Mini Normal 2258 | Bunnies [Postgame]

[MathBlade]

It’s why shit always gets claimed before MELO/ELO. If you were an invest you’d be locked into IV scum like for reals

Since you aren’t you’re full of shit

[MathBlade]

I am okay losing if Dats+Andres.

We'll have a better idea as to whether it's them or not after tonight.

No we won’t because you’re scum.

You’ll just fake a guilty on someone

I see you don't know what the word confirmable means.

Like all the other shit you don't have a clue about.

I don’t believe you’re confirmable or you’d just do it and then we elim IV then Ari

[MathBlade]

I am okay losing if Dats+Andres.

We'll have a better idea as to whether it's them or not after tonight.

No we won’t because you’re scum.

You’ll just fake a guilty on someone

I see you don't know what the word confirmable means.

Like all the other shit you don't have a clue about.

I don’t believe you’re confirmable or you’d just do it and then we elim IV then Ari

I'd rather let scum kill iv.

You don't dictate how I play the game. I'd think you would have figured that out by now.

If you’re an invest then IV can’t be town too much power.

Oh I am not arguing for you. I am arguing to my teammates to elim you.

[MathBlade]

Scum can't risk iv getting a guilty and being able to sell it, if he's town.

He's the defacto kill if town.

If he lives, he's scum. End of.

That’s not how reality works. IV is disinterested whatever his alignment

You’ve now made yourself an excuse to kill me when my PoE is right then faking a guilty tomorrow.

Gah when I know you I do.

Pedit: I don’t believe you are confirmable. You’d have done it

[MathBlade]

I can claim confirmable infinite shot vig. Doesn’t make it true.

Now you have to listen to me right?

That’s how you fucking sound House

[MathBlade]

Gah when I know you I do.

The only thing you've proven is that you don't know shit.

I can't wait until you see my alignment so you realize just how much I mean every word I've said to you.

Ditto

Because if you’re town you’d rather be a bully and an anti town just to try to scream at me I suck versus actually winning

[MathBlade]

If you’re town and confirmable fucking do it

[MathBlade]

Gah when I know you I do.

The only thing you've proven is that you don't know shit.

I can't wait until you see my alignment so you realize just how much I mean every word I've said to you.

Ditto

Because if you’re town you’d rather be a bully and an anti town just to try to scream at me I suck versus actually winning

And what I said stands regardless of your alignment. You've treated ME like shit too.

Actively ignoring my meta since my return and making downright fallacious claims about me overall.

I don't play that shit.

I have not treated you like shit.

I read your claim and do not believe them.

That’s not treating you like shit.

Your play is shit right now.

If you’re a confirmable PR like IC you’d know IV is scum due to setup spec. There’d be no doubt

Instead you come up with another fake claim out of your ass when you don’t get your way

Either you’re wrong on IV D1 or wrong on Ari now

So based on your arrogance if you’re town you’ve decided to insult anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

I may suck my skills may be atrocious and discussable post game but there are lines I don’t cross.

[MathBlade]

If you’re town and confirmable fucking do it

You don't dictate my play.

That all you're getting in response to your petty demands the rest of this game.

Enjoy your flip today then.

[MathBlade]

Like if you Ari and IV are all dead I consider that pretty GG

Leaning you + IV right now.

[MathBlade]

Now I am logging out for the rest of the night before I say something I regret

But until and unless you prove your claim I don’t care

Good night

[MathBlade]

The exact motivation for punting as Scum with two Confirmed Town is obvious - you eliminate one of them and have their vote and voice silenced at the most opportune time.

iv is the defacto night kill if he is town.

He's an even night investigative.

It's an even night.

If he stays alive, it's because he's scum. Scum can't risk him landing a guilty.

Or wine.

This setup if IV is town is balanced with just a scum traitor.

However Andres is acting as if he trusts your claim.

I don’t.

I don’t think we’re going to elim scum unless something drastically changes.

I think strongly I die and town is forced to pick between House and IV tomorrow then when “confirmable” House is not confirmed I just shake me head from the dead thread.

VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

Lol.

Only Math could think he'd get killed over an actual investigative.

It’s a move I have done as scum and won.

[MathBlade]

You’d have to kill me because you have to if you’re scum

Can’t kill IV you need IV alive for your “woe is me I am town” fight you have planned
Can’t kill Ari she’s in your pocket or your buddy
Can’t kill Datisi and Andres as they are in the PoE

You would have to kill me

Going to bed now.

[MathBlade]

We need House to claim.

The “if scum have a roleblocker” argument they kill House doesn’t make sense.
They just roleblock House who never claimed and shoot me or IV.

Without House’s claim this seems like a stall for Ari not to die and I am back to Ari + House

[MathBlade]

though i just realized, if house is scum fakeclaiming, then he lowkey gets a free misyeet today if he now claims some nonsense like n4 vig

If he was N4 vig then he’d know IV was scum and then when IV claims gunsmith he just pushes for IV dead.

[MathBlade]

okay, so by that, house is either... a friendly neighbour (highly doubt an fn waits until night fucking 4 to act), or a vigilante. nothing else is "confirmable" via night action. or i guess he might be a night-specific ic that's gambiting...

and yes, i am openly speculating. i don't care.

Friendly neighbor with a forced night activation is the only one that makes any sort of sense.

But I don’t believe that true as then in that world House would know IV is scum because too much power.

So like ???

It’s either House fake claiming to try to save Ari (most likely) or just House scum.

[MathBlade]

If we know HOW House supposedly confirms himself our day play changes from it.

[MathBlade]

It’s either House fake claiming to try to save Ari (most likely) or just House scum.

He was literally just trying to get Andres to vote me so he could hammer me like two days ago.

Yeah so? Chicken is a thing.

[MathBlade]

i mean, the idea for vig!house to bait a quickhammer then pop a scumfuck is like, not a *bad* one

the problem is that now that the cat is out of the bag, we kinda need to coordinate and for that we need house to actually cooperate with us

+1

If House is a vig then he just claims it and then it’s between House and IV for a scum then we see where the bodies hit. Because with two even night town vigs there’s no way IV would be town.

If IV flips town that’s a scum claim from House and we go “told you”

[MathBlade]

House is on fake claim a billion at this point.

IV + House or House + Ari is where I am at unless House cooperates.

[MathBlade]

Day is not a valid normal modifier. Came across Day X IC in a prior normal ans it was brought up ans supposed to be revised so Day-5 IC I find incredibly unlikely.

IV + House only works if House and IV are not traitors and one is doctor.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=12951521#p12951521

[MathBlade]

Considering Isis is the one who designed this setup day 5 IC is like zero or setup is bastard and I don’t care?

[MathBlade]

ahhh okay, that's a good argument against house being day 5 ic

*crosses out "d5 ic" in my notebook, scribbles down "n4 ic?"*

That’s at least possible

But runs into IV would be lockscum from gunsmith claim and then House didn’t push IV until way later which doesn’t make sense.

So like gunsmith for scum would be a troll investigative too because it would hit me and SS and House so like ?

The simpler answer is House is scum.

And why would House fake claim? To save Ari

[MathBlade]

house fake claiming to save IV would make more sense than saving me if you look at when I was most likely to die.

The answer is pretty simple.

House claims how he is confirmable.

If it’s vig he shoots IV.
If it’s IC then he says so and it’s between House and IV for scum and we wait for the reveal.

That’s a possible argument. I think town is too low power like Datisi said but in that world I likely die so ? Datisi and Andres can figure it out.

[MathBlade]

If he chooses not to claim how he is confirmable and isn’t confirmed start of D5 that’s policy.

[MathBlade]

so either way we no-lim to let house confirm himself? if he doesn't then we policy him tomm?

Depends on what his claim is.

If he doesn’t claim anything I am down to turbo yeet him today as any confirmable role doesn’t match his play.

It’s pretty much I die then we repeat tomorrow and elim House is what I think will happen

But what should happen is elim House

[MathBlade]

no, because no-yeeting in final 6 with a vig that can shoot is throwing

but there's obviously issues on whether house is claiming vig and if we trust him and etc etc so

This and House wanted no elim hard

So House vig is very unlikely

[MathBlade]

no, because no-yeeting in final 6 with a vig that can shoot is throwing

but there's obviously issues on whether house is claiming vig and if we trust him and etc etc so

if house is scum and we believe his vig claim don't we just lose if we yeet someone?

Same is true of any scum we believe

That’s why we need his claim to sort it

[MathBlade]

I also have issues with House fake-claiming vig to draw a nightkill and then now claiming he's a confirmable TPR

And mason.

Like how many fake claims are we on now?

[MathBlade]

So we agree?

House claims how he is confirmable?

If he is then saying how scum are still in the same dilemma as before. So nothing lost.

[MathBlade]

Actually if House was informed a gunsmith existed it makes sense for his D2 fake claim of vig.

VOTE: House

Then today tries to fake claim vig again

Ari pushes IV as scum to test the waters

House doesn’t want IV to flip because then he can’t fake claim vig anymore

House doesn’t want to claim specifics because he’s not

Ari + House

[MathBlade]

An argument can be made for IV + House as well

But the odds of House’s claim being real are just…like not?

[MathBlade]

i think house is town on play, but unless he gets in here, roleclaims, and clarifies why he fakeclaimed vig in order to ~draw the nightkill~ when he is now claiming a confirmable power role, i will vote him with no remorse and if we lose, it will be on him

Yep.

Down for this.

[MathBlade]

I have thoughts about how this line of play could make sense from town!house but Mathblade will just scream that I'm scum with house so I feel no reason to state them.

Probably for the best.

If this is town House I am beyond my give a fucks.

He can explain or die.

Is it possible House is town who fake claims mason and then fake claims vig D2 and then real claims something confirmable D4/fake claims again? Yes

But I am so beyond the point of caring about the House who cried wolf.

[MathBlade]

in my experience, toxic endgames with hyperposting usually involves a bunch of loud town and scum sitting back while town kill each other

which would make the town:

MathBlade Jan 28, 08:37pm Feb 14, 10:38am 0 days 0 hours 1036
House Jan 22, 10:08pm Feb 14, 03:34am 0 days 7 hours 937
Aristeia Jan 22, 09:57pm Feb 14, 10:37am 0 days 0 hours 795
Datisi Jan 23, 05:24am Feb 14, 10:36am 0 days 0 hours 576

and if we lose to andres/IV then it's whatever.

I am okay losing to an IV + Andres team. So yeah.

[MathBlade]

Especially since Andres is the most protown of the PoE followed by Datisi.

[MathBlade]

what makes Andres protown?

Thought processes and posts

Mechanically he’s been saying the things I am thinking before I do
If he is scum and House town he has no reason to try to get House to see why I don’t believe him and get him to back off

Lots of little things like that.

[MathBlade]

@House, I haven’t read everything, so you’ll have to excuse me if you’ve already explained this, but how can your role only be confirmable N4? And if your solve contained Me + Datisi/IV, why was your vote ever on Mathblade? Like what is the objective of such a vote? Aren’t you risking a straight up loss from your POV if another player that is Town aligned reads what you’re putting out there? And why would you only make these comments at such time as the game has been on the brink for a while with Aristeia for example near execution, with you threatening to “end the game” by hammering Aristeia? Can you understand why anyone would be skeptical of anything you’re writing right now? The exact motivation for punting as Scum with two Confirmed Town is obvious - you eliminate one of them and have their vote and voice silenced at the most opportune time. So I think it’s only sensible that you answer the question as to why your claim should be trusted.

I also don’t understand why instead of trying to work with Mathblade, you’re resorting to practically the same sorts of attacks Aristeia was engaged in earlier today. Don’t you need Mathblade to win the game, based on the POE you’ve put out there? So why are you behaving as if sidelining Mathblade is sensible? This doesn’t make sense from a Town perspective. Or at least from the perspective of a Town player playing purely to their win condition.

This post here is really good.

Same with the AtE post regarding you.

Sure it may be buddying but it’s buddying that doesn’t make sense for scum to me.

[MathBlade]

It's actually somewhat similar to how Koba played with you in WF.

WF?

[MathBlade]

White Flag, the Jester game I was talking about with you

How exactly is Andres making posts with my thoughts before I post them aloud buddying me similar to Koba in WF?

[MathBlade]

White Flag, the Jester game I was talking about with you

How exactly is Andres making posts with my thoughts before I post them aloud buddying me similar to Koba in WF?

Rescinded.

[MathBlade]

"I also don’t understand why instead of trying to work with Mathblade, you’re resorting to practically the same sorts of attacks Aristeia was engaged in earlier today. Don’t you need Mathblade to win the game, based on the POE you’ve put out there? So why are you behaving as if sidelining Mathblade is sensible? This doesn’t make sense from a Town perspective. Or at least from the perspective of a Town player playing purely to their win condition."

This line is actually designed AtE. Let me explain why.

Go for it. Seems like Andres is just asking a good strategic question.

[MathBlade]

I have to go to work but will digest this further.

This really feels like a stretch though the first time I read this.

This feels like you’re saying Andres is scum for asking a sorting question to House? Iirc House was in Andres’s PoE.

[MathBlade]

This feels like you’re saying Andres is scum for asking a sorting question to House? Iirc House was in Andres’s PoE.

I'm saying the way it is phrased is designed to pocket you specifically.

It doesn't think critically about House's alignment in the way he would if House is unsorted in his POE.

Also according to his statements he's already sorted House as scum with me so it makes even less sense for him to make that statement to House.

I will think about it after work.

Right now please sort House and his lack of claim here. I gotta go

[MathBlade]

I don't know why I'm still playing anymore atp

It’s pretty obvious House is full of shit

You me and Datisi broke down why.

If House is confirmable with a night action then he can say what night action.

[MathBlade]

I understand how you feel House because I feel the exact same way at times and sometimes I think maybe it's not worth it to put in the effort because winning or losing doesn't actually mean all that much in the end.

That’s where I am at too

I put in a ton of effort D2 and theorize what happened

Only to get insulted and my strategy sucks

Only to get proven right and not apologized to

Then D3 vote the person you call scum

Then D4 get insulted again when they don’t even admit they were wrong D2

I have no idea why I care sometimes.

[MathBlade]

House if you're not a VT why were you ok with trying to get Andres to vote me and kill me earlier? I don't really understand that line of play.

Apathy.

I want this fucking game over because Math has made it extremely unfun.

Can you just real-claim now?

Tomorrow.

Either I'm limmed and this game is over...

I die tonight and this game is over...

... or everyone wakes up to a vastly different landscape tomorrow.

Thank Mathblade for my utter contempt. He pushed me to this.

Yes, it’s my fault for not believing the mason mod IC Vigilante Fruit Vendor Cop Tracker Watcher /s

[MathBlade]

I put in a ton of effort D2 and theorize what happened

You ended day 2 before 24 hours had passed and then you blamed me for skitter being flashelimmed before I could even talk to her/sort her.

You then said "she deserved to die" for her play when all she did was doubt your innocence.

Wow short memory

That’s about scum being on the Lap wagon

Which I said immediately on replace in

And to which you insulted my play similar to how you opened D4

[MathBlade]

But no,

Nothing math ever does is good

His play is always bad

Math is bad

Math sucks

It’s pretty much the go to rather than caring what I say

So I have to be louder

Which then they repeat I suck

Which then is unfounded as the argument was true

Which then repeats.

[MathBlade]

So no quite frankly unless you’re willing to look at the stick in your eye I don’t give a shit about anyone saying I suck here

[MathBlade]

How would you hammer No yeet it’s just Datisi and House yeah?

[MathBlade]

3 votes is a hammer on yeet in 6p

Oh I thought it needed 4.

[MathBlade]

It’s less going along with it and more seeing where the wind blows

Intent to hammer no elim even though I disagree as a majority of players said no elim should already be a thing

[MathBlade]

And yet, there's literally nothing for me as scum to gain by pushing the mislim off a day.

You can correct the mod's departure from site meta, or vote the guy that's literally confirmed town on d5. I don't really care.

While you kick your options around, try to pinpoint what I could have possibly hoped to achieve as scum with any of my lies, and ask yourself who would be more comfortable with outlandish play than someone who knows they can rip a mislim attempt on themselves to shreds with their role.

There’s everything to gain if you’re scum.

[MathBlade]

And yet, there's literally nothing for me as scum to gain by pushing the mislim off a day.

The problem is, this isn’t true.

I already indicated I’m voting No Execution. It’s the right thing to do. So let’s get on with it.

VOTE: No Execution

We really should be elimming House here.

But short of that no elim

[MathBlade]

And yet, there's literally nothing for me as scum to gain by pushing the mislim off a day.

You can correct the mod's departure from site meta, or vote the guy that's literally confirmed town on d5. I don't really care.

While you kick your options around, try to pinpoint what I could have possibly hoped to achieve as scum with any of my lies, and ask yourself who would be more comfortable with outlandish play than someone who knows they can rip a mislim attempt on themselves to shreds with their role.

There’s everything to gain if you’re scum.

In your world where scum claims Masons with scum and buses on d1, then begs for a vig bullet on n2, sure there is.

Yes it’s more probable than town you fake claiming 2-3 times.

[MathBlade]

And yet, there's literally nothing for me as scum to gain by pushing the mislim off a day.

You can correct the mod's departure from site meta, or vote the guy that's literally confirmed town on d5. I don't really care.

While you kick your options around, try to pinpoint what I could have possibly hoped to achieve as scum with any of my lies, and ask yourself who would be more comfortable with outlandish play than someone who knows they can rip a mislim attempt on themselves to shreds with their role.

There’s everything to gain if you’re scum.

In your world where scum claims Masons with scum and buses on d1, then begs for a vig bullet on n2, sure there is.

Yes it’s more probable than town you fake claiming 2-3 times.

Says the guy that can't point to a single pro-scum motive for any of them.

Already did

[MathBlade]

To be clear Andres is only scum with Ari but I don’t think he is. Since House more likely is.

I already did before

Let’s have the mod put up the no elim already and pray I am dead so I don’t have to deal with this anymore

[MathBlade]

Let’s have the mod put up the no elim already and pray I am dead

The only way you can seriously think you'd die over an even night gunsmith on n4 is it you scumread iv.

Been over this….

Asked and answered

I am tired of repeating the same damn shit with you and you saying the same damn thing over again

[MathBlade]

Let’s have the mod put up the no elim already and pray I am dead

The only way you can seriously think you'd die over an even night gunsmith on n4 is it you scumread iv.

Been over this….

Asked and answered

I am tired of repeating the same damn shit with you and you saying the same damn thing over again

Nonsense that doesn't add up is not an answer.

1) It makes sense
2) Even if it didn’t make sense it’s still an answer you just don’t like it
3) Even when I try to force you being town your actions don’t match the actions I would expect

[MathBlade]

3) Even when I try to force you being town your actions don’t match the actions I would expect

That's only because you've actively ignored my 2021 meta entirely.

Which is why this is the last time I'm putting myself through this with you.

It’s not about meta house FFS

I can’t imagine anyone being as completely antitown as you are and being town.

[MathBlade]

If you’re town you could try not being anti town and having eleven billion fake claims.

[MathBlade]

Still working. Kinda surprised House died.

I could tell he was lying but the fact he was lying town confuses me to no end.

I do not get what he did at all and am back to Ari Andres or Ari IV.

I kinda don’t see Ari town here.

But then again House was town and practically game threw so I am just going to reread the game a fourth time after work.

[MathBlade]

Uh wtf?

No result on Aristeia

Do I actually have to do something now

No result or no gun

[MathBlade]

And yes I would prefer if you did something IV

[MathBlade]

I am thinking no result means one of three things
1) IV is scum lying about what Ari would check as
2) IV is town and honest and Ari is ascetic scum
3) Scum have a roleblocker and blocked IV.

It’s at this point I find it unlikely IV is scum gunsmith as IV could have kept silent, SS shoots House for lying about being a vig and then just goes on their way. I don’t see the incentive for scum to out SS there.

Ari you scumread IV it seems. Why would scum IV do this?

[MathBlade]

Hi sorry guys - this game has been moving rly fast and I haven’t put much time here

I have information that Something Smart is probably scum, I would maybe be like 95% on it

VOTE: Something Smart

[MathBlade]

okay, past the initial hatred of my life, what are we left with

if iv is scum who's bullshitting about his no-result, then the town is the disloyal weak nonsense, the n2 vig, and the named townie. this feels... it feels bad.

if iv is town, that means scum has to have some sorta action-stopping power. either ascetic or roleblocker (or something similar to it). if it were ascetic (with ari being it), then scum was betting a lot last night on iv checking ari, which would probably be a bad choice considering he found me the most suspicious.

if there's a blocker in play... we once again go back to our d2 dilemma.

Yay someone gets my question!

Woo hoo!

Okay so yeah IV feels disinterested town by play. So kinda means it’s you Ari or Datisi Ari.

But see House was pushing you Andres.

I kinda owe it to him to try to figure out that solve as much as I tried yesterday and couldn’t see it

[MathBlade]

i will probably cry actual physical tears if math turns out to be scum and baltar decided to check him and got blocked

like, actual unironic tears

I have actual standards when I play scum.

You’re more than welcome to not take my word for it, but I take no elim every time it’s offered as it was substandard.

I probably should have just kept my vote on Ari.

[MathBlade]

Okay so yeah IV feels disinterested town by play. So kinda means it’s you Ari or Datisi Ari.

it's me/ari... or me/ari?

Brain fart Ari+you or Ari + Andres sorry I was looking at an Andres post

[MathBlade]

I think more likely IV/Andres than IV/You around 80/20

**Fake vote Ari**

[MathBlade]

one shot novice vig + weak fruit vendor + EN Gunsmith versus Scum with Roleblocker

does this really make less sense than one shot novice vig + weak fruit vendor period?

like, genuine question, not trying to sound like an ass

+1 agreed.

[MathBlade]

one shot novice vig + weak fruit vendor + EN Gunsmith versus Scum with Roleblocker

does this really make less sense than one shot novice vig + weak fruit vendor period?

like, genuine question, not trying to sound like an ass

yes because a roleblocker/ascetic means the fruit vendor is not an absolute power role and instead can be a liability which is really bad given the lack of other power roles to make up for it.

The ascetic doctor/ascetic traitor actually makes more sense than a roleblocker because then scum get the fake inno I have said the setup asked for. Usually as standard practice that gets claimed D1 though.

[MathBlade]

but if iv is scum, who is he scum with? i think andres is the only option, because i have a hard time buying that scum!iv goes "yknow what yeah i'mma just sheep mathblade whatever"

uhh, maybe if he said that at the time mathblade was wrong... would require checking, maybe later

IV + me always no elims though because then I could kill Andres who vouches for me. Killing my vouch lends me town credence

Similar to why I don’t TR Ari for House dying. It’s NAI

[MathBlade]

i am not arguing you two are partners

I misunderstood then.

But yeah if IV is scum it’s probably with Andres, I just don’t think IV is scum here.

[MathBlade]

It’s more likely if Ari is town that scum have a roleblocker and for some reason Dat+Andres didn’t hammer.

It’s like all worlds point to Andres but he feels town.

Andres come town tell.

[MathBlade]

Similar to why I don’t TR Ari for House dying. It’s NAI

It actually makes me locktown

Why? I literally explained why it’s NAI?

[MathBlade]

do you think house is going to wake up today and decide to flip his read on me?

I think if he lived he would. Because then he wouldn’t be confirmed because VT.

Combined with the lack of a result on you I think he’d change his read yeah.

[MathBlade]

okay, past the initial hatred of my life, what are we left with

if iv is scum who's bullshitting about his no-result, then the town is the disloyal weak nonsense, the n2 vig, and the named townie. this feels... it feels bad.

if iv is town, that means scum has to have some sorta action-stopping power. either ascetic or roleblocker (or something similar to it). if it were ascetic (with ari being it), then scum was betting a lot last night on iv checking ari, which would probably be a bad choice considering he found me the most suspicious.

if there's a blocker in play... we once again go back to our d2 dilemma.

I think that the second option is unlikely. Either IV is Scum, or the Scum acted to stop IV. If IV hit an Ascetic Scum, we’re so unlucky I don’t even want to think about it.

If Ari is ascetic scum you realize I really want your head right?

[MathBlade]

The point is which dead Townie is right if I am not supposed to listen to myself

Is it Koba => Lap/IV/ wrong person, unlikely right
Frogger/Nero => Ari + Dat
Or House => Dat + Andres.

[MathBlade]

Scum!Me shoots Mathblade 1000 times out of 1000 there.

Can you not just rely on this argument? I don’t think you have the greatest incentive to shoot House, other than so you can scream nonstop that you don’t do this and to trust you. So it’s somewhat WIFOMy. It was unclear to me what the hell kind of role House could possibly have if he actually had a role, but a Scum you might not have wanted to take the chance. I probably don’t shoot in the POE, and always shoot one of Mathblade / IV. The fact they’re both here is baffling. If the Scum knew they could neutralize IV, why not shoot Mathblade then? I’m clearly missing something.

Because they think either A> That I miselim Ari
Or B> Think they can win in second elo.

[MathBlade]

his entire iso all of day four was swearing up and down that I'm locktown and eliminating me ends the game and he spent all day insulting you for being a moron for wanting to eliminate me.

Do you really think he wakes up on Day 5 and says "nah that was just for show actually Ari is scum"

Everything House did was a giant show. They said they would vote whoever they ended up with in ELo with Mathblade, and ended yesterday voting for Mathblade prior to the No Execution votes.

okay, past the initial hatred of my life, what are we left with

if iv is scum who's bullshitting about his no-result, then the town is the disloyal weak nonsense, the n2 vig, and the named townie. this feels... it feels bad.

if iv is town, that means scum has to have some sorta action-stopping power. either ascetic or roleblocker (or something similar to it). if it were ascetic (with ari being it), then scum was betting a lot last night on iv checking ari, which would probably be a bad choice considering he found me the most suspicious.

if there's a blocker in play... we once again go back to our d2 dilemma.

I think that the second option is unlikely. Either IV is Scum, or the Scum acted to stop IV. If IV hit an Ascetic Scum, we’re so unlucky I don’t even want to think about it.

If Ari is ascetic scum you realize I really want your head right?

I’m just trying to be objective. It’s not the most likely outcome. You know this too. Sure, it’s possible. But it’s just so unlucky if it’s true. And I don’t think the Scum take a chance like that.

Why would it be unlucky? Seems very probable.

I think there are four options:

IV town Ari scum => Ascetic scum is most likely here. A roleblock nerfs power too much like Datisi said.
IV town Ari town => This necessitates an even night roleblocker or Jailkeeper or rolestopper. Something of the sort.
IV scum Ari town => Means that IV thought he had an SS miselim but then how does he explain lack of death and a result N4? He wasn’t wagoned then IIRC just one or two suggestions.
IV scum Ari scum => We get a scum either way?

[MathBlade]

Can you not just rely on this argument? I don’t think you have the greatest incentive to shoot House, other than so you can scream nonstop that you don’t do this and to trust you. So it’s somewhat WIFOMy. It was unclear to me what the hell kind of role House could possibly have if he actually had a role, but a Scum you might not have wanted to take the chance.

It is the truth. I never shoot House here.

And being able to talk about me not shooting house is not useful because it doesn't actually do anything for me since Mathblade doesn't

care

about it - he will think it is NAI.

It is 1000% better for scum!me to shoot mathblade, get rid of him wanting to kill me and have house!town alive to defend me.

What if you couldn’t shoot though? If you’re traitor the argument is a bad one.

[MathBlade]

Can you not just rely on this argument? I don’t think you have the greatest incentive to shoot House, other than so you can scream nonstop that you don’t do this and to trust you. So it’s somewhat WIFOMy. It was unclear to me what the hell kind of role House could possibly have if he actually had a role, but a Scum you might not have wanted to take the chance.

It is the truth. I never shoot House here.

And being able to talk about me not shooting house is not useful because it doesn't actually do anything for me since Mathblade doesn't

care

about it - he will think it is NAI.

It is 1000% better for scum!me to shoot mathblade, get rid of him wanting to kill me and have house!town alive to defend me.

What if you couldn’t shoot though? If you’re traitor the argument is a bad one.

Ok if I'm a traitor who's the main scum and why did that main scum not shoot IV or you?

Could be any of the other three.

I can make arguments for any of them. That’s the issue

I can make a good argument for any possible duo here

It’s just more likely you’re scum and I am pointing out a flaw in your logic. A flaw I typically do as scum. Start from a common assumption people assume true (eg scum can pick who is the NK) and then use that assumption to try to argue what you want.

[MathBlade]

I highly doubt IV is town here because this game does not make any sense if IV is town.

It doesn’t make any sense if he is scum though.

[MathBlade]

okay, past the initial hatred of my life, what are we left with

if iv is scum who's bullshitting about his no-result, then the town is the disloyal weak nonsense, the n2 vig, and the named townie. this feels... it feels bad.

if iv is town, that means scum has to have some sorta action-stopping power. either ascetic or roleblocker (or something similar to it). if it were ascetic (with ari being it), then scum was betting a lot last night on iv checking ari, which would probably be a bad choice considering he found me the most suspicious.

if there's a blocker in play... we once again go back to our d2 dilemma.

@Ari here this is the because

If you’re town it’s pretty much Dats Andres

[MathBlade]

I agree with your post Ari. I don’t think IV scum happens.

It’s why you ascetic scum is most likely.

That way the inno requires you to be checked by a PR.

[MathBlade]

Like either combined ascetic doctor or just one scum ascetic another scum doctor makes more sense than having a PR that can stop the checks/vigs.

[MathBlade]

if you think i'm most likely scum just vote for me

it will save you time from figuring out who my imaginary partner is

Not protown in case I die

[MathBlade]

I mean you won't die the game will just end

I really wish you’d stop doing shit like this if you’re town
Makes me instantly think you’re a goon

Same with the “I don’t shoot House” arguments make me think you’re a traitor

It feels so slimy.

[MathBlade]

I mean you won't die the game will just end

I really wish you’d stop doing shit like this if you’re town
Makes me instantly think you’re a goon with a traitor

Same with the “I don’t shoot House” arguments make me think you’re a traitor

It feels so slimy.

Ebwop

[MathBlade]

Agreed I cannot be cleared on effort.

I should be cleared on A50’s intro claim of named Townie and my play.

And I already have explained how House dies so….

[MathBlade]

And I already have explained how House dies so….

if you/iv are "mechclear" why does scum shoot House?

I have already said why

Either you are town or scum expect to win second elo.

[MathBlade]

And I already have explained how House dies so….

if you/iv are "mechclear" why does scum shoot House?

I have already said why

Either you are town or scum expect to win second elo.

this answer doesn't make sense to me. please expand on it.

Scum going into elo know they have to get a town elim today or the next day.

So then either you’re town which means they would win today
Or
You’re scum and killing House (meaning Andres is more likely your partner) views you as an acceptable loss.

[MathBlade]

Or it is you + IV and me dying means that IV gets sussed and you get sussed which is lose lose

[MathBlade]

you have made it quite clear you think i am scum so the ari is town explanation makes no sense from you

I think it’s most likely you’re scum

I am not excluding town you worlds.

[MathBlade]

Because then you have to take House another day.

Assume you kill IV

Then elo 1 is you me Datisi Andres House. You’d be pinning your chances of success on the slim margin that we miselim in whoever is not your partner in Datisi/Andres. IV town GS flip locks in me miller so you can’t push there and can’t push House. You’re locked into a set world.

Assume you kill me

Then elo 1 is iv Datisi you Andres House. My flip lends credence to IV town. So again same scenario.

But both cases House is in control of the elim and likely either turns on you or tries to push Datisi or Andres through.

None of that is good for a you+Dat or you+Andres pairing

[MathBlade]

locks in me miller

i know arguing with math is absolutely pointless but i have to point out that in no universe is this the case

And how exactly not?

Do you suppose A50 divined the claim on D1 without prompting based on…?

[MathBlade]

roles do not have to have "a point" in a setup

scum sometimes claims nonsense bullshit solely because town eats it up

a50 is known for fakeclaiming

This is an Isis setup though.

Everything she designs has a point.

And yes, scum sometimes do claim bullshit, but that’s generally with an understanding of how things are.

I don’t recall A50 having fakeclaimed in a game I was in. Maybe his meta changed but I know he didn’t fake claim here

[MathBlade]

I just realized something

it makes 0 sense for iv to investigate me

he had his vote parked on me at mylo with mathblade for a whole day

if im town and hes town, i should be quickhammered from his pov unless mathblade is scum

he clearly doesnt think mathblade is scum

so why would iv town even investigate someone who from his pov should be locked scum ?

it literally makes 0 sense he shouldve targetted either datisi or andres to look for potential partner.

good shit

iv get in here and start doing things

It’s like not though?

I unvoted midday yesterday and swapped to House

[MathBlade]

This kinda makes me wonder if it’s Dat + Andres again.

[MathBlade]

how is that fact relevant to literally ANYTHING that ari wrote there

Ari’s argument is that IV thought Ari was lock scum because I and IV were voting Ari that IV should have been looking for IV’s partner

But I unvoted Ari do the premise doesn’t hold.

[MathBlade]

But I could see you trying to push Ari towards voting IV in a you + Andres world. It’s the only world I see you scum in

[MathBlade]

how is that fact relevant to literally ANYTHING that ari wrote there

Ari’s argument is that IV thought Ari was lock scum because I and IV were voting Ari that IV should have been looking for Ari’s partner

But I unvoted Ari do the premise doesn’t hold.

Ebwop

[MathBlade]

the vote was there long enough for me and andres to hammer

i was around for the whole day and if i'm scum who can hammer, i watch the thread like a hawk

there's no need for me to guide ari towards iv when i can literally just sit on my ass and wait for you to vote her

gn for real

No it wasn’t. You weren’t online at the same time based on posts in thread.

[MathBlade]

I don't understand how mathblade can be this resistant to an IV!scum world

Imho this doesn’t pass normal review if IV scum

Mechanics > reads almost always barring a good exception

“Sketch” is not a good exception to me

[MathBlade]

the only way i can believe andres/dats is if theres a traitor but theres no multitasking so uh how does scum kill and roleblock iv?

Traitor roleblocks IV
Scum goon kills House

That’s how that would happen in a town you world.

[MathBlade]

Either that or Roleblocker/JK/other action + goon

It’s a matter of what makes most sense and deciding and hoping I am right.

[MathBlade]

IV who do you think is scum?

[MathBlade]

Okay well can you both not just go back and forth endlessly? I want to be able to catch up when I have more time and that’s not until later. I need to work.

Pokes Andres.

You asked me to be quiet since then. I have been.

Any thoughts?

[MathBlade]

Datisi do you think Andres is scum?

[MathBlade]

i don't know, sorry. i want to see whatever he comes up with today.

Kinda going through the pairs I kinda feel one of Andres or Ari has to be

IV => Unlikely scum then no TPRs plus no scum motive to CC about House not being vig.

You => Only make sense with Ari/Andres

Ari => Mechanically likely and likely scum by play.
Andres => Last few posts have felt odd especially in relation to you. Don’t like how after I suggested you + Andres, he ghosted and then didn’t check back in.

[MathBlade]

IV => Unlikely scum then no TPRs plus no scum motive to CC about House not being vig.

you find it more likely that iv is a role that can get maybe one result, has at least two false results if not more, and scum gets a full on fucking blocker as compensation?

I don’t think scum have a full on blocker as compensation.
Ari ascetic makes more sense than scum having an RB.
However in terms of most likely to least likely mechanically
IV town Ari ascetic
IV town Ari NAI scum have RB
IV scum Ari town
IV scum Ari scum

[MathBlade]

IV scum means we have a one shot invest in essence and normals are almost always overpowered so I don’t think IV can be scum here as TPR would be missing and my role doesn’t make sense.

[MathBlade]

Also replace RB with some roleblocker esque roll. Rolestopper JK etc. there’s a long list

[MathBlade]

I think it’s more scum frustration that Ari was checked.

I don’t think they expected Ari to be checked considering Ari was voted by IV. I think Ari is truthtelling in a lot of her posts and her frustration is genuine just a scum frustration.

I think she planned on leaving IV alive for the doubts you have now and ones she has stated repeatedly.

I think Andres goon Ari ascetic traitor shoots House here. Or you Andres. House is the big threat to those two pairings.

[MathBlade]

I think they made a bet on anyone but Ari being checked as claiming no result doesn’t really make sense if you want credibility as scum. You claim Ari is guilty then drop the vote immediately. I likely sheep IV then other scum votes and wins.

I don’t see this being a scum strat from IV here

[MathBlade]

i really don't think ari shoots house here if iv's town, considering house is defending her, hates me, hates andres, and said that he's voting iv if iv is alive

I think either she is traitor and it’s out of her hands or she is wifoming or it’s you + Andres.

[MathBlade]

I just think Andres is scum no matter how I slice this except for a you + Ari world. I want to be confident it’s not you and Ari so can vote Andres who House really susses. Or get you on the same page as me on Ari.

I patently will not do IV today more than likely. I don’t see how he’d be scum.

[MathBlade]

You don't actually have a single good reason for IV being town whereas I have many reasons why IV is not town.

I already listed several. The biggest no TPRs if IV is town. I don’t think this passes review if IV scum. You’re better off selling me Dats+Andres or whoever you think is scum with IV if town

[MathBlade]

i really don't think ari shoots house here if iv's town, considering house is defending her, hates me, hates andres, and said that he's voting iv if iv is alive

I think either she is traitor and it’s out of her hands or she is wifoming or it’s you + Andres.

either she's a traitor or groupscum or she's town

i am sensing math is town, iv is scum, and this is going to shit fast

How does this pass normal review if IV is scum?

Why does IV CC House vig claim?
Why does IV use a weak ass “no result” claim when a “Ari is scum” likely wins him the game?

[MathBlade]

How does this pass normal review if IV is scum?

If IV is town, that would mean scum have a roleblocker and that makes this setup

even more scumsided

than if IV is just scum rolecop/gunsmith here.

I disagree that scum would have a roleblocker

And that wouldn’t make it more scum sided if they did
Rolestopper or JK or doc make more sense

[MathBlade]

how does this pass review if iv is town? how the hell does town get a basically n2 gunsmith (which has plenty of bad results here) in exchange for scum having a blocker and being able to create a disaster if they block baltar (who has EVERY REASON TO CRUMB THE NIGHT BEFORE) and he ends up targeting scum?

Again I do not agree with the premise that scum have a blocker here

And I think that IV town and RB scum is more townsided
Than IV scum

[MathBlade]

Why does IV CC House vig claim?
Why does IV use a weak ass “no result” claim when a “Ari is scum” likely wins him the game?

iv didn't cc anything? and i think he loses almost any 1v1 he is put into here. like, do you really think scum!iv manages to outpost me or you or ari? or shit, even andres?

Incorrect

IV CC’d House specifically asking if House is the vig before doing so

I agree IV seems disinterested
But it seems more town disinterest

Scum disinterest reads more like Andres

[MathBlade]

if they have a rolestopper, same problem
jailkeeper, same problem

even the fucking ascetic runs into the same problem

the possibility of a doc is irrelevant considering he got a no result

I disagree with the same problem

Rolestopper has to guess the target
Making it much less utility for scum.
Jailkeeper or RB less likely than Rolestopper

Maybe one shot or even night

But I find IV town most likely here

[MathBlade]

To be clear House is the vigilante right, If I’m seeing this correctly

Okay - I’m a town even nights Gunsmith. I Checked Something Smart last night and he did have a gun in flavor

Hi sorry guys - this game has been moving rly fast and I haven’t put much time here

I have information that Something Smart is probably scum, I would maybe be like 95% on it

VOTE: Something Smart

@Datisi here is where he counter claimed House vig

[MathBlade]

actually do you both agree that regardless of whether IV is town or scum this town is really on the weak end of power and probably this setup shouldn't have been passed?

I would pass it if you’re ascetic scum
Or scum had an even night Rolestopper
50/50 on roleblocker

@Ari so scum have to use PRs well

That’s called good setup balance

[MathBlade]

To be clear House is the vigilante right, If I’m seeing this correctly

Okay - I’m a town even nights Gunsmith. I Checked Something Smart last night and he did have a gun in flavor

Hi sorry guys - this game has been moving rly fast and I haven’t put much time here

I have information that Something Smart is probably scum, I would maybe be like 95% on it

VOTE: Something Smart

@Datisi here is where he counter claimed House vig

no? that is where he made sure house is claiming vig in order to know whether his "has gun" result on s_s is because s_s is scum or vig???

That’s what I am meaning

Scum IV would have a PT there’s no need for that. He’d just have done so

[MathBlade]

think for a second about the balance in this setup - this town is INCREDIBLY WEAK

Like the scum made a choice to shoot House.

I think this means the scum actually believed House when House said he was a provable TPR because the scum thought the town was really really weak - which implies the scum know something about the claimed TPRs - aka they know IV is not an actual gunsmith.

It’s actually not.

Vig acts as a dual IC in normals.

The modifier can’t be given to scum.

[MathBlade]

think for a second about the balance in this setup - this town is INCREDIBLY WEAK

Like the scum made a choice to shoot House.

I think this means the scum actually believed House when House said he was a provable TPR because the scum thought the town was really really weak - which implies the scum know something about the claimed TPRs - aka they know IV is not an actual gunsmith.

It’s actually not.

Vig acts as a dual IC in normals.

The modifier can’t be given to scum.

You can't both claim this town is so weak that IV must be town and then in the same breath claim this town is not incredibly weak - it feels like you are doing some incredibly gymnastics to refuse to see the issue here.

I don’t think so.

I think it is perfectly balanced with you ascetic traitor.

It would take mental gymnastics to argue town is so weak let’s subtract the only PR multishot we have.

[MathBlade]

like I didn't think House was an actual TPR.

Nothing about his play made sense as a TPR.

but whoever is running scumside thought House is a TPR that could be proven because if he isn't - you just leave House alive and when House can't prove himself - today he gets yeeted game is over.

Why doesn't scum do this?

IMO the reason they don't do this is because they believed House is a provable TPR and will be in control of the thread today - which they wouldn't believe if they thought IV is actually an Even Night Gunsmith.

Nah scum can easily do the shading you’re doing now.

I even called out this possibility as did you.

[MathBlade]

Actually shooting House makes a lot of sense if the scum team is Mathblade/IV because no other shot makes sense in that team scenario

If I was scum with IV I shoot Datisi here.

[MathBlade]

No I've already stated that only way IV is town is if Scum have a Roleblocker.

And Scum having a roleblocker would make this setup even more scumsided.

Your second premise is false. You’ve stated it and it doesn’t make it true.

[MathBlade]

Actually shooting House makes a lot of sense if the scum team is Mathblade/IV because no other shot makes sense in that team scenario

If I was scum with IV I shoot Datisi here.

And leave House alive? What if House turns out to be a Day 5 IC or a Vig and you end up getting hard shoved by House/Me?

It was already clear House was full of shit.

I just thought he was scum full of shit.

[MathBlade]

It is true to me

I no longer believe you are discussing things in good faith with me.

You continue to tunnel in on me being specifically ascetic traitor scum

Oh it’s a I disagree I am not discussing in good faith again.

FFS

No one is answering the questions I had about why IV is town.

The only way this setup is balanced is if he is.

Now when Andres gets back I want to see if it’s Ari + Dat or if one or more of you are hopelessly desperate for IV scum.

Let me be abundantly clear
Every mechanical idea I have had about this setup has been true.
So shade me all you want but
Scum bussed fact
SS said IV town and gunsmith backs up my claim fact

Now I need to figure out if this is Andres scum or if it’s just you + Dat scum

[MathBlade]

I would accept your level of confidence if you were good at town or if you had been right so far this game but you've been wrong on every single read.

D2 you voted for skitter - she's town
D3 you voted for frog - he's town
D4 you voted for House -he's town.

The fact that IV is still alive as a claimed TPR investigative who survived being nightkilled over the person you were sure was scum yesterday should've reset your reads but you continue to refuse to.

Where do you get the confidence to triple down on your convictions after being wrong on so many flips?

I am not tripling down on reads. I am tripling down on the mechanics every dead Townie agreed on.

[MathBlade]

I will not vote IV today without a setup where IV is scum that is reasonable to me.

SS one of the most mechanically smart players said IV is town.

My role PM likely indicated one at the start.

You can yell all you want it won’t happen.

[MathBlade]

you know what ELSE a dead townie agreed on? that iv is scum if he survives the night!!! and that townie got shot!!! he got shot even though you are literally cleared town!!!!! imagine that!!!!!!

House pretty much decided to make it a shit show just to no elim

He was making up crazy bullshit just to get his way.

His reads were utter garbage as he disregarded everything.

[MathBlade]

So no someone who is intentionally deceptive I can’t tell what he believed and was a wolf in town clothing.

[MathBlade]

His reads were utter garbage as he disregarded everything.

if his reads are utter garbage why did the scum shoot him and let you live?

Asked and answered move on

[MathBlade]

like if you're town here mathblade.

then you are basically close to mechclear mod conf'd town

and the mafia decided to let you live

and shot house instead.

and you think this means your reads are good?

I think it means that scum had a reason to do so

Several of which I outlined

[MathBlade]

If you both think Ari is town sell me on Andres

I don’t vote IV here without a setup here.

[MathBlade]

like what

Now this is in bad faith

I already outlined it

I won’t spam the thread

[MathBlade]

Because then you have to take House another day.

Assume you kill IV

Then elo 1 is you me Datisi Andres House. You’d be pinning your chances of success on the slim margin that we miselim in whoever is not your partner in Datisi/Andres. IV town GS flip locks in me miller so you can’t push there and can’t push House. You’re locked into a set world.

Assume you kill me

Then elo 1 is iv Datisi you Andres House. My flip lends credence to IV town. So again same scenario.

But both cases House is in control of the elim and likely either turns on you or tries to push Datisi or Andres through.

None of that is good for a you+Dat or you+Andres pairing

[MathBlade]

Gah when I know you I do.

The only thing you've proven is that you don't know shit.

I can't wait until you see my alignment so you realize just how much I mean every word I've said to you.

Ditto

Because if you’re town you’d rather be a bully and an anti town just to try to scream at me I suck versus actually winning

And what I said stands regardless of your alignment. You've treated ME like shit too.

Actively ignoring my meta since my return and making downright fallacious claims about me overall.

I don't play that shit.

I have not treated you like shit.

I read your claim and do not believe them.

That’s not treating you like shit.

Your play is shit right now.

If you’re a confirmable PR like IC you’d know IV is scum due to setup spec. There’d be no doubt

Instead you come up with another fake claim out of your ass when you don’t get your way

Either you’re wrong on IV D1 or wrong on Ari now

So based on your arrogance if you’re town you’ve decided to insult anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

I may suck my skills may be atrocious and discussable post game but there are lines I don’t cross.

It’s now pretty much a proven fact that House was wrong on at least one of his top reads

It’s a proven fact that Koba was wrong.

I am choosing to believe SS and Nero the more this gets pushed.

[MathBlade]

The exact motivation for punting as Scum with two Confirmed Town is obvious - you eliminate one of them and have their vote and voice silenced at the most opportune time.

iv is the defacto night kill if he is town.

He's an even night investigative.

It's an even night.

If he stays alive, it's because he's scum. Scum can't risk him landing a guilty.

"But both cases House is in control of the elim and likely either turns on you or tries to push Datisi or Andres through."

How is this bad for me?

You literally just quoted why.

Town in control

[MathBlade]

Give me a setup where IV can be scum for me to consider it.

Otherwise I won’t and SS and Koba are right and it’s both of you is the solve.

[MathBlade]

Far as I am concerned it’s either exactly IV + Andres
And you both together

Those are the two likely solves

And more town in the dead thinks it’s you and Ari.

And the ones that didn’t were already proven wrong.

[MathBlade]

Except he was lying.

[MathBlade]

His entire play if town is designed to get IV an extra check.

That’s the only reason I can think House tries to bait the kill.

[MathBlade]

There’s no reason to try to claim TPR there otherwise

[MathBlade]

That’s the only way I can figure it to not be a blatant throw on House’s part.

Again you’re avoiding the question

If you want me to consider IV scum pitch me a setup where this works.

[MathBlade]

I can't wait until you see my alignment so you realize just how much I mean every word I've said to you.

And I am telling you he believed in what he was doing.

He said IV was scum as a chaotic gambit which he does to give IV another check.

Otherwise he just lets me die being conf then argues IV town tomorrow.

Answer the question and provide a way IV is scum mechanically with a valid setup or push Andres.

IV to me is disinterested town.

[MathBlade]

IV scum* word vomit

[MathBlade]

He wholeheartedly believed I was gonna die too.

You’re picking and choosing what you take from House’s posts

He’s already proven wrong on either IV town from D1 or you town now.

[MathBlade]

I don't give a shit what IV to you is. I have already cased IV by dayplay- by nka - by meta.

the only thing you have is "if iv is scum this setup wouldn't pass" which is just your opinion of balance.

If we lose to IV scum it won't be because I made a mistake.

This is a game.

If we lose to IV scum it’s because of the setup.

And you will have made a mistake by constantly calling me bad and stupid and how I play is bad
Causing a ton of shit fights rather than actually believing I can play

It is much more likely I am right and have been and SS is right and Nero is right.

If you really thought IV was scum you’d vote him and see where votes fell.

Then Datisi likely sheeps you and Andres and IV vote you

Then I can sit in quiet and reread again

But you spamming I have cased IV is useless when you can’t answer that as the case would be nothing but manipulation

[MathBlade]

He’s already proven wrong on either IV town from D1 or you town now.

?

if you think IV/Me has to have one scum why the fuck are you asking me to case Andres?

Because that’s the only way I see us winning if you’re town since you won’t or can’t answer what I need to vote IV

[MathBlade]

If we lose to IV scum it’s because of the setup.

no

if we lose to IV scum it is because of the person who is town who refuses to vote for IV-scum.

period

end of story

not fucking passing the buck to isis and the NRG

you take responsibility for your own play and your own actions.

The mechanically smart play is never to vote the cop or the inno.

You vote the guilty.

So no. I won’t vote IV today without a mechanical explanation so if he is scum find his buddy.

If we lose because of it we do.

[MathBlade]

Because that’s the only way I see us winning if you’re town since you won’t or can’t answer what I need to vote IV

I have already cased IV

I can rewrite the case again

I don't give a shit about your setup spec

Then case Andres or die

[MathBlade]

And you will have made a mistake by constantly calling me bad and stupid and how I play is bad
Causing a ton of shit fights rather than actually believing I can play

you pushed skitter/frogster/house

they are all town

if you got your way yesterday and killed house or me this game is already over

i'm not going to re-litigate this with you stop bringing it up

And those all three gamethrew IMHO

[MathBlade]

They all did stuff that gets them fucking elimmed in the newbie queue while being experienced. House’s “but let me be scum while being town” is pretty much bullshit.

[MathBlade]

And those all three gamethrew IMHO

you can talk to them after the game then.

I find your comments disgusting

You have three choices
Give me a mechanical way IV is scum
Sell me on Andres
Or die

[MathBlade]

I find their play disgusting.

[MathBlade]

I find you disgusting

Noted.

Moving on you have those options.

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i have never seen a player push townie after townie and then blame the dead townies for being game throwing or playing in a disgusting manner.

I am appalled.

That happens all the fucking time in mafia.

I mention it and I am bad

Anything I do is “appalling” or “bad”

There isn’t a way to fucking win for losing

So fine call me disgusting

I have stated what I find likely and rather than pitch something you find more likely it’s been attack me for three days
Despite these clearly obvious flaws

[MathBlade]

your actions are no longer acceptable to me and I wish to end this game as soon as possible I no longer care about winning please do not speak to me again until after this game is over and I will return the favor.

I couldn’t agree with this more.

[MathBlade]

I am watching Critical Role back tomorrow after work. My guess is no quick hammer

[MathBlade]

Just showing I am here at my usual morning time and no quick hammer

Like I said won’t look at this until after work.

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viewtopic.php?p=12557861&user_select%5B ... #p12557861

IV town PR role super old but went off memory than searching every game

I pretty much agree the game is Ari Dats or IV Andres and it’s a matter of picking right here

[MathBlade]

Pretty sure if it is IV + Andres Andres doesn’t want to be locked into voting Ari first.

Mainly unless IV cross votes as expected since every team that could have quickhammered IV I likely will vote IV.

He said he is back on Saturday so I expect a vote by then from him.

[MathBlade]

Then I expect that Andres will have to follow suit with an Ari vote then Datisi will vote IV.

Leaving me the weekend to read in peace

[MathBlade]

Pretty sure if it is IV + Andres Andres doesn’t want to be locked into voting Ari first.

Mainly unless IV cross votes as expected since every team that could have quickhammered IV I likely will vote IV.

He said he is back on Saturday so I expect a vote by then from him.

not sure what this post means? especially the middle part

The only possible scum teams that could have quickhammered from IV’s perspective

Me and Datisi => no quickhammer
Me and Andres => no quickhammer
Datisi and Andres => no quickhammer

So there should be no doubt in IV’s mind that Ari is scum.

So if IV doesn’t vote Ari then regardless of my reads/opinions IV is scum

[MathBlade]

Andres is already trying to pivot to the next day if scum. If town I would have expected him to drop an Ari vote right away.

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The only options Andres scum has is either bus IV or vote Ari

Considering how hard he has pushed Ari voting IV even though it buys him another day if IV is scum he knows that looks bad the next day

So then it comes to Andres if scum votes Ari here eventually then I decide between the pairings is what realistically happens.

[MathBlade]

if you think andres can only be scum with iv, wouldn't him "pivoting to the next day" be him preparing to vote iv? like, if he votes ari and you vote her out, there will be no next day then

That’s what I am saying?

I am trying to consider Ari town while not engaging with her because I know if I do I will rage vote her which if she is town is bad

[MathBlade]

So I can wait for the inevitable IV votes Ari vote and then wait for Andres to do something

If he doesn’t then I take it as a scum claim and then just vote IV on Saturday/Sunday

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oh, considering apparently you and ari can't talk to each other without screaming, do i get to be the negotiator? fun

I just plan on not talking with her as that’s best for thread health.

[MathBlade]

I will read what she writes but I won’t respond it will just make the game better for everyone

[MathBlade]

No quickhammer just to solidify again

[MathBlade]

The only options Andres scum has is either bus IV or vote Ari

Considering how hard he has pushed Ari voting IV even though it buys him another day if IV is scum he knows that looks bad the next day

So then it comes to Andres if scum votes Ari here eventually then I decide between the pairings is what realistically happens.

I’m Town. I’m not pivoting to anything. I’m also allowed to think things through and analyze the game. If you’re making this comment about me, you should be making it about Datisi too. Datisi has been dragging a vote both yesterday and today. So not sure why that’s not relevant all of a sudden.

Datisi and Ari have been paired at the hip all game.

I doubt there’s nothing I could say or you could say that makes him vote Ari.

[MathBlade]

I gotta go you have two days plenty of time.

Ask away if you have questions

[MathBlade]

Okay from your point of view Ari is scum.

So please work from there and who with.

[MathBlade]

What was going on with Baltar’s clears? Sorry just really out of touch with what that means. I was mostly just sheeping others there since I don’t really know much about it.

And oh I see. Yeah that was in reference to that game. I probably thought you were a candidate for scum at that point in time as the PoE narrowed in that game but I only loosely followed along

Baltar visited me and didn’t die.

So Datisi is asking if you think that Baltar could have been roleblocked or messed with by scum to make me not clear.

[MathBlade]

from town!you pov, you just got confirmation that scum can indeed fuck up baltar's clears, so the fact that you're just handwaving it away is lol

and the schadd game is over

??? Not seeing this at all.

Ari ascetic would still work and not mess with anything.

[MathBlade]

Okay from your point of view Ari is scum.

So please work from there and who with.

Well I doubt it’s you, you guys got into a massive shitfest ytdy that really seemed way too emotionally personal to be scum theatre.

Leaves Datisi or Andres obviously. I wish I could tell you which one but I don’t have any updated strong opinions about either of their play, I’ll maybe take a closer look this weekend if I can find some time

I can wait until this weekend.

There’s time.

[MathBlade]

Datisi why haven’t you voted? One way or the other?

You’ve been on and seemingly pushing IV and TR’ing Ari?

Is there a reason why you do not vote?

Are you unsure of Ari’s alignment?

Can you speak to your thought processes please?

[MathBlade]

To be clear I am not asking you to vote

Just wanting insight into why you haven’t.

[MathBlade]

It’s kinda why I have trouble scumreading IV.

House claimed vig.
IV claimed gunsmith with result on SS

The only way IV does so and gets it right is with evidence.

So hence why I am just intentionally waiting and seeing if votes fall where I expect them.

Then I have less to consider. I don’t plan on voting either way until others have voted.

[MathBlade]

We have a week so that gives IV and Andres time for the catch-ups they’ve been promising and for Andres to make a vote.

[MathBlade]

IV claimed gunsmith with result on SS

one possibility is that iv was likely to die either way so he decided to try to take someone out with him. the other and, imo more likely scenario is that he did have information that s_s was a vigilante. gunsmith isn't a town-only role.

If you reread what I said then you’ll see IV scum gunsmith is a possibility.

All I said was he doesn’t say that without evidence

And I don’t see this IV likely to die you’re pushing

So mainly I want to just wait and see who votes who and see what the pairings are

Btw me and Datisi cleared as scumteam

[MathBlade]

The way I figure is I am going to get yelled at and say Math sucks if I am wrong no matter which way I pick.

If I vote Ari and it’s IV RTP yells at me for my silly decision
If I vote IV and it’s Ari then Nero yells at me for my silly decision and I regret not tunneling Ari D2 and makes her D2 play make more sense

So I kinda wanna minimize the yelling post game too.

[MathBlade]

Trails of cold steel 1 is 100% done.
Onto Trails 2 while awaiting IV and Andres to do things.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Vote Vita Clotilde for Princess kidnapping.

(This is purely a vote about the trails game while seeing what IV and Andres do. The Unvote is to not be confusing.)

VOTE: Unvote

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@IV: Who do you think is scum with Ari? And why?

[MathBlade]

@IV: Who do you think is scum with Ari? And why?

Please can you answer this?

[MathBlade]

Mistakes made in this game aren’t exactly fixable so focus on what you can do if you’re town.

If you are town and Ari scum and we elim Ari you want to leave reads because in Ari scum world you’re dead.

So can you like give me something more concrete or how you form your reads?

[MathBlade]

Okay good night maybe tomorrow

[MathBlade]

I am trying to find the train tracks of your thoughts

It feels like you’re more focused on defense vs offense

And I can’t figure out why and how you’re getting to some of these posts.