Mini Normal 2232 -ENDGAME

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup nerds and dwlee and jojo's

VOTE: Nixie

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I wait a couple hours and then I eat a protein bar

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I see dwlee would like me to think he's a mason again

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I am

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No need to thank me but I've found our first scum
VOTE: MargotRosa

[ssbm_Kyouko]

did i not post here dammit

Did you say this because you opened the thread this morning and did not post before this (about half an hour before this) when you thought you had, or did you think you had posted a while ago when the thread unlocked?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Our moderator

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's not. I confess, I usually eat oatmeal.

This is the honesty of town.

Hard claiming that my role will not mess with investigative results after skimming mod iso of those last 2 NK15 games

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alice why do you not think Nathann was distancing from Margo?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I kinda feel like Alice is TMIing her partner and that Jolyene's clue about scum shitting themselves implies jolyene knows something that jo thinks that scum also know, like maybe a special kind of traitor.

If that's the case I'd hazard a guess that "our mob" was not a typo but was in fact a traitor crumb and geraintm voting me is chainsawing for Margot

Another case cracked by bdsm_ultimate_detective

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I voted Margot because her entrance is scummy. All she has to say is "scum confirmed" - she's trying to fit in to RVS with a joking post but it just falls flat and feels forced to me.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I kinda feel like Alice is TMIing her partner and that Jolyene's clue about scum shitting themselves implies jolyene knows something that jo thinks that scum also know, like maybe a special kind of traitor.

If that's the case I'd hazard a guess that "our mob" was not a typo but was in fact a traitor crumb and geraintm voting me is chainsawing for Margot

Another case cracked by bdsm_ultimate_detective

Interesting. I can't see the tmi. Can you elaborate on that?


Your take on geraintm make sense. However, I can't see why geraintm would do such a risky play. It could be easily missed or noticed by Town.

The TMI:

MargotRosa and ssbm are the scumiest from entries.

I doubt Jackson will come to play.

What is scummy about Kyouko?

I think MargotRosa entry is awkward, repeating my joke could be a scum not having an idea how to enter the thread. And Kyouko could notice that as well and stack a vote, distancing herself early.

Margot didnt actually repeat your joke, so this feels like working backwards from Margot being scum. Saying I notice that as well and that I am distancing is setting me up to appear scummy on a scum!Margot flip and actually serves to distance you from Margot: why would Margot copy your joke if you were partners? Why would you point it out if you were partners?, these are questions town may ask themselves in the future

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alice why do you not think Nathann was distancing from Margo?

Not him, but you. Why you voted Margo?

I understand you're saying you don't think Nathann is distancing. I'm asking

why

you think that, given that both of our votes showed a lack of reasoning.

I dont understand how you get to "Kyouko also noticed Margot copied my joke and stacked a vote on to distance", but you

don't

also get to "Nathann also noticed Margot copied my joke and stacked a vote on to distance"

These are our votes. What is it about me or Nathann that differentiates our Margot votes from one another?

VOTE: MargotRosa

VOTE: Kazyan

Why the self-vote?

Let me know what you eat for breakfast, as that will form the basis of my scumhunting.

What if I don't eat breakfast?

No need to thank me but I've found our first scum
VOTE: MargotRosa

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alicek's reaction to Kyo feels good so I'm inclined to call that t/t

I kinda agree for now. Not so much a vibes thing, but I believe Alice believes in what she's saying

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also yeah geraintm beat me to it, Dwlee and I just finished ELO in a game that geraintm was a D3 IC so it made sense to me he'd think the d0 IC was weird

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My info is:

There are only 2 mafia.

There is no daytalk1

Are you certain your information is written in a way that is not up to interpretation? For example, is it possible there is a traitor, or is it possible there are 2 mafia goons and an unspecified number of non-vanilla mafia members?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Goober is like someone who does stupid, awkward or weird things unintentionally. Kinda like a clown, but less negative in connotation. I read Ythan this morning but need to actually look at the posts he's referencing later and make sense of it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Naruto is a classic goober if that helps

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How do you TMI your Scum Partner this early? And how is a typo (“mob” instead of “mod”) actually a clue for a Traitor in any reasonable context? What is this thought process?

This is not my current view on Alice, but as you're catching up:
You can TMI your partner this early by latching on to something insignificant that they did and scumreading them for it.

The context was "our mob" instead of "our mod" - "our" being the operative word. Implies he is a part of the mob, aka the mafia - hence, traitor crumb.

Sounds like there may not be a traitor though, waiting for confirmation from Jolyene.

Margot didnt actually repeat your joke, so this feels like working backwards from Margot being scum.

They didn’t directly repeat the “joke”, but they both called me Scum (or otherwise implied it) for plainly stating that I am Town. Isn’t that the point? That’s what this is talking about right?

it didnt seem to me that it was the same thing. Similar, but not the same, and taking and calling it the same pinged me. Did they feel the same to you?

Pedit: looks like jolyene wrapped that up.

Who all is in a neighborhood?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah, saw it in preview, hence the pedit

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Idk if I've said it yet but dwlee is town so far

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You can TMI your partner this early by latching on to something insignificant that they did and scumreading them for it.

What? Hahaha I’m sorry but I just disagree. Why is this not just standard Scum trying to make a mountain out of a molehill to justify a bad read? It’s the TMI part of your argument I’m getting totally stuck on. If there’s 2 Scum, my instinct tells me that they’re not doing what you’re looking for here.

I didnt know there were 2 scum when I made that post

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You can TMI your partner this early by latching on to something insignificant that they did and scumreading them for it.

What? Hahaha I’m sorry but I just disagree. Why is this not just standard Scum trying to make a mountain out of a molehill to justify a bad read? It’s the TMI part of your argument I’m getting totally stuck on. If there’s 2 Scum, my instinct tells me that they’re not doing what you’re looking for here.

I didnt know there were 2 scum when I made that post

Okay but assume this has the standard 3 then. I still don’t think Scum’s first instinct is to blow up their Partner by highlighting something small they did. I just… don’t get why that’s your first instinct.

Because Alice's reasoning to sus Margot looked fake, and Margot's entrance looked scummy. 2 SRs, one sussing the other for what looks like a fake reason, hence it's a TMI

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Same and similar are not the same words. They're similar, but not the same.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

and that Jolyene's clue about scum shitting themselves implies jolyene knows something that jo thinks that scum also know, like maybe a special kind of traitor.

Tell me how this is helpful to the Town. If I picked this out, in that I thought the IC is hinting at something that might be useful later, but not stating it directly, then why clarify it without asking first? You’ll also notice that from some commentary that came in later, that it’s just wrong.

It's not necessarily wrong though, Jolyene confirmed the info only states there are 2 scum and no encryptors, but their info makes no promises about how many of those 2 scum are traitors.

If it is wrong, what does that mean to you? I feel like you're going in circles with lines of questioning that don't lead to anything useful. Mostly rhetorical questions, and you're entirely focused on me and dwlee - why do you TR kazlan?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

and that Jolyene's clue about scum shitting themselves implies jolyene knows something that jo thinks that scum also know, like maybe a special kind of traitor.

Tell me how this is helpful to the Town. If I picked this out, in that I thought the IC is hinting at something that might be useful later, but not stating it directly, then why clarify it without asking first?

I mean this is a good point that 226 doesn't address. Notice I trimmed leaving just the part I'm referencing, ie why

I didn't address it because I was starting to feel like Andres was asking questions for the sake of asking questions. Asking "how does this help town" has so many subjective answers and I felt like regardless of what I answered it would be met with "How does [your answer] help town?" - this is what I mean by going in circles with Andre's. I dont think the questions he's asking are meant to sort me; it doesn't seem like there's any good faith there.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Enchant, who else is in your hood?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do you have a read on Kazyan outside of 64?

Their readslist seemed fine, but I do agree with (I think it was) you when you pointed out that the vote didn’t match the strongest SR. That seemed interesting.

The readslist is as fine as a page 6 readslist can be. Interesting definitely, though I'd be lying if I said it makes me lean one alignment over the other.

Anyway, the reason I ask. Kazyan is the person I was getting scumpings on earlier. Things like responding with "good point" when there was no point made (46) or pointing out how there's not enough info for them to do anything

while

there was somewhat productive discussion happening around the (92) pinged me the wrong way. Readlist was okay, and I disliked the focus on teamreads rather than individual reads, as that feels like an easy way to stay busy while not actually helping. The explanation for that in 257 is okay, I guess.

The reason I out this now is because I realize I'm slowly getting tunnelled on that read, and could probably use a sanity check. And you were the only one (I think) to express a read on them earlier, and I'm gonna cheat slightly and sheep our IC's read on you for the time being, so. What do you think?

Of course, others' takes also welcome.

Mo is scum.

Yes

Also surprised nobody has commented on his slip yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh I Q+ed nathan last night, was going to say I also felt early on like Kazyan was scum which is why I was questioning Andre's about his TR there, but also that he made another post later that had me reconsidering, I'll get the post #

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah it was the same post like I thought it probably was - 257

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i agree 2 maf in 13p is probably easy and i guess a day 3 end with town victory. @ me in post game.

This is scum that has given up a town-sided game
VOTE: GrandpaMo

Also he said "we have hoods?" to sound uninformed. If he was really uninformed I think it would be more like "I'm not in a hood" or he just ignores my question if hes actually in one and wants to hide it for now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm willing to vote DGB because the explanations are getting questionable, but I am also not sure what to read it as. I'm inclined to think the stubbornness is town from it, but I haven't played with scum!DGB

enough

to have seen stubbornness from scum!DGB and be able to tell the difference

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And Alice I think is town so far, not as hard as Dwlee/Nathann, more Kazyan level

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh yeah that's true that's probably best at this point. I do think GrandpaMo posts that because he's given up hope though
VOTE: Enchant

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was also asking Mo about when he was in the thread on D1 around post 34/35 because someone looked and didnt reply 2 times in that hour or so timeframe.

The results of my investigation into player activity:
Players not online in that timeframe that have their online status published: JacksonVirgo, Andresvmb, Nixie, and AliceK

Players that dont have their online status published but were not posting in other games: MargotRosa, Nathann, DGB, Dwlee99, geraintm

Kazyan: was online at 7:34 Central that morning, but didnt post until 9:04
GrandpaMo: made the "did I not post" post, possibly indicating he is the source of one of the 2 views that came without posting

[ssbm_Kyouko]

459 was in response to 457. First sentence means voting out Margot/Enchant is probably for the best still. Second sentence means, I'm about to vote elsewhere but because I'm moving my vote so fast I want to make it known that I do still think that the snip I quoted where you @yourself in postgame, is you giving up as scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The implication is that if Margot (Enchant) flips scum that the last scum looked at and didnt reply to the thread because I 360 noscoped Margot's opening post

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Anyways I didnt have a whole lot going on that morning so I was watching closely for responses to 34

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^those are the posts I’m talking about.

its kinda impossible for me to "solve the game" for town if town doesn't act on their own accord/present their own opinions so.

Yes, that's the whole point. The "you're not the Townleader" line annoyed me.

I think in 512 enchant is referring to andres not being the townleader? He says anime but I think that's more likely an autocorrect than it is he's calling Jolyene anime, because there are a few of anime avatars this game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

gotta read from 554 later, don't want to lose my unread post marker

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hmm, glad I reread GMo. Couldn't follow along on my phone at my in-laws' house yesterday. I still think that when he @'ed his postgame self, that was something that gets posted by scum that are giving up in a town-sided game. If this was the case though, he has suddenly gotten very motivated. I also noticed 115, and I disagree on that assessment of 107. When I read 107, it looks quite forced to me. How often (especially in a 13p normal) do you expect someone to write out "the three scum" - it's much more natural to just say "the scum" or "the scumteam" or even "hero solve." If nixie wasn't an alt this is the type of thing I'd meta-dive her for, but what I'm getting at is, Nixie is trying to force a dumbtell there. 115 makes me concerned that you may yet be a Nixie partner.

Aside from that though, GrandpaMo seems town.

GrandpaMo is not the wagon for today, nor is Enchant I think. He's starting to become readable, so I'm going to unvote for now.

UNVOTE:

Jolyene - conftown
Dwlee/Nathann - town
Andres/GrandpaMo - town?/off the table
geraintmn, Enchant - might compromise, but better to read them on a later day

Going to work on these players:

Kazyan
Nixie (Titus)
Ythan
DGB
AliceK

[ssbm_Kyouko]

the grandpa wagon is dying quickly.
enchant, you are going to go unless things quickly change as no one else has any ideas

Oh yeah that's true that's probably best at this point. I do think GrandpaMo posts that because he's given up hope though
VOTE: Enchant

this vote...dont get it

Lemme start that wagon, then. VOTE: Enchant

and that stinks

I dunno. I feel like being a contrarian isn't the best scum strategy, and Enchant's antics are distracting us from actual scum.

I have been able to correctly town read him when everyone else wanted to eliminate him.

I can't say that I find him townie enough in this game to defend him.

VOTE: Enchant

and that isn't a ringing endorsement either. that feels oppotunistic to say the least.

in factVOTE: dripping goofball

My vote there was because I voted MargotRosa early on in RVS for a very scummy (imo) entrance, and she never came back to the game to respond. I had forgotten about her because of how long she had been gone and Dwlee reminded me, so I went back to voting her replacement because at that point Enchant was not towntelling at all. It's still debatable that he's towntelling, but he's making AI posts now that I

think

could be town so I'd like to go elsewhere toDay.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Kazyan
Still gotta read the other players, got pulled into some meta here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So again, you remember when DGF told he managed to townread me, but claimed i am not townie enough to protect me, and then voted?

Well, this is dumb, if you truly believe i am town (Spoiler: I am town), then why you vote me? What death of townie give to you, i don't think it even give intel, because there's everyone hating me and want /delete me from game, so even if i die, you will have almost same situation, expect for -1 townie+0-2 townies from nightkills.

So, why? I can't comprehend your logic DGF

DGB was saying it has managed to townread you correctly and defend you when you were both town

in previous games

. DGB is implying that it has been able to read you correctly before, and that here you are not town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well, things changed quickly. Enchant ain't going today either

Who should go though?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Titus
What do you think of this post? Need to read RVS for context

MargotRosa and ssbm are the scumiest from entries.

I doubt Jackson will come to play.

What is scummy about Kyouko?

I think MargotRosa entry is awkward, repeating my joke could be a scum not having an idea how to enter the thread. And Kyouko could notice that as well and stack a vote, distancing herself early.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Think Alice can be scum here actually, I was too soft on her earlier. Will have to see what comes of her catch-up

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Kazyan
Still gotta read the other players, got pulled into some meta here.

Is the vote result of the meta? If so, sell me on it?

Actually sell me on it regardless, I'm not sure where to vote.

His entrance into the game seemed scummy from the get-go, but 257 held my scumread at bay. Rereading it though, I dont feel compelled by 257 the way I did the first time. It doesnt feel strong enough in the current gamestate where I'm developing more TRs or tableing players like geraintm/enchant for later.

Additionally, I skimmed his iso in his 2 newbie games, 1 he is town, the other he is scum, and I feel like he as a person associates "vote-parking" with a scummy behavior from reading his iso here and in the 2 newbies. He opens the game vote parking here, and I feel like the reason he associates it with scummy behavior is because it is what he is inclined to do as scum.

I also feel like he's been waiting a lot, very passive. Like he wants to see what others do before committing. Looking at 70 for example, is one example of this, but there are more instances to be found in his ISO

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Uhh also when people default to "can you expand on this" it's a lazy way to look like you're sorting

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My impression of Kazyan is he wants to look like he's solving, and he wants to make sure his reads align with the consensus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

did i not post here dammit

This is a hood slip. He must have posted in his hood at day start and forgotten to post here is my guess

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmmmmmmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Let's kill kazyan

VOTE: Kazyan

Pedit: it's okay if you wanna bring it up Andre's lmao

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If the Mafia doesn't have Daytalk without an Encryptor, the Neighbourhood shouldn't have it either. I wanna figure out what is happening and whether someone is screwing up their fake claim.

Off the top of my head I don't think this speculation they neighbors require an encryptor for day talk is correct. I think that specifically enables the mafia to communicate. And the rule about how the rules have to say if mafia can talk without an encryptor, I'm pretty sure that's also specific to the mafia.

No.

Encryptor enables Daytalk in any Private Topic they're in, not just the Scumchat. And Daytalk is either global (all PTs have it without an Encryptor) or it isn't (nobody has it), it can't be Mafia-specific.

So Jolyene, does your info state that there are no encryptors, or does it state that Mafia has no encryptors? Maybe there is a town encryptor in a 3 player hood or something? Meant to make the encryptor suspicious that the other players in its hood are scum?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think this got missed so can we kill Kazyan now?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

We don’t need to see you lie to generate conversation - I can’t trust a single claim you make the rest of the game since you openly lied about your role while hard claiming to make a point. What the point was I don’t give a shit about. I’m not a player that wants to nuke whoever lies, but some of this shit is just really annoying.

That is clearly what you are doing right now, and it is kinda of an annoying take you are taking.


If you are town -- you are costing us the game because you are coming from a confbias view knowing that I am scum for doing this.

What if I am town, who do you scumread now? it doesn't make sense -- because you have to realize I did help town in a way and some people tonwread me and some people scumread me. I am starting to doubt you are town now.You are just using surface level logic to scumread me. We had a 1v1 earlier in this game and I thought you were town for it. Can you explain to me why you initially dropped the attention prior and why am I your 100% scumread now just after I fake claimed hoods? Because form my perspective, I can say and that you are probably just taking advantage of the situation we are in and trying to find a way to scumread me and found one.

Andres is not taking advantage and digging your heels in is only going to make you and him both get more blindered

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Titus who do you think is scum?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Andres is reacting this way because I, as town, faked a guilty on him, as town, in a mini normal a month or 2 ago. He was very upset. I would not advise counting this reaction "against" him, for what it's worth

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh yeah, I'm playing this game here or something - I don't love Titus' reaction saying that Andres is Scummy for wanting to yeet between the contradictory claims, but I also don't love Andres' reaction saying he won't be able to trust anything else he says the entire game. They're probably not both Scum?

Why? Andres!scum benefits if we're both town.

Town!Andres thinks you and GMo are a mechanical 1v1

Pedit: yes he is tonally the same here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh yeah, I'm playing this game here or something - I don't love Titus' reaction saying that Andres is Scummy for wanting to yeet between the contradictory claims, but I also don't love Andres' reaction saying he won't be able to trust anything else he says the entire game. They're probably not both Scum?

Why? Andres!scum benefits if we're both town.

Town!Andres thinks you and GMo are a mechanical 1v1

Pedit: yes he is tonally the same here

Why? GrandpaMo retracted

Obviously I am talking about before the retraction, which is when Andres was suggesting we have to lim between you and GMo, which is the reason you're scumreading him in the first place

I'm saying your SR on him is misplaced (not necessarily wrong, but if it's right, it's for NAI reasons) if you are town. If you're scum then his conversation doesnt really matter

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm saying your SR on him is misplaced (not necessarily wrong, but if it's right, it's for NAI reasons) if you are town. If you're scum then his conversation doesnt really matter

I’m going to say this for after the game, for the future. Ignore for now and then come back to this later.

If I’m Scum, and I see Town!GrandpaMo lie about their role (or make a Claim that’s really hard to believe or at a weird time), I don’t question it, and I certainly don’t push them. I laugh. Because the only thing that it achieves is paranoia and more suspicion. And it creates a massive distraction. GrandpaMo thinks that their ability to get a reaction and potentially read one slot better or whatever is more valuable than Town cohesion, or for others to read them correctly (or at least believe that they’re generally acting in good faith and won’t do stupid things). That’s why I’m getting annoyed. There’s an arrogance to the play that I despise.

947 was for Titus and was supposed to say "this conversation" as in the one I was having with Titus, not "his conversation", that's a misleading typo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You too busy to answer my questions huh.

I probably didn't see them. Sorry what are your questions.

Why you scumread me for question?

I don't anymore.

I realized I scumread you out of pity.

How can you scumread someone out of pity? You think they're having a pitifully poor performance as scum, or what? I would understand "townread out of pity", but scumread out of pity sounds wrong. Can you explain the feelings?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What did I get out of it? Andre // Nathan confirm themselves harder as town through the digestion and analysis. Enchant was so quick to vote out titus and believe titus is mafia without any escort to reasoning.

Now for people who think I could be scum. Do you think mafia really just claims a claimable spot? No. Mafia will not risk that situation and make themselves looks bad here. Especially knowing I probably would have received this backlash.

I think I am ready to vote now VOTE: Enchant

This is for @dwlee, however, this was at that moment. I am starting to get other weird feelings...

Can you explain those?

Shouldn't it be obvious? I said that I am starting to doubt that andre is town and possibly scum forcing a lynch on me because that's the only thing you can do and found the right opportunity to do so.

Andres isn't forcing a lim on you, your wagon was dissipating and I think is still pretty small, but you've drawn a lot of attention to yourself with this play.

Do you really blame Andre's for the attention you're getting? I don't expect or want an answer to this, this is a question you need to ask yourself.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You don’t get to claim that you won an imaginary fight I’m not having

I chuckled - no shade intended, this is just a funny sentence to read

[ssbm_Kyouko]

andres is blatantly town that's annoyed with ur fps play

Is fps first-person-shooter and his is saying he is self-centered, or does it mean something else?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Scum could have seen the play as GMo and DGB actually being townie neighbors and backing Titus into a corner. scum!Titus couldn't have fired back on GMo for risk of GMo actually getting voted out, and if he flipped as an actual Neighbor, that would have made Titus the automatic elimonation on day 2. But, then, town!Titus would have GMo and DGB either being weird or throwing the match as a scumteam, which would surely elicit...something. Idk

@Andres @GrandpaMo, yes, this is the post that pinged me wrong. Right after there was a pretty big event happening, someone jumps in with this? I think it's obvious why this analysis isn't particularly likely to have actually taken place (why would two Town Neighbours deliberately lie and back Titus into a corner?), and the fact that it has basically no actual conclusions in it? Gives me a vibe of Scum trying to hold up thread presence rather than of Town actually thinking through what is happening.

VOTE: Kayzan since town is getting caught up with ego pushes to punish what they view as "bad play" lets get the biggest LAMIST slot here that is v shallow.

Voltron

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Kazyan

Voltronnnn

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmmm. Cold feet. Anything else on the table?

UNVOTE: Kazyan

Kyouko, what do you mean by that?

By voltron? It means town is coming together to vote out scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

means moonlogic from Titus ("Moon Walker" title presumably comes from her being known for moonlogic)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can we prod Alice please? Or is there no prod requests

Actually just saw the VC and was thinking along the same lines. Alice promised us a catchup on Monday, she's in Europe, and the catchup isn't here and its monday night there. Could be scum thinking that with wagons on GpaMo and Enchant that she can ride it out until deadline without updating us on anything and slide into D2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

She's one of the 5 or so in my poe for D1 that I need to sort if possible, so its fresh in my mind because I just finished her ISO this morning

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I too believe the IC is scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Going to work on these players:

Kazyan
Nixie (Titus)
Ythan
DGB
AliceK

Going to continue with this. Titus doesnt seem town yet, tried to get a bit out of her earlier today when GMo was RTing with the fake roleclaim. I dont think I really know how to read her yet though as I've only been town with her once recently. I was scum with her once and scum against her once too, but have only had to read her once recently, and she was a claimed PR that was NKed early, so I didnt have to figure her out in that game either.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: Ythan-Kazyan raw quotes

I thought it might be a little scummy to ask a probing question over something that clearly doesn't matter, but then I realized that a "peck" at someone hasn't historically come from scum in my games--Lunar Martian in Mini Normal 2187, or T3's initial questions in Not Quite Normal Multiball. And then you gave a reasonable answer, so now I'm not getting any scum vibes from you.

Don't love this on gut. The town read possible pocket attempt at the end particularly but the back and forth at the beginning and multiple meta citations as well.

VOTE: Kazyan

Why the self-vote?

It's an RVS gag? Weird question.

I think it's a stretch to call that a weird question.

Oh....this game is going to be weird from what I've read above.

Will post more later.

This is post 20

VOTE: geraintm

This is a good point. geraintm, can you elaborate on "weird"?

Calling this a good point when there's no context seems "weird" but Gramps is already a top suspect of mine. This can be tabled for later.

I feel potentially conf biased and am going to take a break.

Y'all are both gonna be sad when Gramps isn't here to soak up votes.

Y'all are both gonna be sad when Gramps isn't here to soak up votes.

There is a lot to unpack in this one line. Can you unpack it?

Also, should we consolidate wagons?

Y'all are both gonna be sad when Gramps isn't here to soak up votes.

There is a lot to unpack in this one line. Can you unpack it?

Also, should we consolidate wagons?

Both players posting before me are scum reads but I continue to prefer Gramps because his scummy behavior is more consistent than DGB's and Enchant is just being a low content lurker.

As to your only question the only wagon with two votes besides Gramps happens to be those exact two players. On Andres who is posting mad content.

To actually answer you though obviously yes.

As to your other question*

Also, should we consolidate wagons?

On second thought this is actually a weird question.

Also you're the only player not voting?

As to your only question the only wagon with two votes besides Gramps happens to be those exact two players. On Andres who is posting mad content.

To actually answer you though obviously yes.

Also, should we consolidate wagons?

On second thought this is actually a weird question.

I mean, we have a lot of players who have gone practically silent, so we kinda need a huge majority of active players cooperate to avoid a no-lim today, not just n/2 + 1. VOTE: GrandpaMo. Andre, if you're scum, you're really good at providing scumcases on people.

Kyo, if you're out there, please hammer.

Lemme start that wagon, then. VOTE: Enchant

I understand time is getting short but asking for a hammer without a claim is also a look.

I understand time is getting short but asking for a hammer without a claim is also a look.

And time is not even as short as I thought.

I like that we have things to talk about already besides the IC, though I'm still kinda in the phase where I only know anything about Jolyne's role and my role. So, I'm going to watch and reread for a while in order to differentiate people in my mind.

This feels to me like not purely fluff but a subtle suggestion that you are uninformed town. And other than that it is fluff which makes it stand out.

I could do Kazyan but I'd rather not do a lurker (Enchant) over him or Gramps d1. I'm judging them on content they posted and that's not likely to change going forward but a lurker will either do something later or be a better target if he's still lurking later imo.

Still prefer Gramps over Kaz though actually and if it's a question of moving to the lurker or not I'd say stay on Gramps.

I like that we have things to talk about already besides the IC, though I'm still kinda in the phase where I only know anything about Jolyne's role and my role. So, I'm going to watch and reread for a while in order to differentiate people in my mind.

This feels to me like not purely fluff but a subtle suggestion that you are uninformed town. And other than that it is fluff which makes it stand out.

There is a specific purpose to that post. ♬~

Look for scum or I'll hang you later.

I catched more scums than you already.

I'm still learning all of these Mafia acronyms; what is "NoU" short for?

I could do Kazyan but I'd rather not do a lurker (Enchant) over him or Gramps d1. I'm judging them on content they posted and that's not likely to change going forward but a lurker will either do something later or be a better target if he's still lurking later imo.

If you're judging them on the content they posted, why do you think it's not gonna change going forward? Your recent posts seem to be going through Kazyan's ISO, and judging by 679, you're still only on 92, which feels like a bit of an early call?

@Dwlee, what changed your mind on me? And on Kazyan, why not.

I mean I'm looking at their content now and tomorrow they'll have more of the same. It's helpful but I think the difference between a lurker as a potential wagon is larger between days 1 and 2 if that makes sense.

I think d1 is the easiest time to miselim someone just for lurking.

So how long has this leading wagon on Gramps been an ego push to punish his play over the last twenty four hours.

@Ythan, what prompted you to look at Kazyan's ISO in your 632-634?

You seem like you SR Kazyan consistently in your interactions with him but never push or vote there, only shade. Yet when Kazyan starts to become a wagon you make 1001, but you've said before youd sooner elim Kazyan or Grandpa before Enchant (a lurker). But also you want to elim Grandpa more than Kazyan you say. Kazyan is also softing a PR in 11v2. Surely that's not why you backed off?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Going to work on these players:

Kazyan
Nixie (Titus)
Ythan
DGB
AliceK

Going to continue with this. Titus doesnt seem town yet, tried to get a bit out of her earlier today when GMo was RTing with the fake roleclaim. I dont think I really know how to read her yet though as I've only been town with her once recently. I was scum with her once and scum against her once too, but have only had to read her once recently, and she was a claimed PR that was NKed early, so I didnt have to figure her out in that game either.

Can you actually link me to those games.

I'm on mobile but you can get them from my ego. should be Large 233 (scum-scum), osuka's Mini (scum-town), and my recently ended T3 mini (town-town babysitter). Osuka and T3 are the mods.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Large 233 - scum/scum
Mini 2223 - town/town Babysitter
Mini 2218 - scum/town

My role/Titus's role

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Going to work on these players:

Kazyan
Nixie (Titus)
Ythan
DGB
AliceK

Going to continue with this. Titus doesnt seem town yet, tried to get a bit out of her earlier today when GMo was RTing with the fake roleclaim. I dont think I really know how to read her yet though as I've only been town with her once recently. I was scum with her once and scum against her once too, but have only had to read her once recently, and she was a claimed PR that was NKed early, so I didnt have to figure her out in that game either.

Finished reading these. I take Ythan out of poe toDay and would especially like to revisit if Kazyan flips scum and I'm still alive. Those posts in the early 600s where he randomly starts ISOing Kazyan look unnatural to me. If Kazyan is scum Ythan is a plausible partner.

Prefer to vote any of the other 4, in this order:
Kazyan (scummiest imo)
AliceK/DGB (not towny)
Titus (more proficient as town than AliceK/DGB, but also not towny)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Going to work on these players:

Kazyan
Nixie (Titus)
Ythan
DGB
AliceK

Going to continue with this. Titus doesnt seem town yet, tried to get a bit out of her earlier today when GMo was RTing with the fake roleclaim. I dont think I really know how to read her yet though as I've only been town with her once recently. I was scum with her once and scum against her once too, but have only had to read her once recently, and she was a claimed PR that was NKed early, so I didnt have to figure her out in that game either.

Finished reading these. I take Ythan out of poe toDay and would especially like to revisit if Kazyan flips scum and I'm still alive. Those posts in the early 600s where he randomly starts ISOing Kazyan look unnatural to me. If Kazyan is scum Ythan is a plausible partner.

Prefer to vote any of the other 4, in this order:
Kazyan (scummiest imo)
AliceK/DGB (not towny)
Titus (more proficient as town than AliceK/DGB, but also not towny)

Do you think the soft is scummy?

Yes, I don't think we should have any significant roles since we know it's 11:2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

looking at the votes on the kazyan wagon

Let's kill kazyan

VOTE: Kazyan

Pedit: it's okay if you wanna bring it up Andre's lmao

this is pants

Let's kill kazyan

VOTE: Kazyan

Pedit: it's okay if you wanna bring it up Andre's lmao

No I really don’t want to open that back up again.

VOTE: Kazyan?

Not sure if I liked their earlier pop-in.

I agree - talk to me about what you’re seeing there. They got called out and immediately produced a response and have somewhat taken a bit of a backseat.

VOTE: Kazyan

the andres progression looks bad to me. they didn't want to go there, but let themselves get persuaded

Not like sitting on Gramps with DGB is doing any good now.

VOTE: Kazyan

That should be 4, or l-3

and that sucks too.

my god, this is a terrible wagon. you an't all be scum can you? if this wagon actually gets pushed over the line then i fully expect it to be 7 terrible, terrible votes

I actually have a kazyan case, you're looking at my most recent vote which comes after I unvoted during GrandpaMo's fiasco. After he retracted I thought about it for a minute and decided I still didn't want to eliminate him today and put my vote back onto Kazyan.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Additionally, I skimmed his iso in his 2 newbie games, 1 he is town, the other he is scum, and I feel like he as a person associates "vote-parking" with a scummy behavior from reading his iso here and in the 2 newbies. He opens the game vote parking here, and I feel like the reason he associates it with scummy behavior is because it is what he is inclined to do as scum.

Speaking of your case, I meant to ask this earlier but I forgot. What do you mean by "vote parking"? They did announce that they're gonna park their vote at one point, but they've actually been moving their vote around fairly often, at least in the beginning.

It's the announcement that pings me. I think he is guilty about voting there because he doesn't have the best reasoning so he wants to attach something to the vote. Really what he's wanting to do is not vote himself anymore because he's getting called out for it, but he's nervous about where to place his vote early on before the lines are drawn. That's why he voted himself in the first place I think.

He doesn't have a reason to vote Alice so he just goes with honesty, which will often get townread. His vote doesn't stay long because the tide shifts in a clear direction early on and he's able to move onto the right side of things to stay in the consensus.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

geraintm if you iso andres and me together you'll see what he doesn't want to reopen - you won't see it isoing Andres because he doesn't talk about it (because he didn't want to get into it)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Andres is reacting this way because I, as town, faked a guilty on him, as town, in a mini normal a month or 2 ago. He was very upset. I would not advise counting this reaction "against" him, for what it's worth

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Although you other points on Andres may have merit. I'm still not going there or dwlee today. Are you willing to vote either AliceK or Kazyan today geraintm? Or you sticking to no lim?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Are you willing to vote AliceK or Kazyan today? I'm assuming your vote is on Andres then which is as good as voting for no elim, but I didn't check where you're at. You normally go no elim D1 I thought

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well in your last game with me and this one you've made a big deal of voting for no elim in RVS, and I think said you do it as both alignments in both games

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Even though you end up making votes you start out the day acting like no elim is what you'll be going for so I didnt put much stock in your D1 last time and I haven't been inclined to here either

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm between Kazyan, AliceK/DGB, Titus, in that order today. Kazyan already has 4 not counting Alice, assuming she will vote him we need 2 more. Dwlee and Nathann dont want to vote Kazyan I think.

Jolyene wants an Alice wagon but hasn't moved votes yet. I would also go here. Nathann said also he'd probably doublevote Jolyene.

Between DGB and Alice I'm fine voting DGB out as I am getting the feeling it is playing exactly the same way around deadline as it just did in a game where I caught scum!DGB. It's possible it is doing that to make me think tstbs and if it wants to go, and already has geraintm who seems unlikely to move to alice or kazyan voting for it, it's a bit of an easier lim to get through without no limming. I will be around until about an hour before deadline when work ends, then I'm going to dinner with my family.

I'll vote any of those 4, whichever seems most likely by 5pm Central (deadline is 6pm). I'll compromise on Ythan. Wont vote anyone else toDay (should only be relevant if Dwlee gets a wagon).

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have about an hour until leaving for dinner, will hammer alice if she's still e-1 then. If y'all really want to cut it close someone can unvote and I'll place my vote and you can try to wait a lil longer for a claim, but by that point I wont be around to switch to.kazyan

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I doubt there are any useful PRs considering the known info

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Kazyan

no way do we have an actual watcher in 2v11, and if we do, scum are probably both ninjas and we have compulsive fruit vendors or trackers or something shitty like that that will produce false guilties on town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dwlee crumbed when he confirmed he hardclaimed he saw my post stating that my role cannot interfere with investigations

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Imagine not watching IC as Watcher.

How do you know this didn't happen?

Do you see person screaming "X VISITED JOLUNE"?

I don't see.

There could be ninja and I also don't think everyone checked in yet tbf

Yeah, this is a case for a weak scumslip from Enchant.

O p P o R t U n I s T i C
s H a D e

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Titus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ssbm has a way too strong overreaction to me asking if something was a scumslip or not.

You were trying to be subtle and can't be in ELO anymore imo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okay I thought that Kazyan was a restricted watcher but clearly that isn't the case if he is okay saying he wants to be eliminated. I'm a backup watcher and could have sworn that was what he was softing which is why I went along with it so hard but I think now it might be a red herring based on mod meta but I'm not sure what to make of what I thought was Kazyan's soft

For the record, I too thought Kazyan was softing a Watcher. At first I thought he was just softing

something

, then I realized there was the word "watch" there.

I also have some thoughts on Dwlee's claim, but considering Kazyan's request to Andres to talk about it, I'll keep my mouth shut until after that happens.

From Today, I'm getting some Townie pings from DGB, mainly its defense of Kazyan. I don't imagine Scum would swoop in and defend the suspected TPR. Unless they're partners, but then I don't imagine it would've been voting them yesterday. Though I am looking forward to seeing it do the ISOs.

Kyouko, did you change your mind on Kazyan in the meantime or do you just find Titus scummier?

I haven't changed my mind on Kazyan, but I dont see any reason to TR Titus yet and that pinged me. I'm worried she's taking a slightly slower approach to the game, trying to ease in a bit. I think also her assessment of Andres and GMo's fiasco yesterday was bad. Suggesting that Andre's was scum for wanting to vote within GMo and Titus because they were mechanically 1v1ed is what town does. 100% of the time. Yes, scum can do it too when they know both players are town, but town will

always

do it so it isn't ever a sound read. I think she's better than that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now I’ll say this - if DW is Scum, and the Scum have a Ninja, Backup Watcher is a spectacularly safe claim.

If we get to the day before ELO we can massclaim and see if dwlee's claim makes sense, and if not, kill him to he safe

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also feel like Kazyan as scum looks like an Ythan partner from his scumchart post at daystart

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alright if we have a watcher and a backup watcher I think we need to massclaim to see if it actually makes sense

I'm VT.
Titus, what are you?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Based on you being an unrestricted watcher I'm gonna guess this setup is one of the stupid ones where there's two ninjas or something ridiculous like that. Otherwise scum would just lose instantly if the ninja died D1.

Or GMo is scum and is informed there is no Watcher

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well well well

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm sorry if my Ythan/Kazyan solve affected your judgment

Koba 1 - 0 Kyouko