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[Azaariah]

i have some thoughts on the game but won't say them yet VOTE: scorpio

[Azaariah]

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

[Azaariah]

my initial thoughts were that andante seemed very explain-y, overexplain-y but i wasn't reading closely so i'll give that a reassessment probably sometime tomorrow.

[Azaariah]

hmm ok so i read some more pages and the only things i've got are that i feel very strongly that retti is town or their playstyle just appeals to me so much that i refuse to believe they could be scum.
i want to believe oman is town
i find scorpius scummy but i don't know if i necessarily think it's coming from scum, if that makes sense
about andante, im going to hold off on that for now. i have thoughts, a lot of them actually, but i dont feel good saying them right now because im sure i'll talk myself out of them and that'll frustrate me very much.
i think i'll just keep waiting for something to really ping me because so far im not really feeling solid on any reads.

[Azaariah]

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

Cool, towny post, thank god that there's at least one person in this game that's an easy read that doesn't set the paranoid voices in the back of my head off.

well i think that's settled then. can we be given a mason pt please

[Azaariah]

that was a rvs vote if that wasn't clear. i specifically wrote vote: scorpio because i am a scorpio. either way i dont have any scumreads right now so im just leaving that vote there.

[Azaariah]

about andante, im going to hold off on that for now. i have thoughts, a lot of them actually, but i dont feel good saying them right now because im sure i'll talk myself out of them and that'll frustrate me very much.

It literally sounds like you wanna scumcase me. You had the paragraph on me, THEN went to go read?? Like, yeah if you want me to be scum, you can spin anything I say into it being scummy "omg andante is talking me out of my read on them" like, I'm serious, if that's the plan for this game, I will honestly have no part of that

why are you overreacting so much? i have specifically said i want to hold off on reading you and given my last game where i lead the push on you and let myself be swayed by you, why do you find any of this surprising?? i came in here and thought you were scum while thinking you were town in the other game. i just let scum you slip right out of my grasp and firmly believed you were town afterwards, to the point that i had you in my locktown category. now i am worried and trying my best to not make any hasty reads. i said my initial read and decided to go back and read again. is there a problem? i have said nothing specific about you so far besides my past experience with you and the fact that i will be rereading because of the game that just ended. i literally dont understand what your problem is when i haven't even given a firm read on you one way or another.

lets say i do want to scum case you and you are town, is that surprising? even just the paranoia from our last game together is enough to give me scumreads on you for the next five games. i dont understand your reaction to my posts - they make no sense.

hmm ok so i read some more pages and the only things i've got are that i feel very strongly that retti is town or their playstyle just appeals to me so much that i refuse to believe they could be scum.
i want to believe oman is town
i find scorpius scummy but i don't know if i necessarily think it's coming from scum, if that makes sense
about andante, im going to hold off on that for now. i have thoughts, a lot of them actually, but i dont feel good saying them right now because im sure i'll talk myself out of them and that'll frustrate me very much.
i think i'll just keep waiting for something to really ping me because so far im not really feeling solid on any reads.

Surely you didnt time that post specifically to pocket me right after I said I liked your post, right? >_>

im afraid im not capable of timing things that meticulously with my not consistent activity levels.

[Azaariah]

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

you make it sound like the above post was accompanied by a vote. but it wasn't for a reason.

[Azaariah]

Do you feel like this is similar to how Andante reacted to you pushing her in that other game?

it's not similar and i do think andante is town here. it's just frustrating that they seem to almost think im not good enough to legitimately scum read them. i'm not really sure how their thought process works though. i mean this argument has gotten me to 100% certainty andante is town. i will hate myself if im wrong but i dont think i am. besides that, it's just loud and infuriating on some levels.

[Azaariah]

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

you make it sound like the above post was accompanied by a vote. but it wasn't for a reason.

just like, out of interest, you seem to have a lot of time to react and defend yourself for someone who won't be around to elaborate on reads until tomorrow?
i think your current path is going to do a lot to make you look scummy, and v little to advance your solve. could you try and elaborate on your reads instead?

i wasn't really expecting to have to engage andante today so i wanted to just post some reads and see what people thought. but generally just focus on one or two people and do a little bit on others until i rack up more familiarity with the game. i got a lot of heat for this type of play in my last game as well. which reads would you like elaborations on?

[Azaariah]

which reads would you like elaborations on?

thoughts on the worst?

they could easily be scum. they're taking on a more guide/mentor character (i tend to associate these with scum) but i get that list mods tend to be that way. beyond that, im not sure because i haven't paid basically any attention to them because most of their posts could swing either way.

[Azaariah]

Sorry for losing my cool Aza... Probably should've tried to clarify stuff with you first, instead of running with my thought ._.

it's ok. i understand the feeling of feeling like i am very towny and being frustrated with anything close to a scum read on me. i don't understand the reaction but i understand the feeling that is probably causing it.

[Azaariah]

which reads would you like elaborations on?

thoughts on the worst?

they could easily be scum. they're taking on a more guide/mentor character (i tend to associate these with scum) but i get that list mods tend to be that way. beyond that, im not sure because i haven't paid basically any attention to them because most of their posts could swing either way.

mmk fair, Like, there's just this feeling to them, that for me, I think it's maf indicative. Like, everything about them is like "ok, majority is doing this, I agree!" and trying to joke around with like pocketing T3 Called me town in #168 when all I had done up to that point was "RVS SUCKS, LETS MOVE ON" idk, I try not to really out reads unless I'm really feeling them, but I'm kinda really feeling this one

well, i tend to find list mods scummy in general but list mods, especially ones that have been away from mafia for a while, tend to look extra scummy. im not sure how to explain why but that's what i think about this. i mean i think their list mod status plays in with the whole they are a list mod. their town game must be perfect mindset. not exactly that but that overall thought process.

[Azaariah]

i feel really good about andante and retti. i think that andante's replies really confused me in my last game read-wise. i spent a long time thinking about what alignment they came from but these posts here give me an immediate townread on her. retti just feels so towny especially with pointing out that they liked my posts. i dont think this type of nuance is fakable. im now sure that it is play style but they just happened to post something before i said anything (turn this situation around and retti would townread me back) but it's just not nuance that scum can typically fake. i could go on but i dont think there's a need because i feel very solid on both of these reads.

sorting through recent posts,
i want to say votes dont make my reads spicier but honestly, they probably do but it's not very nice to force people to talk like that. there's plenty of other ways to deal with someone who isn't even a solid scum read. in general, i find the worst scummy but i dont feel like the solve is that easy. it makes more sense to me that they are just scummy town but im not convinced of that completely. about being noncommittal, sure i'll take that. i dont like being too committal and it loses me reads that are correct and saves me from tunneling the wrong people. it sucks in a lot of ways but it's how i play.

i take back my town lean on oman because im now convinced that their posts could easily be fakable. theres a level of nuance that i townread but im certain now that it's fakable. oman could still be town but im not giving out a town pass for it.

half of me wants to say egix is town but the other half wants to say he is scum. i really like tvt/tvs type reads but honestly, they aren't alignment indicative. in general, i like how calm and composed they are because it feels towny but i also know it comes from scum more often. im having difficulty figuring out what my read is and whether it's being affected by the large amount of scumreads there. in the past minute, my read has flipped twice on egix and that's part of why i dont know what my read is at all. the recent flip flips to scum but that will probably flip a couple more times before settling down.

[Azaariah]

i also have two reads that i am very much committing to and will actively fight against either of their elims. im just explaining why i have no other reads at the moment. it's not noncommittal, it's explaining what im considering with most of these players and why there is no conclusion currently.

[Azaariah]

i also have two reads that i am very much committing to and will actively fight against either of their elims. im just explaining why i have no other reads at the moment. it's not noncommittal, it's explaining what im considering with most of these players and why there is no conclusion currently.

Do you think scum is more likely to post something like you did or would they just sit on what amounts
To essentially to “town reads”? In your opinion.

i dont think it depends on the person rather than the alignment.

[Azaariah]

i also have two reads that i am very much committing to and will actively fight against either of their elims. im just explaining why i have no other reads at the moment. it's not noncommittal, it's explaining what im considering with most of these players and why there is no conclusion currently.

Do you think scum is more likely to post something like you did or would they just sit on what amounts
To essentially to “town reads”? In your opinion.

i dont think it depends on the person rather than the alignment.

Forgive me. Can you clarify this?

i didn't completely understand the question but assumed you meant do i think scum are more likely to post long noncommittal reads or short and straight to the point reads. and my answer is that neither depends on alignment. someone who posts short direct reads as scum, aren't suddenly going to be pouring noncommittal reads out as town. someone who posts noncommittal reads as scum, isn't suddenly going to be posting short direct reads as town. it's really rare that there is a difference in one person's play that is something like that because of their alignment. what that means is that neither is a direct scum or town tell.

[Azaariah]

I'm fairly sure Oman is town.

Reading their posts they feel genuinely upset that large portions of the player list are not posting and resigned to town apathy possibly destroying the chances of town winning this game.

They haven't played on the site for a while and they come from a time when lurking was actually quite an issue for town win rates so I think this mindset probably is not faked.

It's not like 100% but they're one of my more confident townreads atp for what it's worth.

so you think that lurking is not an issue anymore? because i think that scum win way more often when town is not that active.

[Azaariah]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

oh hey i agree with this actually.

[Azaariah]

VOTE: dwlee

my initial reaction to their first posts was 100% scum. i'll try to explain it later.

[Azaariah]

scorpious, hold off for a little moment because your every post calls most of the people here scum but that cannot be correct even just based off of the game setup.

also, i think dwlee immediately assuming natalya is using meta is a red flag. if dwlee knows who natalya is, it's less of a red flag but if dwlee doesn't, it's a really big red flag

[Azaariah]

scorpious, hold off for a little moment because your every post calls most of the people here scum but that cannot be correct even just based off of the game setup.

also, i think dwlee immediately assuming natalya is using meta is a red flag. if dwlee knows who natalya is, it's less of a red flag but if dwlee doesn't, it's a really big red flag

Perhaps, maybe once I can post in this game without having it critiqued.

I think you are scum as well..

Tell me who isn’t..please

Sorry I have to revisit this.

What is the pre requisite amount of town reads I should have right now?

Are you saying that the ratio of scum/town reads is AI?

Also,

Telling me that the game setup doesn’t allow everyone to be scum is kinda dumb.

when you have too many scumreads, it just means your reads are impacted too much by scumreads on you. your reads are filled with too much paranoia. that is my experience with reads like your previous ones. i just wanted to point that out and hope you would think about it. that's all.

[Azaariah]

Natalya is saying I'm obvious as scum

That's meta

It's also not true but that's cause meta bad

what natalya said can be interpreted a couple different ways and i think you thinking this way first is scum indicative

[Azaariah]

Azaariah - Lots of interaction with Andante, then Retti and Scorpious. Whole first part of their game is the back and forth with Andante read. At first I was skeptical because of how they kind of open ended it with the "not dealing with Andante today" stuff. But then they continued to engage and came to the same conclusion I have so town points there. I do not like #95 where they say they "have thoughts on the game but will wait to say"... but also they voted for scorp in that post, so I guess not that open doored. I like their general playstyle and content to date... would like to know what the recent dwelee bit is about though.

i'm selectively reading up and i don't like this at all. the conclusion is fine. im not sure how to explain this actually. if someone could give me some more specific questions about this read, it might help me figure out how to explain this read.

but i am ready to explain the dwlee read if anyone wants that.

[Azaariah]

I went back and re-read 392 from worst now that I'm feeling better and have centered myself and can read with fresh eyes and all that, and I can see that yes, his treatment of Aza was exactly as he describes it and it doesn't look like it had the malign intentions I initially assumed it did. I was in too much of a "protecc Aza at all costs" mindset at that moment in time and was interpreting any expression of suspicion in the worst possible light, which is a very silly mindset.


I still feel apprehensive reading worst's posts for reasons I am completely unable to express in Actual Words, but I can't really justify voting him at this point in time.

UNVOTE:


I've been too focused on real-timing, I'm going to reread the game and see if I can get a clearer view of it, my reads are a mess right now.

i feel this way about ugly duck at the moment. hopefully i will be able to explain it to myself soon because right now all i've got are just uneasy gut feelings that i have no idea how to explain.

[Azaariah]

my initial thought is that i feel like ugly duck is coping my thought process around andante whether purposefully or not. i tend to see that as scummy because when town see something familiar, they are more likely to townread it. but at the same time, i don't think this read is actually that simple. there's something about that paragraph that i genuinely just dislike on a level that i dont know how to explain right now.

[Azaariah]

so you think scum me would lie about something like a rvs vote? i did have thoughts on the game but everything about every thought was solely about andante basically and i didn't want to talk about that yet. that first post with the vote was the equivalent of a prodge post for me.

someone said i might be scum for the bad vote on you. im not sure why you seem to think scum me would be so nervous about this one scum read on me that i could've easily fixed with a little extra content in my posts.

[Azaariah]

i have a hard time believing dwlee actually scumreads uglyducks. the wagon analysis is not my favorite either. i feel like there's just a bit too much focus on how much they are frustrated as opposed to content. in general, the reasons to vote people aren't going to be that good. votes are just ways to express that we agree with a certain thought. nothing more nothing less.

dwlee seems to flip between frustrated/ateing and extremely towny solving from these last couple posts and i feel like it's sort of the panic of a player who is struggling to figure out which scum tactic they should use. i might be thinking too much but im willing to mislim town on day one because i think this flip gives good information anyways. the worse case scenario is just a pr out and that sucks but we'll still be fine honestly.

[Azaariah]

it's not towny at all to be flipping between the two. feel free to explain your scum read on me later but wording is not a scum tell.

[Azaariah]

And too much frustrated to content ratio

Seriously

I have over 100 posts in a game I replaced into 5 days ago

and the only important posts that really need examining are the ones where you are under pressure. scum can hide fairly easily without pressure. pressure is what exposes scum for me at least.

[Azaariah]

i did read the "wagon analysis"
scum hop on is a really lazy way to sum up my posts in this game. i did not read the other reads because i didn't feel inclined to. in general, it feels like you are ateing but trying to cover it up with "solvy" posts. i find the solvy posts on their own pretty towny but with the ate, i don't feel good about either.

[Azaariah]

i did read the "wagon analysis"
scum hop on is a really lazy way to sum up my posts in this game. i did not read the other reads because i didn't feel inclined to. in general, it feels like you are ateing but trying to cover it up with "solvy" posts. i find the solvy posts on their own pretty towny but with the ate, i don't feel good about either.

Read my posts if you're town

Your vote on me was just a shitty hop on and you never followed up on your thing about me interpreting it as meta and why that was scummy. If you're town I'd expect you to follow up on tools to read people, not just show up when mentioned

i might, we'll see.

i did follow up. i said that it was scummy because it could be interpreted multiple ways and you chose to interpret it that way. you said that this was just the english language. there wasn't a point in replying to that. i'm somewhat actively reading along but im hesitant to be too active because it hurts my reads to engage too many people. it's easier to have more accurate reads while watching the game progress rather than being in it. that's the thought process behind that but yes, i do show up when mentioned.

[Azaariah]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

i think this can be interpreted as

dwlee is obvious scum
really is that obvious is the same as is really that obvious. that may be an indicator for meta but it's also just a word that emphasizes something
dwlee-scum means natalya thinks dwlee is scum. maybe the dash changes the meaning. im not sure on that but i didn't think meta until after it was mentioned like that.

that was how i read it. i understand that it can also be read as

dwlee as scum is so obvious

but i didn't read it that way when i first saw it which is why i think it's a subconscious decision that is incriminating for dwlee.

[Azaariah]

i really dont want to read the last couple pages but i will do it later. ugly duck votes all need to leave. without having read up yet, i am still pro-dwlee wagon but i will give it a read.

[Azaariah]

the oman-dwlee interaction specifically is what im mentioning.

[Azaariah]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

i think this can be interpreted as

dwlee is obvious scum
really is that obvious is the same as is really that obvious. that may be an indicator for meta but it's also just a word that emphasizes something
dwlee-scum means natalya thinks dwlee is scum. maybe the dash changes the meaning. im not sure on that but i didn't think meta until after it was mentioned like that.

that was how i read it. i understand that it can also be read as

dwlee as scum is so obvious

but i didn't read it that way when i first saw it which is why i think it's a subconscious decision that is incriminating for dwlee.

That would be a convincing argument for interpretation were it not for Natalya simultaneously trying to use meta to form a case on Dwlee anyway.

i honestly haven't paid too much attention to natalya. i was under the impression they started using meta after this post but i may be wrong.

[Azaariah]

im not sure if it's as damning as i originally thought anymore but that still doesn't really change my read on dwlee overall. i feel like there's a lot of desperation that just shouldn't have been there. this was a part of the ate but i think the desperation to dig themself out of the hole was pretty bad. someone earlier said that dwlee wasn't ateing but that isn't true at all. nearly every post from them has had some form of ate. being frustrated at natalya and oman was not really justified. neither was unreasonable in any way, there was no reason to be that frustrated.

i always have a hard time sorting people who are this emotional about scumreads but i don't actually think this emotion is real. it genuinely feels to me like an attempt to shake us off. im willing to go into post by post analysis though i really prefer not to because that was exactly what threw me off of andante last game. i see towny things in scum's words when i look too hard and that's annoying.

i want to say the emotion is getting to me because i feel for it very much but i dont want to let go of another read that im confident in. i will read up i swear. just not right now.

[Azaariah]

ok i've thought about it some more and i want to compare it to what andante did earlier. this feels like dwlee is trying to replicate that. im not completely sure if that's an accurate assessment but that's the best way im able to put it right now.

[Azaariah]

i have a hard time believing dwlee actually scumreads uglyducks. the wagon analysis is not my favorite either. i feel like there's just a bit too much focus on how much they are frustrated as opposed to content. in general, the reasons to vote people aren't going to be that good. votes are just ways to express that we agree with a certain thought. nothing more nothing less.

dwlee seems to flip between frustrated/ateing and extremely towny solving from these last couple posts and i feel like it's sort of the panic of a player who is struggling to figure out which scum tactic they should use. i might be thinking too much but im willing to mislim town on day one because i think this flip gives good information anyways. the worse case scenario is just a pr out and that sucks but we'll still be fine honestly.

i'm alright with being eliminated today. i am vt. to clear up a question i didn't answer earlier, this post was posted with the sole purpose of hinting at being a pr. i am not a pr and i was not planning on crumbing it fully but i figured it would be nice to put some questionable sentences in that would be the exact thought process of a town pr.

im probably not going to read up though i briefly skimmed everything. there's not much i want to address here. i will self hammer if everyone in the game has posted after this post and no one expresses a strong objection to me self hammering.