Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [game over!]

[DArby]

Just woke up to this clusterfuck. If T3 is actually vig I will literally cry.

VOTE: Jolyne as revenge against the daughter of the man that took me out.

[DArby]

…Why does the blue one jiggle harder than the pink?

Yknow what, I don’t want to know.

[DArby]

…Why does the blue one jiggle harder than the pink?

Yknow what, I don’t want to know.

darby, got any thoughts on the game? Also what's your mafia experience?

Too much talk of meta where I'm aware of maybe 4 people tops in this game. Can't say I have much during RVS.

I played on-site like 3 years ago under another account but I was a cringy teenager so I'd like to forget about it.

[DArby]

…Why does the blue one jiggle harder than the pink?

Yknow what, I don’t want to know.

darby, got any thoughts on the game? Also what's your mafia experience?

Too much talk of meta where I'm aware of maybe 4 people tops in this game. Can't say I have much during RVS.

I played on-site like 3 years ago under another account but I was a cringy teenager so I'd like to forget about it.

I might have been in a game with you lol, you willing to say what your former account was?

Jeez if you’ve correctly clocked me from that then I dunno what that says about my current play style. It was cytheflyguy. Genuinely sorry if you played with me back then.

…Why does the blue one jiggle harder than the pink?

Yknow what, I don’t want to know.

darby, got any thoughts on the game? Also what's your mafia experience?

Too much talk of meta where I'm aware of maybe 4 people tops in this game. Can't say I have much during RVS.

I played on-site like 3 years ago under another account but I was a cringy teenager so I'd like to forget about it.

vote t3

Sure
VOTE: t3

VOTE: darby

I don't like his posts.

My calling card UwU

[DArby]

UNVOTE: darby
They're showing a towny thought process - also im vla until monday, very busy weekend. i delegate thread leading to marci and darby

They've only made one read post and honestly I don't think town would vote someone if someone else told them to.
I'm sticking to my vote as of now

I agree. My only game move was saying sure and voting lol

[DArby]

UNVOTE: darby
They're showing a towny thought process - also im vla until monday, very busy weekend. i delegate thread leading to marci and darby

This post feels genuine, same for norwee's comment about marci mindmelding.

How does it come across as genuine? I think this is my fourth post and I so far have not come across as any sort of leader.

[DArby]

Correction that was my 6th

[DArby]

I don't wanna see anyone acting stupid this game, or you'll have my unlimited fury poured into destroying you. When I have a solve, you'll LISTEN TO IT.

depends

VOTE: darby

I don't like his posts.

what dont u like about them

Comment about vig shot sounded fake. Almost like he tried very hard to act as uninformed as possible. This mindset comes from scum.

It’s crazy because this is my first normal game so yes, I am uninformed. Weird read to see ignorance as AI.

[DArby]

I think Val would be perfectly capable of writing an wall as scum, but the fact that they haven’t. It feels a bit calculated, like they’re trying to get a better read on the gamestate before making one.

^ It’s so obvious that I think y’all are looking too hard. The man isn’t a machine.

[DArby]

Holy shit, my memory was right. This is like night and day compared to Newbie 2068.

Val,

what’s happening??

Actually I don’t trust this. My strongest scum read this game is now here. Let the man say hi.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

[DArby]

Let the man say hi.

He has said hi:

Hi.

And yet there's a wagon on him for saying so lol

My strongest scum read this game is now here.

Why?

Like, what is the scum motivation? It's the truth. And Marci and Gamma had the same thought about Val. So why does that make me your strongest scumread specifically?

I actually agree with Marci in 176. It's too early in the game to say he should have done something already. Sure she can think it's scummy/weird he hasn't done his usual posting style but the wagon is silly. I fail to see Val going "fuck im scum. let me say as few words as possible and maybe they won't suspect me." Obviously, he understands meta. Why would he reasonably do something so stupid?

Marci is more hesitant, Gamma comes across as drunk off group think, and although you didn't mention him, t3's vote isn't anything I'm willing to read into so I can't say anything for certain on him.

You on the other hand have all of this conviction for something that would be silly scum slipping (175, 178). I don't buy he would be that dumb.

Also, you're aware of how weird it is in 182, but don't you think that's a bit WIFOM? If he was going to stake out the game, why do something so obviously out of character?

The push feels forced but I wouldn't be surprised if one more scum is on this wagon.

[DArby]

If I had to guess second scum I'd say Gamma

[DArby]

You on the other hand have all of this conviction

If you scumread someone just for pushing a scumread then all i have to say is talk to the hand.

This is how you play the game.

And here I was thinking I was talking too circular.

I’m not saying don’t push your scum reads. I’m saying you’re going pushing too hard for low hanging fruit.

[DArby]

It’s so weird because you’re making my argument more emotional then it is. That’s suspicious. Im saying I don’t think your push is natural and your response is belittling my reads against you. That’s not very pro town of you. If you were truly town you’d use half the energy to attack my deduction skills and use that to work with me to clear up any confusion and actually hunt scum.

You can say what you want about waiting but there’s a 3(4?) person wagon on Val that I think is silly.

[DArby]

If you were truly town you’d use half the energy to attack my deduction skills and use that to work with me to clear up any confusion and actually hunt scum.

That’s literally what i’m doing.
I’m calling your read on me trash and explaining why it’s bad so that hopefully you will reflect and get better reads if you are town here.
And i’m already hunting scum, what are you doing? Complaining about wagons in a game of mafia where consolidating wagons is the main purpose?
You could explain why Val is town, but you can’t. Instead you could say Val is null, and if he is. Then what the hell is the problem? We’re literally working to solve an slot that’s kinda sus and isn’t looking very town by hopefully garnering an response.

See, this is now bigger than Val. I can’t tell if this is your play style or not since I don’t have my computer on hand and it’s harder to read meta. That being said your response is not productive and is weirdly defensive. You’re misconstruing my argument and I think on some level you know it. If you’d care to actually read my posts I did not base my read against you as a town read towards Val. I’m saying I think your push is unnatural. Your response to me saying that is kinda immature.

Sure, push him til he’s at e-1. Idrc. Still doesn’t make me see your push or response as natural or towny. I am playing the game as well. You just don’t like where my FoS is.

[DArby]

I appreciate DArby’s attempts to read into the Val wagon, but part of my motive is to just get something moving. But curious what makes you think being drunk on groupthink is necessarily bad or scummy. That remark initially came off as one that implies a TR on me.

I said I felt that scum probably joined the wagon. If so, I’d feel it’d be you. It’s a vibe read more than anything. Totally understand where you’re coming from but the wording felt like it came out of nowhere unless there was a post I missed.

[DArby]

Also don’t word that as an attempt, please. I did read into it. Whether or not I’m right is yet to be determined.

[DArby]

Also don’t word that as an attempt, please. I did read into it. Whether or not I’m right is yet to be determined.

[DArby]

Obviously i’m defensive.
I don’t want town to listen to bad arguments that get’s town mislimmed.

If i have to belittle you to make the correct elimination happen, i will. Besides, i really do genuinely believe your way of solving shows signs of inexperience. It’s like something i’d do when i started playing, push one of the slots that push cases as scum, and then getting angry and tunneling that slot as scum when called out on my BS and bad arguments.

Anyway i do think you are very likely town here, but nobody should listen to your read on me because it’s plain wrong. And i think the Val push is an good state for the game to have right now so i don’t want you to disrupt that either.

And the unnatural part.

What is unnatural?

What do you define as unnatural?

Is scum= unnatural, and is unnatural= scum?

Regardless of my experience, I fundamentally disagree with your take. Belittling is not pro town. How is trying to do that actually reading my argument? Because it’s not. That’s what’s so disheartening about this. You think I’m pushing you because you’re pushing someone else when I said I’m not. I think your reasoning is weird and low hanging fruit. I have no problem with the push. I do have a problem with your argument because it’s dodgy and self righteous when you haven’t deserved that.

And for the sake of clarifying my wording. I do mean unnatural as possible pro scum behavior. My definition of unnatural is probably different from yours, though.

[DArby]

Jesus fuck I don’t think I can type as fast as you.

I need to do my night routine.

I know what I’m trying to say but either there’s a barrier in communication or you’re not properly reading what I’m saying. I’m going to bed now but I’ll see if I can word myself better tomorrow.

[DArby]

Okay. So. I'm going to try this one more time before I go to sleep because this actually is bothering me.

How is trying to do that actually reading my argument?

I already said i got your alignment through this.
So i'm not trying to read you, i just am dismantling your case because i'm town and i need to get an elimination on scum in this day phase. And i need influence for that.

Like I said "you're not reading my arguments" and you responded with "I already got you're alignment" ?? I do not care if you town read me. I'm invested in you misconstruing my arguments. You're not dismantling my arguments you're trying to dismantle me the debater. I care much less about being right than clearing information, but I do not feel you are listening to me so I'm trying to explain what I am saying. Like in any capacity.

Also,

I think the problem lies in you jumping in the way of a conversation you were never a part of. If you dislike the logic but think the push has value, that’s something you should hold onto until the push has had time to simmer a bit. At that point if you think someone is continuing to utilize bad logic, you can then push that with a stronger conviction than jumping the gun calling it out at the start. Scum reveal themselves most handily when their guards are down, imo.

I get what you're saying and I'm going to utilize this more in the future. But similar to Norweg, I don't think you're properly listening to me either. I saw something I disagreed with and I thought it should be mentioned. I don't think the push against Val has value outside of it just being a push. I found more value in how silly I found the push. Also it's a group discussion. Everyone is a part of it.

To recap:

-I am null on the Val push outside of the value of it being a push.
-I am not trying to double down on my argument because I think I'm right. I'm frustrated because my argument isn't properly heard and I was being belittled so I'm trying to explain what I'm thinking so it can be properly noted by the town. Not to mention I don't townread Norweg outside of this "town block" that's been mentioned, so yes I prodded more.
-I was really interested in Norweg's reaction specifically. I don't see how someone can be so aggressive on a take that has no traction and be seen as town. He said he didn't want a town miselim d1 as if suggesting he was a) confirmed town and b) suggesting he wasn't was an immediate threat to the town is so fucking weird?? I was trying to bring that up in 221, 225, and 234. Val was my secondary focus but because Norweg kept bringing up that as my original post, it kept circling back to Val when Val was! not! my! concern! by the second half of the argument. I was saying that I don't like how you, Norweg, specifically, was responding to my post against you, and you, Norweg, kept bringing it back to my original post when I was trying to expand on my argument that I don't like your response and I didn't think it's pro-town.

Again, this is not me trying to double down on anything. i just really don't like my arguments being misunderstood and I'm trying my best to explain what I'm trying to say.

[DArby]

Cool.
If you don't have a problem with me aside from NAI stuff like: "i just don't like them" then i'm fine ending the discussion on that topic.

Again not my argument but sure

[DArby]

~ all members of the

mafia

are

backup ascetics

. they may or may not have additional roles and/or modifiers.

wwhats an ascetic..

i literally didn't notice that lmao

I don't wanna see anyone acting stupid this game, or you'll have my unlimited fury poured into destroying you. When I have a solve, you'll LISTEN TO IT.

depends

VOTE: darby

I don't like his posts.

what dont u like about them

Comment about vig shot sounded fake. Almost like he tried very hard to act as uninformed as possible. This mindset comes from scum.

It’s crazy because this is my first normal game so yes, I am uninformed. Weird read to see ignorance as AI.

scum often fake townslips like that

Jesus fuck has it really been 36 hours? Time flies when you're drowning in midterms.

I'm on page 14 now but these posts are wacky. Don't wanna comment on Val until I catch up.

[DArby]

Val89 is aligned with the

town

.

Hahahahahaha

[DArby]

Serious question: What's the point of the current Val discussion? I don't see how it's helping town but I might be missing something?

Serious question 2: Is there an actual Norwee push or are votes just parked there (minus myself)?

I'm good w a T3 push but I'd like to wait a bit to reread the last 10 pages.

[DArby]

Serious question 2: Is there an actual Norwee push

You tell me.

Is there?

I don't think there is, no. But it keeps getting mentioned so I want to see if I'm missing something.

Can you answer my question now, please?

[DArby]

What question?

The question you answered with a question titled "serious question 2".

[DArby]

You brought it up 333, 339, and 340 as if it was but I can't tell if you're being hyperbolic or literal in how you're reacting.

[DArby]

If so, the answer is no.

You are not going to convince enough players with your current argument, to be able to realistically build up enough support to have an wagon on me that is big enough to eliminate.

I am not trying to build a wagon on you. I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.

[DArby]

My vote against you is genuine yet but as stated previously I'm fine with a T3 push right now.

[DArby]

Also the questions are opened ended. Anyone can answer. I'm asking because I don't see why there are multiple votes there if there's not a wagon.

[DArby]

Gamma Emerald - null town
toxictaipan - no idea
AnimeK - lean town
NorwegianboyEE - lock town
Val89 - lock scum
T3 - lock scum
DArby* - town
marcistar - town
Jolyne - town
Dwlee99 JarJarDrinks - lean scum
Not_Mafia* - null
redtea igorsprite - lean scum
camelCasedSnivy - null

Why the asterisk?

[DArby]

Prods

Thank you

[DArby]

Pros of alice flip: spews gamma, me, darby, and NM as town
Cons: literally none(except if im wrong in which case that isnt a real scenario)

Wait how am I involved in this? How is NM?

[DArby]

VOTE: Jolyne

Don’t mind me, just parking here real quick.

[DArby]

But, like, for realsies this time.

[DArby]

VOTE: Jolyne

Don’t mind me, just parking here real quick.

Have you considered actaully reading the game youre in in whole? You might actually be able to understand how i reached my conclusions there instead of looking like a clown. I'm not dealing with this shit from my townreads

Answer VOTE: 710 pls thx that was an actual question.

[DArby]

Lmao 710

[DArby]

I dunno why you’re heated. I double checked your ISO and I don’t see a direct correlation between me, NM, and an Alice flip. My vote is only partially related. Please work with me here.

[DArby]

Looking thru Alice’s ISO isn’t she the third person to make the defense that her meta is naturally scummy/aggro? There’s a potential T3 wagon and I feel that’s been the case for Norwee as well. I’m not sure if that’s anything ground breaking but I dunno if anyone pointed that out.

[DArby]

Every time I play with Val he always takes a lot of what I’m thinking and makes it more understandable. I’m scared to roll scum in a game with him as town.

[DArby]

Thanks, Gamma. I was going to respond more but Val asked every question I wanted to.

I actually have the same thought as Snivy. I am wary of trusting someone who is determined to eliminate off of a list. I dunno if I'm allowed to go thru alt's meta of other accounts so I can't tell if this is a typical playstyle yet.

@Gamma, do you trust Jolyne's solve ability?

[DArby]

Not to say that it isn't a valid playstyle. It just feels weird to have this so early on in the game.

[DArby]

Maybe not the same thought as Snivy, actually.

[DArby]

Hm.

VOTE: Toxic

[DArby]

I changed my mind ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DArby]

Yeah. I think that’s good play advice. I got what I wanted out of my vote and now I want to move on to see what I can get out of my next vote.

[DArby]

Doesn’t hurt I townlean Gamma atp.

[DArby]

I got what I wanted out of my vote and now I want to move on to see what I can get out of my next vote.

@DArby

In case you aren't aware; it's sort of Not_mafia's shtick to hammer any wagon that reaches E-1 (which is why readtea phases his 768 as he does).

As such, you ought to have a higher bar about throwing your votes around if you are doing so to lend pressure to a slot you aren't sure about; given that that vote could lead to that wagon quickly becoming a lim without much further discussion.

If that was your intent, and you do think toxic should be the lim today, fine, but if this toxic lim does happen here, I don't want whether or not you were aware of this to be a factor in sorting your slot tomorrow, so now you know.

Lmao NM feels less like a player and more like a game mechanic. Thanks for the heads up. I’ll keep a closer eye on this thread then. I’m sold on a push not a lem.

[DArby]

Hm. Pt 2.

UNVOTE:

[DArby]

Even if I do end up on a toxic lem it does have a weird policy/rushed vibe to it. I’d like more to go into d2.

[DArby]

Even if I do end up on a toxic lem it does have a weird policy/rushed vibe to it. I’d like more to go into d2.

I don't see the point. I didn't want to rush it before, but now i don't care because i think his posts just now were scummy as fuck.

Wha? Even if god willing mod made Toxic confirmed scum, shouldn't we use the rest of d1 to figure out who else is most likely scum before we lose a town thru a nk?

[DArby]

Even if I do end up on a toxic lem it does have a weird policy/rushed vibe to it. I’d like more to go into d2.

I don't see the point. I didn't want to rush it before, but now i don't care because i think his posts just now were scummy as fuck.

Wha? Even if god willing mod made Toxic confirmed scum, shouldn't we use the rest of d1 to figure out who else is most likely scum before we lose a town thru a nk?

Whats your read on toxic then?

Null, but my read is separate from my point. Assuming competent scum, we'll (probably) lose a solid town slot in the nk. I don't want to lose the extra town before we have more to work with going into d2.

[DArby]

I'm kicking myself that I spent 30 odd pages labouring under a misunderstanding as to what 'backup ascetic' meant, and thinking it didn't make sense for there to be town ascetics - but now that I do, the scum strategy here is simple, and it puts in to focus why some slots have been trying to drive into a night phase as quickly as possible.

I know you are going to tell us it's an unfortunate coincidence, that you had no idea you were advocating to a course of action that leads to a scum advantage, and a significant one, and you have just been a useful idiot, but I think Occams Razor applies.

Are you saying you believe currently there are town ascetics?

[DArby]

Also do you interpret "backup" as scum vanilla/a different PR and then become ascetics or rather they have it passively?

[DArby]

That was @Val lol

[DArby]

I mean yeah that's how backup works, but scum don't benefit from having ascetic during the day so why would it matter how fast day ends. You're moon logicing

Day length won't matter any more than normal once it's activiated, but it sure does before.

If the ability for any hypothetical invests, or a jailkeep, or anything like that we have to target scum at night can be switched off once scum hit the right person or persons, the advantage scum get from keeping the discussion on D1 or D2 or however long to a minimum, and thus informing those PRs whom to target, is magnified 100-fold.

Anyone else here not understand? If so, I can try and explain further.

Actually this brings up an interesting question:

Let's say that scum only needs to kill one ascetic(?) to activate their ability and they do that n1. Do you think that all actions taken against scum n1 are voided?

[DArby]

That makes the most sense but I’d rather ask lol

[DArby]

You don't understand why scum might be chomping at the bit to start pew pew-ing and hope they hit the mark, while giving said time-limited invests as little to go on as possible?

No.
I'm honestly not thinking about scum's abilities at all.

I'm honestly not a fan of this (I didn't mean to mirror the writing style of the quoted post but it's funny so it stays)

You suck at reading me anyway.

I was townreading you until recently, you suck at reading the room!

Yeah, but i was considering when it actually matters.

So it only matters when he scum reads you?

[DArby]

So. I'm going to say this because last time I started it there was no traction and it was shot down hard and the next person who pushed it, I was defending and I didn't want to make that a thing because that was genuinely emotionally draining but.

I'm really fine with a Norwe lem today. I always have been and I stand by my origional points.

[DArby]

There really needs to be a search/bookmark post feature in this forum.

How come the lowposters always get showers of defense for doing nothing.
And scum typically do nothing.

Actually, it's interesting you say this. I mentioned this in 741, but it's been a common defense in this game so far to defer to their meta being the same as the reason people are actively scum hunting them.

You're an obvious case so I won't tell you what you already know.

I was the meta defender of Val against you so also won't delve into that.

T3, for the brief wagon that it was, mentioned this in 70 (kinda) and 107.

Alice, although not a defense, mentioned it in 693.

Toxic is a weird case because there is only one defense and it's the in meta sense of "the only scum thing I've done is doing nothing" 796, and 797.

What I find interesting about it is that while doing some digging, even with Toxic, I don't think they're wrong. Of course, I don't have the meta knowledge of being there during the games I looked at, so I'm always willing to be corrected. Alice, i think, I looked at the least so my argument is more malleable with her.

The reason my PoS is on you specifically as my strongest scum read has nothing to do with post count. I don't trust how you want to rush d1 (816), I don't trust how you seem to take a personal reading of the game, I really really don't trust 885, 887, and I absolutely do not like 896.

Most importaintly, I feel you are misdirecting the town but that's a more abstract argument to make and I have to leave but I wanted to at least post this. I can't speak for anyone else but for me I'm not defending low posters for doing that but I have suspicion on you and your play this game.

[DArby]

Im saying this with no real experience but as an educated guess I’d imagine there’s 3 mafia.

[DArby]

Wait. No 2

[DArby]

Two makes the most sense. The potential of power that scum has would be a lot with three.

[DArby]

I'm standing by the side of the road and giving a free pass for anyone to walk by.
Not sure how i am "standing in the way" of you/Dwlee/Joyle talking, but ok.

At what point do we make the argument for policy?

[DArby]

@DArby; what do you think of Alice thus far?

I was actually going to make an Alice post last night but 961 made no fucking sense to me but I still read it as town so I dropped it.

I’m on mobile before work so bare with me here but on further thinking I don’t like any of these wagons here for the same meta argument I’ve pointed out twice now. That includes Alice. Redtea made the Meta Argument in 1066 for Norwe and Dwlee for Alice in 1077. I cannot independently verify until midterms are over tho :/

That being said, I do townlean Alice so far and I’m starting to be of the opinion all of these wagons are to town. I dunno what to do about it except go after the scummiest of the lot since there’s only 2 days or so left and see how they flip. Then again, I’m biased against newbie 2080 so there’s that.

I do think Marci is wrong, tho. Alice’s 1074 is a correct statement and I see Alice’s posting as unfortunate timing. Out of all wagons mentioned (norwee, toxic, T3, Alice), Alice is the least interesting wagon to me.

[DArby]

There is no meta argument for why Toxic is scum.

Refer to my 910 about the toxic exception. I’d rather wait d2 for a toxic wagon. If his only real case is feels robotic and low post count a town!toxic flip gives us nothing.

That Darby post reads so wishy-washy

I hope it did cause I’m not really feeling what’s being dished out now, and I don’t want to be held to something I don’t believe in.

[DArby]

That’s crazy you got a point.

[DArby]

I mean obviously yeah but im not sold on scum!toxic. Im not sold on anyone. I’ll settle but even my top scum read feels flimsy.

[DArby]

Will you settle on a Toxic vote, Val?

[DArby]

@Toxic: either make a better defense or claim

I’m not sold on you personally, but I’m not going to be a white knight two times in one day phase.

[DArby]

Calling it now. Toxic gets replaced and the vote will be moved to a last minute wagon real close to the deadline.

[DArby]

Fuck it fine. We’re getting nowhere with Toxic right now.

T3

[DArby]

Fml.

VOTE: T3

[DArby]

gamma r u scum

What makes you say that? You’re the second person in 2 pages who said that and I’m not following.

[DArby]

We just are giving scum the whole roll call at this point huh

[DArby]

Toxic is still getting eliminated after he shows his reads or people get bored.

[DArby]

It’s less so the claim and more so the vibe.

At this point I don’t think anyone other than you is going today.

I’m giving my intent to E-1. NM will probably hammer if not someone else.

Any objections anyone?

[DArby]

So weird considering 1163

[DArby]

Fuck it then.

May the mod have mercy on your soul, my dude.

VOTE: Toxic

[DArby]

Kiiiiinda disappointed N_M isn’t living up to the hype :/

[DArby]

I feel this is a repeat of Newbie 2080 d1 except I’m not the one pushing it this time.

So town, only because I don’t buy the scum arguments. That being said I now no longer think a town!toxic flip is useless.

[DArby]

Someone please hammer the suspense is killing me :c

[DArby]

Nah. You're 0 for 2.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

[DArby]

I'm getting tired of these wagons going after low-hanging fruit with no real argument when this game has proven twice that isn't working. I'm willing to compromise on Alice or Norwe to push today.

[DArby]

Miswording on my part. I'm willing to compromise on Alice, but I'd prefer you.

[DArby]

VOTE: NM
he literally has no content in this game

See like this bothers me. Him flipping tells us nothing if he flips town and it's a gamble at this point voting him instead of pushing for people you can get content out of. I'd rather a push be on someone who has some credible scumminess.

Miswording on my part. I'm willing to compromise on Alice, but I'd prefer you.

If i were to flip scum, where would you go next? And who do you think are potential partners so far?

If you flipped read my FoS would fall on Gamma.

[DArby]

Miswording on my part. I'm willing to compromise on Alice, but I'd prefer you.

If i were to flip scum, where would you go next? And who do you think are potential partners so far?

He is either scum or manipulated by comunists.

Incorrect on both counts outside of maybe communism lol.

You flipping would be good push information on Jolyne either way and maybe redtea and marci. Not to mention I tr the latter two and (so far) trust their judgment more than most.

[DArby]

If you flipped read my FoS would fall on Gamma.

Why?
I'd really like to know whether you're looking ahead.

Fair question.

The reason why I'd be suspicious of Gamma is that a lot of their posts come across like they're sheeping you from a distance. A lot of your strategy this game is going after low hanging fruit. For bigger pushes there was first Val, then Toxic, now Snivy. Gamma is the only person who has voted in line with you. (See: 350, 1075, and although there isn't a vote count their 1243 to your 1201). Sure, they then switched to NM just now but it's in the same game plan as yours which, so far, has failed twice. They're clearly knowledgeable of the game so I find it a bit rough to believe that they have town motivations following the same broken strategy unless they'd want to act as a town voice of reason to make sure you come across more town with your playstyle.

236 also came across rather weird but because it pertained to me I didn't want to have it come across as I was having an emotional argument. Toxic also pointed it out in 921. I can absolutely see it as scum trying to control the narrative. What REALLY pinged me (but again I really didn't want to come across as petty) was Gamma's 1173 which felt tone def to their previous post.

There's also Gamma specifically adding Norwe to the town block in 193. If you flip red this has aged poorly.

I'm sure there's more but this is what's been on my mind regarding this game the last day or so.

[DArby]

What’s your case Alice, especially with Gamma?

[DArby]

Regardless of Gamma being scum or not. I don't see the connection between me and them.
Like Gamma didn't vote me at some point when a lot of people did. That could literally just be scum white knighting town!me, or it's town!Gamma seeing that it's not an wagon they wanna join.

What is this level 0 thinking.

I think this is shade at me? If so, again, that’s not my argument.

[DArby]

I think this is shade at me?

Nah.

Oh cool then

[DArby]

Tbh I’m interested in how both T3 and Jolyne are having the same play style rn for the same read. I don’t think this is out of character for either but I do think that it is interesting.

[DArby]

S+S with Joylne scumreading me and T3 townreading me for added distancing.
Is that what you’re getting at?

I’m getting at there’s something that’s not being said that should be said. And from the next few posts it looks like I’m right on one front. Two people saying the same thing in the same aloof way is too much of a coincidence.

[DArby]

Jesus fuck on a cracker this game is a mess but let me clean it up for a bit.

Alice is town. Bark up another tree, y’all.

VOTE: Jolyne

[DArby]

ok listen up fuckers

I AM A [REDACTED] MAILMAN WHO SENT MAIL TO NORWEE THAT HE SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED(i do not have gatedness that depends on target like simple)

i instant voted norwee because they did not follow the directions i sent to them

now lets bury him and move on to the next one ok?

Hint: The redacted is mafia. Maybe.

I’m just being cheeky at this point.

[DArby]

There is no way in hell this game will move forward unless I do something so I might as well lean all the way in.

I’m a 2 shot simple neapolitan. N2 I investigated Alice. She came back as a VT.

There is absolutely no way in hell Jolyne is hell and I’m am quite literally willing to die in this game for this push.

[DArby]

Jolyne is town.

Just woke up don’t @ me.

[DArby]

Wait no. That was a correction to the previous statement. I do not believe Jo is town.

I’m going to get ready for work now. Lol

[DArby]

There is no way in hell this game will move forward unless I do something so I might as well lean all the way in.

I’m a 2 shot simple neapolitan. N2 I investigated Alice. She came back as a VT.

There is absolutely no way in hell Jolyne is hell and I’m am quite literally willing to die in this game for this push.

What about N1?

I investigated Marci. I tend to go for crack shots n1 just in case I ended up being blindsided. I got no conclusion so I didn’t bring it up.

[DArby]

With no real disrespect the mail argument is kinda stupid. Ascetic was not in play n1 by default. That is not an issue with Norwee.

Also I think Jo said they’re an ascetic as well? (Can’t look it up right now). With how broken ascetic is and Vals role I don’t see why there’s 2+ town ascetic.

Plus a lot of other things this game that don’t add up on a vibe scale.

This is the only player I want flipped today.

[DArby]

Alright bet. Gimme your reads then. Who else do you think is scum?

[DArby]

As a heads up if there are 3 scum this is our last day before ELo.

If we game solve we need to actually game solve. I think we should have a couple more people fill in the blanks if possible.

[DArby]

Also if Jo is scum T3 is their partner

[DArby]

ok listen up fuckers

I AM A [REDACTED] MAILMAN WHO SENT MAIL TO NORWEE THAT HE SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED(i do not have gatedness that depends on target like simple)

i instant voted norwee because they did not follow the directions i sent to them

now lets bury him and move on to the next one ok?

i buy this

That's a good point, but we still have no proof of Jolyne's claim.

i don't think that's the kind of thing that koba lies about
like sure, it might be a really galaxy brain play
but i would be willing to bet that jolyne is at least a mailman

This specifically is what makes me say that.

[DArby]

darby if im scum with t3 why dont you help me bus him instead of pushing obvious town thx

Because

A) I have a stronger push on you and T3 is more conditional on your flip and.

B) You’re not obvious town + I don’t like being told what to do.

If by all means you can make a credible argument as to what the hell happened in your logic at the end of d2 in a town viewpoint I’m more than willing to consider backing off. As it stands now, you are the most suspicious person here.

Of course this is not the only thing I’m suspicious of, but it’s the most bewildering.

[DArby]

It makes no sense for me to be scum with t3 - do you think i hellbus d1? I wanted t3 for a long time

Irl stress made me not really effort as much in thought processb as i normally would + i was a good PR.

Also I saw you said i was acetic: im not. That was an attempt to save the obvious ascetic IC becsuse normally townies claim ascetic gamestart

Oh actually I can see the last part. Thank you for the clarification

The rest I still need time to process.

[DArby]

Hmmm.

Hmmmmm.

I think I’m wrong.

Maybe.

Jo is by no means obvi town but that last comment about saving Val does put things in perspective. Both in its delivery and explanation. I want to clear up d2’s end before I might move my vote.

[DArby]

Guess I need to do a meta deep dive tomorrow. Fun.

[DArby]

With no real disrespect the mail argument is kinda stupid. Ascetic was not in play n1 by default. That is not an issue with Norwee.

Also I think Jo said they’re an ascetic as well? (Can’t look it up right now). With how broken ascetic is and Vals role I don’t see why there’s 2+ town ascetic.

Plus a lot of other things this game that don’t add up on a vibe scale.

This is the only player I want flipped today.

fwiw Ascetic WAS in play N1, since that began after Val flipped.

Ik. The thing is that the order of operation should have that be the last factor.

[DArby]

I don't mind eliminating Jolyne, however I would like to solve the game today. There is a chance that Jolyne is something like vt who fakeclaimed mailman to get Norwee eliminated...

that doesn't sound very towny at all

That's a good point, but we still have no proof of Jolyne's claim.

i don't think that's the kind of thing that koba lies about
like sure, it might be a really galaxy brain play
but i would be willing to bet that jolyne is at least a mailman

you don't think they're experienced enough to pull it off?

Alice is comf town.

[DArby]

From what I’ve gathered I’m pretty sure. You can ask the mod tho.

[DArby]

Also if Alice and I were scum this would be a weird gambit from me. Why would I give a full role reveal when it’s not even ELo? If I survived the night I’m putting scum at bad position since I’d be in jeopardy. I’d take out a town today only to be taken out tomorrow night and my gambit would be worthless.

If I did this tomorrow after another town loss it’d make more sense. But it doesn’t now.

[DArby]

I knew it!

[DArby]

Also scum!me doesn’t even need to do this gambit we’ve been 0 for 2 (0 for 3 technically if you include Val because he would have died if he didn’t claim).

If Alice was scum, we have no connections so it wouldn’t come back to me. The only person I’d be worried about scum!me being connected to now is Norwe or maybe Gamma.

Alice was the push for today as said d2. Thats why I investigated her.

[DArby]

My hero solve rn is Jolyne/t3/Darby

Jolyne for duh reasons

T3 is chainsawing for Jolyne hella hard and his read on me is nonsense

DArby came into today ready to vote Jolyne pretty hard but is slowly posturing to hop off the wagon despite Jolyne ignoring my posts and their thought process around yesterday being total BS

I take back what I said. I’m staying firm for now. I post in a stream of consciousness so it’s normal to backtrack a hard scum read for me.

[DArby]

My hesitation was the astec thing. I don’t see a scum motivation for doing that so early unless that’s another gambit. Which at first I thought would be weird. 2 gambits in the same game? But on further thinking I think that can likely happen.

[DArby]

My hero solve rn is Jolyne/t3/Darby

Jolyne for duh reasons

T3 is chainsawing for Jolyne hella hard and his read on me is nonsense

DArby came into today ready to vote Jolyne pretty hard but is slowly posturing to hop off the wagon despite Jolyne ignoring my posts and their thought process around yesterday being total BS

I take back what I said. I’m staying firm for now. I post in a stream of consciousness so it’s normal to backtrack a hard scum read for me.

My hesitation was the astec thing. I don’t see a scum motivation for doing that so early unless that’s another gambit. Which at first I thought would be weird. 2 gambits in the same game? But on further thinking I think that can likely happen.

Scum motivation could be to look townie

Eh. I don’t really care about that.

[DArby]

If I get eliminated because I don’t look town that’s on me. Doing all of that is too much effort. It’s bad enough I’m going to have to do meta readings.

[DArby]

And again this is a stupid time to pull this gambit especially for town cred because it can easily backfire. If I wanted to look more town I’d choose a easier and less stupid way.

[DArby]

I was talking about your post asking why Jolyne would gambit ascetic

I’m not following, sorry. Are you saying I’m trying to look more townie by being less firm on my push because of Jo’s post?

[DArby]

OH. I completely misunderstood what you were saying.

[DArby]

But. If I’m in your poe final 3 why would I push my own scum partner where neither of us were in any real danger?

[DArby]

Preempting the push coming from someone else who realizes that the mailman -> guilty thing makes no sense on N1

That’s not where I started it. I started it because of what I brought up d2 with my Jo vote. Their reaction and insistence on Alice is why I investigated Alice. The mailman thing was a stronger case. I already was townread by most people I don’t need more towncred.

[DArby]

It’s at e-1

UNVOTE:

[DArby]

We’re missing like 2 (3?) players. We shouldn’t end the day now.

[DArby]

Another reason why I want to wait. I’d like to meta read tomorrow.

[DArby]

If Jo flips red I don’t think T3 would be the scum partner. Unless they’re really trying to play gambit on gambit.

I could see Jo/Dw but I have nothing to back it up.

[DArby]

Gg dwlee. I wish I could have quantified my scum read on you so I could use it in future games, but I’m content I at least gut solved it in the end.