Mini Normal 2175 | The End |

[Battle Mage]

GeorgeBailey has requested replacement. They have been replaced by Battle Mage. Please welcome them!

honey i'm home

[Battle Mage]

hi battle mage!! you town?

hi Datisi! and yup thankfully! i was a bit worried when i saw the votecount

[Battle Mage]

what's the long and short of it? how did we end up 28 pages deep with no flip? any claims etc?

[Battle Mage]

in the meantime i shall venture bravely into the unknown

VOTE: innocent villager

[Battle Mage]

Official Vote Count

Datisi

(2): innocentvillager, Datisi

innocentvillager

(2): Staarling, Battle Mage

Battle Mage

(2): Gypyx, Iconeum

shellyc

(1): Ydrasse

Not Voting

(2): MiniMegabyte, shellyc

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-11-03 20:10:00)

lol does Datisi have a thing with self-voting in this game or what? i saw he did it earlier too.

[Battle Mage]

what's the long and short of it? how did we end up 28 pages deep with no flip? any claims etc?

no claims so far, we barely had wagons go to L-2

there's been some pushing between me and shelly and iv, i think at least one of them is scum, skim the past 3-4 pages on why
ico is very town
i have a vague townlean on your slot (please don't make me regret it)

uhh nothing really memorable has actually happened so far

my initial take was Shelly could be scum here - way too eager in the early pages - but nothing solid. we do only have 1.5 days until deadline so probably time to make something happen.

pedit: oooh
may i ask why?

you can ask why, but i wont tell you yet.

[Battle Mage]

Datisi (2): innocentvillager, Datisi

@mod i'm not self voting pls stop

pedit: i haven't self-voted once in this entire game, the vote counter is counting my "vote: iv" as a self vote, and the mod didn't like the solution is presented to him (cough 670)

it doesnt fucking work i did it lol pls make a post that contains vote:iv

i'd laugh so hard if you were scum with IV and the votecount was continually outting you

[Battle Mage]

im already enjoying this game

[Battle Mage]

ill UNVOTE:

VOTE: innocent villager

just to fix the vote order

[Battle Mage]

my initial take was Shelly could be scum here - way too eager in the early pages - but nothing solid. we do only have 1.5 days until deadline so probably time to make something happen.

voting my one scumread and thinking the other one is scum too, ohh i have good feelings for this game

what can i say? i'm an excellent player and everyone loves me.

[Battle Mage]

why is Ico-town voting for me??

[Battle Mage]

looks like Gypyx vote on me is just RVS

[Battle Mage]

man i am not overwhelmed with Ico's iso...so much effort on tunnelling my slot. *shakes head*

[Battle Mage]

daddy's home

[Battle Mage]

BM, i'm about to pass out, ya need anything to make yourself at home here before i do that?

nope me too buddy, thanks for the welcome and see ya tomorrow!

[Battle Mage]

What does the daddy thing mean?

if you're a dad, you'll know...

yeaaaaah mr. bailey’s presence being meager combined with these weird mentions here and there feels off to me but like, i have no read on gb so it’s unfair to run with that until he’s more active

don't worry, i'm on the case!

[Battle Mage]

I see we are still a couple heads down so far

where's Mini and the Bailey?

Im here just didnt realise the game started lol.
I feel like you are town and from my understanding you're fairly new to this?

holy fuck i'm getting wrecked

I howled with laughter.

[Battle Mage]

Ico playing that newbtown card again huh?

[Battle Mage]

i wasn't referring to how high effort ydra was between my posts
- ydrasse being really solvey d1 with good tone as well feels like her towngame
- me: ok this is probtown but can ydrascum do that?
- me goes check ydrascum games
- me concludes no.

this game is more efforty for ydrasse compared to previous scumgames? i miiiight go check out boardgames if necessary later

having played on a scumteam with Ydrasse before, I'd be inclined to agree with Shelly.

[Battle Mage]

Moderated by Sirius9121, backed up by Pookythemagicalbear

some serious backup! hi Pooky!

[Battle Mage]

will vote today: gypyx, BM, mini?

gypyx/BM is a thing tbh, gypyx pushing BM but not voting in critical points is pretty telling

lol it's not a thing tbh as I'm town *shrug*

[Battle Mage]

i thought that gypyx/shellyc could be a thing because gypyx didn't mention you in their townreads, but is also unwilling to simply put you at E-1 with only a day left on the clock and with gypyx's townread pushing you

i am also a bit wary of Gypyx hesitation, although don't think it implies Gypyx/Shelly is a thing.

[Battle Mage]

also Gypyx is still voting me despite me being a top townread lol

[Battle Mage]

Ydrasse town, at least 1 town in Ico-Datisi...the Shelly wagon looks ok.

[Battle Mage]

you're not even voting Gypyx?

[Battle Mage]

damnit!! i was just reading the VC - it's a novelty to get an up to date VC these days... lol

[Battle Mage]

you should claim though, I'll be back later

[Battle Mage]

you should claim though, I'll be back later

not without a proper L-1 they're not

you should claim though, I'll be back later

why not put her on L-1 if you want her to claim?

pedit: lel

i'm not precious about people only claiming at L-1 - it looked pretty inevitable to me that Shelly was getting run up to L-1 if she didn't claim.

[Battle Mage]

damnit!! i was just reading the VC - it's a novelty to get an up to date VC these days... lol

this better be a joke...

latest vote count and shellyc's vote change is literally on the same page

[Battle Mage]

the gunsmith requires BM to vote gypyx now

can you read that iso and tell me what you think at least

im meant to be at work lol

i'll vote gypyx but you better be checking me tonight! i need some of that sweet conftown status

VOTE: gypyx

[Battle Mage]

like, those solves are so out of the blue i don't really see them coming from scum?

what if gypyx was scum with say, BM, and didn't catchup with the game and didn't have partner to tell them about the game

the solves seem like 1 minute skimwork

lol please stop throwing me into your solves for no reason, it instantly makes me disengaged.

[Battle Mage]

Maf doctor might be a thing also, keep in mind

true, a clean gunsmith result isn't a complete clear. although it's a 9 player game, so i'd guess mafia doc is fairly unlikely. there are other options though probably.

[Battle Mage]

why not minimegabyte again?

[Battle Mage]

You probably just read somewhere that 'straaling' is a uni townread, so you stick to that

You townread Datisi, but are unwilling to vote shellyc and don't see the scumpart in shellyc who shitpushed your number 2 townread?

GB read is fine or whatever

You also don't wanna Exe-1 someone you don't townread (you just gave a top 3 townread, shellyc not in it), who just tried to push one of your main townreads for crap reasons, and retracted everything faster then I could push it, with deadline this close because

'oh no I don't wanna put someone on l-1' is just terrible

I was townreading staarling since pretty early into the game, apparently i didn't post that so you'll just have to take my word for it

And for the rest of the post i was like around half of my catchup, so of course i wasn't aware for your point around datisi and of course i'm not putting shelly at exe-1

Anyways as BM pointed out UNVOTE: finishing this read

Pedit : bruh ok, i'll premtively claim too, i'm VT

ah i hadnt seen this, nice claim. VOTE: minimegabyte

[Battle Mage]

like, those solves are so out of the blue i don't really see them coming from scum?

what if gypyx was scum with say, BM, and didn't catchup with the game and didn't have partner to tell them about the game

the solves seem like 1 minute skimwork

lol please stop throwing me into your solves for no reason, it instantly makes me disengaged.

me the legendary gunsmith
protective
VTs

mafia doctor
mafia goon

reasonable actually
is bm just hard claiming scum doc here

nah, i just wanna get conftowned because i'm more liable to get dayflipped when i rep in. as noted, i recognise it isn't actual conftown, but depends entirely on what else flips (i.e. if we flip a scum RB or something, less likely to have a scum doctor). but setup spec not my forte. it's WIFOM I guess, but I'm not drawing that much attention to myself as scum doc lol.

[Battle Mage]

i buy the shelly claim based on her over-enthusiastic early play - accords with the zeal of a town PR in a small game.

[Battle Mage]

+1 to ico, two claims are probably enough for the day, what's the play with running up a third one?

*shrug* i instinctively bought the claim. it doesnt feel like this should be a hard game really.

[Battle Mage]

i guess we can look at minimegabyte tomorrow - it feels like a good amount of sensible consensus here. im not convinced on the gypyx wagon though - and i'm an expert on reading Gypyx.

VOTE: Gypyx

[Battle Mage]

and i'm an expert on reading Gypyx.

i'll have you know i am 1 for 1 in catching scumpyx

what's your record

2 for 2 at least - you can be an apprentice i guess, unless you're right here.

[Battle Mage]

you got thoughts on mini? she's definitely on my list to look into tomorrow

yeah i got some thoughts but nothing hot and heavy

[Battle Mage]

whats the rules for reading gypyx and why are you joining despite not being convinced

from what i remember, gypyx obvscums as scum, i didnt see that here. i'm reasonably happy we have a good townblock here and should win this game by process of elimination, so i'm fairly easygoing today.

[Battle Mage]

nice stats

thanks!

[Battle Mage]

whats the rules for reading gypyx and why are you joining despite not being convinced

from what i remember, gypyx obvscums as scum, i didnt see that here. i'm reasonably happy we have a good townblock here and should win this game by process of elimination, so i'm fairly easygoing today.

i'm also considerably happy with the townblock but eh

you ain't in it

hey im doing my best, i asked for a cop investigation as an easy solve lol

[Battle Mage]

did a quick re-read of IV. given IV loves to distance hard, most likely partners would be Datisi or Gypyx. So a Gypyx scumflip maybe means look at IV before Mini.

[Battle Mage]

well you hard claimed scum doc

i think they are cleared by gunsmiths?

no?

lol

[Battle Mage]

excellent!

[Battle Mage]

maybe you can apply for TownBlock tomorrow

as the Gunsmith I propose to reject BM's application if he doesn't obvtown soon

Pfft I reserve the right to reject your Gunsmith claim if you don't deliver results.

[Battle Mage]

tinfoil hat solve: mini/gypyx/BM contains all 2 scum

I doubt it honesrly, like if it is congrats but things are rarely this simple

lol from your perspective it would literally have to be me and Mini? i'd love to see someone case that

also Shelly, you gotta give up these solves with me in them. *shakes head*

[Battle Mage]

Bm's flip flopping is kinda weird though, i agree that it's worth keeping an eye on

ah come on, you know im capable of flip-flopping as town.

[Battle Mage]

maybe you can apply for TownBlock tomorrow

as the Gunsmith I propose to reject BM's application if he doesn't obvtown soon

shhh, i'm just playing along with scumBM here so they don't fearkill me over you

every time you call me scum...it cuts like daggers to the heart.

[Battle Mage]

if Gypyx flips town, Shelly's claim is legit, and I buy Staarling as town (which I slightly do), that leaves 2 scum in:

Iconeum
Datisi
MiniMegabyte
innocentvillager

which probably means the play should be Mini given I don't think Ico is scum with Datisi or IV.

If we flip Mini and are wrong, that clears Ico, and means the solve is Datisi-IV.

Maybe. Of course, if Gypyx flips scum, that probably implicates IV the most, so I'd go there first, although if we hit scum today I think we ought to be home and dry.

It's a small game though, so not much margin for error. Gypyx isn't exactly fighting hard for survival.

[Battle Mage]

oh I missed Ydrasse out above, but I'm just assuming Ydrasse town is a lock.

[Battle Mage]

if Shelly is a gunsmith of course, she could pull a good result tonight with quite a small pool to play with. I think if we flip town today, there's a case for massclaiming tomorrow to try and avoid 2 consecutive days of ExLo.

[Battle Mage]

it's possible we no-elim today if there isn't a hammer before deadline, which worsens the position significantly.

[Battle Mage]

if Gypyx flips town, Shelly's claim is legit

How is my alignement linked to shelly?

lol nice selective quoting. that was part of a list of assumptions - none of which relied on each other. I'm feeling better about your flip now.

[Battle Mage]

if you were town here Gypyx, I don't understand why you didn't put up more of a fight

[Battle Mage]

if Gypyx flips town, Shelly's claim is legit

How is my alignement linked to shelly?

lol nice selective quoting. that was part of a list of assumptions - none of which relied on each other. I'm feeling better about your flip now.

I still don't get that assumption, like why not just "shelly's claim is legit" if that's not linked?

go back and look at my original post. did you think the other assumption you removed was linked too? You're straw-manning me here. It was a list of unrelated assumptions - on the face of it, I don't believe you could legitimately misinterpret it as you have done.

[Battle Mage]

if you were town here Gypyx, I don't understand why you didn't put up more of a fight

I don't think i can sway the votes out of me, and even less on my scumreads

who are your scumreads again?

[Battle Mage]

i’ll hammer before deadline.

gypyx should probably claim?

im in favour of a hammer now, to get a result and keep the game moving if we are already decided on the flip.

[Battle Mage]

if you were town here Gypyx, I don't understand why you didn't put up more of a fight

I don't think i can sway the votes out of me, and even less on my scumreads

who are your scumreads again?

Ico and one of iv / ydrasse

i dont

think

that's the solve. ydrasse probably town. Ico and IV unlikely to be scum together because that isn't IV's normal style.

[Battle Mage]

why so sure on Ico anyway?

[Battle Mage]

why did georgebailey leave the game? does anyone know if he likes playing as mafia or townie?

i can tell you what he was, if that helps?

[Battle Mage]

why so sure on Ico anyway?

Gut
Interactions with datisi
Push on shelly

Gtg

the fact he pushed shelly, or the way he pushed shelly? and what about the interactions with datisi? gimme some detail

[Battle Mage]

i think Gypyx is a townie cuz he's fine with dying and doesn't care, i think mafia would care more. if you're a townie, you should care more than this though!!

i have some bad feelings from you, battle mage :c

bad feelings from me? how so?

[Battle Mage]

i cant help but feel if GB had stayed in, we'd have just flipped MiniMegabyte and won the game lol

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

[Battle Mage]

I want to hear what Staarling has to say too, and Gypyx you can go

[Battle Mage]

this is the sort of game where if scum includes any 2 of Shelly-Datisi-Iconeum, town is screwed because they will steamroll the days. on the flipside, if they are all town, it should be a good bet for a win.

[Battle Mage]

if you were town here Gypyx, I don't understand why you didn't put up more of a fight

doesn't this make more sense from Gypyx if he's just a vanilla townie? i think he'd put up more of a fight if he was a powerful role or mafia..

well he clearly isnt a powerful town role as he claimed vanilla. I think scum are as liable to give-up tbh, although I wasn't making an assertion about his alignment in the post above, so you've inferred that yourself. it would depend on who the partner is and the gamestate though.

keen to get your general thoughts on me!

[Battle Mage]

@Ydrasse: your triangle is almost like mine! we both have almost straight line graphs :>

@Battle Mage: hmmm i dunno. i was confused by post 928 as well because it seems

like an innocent mistake Gypyx made even if he is mafia

so why would it make you more confident

i didn't assume it was an innocent mistake, no. It could have been, but the fact is he cut out a key part of the sentence and then used this botched statement to reach a conclusion which:

A. Didn't make sense and was clearly not the most likely explanation for what I meant.
B. Made me look bad i.e. shading me.

Not that it would really benefit him to do that if he was scum I guess, given he has clearly accepted he is dying. So no, overall I suppose I'm not convinced he's scum, but I didn't like the seemingly intentional misrep.

I'm going to go for a soul-read though and VOTE: Staarling. The white-knighting of Gypyx screams informed-scum distancing from an inevitable townflip, and the bold above feels like a slip to get the alignment the wrong way around.

[Battle Mage]

also I just feel like it wouldve made more sense to be concerned about the fact I'm fundamentally voting Gypyx whilst not being overly convinced he's scum, rather than critiquing some vague justification after the event. Like, it's not hard to explain why you might think I was scum, but you chose an odd justification in my view.

[Battle Mage]

also you havent done anything to defend Gypyx - you've shown up at a point where he is seemingly certain to be elimmed, to get some nominal towncred if he flips green, but without fighting hard to derail anything.

It feels like everyone's spirits have been crushed by the 39 pages so far...

[Battle Mage]

we dont have time or momentum to actually do it, but let it be noted I am now scumreading Staarling, and Shelly please stick her back in your gunsmith pool.

VOTE: Gypyx

[Battle Mage]

i really don't like Battle Mage now

yeah i saw you were paving the way for this tomorrow anyway. crumbing in some suspicion of me to set up a mis-elim off the back of Gypyx. Let's battle!

[Battle Mage]

@battle mage: i'm suspicious of you because you're one of the people voting for Gypyx who i think is a townie but i think i dislike your reasons the most. i think you're making them up

This is one of my issues with your assessment of me. You think Gypyx is probably town, as do I. But despite my read, I'm voting him. So surely you should be suspicious of me for that?

But no, instead you try to look like you're scumhunting by attempting to delve into trivialities of my assessment of one of Gypyx's posts - which frankly is neither here nor there.

I could understand you suspecting me, but you've jumped over the patently obvious reason, and your actual reason isn't credible. I've challenged you on this, and you've declined to respond. If you were really suspicious of everyone voting Gypyx, I think you would have said so, or at least done more to stop him being elimmed. But I figure if you're scum you'd be worried about alienating too many people?

[Battle Mage]

i agree that like, if gypyx is scum here, the plan was to act as anti-survivalistically as possible, and failing that then giving up like this *probably* means the scumteam ain't in the best position anyway and the game is Probably Easy

BM, you don't townread me?

maybe true, if he flips scum. but i dont feel good about it at all - especially the way the wagon has stalled with nobody willing to hammer. Usually the sign of a town wagon. Can we really not do an alternative?

And I don't have a strong townread on you, no. Nor do I particularly scumread you. You're not on the list I'd currently be elimming except by association perhaps.

[Battle Mage]

seems to me that he changed his mind on me as soon as he saw i had some suspicion on him

not exactly - I changed my mind on you as soon as you appeared like you knew Gypyx would flip town and wanted to gently put your weight behind a BM mis-elim tomorrow, and your reason for doing so was not believable.

[Battle Mage]

I see we are still a couple heads down so far

where's Mini and the Bailey?

Im here just didnt realise the game started lol.
I feel like you are town and from my understanding

you're fairly new to this?

lol this makes me so happy, and actually makes me think it ain't Ico-Mini. hmm....

It's definitely Mini + 1, given her iso, so maybe that's the starting point.

[Battle Mage]

i agree that like, if gypyx is scum here, the plan was to act as anti-survivalistically as possible, and failing that then giving up like this *probably* means the scumteam ain't in the best position anyway and the game is Probably Easy

BM, you don't townread me?

maybe true, if he flips scum. but i dont feel good about it at all - especially the way the wagon has stalled with nobody willing to hammer. Usually the sign of a town wagon. Can we really not do an alternative?

And I don't have a strong townread on you, no. Nor do I particularly scumread you. You're not on the list I'd currently be elimming except by association perhaps.

i don't think that's the case, ydrasse has said she's going to hammer, no? and like, i dunno. i started off good on gypyx. then he started lurking out, until the main wagon claimed PR, at which case he pre-emptively claimed VT and started acting as unsurvivalistically as possible which is like, not giving me Good Feels. also the whole scummy-VT-claim, never getting shot, risk of outing more PRs, *especially* this close to deadline where we potentially risk a no-elim.

how much do you factor meta into your reads? like i feel like i'm decently towny so far, especially considering the experience you have with me, so i'm kinda curious about that

i dont actually feel i have that strong a meta on you! You're fairly null mate, sorry! In contrast, coz I've played scum with Ydrasse, been on the receiving end of scum-Ydrasse and seen her as town, I feel I have a confident meta on her.

On Gypyx, I liked the VT claim there, I think I'd have done similar as town in the past. He didn't need to do it, and it was obviously going to get him run up. I do appreciate the point about not running up another PR, but eh...

I just think it's Mini + 1. Mad we aren't elimming there today really...

[Battle Mage]

Hmmm, straaling's "slip" doesn't look that problematic to me BM, like, if she is under the mindset that i'm town, i also see her writing that, i'd say it's 50/50

Anways i'll answer your question Battle boi

it's not a stonewall scumslip, but it pinged me for sure!

[Battle Mage]

@Battle Mage: i'm not suspicious of everyone voting for gypyx!! just you cuz the reasons you were giving when talking about him seemed maybe like you were lying. even if you're not confident and think he's a townie, you still gave reasons for why he's mafia while voting him like you were trying to justify your vote, and those didn't seem real to me

yeah, so like I said, you're being very careful to only suspect one person, and your reason is weak. You're accusing me of lying about a justification which I made after the fact - what's the motive? Why does scum-BM even bother to retrospectively justify a potentially elimming vote I've made on somebody? It's completely meaningless. In a funny way, I agree it wasn't a very good justification (I have already acknowledged this), and was probably more an outrage reaction at being misrepped than something which really indicated Gypyx-scum. But you're accusing me of lying, which is both untrue, and doesn't make any sense if I was scum. You also haven't engaged with any of my behaviour since, which I think you would have done if you were really interested in working out my alignment.

[Battle Mage]

Btw we have like a 1 in 7 chance of running that other PR though, and that's not even counting the fact that we're more likely to get scum (fmpov of course cuz i know i'm town)

Also datisi quick answer, the thing is that this :
>rl busy af
>i finally get the time to catch up
>Make a mid-catchup post
>mfw somehow i'm confscum 1 hour later

I really think, if it was solely up to me, I risk outting a PR and flip Mini here. *shrug*

[Battle Mage]

I see we are still a couple heads down so far

where's Mini and the Bailey?

Im here just didnt realise the game started lol.
I feel like you are town and from my understanding you're fairly new to this?

I guess she thought this was staarling. eh, maybe not staarling-mini then...

[Battle Mage]

i read the ISOs of both, twice over. Mini is much worse.

[Battle Mage]

FFS!! this is so dumb, let's just flip Mini! we're sat here just twiddling our thumbs. especially those who actually think Gypyx might be town but are doing nothing to provide an alternative.

[Battle Mage]

i do think staarling has flown well under people's radars, pardon the pun

[Battle Mage]

dude, if you're town, for daddy's sake vote for mini and let's drive that through.

otherwise i'll hammer you myself in frustration.

[Battle Mage]

On Gypyx, I liked the VT claim there, I think I'd have done similar as town in the past. He didn't need to do it, and it was obviously going to get him run up. I do appreciate the point about not running up another PR, but eh...

i can see a world where town does that, sure. but i can also easily see a world where scum is bluffing like that as well. maybe i'm biased because of reasons. maybe i just really hate that ico read and it's clouding my judgment. who knows.

also, there's a huge issue with running mini up that you're not considering:

if she's scum, she's gonna claim a PR

. so either she claims VT and we kill a VT (and we're worse off than now), or she's gonna claim PR and we're left with either risking pushing through a PR execution (which is probably gonna make people pause), scrambling back onto the VT claim, running up a comical third option, all with really not a lot of time left, giving scum more info to aim night actions *and* risking a no-exe. or maybe hammering her without a claim.

like, i get the idea. i really do. but i don't think it's a good one.

bleh. i dont get why he doesnt try and save himself. i hate this ethos of flipping a claimed VT because they didnt claim a PR when we know scum are much more likely to claim a PR. *sulks*

[Battle Mage]

you literally may as well self vote then

[Battle Mage]

if there is actually anyone willing to put Gypyx at -1, I will be online to drop a hammer.

[Battle Mage]

it's Mini, I'm convinced it's Mini.

[Battle Mage]

Sup BM :3

Pooks, who is Mini's partner? is it Gypyx and that's why Gypyx gave up (because she ain't around)?

[Battle Mage]

I targeted iv btw

partly because of gypyx flipping red making me look at one of the gypyx pushers (iv because I still TR ico)
and partly because I wanted to sheep ydrasse/ico a bit

gypyx flipped green.

VOTE: minimegabyte

no more fk ups today please

[Battle Mage]

i said it yesterday, just sheep me please. or read the ISO. i am not in high effort mode.

[Battle Mage]

this game is frustrating and ive only been here a few seconds

[Battle Mage]

lets have an easy day today and worry about who the partner is tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

V/LA until Monday evening

[Battle Mage]

Mini's whole ISO is pretty much entirely a combo of complete fluff/stalling and kissing up to shelly. Not much evidence of actual scumhunting or a town mindset. In the context of this game where most players have put in some effort (Datisi, Iconeum, Shelly for instance), flipping Mini is a complete no-brainer.

[Battle Mage]

i'm back!!!

so my early read today is that shelly is town because of the way Sirius was explaining how all flips are the same and the don't think too much part. if shelly were mafia, she would already know that Ydrasse was the mafia kill

I'd struggle to believe Shelly thought there would be a Vig and a Doc/RB, given she claimed Gunsmith. Assume she was just kidding, it isn't a townslip.

[Battle Mage]

id laugh so hard if the scumteam was Staarling and Mini, and their entire strategy coming in was "let's pocket shelly!"

[Battle Mage]

I’m here but not really here

just sheep me dude

[Battle Mage]

^idiot...

[Battle Mage]

I think Mini came off better than Shelly in their interaction on this page. Mini appeared considered and honest, while Shelly seemed like she was throwing shade to see what would stick. No tunnels here, just my vintage evolving reads. Still prefer a Mini-elim.

I assume it's obvious, but if Shelly makes it to ExLo, please do a bit of setup analysis to work out if her claim is likely legit. An investigative who is perpetually roleblocked is a classic scum fakeclaim.

[Battle Mage]

@Batlle Mage: what kind of case on Mini?

why we should elim her instead of you today. even if she isn't actually your preferred elim, i want to see your best, honest case. i'm not setting either of you up to fail - i think this could be instructive.

[Battle Mage]

i think she's a townie :<
i'd rather vote you than her, sorry. did you say why you think she's suspicious?

disappointing you won't even attempt to engage, but i gave you a chance! in the nicest possible way, why would it matter to me if you would rather vote for

me

than her? Are you hoping to persuade me to elim myself?

Spoiler:

i'm town, and that's a hard no.

[Battle Mage]

bloody hell do we really have a whole new page about Shelly saying i'm tunnelling when i'm not, and people asking me to case mini when i have?

yeah, ill give it a miss for now.

[Battle Mage]

yo BM

properly case Mini for us will you?

that's my major concern with BM; they're being really hyperfocused on mini but yet only provide reasoning of "iso bad"

major concern?? i provided reasoning on the late page, and you agreed with it? so where's your major concern? and why have you ignored what happened?

lazy

[Battle Mage]

why not minimegabyte again?

yo BM

properly case Mini for us will you?

i did already (as much as im gonna do) - read back

[Battle Mage]

me/shellyc/staarling/bm town

whyyyyyyy is BM a towner?

why aren't they?

I feel like they are attempting to solve, they have reads, are pushing it

great read

[Battle Mage]

why we should elim her instead of you today.

Why do you want to eliminate town? That’s not very good of you

let me get this right.

Mini is certain Staarling is town.

Staarling is confident Mini is town.

Unless we've got masons here (in which case i'm completely fine with a claim), I'm struggling to see how we haven't got some scum in this duo.

[Battle Mage]

@Mini: I don't get what he's saying haha
did he say why he's suspicious of you?

alsooo i just realized that shelly was roleblocked instead of being killed even though she said she's a gunsmith.. is that normal for mafia to do?

did he say why he's suspicious of you

From my understanding I believe BM just said that my iso looks bad

this is why i have no interest in making any detailed cases in this game. because nobody even reads the limited shit i do post.

and yes, it's obviously possible that mafia has a roleblocker and shelly's claim is legit. how likely that is? eh, a matter of opinion.

[Battle Mage]

I feel like they are attempting to solve, they have reads, are pushing it

I haven't seen an ounce of solving on the mini slot, just "Sheep me plz Mini is a scummo their ISO is bad."

are you serious? you literally piggybacked off my analysis a couple pages ago, to

feign

do some solving of your own.

i am so frustrated right now, but also care so little.

[Battle Mage]

Mini's whole ISO is pretty much entirely a combo of complete fluff/stalling and kissing up to shelly. Not much evidence of actual scumhunting or a town mindset. In the context of this game where most players have put in some effort (Datisi, Iconeum, Shelly for instance), flipping Mini is a complete no-brainer.

^ i have no idea what anyone could possibly want, or expect, from a Mini-case. i also have no idea why we're flipping IV, but don't have a strong objection.

[Battle Mage]

major concern?? i provided reasoning on the late page, and you agreed with it? so where's your major concern? and why have you ignored what happened?

lazy

Yes, I agreed with it. But it's pretty vague, don't ya think? fluff and stalling applies to a few slots in this gamestate here.

there is literally nothing else to say. let me put it another way - do you think, on balance, they've done enough to prove they're town?

[Battle Mage]

i mean, obviously you dont, so i dont know why you're pulling my chain on this

[Battle Mage]

i have no idea what anyone could possibly want, or expect, from a Mini-case.

Also note that you (probably since you've played with her) know mini's townplay is rather lynchbaitey and not very solvey whatsoever.

im sure you're right, but i dont really remember. do you think her scumplay is different? otherwise, i dont think that's enough to give a slot a free-pass.

[Battle Mage]

Also BM I never said the word tunnelling in the last two pages, so don't know where you got tunnelling from.

I just think you spend a lot of time and effort circling around Mini and trying to prove that slot = scum. Which is concerning given that you seem to have not much interest solving the other slots, like IV.

you used some alternative word instead (hyper-focusing?), but you were making the same point.

suggesting ive used any effort or brainpower, would be a gross overstatement.

show me your case on IV, and ill give you my opinion.

[Battle Mage]

i mean, obviously you dont, so i dont know why you're pulling my chain on this

I want to sort you through mini since you not really interacting elsewhere, and the solve as mini/BM is impossible.

its pretty obvious im town regardless, you have played with me lots so given your love of meta, you have no excuse to not see that.

[Battle Mage]

i need to work, ill be back later.

[Battle Mage]

something about this game is completely de-motivating me. maybe it's the incessant random solves out of nowhere which involve me being scum somehow.

is it possible we can try and elim 1 scum first, and THEN work out who the partner is?

[Battle Mage]

i mean, obviously you dont, so i dont know why you're pulling my chain on this

I want to sort you through mini since you not really interacting elsewhere, and the solve as mini/BM is impossible.

i actually have interacted with other people (staarling as a notable example), but you won't acknowledge that for some reason?

also, i don't wanna sound 'coachy', but the oft-repeated idea a BM/mini scumteam is "impossible" is ludicrous. I think you can say it's unlikely? but if you're arguing it's unlikely just because I pushed to elim Mini, and I'd never do that to a scumpartner, that's not good reasoning.

[Battle Mage]

you *have* to be townreading at least like 2 out of 3 in me/shellyc/datisi right? ALL our solves for today are basicly IV + probably mini

with an established case on IV, that we ALL wanna see flipped

we ALL asked you to provide a case on Mini to which you basicly said 'No, i just want all of you to blindly sheep me as i'm not putting more effort into this game'
and then continued to just cry about how you are somehow in the solve today?

i don't get it

i guess i'm townreading you and Datisi more by POE than anything else, although I havent got anything really solid. I think this is well within Shelly-scum territory, although I don't suggest going there today (her claim should make her solvable as we learn more about the setup).

your definition of "we all" is like 2 or 3 of you? it ain't even a majority because

Spoiler:

we're still in the day phase

I had actually responded to your specific ask on the Mini case previously, so you've obviously ignored it. Don't feel bad, Shelly did the same a few pages ago. I don't get it. Like whether you're scum or town, don't rag about me not doing things i literally did with the purpose of helping you.

[Battle Mage]

something about this game is completely de-motivating me. maybe it's the incessant random solves out of nowhere which involve me being scum somehow.

is it possible we can try and elim 1 scum first, and THEN work out who the partner is?

literally

nobody

is doing random solves that include you somehow

get the fuck off of your high horse and work with us here

please read the game man

[Battle Mage]

Mini's whole ISO is pretty much entirely a combo of complete fluff/stalling and kissing up to shelly. Not much evidence of actual scumhunting or a town mindset. In the context of this game where most players have put in some effort (Datisi, Iconeum, Shelly for instance), flipping Mini is a complete no-brainer.

^ i have no idea what anyone could possibly want, or expect, from a Mini-case. i also have no idea why we're flipping IV, but don't have a strong objection.

i think the issue here is "do you flip the actually scummy player or do you flip the lollurker that can go either way?". like mini's iso isn't great and isn't towny. yeah ok i agree. but there's been someone who i'm actively suspicious of (did you read my response to his "wallpost", 653-657?), and the only reason i can think of right now for flipping mini is the lowkey-pl of "i don't wanna be sorting this in lylo", when further flips might as well help us with that.

i think this is a bad mentality for town's to have - a good town should be setting a precedent of punishing lurking, not giving it a free pass.

i'll read your post

[Battle Mage]

IV + BM don't win this game

pfft, if i was scum in this game with anybody i could win.

[Battle Mage]

but I think an IV flip (pending claim) is just solid, and a lot of stuff can be worked out in a mass claim in LYLO anyway

he hasnt claimed?

[Battle Mage]

something silly like datisi + BM have a solid chance

if BM+Datisi scum didn't win this game, I would legit retire.

[Battle Mage]

IV scum with Mini flipping town probably points to BM being the partner tho

You think BM would defend that hard?

I honestly remember a me/BM scumteam (t'was a newbie that we both repped in) think BM pushed the CW to me pretty hard.

so...uh...you ask Ico if you think I would defend a scumbuddy. and then defensively add that you also think this?

also all i remember of that game you reference is, we were completely fked before i repped in.

[Battle Mage]

I think that in the specific situation where IV flips red and Mini flips green, BM might be a partner yeah.

you literally said you weren't doing this...and then you did it.

[Battle Mage]

Honest Ico TM* thoughts here

Shellyc is town
BM is town
IV is probably scum

BM is upset about people not blindly sheeping them *despite that grand and epic case they made*
BM needs to step down just a little, look at what they are using to push mini, and come to the conclusion that *just maybe* it's not as persuasive as they think it is

This game is not datisi!scum with IV!scum, nor is it shellyc!scum with IV!scum
This game is not BM!scum + Mini!scum

dude, im not pushing that my "grand and epic case" is persuasive. I'm simply saying, over and over again, that i've posted the only case that can be made on the lurkerslot, and I'm bored of people going "well BM won't tell us what his case is" because they ain't reading. you can say it's a shit case, but i'd love to see someone do better, rather than just whinge at me for not doing something i did.

i also dont know why, given you think im town, you're wasting time with solves which involve me as scum. despite saying you wouldn't.

this game!!

[Battle Mage]

major concern?? i provided reasoning on the late page, and you agreed with it? so where's your major concern? and why have you ignored what happened?

lazy

Yes, I agreed with it. But it's pretty vague, don't ya think? fluff and stalling applies to a few slots in this gamestate here.

there is literally nothing else to say. let me put it another way - do you think, on balance, they've done enough to prove they're town?

No. I don't think mini has towntelled at all.

Is that the essence of the scumcase actually, that mini isn't proving themselves as town
mini has gotten miselim'd/close to it in almost all their towngames i think.

This is an example of why I think you just might be scum here. I think as town you would be more amenable to just sheeping me because you agree with me. Instead, you're frantically trying to re-word my argument to make it sound original, like you came up with it yourself.

[Battle Mage]

im sure you're right, but i dont really remember. do you think her scumplay is different? otherwise, i dont think that's enough to give a slot a free-pass.

Scumplay close to no reads and lurksack, apologies for inactivity

great, just like here.

[Battle Mage]

sorry that came across slightly harsh, apologies Mini

[Battle Mage]

Mini's whole ISO is pretty much entirely a combo of complete fluff/stalling and kissing up to shelly. Not much evidence of actual scumhunting or a town mindset. In the context of this game where most players have put in some effort (Datisi, Iconeum, Shelly for instance), flipping Mini is a complete no-brainer.

^ i have no idea what anyone could possibly want, or expect, from a Mini-case. i also have no idea why we're flipping IV, but don't have a strong objection.

I thought you were talking about this post, yeah.

But do you realize the problem?

You push mini over fluffing/non-efforting where you admit to doing this yourself to some extent.

I also don't understand why you are upset with people not sheeping you on this post.

erm no. my low-efforting is still me giving opinions, and getting stuck in. it's different from fluff.

i'm literally not upset with people not sheeping me, and i have no idea why you're STILL banging on that drum. i'm frustrated that nobody seems motivated to do anything other than moan about me not posting stuff which i did post.

[Battle Mage]

major concern?? i provided reasoning on the late page, and you agreed with it? so where's your major concern? and why have you ignored what happened?

lazy

Yes, I agreed with it. But it's pretty vague, don't ya think? fluff and stalling applies to a few slots in this gamestate here.

there is literally nothing else to say. let me put it another way - do you think, on balance, they've done enough to prove they're town?

Why are you giving crap to Shellyc about (town) mini, when they have mini in their PoE solve?

"giving crap"?

do explain how me explaining my suspicion of mini, when Shelly was asking me, is giving shelly crap?

your question should instead be, why is shelly arguing with me suspecting mini if she also suspects mini?

[Battle Mage]

guiltyvillager!scum Explained:
- Their interaction with Dats was pretty stubborn/obtuse
- General lack of enthusiasm/curiosity that innocent!IV has.
- The Grand Process of Elimination

To elaborate on the first point, Datisi pushed IV to explain his trajectory on GB and the TR there, and IV basically obtusely deflected and failed to explain that read whatsoever. IV was NOT interacting with Datisi (probtown atm) in good faith at all, instead shrugging off Datisi's attempts to question him and started poking back at Datisi randomly. IV also sounded really frustrated over nothing, really, which sounds like overreaction to being pushed.

Second point is a bit meta-based as well, and the lack of effort or engagement at all to expand on his reads and interact in good faith is scummy.

i've been scum with innocent villager before, and as i recall he was very enthusiastic. in fact, he enthusiastically bussed the absolute shit out of me.

so your case on him is basically you think Datisi is town, and he looked scummy in interaction with him. I'll have a look, but even if that is true, it doesn't strike me that you're pushing the world's strongest case.

[Battle Mage]

IV has expressed reads on everyone in the game despite them not being really in-depth

i think dats making it top priority for iv to make content is weird, why iv and not. any other slot like mini/staarling.

i did at this hard defence of IV from Shelly, and attack on Datisi to try and undermine his IV-case.

[Battle Mage]

i read Datisi case on IV.

Didn't make me convinced IV was scum, although looking at his ISO, it's possible.

Did make me feel better about Datisi-town.

[Battle Mage]

staarling where are you?

[Battle Mage]

ill hear an IV claim

[Battle Mage]

i'm still not sure on shelly but innocentvillager was the other person who i thought could be the killer. should i vote for him?

yeah why not

[Battle Mage]

hold on you hammered!?

[Battle Mage]

dude if that's legit, wow.

[Battle Mage]

i thought iconeum was the third vote on him?

you voted him even though you knew he was at -1 and hadn't claimed?

[Battle Mage]

ah i didnt know this had started again

weekend v/la

[Battle Mage]

I'm a

vanilla townie

I'll try and keep my thoughts fairly succinct and in 1 post:

Massclaim is correct play today - key is working out what the setup balance should be.

I still think Mini is most likely scum and one weakness of the Doctor claim is Mini claimed to target Shelly last night which makes no sense when she claimed there was a scum roleblocker (i.e. scum had no incentive to NK her). Also if Shelly's claim is true, Mini-mafia RB would have had to target her over the last 2 nights, meaning it's a safe claim in the event of any trackers/watchers. Overall, it's possible, but I don't buy it, and my preference is to eliminate her today.

I'm baffled by the Staarling-NK, although it doesn't tell me much about who did it. Mini-scum could have made an objectively bad kill choice. Datisi/Icon scum probably assume this game is in the bag anyway, so it didn't really matter. Same perhaps true of Shelly, although Staarling was suspicious of her at the end of yesterday, so there's also that. For what it's worth, scum-BM would never kill Staarling in that situation, as the easiest route to victory would be 2 required mis-elims on Staarling and Mini.

This is my first time playing a game with a majority 'townblock' of which I'm not a part, despite being town. Tbh, it's pretty de-motivating, because this game basically plays itself now without any real intelligent thought, so I'm not gonna high-effort unless there's evidence that we aren't just going through the motions.

I think if it's not Mini, it's probably Shelly, for a number of reasons:

1. Shelly is just riding off an investigative claim with no results, despite having been considered the scummiest player on Day 1, which is a basic but proven scum gambit (interestingly, more valuable when your scumteam has a rolecop which gives you more insight into the setup).
2. Shelly has been pushing the idea of me being scum for no reason for a long time. Which would make sense if she needed to line up 2 mis-elims to win, and her own position is the next most precarious (although you could level the same challenge at me now). However, Shelly is a capable player who has not been trying to read me in good-faith, and not properly looking at Dat-Ico. It hasn't seemed to me like Shelly has tried to solve my slot at all - which either mean she is scum, or possibly just wants to elim me for personal reasons. For that reason, I'm not
3. Shelly has just been generally very scummy in this game, even the little things like sheeping other people's logic without acknowledging it, and posturing with probing questions seemed a bit LAMIST.

I think because of the above, I'm resigned to the fact that Ico or Datisi scum win this game due to the townblock, so am fine with that. I'll be disappointed to lose to scum-Shelly if that is the case, but that's the peril of bad townblocks I guess, and I'll take the cred for being right all along. Scum-mini should never win anyway, so if that's the solve we're all good.

VOTE: Mini

[Battle Mage]

Okay okay jeez I’m a town doctor no need to hammer me here jesus

i know i said only 1 post, but come on. lurk for days, and then act shocked and appalled when you get run up. also not even "the" town doctor?

also just occurred to me that if Shelly is town, we had scum-RB and scum-rolecop and no scum-doctor? both of which would show up guilty to a gunsmith? Is it normal to have a gunsmith in a normal setup without any false positive potential?

[Battle Mage]

also just occurred to me that if Shelly is town, we had scum-RB and scum-rolecop and no scum-doctor? both of which would show up guilty to a gunsmith? Is it normal to have a gunsmith in a normal setup without any false positive potential?

there's nothing in the Normal rules that says that a town gunsmith has to have false positives/negatives.

lol I wasn't suggesting it would be against the rules - more a question of whether it is usually the case or not. I can't think I've ever seen it.

[Battle Mage]

to my question above, are we just going through the motions here? Or are you considering the possibility Shelly could be scum, if Mini isn't?

[Battle Mage]

what's a checker? i think in my country we call it a draught lol

[Battle Mage]

eh, this is already too complicated for me haha, ill be back when the massclaim is done.

[Battle Mage]

haha, so just to recap, if I was scum, the setup would be:

Mafia RB/rolestopper or something like that
Mafia 1-shot Rolecop

against 3 VTs and 4 town PRs, including a full protective and investigative (and a bulletproof and someone whose main purpose appears to be to confirm the existence of a roleblocker?).

Using newbie setups as a comparison, clearly that wouldn't be balanced.

[Battle Mage]

Datisi - town checker
Ico - gated BP
shellyc - ungated gunsmith (equiv. to cop)
mini - ungated doctor

I think gated BP, town checker, and ungated GS would be enough power. ungated gunsmith + doc + BP is too much. probably scum between ico/mini and almost certainly mini

eh, claim wise i'm having more trouble with Datisi than Ico. In that I'm not seeing the value of a town checker role in this setup as claimed?

[Battle Mage]

I also don't think Ico-scum gains much from fakeclaiming BP here.

[Battle Mage]

yep agree, it's mini first for sure. If not, we look between Shelly and Datisi.

[Battle Mage]

lol

[Battle Mage]

yep agree, it's mini first for sure. If not, we look between Shelly and Datisi.

Im Flipping you before datsi tho

I don't think that makes sense, for setup reasons discussed above. For me to be scum here, setup definitely too town heavy.

[Battle Mage]

you can self-hammer if you want, i wont accuse you of throwing. we're just going through the motions now for today. if you flip town, some actual solving will be required tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

i guess maybe i'm the obvtowniest player now huh? maybe i'll eat an NK tonight as usual.

[Battle Mage]

haha i mean if you are a doctor, it does raise a question over the BP claim. Although I guess BP+Doc+Checker could work - lots of protection but no investigative.

[Battle Mage]

BM are you voting me?

yup

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

now you can self-vote, and ill hammer

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

now you can self-vote, and ill hammer

[Battle Mage]

tbh, i dont really see why Ico did want to claim last as a gated BP

[Battle Mage]

STOP!

[Battle Mage]

hammah time!

VOTE: Mini

======================[[[[[]]]]]

[Battle Mage]

were you scum?

[Battle Mage]

[unv][/unv]

if I was voting

mini feels genuine enough, if its appeal to emotion, I'm buying it

p-edit: uhhhh

lol oh Shelly

[Battle Mage]

Thanks BM

Nah I really was town doctor

ah well, if so, sorry! no hard feelings though

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage has

left the town to go eat delicious ramen soup.

He was a

Town Vanilla.

Spoiler: Role PM

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

obvtown-BM strikes again (bah go town)
Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

[Battle Mage]

yeah right looking through i had ten lolsolves none of which were correct

was i scum in all of them? lol

well played Datisi, fun game! a tricky exLo for town in the end.