mini normal 2226; who won

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Datisi

[Aristeia]

waiting for my hero.




Alchemist do you think Seanzie is a Mafia?

[Aristeia]

Welp my vote is serious now

How serious are you right now?

[Aristeia]

What are your reads looking like so far?

I'm quite bad at getting early reads tbh, they're nothing that I'd be very excited about.

[Aristeia]

I think Seanzie's caginess is more likely to come from town then from scum.

I also think that Flubber's reaction to the caginess seems bad . I don't think that anyone would read Seanzie's post and actually think they were saying that posting=bad, and it was very obvious what he was actually saying.

VOTE: flubber

would you like me to join your wagon?

[Aristeia]

fear not, i am here!

VOTE: Flubber

[Aristeia]

This is too cute to be bad

[Aristeia]

Hi Tris!

I voted for Flubber in 56

^,^

[Aristeia]

Um, pretty serious?
I don’t get the point of the question

"welp"

and

"my vote is serious now"

feel like dissonance to me.

so I'm asking for a clarification on how serious you feel about this.

[Aristeia]

Does anyone think Flubber is townie?

[Aristeia]

i actually got some townie pings from his posting upon his return. my mind completely skipped over 12 at first, so upon that elaboration, i can see town!flubber going mad at someone "lying" about their push.

opening his iso, don't think he looks *great* exactly, talking only about seanzie and nothing else isn't a great look, which is why i'm fine with him being on y-1 to see what happens and i'm not losing my mind over a possible quickhammer.

well if you say so

UNVOTE: Flubber

[Aristeia]

Datisis feels town to me.

Now that Flubber has explained more, I think their thought process seems genuine, even thought I disagree with their conclusions.

I am not liking that Aristeia keeps asking other people before she votes/unvotes, like she is absolving herself of her votes.

VOTE: Aristeia

[Aristeia]

Doesn't mean I am willing to let them just avoid having any reads of their own

what would you like to talk about?

[Aristeia]

Close to My Heart: Datisi

Beneath the Sky: Lukewarm, Umlaut, Seanzie

Sea of Dreams: Gamma Emerald, Titus, T3

Waves upon the Shore: ChaosOmega, Meg

The Long Winding Road: Alchemist, Flubber, Vulture

[Aristeia]

Datisi is the hero of our story, he is so handsome and cute and I would be so sad if he were scum, call it a wish of the heart, I think he is good. I could wax poetic for days about how amazing he is but I don't think you would like to read that? Besides it might embarrass him and I wouldn't want that.

mindmelded with Lukewarm on 50, I quite like his method of thinking, it feels natural.

Umlaut feels like he has purpose and direction that is going somewhere - he feels quite motivated to catch bad guys.

Seanzie gives me nice vibes, I can see where his questions are going and he feels fairly real to me.


Gamma/Titus/T3 I'm not quite as comfortable with but they've all done independently townish things that remind me of their towngames.


Chaos/Meg need to post more.


Alchemist feels too careful, it's like you say things with too many words and I think you don't have pure intentions, you remind me of my ex-boyfriend who would start talking quickly whenever he was trying to lie to me.

Flubber feels kind of forced to me, I don't think he is genuine, there's a certain awkwardness.

Vulture's one liners feel quite surface level and I think it's possible he slipped T3's alignment in 82

[Aristeia]

I guess a way to describe my read on Datisi is,



He makes my heart sing.

[Aristeia]

His takes are not good and he doesn't care about how other people view him. I think he's more careful when he's actually scum.

[Aristeia]

I imagine he'd be more restrained rather than just randomly blurting things out.


I'm going to pretend you have no doubts about me because I'm not sure my gentle heart could handle it.

[Aristeia]

fear not, i am here!

^

[Aristeia]

I get somewhat anxious when I play these types of games and when I read your first post and saw that winking face, a sense of warmth just washed over me and I felt so safe in that moment.

I feel like I can trust you and you will protect me from all the evils in this world.

Am I wrong?

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Datisi

[Aristeia]

I absolutely disagree with this. Please provide evidence.

He enters the thread and comments on thing he believes to be most suspicious, he doesn't waste time with commenting on things he does not care about.

I find the clarity of purpose and focus to be townie.

[Aristeia]

oh my,

that's quite awful.



VOTE: ChaosOmega

[Aristeia]

He votes for Lukewarm and then,

His first two lines are explain-y, as in "this is what I'm actually trying to do", the point he's making is that he did nothing wrong.

I find that tends to come from people who are scum and disagree with the manner in which they get caught.

Because if Lukewarm is scum, why would he even bother explaining to Lukewarm what he's actually trying to do?


"If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has?"

This line is just wifom.

He's also looking at Lukewarm jumping off me, but if he actually believes Flubber to be scum, he should be much more interested in how Lukewarm started the Flubber wagon and then jumped off of it rather than the interaction with me.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Meg

I am not doing this just to see my name next to Datisi's

Really.

[Aristeia]

Apologies for my absence, I've had a busy weekend,

I shall catch up by tonight.

[Aristeia]

*waves at Mathblade*

: )

[Aristeia]

I'm unlikely to be able to convince you.

You'd have to figure out I'm town on your own.

[Aristeia]

Looks like you’re playing the game through Datisi versus having your own reads.

I don't think being deferential towards people whom you hold a high opinion of is a bad thing.

Mafia games tend to be more ego-driven, I like to be carried by people I trust.

It's just the way I am.

[Aristeia]

I think it’s horrible because if you’re scum and Datisi is bad boosting a bad Townie gets a lot of mileage and if you’re town we don’t get a chance to read you and your thoughts. Mafia is not a game to be done on the sidelines.

I think I've been fairly transparent about my thoughts on the game so far.

I like to support Datisi because he's a brilliant player and one that I townread.

I've played before with him and he instantly caught a scum and helped put the town on its way to winning quite handily.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87222

Why do you think Datisi is a bad townie?

[Aristeia]

yes that's true. but wouldn't you need some evidence that Datisi is playing badly before you make this kind of accusation?

[Aristeia]

Hi Prism

[Aristeia]

Luke you are adoorbs and so naive I just want to hug you.

[Aristeia]

Is there anything you want my opinion on Mathblade?


I am sorry to have been such a disappointment to you.

[Aristeia]

I don’t want an opinion on something specific. I want you to show me you have reads and are scum/town hunting however you do it. If you’re town I want you to convince me that my read of you is wrong by being deep. If you showing your thoughts means pushing someone do that. If it means a read wall do that. Show me you have reads don’t tell me you do and ask me how to get out of the proverbial dog house.

Right now my solve is Prism - Meg - Alchemist21.


I don't like the way Prism entered the thread or the way Flubber voted for Meg.

I don't think it makes sense as town!prism, it feels like scum!prism entered, saw the top two wagons were scum!prism + scum!meg and decided to try to powerwolf and take control of the thread.

Specifically this entry post:

UNVOTE:

Given 610 and Meg's relative inexperience-why is this slot even on the table?

I will be reading over the game tomorrow and perhaps can answer my own question then.

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

[Aristeia]

I feel like there are way easier people to try and pivot the thread onto

Why not go after Chaos? Or Vulture? Or Umlaut? Or Titus? Or you?

Those all seem like easier people to pivot to then me, right?

why do it the easy way if the hard way gets you townread and allows you better positioning to take thread control?

you are making an assumption about Prism wanting to do things the easy way.

[Aristeia]

In your theory, do you think that her push on me was supposed to work?

Or are you saying that she scum read me to get a town read, to then pivot to someone else?

Prism is very good at scum so yes

[Aristeia]

attacking the heaviest townread players and town leadership is a very good way to seize thread control if you are good at creating a false narrative.

its something prism has to do if flubber/meg is s/s.

[Aristeia]

[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.

The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.

When you unvote it becomes e-2 so the hammer is not an issue.

You can simply ask us to hold up for 2-3 days in order to give you time to reread the thread

Inmediately snapreading off one post the consensus lead wagon and using 610/megs relative inexperience to say she shouldnt be even on the table reads as very manipulative to me esp if you haven't even read the game.

[Aristeia]

Bit about me not taking the easy way is a way off, I am very laid back/minimal effort as scum if I can get away with it but the caveat always applies.

I don't think there is anything else to respond to about me. My strategy would depend heavily on who my specific partners are. I am good at establishing thread control as scum. I am also very intentional, verbose, and demanding as town.

I think your town game is more marked by questioning and doubt.

You've been burned in the past by derailing a runaway bandwagon on scum before and you'd need significantly more evidence than a one post snap-read to try to do it here.

You demand the best from yourself and your team.

I don't think you/meg can get away with playing passively here, if meg flips red it will look very suspicious why she didn't try at all to vote/push an alternative, it casts suspicion onto the Altwagon which is you.

I think you went with the method of attack that had the best odds of resetting the narrative and taking control of the thread. I don't believe town!you does that here with no information coming in cold to a game.

[Aristeia]

This completely ignores my more aggressive tendencies. I can & do slow down when I want to but there are times even as town when you should be direct, vocal, and fast.

This is a technical response to my question that is designed to sound reasonable by expanding out the response window.

I agree there are times you must be direct, vocal, and fast.

I'm saying it doesn't make sense for

town you to do that in this instance

and it feels to me as the action of someone with an informed agenda.

[Aristeia]

I absolutely have been burned by bad reads and my own aggressiveness, yet a cursory glance of my recent meta will reveal I am more aggressive than ever. I am wrong and I am wrong like clockwork, and I may be on Meg as well.

Casting my play this game as not marked by questioning & doubt is willfully blind. Go revisit and think how I am leveraging the snapreads/ISOs.

I'm not casting your play this game as not marked by questioning/doubt.

I am casing your entrance posts into this game as being unnaturally confident based off very limited information.

It also happens to be the method I believe scum!you would enter this thread in with a partner in danger of being eliminated.

[Aristeia]

Let's talk about 610 then.


I don't believe it's particularly difficult for a player to post something like:



"I'm willing to be mis-elimmed, please give me some time to post.

There's 6 days left in the game so let's use them all.

It's good to do this even if I'm scum because I'll give you associatives."



This is a kind of LAMIST posting at death's door that is designed to be quite reasonable.

Why shouldn't the town use every day possible?

Why shouldn't we give more time for new opinions to change?

I find myself agreeing with everything she says.

And yet;

Why would a scum player not post something equivalent to try to slow down their own wagon?

Their goal is survival, their enemy is momentum. They want the wagon to slow, atrophy with time and disinterest, people to townread them and go away.

Towns can quickly lose interest on a long day one, wagons fall away and move from time to time with no reason at all.

I haven't seen anything in this post that doesn't make sense for scum!her to do but you've decided off this post alone that she shouldn't even be on the table.

In a game that you've just replaced into and not even read.

It doesn't feel like Prism walking in blind to a mafia game with open eyes to me.

[Aristeia]

It also might be worth noting that as scum I would have 100% have already read the entire game before replace-in. I do not post without knowing exactly what is going on and why.

This is just self!meta.

I think scum you relishes the oppurtunity to crush towns.

The worse the starting position the more delicious the turnaround.

Also with T3 threatening intent to hammer and Meg being like all "you can kill me it's not a problem" there doesn't really exist the premium of time for you to take a full re-read.

You have to make a move that hits the game state hard like a meteor in order to take thread control, reshape the narrative and get things moving for your side again.

[Aristeia]

The behavior/approach itself is what I found town even if there's scum incentive. I would not townread more experienced players for the same behavior.

I will grab you backlinks of me playing exactly this way as town if you insist.

If you had been playing all along and had context/progression on her slot I would agree that it absolutely makes sense for you to townread her here.

However you are replacing in cold.

The replacement was announced just a few minutes prior.

It's impossible for you to actually have done the work necessary and I don't think Town!You does a derail with not even doing the work because town!you is a perfectionist at these games to the point of unhealthy obssession.

[Aristeia]

Okay. There is nothing for me to respond here to as town. I can backlink excerpts from Perpetual, Forest Fire, and Trust Tell later when I am not on my phone, but I suspect this will not be resolved until I am flipped one way or another.

I don't see how your play from games where you are town would serve as a counterfactual for what I'm saying about scum!you's play in a game state where your scum partner is in imminent danger.

A proper counter-example would be scum!you replacing into a game where a partner is about to get eliminated on d1 with hammer intent already on the table and your slot having voted the player in question in an awkward way.

That's a fairly narrow condition set so I kind of doubt you would have a relevant example to cite.

I don't expect you to come up with a counter example, it would be unfair of me to put that burden on you.

I am simply laying out the relevant reasons for scum!you not to do a re-read but be forced to immediately enter thread and fight. I am doing this to counter your self!meta that scum!you would not come in cold.

[Aristeia]

Assume the opposite and Prism is scum:
This means any scum voter doesn’t want credit for a bus.
This means any town voter isn’t confident enough in their scumread to want credit but just has their vote lurking there.

If Prism/Meg are both scum then nobody would want to be credited with a Prism wagon because Meg flips red here and whoever is pushing Prism altwagon looks shady as long as Prism is assumed to be the scum counterwagon.

[Aristeia]

Look at this game state if Flubber/Meg/RandomThird scum is the solve.


Meg doesn't want to push Flubber because she thinks she messed up and doesn't want to push her teammate to die instead, she feels like it's ok for her to go down day one and wishes her team luck while posting generally lamisty/stalling items in the thread.

Flubber reluctantly votes Meg and goes VLA 14 days lol?

RandoThirdScum could be anywhere.

Now which scum in this game state would want their vote on Flubber?

RandoThirdScum doesn't want to vote Flubber, Meg has already decided its ok for her to die, if she flips the counterwagon is the first place the town will look and nobody wants to be "leading that"

Flubber isn't going to vote himself.

Meg has decided she's the weakest link and a newb and ok to go down on D1.

[Aristeia]

I know you don't like to be town dictator

that is one of the reasons I think you are scum here.

I am busy as well


this thread doesnt need to be me vs you for another 5 pages.

[Aristeia]

Fairly sure you are the one playing the Farkran scum game between the two of us.

[Aristeia]

It is a factual statement.

I think your alignment is somewhat conditional on Meg's - I'm not sure scum!you would have the incentive to bare its teeth if a partner was not in imminent danger, I think you do take the time to re-read the game before entering the thread in the manner in which you did.

[Aristeia]

You do realize if people actually take the time to read what you're typing and think through it they will realize you are just literally repeating Farkran's scum game where he inundates the thread with so much verbiage that people's eyes glaze over and they just nod along with him right?

[Aristeia]

I don't think I would ever decide to "shove" you as scum, I have better things to do with my life.

[Aristeia]

Why would I not focus on Prism? I believe Prism is the biggest threat to the game state and if I'm right there's a good chance Prism takes thread control and wins.

[Aristeia]

They came up with a horrible decision to try to confirm themselves and randomly have an artifact to scum.

The artifact wasn't even important to the game and it was a decent thing to talk about and form reads around early in the game.

The fact that Prism gave it to Bork!scum ultimately didn't really affect the game state very much at all, it certainly didn't help Bork survive.

Also that decision came during pre-game where nobody had even done anything, Prism's decision here is being made in a game state that had already settled down and people had formed their initial reads.

[Aristeia]

Have you played with me before?

I ask you this not to hunt you but to know how to explain something to you.

Yes

[Aristeia]

sure I'll shut up about it and we'll see who was right when the game is over.

[Aristeia]

I get you think Prism is scum, but no one else is interacting here. It’s been pages of both of you back and forth here

Spoiler: You don't have to read this, I don't care anymore

this is btw exactly the type of Farkran-scumgame where he drowns the thread in so much verbiage that can be easily refuted but it takes so much time to read that nobody is willing to actually read the back-and-forth and figure out what type of talk it is because it's so damn long.

You can blame me for "drowning the thread" but if you actually look at our back and forth, like actually print it out and read it from front to back you'd realize most of it is just me responding to comments Prism makes that are just wrong.

[Aristeia]

@Ari, I'll reset Prism if Vulture flips scum.

I think it's Meg-Prism-Alc so this doesn't really do anything for me.

[Aristeia]

Aristeia if you're that worried about me pacing the game/controlling the thread you fucking try instead.

I've been told to shut up by Mathblade/Others and let the thread breath so I'm fine twiddling my thumbs over here.

I've already stated what I believe the solution to be and people have stopped listening to me.

I care more about everyone having "fun" than maximizing my probability of winning.

[Aristeia]

I've literally stated a complete solve I don't know what else you want me to do.

[Aristeia]

Right now my solve is Prism - Meg - Alchemist21.

^

[Aristeia]

their iso is very weak,

they don't feel very engaged.

I don't think they care about the answers to the questions they ask.

their voting history is kind of ick and fits with a flubber partner.

[Aristeia]

I am already Anti-Fun Prism so whatever. I might as well take my head out for a bit and stop f5ing. I will 100% be back later tonight but I am very frustrated by the state of the game.

what are you even fustrated about?

you know the easiest way to make me townread you is to catch a bad guy

you are perfectly capable of catching a bad guy.

they want me to give you space and I'm fine giving you space to do your thing.

[Aristeia]

What if you swapped Prism for Titus? I think that’s more likely how she scumreads Alchemist yet she wanted the Vulture wagon.

Titus is too random to be scum in my opinion.

[Aristeia]

I think Prism's read of Vulture is accurate regardless of Prism's alignment.

[Aristeia]

I'm sorry you feel that I am antagonizing you.

I will avoid talking to you until you give me permission.

[Aristeia]

@Ari, If you're wrong on Prism, what are your reads?

@Vulture, Can you give us a readwall? Intelligent comment? Why a sigh in 978?

I mean Meg/Alchemist are scummy for me independently of Prism, it's not like a team-read.


Maybe Chaos? I dunno he hasn't really done much. It's day 1 I just have people I don't like and I want to hit some baddies and get NK'd and flirt with Datisi in the dead thread.

[Aristeia]

She says she has her solve and in essence went back to the “clocked out” mentality she had earlier minus the gifs.

I'm still reading and posting.

I'm just not going to come up with a different solution when I have something I believe in.

If I see something that someone else presents that's very good and attractive to me I will move to that.

If I see something happen that changes my reads I will post about it.

But I'm not going to reset my entire solution set when I don't even have any information that says my reads are wrong yet.

[Aristeia]

I'm going back to posting gifs because it makes me happier.

[Aristeia]

@Meg - The self-awareness and no effort to survive read townie to me.

is this about Meg?

because I really don't agree with it at all :<

[Aristeia]

Could I at least get an apology after I flip green?

At least from those on my wagon.

Also @Titus I already claimed VT

I apologize for getting this wrong if you flip green.

I also apologize for never giving you a chance even if you do flip red,

Sometimes I get stuck in a mode of thinking and have trouble getting out and the way you approached being scum-read just doesn't do it for me.

I would be lying if I said your appeals didn't touch my heart strings and I do wish things could've ended differently and I could feel stronger about eliminating elsewhere.

It's not your fault, it's honestly mostly mine.

[Aristeia]

I feel kind of lost...

that is a very strange nightkill and I feel it means I've been pocketed badly :<

[Aristeia]

MB who would you like to vote for?

[Aristeia]

what question? I missed it sorry : (

[Aristeia]

Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.

[Aristeia]

well I'm waiting to see what he does today unprompted and it's not very good.

I don't really understand what everyone's voting for and I think I've messed things up enough yesterday that I want to see what happens without me.

[Aristeia]

it's like one of those things that happens and you think everyone knows more than you do and you're just like dumb and you think well let's see where this goes.

[Aristeia]

I have no idea what Umlaut or Chaos alignments are.

I don't know whether this is TvT.

I'm town because my role pm is green.

I'm not doing anything to figure out my reads, I threw them in the trash yesterday and I'll re-do them when I have time to.

[Aristeia]

See here’s the situation I am in. People think you are X. I will not say whether I agree or not that you’re X as I believe that breaks the spirit of an alt. What I do know is that from this game there’s a quiet secretive player who’s not asking anything.

Do you have a game under this alt with a similar meta with you town?

Like I am trying to meet Titus half way here and I am just not seeing it and I am scared.

You don't have to be scared of me dear.

I've only played one other game on this site and you can find it if you look at my topics.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Chaos

[Aristeia]

I like Lukewarm's posting the most out of everything I've read today so I will help him.

[Aristeia]

why? i hate being the one to say "why me", but you've given no indication that you thought i was scummy, other than "i'm throwing out all my reads" i guess, and even then that doesn't explain why you jump directly onto the possibility of me being scum, as opposed to. anyone else.

Datisi first post D2 SS4
Datisi first post D2 Micro 988
Datisi first post D2 Mini Normal 2226

[Aristeia]

Datisi are you informed that I'm town for some reason?

Because it's really weird for me to experience no paranoia/doubt from you when we just killed a town player on D1 and I was one of the more vocal people killing Meg.

[Aristeia]

Like when we play together usually you express some kind of paranoia/fear of me but here you're just like "I don't really care this is fine"

[Aristeia]

I don't particularly have any reason to think Chaos definitely flips scum here.

I am voting for Chaos because the case for Chaos makes more sense to me than the case for Umlaut because nobody's even presented anything for Umlaut and Datisi scares me rn :<

[Aristeia]

I don't particularly have any reason to think Chaos definitely flips scum here.

I am voting for Chaos because the case for Chaos makes more sense to me than the case for Umlaut because nobody's even presented anything for Umlaut and Datisi scares me rn :<

*sad*

I presented Umlaut is scum because he wasn't voting yesterday and I caught scum doing that very recently. It's also why I FoSed him day 1.

you think umlaut is scum who saw town killing town and just didn't care enough to vote?

[Aristeia]

Titus how sure do you feel about Ums?

[Aristeia]

fine VOTE: umlaut

e-1

[Aristeia]

why? i hate being the one to say "why me", but you've given no indication that you thought i was scummy, other than "i'm throwing out all my reads" i guess, and even then that doesn't explain why you jump directly onto the possibility of me being scum, as opposed to. anyone else.

[snip]

Datisi first post D2 SS4
Datisi first post D2 Micro 988
Datisi first post D2 Mini Normal 2226

here are a few others of my first posts d2: (1) (2) (3) (4)

i was town in all those games. having a short intro to day two is nai for me. and i feel like it's a biiit disingenuous to be making an argument based on 2 prior games, and one of those being a towngame that had a much more exciting day 1 than this one, and in which i was on the front of a scum wagon, so i was naturally more interested in the game than here with the meg wagon (yes i know it ended up being that scum were playing like jesters and i was arguably the biggest anti-town person in doing that, but i didn't know that at the time).

Because it's really weird for me to experience no paranoia/doubt from you when we just killed a town player on D1 and I was one of the more vocal people killing Meg.

uh. i literally asked you to explain your sudden read on me which made no sense to me. i did not ask you that because i'm fearing for my own life.

I just feel you read "off" to me, it's weird :/

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Aristeia
That video Math posted just got my brain moving on this subject a bit and I kinda wanna explore the fact that her solve from yesterday turned out to have no meat to it seeing as she has completely abandoned it. I don’t think she ever hashed out

why

she had the solve she did, and as such I think it was total bogus.

I thought Meg was scum because her posting mostly centered around her being voted out and felt performative and survivalistic in nature rather than pro-active and solvey - this is invalid because Meg flipped green.

I thought Prism was scum because of the way she entered the thread instantly defending Meg, this is probably invalid because Meg flipped green.

I thought Alchemist was scum because his posting felt weird to me, I think he was posting out of need to look busy rather than genuine curiosity. I don't know if this is valid but I'm not going to try to force another elim after being wrong on D1, I'd rather listen to Titus who was right.

[Aristeia]

this is probably the first time i hear someone accusing someone of white-knighting for them while they are on their wagon.

I'm not sure which post of mine Umlaut even thinks is a defense of him?

[Aristeia]

This militank is adorable.

[Aristeia]

does anyone have a direct objection to my Aristeia push?

[Aristeia]

I've never had the good fortune to play vs MathScum - he tells me that he is like one of the best scum players on the site so I don't think I'd be able to identify him very accurately. Everything he's posting makes me feel we are in a town!math world though.

[Aristeia]

the mental gymnastics point makes sense a little but I still want to see Ari re-litigate her Alch read

What's there to re-litigate? I don't think he's done anything that makes me stop and think this person is town and I'm not really interested in forcing through a second elim when I've been wrong once.

[Aristeia]

so like, there's two means of amending my concern, either showing why the lead has been dropped, or showing that's not the case
I don't feel like either has been done sufficiently

Gamma,

I still believe Alchemist is mafia.

However I'm not going to impose my will on the thread when I've already been wrong once.

I am going to sheep the people that I town-read and who were right to tell me no yesterday because that's just how I play cooperative games and it's probably just the right thing to do so that everyone has fun.

[Aristeia]

There can only be one elimination every day.

If I am pushing for my suspect - someone who I believe is scum and as far as I can tell someone nobody else thinks is scum,

I am saying that my opinion matters more than the opinion of every other town!player playing this game.

Unless I'm extremely sure, I would not do this, and sometimes I don't do this even when I am extremely sure because it's not a nice way to play.

[Aristeia]

gifs are scummy.,.. nyucky!

[Aristeia]

you tryna go?

r u ok?

[Aristeia]

Datisi is my lover and we have access to a PT together but I don't know if he is Mafia or town.

This question keeps me up at night and I haven't been able to sleep in days.



he promises in the PT that he is good but I've been fooled so many times that it's left me feeling jaded and vulnerable.

[Aristeia]

MB you'd tell me if Datisi was being scummy right? I don't want to live a lie forever.

[Aristeia]

It wouldn't matter which of us is voted out for we will leave this world together.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Datisi

[Aristeia]

:<

I'm just happy we killed a bad person

[Aristeia]

^

Me after umlaut flipped red no lie

[Aristeia]

I am here to be a good little sheep

[Aristeia]

You think I was scum theatring with Prism on D1?

[Aristeia]

I am sad that you think I could be guilty Titus.

[Aristeia]

all I wanted to do this game was flirt with Datisi because he's so cute

[Aristeia]

Titus I am town

[Aristeia]

Ari’s voting patterns have been weird and I think they might be scum who isn’t sure what to do in this gamestate.

What has been weird about my "voting patterns"?

[Aristeia]

I don't see the issue with sheeping my townreads when they are killing bad guys.

If I saw things differently I would object and push for something else.

[Aristeia]

You can tell I am townie because I am happy to be town-read without any guilt in my heart <3 Mathblade

[Aristeia]

Why can't the team just be Alchemist - Lukewarm?

[Aristeia]

Ari being obvtown is absurd.

I am sooooo obviously town tho.

I'm practically glowing.

[Aristeia]

aristeia, what are your thoughts currently? how come you're not voting anyone?

My top suspects are Alchemist and Lukewarm.

Alchemist because he sounded almost disappointed when a bunch of people told him that I was very town and that his thoughts about me were actually how I play as town, I'd think town!him would be more relieved that people told him to stop trying to kill me when I'm like obv!town as it avoids a mis-elim.

If he disagreed with everyone else and still believed I am scum, I would expect him to push back, instead his sigh of annoyance felt like scum being disappointed at a mis-elim being taken off the table.


Lukewarm has overall just not felt very engaged or solvey compared to what I've seen of him in the past and that's a big shrug for me.


I haven't voted because I liked sheeping yesterday since it produced good results and I'm making my mind up about who to sheep today. If you have some solid opinions about who to kill you will tell me yes?

[Aristeia]

What do you see from Luke that looks like he's solving?

I skimmed the ISO last night and again just now and it just looks like he's been tunneled on ChaosO for most of the game?

[Aristeia]

I wasn’t annoyed I just worded it weirdly.

the feeling I got was that you were annoyed.

[Aristeia]

I mean obviously scum!you wouldn't outright just say "I am annoyed my mis!elim is gone"....

[Aristeia]

What do you see from Luke that looks like he's solving?

I skimmed the ISO last night and again just now and it just looks like he's been tunneled on ChaosO for most of the game?

Town can be tunneled and still feel like they’re trying to solve
I just played a game where at least to my eyes that seemed to be the case for one player

Yea I think town can be tunneled/solvy sure but I don't think Luke feels like he's town convinced that chaos is scum because he's not trying very hard to kill Chaos.

[Aristeia]

wb tris!

we missed you !

[Aristeia]

Oh. You meant overall.

Haven't you sheeped my solving twice already this game lol

(And then abandoned me for dats both times)

I am very needy and Datisi is so handsome....


who do you want to kill if Chaos is off the table now?

also is he actually off the table for you? Do you townread him or do you still want to kill him?

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Alchemist21




I like everyone on this wagon.

[Aristeia]

to counter the effect of my replacement on scumteam plans and to be fair to them, i'm going to not tryhard - which will have the great side effect of no toxicity from me ... win win (:<

please refer to my note about not tryharding
im here to vibe and do the gameing

if you present me providing game content/reads in the form of a fun game, I'll bite though


*activates pooky mode*

NM u deserve to be jailed for seriousposting this much

me : im playing lazy this game
gamma: omg you're being lazy
me: yes

I think its funny how many games titus goes and reads me as tfhe opposite alignment as i actually am and never thinks to hwrself "hmm maybe something i am doing here is wrong"
it astounds the mind.

ok well it had 0 bearing on it so fuck you

why the fuck do i try to shoot datisi as scum here yall are fucking scum/delusional and meta suggestd either is just as likely

why the fuck do i try to shoot datisi as scum here yall are fucking scum/delusional and meta suggestd either is just as likely

Anyone could suspect him as a cop.

You're so grossly uncharitable i cant believe i thought math was pocketing you vs the other way around
VOTE: titus

I dont care if you're town at this point I want you dead bc if you're town you need a lesson taught if you do care about winning.

Koba you're adooorbs

nevr change

[Aristeia]

this feels kind of TvT

I want to sheep Datisi again

[Aristeia]

however, the actual issue being, if gamma is scum, i think his most likely partner is aristeia, and i don't wanna lie in that world :/

Datisi you know in your heart that I am pure of soul,

Like the wind kisses the mountains beneath a starry night.

My love for you is like sea foam on a warm beach.

Half remembered dreams of that place we first met.

[Aristeia]

Mathblade I promise you are right that I am town.

[Aristeia]

I think I am getting close to I just wanna post gifs territory.

but you're supposed to be tryhardy and solvy so I can be funposty and gify.

[Aristeia]

Koba trying to convince everyone that they were actually right feels like the kind of thing that arrogant town Koba would do as they can't ever admit they were wrong.

[Aristeia]

I think the best reason for alchemist scum atp is that Koba has been wrong about literally everything so far so this would just be the cherry on the cake.

[Aristeia]

omg datisi deepwolf got blocked doing the kill! :O

[Aristeia]

omg datisi deepwolf got blocked doing the kill! :O

Impossible

I know I'm just trying to make Datisi feel better <3

[Aristeia]

btw thanks for keeping my Datisi safe <3

it should conftown me as well because I would never in a million years harm a hair on Datisi's very cute head.

[Aristeia]

I don’t get that but will look when I can devote actual time.

I wanted to post gifs

Ari’s gonna make me try hard

I wanted to be lazy

ok lets just lazy gif post then

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Ari

You can't be serious girl.

I just realized this start of day was because you thought I was being cheeky after trying to kill Datisi :O


Titus you are adooooorbs <3

[Aristeia]

I am a Vanilla Townie

[Aristeia]

@titus

I am going to guess you blocked Not Mafia just to have a different guess from Luke

[Aristeia]

One of the things I look to is path to victory for scum.

If scum never get checked then they lose to PoE
If they get checked they lose because checked.

Bad setup and GG we win?

a win is a win!

[Aristeia]

we play in the world we are in, not in the world that we wish to be in.

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

I know I have no night action because the only thing I do at night is dream of flirting with Datisi.

[Aristeia]

I am. But I just don’t think Mastina makes back to back unwinnable setups for scum.

I have seen normals where town has 2

ungated

investigative roles that get guilties on scum while scum is 2 player team + a traitor.

Though that was with a Loyal Jailkeeper. and the scum team won in a sweep.

[Aristeia]

maybe not mafia forgot to put a nightkill in

[Aristeia]

I can assure you that I would not forget something as important as killing people if I were the bad person!

which I am definitely not !

[Aristeia]

Alchemist21 Jul 27, 09:18pm Aug 19, 07:38pm 3 days 2 hours 160
Not_Mafia Aug 09, 04:09am Aug 18, 02:19pm 4 days 7 hours 24

^ NM hasn't posted since the Alchemist elimination and is probably the most likely player to "forget" to nightkill

it would fit with a traitor being unable to nightkill or communicate with the Mafia Doctor.

[Aristeia]

Possible but I doubt it. When I was scum with Not Mafia just a game ago he checked in. He also never hammered e-1 in those games.

Plus Umlaut v Flubber/Not Mafia is a thing.

Probably looking at an intentional scum no kill.

I don't understand why scum would deliberately no kill in this game state.

[Aristeia]

ok but in this game state with 9 alive why would scum choose to deliberately no-kill?

it would actually explain the delayed night end as well if the mod didnt have a nightkill action from the scum player and delayed to give him a new chance to submit a nk but he just didn't do it.

[Aristeia]

i will likely be late in starting the day.

i will start the day at some point after 1 pm PST, and probably after 2 pm PST

^ the timing lines up with the mod giving a 24 hour extension and prodding the mafia player to submit a nightkill but the mafia player just doesn't do it.

[Aristeia]

not killing at 9 is giving the town an extra elimination - it's really not a great thing to do if you're scum trying to

set someone up

because your max gain if it works is just to get you back to where you should've been in the first place on the kill cycle.

also I don't think a deliberate no kill by choice would've had moderator extending night deadline by a whole day

[Aristeia]

I just don’t think so.
I think tris just had RL.

Anything else is mod interference for scum
I can’t agree with your argument here

I don't agree with RL, I think it's more likely she gave mafia an extension to get their NK in and then opened day when the mafia didn't take their chance.

I don't think there's an RL reason to delay day open as it's fairly minimal effort to write "No1 Died" and unlock the thread.

[Aristeia]

Titus doesn't require processing.
Chaos is just send him a PM that says "Gamma has a gun"
Gamma is just send him a PM that says "____ is ____"

the "nightkill" didn't happen so doesn't even have to be processed.

She obviously didn't siteflake since she logged on to say that the day start would be "delayed"

[Aristeia]

Kind of funny if Prism!Scum got replaced by NM!scum who then obvscumed himself by forgetting to submit a nightkill.

Imagine what that traitor is thinking right now.

Enh Mathblade?

[Aristeia]

I refuse to believe a moderator openly scumsides. There is no argument that will convince me otherwise.

I don't think delaying daystart to give the scum an extra day to get their NK in is openly scumsiding.

However the person who is most likely to have forgotten to submit the nightkill is obviously NM:


Alchemist21 Jul 27, 09:18pm Aug 19, 07:38pm 3 days 2 hours 160
Not_Mafia Aug 09, 04:09am Aug 18, 02:19pm 4 days 8 hours 24


and I refuse to believe a scum player decided to no-kill deliberately at 9P night in order to "frame" NM when NM is already in the POE and throw the town an extra elimination for the funsies.

[Aristeia]

Then we are at an enpass. Because I always assume mods are neutral.

ok even if you throw the extension out of the window, I still think accidental no kill is a lot more likely than intentional no kill.

[Aristeia]

Then assume you convince a majority.

Then we flip Not Mafia and assume he’s town. There goes the “extra” elim.

The extra elim the bad guy who decided to nokill gave us in the first place?

I don't understand the motivation to no kill in the first place.

[Aristeia]

Assuming they are town and you are town then Koba and Datisi lock town assuming two town from the PoE is gone.

We are at 10 alive now then 6 alive. Koba and Datisi conf town then you’d be looking at two scum and two POE best case scenario. Scum town no kill. Draw at best. Scum can’t kill there else they get elimmed.

It’s unwinnable for scum.

I remember a setup that is actually quite similar to this with 2 scum and a traitor vs 2 town investigative roles + loyal jailkeeper + innocent child + 2 town neighbors.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84467

the scum did end up winning.

I think the town is probably stronger in that game than this one.

[Aristeia]

the only real difference is the town checker didn't understand her role was investigative in nature and the town didn't know they were up against scum ascetics and the scum also didn't know who their traitor was and the town got an extra delayed IC and some neighbors who had a fun time feuding with each other.

I don't think this setup is so incredibly unbalanced that the mafia can't possibly win.

Let's try to win the game first before we criticize Mastina about how balanced or unbalanced the setup is.

[Aristeia]

Quick skim of that setup doesn’t have the same problems.

because?

[Aristeia]

Quick skim of that setup doesn’t have the same problems.

because?

Because no forced innos.

Assume Chaos checks a VT no gun. Gamma checks a VT (other than Chaos). Titus blocks a random Townie not killed.

You get an inno there.

Then the other VT is inno’d until we get to same point and this setup is suggested. Gamma either checks them or they come into the PoE again but by then Gamma becomes alignment cop and has checked others thus narrowing the PoE.

How is that different from the Checker checking a VT and the Neapo checking another VT and the Loyal JK preventing a kill on N1?

[Aristeia]

Checker checking a VT isn’t an inno. Checker could be blocked hit an ascetic. (Redirected non normal only)

Here Gamma gets a result of VT. That act of the result + Vt = inno unless mod puts in a goon.

Mod puts in a gun then guilty to gunsmith.

Town also threw by yeeting the Checker.

So again town threw..scum won because town threw proving my point

I don't understand your first line, the only thing that could block the Checker in that setup was the Loyal JK...

The Neapo is objectively stronger than either Informed gunsmith who can only find 1 scum and a gated rolecop that we have.

on top of that the scum team is uninformed who their traitor is and the town has an extra Innocent Child (Delayed) to boot.

My point was that such a setup

has

passed review in the past by Mastina and she rejected the contention that it was unbalanced or townsided in the post game so there would be no reason that she would not create a setup that is similar in terms of power balance.

[Aristeia]

my point isn't to litigate if the town played badly in that game or what they should or should not do with their checker.

My point is that this setup is even more townsided than the current claimed setup and reviewed by Mastina and she rejected the claims that it was townsided in the post game so it's well within what could have been passed into existence.

[Aristeia]

and she still doubled down and said it was fine.

so why do you think she will change in the future or that she changed for making the setup for this game?

mini normals are notoriously protown in the current meta.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: not_Mafia


yay

[Aristeia]

I actually debated using this gif at daystart.

we are like gif sisters

[Aristeia]

and she still doubled down and said it was fine.

so why do you think she will change in the future or that she changed for making the setup for this game?

mini normals are notoriously protown in the current meta.

Notoriously protown should not be autowin for signing up.

I am pissed off here because I could literally claim scum and win.

That’s messed up.

I could be 100% antiwincon intentionally,

I can’t believe Mastina would do that again just after being told so.

I can’t.

You gave your feedback to Mastina on Aug 7th:

viewtopic.php?p=12929283#p12929283


This game started on July 27th

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87284


So even if Mastina took your criticism to heart and and wanted to change her setup, she would need a time machine to do so.

[Aristeia]

also I highly doubt Mastina listens to you given her wallposts in the Garfield game saying you're wrong

[Aristeia]

the scum can simply kill the investigators. There is always a path to victory.

[Aristeia]

Nope they can’t. Assume all are town

Assume Chaos and Gamma claim D2.

Scum kill Gamma. Gamma’s N1 check becomes confirmed town/scum.

Chaos gets off another check. Two players confirmed gunless or Titus confirmed to have a gun.

Latter leaves 3 locktowns left unless scum get lucky and were checked by Chaos.

Otherwise still town sweep.

what if town eliminates gamma d1 and scum shoot chaos at night b4 he can out any results?

[Aristeia]

You mean what if town throws and scum are god tier?

Then it’s possible scum win but that’s not even remotely probable

well it is

a path

[Aristeia]

if math is scum, he is traitor scum and protecting NM main scum imo.

i dont see a world where mathblade main scum forgets to submit NK and then spends the entire day hard defending the person most likely to be blamed for "forgetting to submit the NK"

[Aristeia]

It’s also a path to victory for town if scum no kill every night.

Play shouldn’t be balanced around that.

There has to be a remotely probable path to victory.

I mean I've literally shown you a game where scum won in a sweep where the town had very similar roles to this game except town also had an extra IC and neighbors too so I don't really understand how you think its impossible to win.

Also the debate is about what Mastina will design, not whether such a setup is balanced. Balancing setup is a postgame discussion, I think it's fairly clear the claimed setup falls well within Mastina's meta.

[Aristeia]

If I am scum I woulda killed Titus last night. Just sayin

ITT Mathblade says things to his scum buddy that he can't say in his PT anymore because umlaut is dead

[Aristeia]

if you're town why can't you just be wrong and NM forgot to put in his kill order at night?

who do you think would decide to "nokill" to frame cowman?

[Aristeia]

Mathblade: This setup is unloseable if town don't throw!


Also Mathblade: I'll commit suicide, lets vote me out.

[Aristeia]

It proves the setup is busted and we win no matter what or there’s deep wolves win win

how does eliminating you prove the setup is busted?

[Aristeia]

?

even if you flipped green I still wouldn't believe your mastina meta.

the mini normal meta is very protown and is independent of your alignment and your thoughts.

These games are not reviewed by Mathblade, they are reviewed by Mastina.

[Aristeia]

I'm not even arguing with you about balance.

I am saying this is the type of game Mastina has greenlit in the past and designed in the past.

I'm not saying she is a better balancer than you are or she's more respected than you are.

I am saying we are in a MASTINA designed game, not a Mathblade designed game...

[Aristeia]

good night !

[Aristeia]

I'm just sad Datisi didn't visit me.

[Aristeia]

I'm also quite confused now on what this setup is and I can't wait for Professor Mathblade's next lecture on setup balance.

[Aristeia]

ngl part of me thinks NM is telling the truth

ok but imagine if we yeet NM and he flips Even Night Traffic Analyst.

Imagine what Datisi does on D5.

It'll be really funny

[Aristeia]

VOTE: chaos

Traffic analysts make more sense to me then a gunsmith, given then set up info.

And, I have been scum reading chaos all game, and only tabled it because of the claim, and now there are too many claims.

And, like math said, even a town flip would confirm a lot of people

Plus his ability is functionally useless, so we are not actually losing a functioning pr this way.

Said Lukewarm scummily.

Said ChaosOmega scummily

Said Not Mafia scummily

[Aristeia]

that's 66% win not autowin

[Aristeia]

actually they have to get both scum so only 33% win

[Aristeia]

2 conf town 5 alive. << here is where auto lock happens
Both scum alive have to get the Townie elimmed or sacrifice their own. Conf town revealed here

how is this auto win?

Because two scum pushing on same player they are out as scum
Therefore scum have no control meaning townies decide twice

Barring Town mistake autowin

this is just nonsensical to me

[Aristeia]

2 conftowns + 2 scums + 1 nonconftown is not autowin

[Aristeia]

I mean it just isn't autowin

town has to ID the town player correctly to win,

the odds of that happening is 1 in 3...

[Aristeia]

In 2-2-1 endgame, every unconfirmed player will say "I am the last townie, the other 2 are scum"

There will be no difference between their stances on each other.

It will be up to the two conf town to correctly pick which player is the actual townie among the three unconfirmed players - the probability of this happening is 1/3.

It is nowhere close to "autowin"

[Aristeia]

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssiiiiiiiiiiiii

[Aristeia]

Like the obvious third option to what math is saying is “one scum busses, the other pushes town”

no because if you are one of three people left "unconfirmed" it doesn't

matter

who you push at all.

The endgame Math is outlining is

solved

there is literally 0 thinking involved.


Two CONFIRMED town.

Three people who are unconfirmed, two of them being scum, one being town.

The town player KNOWS the other two players are scum and is willing to vote for either of them and doesn't care who dies between the other two.

This mindset is incredibly easy for scum to replicate because there's no solving involved, it's just "I am the last townie, vote out the other two players".

There's literally ZERO strategy or thinking involved in such an endgame.

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

i have nonzero anxiety about titus dying tonight and people yeeting me tomorrow because math is loud and has a new shiny conspiracy theory going on

I will defend you if Titus is gone

[Aristeia]

Datisi, talk to me about a Chaos Koba team.

I waffle on Chaos.

I thought Koba was cleared by Gamma?

[Aristeia]

but this game there shouldn't be a bulletproof traitor since the traitor starts in a neighborhood with the scum neighbor.

also I would murder everyone for my precious Datisi but I am good and Titus promised me he is too soooooooooo

[Aristeia]

There's no law against Gif Reuse!

[Aristeia]

I would never shoot Datisi though.

I am an innocent flower.

[Aristeia]

I highly doubt there's ever going to be a 4 scum game run in a 13p mini normal.

[Aristeia]

Gamma I truly have no evil intentions at all.

I sleep like a baby at night because I am

innocent

All I wanted to do this game was flirt with Datisi.

[Aristeia]

I wasn't even aware that T3 suspected me to begin with