Mini Normal 2179 | ENDGAME

[Flavor Leaf]

Math just TMI’d the fruit vendor was town.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Mathblade

[Flavor Leaf]

Fruit Vendor can just be a fruit vendor. Why are you assuming there’s more power to it? That’s possibly insanely low power. Neighborizer is also really not much town power, and can effectively cause town to lose because of a sneaky pocket possibility.

[Flavor Leaf]

Super Bowl - Math gambit going?

[Flavor Leaf]

Super Bowl claimed Fruit Vendor?

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE:

yeah ok fuck it, i buy the mason claim.

I’m a mason.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am assuming fruit vendor is scum to try to get itself townread easily.

I said my claim was scummy when I made it... I've been trying to get myself killed for ages now

pedit: I am a fruit mason

Modifiers?

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE:

yeah ok fuck it, i buy the mason claim.

I’m a mason.

No you aren’t.

I am a mason.

Two pairs of masons and neighborizer is wtf worthy.

so people see why I’m pushing Math, right

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m trolling, btw, but yeah, I don’t think they are mason.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not going down.

You’re masons with Ranny.

Interesting.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: NPOM

What I needed to hear.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM E-3 i believe.

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We should mass claim. I’ll go last

[Flavor Leaf]

I would like you to go first.

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We fade on the wagon.

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NPOM, Math, Ranny is my solve.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM, Math, Ranny is my solve.

Cool. You’re already wrong by NKA. Why would scum me kill my biggest town vouch?

Pretty sure Ranny and I solved two scum last night together just trying to find the third.

Nobody is “wrong by NKA”.

I actually think the NKA incriminates you harder.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I’m pretty much at the point, where I can tell you are scum fake claiming Masons. If i am so far off, then Titus has swooped me, but I will explain my town read later.

[Flavor Leaf]

hessian, NoPowerOverMe, MathBlade, Rannygazoo, Battle Mage

These should be the first to claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

3 have already, then we can have Alchemist, Outer, Titus,

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re not going to end game, Math

[Flavor Leaf]

BM claimed VT

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I have a reason for asking this which I would not like to divulge right now

As do I.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not letting people off the wagon claim before the remainder of the Super Bowl wagon claim

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re not going to end game, Math

Oh I am aware of that. I am either faded or dead.

Ranny and I disagreed on the third so I wanna see where NPOM takes this.

If I am anywhere on that scum team list, you are wrong, which I expect to be on the list because ScumYou needs to fade me this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Outer do not claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

You claimed VT?

Okay, Hessian, Alchemist, Outer, Titus, then I’ll claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m telling you right now, i claimed Neg utility so I would t get night killed this game early

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Outworld is VT

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I’m a Neapolitan.

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Math and Ranny are scum with one other.

Probably not NPOM, tbh

[Flavor Leaf]

Math and Ranny are scum.

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I never kill Johnny here. That proves EXACTLY why you killed them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Only thing I can think of is that you and out world are buddies

Why tie myself to them like this if we’re buddies prematurely?

I would have had to be tying myself to them from Day 1 if that were the case.

I don’t kill players who scum read me and can’t 1v1 me, i purposefully keep those slots alive.

Mathblade’s pushing surface level pushes because that’s a surface level scum kill.

I am not surface level scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Prove it, VT NOOM

[Flavor Leaf]

Like if I were scum here, I just essentially gave up here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would kill Andres, sure, I wouldn’t kill Johnny here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh no.

Surface level scum is kill me.

I think I know why you killed Johnny but I wanna see your checks and why you did each because you and NPOM and outer are in a three way triangle.

This is exactly why Math is scum.

In a game with Titus and Math alive, if I am scum here, I never risk TownMath doing something that TownTitus could pick up on.

I just don’t.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would kill Andres, sure, I wouldn’t kill Johnny here.

Checks Flavor, what night and when and what order

Waiting for the mass claim, so I can catch someone that hasn’t claimed yet out.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like sorry, if anyone thinks this is ever scum me, you’re scum or surface level.

I’m a dick, sure, but I’m not scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't give a s*** about your wifom leaf you are lying

And you would know that, why?

Because you’re lying?

[Flavor Leaf]

After mass claim, everything will be outed.

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@Titus/Alchemist - I think Alch could be scum here still, but I’m generally leaning town for both, so I hope you two who know me we’ll see exactly what I’m doing here.

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NPOM is salty I caught them lying.

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1v2ing scum right now.

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I’m not getting elimmed, good luck.

You are getting cocky because we’re the only 3 talking right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

You also TMI’d I was fake claiming, which is why you are scum.

I noticed NPOM trying to change their claim, so I tried to force them to CC me

[Flavor Leaf]

They probably role copped me or something.

[Flavor Leaf]

Theres absolutely zero reason for me to play like this if I were scum.

It just is what it is.

Like people don’t like to hear it, but i am too good at scum to be scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Battle Mage - I am reaching out to you in the hopes that you are town, which I think you are. I am not scum here. Mathblade pushed through a Super Bowl-Titus team gambit, and then you can see in their posts yesterday they realized they’d have to switch to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I already stated I was lying about my claim, which NPOM TMI’d knew about.

I was calling them out because they were planning on changing their claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM is salty I caught them lying.

I go back to this.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Battle Mage - I am reaching out to you in the hopes that you are town, which I think you are. I am not scum here. Mathblade pushed through a Super Bowl-Titus team gambit, and then you can see in their posts yesterday they realized they’d have to switch to me.

Oh I agree BM is town here too Ranny convinced me overnight.

But we elim guilties then if Outer flips town (doubt it) we have a guilty on NPOM into elo.

Win win

If you’re town, you need to read in between the lines more clearly.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Battle Mage - I am reaching out to you in the hopes that you are town, which I think you are. I am not scum here. Mathblade pushed through a Super Bowl-Titus team gambit, and then you can see in their posts yesterday they realized they’d have to switch to me.

Oh I agree BM is town here too Ranny convinced me overnight.

But we elim guilties then if Outer flips town (doubt it) we have a guilty on NPOM into elo.

Win win

If you’re town, you need to read in between the lines more clearly.

If you’re town this isn’t a time for subtlety here.

NPOM has been deliberate with word choice at the start of the game.

If you think they’re lying explain how.

You just are looking at the surface level. Look at how he was talking with Outer. He's claimed VT, right? There's zero reason for him to need any other claims. Then he immediately knew I was lying. I was actively trying to catch him out.

He was setting up to change his claim to benefit him.

I haven't been subtle. You need to read in between lines because you're looking at NPOM only on the surface level.

NPOM was the wagon Ben pushed right before, and was the vote to trip NPOM out.

NPOM was the counterwagon to Superbowl.

You are wrong if you are town MathBlade, full stop.

[Flavor Leaf]

MathBlade, if I were scum, I would be able to work you completely without a sweat. I hate to say that, but I just know your playstyle way too well at this point.

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It's specifically because I know you, not you as a player, I think you have a decent ability to obv town, which you have not here as a mason for me.

I'm a tinfoil kind of person, sure, but I do not make bad plays like this for no reason as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

after the johnny kill, after pushing you two as scum as masons, this just is obviously a gamestate created that I do not have the momentum in. This is NEVER the case when I am scum, Mathblade.

I am the puppet master of the century.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, I know I've defended scum hard before as town, but I gut read the way Outer hammered Superbowl. He actively challenged a line where someone called whoever hammered is lock scum.

Now we're in a situation, where if I'm wrong, and Outer is faded and flips scum, I'm getting misfaded. I'm like 80% sure Outer is town, and that is good enough for me to want to hard defend.

I'm a little lower with Titus.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM has been deliberate with word choice

actually, this is not even a town thing, this is a scum thing, i dont know why you are pushing this as townie.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

This has slipped by both day phases. This is the fade today.

he was setting up to change his claim, but I successfully stopped that play.

Look back at how he KNEW I was lying. He KNEW it.

There is no way a VT knows that there, and I actively was trying to catch NPOM here.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM crumbed, Math?

Then he's conf scum.

He claimed VT yesterday

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM has been deliberate with word choice

actually, this is not even a town thing, this is a scum thing, i dont know why you are pushing this as townie.

Oh no NPOM crumbed something specific imho. I want to see if it pans out.

you caught him out then.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM, you up

Vanilla Town

@Math - Prove you aren't scum then. You are actively defending someone incorrectly.

Is this a mistake on your part, yes or no?

[Flavor Leaf]

Let’s generate some noise from which we will derive associations or motives
VOTE: Non Imh

From town's perspective, there's a lot more freedom in choosing what to do, because I know I'm not going to solve the game on page 1. I just need to see content and hopefully it will make sense in retrospect.

DO YOU SEE THE PATTERNS IN THE NOISE NOW? DO YOU?

Bussing your partner in the RVS? Yeah, sure.

[Flavor Leaf]

Mathblade slipped when they tried to talk about NPOM crumbing a PR when they already claimed VT.

Mathblade replaced in yesterday and didn't know.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM, you up

Vanilla Town

@Math - Prove you aren't scum then. You are actively defending someone incorrectly.

Is this a mistake on your part, yes or no?

VOTE: Unvote

I am not sure if it’s a mistake. I can see why NPOM lies with their crumb but at the same time want them to claim to see if what I saw matched it.

I crumb harder as scum than I do town, so if they crumbed something as scum, I fail to see why if you did pick up on it, if you are town, why it couldn't be you picking up exactly what NPOM wanted you to pick up.

See what I'm talking about by looking deeper? This is the level I work at when I am scum on an extreme basic level.

Check out my scum guide if you wanna see what I do as scum, it's in my Sig.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not going to engage with FL except to VOTE: Flavor Leaf but I pose this question to everyone else: If mathblade and I are scum, whose idea was it to fake mason? Mine or Non Ihm's? Because we crumbed day 1 and that wouldn't be my style as scum. I'd want to keep myself open for different claims because I wouldn't know how to commit to a fake claim so early.

There is literally nothing in your ISO that shows you were masons prior to Mathblade showing up.

It was Maths idea.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, sure, I could be wrong. I've said that.

You pushing me here, helps me see that I'm probably not wrong.

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Like if the team is exactly NPOM, Math, and Ranny, then yeah.

Math and Ranny slots were also both getting pushed by Titus, and ScumMath NEEDS something or Titus will eventually catch them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Let’s generate some noise from which we will derive associations or motives
VOTE: Non Imh

From town's perspective, there's a lot more freedom in choosing what to do, because I know I'm not going to solve the game on page 1. I just need to see content and hopefully it will make sense in retrospect.

DO YOU SEE THE PATTERNS IN THE NOISE NOW? DO YOU?

This is not you crumbing. This is you looking into your ISO to try to look for something that could resemble crumbing. Voting a scum partner in RVS is classic newer scum move.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like if the team is exactly NPOM, Math, and Ranny, then yeah.

Math and Ranny slots were also both getting pushed by Titus, and ScumMath NEEDS something or Titus will eventually catch them.

NPOM and myself and Ranny lose in this situation. And I definitely don’t have NPOM claim a guilty here
Let’s assume for a moment you’re right and we’re scum with NPOM

Breakdown would result in one of outer or NPOM dying today (which should be the case despite how sure I am you’re scum which I am explaining to Ranny) then if we pick wrong the other dies via NK (we can’t be the NK if scum.

At that point myself and Ranny would be in a double elo. That situation is nigh on impossible. I have done some crazy claims but I don’t ever do a mason fake claim due to the tieins unless there’s a good substantial ability to sell it. If I was scum with Ranny and assume Titus town I bud Ranny to get on Titus good side

You know my scum play is get town to elim themselves.

I don't like when people say that. No you do not, day's and reads change. Don't act like it's just one single chain of things that is going to happen.

You need to trust me today on NPOM if you are town.

I will never not fade you tomorrow, and that will be game losing if you are town.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Mathblade - If I'm wrong on you, I guarantee you I will do a full reanalysis tomorrow, today, we need to go NPOM.

I am not letting him go 3 days slipping out of a fade.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can I get a list of all claims please I'm getting confused.

I would like OutworldER to go first please

I have a reason for asking this which I would not like to divulge right now

I've already claimed so there is nothing to stand in the way of out claiming now flavor.

Why are you lying leaf?

Only thing I can think of is that you and out world are buddies

And I am 100% sure leaf is lying

I'm not 90% I am literally 100%

I don't give a s*** about your wifom leaf you are lying

Don't believe a word that comes out of leafs mouth. You can thank me later for catching two scum

No Mass claim

Just went out ower and leaf and by then we should have the third one

This does not come from town VT.

[Flavor Leaf]

He was 100% setting himself up to change his claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Vanilla Town

I think targeting Titus would be a bad choice as town as she would be a likely NK target. This also makes SB9 more likely scum.

I wouldn't be against a BM wagon but I like where I am and I'm wondering why BM is focusing on me and not SB9.

I've already claimed so there is nothing to stand in the way of out claiming now flavor.[/quo

@MATHBLADE - READ MY POSTS PLEASE

he has already claimed.

You seem like scum trying to give him an out.

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I've already claimed so there is nothing to stand in the way of out claiming now flavor.

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@Titus - I need you in here. I'm going insane.

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I told you he was looking to change his claim.

Don't try an @me. I know when someone's being suspicious.

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Cause of the hammer I don't think town power role does that.

Need me to show you mulitple of my town PR games where I've done it?

I think I do it more if I am a town PR because it lowers your chance of getting Night killed.

[Flavor Leaf]

I knew exactly what you were looking to fake claim too.

This proves Outer and I are not both scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

He already claimed vanilla.

I just checked his ISO.

No, he didn't.

[Flavor Leaf]

The fact Alchemist and I are so together this game both makes me insanely happy and confident in my reads, but with a strong dark hole of anxiety and paranoia.

[Flavor Leaf]

Masons and Neapolitan don't mix. That's just conf town after conf town outed.

I don't know if I think they're scum together anymore, but I don't like Ranny looking like he's trying to save NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

Y’all make my head hurt. My NPOM read hasn’t changed.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Fine I'm town even neo.
N 2 target ower - not vanilla

Why them?

Why are you giving this claim any credibility? FL’s gambit already caught him out as lying and you said yourself Neap is too much Town power with everything else claimed. Neap claim should be equal to a scumclaim to you.


P.S. Can we not do the thing where we put ourselves at E-1 today?

I agree. There’s something fishy here.

I want to see if we can net more than one scum.

Because if we get a scum me or Ranny die and I want to find another scum first.

If you two are town, then I'd say scum is NPOM, no elim, and then one of Battle Mage/Titus. No elim just because of lurker slot, I guess it could be BM/Titus, but I generally don't think so. Alchemist might be bussing to deep pocket, I guess.

Like I said, I'll do a deep solve thing tomorrow if I'm alive.

[Flavor Leaf]

Masons and Neapolitan don't mix. That's just conf town after conf town outed.

I don't know if I think they're scum together anymore, but I don't like Ranny looking like he's trying to save NPOM.

I agree. Something doesn’t add up here.

I really want Titus to come on.

I don’t want a quick hammer of either of them.

Yeah, day just started.

[Flavor Leaf]

What doesn't add up is why leaf is so confident on town ower and why he trusts setup spec over a soft guilty.

Where's the soft guilty...?

I come across as more confident because I got the gift of gab.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have the soft guilty

You said Not Vanilla? How's that at all a soft guilty?

You did this AFTER you changed your role claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Mathblade, why did you crumb so hard yesterday to the point of practically claiming?

Because that’s how hard I usually crumb and people don’t see it. There’s a recently completed game where I was town bp weak doctor and did it in a specific way to help my top townread ABr. Here Titus was in the game and I am her literal Achilles heel and the majority of her scum reads were my slot and mason buddy. If she was town she needed to readjust as she is a vocal player, so it was designed for her specifically.

this is exactly why Math would make the mason play as scum, by the way.

I don't really think it was that incredibly thought out, but I respect the play itself, and that's how you get cleaner with them.

[Flavor Leaf]

With masons a good way to verify that claim is to look at the other suspected masons iso. They will either do a crumb or something like that to show masons. For your theory to be valid Alch it would have to be before I replaced in as Ranny mentioned masons. So scum would either have to have planned a mason fake claim before I was here. The simpler answer and the correct one is we are masons.

Ranny's posts did not help. I don't believe they did any stuff like that.

We also had an incredibly short Day 1, so this isn't true.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Mathblade, why did you crumb so hard yesterday to the point of practically claiming?

Because that’s how hard I usually crumb and people don’t see it. There’s a recently completed game where I was town bp weak doctor and did it in a specific way to help my top townread ABr. Here Titus was in the game and I am her literal Achilles heel and the majority of her scum reads were my slot and mason buddy. If she was town she needed to readjust as she is a vocal player, so it was designed for her specifically.

this is exactly why Math would make the mason play as scum, by the way.

I don't really think it was that incredibly thought out, but I respect the play itself, and that's how you get cleaner with them.

The problem with your proposition that I am scum is I would have had to have thought of it before I replaced in which would require cheating which I would not do.

Day 1 lasted like 2 days. I think you guys could have checked to make sure you didnt have any countering points, but I dont think it was a preplanned gambit.

I think that's why you think it was a safe play and why you feel the need to defend it so vigorously.

[Flavor Leaf]

What is your purpose here Flavor?

Let’s assume you’re right. You’re not but let’s consider this.

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

Shading me doesn’t help that goal. In no world do we elim anyone else.

I have a hunch as to what is happening and why you’re doing it but I need Titus on to confirm.

if it helps, I can link you to Ilicit Substances where it was me essentially keeping Cabd/Ffery hydra in a cage all game going "if you're scum, i caught you. if you're town, im locking you in a cage, and yeah, we'll just have to get past that and you'll have to solve from in there".

That could be part of it. That game ended up being us sword fighting all game, where they took turns so it'd be a fair fight, and they're honorable, but scum wasn't able to make any sort of action against us in that game.

Then Xenoblade 2 Mafia happened, and we just got to the town reading each other faster.

I have a really good Devil's Advocate Style if I'm back and forth at helping the overall gamestate kinda understand why some people are townie, and some are scummy. Like even if I'm wrong somewhere, I expect by just fighting hard, the truth will come out. We start to figure out who is correct, and that's fine, we get different sides of the game, ya know. Different pieces of the puzzle to see from.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Math - I am playing Devil's Advocate, is what I'm saying I have a hard tendency to take the opposite side, so if you are town, this is what is likely happening, and what I'm trying to have you understand from my POV.

I'm aware I could be just tunneling, but I think you should see that from my POV, there definitely is all the evidence there for me to think you could be fake mason claiming.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it's safe to say there are not two neos and we did not get opposing vanilla results

I would say so too.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Mathblade - I will HAPPILY eliminate you here. Hold up, what are you talking about?

Does anyone in this game think I would not be 100% on board and helping push it further if a Mathblade wagon was happening?

Like, I'm holding back how hard I wanna push the mason thing right now because that's just not necessary. We are creating better discussion by where we are now on someone I think is likely to be scum as well, and isn't tinfoil.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I was to fake claim mason I actually die on my sword here and set up a deep wolf.

I think people say this, but don't actually mean it, like yeah, setup for the deepwolf, but don't plan on going down.

I don't even know where I'm "discrediting you" at, I'm just talkin

[Flavor Leaf]

all in all, this is a damn good game of mafia, that's why I think I get misfaded some time this game

[Flavor Leaf]

don't confuse flavored charisma with being manipulative, that's not a button I can turn off.

[Flavor Leaf]

hol up

[Flavor Leaf]

The more you talk the more I sort it.

This is literally the point I said I was making.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Mathblade - I will HAPPILY eliminate you here. Hold up, what are you talking about?

Does anyone in this game think I would not be 100% on board and helping push it further if a Mathblade wagon was happening?

Like, I'm holding back how hard I wanna push the mason thing right now because that's just not necessary. We are creating better discussion by where we are now on someone I think is likely to be scum as well, and isn't tinfoil.

The problem is it won’t. Town you knows this.

There is a guilty on the table. Yes, I am sure you probably would be on board and push it. Ignoring the guilty for a later day just ends up pushing things down the road here. If there wasn’t a guilty to sort, you’d be correct here and we would be at each other’s throats more than likely. However it’s not the right thing.

Pedit Outworld that’s impossible Ranny is my mason buddy

Why would TownMe know that?

I don't think I've ever been in a game with you online where you were scum (i could be wrong)

[Flavor Leaf]

There is not a guilty on the table? what?

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh gosh, has this whole past page been completely misconstrued?

NPOM claimed Outer is Not Vanilla Town. That's not a guilty. That aint even a soft guilty.

Ranny's pushed and acted like Outer had already claimed Vanilla Town, and he did not. Check his ISO.

They're pushing a fake guilty and acting like it's a real guilty.

AFTER I called out NPOM for getting ready to change his claim.

I literally caught NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not liking leaf playing dumb

I am not playing dumb anywhere. There is not a guilty. You claimed he's Not Vanilla. How is that a guilty?

[Flavor Leaf]

I am always a scumbeard as town, I play that way on purpose so scum dont night kill me. You know how many games I used to get Night 1 killed. A lot.

Also, Outer and I specifically aren't scum buddies because I'd have had him claim IMMEDIATELY, and y'all know I'd have had entry planned.

Self-meta, doesnt mean anything, sure, but this is just for post game i told you so's.

[Flavor Leaf]

There is not a guilty on the table? what?

Outer not claiming here makes them look like scum here.

I don't want to claim because we already outed a shitton of info to scum.

I'm very cagey with information as Town. If multiple people start screaming at me to claim I will but right now I don't see the point when the Nea claim is contested and it's not even any sort of guilty to begin with.

Claim. You're obviously something, I think you're blatantly obvious townNewbie, in a good way?

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, I literally called out him setting up a Neapolitan gambit. You even stated Scum Neap balances the game out. TownNeo and Masons do not make sense together. That's just multiple wiggle proof confirmed town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not liking leaf playing dumb

I am not playing dumb anywhere. There is not a guilty. You claimed he's Not Vanilla. How is that a guilty?

Assume NPOM and Outer are town.

Assume Ranny and I are scum incorrectly.

Balance the setup. NPOM would have to be an odd night Neo. What would Outer be? And if this was possible why hasn’t outer claimed?

I feel like the answer should be obvious by now. He's actively not claiming even in this position. He's either an investigative or a protective. He's is a classic just past Newbie game level town player.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like you insinuate I am preventing talking, when I caused all of this stuff with my call out of you, then my call out of NPOM. We still on the avalanche I was sneaky on, I don't own the mountain.

[Flavor Leaf]

so my theory is NPOM and co thought that NPOM was going down today, so they got a fake guilty plan ready to go, which is why they wanted Outer to claim first. I saw this. I claimed when I did to try to force NPOM to claim the other. Which they did.

I do not think they knew. I think they planned on claiming the exact opposite that Outer did. We already talked about mass claiming today yesterday, i believe, so yes, scum would have thought about it.

And Outer just happens to be a PR.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ngl we’re seeing a lot of power and it’s easier for me to believe that two out of three of {FL, NPOM, Outer} are lying.

Why am I in on that?

[Flavor Leaf]

They should not have been on you, lol. It would have been amazing if one of the masons would have died because then it would be confirmed the other is town.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM literally was changing his role claim. I saw it happening, and I called him out. I even saw the EXACT play he was trying to make.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am this tied together with Outer because I caught scum who was trying to screw him over.

Outer is the biggest misfade opportunity this game had.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM was on both Superbowl and Ben.

NPOM was the one that did the vote that caused Ben to push NPOM, and then Ben self voted.

NPOM was the secondary wagon on Day 2. He was the other likely push on Day 1.

NPOM knows he wasn't long for this game. You can literally see the trail of him setting up to change his claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

I called leaf out not vice versa

No, I called you out!!

I saw you were about to change your claim, so I baited you into coming after me because I caught you.

[Flavor Leaf]

No elim is scummy

No elim is probably town because NPOM looks to try to be trying them to me now too.

[Flavor Leaf]

I called leaf out not vice versa

No, I called you out!!

I saw you were about to change your claim, so I baited you into coming after me because I caught you.

After I noted your lie

It was your lie. You noted your own lie.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not trying to push that the lying is what makes you scum. It's you the play you were using the lie for.

I lied to catch you out. You're hanging onto that fake narrative because it's all you got.

[Flavor Leaf]

What MathBlade said. Best scum can do is miselim one of us and then shoot the other, and that’s not happening. You’ll have to spend a day with one of us mechanically confirmed, unless you intend to bring us to endgame.

this is actually somewhat of a reason to fade in the masons today, then have Outer target the other. This actually gets us a confirmed town tomorrow if they are town, and solves them being scum.

Outer can BG if you flip town.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM is acting like my Neapolitan claim was serious, like that's all he has.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't give a s*** about your wifom leaf you are lying

And you would know that, why?

Because you’re lying?

NPOM is salty I caught them lying.

You also TMI’d I was fake claiming, which is why you are scum.

I noticed NPOM trying to change their claim, so I tried to force them to CC me

They probably role copped me or something.

I already stated I was lying about my claim, which NPOM TMI’d knew about.

I was calling them out because they were planning on changing their claim.

I told everyone I caught them lying.

I'm not letting people downplay my awesome catch.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Battle Mage and Titus - Like, I completely understand that they don't understand the gambit I played as a possibility of the masons can be town, but NPOM, I straight up caught he was about to change his claim. I called him out.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL, what’s your super serious no-take-backs claim

Obvious Vanilla.

That's why I claimed negative utility in addition to trying to reaction test Benha. I see that you're the type of player that might see that as weird, but like...I WIFOM scum, it's what I do. I can scum read someone one minute, townblock another, back to scum, so I always like to change it up. I claimed Negative Utility as a way for scum to think "he's claiming that as PR!, wait, that's what he wanted us to think!"

and I like to get them on that running.

I did this in Xenoblade 2, Day 2 where everyone in the game was convinced I was an Investigative, and scum killed me, and I wasn't anything special.

It's what I do.

[Flavor Leaf]

I literally caught you. You did not catch me. I understand you have to act like you caught me because you're stuck in your claim, but yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is 2 days in a row I'm having to push NPOM. This should have been the fade yesterday.

[Flavor Leaf]

This makes it look like you’re just looking for any reason to push FL.

Alchemist, why have you been chainsaw defending FL since forever?

He really has, but like, I like it, and don't think it necessarily comes from scumAlchemist? I told you guys, he might be pocketing me, and I won't be able to see it. I said that real early on, I think.

[Flavor Leaf]

Good. I am going to say this with all the kindness but all the bluntness in the world. Shut up. After a guilty you want scum to incriminate themselves.

If you’re town you’ve been bickering with scum all day and scum won’t say they’re scum. You’ve been doing this for pages. You’re only giving them an out to shade you. You’re literally harming your case here.

Nothing new is gained here. You are 1v2’ing Out and Flavor got it. What is gained with this back and forth?

If you’re right FL is good scum. You’re playing into his hands here.

Your message had been heard. Sometimes mafia is about faith.

there is no guilty.

[Flavor Leaf]

There's no credit to it aside from the fake claim which had good reasoning.

What was your reasoning? Claiming VT so you wouldn't be night killed?

You were the second wagon on both Day 1 and Day 2. You were the push of Ben before he self voted.

You were on both misfades.

You were never getting Night Killed.

This is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

this isnt even a free pass. I literally caught you. Someone who has the most experience with me in this game sees that I have caught you.

I'm like 65% sure both Titus and Battle Mage come in here and see that I have caught you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I personally think leaf is off his game

this is why it's obvious I am town.

[Flavor Leaf]

You claimed to have caught me after I counterclaimed you

my claim was me catching you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am the one being discredited. I have probably solved the entire game, and they have to target me because their gambit isn't going to work.

[Flavor Leaf]

I can already tell what Mathblade is trying to do. They're going to tie me to Titus next.

[Flavor Leaf]

this isnt even a free pass. I literally caught you. Someone who has the most experience with me in this game sees that I have caught you.

I'm like 65% sure both Titus and Battle Mage come in here and see that I have caught you.

It’s possible Titus and BM hop on and hammer but then when NPOM flips town something I am becoming more certain of, but I find that unlikely. I think Titus and Battle Mage use this time and sort people. I think Ranny and I have the game solved. But mainly just need Titus and BM to come on and confirm a few things.

This could be TMI'ing NPOM town, I guess.

NPOM town does not = FL scum. I am town regardless of what NPOM ends up flipping.

Math, Ranny, no elim is a possibility.

Like we're solving one of these issues today. We fade in NPOM or we fade in the masons.

[Flavor Leaf]

Self metaing is scummy

Self metaing is NAI

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not gonna leave Titus and Mathblade alive as scum when pushing a Mathblade is scum claiming mason push. Like, I'm bold as scum, I'm not reckless. Not on the same night that someone who had me as their main scum read dies.

That's like asking to lose if I am scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

We fade NPOM today.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not letting you guys run through a wagon like you did on Superbowl.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not gonna leave Titus and Mathblade alive as scum when pushing a Mathblade is scum claiming mason push. Like, I'm bold as scum, I'm not reckless. Not on the same night that someone who had me as their main scum read dies.

That's like asking to lose if I am scum.

You do when you’ve pocketed Titus.

Me v Titus is a known huge thing on this site.

You’re a manipulator who knows this. You’re saying what you’d not do based on meta instead of strategy.

We elim Outer today.

I'm not going to actively try to pocket Titus again. Titus town knows scumMe has pocketed her before.

[Flavor Leaf]

What's my strategy then? I'm pushing Mason claims with no gamestate control. You are acting like I have a strategy going, and I actively caught out NPOM changing his claim, a role that you specifically stated didn't make sense as town.

I'll look into reading Battle Mage, Titus, Alchemist, and no elim more, but you are wrong on me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why are you so scared of Titus and Battle Mage talking? Why are you so insistent today?

What do you mean? I'm just talking.

I think people see me as way more frantic than I am. You've seen me in person, I talk pretty much the same way. Sometimes I just sit back and troll, sometimes I don't shut up.

I think you're just reading my town incorrectly. It's been happening a lot lately, though, so it's probably just me. Everything I do is with a dry sense of sass or just passionate for the sake of having fun, ya know

[Flavor Leaf]

I want to know why fl is so invested in ower.

I think he's town, and I think you tried to fake guilty him in case you were going down today (you were).

Outer and I have been tied together on the surface level since Day 1, it is the best chance you get to take us down together.

[Flavor Leaf]

if NPOM is town, and scum is on the NPOM wagon, it's Alchemist, not Outer.

In this case, I would think it's Alchemist and the masons, and they're using my push on NPOM as a way to get more town cred.

[Flavor Leaf]

It is 100% likely.

[Flavor Leaf]

It is 100% likely.

this was in reference to you being wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

I've only seen Johnny as town once, and he was wrong with reads, and just sheeped. I don't kill off people I can beat in 1v1's. Him scum reading me and dying is why I am town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like you guys are pushing like I'm scum actively going up against Masons, and then saying "I think FL is off his game".

[Flavor Leaf]

Just let her get there, Math. Don't tell her stuff like that because now we won't be able to see if she naturally sees my play or not.

[Flavor Leaf]

I already stated I was lying about my claim, which NPOM TMI’d knew about.

I was calling them out because they were planning on changing their claim.

I have a headache.

So you're not a Neo/VT cop
NPOM objected because he knew it to be false..

Why not too much power problem?

I don't personally think there is too much problem yet without knowing scum roles, and whether or not I'm correct on both of them or not. I don't think it's the collective 3 of them.

I saw that NPOM was trying to change his Vanilla claim, so I claimed it before him to see how he'd react.

[Flavor Leaf]

also, like, Mathblade and NPOM never even considered the fact that I could be scum white knighting Outer, which is another reason I know scum is in the masons or NPOM. Like, it could be all 3, I'm not saying it's not, but it seems too on the nose for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also can see me tunneling actual Mason Mathblade because I think their logic is incorrect or their solves/pushes are scummy.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: I am neopolitan

Me: No, I am neopolitan

FL: Actually, I'm not a nepolitan, I just said that to make you change your claim.

That doesn't look opportunistic at all.

I understand that you see this as what happened regardless of your alignment.

[Flavor Leaf]

Y’all make my head hurt.

I have a headache.

Titus is confTown.

conftown me too. I've been dealing with this all night.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like if the team is exactly NPOM, Math, and Ranny, then yeah.

Math and Ranny slots were also both getting pushed by Titus, and ScumMath NEEDS something or Titus will eventually catch them.

Then how am I still alive? Why didn't I die in place of Johnny? I get the whole d1 wifom but why not d2?

Math used Johnny kill to try to push me, then tried to say I was pocketing you, so

I do think Johnny kill was used to frame me, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually do see Titus as being as alive as a point for TownMath, however

[Flavor Leaf]

I just don't know if that's always the choice they make. I can't really remember scumMath.

They said they strategize as scum, and to me, it looks like exactly what this mason claim was. They tried to act like Math would have had to strategize before replacing in, but I don't think so with how fast Day 1 went.

I also really dislike how the Superbowl wagon went at the end of the day.

[Flavor Leaf]

It may just be a happy coincidence that matches.

It could be NPOM Outer FL (my moon logic world)

The much more popular theory matches up with VCA though so I think it makes most sense

If you are implying I would ever look like scum in a game where I was scum by VCA, and Titus was town, and we were both in from the beginning, then you are scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't read games I'm not in unless a player I don't know does something cool, and even then, I just look at post game stuff.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't use meta as a main tool, it's incredibly supplementary for me, especially because everyone already changes how they act towards me if they're scum because they have to be ready for me to give them the Third Degree Boon.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't read games I'm not in unless a player I don't know does something cool, and even then, I just look at post game stuff.

I am not asking you I am asking Titus for a reason and I want her response tyvm

And I am actively trying not to let you manipulate her, and push like I am manipulating, tyvm

[Flavor Leaf]

You brought something up about me, I'm going to answer.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alchemist and the Masons make sense too

[Flavor Leaf]

We know there has to be a scum in NPOM or Outer right.

We don't know this.

It could be Alch No elim and BM in theory.

Lmao I highly doubt this. While possible that’s not probable. Town does with probable scum deal with possible. I don’t think there’s two PRs in addition to masons still. That’s just not likely.

how do you know this without knowing scum roles?

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it's safe to say there are not two neos and we did not get opposing vanilla results

So wait you and FL are both claiming Neo?

No, I saw he was about to change his claim, so I claimed Neo.

I rescinded my claim.

Then he claimed Neopolitan and that Outer was Not Vanilla Town.

Outer claimed bg

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM claimed Vanilla Town, so I saw him setting up to try and make a play, and called him out on it before he got the chance.

I think Outer is blatant just past newbietown, but still has some newbie qualities.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ranny and I tried figuring out what PRs would work and we didn’t see a whole lot.

A gated PR like an even night Neo with the current roles outed would make sense in a high power game as the odds of hitting a town PR and thinking scum are high. Makes a lot more sense than indecisive bodyguard

You literally said Neo doesn't make sense with Masons. Convenient setup spec, I'll tell you what that is.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it's safe to say there are not two neos and we did not get opposing vanilla results

So wait you and FL are both claiming Neo?

He's been playing dumb for a long time now because they're trying to act like it was a guilty on Outer.

Ranny tried to push that Outer had already claimed Vanilla Town earlier as well before that got rescinded.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it's safe to say there are not two neos and we did not get opposing vanilla results

So wait you and FL are both claiming Neo?

No, I saw he was about to change his claim, so I claimed Neo.

I rescinded my claim.

Then he claimed Neopolitan and that Outer was Not Vanilla Town.

Outer claimed bg

Any reason you are ruling out an Outer NPOM team with the intent for Outer to validate NPOM's bullshit changed claim?

Yes. I don't think the way NPOM was doing it looked like it was waiting for a partner. I could be wrong, I guess, but why would they use Outer to validate the claim? I'm the only one defending them. If anything, they knew wanted to create a scenario where I defend them, because they knew I was coming after them and the masons.

Outer and I were both on NPOM end of the day yesterday. NPOM was the secondary wagon and the possible option to NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

im back to just thinking it's NPOM and the masons.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ranny and I tried figuring out what PRs would work and we didn’t see a whole lot.

A gated PR like an even night Neo with the current roles outed would make sense in a high power game as the odds of hitting a town PR and thinking scum are high. Makes a lot more sense than indecisive bodyguard

You literally said Neo doesn't make sense with Masons. Convenient setup spec, I'll tell you what that is.

Oh no! My setup spec changes as I learn about the setup. Sue me.

except the setup spec didn't change.

It went from Neo to Neo.

[Flavor Leaf]

Neapolitan is not negative utility, get outta here right now with that mindset.

And you're logic is poor because you're pushing a fake claim by someone who you are pushing is scum with me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am getting frantic now. I need to take a break probably and come back with a fresh head.

[Flavor Leaf]

I refuse to let NPOM be the secondary wagon three days in a row. Tomorrow he will say "let me just live tonight to use my ability"

i know how that works. I've done that exact play.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, NPOM and Outer could very well be it, and I'm tunneling.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, I'm gonna trust my read on Outer.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would him claiming they targeted you have any sort of effect on your alignment?

Also, you were pushing it like it was a bad claim, now you're saying what would be happening like it was a good play. You are making things up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Has Outer taken a stance on NPOM’s claim today? Has he taken a stance the whole day? He seems pretty meek for the guy who quickhammered on a dare day 1. (Not that I was daring him, but he seemed to interpret it that way.)

Outer is voting NPOM, exactly where they should be voting.

They were there at the end of the day yesterday. Where were you?

[Flavor Leaf]

The superbowl wagon picked up and the day ended after the NPOM wagon started.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, Outer has never once stated they thought you were scum, why is it scummy of them to UNVOTE a mason?

You guys are actively misconstruing things.

[Flavor Leaf]

What scum literally claims scum? Superbowl became beyond obv town. He was actively trying to die like that, and I thought it was for AtE at first, but no scum after that Day 1 play like that.

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s a simple answer to this Titus will see.

Someone is buddying me here. Both you and FL are saying that I will magically see the game here.

FL, your NPOM plus masons doesn't work.

Math, I don't like how much pressure you're putting on me.

I am not saying you will magically see the game, I just need someone to see it, so I'm more hoping.

I see that NPOM/Masons are too on the nose. That's even more of a reason I need one of them resolved today.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alchemist sees it, but like, he's in my paranoia rearview mirror, so I need more

They never even considered I could be scum here white knighting, which is also classic me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm trying to town read Mathblade. I really am.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was only there because I pushed you yesterday.

[Flavor Leaf]

if i were informed of it, id never claim it like that.

If you are town, you just want me to be scum here. You got Flavor Fever.

[Flavor Leaf]

If NPOM is scum role cop, I have no idea who the others are. Maybe NPOM agreed to be bussed by FL last night.

no, you guys are just scum or town who wanna say they "caught Flavor Leaf", even at the expense of losing the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, Outer has never once stated they thought you were scum, why is it scummy of them to UNVOTE a mason?

You guys are actively misconstruing things.

I still think this is a great reason for the masons to get faded within them, but I digress.

[Flavor Leaf]

If NPOM is scum role cop, I have no idea who the others are. Maybe NPOM agreed to be bussed by FL last night.

no, you guys are just scum or town who wanna say they "caught Flavor Leaf", even at the expense of losing the game.

Why are you making the game about you when it’s about solving NPOM v Outer?

Just happens. I've already given mulitple reasons to why NPOM is scum. You are choosing to not see it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, Outer has never once stated they thought you were scum, why is it scummy of them to UNVOTE a mason?

You guys are actively misconstruing things.

I still think this is a great reason for the masons to get faded within them, but I digress.

The vote itself is scummy.

If he thought I was town then he naturally thinks Ranny is town. The unvote shows he’s not thinking about PRs which a BG naturally would. He’d have explained why he didn’t heal us. You can’t have him not trust and trust us at the same time which is required for your theory.

I disagree, especially since you're pushing they were scum with me. He would know more if he were scum with me, because I knew Ranny was your claimed mason yesterday, and if you think I'd be quiet in the scum PT, you're wrong.

He doesn't not trust you guys. Why would he?

Like I said, you are scum or actively wanting me to be scum this game, and you are going to cause this game to be a town loss because of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, Outer has never once stated they thought you were scum, why is it scummy of them to UNVOTE a mason?

You guys are actively misconstruing things.

I still think this is a great reason for the masons to get faded within them, but I digress.

And I’ll say again that this is exactly what scum needs. You have to fade one and shoot the other in the same day/night or else you’re stuck with us.

Everytime Ranny posts, I cringe because of how scummy and backseat driving it is.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, Outer has never once stated they thought you were scum, why is it scummy of them to UNVOTE a mason?

You guys are actively misconstruing things.

I still think this is a great reason for the masons to get faded within them, but I digress.

The vote itself is scummy.

If he thought I was town then he naturally thinks Ranny is town. The unvote shows he’s not thinking about PRs which a BG naturally would. He’d have explained why he didn’t heal us. You can’t have him not trust and trust us at the same time which is required for your theory.

I disagree, BG's should think about night kills not PR's. they can go hand in hand, they don't have to.

[Flavor Leaf]

Am I wrong though?

I'm town, so yes. I know for a fact you two are dead wrong, and it's as simple as that.

[Flavor Leaf]

You repeat things. That doesn’t make them true.

This is not productive. Good night.

The truth is just lies that haven't been repeated enough, and I would know that because the truth is just lies that haven't been repeated enough.

- Animaniacs 2020.

[Flavor Leaf]

I repeat things so people know they are true. I am town here, me saying it over and over doesn't make me not town. I have done far more than that. I've given my reads, I've given why I believe NPOM is scum. I have pointed out multiple incorrect logic and misconstruing on your part, so you pushing like I'm not doing anything else is why I'm kind of just done?

You clearly are just lockscumming me because you want to catch ScumMe, and it's just tiring. And if you are town, you got Ranny convinced, even if they think they saw it on their own.

[Flavor Leaf]

I disagree, BG's should think about night kills not PR's. they can go hand in hand, they don't have to.

But Outer claimed he didn’t do either? He just alternated between experienced players.

I would have protected both myself and Titus over your slots too, even if you guys were confirmed Mason.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, let's be honest, I wouldn't use a Bodyguard action lol

[Flavor Leaf]

If you guys are just salty because I pushed you, tough.

I had every right to think you guys might be gambiting, and you guys are poorly tunneled, so if you're scum, alright, fine, but if you guys are town, i'm extremely tired of arguing with you and pointing out every single one of your lapses in logic, and misconstruing of everything.

I can't tell.

I want NPOM because they have been the second wagon each day.

They were the straw that broke the camel's back on the Ben wagon.

They were buddy buddy with Superbowl, yet they ended up on their wagon, alongside you two, as the main ones pushing.

You guys have just been yelling and defending NPOM when it's convenient for you.

You chose yesterday's fade, I choose today's.

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL why did you push MathBlade day 2 until he said who the other mason is?

I saw what looked like a fake mason claim gambit getting setup.

[Flavor Leaf]

Math specifically didn't claim you as their partner yesterday actually. I figured out who it would have to be prior.

I could be wrong on that.

It was trying too hard to be town read by specific slots at the right correct time of Titus' 2 scum reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

Titus also wasn't on Superbowl, and then Superbowl got super rushed through. Mathblade had to do something because Titus would see them as scum.