Mini Normal 2201 | Silly Stock Photos | Endgame

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ego

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the pain of sleeping through rvs thus you cant make a good first impression

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we're massclaiming

go go go

self fruit vendor

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well shit

for the way they put you at L1, obviously

it's not about you specifically, but coming in hot like that just smells like scum thinking they had an opportunity for lolhammer potential

townie

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Beautiful day...

seriously tho, flipping anya at this point gives a +average chance of hitting scum imo lol

I think this is true early but I dont think its for the same thing you do

Vote Anya

Continued extension of RVS just moving around doing nothing is anti-town at best. Seems pretty clear that at least a third of the game already thinks this is true (RVS is over) so we should just start being productive. Coming from an era where deadline was normally n2+1 this is an absurdly fast game so lets start going.

ur such a square

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> "this is scum"
> *votes with said scum*

My vote was RVS. You need to calm down.

mild overreaction

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you don't get to tell me when rvs is over

VOTE: Llama

Okay now I really like the Anya vote. She just ignored a ton of content and threw out a pretty heavy OMGUS/Sheeping vote at the same time.

unstoppable force meets immovable object

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Llama is scum because the way he went about trying to push the game out of RVS felt overdone and performative

Its pretty well established that I dont like RVS. Its the boring and unproductive part of the game to me so I want it to end ASAP so we can actually focus on doing stuff. Are you saying it would have been better if I just voted Anya and then kicked back and waited for everyone else to decide the "not doing much" portion of the game was over?

i dont really see how goofing off in the beginning of the game is really that harmful, theres 10 days, we can spare some time to get situated and greet everyone before we play properly

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Im old (probably twice as old as someone in this game) and a side effect of that is occasionally work/other life commitments destroy any semblance of free time for a day or two. 10 days is nothing as far as im concerned being from the era of D1 normally being three weeks.

ive played games with three week day phases and ive played games with 72 hour day phases, and im of the opinion rvs is objectively beneficial to town

content doesnt appear out of thin air, rvs is a necessity

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llama, for someone so determined to get us moving out of rvs and into The Serious Game... you've expressed one (1) read so far.

I really hate this post

looks fine to me
its probably the elipsis thats bugging you out

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VOTE: Infinity 324

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Were all old whippersnappers here

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or hes just, town? doing what town would do?

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could be

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basically I see a whole TvTvT shitfight on the last few pages with the exception of Rathe who I don't like.

Can you elaborate as to what leads you to conclude that there was a bunch of Town fighting other Town? Which players specifically are you talking about?

I’m guessing Llama and Datisi are two of them, yeah? Who is the third?

probably anya?

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I would need to read Student Council again but I think this kind of buddying (perhaps the wrong word but the stuff in 138, 154, and 158) is normal for Infinity? I don't see a reason to be suspicious of it regardless.

The Llama/Datisi thing reads as TvT to me. I don't think either party puts themselves out there like this as scum. I don't see a lot of reason for scum to want to end RVS early and Rathe trying to push Llama for that does not exactly give me good feelings about that slot.

VOTE: Rathe

do you know if its contradictory to their scum meta? genuine question
but besides that their general smug nature pings me pretty heavily

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It got my attention because I thought it was a really bad 'case' but I couldn't make up my mind whether it was a scummy one.

umlaut town
this would be a silly thing to fake

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basically I see a whole TvTvT shitfight on the last few pages with the exception of Rathe who I don't like.

Can you elaborate as to what leads you to conclude that there was a bunch of Town fighting other Town? Which players specifically are you talking about?

I’m guessing Llama and Datisi are two of them, yeah? Who is the third?

Llama, Datisi, and Infinity. Llama and Datisi interacting in ways that I don't see scum doing, and from what I remember of Student Council Infinity is playing to his town meta here and I just think in general that scum aren't likely to take these fights this early in the game.

I don’t really like this take

I think Llama’s early stance is slightly Town-indicative, but why do you think Datisi wouldn’t play the way he has as scum? I’d like a little more elaboration on that part

In general you’re talking about three of the most experienced players in this game so I’m not sure why you don’t think they’d take a fight early in the game? It wasn’t really much of a fight either imo

seconded

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i'm actually starting to think anya is town lol

her posts are so free of care, literally giving no shits and i love it

i don't think that comes from scum

thats just mu players in general

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Oh I forgot about Momrangal, she is my strongest TR atm

why momrangal? im interested more in why shes your strongest rather than why shes town fyi

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Spoiler: .

Im hiding behind ending the RVS by being assertive in trying to end RVS?

no not the same i said i think u r doing the opposite
instead of hiding behind rvs u want to move out cuz its what town would do

It almost feels like you are saying "He is scum because he is trying to do town things" which is pretty much exactly what town does... unless you are trying to argue that as town I would have just well enough alone and let RVS continue? This feels more like you are attacking my game theory and playstyle than you are saying what I am doing is scummy.

no i dont get into all that stuff its confusing

rathe basicly says that he believes scum like to hide behind RVS, then proceeds to scumread llama

for pushing the game out of RVS

he even says that he thinks that is what town would do

yet comes to scum!llama conclusion

i think that leads to a higher VI potential rather than newb scum making that push personally, theres a much much higher chance of rathe being town

rathe basicly says that he believes scum like to hide behind RVS

this never happened.

"you're just doing what town would do" is not the same as "i think town (and only town) would do that"

that is a bad case yeah

this is very defensive towards rathe datisi

ah yes, the classic "if you disagree with me you're suspicious"

is townconeum really thia dense

i'm here wondering if towntisi really wants to defend this so hard

It got my attention because I thought it was a really bad 'case' but I couldn't make up my mind whether it was a scummy one.

umlaut town
this would be a silly thing to fake

Why would it be a silly thing to fake, he had to come up with some sort of explanation because I asked him about it

when scum!umlaut 'changes his mind' on how he views rathes push he would have had an explanation already cooked up

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when scum!umlaut 'changes his mind' on how he views rathes push he would have had an explanation already cooked up

I asked the question because it's not something I thought scum would be expected to ask. Sometimes as scum it takes me a bit to think about how I would react to something as town, and my original reaction to something is harder to justify. Whereas as town, I've seen the "strange but not scummy" push a lot so I automatically view it as towny, and I don't need to go back and think about it. I did think umlaut had a pretty good and quick response, and maybe I'm projecting, but it's something that pinged me at first. Lmk if something needs to be explained better

yeah that makes sense
i may have passed it off as something im way more confident in than i actually am in reality, but it gave townie pings for me

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how many on icon?

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Oh, and happy birthday, zoomer!

thanks!

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funnily enough hardly anyones on icon
i can sheep this
VOTE: icon

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i mean im in this constant ‘weird catchup mode’ cus theres almost always no one on when i am

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also thanks

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Niece and Nephews have just left the house. I'm drained but going to try to contribute. I skimmed most of it then saw that Fluff @'d me to give reads on Ico/Dats/Rathe so I went back and read that.

To be frank, I think Ico's stubborness is probably town and his shade onto Datisi looks more like town confbiasing (in a manner that I actually run into myself from time to time) than trying to chain elims. Datisi also looks like they're genuinely just trying to iron out a misconception, although I don't think it's AI either way.

Also going to unvote Rathe because I realized I SR'd and voted them for something I do myself as town (early game tinfoiling). There are still pings there but it's not anything I feel like pursuing anymore. UNVOTE:

Infinity where's your Umlaut and Samantha reads coming from? There's a few questions here and there but I don't recall anything from your ISO that really gave clear insight there.

confbiasing and attempting to accuse someone of chainsawing for no reason is a bit different

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Just to explain my vote really quickly - there’s a strategic component to it (I find it interesting that so many votes piled onto Iconeum when samantha was the leading vote getter; and Anya found a new home immediately after the vote count came out showing that). But also, does anyone see a solving mindset behind any of Samantha’s posts? They theorized from early in the game that Datisi and Luca were Scum Partners basically, and then have made two votes, one that shows some interest in survival (by voting their largest counter wagon). Not only that, but they asked Datisi (part of their “solve” to vote Rathe with them).

mate ive tried before to get content out of town!samantha and i learned i shouldnt have

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the pain of sleeping through rvs thus you cant make a good first impression

> "this is scum"
> *votes with said scum*

My vote was RVS. You need to calm down.

mild overreaction

you don't get to tell me when rvs is over

VOTE: Llama

Okay now I really like the Anya vote. She just ignored a ton of content and threw out a pretty heavy OMGUS/Sheeping vote at the same time.

unstoppable force meets immovable object

i had a couple early small scumpings from you, mostly based on these posts

the first one shows you wanted to make a good impression, which I related to *omg only scum are worried etc*

the second and third ones lacked a conclusion and are just generix statements...

are you scum here?

what conclusions am i supposed to have there? like legit whats the problem there?
first off the third post is a joke
second, generic statements arent an issue imo as its me saying my immediate thoughts
if you want me to draw a conclusion on andres alignment from that one small post you gotta lower your expectations cus i am not that good

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confbiasing and attempting to accuse someone of chainsawing for no reason is a bit different

your latest post as well

what do you think of it, more then 'it's different'?

implying i severely dislike it
this ‘youre sus if you disagree with me’ attitude you had against datisi was scummy
rather than attacking the argument you attacked the player by trying to discredit him

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and funnily enough youre doing the same thing with me as well

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like, it's easy to make generic statements like 'this is different' and 'this is an overreaction'. It doesn't tell me what *you* feel about the post. If you are gonna quote something and make a remark, i'd expect it to mean something to you yeah?

It reads like you are trying to appear busy, but ur not actually sorting.

its very deceitful to make me look like im faking/forcing content by isolating three posts of my entire iso

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i don't find Icon's Rathe case wolfy i think it's fair even if surface (if not basement) level

but i DO find the reaction to Dats weird where Dats is explaining to Icon that he's misinterpreting Rathe's post and Ico characterizes it as

defending

LOCK HIM UP

^this
theres a huge misrepresentation that the icon wagon is about his rathe push

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@OutWorldER what do you think of the fact that Ico and Samantha are our leading vote getters so far?
@Mom same question to you.

Ico's wagon seems to be built on Town looking at a bad case and not really thinking beyond that, outside of Samantha's vote which is just lol.
Samantha was a wagon I was inclined to say was just low-hanging fruit but recent developments make me think the slot is just scum.

example A

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I read his iso and there are too few posts

he should comment on more things

lol

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confbiasing and attempting to accuse someone of chainsawing for no reason is a bit different

your latest post as well

what do you think of it, more then 'it's different'?

implying i severely dislike it
this ‘youre sus if you disagree with me’ attitude you had against datisi was scummy
rather than attacking the argument you attacked the player by trying to discredit him

saying 'this is different' can literally go both ways… for good or for bad

i never actually scumread datisi, it is part of an ancient ritual so old that it that rivals time itself… did you see that datisi is townreading me currently? There's a reason for that.

I don't think i ever tried to discredit anyone this game.

regardless you were shading him

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and funnily enough youre doing the same thing with me as well

what am i doing to you exactly do you think?

if the answer is sorting, then DING DING DING you are correct

at its best its omgus

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rathe basicly says that he believes scum like to hide behind RVS

this never happened.

"you're just doing what town would do" is not the same as "i think town (and only town) would do that"

that is a bad case yeah

this is very defensive towards rathe datisi

is townconeum really thia dense

i'm here wondering if towntisi really wants to defend this so hard

but like

if ur scum defending, then it's probably only *with* rathe so yeah

ok fine

i'm arguing my pov a bit too strong here, but you are overly defending someting that shouldn't be defended quite that hard

i'll take a draw here

this is all shade

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like, it's easy to make generic statements like 'this is different' and 'this is an overreaction'. It doesn't tell me what *you* feel about the post. If you are gonna quote something and make a remark, i'd expect it to mean something to you yeah?

It reads like you are trying to appear busy, but ur not actually sorting.

its very deceitful to make me look like im faking/forcing content by isolating three posts of my entire iso

i asked about specific posts that I got pings from, do you have a problem with that? You seem agitated that i'm questioning a couple of your posts here

it depends on the argument you are trying to make my choosing them, this specific one is an example of an argument you cant make when cherrypicking posts

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so i ask you a couple questions about a few posts you made, and you think that's me OMGUS'ing you?

im not convinced that you suddenly go after the weakest player on your wagon with disingenuous arguments because you so innocently wish to solve me

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@zoomer

what exactly are my so-called disengenous arguments?

i have in fact pointed them out
deceitful might be a better word but regardless

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{datisi, llama}
{Luca Blight, samantha97, Rathe, andres, umlaut}
{momrangal, anya, infinity}
{Iconeum, Outworld}
{}

Icon - I liked their reaction to Anya putting Datisi on 'L-1,' it seemed genuine. I dislike their argument tactics, attacking the player and not the argument by discrediting them and making unfair points, but I can see a world where town does do this so I'm only scumleaning them.

Luca - I think generally they've had a protown outlook towards this game, at the very least they're playing fairly similar to how they were in a prior game I had with them.

samantha - The juxtaposition of their filler vs. AI content lines up with how they played in mini normal 2193, they make content on their own terms regardless of pressure and generally it's helpful content.

momrangal - they haven't really stuck their head out much for making reads which i dont like but i like how active they are in trying to get other peoples opinions.

datisi - his reactions to icon pushing rathe were very genuine and his motivations seem townie, don't see scum!datisi being the white knight for icon

rathe - their llama push isn't a push that even noob scum would make, i believe i said it before but i see high VI potential here, no offense.

anya - im gonna straight up be low effort and say i have no idea how to read her, they've made posts i can agree with but there's nothing that clicks for me as town or scum in there, she can flip either way and i wouldnt be surprised

llama - their argument about leaving rvs asap isnt ai per se however the way they argued against people who disagreed with them is townie, no nonsense vibe and i like it, reads very genuine. they make very convincing arguments and none of their posts seem forced.

outworld - the post about there being a 'tvtvt shitfight,' doesn't sit right with me as it reads as if they're trying to prevent anything from getting done, arguments are healthy for the gamestate and anyone trying to prevent it pings me a little, their read on infinity also seems super low effort which i dont really like either

andres - they're no nonsense like llama but in a different way, they will pick apart any post to try and find something AI in them, it's a townie mindset

infinity -

So... im being too authoritarian? You really arent explaining anything that I can actually answer. Essentially you are just saying "because gut"

Get used to it My gut might change, but in the meantime you'll have to accept me scumreading you

don't like this post
theyve played very safely which is off however town can very easily do that subconsciously, nullscum

umlaut - very confrontational playstyle, i agree with a lot of their points, their arguments are rational and convincing, can someone tell me why this is a wagon?

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don't see scum!datisi being the white knight for icon

this is a very, very bad reason to townread me bc wk-ibg iconeum is my go-to approach as scum lol

what about umlaut is confrontational to you? he feels very safe-ish to me so far.

to get more specific you were the one who sparked the icon wagon whether intentional or not which makes me view you townreading icon as town!you's behavior
its unnecessarily complicating things to not coast on icons wagon, for scum!you that is

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Spoiler: .

I wouldn’t be surprised if one of those votes for Iconeum is Scum fueling a fight between Town in Rathe, Iconeum. I do TR Rathe actually. Iconeum? Much harder to say.

This is an oddly specific hypothesis about what scum are up to given that you can't even say whether the two people "scum [are] fueling a fight between" are both town

Infinity, I think there's a distinction between being serious and tryharding that you're failing to make here; as far as I know Llama never claimed to be putting forth an extraordinary effort, just to be posting and voting seriously and expecting others to do the same.

llama, for someone so determined to get us moving out of rvs and into The Serious Game... you've expressed one (1) read so far.

I really hate this post

spicey. tell me more.

It reads as disingenuous. How many reads do you think someone has to express to qualify as serious?

llama, for someone so determined to get us moving out of rvs and into The Serious Game... you've expressed one (1) read so far.

I really hate this post

I agree with Mom that the Llama wagon is nonsense, at least.

Normally when someone scumreads me I have some inkling of an understanding of why even if I think the reason is bad, but I have no idea what Mom is on about here.

VOTE: llamafluff

maybe town like having fun n being goofy

This is a reason to vote someone?

i personally view these as pretty confrontational

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@zoomer In case you're annoyed that I'm not engaging you on umlaut, I don't really have much to say about it? I don't think the thinks you pointed out were confrontational enough to be towny, and generally I feel like most other players have towntold or at least given me a towny vibe

I'm also down to wagon llama, especially if mom SRs him

nah im not that petty to be annoyed
so youre on the wagon to get content out of him?

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also im mad hungry what should i get at subway

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also im mad hungry what should i get at subway

chicken

yea thats what i was thinking too

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also im mad hungry what should i get at subway

chicken

yea thats what i was thinking too

that's sick dude

mindmeld

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nah im not that petty to be annoyed
so youre on the wagon to get content out of him?

No I think he's scummy because he hasn't towntold

what would you look for in a towntell? id say hes played roughly how a town member should

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Depends on the player, for a lot of players it's just vibes, ico had what I thought was a particularly towny push, samantha is now showing a nonchalant reaction to their wagon which I see as towny

I don't like townreads that are "oh this person hasn't done anything scummy" because I find that scum can play like that pretty easily especially on d1

i mean im not super confident in him being town but if a player isnt behaving like scum and is playing as town should (and im more specific about how town generally plays in the little blurb i made of him) i personally believe they should be given the benefit of the doubt and atleast be given a townlean

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I have a reason to townlean every player besides llama and umlaut

and i dont so i can make these kinds of reads lmao

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I'm not saying you have to have my read, I'm just trying to explain my position

right, somehow the original point of this discussion got convoluted in my brain and i thought it started off with you saying my reasons were weak
that or i jumbled you together with datisi

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ty i try my best

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the subway was fucking bomb for those wondering

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gut tells me something aint right
VOTE: Outworld

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10v3 would be a safe bet

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thats what happens when everyone collectively conspires to be v/la on the weekend

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their vote on rathe was weird, seemed incredibly opportunistic to push them because he made a bad read, low-hanging fruit type shit, it looks like they jumped the gun a bit early because they silently backpedaled when they saw public opinion wasnt on their side after that datisi v icon shitfight.
i didnt originally vote them for this but theyve showed zero reaction to the wagon forming on them besides when datisi said luca would be their partner if they're scum.
the take they had on you v datisi v infinity is a nothing post and doesn't sit right with me, acting busy.

im gonna walk back my claim on their infinity read being suspiciously low effort and weak as that's an admittedly unfair observation however they do seem weirdly insistent on that specific read

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their progression on samantha feels fake also

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mind you i wouldnt be stunned if i got it wrong and it is samantha here

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their progression on samantha feels fake also

Which part? The biggest surprise to me from their Samantha vote was that they actually werent voting there to start.

the part where it doesnt exist
their interest in scum!samantha suddenly appears after they were asked for their opinion on them, which to tinfoil a bit, comes conveniently after they backpedal their rathe read.

they make one post quoting samantha, calling them out on a random nothing post which is the main part that makes it feel forced

then finally voting them and treating it like a slam dunk.


side note: i cant forget to mention that im not the biggest fan of the wagon composition but im ignoring my gut

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i townlean luca and samantha but theyre some of my weaker townleans

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wait wtf i just noticed

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respectfully disagree on all of that

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I'm sort of here now but need to get my head back into the game.

Zoomer continues to be the towniest of towns.

this does not make me happy though
big red target on my back

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iconeum changed and said maybe he was looking at it wrong

that doesnt necessarily clear him of all suspicion for that pisspoor push, regardless of if he walked it back or not its still wolfy

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that doesnt necessarily clear him of all suspicion for that pisspoor push, regardless of if he walked it back or not its still wolfy

town do wolfy things sometimes

yeah? how does that change anything lmao

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if you want to scumhunt youre going to need to look for wolfy things, just because someone can be town doesnt mean they are
mafia are unpredictable

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'town might do x' isnt a defense

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UNVOTE:

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>one of the quieter slots
>has the third highest post count

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>one of the quieter slots
>has the third highest post count

Also is this active lurking or what?

im just not getting involved in this 4 way shitfest

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>one of the quieter slots
>has the third highest post count

Also is this active lurking or what?

im just not getting involved in this 4 way shitfest

You didn’t want to get involved, but you threw a dart at a part of the argument I put forth? Why not just openly take a side or engage me more actively? Seems strange.

because that involved me
none of this other shit that i dont have a stance on does

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>one of the quieter slots
>has the third highest post count

Also is this active lurking or what?

im just not getting involved in this 4 way shitfest

i've had my share of shitfests and this ain't one, chief

its a shitfest because of all the directions its going in
theres like 3 different arguments happening at once with the same people

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anyway going to bed
im

proooooobably

gonna reeval my reads tmmrw,

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i need to make content before i get prodded
ill get to work on rereading

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nevermind fuck that
VOTE: Iconeum
completely changed my mind about how i feel about their reaction to anya's 'l-1 vote'
looks fake as fuck

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for the way they put you at L1, obviously

it's not about you specifically,

but coming in hot like that just smells like scum thinking they had an opportunity for lolhammer potential

while it reads genuine that bit smells like bullshit

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what brought you to that conclusion for outworlder

Pretty sure ive said that already but its based on main points of

First OW is being pretty aggressive in calling players town, especially in scenarios where there is a lot going on. Think that early exchange where he came out of it with me, Dats and Inifity town. Later he essentially calls Icon town along with most of the players who are voting him (add Icon, Umulat and EZ to town reads). Im not sure how many scum, especially newer scum, back themselves into that type of a corner where seven different players are essentially off limits for them to vote halfway through the first day. Add it that most of the wagons or potential wagons are on players in that group as well and I think you have town. Scumhunting by town reading always feels like a town tell with newer players.

Second is his wagon which just throws up red flags for me. Luca is voting him because his reads are "fake" (which I obviously disagree with) and not expanding on what reads are fake/why they think so. I have no idea why Anya is voting him. EZ at least has the most reasoning (who has moved on too), but I think it takes a few timelines out of context. Then you are voting him on meta (?). Its a town read, and players that I have no read to slight scum reads on. Heading up a wagon that seems to have little if any actual reason to exist.

So yeah. OW is town for the way he is approaching the game and a very questionable push on him from others. Im calling OW town right now.

ftr i havent changed my mind on ow
i just think your point on them narrowing their targets down has merit, if the nk's are only their townreads then thats a different story

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Zero chance Icon is limmed today

Umlaut and Outworld are good leads, let’s focus on them

both wagons look like shit
no

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umlaut is maybe a fine wagon but the problem is i dont scumread him
at worst hes null

i hopped off ow because llama made good points and i didnt feel comfortable joining hands with my two weakest townleans
and of course the umlaut wagon has icon

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Did you read my points on why tr’ing a load of players doesn’t make you Town, Zoomer?

like llama says it narrows down your potential mislim targets a hell of a lot
i think hes a good day 3 wagon depending on the nk's but otherwise i dont feel itd be wise

but nevertheless dont believe a word i say as its just the ramblings of a bad player, not even to be snarky im dead serious

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ah hell whatever, if this comes back to bite me solely because im worried about failing to trust you again then i dont care
im being borderline delirious because i dont think i got enough sleep
VOTE: Outworld

lets just act like none of this nonsense i just spewed ever happened pretty please

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llama reading back you asked for my reasons on why i voted OW and never responded to it at all, can you tell me why

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Zero chance Icon is limmed today

Umlaut and Outworld are good leads, let’s focus on them

both wagons look like shit
no

Ur push on Ico looks like shit

you have been one of the most passive players this game

[esotericzoomer]

bro wtf

[esotericzoomer]

zoomer i'm afraid it's been a week since your birthday and time's up

i'm obligated to tell everyone you're actually a wolf now

VOTE: zoomer

its only been 6 days for me

[esotericzoomer]

Due to unforeseen real life complications, I am stepping down as mod of this game.
The stress of modding and my lackluster performance have combined with reality to make me absolutely miserable. It has taken a toll on my health. It's not fair to you, the players, who have to deal with my bad decisionmaking, or to my poor backup mod, who has to endure my repeated mental breakdowns.

Speaking of my backup mod: I will leave you in the capable hands of

Gypyx

. He's been helping with most of the decisions regarding this game anyway. Be nice to him!

I hope everyone will be able to enjoy the game regardless. I wish you all the best of luck.

of course it's not unfair! i think everybody would prefer if you prioritized yourself and your health over some silly game about lying
good luck and i hope you get better

[esotericzoomer]

anyway im gonna make a few posts to improve everyones opinions of me then replace out so my future replacement doesnt have to inherit scumreads on me
if you want a reason as to why ive been inactive its because i realized how shit my reads are compared to everyone else and it completely killed my wim

[esotericzoomer]

also the fact that 10 pages appeared everytime i slept didnt help much either

[esotericzoomer]

announcing replaceouts is against site rules just so you know

also whether mafia or town it's unethical to do that in general, cause town shouldn't have mafia escape their grasp from a replacement, and mafia shouldn't have to contend with a town member who is harder to lynch

thats a dumb rule but sorry my b
replacing out because my wim is dead isnt exactly unethical though?

[esotericzoomer]

i dont remember the direct definition but its essentially my motivation to play a game

[esotericzoomer]

nvm i was making a wallpost but i couldnt even get through one case before i found i didnt even have the motivation to continue making it