comes out as scum and clears his partner lavar manos. It’s kind of super wifom suicide play as scum that I wouldn’t expect from an uncomfortble scum plauer

-pedit okay let me look at your questions.

[innocentvillager]

he has had a guilty conscience at one point in this game. based on your skimming of his personality, why is that, and what does it say about his alignment?

do you think his push on shelly is consistent with his town tone?

can you quote where the guilty conscience thing is?

sorry I’m just worried too, especially if you agree on four/nm not being the solve. I have to get going in a bit so I may have to respond tomorrow about the shelly thing and keep iso his towngames . I also don’t want my fear of four being town to color how I read the slot as much so there’s that too

[innocentvillager]

there is also something very, very concerning about SS' flip.

curious about this whenever you care to share it.

[innocentvillager]

that’s fair. that’s a bit why I’ve been suspecting four, and to a lesser extent you, after I started townreading duck. I think someone said that four is an alt, and I think you’re capable as well.

I said I'm an alt.

The fact is, I'm an alt of a dumb player who doesn't bother to look for crumbs, which I know because I am he.

Just being an alt doesn't make me smart, or good. I use alts to hide from the people who know I'm not good or smart.

It is going to lead to the same reaction no matter what I say, so I'm voluntarily saving my time to allow you to just say your reactions without my need to feed into your preset reactions.

Fuck it, if you won't listen to me and eliminate the obvious Scum slot that just misread the Lavar slot. You can have the IC NM.

VOTE: myself

NM is literally going to self reveal as IC so like, hang the scum slot tomorrow. I'll buy the PRs another night of surviving

i don’t have as much time as I would’ve liked but I did go through four’s iso a bit

worsty are you referring to these quotes as the “guilty conscience”? I don’t think we’re syncing exactly, idk if I would call this guilty conscience as much as frustration AtE

gth this is NAI but the more I look at this it feels like town frustration?

Idk, I feel like four is... just town, I’ve kind of always felt it since the claim and forgot why exactly at some point but relooking him kind of made me remember some of the things I thought were unlikely to be in his scumrange and the alt switch kind of makes the evidence lean more that way (granted scum!four coulddddd have this motive in mind when switching to his main when under fire)

I guess it’s just hard to believe that scum!four plays a game of this caliber after his main experience with scum is those two games where he couldn’t do anything and deflected useless content. I mean look at what scum!four has done this game:

-somehow decided pregame that he would go for this long ass gambit where he immediately claims informed on some random townslot, or his buddy
-crumb the Lavar read at the beginning
-crumb the claim from the very beginning consistently with the plan to out it the moment a PR claimed
-Deliberately act in a self sacrificing manner as pure wifom, despite knowing that he’d be heavily suspected in late game
-hard push froppy town slot for multiple days and bet his own elim on it when the slot was literally going down anyway, also as pure wifom
-self voting then immediately voting someone else
-that “I’m a dumb player not capable like you think, Imma silently switch over to my alt to prove that I’m bad” weird thing with Lilith (which I TR, I obviously know what it’s like lately to feel bad about my ability to play and find scum and just go down as a liability, also related to why I TR bp)

All of this despite having little to no experience as scum with two low content meh scum games and a bunch of engaged towngames? I could see others players going for this approach as scum, but I would’ve expected scum!four to try increasing his scumrange “incrementally”, not like go balls deep with this massive wifom strategy while still maintaining more engagement than he is comfortable with as scum. If this is scum!four, and worsty assuming you linked his only two scum games, then... wow

I’ll be back tomorrow but I’m really not happy about this

[innocentvillager]

like it is POSSIBLE but Jesus ducking christ {bp, worsty, Lilith, una} two scum is possible

[innocentvillager]

yeah imma come back to this, I do have a tendency to townread these kinds of big moves especially coming from a slot with probably minimal scumrange. But like maybe I’m just right on four and it’s just time to sort the deepwolfs

[innocentvillager]

i'm flabbergasted that you, in all your reading, don't seem to have embraced how transparent it is that IV is buddying me

i wouldn’t exactly call it that but...

[innocentvillager]

I mean there are a lot of reasons why I’m interacting with you a lot this game , surely you can think of a lot of them?

[innocentvillager]

like literally una has been fosing you since d3 with a side of me as the buddying wingman at some point thrown in there

but he hasn’t like... interacted with me at all and only with you

[innocentvillager]

una/worsty Probably not
worsty/Lilith
Lilith/una
Lilith/BP unlikely (?)
Bp/una
Bp/worsty

assumes four is town

I’ll fill in the blanks when I have time, think if four is town the team is one of these 4

[innocentvillager]

una who is scum when I flip green

[innocentvillager]

Can everyone say who they would unequivocally keep out of a 3 person poe? Like no chance in hell you'd allow this person to be in a 3 person poe.

yeah I honestly have no idea at this point

[innocentvillager]

D1!duck: "iv is so town"
D2!duck, when other people are like "what's towny about iv": "oh I don't remember" *votes froppy, who voted iv*
D3!duck, when someone else pointed out that iv could be scum: "oh yeah iv's associatives with zombie are hot garbage"
D4!duck, when other people are now wanting to eliminate iv: "but no one is resisting so he can't be scum!" (except duck is in fact resisting by saying that)


duck/iv team??????????????????????????????????????????????

You’re wrong but this did kind of remind me on how much worsty has flip flopped on me despite me being a fairly easy read for him? Idk, could just be a function of the PoE and how well the deep wolves are playing but it’s still a little weird

[innocentvillager]

I mean everyone alive is basically a deepwolf candidate, as we feared D1 it looks like scum penetrated some of the consensus townreads

[innocentvillager]

I thought it was pretty obvious it was a guilty, that’s why I voted there and didn’t speculate

[innocentvillager]

what does that even mean...? Around?

[innocentvillager]

Idk if it’s just lately if it’s a function of trying to play closed non newbie stuff but I have been really lost lately in general and waffly

I’m trying to change my playstyle and working on testing different approaches, I can go into detail about it but I don’t think that would be the most productive thing rn

[innocentvillager]

wasn't iv's scumgame, like, kinda good?

Lmao where did you hear that <3

I feel like my scumgame < towngame < 95% of MS’s game still just because I can’t like... get past the fact that I know the answer as scum mentally, but I’d like to play mor escumgame and expand my horizons

[innocentvillager]

Okay here’s my amazing readslist for this amazing gamestate

{innocentvillager}
{Not Mafia}
{Lilith, worsty, una, bp, four}

[innocentvillager]

curious how you get me/worsty? I don’t think you really explain this read much

[innocentvillager]

I think ditching it to go for my mis-elim when there are zero (0) votes

um I’m not going for your elim...?

[innocentvillager]

His meta is w/e, his greatest towntell is perplexed sass when confronted by nonsense which he has none of

interesting

But I don’t feel like the meta is whatever? I feel like if those were the only two scum games he’s played as I’ve said it’s unlikely for scum!him to be doing whatever the fuck he’s doing here

[innocentvillager]

this crossed my mind and it's sadly false

very sadly

[innocentvillager]

I don't think scum have an easy time pretending to give a fuck about this phase.

Hmm This is the tell I used in my one good game ever on this site to catch the whole scumteam, very very different situation but maybe it applies somewhat here?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: duck

Lillith pointing out the way duck flopped on Zombie while saying he thought S_S's was a guilty i think thats it. If not, I think im gonna go IV then Lillith.

You're either the most adorable townie (who's admittedly a bit lost, right?), or you are a masterful actor, a true killer among killers and a master of disguises.

yeah idk if this is like either or...

[innocentvillager]

oops only trying to respond to una not Billy’s post

[innocentvillager]

Four do you not think worsty has been towny this game? Why don’t you townread him like, at all

[innocentvillager]

uh, no offense iv

none taken. I’m not sure what happened but I feel like my play is getting worse. Either that or I’m sinking slowly into the despair of realizing that I have historically been too confident with reads and that opinions are usually no better than a coin flip. I’ve probably been over adjusting and just been way too paranoid lately and should be more confident but I kinda tried that somewhat this game and look where we are

at the same time I don’t feel like that bad? I think scum genuinely are just playing really well, and I feel like the consensus has generally been TRing most of the players as well

@worsty about the “scum don’t give a shit about this phase” tell. You brought it up originally so I was kind of piggybacking off of that. I guess for more brief context, in the game I’m talking about the setup was such that town loses if parity is reached or a timer ends. When scum got super close to winning and the timer was hilariously low they stopped giving a shit because they had deepwolfed themselves early, but the consequence of this was suddenly it became somewhat obvious who they were because town was freaking out.

So they are very different situations and I was just saying maybeeee there’s some relevance given that you independently thought of it. But now thinking about it I don’t think anyone is safe from elimination, there’s no analogous “death timer” and if scum is on the chopping block that could be a huge problem to go 1v4 tomorrow, which makes the tell a little less useful imo, since there is still urgency for scum to avoid their elim at all costs

[innocentvillager]

i'm not sure scum!IV is incentivised to double down on his shitty lack of reads.

this is probably true but now that you’ve said that I’m definitely going to try this in my next scumgame with a diff plist, but yeah having too many townreads and no scumreads is probably town!indicative at least historically for me

[innocentvillager]

If I were scum in this gamestate, as any player’s current standing I would be trying to

-towntell, avoid getting eliminated today and just survive to F5
-push wagons away from partner, but subtlely

[innocentvillager]

He's a good player, I would hope better than he was a few years back at this point. I just don't see his reads being this unsure in a town game. I don't think he flip flops like this as town. Call it a hunch.

The flip flop is scum slot.

now this is interesting and I see where the point of view comes from and initially I do find it weird for like, my slot in particular? But it’s hard to genuinely scumread it because scum!worsty is probably more likely to just commit to a stance on me, whereas I can see town!worsty more likely to be paranoid of me with how many towny-looking slots there are in the game, again maybe the conclusion I Am left with here is that worsty isn’t as good at reading me as I initially thought. I don’t think the flip flops on me and you, slots that he feels historically he is good at reading, is a good look at all for worsty and definitely not what scum!him directly tries to accomplish with this stance? Which actually makes me lean town on the flipping, there is some chance that this is opportunistic or noisy posturing to make us go “oh look, he’s flip flopping again, whatever”

which makes me go back to, okay, what does scum do in this gamestate, maybe fmpov this is what I would/wouldn’t do as scum but maybe other slots would take approach why? maybe I’ll go through each player assuming they are scum and estimating potential distributions of their player-specific win vectors and/or see if their current style could adhere to that. But idk how feasible or accurate that will be

[innocentvillager]

scum!worsty is probably more likely to just commit to a stance on me, whereas I can see town!worsty more likely to be paranoid of me with how many towny-looking slots there are in the game, again maybe the conclusion I Am left with here is that worsty isn’t as good at reading me as I initially thought. I don’t think the flip flops on me and you, slots that he feels historically he is good at reading, is a good look at all for worsty and definitely not what scum!him directly tries to accomplish with this stance?

@four, how do you feel about this argument. Me and you are sort of interchangeable

do you think scum!worsty is fine tanking his image in the thread by flip flopping around on slots like us?

[innocentvillager]

It's real weird that you guys are defending each other, at the very least.

This dynamic really makes me uneasy.

okay, so what does this unease point to? me/worsty scumteam defending each other?

[innocentvillager]

I don't get the genuine feeling that worst is actually unsure of what he's saying at any one time, though, the wishy washy nature comes later, when he seems to be like "Well, that isn't sticking so well"

So you think the waffle pushing is opportunistic to see what sticks? are there specific pushes that come to mind

[innocentvillager]

I’ve never played with anyone that flip flopped their reads every like 2 rl days but in my experience the scummy wishy washyness tends to be a towntell for most people

most people

[innocentvillager]

the progressions from worsty are believable and the trajectories indicate a solving mindset, in broad terms. I don’t have experience with scum!worsty (the cult one was just weird I don’t really count that) so Im not sold on this read but that’s where my heads at aorn.

[innocentvillager]

and I feel like the most efficient win vectors for scum!worsty is not what he’s doing rn with all the flip flopping.

[innocentvillager]

Like, I think the crux of our current disagreement on worsty is just that you think he is scummy for the same reason I find him towny

[innocentvillager]

I’m trying to figure out which of my townreads are wrong because I have too many, and maybe I’m wrong on worsty so I’m trying to get a better sense of why you guys don’t believe worsty is town taking into consideration some reasons I TR him

It is helpful to know that you think scum!worsty does suboptimal things, and that weakens my TR a bit

[innocentvillager]

I don't need any more thoughts, you've all heard me, you've all flip flopped on every little thing. I'm glad to be out of this.

I don't track town victories, I don't plan on returning post game or even commenting in dead thread.

VOTE: Manwithnoname

Tomorrow is 100% going to be worst, lilith, BP, Una, IV spend the fucking night phase actually reading them and figuring out who scum team is. Then lose or whatever, I really don't care.

Actually, I might post in dead thread to chat with NM after he's killed in the night phase. Ducko and I will surely talk elsewhere.

Okay so I wasn’t here for it but this post made you two want to end the day?? (Worsty, una)

Like does this actually come from scum!four? Maybe just hindsight biased but this feels like a townspew

[innocentvillager]

I'm a bit sad to hear that this is what MWNN feels..
And if this is AtE, Ducky was once more jumping off the lynch..

VOTE: MWNN - is this the hammer?

??? “BuDucky-IV” is your only read this game and you decided to compromise here with days left to go??

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: una

I'M IN ONE OF THESE UNIVERSES AND I HATE IT

MWNN just look me in the eyes and tell me if you're scum
only, don't
but
do

don't

VOTE: mwnn

I guess this isn’t... as bad I think

well one of you two is almost certainly scum unless it’s somehow billy/Lilith which would be kind of strange

[innocentvillager]

una, you’ve been an outed rolestopper for like 3 days

you have one solve and it’s me/worsty

Has it never occurred to you that maybe you’re like, wrong? You’re so tunneled here you’re not even reconsidering/suspicious?

[innocentvillager]

i'll laugh if like, scum are gearing to quickhammer and they're frantically trying to coordinate something in the scum pt lmao

i had to

but if neither of you are scum we’re done anyway so who cares

[innocentvillager]

the nk is probably like whatever

anyone could’ve killed the one conftown

Are there teams that would’ve been more likely to choose an alternative? idk at first glance

[innocentvillager]

if worsty and I are scum we would’ve probably just killed una, it’s like his only read and he’s a PR

Other than that probably killing NM seems like the most reasonable play for any other team, bc una is not conftown

[innocentvillager]

are you saying una isn’t a rolestopper because he rolestopped NM and NM died? Una’s claiming he was roleblocked if so

If that’s not it not sure what you’re getting at

[innocentvillager]

interesting take, but like, wifom is a thing?

[innocentvillager]

I’ll think about what you said more later

I do worry that you/una were kind of setting up for this going against town!worsty?

as far as teams there aren’t very many options

Una/billy
Una/Lilith
Worsty/una - v unlikely
Worsty/billy
Worsty/Lilith

if worsty is town I kind of just think you/una is the team, he’s very confident on Lilith town even in this situation that I would trust, so I don’t think una/Lilith is likely

if una is town then I’m not sure who between you and Lilith is the partner assuming it’s not una (una would probably get nightkilled). As I’ve said I’m torn because I’ve been townreading both of you fairly solidly, but it’s pretty clear one of you is scum (honestly, really good play). I’m not sure if scum!you goes for the bus scum!worsty tactic but it’s possible to set yourself up against me in f3? Idk, im not feeling great about any of this. Specifically I think you’re scum by PoE most likely but I like... townread you this game

[innocentvillager]

I'm a bit sad to hear that this is what MWNN feels..
And if this is AtE, Ducky was once more jumping off the lynch..

VOTE: MWNN - is this the hammer?

??? “BuDucky-IV” is your only read this game and you decided to compromise here with days left to go??

yeah I think I still hate this hammer

can people give their opinions on it.

[innocentvillager]

billy, Lilith, who is the team. One of three is almost certainly scum sooo

[innocentvillager]

angery duck reaccs only

[innocentvillager]

oh worsty how I wish we were scumbuddies this game

[innocentvillager]

billy can you give your thoughts on the mwnn hammer.

[innocentvillager]

@lilith I know you're busy but you don't have to ~effort for now. If you could just give brief thoughts that would be helpful, if not no worries obviously RL is more important

[innocentvillager]

Um I'm not gonna vote right now...? What's your point

[innocentvillager]

I've said the solves I'm considering, una/billy, worsty/lilith, worsty/billy, obviously I think una is probably scum out of you two

we have like 9 more RL days to do this, it'd be nice to get some of her brief thoughts before the weekend to factor in. One of billy and lilith is scum and even if we get today right there's still f3 to figure out. so there's literally like 0 reason to rush this??