Mini Normal 2173 | Bending | Game Over

[VP Baltar]

Ah, did DKb almost catch out Marky Mark? Is that what happened? I’ve been sitting on that for a while and I saw it as townie because I town read Marky, but if I look at it from a different perspective, I feel I can see that world

Mark claims he is going to verify infinity tonight

[VP Baltar]

JV wasnt lurky initially but sure is now.

This game is going hella fast though, yeah?

[VP Baltar]

there are a lot of pages, thats true.

why are you suddenly willing to engage with me? i mean i appreciate it, but it seems out of character for you

I was wrong about geraintm.

What were you saying earlier about your questioning of infinity

[VP Baltar]

why did being wrong about gerain suddenly make you willing to re-evaluate now?

Nerves. I mean, if I'm wrong on you, I'd want to yeet me. That puts town in a very bad position on D4. I'd rather get a scum today for sure.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
I'm going to sleep and need to think for a min on this

[VP Baltar]

why did being wrong about gerain suddenly make you willing to re-evaluate now?

Nerves. I mean, if I'm wrong on you, I'd want to yeet me. That puts town in a very bad position on D4. I'd rather get a scum today for sure.

it helps when u dont unvote scum

Infinity could be the scum here tho. His claim is kind of bullshit

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: taylor

I slept and this still seems right.

[VP Baltar]

My problem with JV is that they make logical sense, but every time I read them in ISO I get almost no scum vibes

Is that a problem? I'm confused

By problem, I mean it would be an obvious solve here if you are scum, but I have a hard time seeing that when I read your posts. I could be getting snowed by someone, and I don't like that

[VP Baltar]

A50, your nonvoting is starting to bug me actually.

[VP Baltar]

I have explained at great length why I SRed Koba D1 and a good dose of that was her discrediting and refusal to answer simple questions. Yes, I was incorrect but I followed up my points with her because I didn't want her to avoid scrutiny by deflecting (eg the repeated refusal to explain the inconsistencies in 909)

I'd like to hear where you are on Koba currently. If town reading, what changed your mind specifically?

[VP Baltar]

And you're TRing taylor and infinity both?

[VP Baltar]

VP is obvscum please vote him everyone

Curious if you actually think this is effective

[VP Baltar]

Not really, I'm just being true to myself

I appreciate your inner Gwyneth Paltrow

[VP Baltar]

im home but im assembling a chair imma catch up later but still disappointed the taylor wagon is all but gone :/

I don't think it is though. Taylor is the yeet today

[VP Baltar]

The fact you're lurking to snipe shows you are scum here

[VP Baltar]

VP do you pinky promise that youre town?

I'm town. I think we have to clear this up though today. Like I said before, if flipping me made the most sense, I'd be fine with that.

However, when I look at your scum list and basically it entirely hinges on me being scum, and I know I'm not, I have to basically assume you are the scum here who has built a house of cards.

[VP Baltar]

I can't get behind JV. And the fact that everyone finds them a possible scum is a red flag to me that they likely are not.

A50 or DGB may be alternatives to Taylor today, but I think our alota have to get resolved sooner rather than later for town to win. Either by yeet or night actions.

[VP Baltar]

EBWOP: our slots have to get resolved...

[VP Baltar]

I have no idea what tonight will sort to be honest.

I suppose I'm not opposed to NM, but that still feels like a shot in the dark to me.

[VP Baltar]

I'm willing to sheep FL and Koba today.

[VP Baltar]

I could go Andres.

Let me be clear, you two need to agree for me to sheep.

[VP Baltar]

The slip will never get off of my mind.

Can you explain the slip to me like I'm 5?

All I saw was Andres saying Koba is town, and he's been calling Koba town all game. Didn't read like a slip to me

[VP Baltar]

(at least he isn't FoSing the whole game and the players of neighboring games too!!)

That's not remotely what is happening tho....

(Also, happy cake day)

[VP Baltar]

The slip will never get off of my mind.

Can you explain the slip to me like I'm 5?

All I saw was Andres saying Koba is town, and he's been calling Koba town all game. Didn't read like a slip to me

reading someone as town, and knowing someone is town are 2 different things.

Andres acted like he KNEW Koba was town specifically after I claimed, and then he used misunderstanding of the role as his explanation.

If he is scum, that is by far the best defense he could have used. I feel like that misunderstanding part was fake, and he slipped that he knew Koba was town, if that makes sense.

Ok I guess I see where you are coming from.

FN is kind of a weird role though. I say this having just been one in my recently finished game. I had to look up that very issue about whether the action fails if it targets scum.

It might be a slip, but it also might be a misunderstanding. Linking it to misreading the wiki is different from what I was thinking though

[VP Baltar]

But if you do a quick reread of the day you'd see most players have had more suspects than the game possibly has scum

I don't see the problem in pushing different people on D2.

It's probably worse to not have clear scum suspects at all. That's what I see from you when you're not voting anyone all day. That's what I see from infinity and Taylor when their entire worldview hangs on me being scum.

[VP Baltar]

FL, you sure this is town?

[VP Baltar]

Can I get a link again to that mark scum game? I might do some reading this weekend

[VP Baltar]

I do not understand why you TR me

I don't. That's your problem.

You make a lot of logical sense as partner with Taylor.

What I said was I haven't found your posting overly scummy, despite it making sense if Taylor flips red. I'm not going to support a wagon on an associative before a flip though.

The fact you're coming in to chainsaw for taylor now with a misreading of my statement only further proves my point.

[VP Baltar]

Taylor's a garbage read? You sure about that?

[VP Baltar]

The read in association read is garbage. I agree with scum!taylor

I could be wrong.

But so I'm understanding you correctly, you think both Taylor and I could be scum here?

[VP Baltar]

@Jackson - If Taylor and I are both scum, I deserve a damn Scummy nomination.

Anyhow, Taylor is still at L-2?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: taylor

Actual hammer

[VP Baltar]

Double hammer. NOICE

[VP Baltar]

that we've rushed this.

Looks at page count. Looks directly into camera.

[VP Baltar]

VP is still scum

Vig me

[VP Baltar]

Tayl0r is green.

Unlikely

[VP Baltar]

Tayl0r is green.

Unlikely

fuck did i forget to ego the scum PT and misread my role PM? its possible. expressing this sort of doubt after my townclaim and post hammer posts is a scum claim. its pretty clear im town now.

Literally every scum says that nonsense as WIFOM post death. It's fine.

If I'm wrong, sorry then. Infinity is duping you if that's the case.

[VP Baltar]

You really think she flips green here, Andres?

[VP Baltar]

So I'm clear, your reads upon death are DGB&VP scum, infinity & mark town?

[VP Baltar]

So vp scum, mark town. That's the entirety of your parting thoughts?

[VP Baltar]

You really think she flips green here, Andres?

Yeah. I don’t see the need to do all this as Scum.

Always good to WIFOM as dead scum. Plus I'm not sold on "all this" as much effort.

We will find out when the mod gets here next week

[VP Baltar]

Hope A50 weighs in here

[VP Baltar]

I didn’t think it was a hammer. You guys are bad at counting.

I knew it wasn't a hammer. But wanted to see the fake. Taylor is probably still scum here

[VP Baltar]

ok and A50 is town after all

Why's that again?

[VP Baltar]

Also fml this game has to drag on more when we need a flip

[VP Baltar]

Taylor/A50/nm might be the squad here. They could be holding rank since NM doesn't talk and has few associatives. Plus lack of day talk probably means bussing is less likely since scum don't want to hurt each other's feelings without asking first.

Infinity is alternate for Taylor.

[VP Baltar]

I'm debating if my death helps crack this open fully today. Me flipping green could show my hypothesis is correct and lead to a faster victory than of we even yeet scum today.

[VP Baltar]

I'm debating if my death helps crack this open fully today. Me flipping green could show my hypothesis is correct and lead to a faster victory than of we even yeet scum today.

It doesn’t. Because I can clear you easily if Tayl0r flips Scum.

Sure. The problem is that there are too many town who think taylor and infinity are both town here.

If I die, enough people will see that's not true. Whichever of taylor and infinity are getting dupped here would have to acknowledge I was right

[VP Baltar]

Yeah but you got Tayl0r to L-1.

I guess the prob is that taylor COULD be the town here. It is a 50/50 with infinity. If I'm wrong, that's very bad for town since I will need to go

[VP Baltar]

I think Infinity has to be Town.

Hmm. Yeah maybe. Like if you were scum, wouldn't you chose a weaker player to fake verify? That's not a terrible point

[VP Baltar]

Counterargument would be that placating a strong player could keep pressure off in the short term

[VP Baltar]

@andres - you realize I was saying flavor town long ago, right?

[VP Baltar]

@andres - you realize I was saying flavor town long ago, right?

Uhm, you’ve been calling it a 50/50 like 10 minutes ago. I think you need people to believe that in case Tayl0r flips Town, so that you don’t get immediately executed. But if Tayl0r flips Town, you should be executed I’m afraid.

I'm really not following your logic here. My point is that you are clearing infinity for saying Flavor is town, and I've been doing that for a long time,just not related to a night action

[VP Baltar]

Marky Mark's updated "middling" read of VP is that I'm scum LOL

Actually is slightly weird he had taylor and I in exactly the same bracket. Prevents alignment tells either way

[VP Baltar]

Taylor/A50/nm might be the squad here. They could be holding rank since NM doesn't talk and has few associatives. Plus lack of day talk probably means bussing is less likely since scum don't want to hurt each other's feelings without asking first.

Infinity is alternate for Taylor.

You’ve been saying Infinity is Town for a long time, really? Are you sure about that?

I have not been saying. I said one of taylor or infinity is absolutely scum here. Are you intentionally trying to misread me at this point?

[VP Baltar]

@andres - you realize I was saying flavor town long ago, right?

Uhm, you’ve been calling it a 50/50 like 10 minutes ago. I think you need people to believe that in case Tayl0r flips Town, so that you don’t get immediately executed. But if Tayl0r flips Town, you should be executed I’m afraid.

I'm really not following your logic here. My point is that you are clearing infinity for saying Flavor is town, and I've been doing that for a long time,just not related to a night action

So what are you saying here then? The way I read it, you’re saying that you’ve been TR’ing Infinity outside of their Night Action clearing Flavor. Is that not what you meant?

No. I've been saying I'm willing to give infinity a night to prove his claim (which is suspicious, but that is still the right play)

I know you can't see my alignment, so I get it. But from my perspective, those two having exactly the same reads and hanging up on me all game means one of them is scum snowing the other. There is 99% chance one of them is scum though from my perspective.

Infinity's claim doesn't mean shit to me until he gets a confirmed guilty

[VP Baltar]

Oh I misread it. I replaced Flavor for Infinity in the original post.

In any case, it’s ALSO not true. When Flavor came in, you said that you liked their posting, but would maintain your skepticism in that direction. I can find the specific post. I think that Flavor has not been seriously pushed, so you never really had to adjust too hard there, and now that Flavor has claimed, it’s just convenient.

You think that is the only thing I said about flavor? Because I am fairly sure it is not.

I read his scum guide and said he was a town read for me around that. It was before he claimed.

Flavor can feel free to say if I haven't been town reading him for some time. You cherry picking old posts ain't gonna change the truth of the matter. Don't confbias yourself

[VP Baltar]

I mean, I don't care if you're voting me? You're wrong. You're definitely cherry picking. Tomorrow when I'm on a computer, I can dig up this other stuff and prove you wrong, but I'm also not super interested in having a giant post battle if you're super convinced. I think odds on you are town, so adding more pages to the game trying to open your eyes may be more inefficient than my flip.

[VP Baltar]

I'll vote myself tomorrow to speed it along. I want to put some reads out there, but there is fuckery in Taylor and infinity. I'm not going to spend all game going on about that.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP Baltar

Cool. Let's play. I'll be going to bed soon. Feel free to finish the job. It's insane you think Taylor gets to L-1 twice, doesn't claim, and also magically never dies. Like, it's an annoyingly stupid blindspot you are digging. But me flipping green is the most efficient fix.

Just remember when I'm dead, my reads are spot on. Check gammas too.

Theres a scum in (infinity, Taylor). Possible scum in (DGB, Mark). I'd lean DGB, but Mark's later play today is kind of trash.

A50 is likely, though could be NM. I can't read the latter. I'd put money on A50 being the scum though.

FL, Koba, Jackson, andres are town in descending order of confidence.

[VP Baltar]

Dude, there are 150 pages and it is D2. I'm not gonna argue for 50 more pages. I can prove I'm right much faster by dying. Let's do this thing so this game can progress. I'll tell you I told you so in post game

[VP Baltar]

Infinity trying to pocket Andres out of this is not great. Anyhow, I don't think I'm necessarily wrong this is the right play. I do sort of wonder if scum have the guts to follow through though. If Koba and FL don't end up voting me, scum will almost all need to be on my wagon to make this happen.

[VP Baltar]

I don’t want a flip based on a self-vote. Last time that happened it was Town that had given up. I will wait out some more comments and I do want Koba to talk to me at more length.

I'm not giving up as town. I'm wedging scum with a flip they don't want. Taylor and infinity have backed themselves into a world where I have to be scum in all scenarios. That means my flip is a terrible outcome for them. They've had material support from NM all day, and A50 in the sidelines.

If I turn green soon, that PoE becomes inescapable if you guys can follow through effectively.

[VP Baltar]

Last, I was doing some thinking. If Taylor is the scum here, Mark may be the scum in the DGB/Mark combo.

Taylor has been the main person pushing the "Mark is bad as scum" narrative. It occurred to me that she might be defusing pressure on him before it starts if they are working together.

I'm not certain, but it's an avenue to investigate after I'm gone.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

I think taylor should claim, then happy to return my vote there.

[VP Baltar]

Barring some major revelation

[VP Baltar]

Fucking claim. Jesus

[VP Baltar]

Was hoping taylor would claim a PR because then we would know it was fake. Argh.

Taylor, how did you go from NM locktown to likely scum with me?

[VP Baltar]

and i dont really buy the progression from NM.

Has there been a progression? I feel like he wants me and maybe was willing to yeet you to get to me. If we are both town here, NM is almost certainly scum

[VP Baltar]

How do you feel about infinity, NM? Town or scum?

[VP Baltar]

Leaning town

K.

And who are my buddies here? Just so we get this on record now.

[VP Baltar]

Three times now huh. I hate it.

VOTE: taylor

Going to take some time later today to look at the specifics of how each taylor wagon stalled to see if there are any patterns.

[VP Baltar]

this is what happens when u fking unvote!!!!!!!

I'm sorry ok! I just wanted to make it clear I'm not messing around with my call on the scum team. They foolishly built their strategy on me today, and I'm willing to yolo to burn that down.

Anyhow, zero chance Taylor as town has a wagon dissolve thrice with people randomly coming and going.

[VP Baltar]

I feel good about this. There are alot of people I TR on that wagon.

[VP Baltar]

Wow, weird start to the day.

I can confirm I did not receive message last night. I think we should have Mark claim.

[VP Baltar]

It is clear now that infinity/taylor/me were getting duped on all sides. Obviously I have some bad reads. I have a few avenues of thought about this, but also feel like I've fucked this game up...

[VP Baltar]

I can confirm I did not receive message last night. I think we should have Mark claim.

you absolute BUFFOON why are u claiming

FL asked me to claim whether I got a message.

[VP Baltar]

Andres, the only reason to not have Mark claim first is that this is an FL/Koba gambit, right?

I'll admit, that is one possibility that crossed my mind (and if true, nice play). But that's a bold claim and also feels paranoid to me?

[VP Baltar]

Andres, the only reason to not have Mark claim first is that this is an FL/Koba gambit, right?

I'll admit, that is one possibility that crossed my mind (and if true, nice play). But that's a bold claim and also feels paranoid to me?

I have you as almost certain Scum, so you can stop with this nonsense and just push me. You’ve pushed nothing but Town, and you want to try and defend Flavor and Koba here? Ridiculous.

I understand why you'd suspect me here. I mean, the shit thing is if it had been me instead of taylor yesterday, she'd be in this same spot.

Either scum sat back and let us fight yesterday, or we are getting tricked pretty hard here.

[VP Baltar]

I really don't get why you're flipping a shit because I responded to you andres

[VP Baltar]

@Koba/VPB/Not Mafia/A50

You lot all understand what I did, right? Like I know I’m next level, but I feel that’s pretty entry level gambiting.

I get what you're saying.


DGB, who is scum today?

[VP Baltar]

I really don't get why you're flipping a shit because I responded to you andres

I’m not going crazy and don’t try to paint it that way. You’ve literally pushed only Town slots, and now that you’ve run out of stuff to push, you’re trying to see where the direction of the game is headed before you decide what to do. You can’t so obviously side with Flavor/Koba that much I know. Because they will most likely be flipped at some point, particularly if I’m executed. So you have to keep your distance. I get it.

Huh? I never said you were crazy. Just being super aggressive.

I mean, yes I was wrong. Feels bad actually. Why are you so sure you're getting yeeted here? I don't see why we don't hear from the PRs first before we worry about yeeting anyone today. Once the info is on the table, we can make a more informed decision.

[VP Baltar]

I really don't get why you're flipping a shit because I responded to you andres

I’m not going crazy and don’t try to paint it that way. You’ve literally pushed only Town slots, and now that you’ve run out of stuff to push, you’re trying to see where the direction of the game is headed before you decide what to do. You can’t so obviously side with Flavor/Koba that much I know. Because they will most likely be flipped at some point, particularly if I’m executed. So you have to keep your distance. I get it.

It's true that VP only pushed town slots.

Not really unless you know alignments of people who have not flipped. Can't say my reads have been good though.

[VP Baltar]

@Koba/VPB/Not Mafia/A50

You lot all understand what I did, right? Like I know I’m next level, but I feel that’s pretty entry level gambiting.

I get what you're saying.


DGB, who is scum today?

Really? Explain what it is you supposedly understand.

FL says he implied Loyal modifier, meaning only town would receive his message. He came out today asking me first if I received a message, as I obviously look scummy with the flips. He is saying if I were scum, I would claim to have received it or I'd be obv scum because of the presumed loyal modifier.

[VP Baltar]

Hahahahaha you sent VPB a message?

Alright, DGB please Unvote. You’re going to cost us the game.

You want me to unvote Mark?

Yes. And vote Koba.

why

Koba appeared to soft that they had sent me a message. Go back and read it. They are hard claimed to be a Simple Mailman who messaged Marky Mark, who has now revealed to be a PR and most likely Watcher or Voyeur or whatever the role is that sees what happens to someone that is targeted. I’m Vanilla I’m hard claimed. So they stopped softing the notion that they sent me a message and decided to not hard reveal their target. It’s a ploy.

Won't we know that is fake though if no one claims a message?

[VP Baltar]

Yes it's a ploy, but not necessarily a scum ploy. When did Koba allegedly message Marky Mark?

N1.

[VP Baltar]

So Flavor is claiming Loyal Friendly Neighbor (which was somewhat obvious yesterday), but the Detective was NK’ed and not them? How does that make any sense? So Flavor can form an impenetrable Town core, and the Scum kept them alive?

I see a couple options.

1) Detective is a bigger immediate threat. Either the possibility of a straight guilty or soft confirm on someone like me who is town but would be an obvious target.

2) FL is scum here with Koba.

It's worth saying that infinity did check FL N1

[VP Baltar]

Hahahahaha you sent VPB a message?

Alright, DGB please Unvote. You’re going to cost us the game.

You want me to unvote Mark?

Yes. And vote Koba.

why

Koba appeared to soft that they had sent me a message. Go back and read it. They are hard claimed to be a Simple Mailman who messaged Marky Mark, who has now revealed to be a PR and most likely Watcher or Voyeur or whatever the role is that sees what happens to someone that is targeted. I’m Vanilla I’m hard claimed. So they stopped softing the notion that they sent me a message and decided to not hard reveal their target. It’s a ploy.

Won't we know that is fake though if no one claims a message?

We should be boxing Koba here, who is already revealed, to hard claim their target. If nobody got a message, then easily Koba can vaguely explain it away as having targeted PR and not wanting to claim who that is. This much is obvious.

Why are you certain Koba is the scum here? They could have caught Mark N1, right?

[VP Baltar]

2) FL is scum here with Koba.

That would be a risky play, no?

Yeah, but it would be kind of genius of true. It's somewhat of a closed loop. The thing that doesn't fit with that gambit is the mailman claim though

[VP Baltar]

Yeah maybe. So we should be voting between Marky Mark and Koba then no?

Maybe. I mean, if mark actually has investigative information, that would be super helpful to know.

Of course, now we also know we had an actual cop, so that makes me a little wary of Mark's claim.

[VP Baltar]

The way Koba claimed was why I was reading them as town. It just seemed really unforced, which is weird as scum if you actually had sussed Mark was a PR overnight

[VP Baltar]

Also why in the hell do I even try this if I’m Scum. I would either bus Marky Mark if they’re my Partner or something, and NK Flavor. I already had Koba believing I’m Town, and clearly VPB is in a much worse spot than I am and could have easily persisted there.

I also never NK Infinity who very clearly was not going to investigate me.

But infinity could have investigated an Andres!scum buddy, right? Idk if that logic holds up.

I agree that I'm the easy push today though. Was fully expecting it tbh.

[VP Baltar]

But c’mon VPB you must now you look suspicious as hell.

Absolutely. I'd want to yeet me. The only defense I can point to is my sheer conviction in my reads yesterday. It would have been bad scum play to go that deep in taylor/infinity knowing what it would mean for me the next day.

[VP Baltar]

Also why in the hell do I even try this if I’m Scum. I would either bus Marky Mark if they’re my Partner or something, and NK Flavor. I already had Koba believing I’m Town, and clearly VPB is in a much worse spot than I am and could have easily persisted there.

I also never NK Infinity who very clearly was not going to investigate me.

But infinity could have investigated an Andres!scum buddy, right? Idk if that logic holds up.

I agree that I'm the easy push today though. Was fully expecting it tbh.

They had already claimed who they were going to investigate. And I remember it being A50 though I’ll go back and look. So unless I’m strictly Partners with Marky Mark/the Target, what was I afraid of?

That's assuming you'd believe they were telling the truth about the target, right?

Plus if he targeted town, that gives that person more credibility in thread. Seems a bigger risk than a FN. It's all WIFOM though

[VP Baltar]

Clarification: multitasking mailman

Well well

[VP Baltar]

Okay so that multitasking part is clearly Scum yeah?

Doesn't look great. Though I also don't love DGB not claiming a message if they got one

[VP Baltar]

Mark FL Koba all scum in that case

Huh?

[VP Baltar]

Mark you need to full claim please

[VP Baltar]

I am town no matter what fuckery is going on.

I don't think we yeet you today either way.

[VP Baltar]

Koba needs to die. And depending on what that flips, we decide where to go next. I’m guessing that’ll put Flavor/DGB in a horrible spot.

Waiting to hear from Koba, but this seems the right play.

Can you walk me back to why you suspect DGB suddenly? Because she didn't claim the message?

[VP Baltar]

Because she was the target of the message yes. I think it’s one of the few ways Scum can communicate. Which is why DGB and Flavor have been the targets.

Interesting. So you think they don't have night talk either?

[VP Baltar]

Can you walk me back to why you suspect DGB suddenly? Because she didn't claim the message?

No one is supposed to claim receiving a message until Koba says so.

What's the message?

[VP Baltar]

Because she was the target of the message yes. I think it’s one of the few ways Scum can communicate. Which is why DGB and Flavor have been the targets.

Interesting. So you think they don't have night talk either?

I would guess so.

That’s also why Koba reveals the PR during the day.

Hmmmm. That's very cripple scum though isn't it?

We have two investigatives. I mean, unless there are four scum perhaps

[VP Baltar]

Unless the mail establishes the PT for the scum to talk in maybe? Though a mechanic like that seems outside of normal

[VP Baltar]

cute. andres successfully got everyone to claim night actions so mark could guilty me easily lol

Not everyone has even been in the thread though...

[VP Baltar]

its moreso it was really obvious i messaged DGB bc i insisted on mark claiming and andres wouldnt stfu about me claiming first

I'm not following this. Mark claimed first like you wanted. How does that implicate Andres in anything?

[VP Baltar]

its moreso it was really obvious i messaged DGB bc i insisted on mark claiming and andres wouldnt stfu about me claiming first

I'm not following this. Mark claimed first like you wanted. How does that implicate Andres in anything?

because mark was able to claim safetly after a bunch of people hardclaimed info.

although maybe thinking it back its probably just a mechanical play from a scum investigative that knew where i was going. idk at this point. feels like the same shit like when u guiltied me in our last normal

Hm.

I mean, our game was Xylo and I was directly guilting you to win that day. If that's the case here, seems risky since we'd flip you and then know for sure Mark was lying tomorrow, right?

[VP Baltar]

That feels like a very big brain play when taylor was saying Mark!scum spaghettied all over himself last time. Why isn't Koba just scum here, FL?

[VP Baltar]

That feels like a very big brain play when taylor was saying Mark!scum spaghettied all over himself last time. Why isn't Koba just scum here, FL?

Why would ScumKoba send a message to DGB when that was the dedicated confirm action slot?

Idk. If they assumed Mark was just a voyeur, that wouldn't be a threat.

Pedit - Koba, are you saying scum saw DGB deliver your message?

[VP Baltar]

If Kkoba and I were scum, Andres would have been the fade yesterday.

Why is that?

Also, I don't think you both have to be scum here. That's what is confusing me about your all in that this is some elaborate gambit

[VP Baltar]

So you sent her the rolling stones lyric

[VP Baltar]

koba's message to me was super town

Elaborate please

[VP Baltar]

They knew Marky would see him or they wanted to catch out Mark for not seeing them? Scum doesn’t target DGB here knowing Marky could ever possibly see them.

That true Koba?

[VP Baltar]

They knew Marky would see him or they wanted to catch out Mark for not seeing them? Scum doesn’t target DGB here knowing Marky could ever possibly see them.

That true Koba?

yes, its even part of my message that this was my intent.

DGB, confirm?

[VP Baltar]

Can we claim what the message said?

DGB should state the message

[VP Baltar]

Koba are you claiming Multitasking Mailman now? Meaning you lied about your claim, outted Mark as a PR, has a role that fits only as a Mafia (NRG would tell the designer to just make it a Mailman).

Why are we not killing that.

Why would Koba target DGB knowing that Marky was going to target there?

I think this confirms Marky Mark is lying.

Why would town!Koba assume mark was telling the truth about being a voyeur/watcher etc?

[VP Baltar]

They knew Marky would see him or they wanted to catch out Mark for not seeing them? Scum doesn’t target DGB here knowing Marky could ever possibly see them.

That true Koba?

yes, its even part of my message that this was my intent.

Lol wtf Koba. This message implies you believed mark was a watching/voyeur type role.

So did you or did you not believe his claim?

[VP Baltar]

They knew Marky would see him or they wanted to catch out Mark for not seeing them? Scum doesn’t target DGB here knowing Marky could ever possibly see them.

That true Koba?

yes, its even part of my message that this was my intent.

i didnt. i thought that was specifically why mark was trying to force infinity to target a specific person.

These two messages are stating exactly opposite things. I don't understand how you say both of them within a few posts of each other if your thoughts on it were clear to you

[VP Baltar]

They knew Marky would see him or they wanted to catch out Mark for not seeing them? Scum doesn’t target DGB here knowing Marky could ever possibly see them.

That true Koba?

yes, its even part of my message that this was my intent.

i didnt. i thought that was specifically why mark was trying to force infinity to target a specific person.

These two messages are stating exactly opposite things. I don't understand how you say both of them within a few posts of each other if your thoughts on it were clear to you

what was clear to me?

Whether you believed Mark had voyeur/watcher abilities when you performed your night action on DGB.

[VP Baltar]

Given the specificity of Mark’s claim, there’s no universe where both Koba and Mark are Town. I am really deeply skeptical of the idea that the Scum Team all revealed themselves to us right here right now. That’s not happening.

If this was one day further, then I would argue against this, but I think Kkoba was the best chance for scum to try and fade today if they could because it gives them an extra misfade option. It doesn’t matter if one of them went down from pushing because they still move onto the next day, and they get to kill me afterwards.

This would leave a situation where Koba flips town, I get killed, Marky gets faded, they kill...let’s say Andres?

The final 5 is Jackson, Not Mafia, DGB, VPB, A50.
2 of those are scum in that world, likely this world, and that leaves them just needing 1 fade, even if they end up going down that day, they still need just 1 fade. They could even no kill to leave more options.

Ok, let's assume this is true. Someone had to put Mark up to that fake claim, right? I would have been an easy yeet today

[VP Baltar]

.

why not FL?

From your message you are 100% town to me.

From behavior today, also Andres.

No one is as town as you two, for me.

Lol if koba is town, then FL is CONFIRMED town

[VP Baltar]

saccing oneself to get ur other 2 buddies into lylo is always a good strat if you have them setup. like look, we seriously dont know who mark's partners feasibly could be other than maybe andres

I wanna see A50 post and Jackson catch up before we end the day.

As DGB said, it's late. I'm gonna go to sleep and be back in the morning.

[VP Baltar]

Are you pocketing me and trying to get DGB to go after me?

No. I was trying to figure out where DGB stood on you then. It felt odd to me to see her say you were feeling better but then to still be voting you.

[VP Baltar]

I'm also seeing a possible DGB/DKK pairing, which could explain why DGB went on to Gera here, as that's a wagon that could gain steam, and I feel like Dkk is likely the scummiest, most likely to get momentum on them as either alignment coming up, so if DGB senses that too, and is partners with Dkk, Gera push is incredibly strong, especially because DGB couldn't stay on me due to if they are scum, them having to do a hell of a lot of work on Day 1 to fight because of circular reasoning.

a theory, though. If they are the scum team, that is what is happening right now.

Fuck

This realization was in real time, correct? (The original I mean). You weren't thinking this over N1?

[VP Baltar]

Are you pocketing me and trying to get DGB to go after me?

i consider this VP claiming scum

If you considered that, wouldn't you have been calling me scum since D1 or whenever that post was from?

[VP Baltar]

I dunno, maybe

There is a lot of uncertainty from you in this game that I find uncharacteristic. Other than predicting town flips after you push on people of course. :/


I was thinking about the game state as I was falling asleep last night, and part of me thinks flipping mark here is the higher reward play. If he flips scum, we essentially get two players who are confirmed town going into the night. That is two kills scum have to make over the next two nights, which should hopefully give us enough time to figure out buddies.

I will say that I find FL's Andres theory very complex. I want to reread all of today again, since it was around midnight when I was catching up and I may have missed some of the subtlety. But overall it felt like andres-mark is a complex scum combination, as opposed to something like mark-dgb-???, which feels more traditional. Also, andres' anger feels fairly genuine here, if a bit erratic at the start of the day

[VP Baltar]

Mark- DGB? You got to be kidding.

I am indeed not kidding

[VP Baltar]

I townread Tayl0r a lot yesterday.

Yes, after she was pushed to L-1 a couple times and it seemed like a good flip for the day. I mean, I know I was getting played by the scum yesterday, so it's got to be someone.

[VP Baltar]

Still want VP

you mean today?

[VP Baltar]

Yup

The most yikes take. I'm assuming you haven't read today?

[VP Baltar]

I am saving 13 pages for later

Ok. Well it is Mark or Koba today due to claims. Let us know your thoughts when you're caught up

[VP Baltar]

Mark, what is your read on FL and andres out of the exchanges today?

[VP Baltar]

Infinity dying over the FN

I think andres made this argument earlier. I just don't get it. Killing the detective seems like a much smarter move for the scum, compared to the low risk of keeping a FN alive for another day.

[VP Baltar]

Part of me thinks we should try to hit correctly today. I think my slot may need to be limmed at some point given I look like trash after infinity/taylor. I know that's a miselim, so if it has to happen, I'd rather we don't lose the game on that. That would me hitting correct today is more important.

pedit -- I would add to that andres that we certainly don't have a town detective, town role watcher and town friendly neighbor. That's way too much confirmed town imo. Only outlier is if there are four scum and this game is a race for town investigatives to solve before surprise Xylo.

[VP Baltar]

That would me hitting correct today is more important.

That would mean...

[VP Baltar]

FL are you townreading andres now?

[VP Baltar]

FL are you townreading andres now?

Yes.

I mean, I am too, which is making it harder for me to believe Marky scum here. The problem is that now that Taylor is dead, I believe her Mark is still learning good scum play. His immediate counter claim (if fake) of koba seems like very good scum play, doesn't it? He's either getting coaching if scum, has really advanced his play, or is actually the town person here.

Of the players left alive, DGB and andres seem like the only people who could big brain that plan (though I don't know much about A50 or NM's scum play to be fair).

If I believe andres is town, scum equity does seem higher between DGB-koba than DGB-mark.


As I type this, IDK where I'm even going with it...I just have this gut feel this is a complicated play for scum Mark.

[VP Baltar]

oh right, jackson. forgot about that one. hmm

[VP Baltar]

Hold up. Why weren't you immediately trying to lim Mark when he was softing he was a watching type role then, NM?

[VP Baltar]

So a doctor voyeur would see anyone who visits who they protect?

[VP Baltar]

Here comes the partner to try and discredit the easy target

nah, answer the question.

[VP Baltar]

Can someone who is not me ask the same exact question to NM? I'm not interested in a dumb back and forth about whether he should answer a legitimate question.

[VP Baltar]

Not Mafia is trolling VP before your eyes, how is he not agreeing?

I wouldn't say trolling so much as not answering why he wouldn't suspect mark immediately on D2 given it would be a direct conflict with his own claimed role. Also, why not protect Infinity last night since he was town reading them and scum reading me?

[VP Baltar]

you think town!NM ever does the optimal move?

that's some pretty shit play though. As opposed to a Marky-NM scum pair, which makes a lot more sense.

I don't have experience with NM though.

[VP Baltar]

Not Mafia is trolling VP before your eyes, how is he not agreeing?

I wouldn't say trolling so much as not answering why he wouldn't suspect mark immediately on D2 given it would be a direct conflict with his own claimed role. Also, why not protect Infinity last night since he was town reading them and scum reading me?

Are you trying to say Infinity was a more likely kill than I was last night? That could have influenced scum decision if they thought a protective would be on me.

Andres scum mightve wanted to leave me alive, but I don't see any other team wanting to keep my alive, unless they felt they had to kill Infinity.

I've covered this a couple times, but I think the risk of keeping Infinity alive today would be great than you, given ifinity could get a straight guilty or lend town cred to a highly suspected player like myself by investigating.

Whereas keeping you alive one more day is a risk in terms of your skill at the game, but less so in terms your "confirmed' status.

It may come down to what they thought you were implying your modifier was? If they thought you were loyal, that's a bit more risk, but still less risk that a guilty.

I also think killing infinity just makes me a much easier misyeet target.

[VP Baltar]

I am typo city today. sorry

[VP Baltar]

vp i dont think the stall u have on this wagon is a good look bc i believe rn at least one scum is off wagon

I mostly don't want to end the day without hearing from A50. I logistically think Mark is the right yeet today, but I don't think we should let A50 have another day of zero responsibility.

[VP Baltar]

y'all can blame not mafia if this is wrong. I tried.

[VP Baltar]

At least it should be easy for NM to catch a scum tonight allegedly.

[VP Baltar]

Do not worry i am town

hope so! Life will be much easier if that's the case.

[VP Baltar]

I’m dead tonight.

Final reads? Let's assume Mark flips scum.

[VP Baltar]

because koba would never lie to me.

[VP Baltar]

-_____-

Im going to be very annoyed at one of you trolls at the end of the game.

[VP Baltar]

DGB, you really think Mark is lying with that giant wall of stuff?

[VP Baltar]

DGB, you really think Mark is lying with that giant wall of stuff?

TMI?

It just reads genuine to me. I'll be happy to be wrong here. Seems like a lot of effort for a twilight troll though, yeah?

[VP Baltar]

Regardless of flip, I don't necessarily think yeeting Mark was a bad play today. I do however think we could have heard more from A50 and Jackson, and someone other than me could have actually pressured NM over his claim.

[VP Baltar]

I'm rereading today and quite confident andres is town here. He reads like town Andres who yolo'ed and just started voting people in the game where i was scum. It was wildly reckless and that was actually hard to manage as scum. He just came into today throwing blows.

[VP Baltar]

the impatience from you here is just not really characteristic.

I mean, no this impatience is kind of exactly what I experienced from town Andres.

[VP Baltar]

unless i did indeed hit scum pr(which i hope i didnt bc it means my reads are garbo lol)

Missed this last night, but didn't Koba later claim that DGB verified the message in her early posts? If DGB did, then koba would know at that point they had not hit a power role.

This means Mark is more likely to flip town here and DGB looks scummier if so.

[VP Baltar]

Are you claiming Voyeur?

Because voyeur doesn’t get role names like that in Normals. They get protective/investigation.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Voyeur

FL's first post after Marky's claim was a hard question on his role. I'm not sure if FL questioned Koba later, but I'll look for it.

[VP Baltar]

Okay so haha I see why Infinity died. They were checking Scum. So DGB is Scum. Koba is Scum. And they employed a gambit with Flavor who is also Scum.

Infinity dying for checking DGB is a fairly good point if Mark is town.

[VP Baltar]

Alright I just finished work again, kinda fell asleep yesterday before I got to post so I’ll do so when I get home.

You did post though in the thick of things?

[VP Baltar]

I'm out of time and didn't finish rereading all of today, but I'll finish over the night phase.

[VP Baltar]

Alright I just finished work again, kinda fell asleep yesterday before I got to post so I’ll do so when I get home.

You did post though in the thick of things?

What do you mean?

Trying to determine where you fell asleep. You were posting as the day started, but we might have missed you after Mark claimed. I didn't quite get to that point as I was rereading

[VP Baltar]

Lol

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Koba

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Koba

New town squad is me and Jackson. FL is probably scum too, but we will see if anyone backs his FN claim now.

[VP Baltar]

Lemme guess, FL will claim he tried to confirm to Andres

[VP Baltar]

Dgb-FL-koba for the solve.

[VP Baltar]

HELLO ALL I AM TOWN I WILL PROVE IT SHORTLY

Nah

[VP Baltar]

foe'd koba lel

Lol nice

[VP Baltar]

Scum buddies sitting back here hoping someone defends this flame out

[VP Baltar]

VP come back, I miss you

What a scum collapse

[VP Baltar]

Wait you actually believe their bs, that's depressing.

No, I mean FL is just spaghetting everywhere. We cool.

[VP Baltar]

Of course I'm assuming three scum.

I'd think three scum given town power.

[VP Baltar]

It's hilarious the scum team built a house of cards like this Koba. That's exactly how I lost to you! Did you learn nothing that game???

[VP Baltar]

Who would be the final scum? I'm unsure

I won't WIFOM today, but it's pretty narrow choices, right?

[VP Baltar]

Who would be the final scum? I'm unsure

I won't WIFOM today, but it's pretty narrow choices, right?

We have 2 free days now. We have time, I recommend against a mass-claim until both FL/Koba are out of the game to not give scum more information than we need to give them.

Yeah, I think that makes sense. We will keep the surprises for later.

[VP Baltar]

Third scum just hiding hoping the mod locks the thread

[VP Baltar]

I can actually see VP/FL/DK as a scum-team

Dude, don't go tinfoil on me.

It's obvious you and I are both town here given our play yesterday with the mark/Koba choice. If I was scum, I wouldn't have tried to push the wagon back onto Koba after the fail hammer on mark.

[VP Baltar]

FL, who are the scum then?

[VP Baltar]

Also, why are you so worried when we just yeeted scum?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah alright that's probably the scum-team. FL/NM/DK


@FL you literally are so bad

gtfo

this is why this surface level is scum ^ he knows he got my message, VP. he's openly trolling me because he knows I'm going to get misfaded.

Why would you even message jackson?

You said yourself, you were defending me all game and town reading me. You could see yesterday I was obviously for turning the ship and yeeting Koba.

Why not message me?

[VP Baltar]

Why is NM not scum here? He clearly was avoiding a Koba yeet.

[VP Baltar]

I mean, you've basically said everyone could be scum.

[VP Baltar]

I mean, you've basically said everyone could be scum.

This is aimed at who exactly?

FL

[VP Baltar]

and i had no clue if a50 would show up.

and Not Mafia is Not Mafia.

Both of these statements are pretty wack

[VP Baltar]

Same tho

[VP Baltar]

when ur in autowin

For real.

How's work going?

[VP Baltar]

also fun fact like 2 of my maf chat slips were genuine bc i was alive in other maf games with it at the time

I'll admit, good job drawing me into the taylor fight

[VP Baltar]

it wasn't easy

They helped me along by trying to tag team me.

Was the early role claim your idea or your partner's?

[VP Baltar]

I mean, you've basically said everyone could be scum.

There’s only like 4 options. Yes, everyone can be scum. What is the point of this?

Yeah, but some people obviously look scummier than others. It's not an equal weight situation

[VP Baltar]

u know i play anarchy bby

Haha, well good one.

I was feeling a little weird about you before that, but that completely flipped me.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Koba

Oh hi scum

[VP Baltar]

Remember when you said you were a doctor lol

[VP Baltar]

Who derailed the koba elim day 1?

You really botched it last night huh

[VP Baltar]

Meant to quote your doctor post.

Anyhow, who are the other scum here NM?

[VP Baltar]

Weird how scum didn't kill either power role at one of their last opportunities to do so

[VP Baltar]

Hey DGB, what was up with that hammer yesterday when it was clear mark was town in "twilight"

[VP Baltar]

I targetted Jackson last night, he received no such message from Flavour Leaf

Also, thoughts on his DGB?