Mini Normal 2262: NbITGBSMoD [game over]

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VOTE: HockeyFan

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just want to say, why are pages 3-6 the funniest shit I've ever read

I'm crying right now

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okay

fire and stephen are probably town here

greeting and dwlee are slightly town pinging me

VOTE: 0verki11

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ah, no real reason tbh. gut?

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Why would Steven do this as scum?

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

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100% true

that's why my townlean on stephen has absolutely nothing to do with him going after dwlee

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scorpious are you scum this game

I'm just curious

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right okay, let's see...

Naked RVS votes suck btw just so you know, it takes zero effort to literally write ANYTHING.

You're right

Thats fantastic, how does this progress the game ?

It doesn't

"probably" and "slightly" mean nothing, you may have just not posted this.. tells us nothing on how you are thinking,

then another seemingly random vote?

Correct, and correct

gut.. so....? "Random"?

Yep

What part of impersonating somone "seems townie" to you?

It doesn't

Then why are you town leaning on them?

uhhmm so I think this is kind of where scumhunting is more of an art than a science. you have to look beyond the obvious facts

like, the actual towniest thing stephen has done this game was posting a list of scumreads and offering zero explanation for them

It's not that they HAD no explanation. The reads did have reasoning behind them. But in that moment he didn't particularly care to justify them nor care what people thought about them, even when challenged about it. I think that tends to come from town more than mafia

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couldn't you have put stephen on the right so they're kind of facing each other

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There, happy?

1 sec lemme go print and frame this

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so far I believe stephen, dwlee and fire are town

I *want* to believe greeting and hockeyfan are town

nulls are andante, overkill, surye, frozen angel

nero cain, scorpious, eyes without a face are giving me scum vibes

VOTE: Eyes without a face

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wavemode thinks that lack of explanation and not really caring about being questioned is townie, and he gives super casual "yeah so what" responses to scorp and me

f there's anything you want to know just ask. I don't want to be cagey, I just want to be efficient.

the problem with wallposting is, most people don't really read it all anyway. like, not REALLY

so I'm not particularly likely to go into a ton of detail unless you ask me a direct question. tends to be a waste of effort. and I'm lazy, you know? and the questioning process generates useful reactions

and come on, most of those questions in 203 were not real questions, everyone here recognizes that right? even scorpious himself will admit that. he's not a newbie, he knows how RVS works

like honestly tell me, which of those questions besides the last one actually warranted a detailed response. whichever one you think it is, I will happily answer in more detail

if scorp flips scum we will look back on the fact that I was able to provoke him to post that ridiculous 203, as a game-winning play

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i cannot imagine why anyone would have an eyes without a face read in either direction unless they are process of elimination sorting, but we can ignore that for now

217 is slightly bad, to me. it feels like a "low hanging fruit" read, a read you write when you're trying to come up with a reason to townread someone. like "oh of course I would townread these guys because they participated in RVS ending". I meeeean, would you? really? people are rarely genuinely that naive. also, no mention of scorp, who quite literally did end RVS

that alone probably wouldn't amount to a scumlean if eyes had gone on to contribute more after that. but no, even with all the shit that was going on in the game at the time, all we got from eyes was that pointless comment. and yet his last visited time on the site is 8 hours later. never decided to come back and give more thoughts. hm

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nero cain, scorpious, eyes without a face are giving me scum vibes

explain the nero read? an answer of "ehh idk gut" will no longer be accepted

I don't fully follow 65. I get it, andante said 27 was scummy and some people agreed. you're just going to sheep that as your whole reason for voting hockey? there's a lot more in hockeyfan's ISO than 27 and 155

and I don't follow his 197 either. nero himself seems unsure of stephen's alignment, and unsure of the motive for his aggression, in his own 255. so why is hockeyfan being unsure of that such a problem. also, hockeyfan is nowhere near the only person who said they felt the argument was NAI. and also also, his basic argument that this behavior is scummy doesn't really make a ton of sense. overall this feels like a big reach to justify his wagon position

every time nero posts I feel like I keep asking myself whether he's really trying to solve this game, or just trying to appear like he is. and I keep arriving at the latter being more likely, when I compare this game to past games I've played with him

also, more generally: my knee-jerk reaction to your question is to counter-question, why does a scum read NEED to not be gut? Let's say my nero read had been pure gut. I think if I were actively trying to convince people to vote nero with me, the discussion of whether I have logical reasoning becomes more relevant. but if it's just a gut read and I'm not even voting him, I don't quite see what the problem with that is. I guess I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from with this post? I will probably have gut reads in the future, do you believe they should not be shared?

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wave, you responded to the one i said we could ignore for now and you ignored the direct question asking for a response

uh I felt like answering both...?

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If you are going to use this,you should also use the other rationale I had behind it. I'm not accusing you of partial quoting or mis repping,but its close but I've said twice now,and you just re-iterated. I wasn't pressing you at all. As I have aid I wanted to see how you would respond.

well, I'm not "use"ing anything. I'm not voting you or trying to wagon you and I'm not super certain you're scum, you just currently seem more likely than most of the game. but if you're asking me my working theory for scum!scorp, right now I feel like it's a reasonable possibility that you wanted to throw shade and perhaps try to drum up momentum for a mislynch wagon, then changed your mind after my response. So of course your stated rationale would become, "I just wanted to see how he would respond". but, eh, 21 and 203 don't really feel like that to me. the two posts, especially taken together, feel more like suspicion than fact-finding

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Like, the first sentence is contradicting itself. if you get that the post was scum read/scummy, what's weird about it being voted? Just cause someone else also had the read, nero couldn't say the same thing?

Well, no. I get that *andante* said it was scummy. But that doesn't mean I find it scummy (personally I'm leaning town on hockey), and that certainly doesn't mean I like nero sheeping that reasoning

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no, but you should be prepared to explain them when asked. gut always comes from somewhere. i think you'd respond in different ways to me asking you to have more of a reason than gut depending on your alignment, so that's my motivation behind asking

lol if we want to play THAT game of wifom, one could argue that as scum I would probably just not share a read if it was just gut. but as town I still think it's worthwhile if people know where my head is at

and no I don't think gut ALWAYS comes from somewhere, certainly not necessarily always somewhere from which it can be put into words adequately

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why is nero finding it scummy giving you scum vibes on nero but you didn't get same vibes from andante?

again, it was the sheeping, frozen, the sheeping. and not just in isolation, it is in the context of the rest of his play. this game it all seems lazy

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and he clearly gave a read on the interaction in 255 even though its not a certain read (there is no such thing as a certain read without role actions btw) which is opposite to hookie calling it directly not AI at all.

I already mentioned all the issues I had with it, namely that he himself recognizes that there are many different possibilities for his motivations, and the fact that several other people besides hockeyfan also considered it NAI

and if its a gut read just insist that its a gut read. why would you wanna force reasons for your read?

uuh because it's not purely a gut read? I don't understand this question

How is having the same idea about some post scum indicative?

is this whole back and forth going to be a constant "I think grass is good because it's green" and then you respond "why do you think grass is good just because it's red?"

as I already said, it's not the read, it's the *lazy play*

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I've never faced such strong defense for someone I'm not voting before

if only eyes without a face had such an advocate

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considering several different possibilities is solving. calling something NAI is different. So you having the same idea as others about that conversation being NAI, is by your logic lazy play/sheeping and a scummy act?

I think the meaning of what I'm saying is still just not coming across here.

NAI = it would not be out of the ordinary for either alignment to do it. right? so there's two completely separate possibilities. that's what I mean by possibilities.

And so if someone is not leaning more in favor of one possibility or the other, like several people in this game currently, then what they are saying is that the action was NAI. it did not, in isolation, indicate alignment, and so can only be considered in the context of further (or past) observation

about the second part, Why would you say that about gut reads then? I don't understand why you had to explain how you don't have to explain gut reads in detail right after giving logic about the read (and saying that it wasn't pure gut read). Seems like a contradictory pov.

I still don't really understand the question. Why can't I make two separate statements in a single post?

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How do you read our back and forth right now?

I read what you're doing, yes, but you're ignoring large swathes of each of my sentences in order to do it

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which parts did I ignore

lol well let's use the latest example:

The read was a semi gut read but had a reason behind it right? So what was your point in adding that part about how gut reads don't need reason after giving (I still think forced) reasons about it?

your question here is ignoring the very fundamental question I was asking fire, namely:

I will probably have gut reads

in the future

, do you believe they should not be shared?

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How is that response about not providing reasons for gut reads is relevant to that question?

I was simply asking fire a question. If you dislike the question, good news! it wasn't to you, it was to fire

if what you dislike is *where* I put the question, I apologize profusely for the offense and in the future I promise to separate my questions from my statements whenever feasible

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Wave,thoughts on 358?

uhm okay you *participated* in the ending of RVS, even though technically a non-RVS vote had already been cast a few minutes beforehand. would that be more accurate?

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again, just would like to know where I said this.. I'm dealing with 2 mis reps at the same time and neither of you will acknowledge it.

this is weird, tonally. I struggle to see how this particular statement was of any pain to you. is participating in RVS ending somehow damaging to your reputation?

you participating in ending RVS has nothing to do with me scumreading you (how could it?), I simply said that in the context of the fact that eyes didn't mention it in his townreads

so why is this such a problem you're "dealing with"?

I would say so,... Thats a far cry from saying I "literally ended RVS" and using it as an argument as well.

Now I'm wondering if you would have ever corrected it, had I not called you out on it.

Well, no, I wouldn't have. I thought you ended RVS. So thank you for pointing that out to me.

But it doesn't really change the argument. I think eyes could still probably mention the player who said "oops did I end RVS" on page 1 of the game, if he's on a spree of townreading people who like to end RVS. right? is that unreasonable? or at least mention why you were the exception?

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We need to book him for my ESPN Live debate show then

@WaveMode are you ready to defend your boy HockeyFan?

I don't really want to vote hockeyfan because I've seen signs of him genuinely trying to understand and solve the game (for example, but not limited to, 155 and 170 and 371 and 407) and they feel more like town trying to understand people's motivations than scum try to throw shade

and I'm not really convinced by the reasons I've seen for people scumreading him. maybe very *very* early in the game I could kind of see where some people were coming from in terms of tone? but I think he's been pretty consistent in that tone, to the point where I could say it's just genuinely reflective of how he thinks and writes, and not a symptom of scum intent

oh and there was that meta thing with fire? look I admire the spirit going deep meta on like page 1 of the game but ehhh after reading those games I don't personally find the evidence convincing (and meta evidence is not particularly reliable to start with, so there's also that)

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at the moment I'm willing to vote eyes or scorpious. though I think overall eyes is our best lynch

it's a fallacy to assume (as some have) that just because someone hasn't posted a lot that must mean we don't have enough information to lynch them. eyes has done plenty and none of it is good

to the point where it's like they're not even really reading the game? or intentionally avoiding having to participate in it. ahhh let's face it lurker or not this flips scum more often than not

pedit: well yeah, I pointed out that exact problem I had with eyes's 217 all the way back in my 355

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they are simply the two players who I think are overall least likely to be town here

what that means regarding their partnership and/or the setup is impossible to know, however

so trying to evaluate them in terms of whether or not I think they are partners with each other is strategically unsound

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Scorpious has just pointed out to me, in 469, what I believe was his perceived shallowness of my read on Eyes with out a face. I openly admitted to not having focused on them much. If they're both scum, why would he do that to his partner?

I don't townread people because I'm worried they might be partners with someone else I scumread. that's just not logically sound

what if scorpious just did that to make himself look good after eyes flips? he's been playing mafia for years, he's not a noob

or what if they are both scum but not aligned with each other? we don't know the setup

or, hey, let's assume you're right and one of them is town. how could I possibly know which one it is? how could I use that to townread one of them? I would have to make a lot of baseless assumptions to come to such a conclusion

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You’re proclaiming that limming the lurker is more often successful than not.

well, no. I said lynching eyes, in this game, is more likely to be successful than not. not lurkers in general

and I specifically said that it's because of eyes's actual play, not their level of activity

all I was saying regarding activity was that the fact that they are less active should not mean they're immune from suspicion

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wave, can u explain the progression between 349 and 485(what happend to the nero sus). Cuz u didnt mention them much between these two logs

well, nothing happened to the nero sus. I would say he's still near the bottom for me

but I guess what you're getting at is, if he's near the bottom for me, that must mean I want to lynch him today? to which I would say, no that's not really the case. I'm more confident in my eyes and scorpious scumreads

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Guessing what that plan is can be a strategy for town to figure out whom the team is

yeah and that strategy just doesn't usually work. without flips there's no way to know what one person's interactions with another person actually mean. and the more you try to assume you know what they mean, the more likely you end up with completely shitty reads altogether

you say you've never seen scum express suspicion of each other day 1 but I have, I've seen it a lot. in fact I've done it. in fact I've seen scum HARD bus, and successfully lynch, each other day 1. I've probably seen it all at this point

two people who are both acting scummy, can both be scum, regardless of what they are saying about each other. it is completely illogical to assume otherwise

Sorry, but I am just not buying this explanation. You say that Scorpious is not a noob, but you're no noob either and this just seems like you've picked two players lined up for elimination and stuck with them while openly refusing to reflect further on that at all. And that is more likely to come from scum and town. My vote on you stands.

this paragraph is bizarre. I was the first person to express suspicion of eyes and I was the first person to express suspicion of scorpious. neither of them was "up for elimination". and "openly refusing to reflect further" is... ???? because I have a different scum reading strategy than you, that means I'm not reflecting?

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Rams are a four point favorite but Joey B is my Boy

former Lions QB Matthew Stafford winning today would be the closest Detroit will ever come to superbowl glory

so my heart is with the rams

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eyes's suspicion of dwlee feels more like deflection than the product of some sort of reaction test

in fact throughout his whole ISO I still have zero reason to believe he has actually followed the game at any point and formed any genuine reads on anyone based on any actual content

everything he's done lately is just an aggressive reaction to him being run up on votes to try to avoid being eliminated

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yes

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town usually display some motivation to solve the game

all I've seen from eyes is that he clearly wants to appear like he is solving it. but he's actually done exactly nothing

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i disagree, i don't see any intention from him of trying to appear like he's solving the game. he seems to be very straightforward about doing nothing. it makes him a not very useful player, yes, but does it make him scum? if it continues, then calling for him to be elimmed on principle is one thing, but it seems not necessary on day 1

huh? there was just an entire discussion about his mentioning the replacements theory being a reaction test, which he then claims dwlee had a scummy reaction to. that does not look like someone being straightforward about doing nothing

are we reading the same ISO? where is he "straightforward about doing nothing"?

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the worst replaces 0verki11.

well then someone should tell overkill that

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allow me to summarize eyes without a lawyer's ISO. he:

1. supposedly townreads dwlee and andante for helping the game get out of RVS. he does not give any further opinions on the events of the game thus far. I took issue with this in my 355
2. rejoins the game after a long absence and states he tends to be suspicious of replacement slots. he gives no reads. some people do not like this. some people vote him
3. claims that offering the theory was just "indirect pressure" and that it supposedly got a scummy reaction out of dwlee
4. the rest of his ISO is him defending himself. his vote count reaches L-3. he neither votes dwlee nor offers any reads or opinions on anyone else

I really have a hard time seeing this progression as town. if he didn't want to seem like he was playing the game then 1 and 3 would not have taken place

what I am left with is that he is indeed playing the game but he's not aligned with us

one original thought is basically nothing, yes. he's spent most of the time since then giving the bare minimum of responses to people questioning him, and making salty comments that directly or indirectly reference people's suspicions of him and get us nowhere. he's not literally doing nothing, he's just been unashamedly putting very little effort into making his own content or opinions (when asked to, he just complains about how people will find him suspicious for it, which, eyeroll), and i do not at all see the narrative of a scum player trying to look good. where is this "clearly wants to appear like he is solving it"?

then you and I have different definitions of nothing. to me 1 does not equal 0

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wave what are your other reads?

in order from most likely to least likely town:

fireisredsir
Stephen A Smith
Dwlee99
HockeyFan
Greeting
Frozen Angel
Andante
the worst
Umlaut
Nero Cain
Scorpious
Eyes without a face

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Why do you think laziness is not a good reason for player X to sus player Y

laziness is just a rife part of human nature, lol. town are lazy as often as scum are lazy. it's something that looks bad, which means it's easy to ramble about how it's bad!!!!, but i'm really not convinced that it's any more likely to come from either alignment. scum have a tendency to try and exploit things which look bad rather than things which are actually indicators of a scum mindset. => i think wave is just picking at an easy target.

then you should probably find where I ever stated that my problem with eyes is laziness (or that I think he's lazy in the first place)

you either aren't reading what I'm saying or aren't understanding the point I'm trying to make about him

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sry i probably asked a kinda useless question since i haven't read up yet; can you talk to me about other enpassioned reads? what else are you seeing in the gamestate? i guess the point i'm making is that like, if we're trying to solve the same puzzle, then your eyes read isn't very useful to me atm. what else is making your mind fire?

right now I want to eliminate either scorpious or eyes

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I'm summarising your point for sure

you aren't. in fact I'd say I've consistently said the opposite about eyes to what you seem to think I'm saying

where are u at on Scorpius?

he's scum

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how do you consider what fire and what I am seeing about your push against eyes as meaningfully different? Im genuinely confused and its been a long time since ive felt this confounded trying to have a convo with someone about a pretty routine mafia read lol

what's different is that fire gets what I'm saying about eyes. he just doesn't agree with it

you don't seem to get it at all

these are all of the posts I've made about eyes: 355, 399. 485, 646, 650, 657

I don't know how to prove a negative. it'd be more useful if you could point out to me where in here you seem to believe that my issue with eyes is laziness

because if you actually read the posts, I think you'll instead find that overall my position has been that he has indeed been trying to participate in the game, but there are substantive issues with that participation which lead me to believe he is scum. that's not laziness, that's scumminess. (and that's part of what I specifically mentioned in 657, the fact that if he truly just doesn't care and doesn't want to participate in the game, then he wouldn't be TRYING to seem like he's participating like in points 1 and 3 - instead he would just not participate)

why is scorp scum

I'd be happy to share my thoughts on scorp with you. I'm just worried that you'll ignore what I write and instead conclude that what I'm actually trying to say is that scorp is just lazy

first and foremost, scorpious's 203 is a shitshow. just a lot a of very nitpicky shade. he himself later walked back the post (in his 248), claiming it was just a reaction test (to get my tone and writing style). I explained in my 363 that I did not really believe this rationale given the context of 21 and 203 taken together. it seems more likely he was targeting me for elimination for a while. (which, hey, he can come after me if he wants. but do it with your chest! and with actual arguments. don't go back on it and say it was just a reaction test)

scorpious also generally reads to me like he's putting on a show. 333 feels melodramatic. if you scumread andante, alright dude just scumread her. why all the "this isn't adding up" and "I'm not comfortable with this" theatrics

in fact the whole progression to voting andante in 332, 333, 335, 337, and 347 feels like manufactured outrage. in fact a good analogy for it is the thing you were saying about laziness, how laziness *looks* bad but you also need to justify why it's actually scummy. similarly, the things he got so upset about in those posts look slightly bad, sure, but he never really gets around to justifying why they mean andante is scum. iirc andante posted some reads he didn't like? and he asked her a question and she didn't feel like answering it? then she answered it a few posts later anyway... if this is truly enough for someone to become a strong scumread for scorp, there are a lot of other people he should've gone after this game as well. she shouldn't have become his "only scumread" as he said at the time. seems more likely to me he just felt bolstered by how much pressure she was getting from fire and FA at the time and wanted to push on it

and also on the topic of melodramatic tone, I mentioned in my 399 that I didn't like his 395 and 397, which he wrote because at some point I stated that he was the one who ended RVS (even though what technically happened is that he simply *stated* that he had ended RVS, when in actuality the vote that ended RVS had already been cast a few minutes prior... you can read page 1 of the game if you're curious). personally I feel like he got overly confrontational about me misremembering such a minor detail. I can see this coming from scum feeling like "gotcha! caught him in a lie, now everyone will be on my side" without stopping to consider the lack of significance of what he'd found

it's probably also worth mentioning that scorpious's read on me has flipped from initially suspicious of me (in 21 and 203), to town (220), then back to null (362), then back to town (401), though given the post he just wrote above I'm guessing it's moving back down again if you haven't noticed, these changes tend to be opportunistically correlated with how much heat I'm getting from other players at the time

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what are your thoughts on the fact that he's claimed backup

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you have no idea why a claimed PR might be worth keeping alive? none?

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why would it change if it were a full claim?

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i don't think that him saying he is a backup has any effect on the likelihood of him being town

I disagree with this. But also, that wasn't even my point. I'm not saying it means he's necessarily town, I'm saying it means there could be utility in keeping him alive, at least until later in the game

or perhaps at that later stage, we then decide/discover his role is not plausible and then eliminate him with the comfortable certainty that he was lying

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my scorpio take is that i read some of 2252 and 2257 and thought he looked scummy in both, and one of them he was maf and one of them he was town. and as for the melodrama, there was plenty of that in the town game. so im not really sure how to read him this game. at first i didn't notice him much, he seemed pretty normal (and i liked how he was sus of wave since i was too), but i think it was weird how much he was ignoring the main wagons until i called him out on it

mostly i just want to hockey lim and then sort everyone else out later cause my brain gets stuck thinking about people based on how they've acted in relation to the wagons

ehhh if his tone was consistent I could be led to believe he's just a dramatic person, sure

but I feel like we've seen two completely different versions of scorpious this game

sometimes he's this calm and collected "I use prose and syntax and differential calculus to very carefully and gradually determine who is scum and who is town"

and other times he's this very dramatic and surface-level "how DARE you not answer my question the first time I asked it! thou scum!!"

and I feel like the transitions between the two have occurred purely at opportunistic times

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I don't think I've ever seen a backup in a normal game

FWIW I've *been* a backup in a normal game

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I keep reading your nickname as Queen Shitty

on my screen the text is small haha

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I think I'm just insulting my own eyesight

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if eyes flips scum I need to ask him after the game how he can contribute so little yet pocket people so hard

it's truly remarkable

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what specifically failed to impress you about them

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Alright,here is the deal, I do not thave the patience to cut and clip to make points. If you think thats AI,fine.
I just dont have patience.

My main problem with them is that is basically like watching commentary on whats going on with no real conviction, they do put togther reads toward the end,but thats expected.
I also dont like how it's so condensed,perhaps to cause this exact problem,whats wrong with posting as you read?

If you want to go through it and ask me how I feel specifically about something,please ask . I'm just time and technically limited to really express specefics. sorry.

"no real conviction" what does that mean exactly?

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Alright,here is the deal, I do not thave the patience to cut and clip to make points. If you think thats AI,fine.
I just dont have patience.

My main problem with them is that is basically like watching commentary on whats going on with no real conviction, they do put togther reads toward the end,but thats expected.
I also dont like how it's so condensed,perhaps to cause this exact problem,whats wrong with posting as you read?

If you want to go through it and ask me how I feel specifically about something,please ask . I'm just time and technically limited to really express specefics. sorry.

"no real conviction" what does that mean exactly?

did you quote the right post?

yes, I did lol that exact quote appears in your post

and I'm not entirely sure what you meant by it

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I simply think that a scum does not make 641

the fact that you think that is exactly why scum would do it

I can link you games where scum did it, since you seem to not have been lied to enough and thus are too trusting of humanity

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Go ahead! I'll read them.

I regularly see scum try to act like they don't care if people vote them. it's such a common tactic it really just doesn't phase me anymore


in a mini normal I played a while back, here's flavor leaf (boonskies) self-voting as scum: viewtopic.php?p=9543318#p9543318

a decent last-ditch effort, all things considered. he knew he was probably going down anyway (kind of like eyes knows he is now). though, it worked. GR was eliminated instead (though GR was also scum lol)


and here's eyes without nostrils himself! playing scum and very overdramatically threatening to self vote, "to help you all see the light": viewtopic.php?p=10911685#p10911685

it did not work though, he was still eliminated day 1 that game

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I'm pretty sure umlaut is town

and I'm also pretty sure you have essentially zero case on them

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post count is not a case

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I don't even care if you scumread umlaut. I just don't understand how you go from this, criticizing me all game because you thought eyes was "low hanging fruit":

How is eyes at 3? because of their 3 posts?

Especially with the literal
Lowest hanging fruit on the bottom..

This is just as bad as Adante’s early naked list.

to now you are literally going after a slot because it has 7 posts. in your words it's "Just a smart play to get rid of this slot. It’s either VT or a scum role nobody wants." uhhh how does that exact same logic not apply to eyes? why have you been criticizing me all game for going after them? I'm struggling to grasp how this progression is not pure opportunism

[wavemode]

it's such an abrupt shift that in the back of my mind I would not be surprised if umlaut was scum and they just agreed in their daychat that scorp should bus him

like it's such a sudden and random push for seemingly no reason at all

[wavemode]

yes, they are 400 posts apart

and in both, you criticized me for going after what you deemed to be a low-hanging fruit lurker

which shows that, for at least the span of 400 posts out of this game, you believed that it was not a good idea to go after someone for low activity (side note: I was never going after eyes for low activity anyway. but that's besides the point)

so I'm not seeing how you got from there to here

[wavemode]

like I think you don't realize that the fact that the posts are so far apart is part of my point it doesn't hurt my argument lol

[wavemode]

you're absolutely right, I had the wrong post. scorp's criticisms of me for going after eyes were in 491 and 674

[wavemode]

Like someone thinks 325 was directed at them when it was not is bad, but for the composer of the post to agree??? I dunno about that

he probably didn't notice because he himself knows he's been repeatedly critical of my eyes push. so he didn't bother going back and reading the post itself, he knew the point I was making was well-founded

[wavemode]

I understand every word of what you're saying. it all makes perfect sense

however, it is completely inconsistent with your own past behavior in this very game. therefore, it is suspicious

I don't know how you go from criticizing people for going after low hanging fruit, to now voting someone for being low hanging fruit

[wavemode]

I'm pretty sure Nero is town here, unsure on Frozen so far

what changed from this andante?

cause Nero was reminding me of a Nero I played with before in a huge game, actually never checked the alignment there lol

what reminded u of that game?

only other game I've seen Nero, and the way Nero is, is very memorable tbh

you town read nero because he's nero?

What do you sr about nero?

I have almost no read on nero
Obviously neither do you so why are you pretending to? :p

Very interesting.... What reads do you have then?

snooore

just adding to the pyramid, don't mind me

[wavemode]

VOTE: Scorpious

come on there HAVE to be 7 people in this game who scumread Scorpious

if the eyes wagon must collapse can it pretty pretty please collapse onto the scorpion

guys??

[wavemode]

have you voted anyone else this entire game?

I've never voted you before, actually

[wavemode]

any such record would have to be held by a game Mulch played in

[wavemode]

yes let's downplay the case! I love when caucht scum get to this stage

here are all of the posts I've made about scorpious

351
363
399
681
908
915
919
922
932

nobody can possibly read all that and genuinely claim my only reasoning is "because some early game questions"

[wavemode]

No way in hell I read most of that

of course you've read all of that. you *directly* responded to almost every one of those posts at the time they were posted

[wavemode]

pretending at this point that you have no idea why I scumread you is kind of a scumclaim tbh

[wavemode]

we already have 6 who've clearly indicated they are willing to vote scorp within worst wavemode fire frozen andante eyes. and greeting said they "wouldn't rule it out"

and afaik everyone else has him at null at best

so the only reason to be unvoting scorp at this point is if you don't want him eliminated

cuz he's essentially as good as dead once people come back online

[wavemode]

You make it sound like it's deadline and we have to consolidate on a wagon... right now

no, we don't have to. I just want to. I want scorp not greeting

you can hold your vote til deadline if waiting 3 days makes you feel better but I don't want the scorp wagon to collapse

[wavemode]

If someone could give me any even slightly rational explanation we would be eliminating greeting today over scorp, I'm be all ears

in what universe is that more likely to be scum than scorp is

[wavemode]

VOTE: Nero Cain E-1

I think FA is town

[wavemode]

exactly. I got called out for pushing umlaut, and I was wrong.. now it looks scummy

false. you can push umlaut if you want, but not for absurd reasons that contradict your own past opinions

and you obviously *know* this, because it's been explained you dozens of times now. do not pretend like it hasn't

but I will relentlessly continue to correct your attempts to downplay the case against you, because I'm worried some players are no longer closely reading this game

[wavemode]

[quote="In post 1489, Scorpious"]don't you think it gets old you throwing a yellow flag on EVERY post I write?/quote]

it will never get old, no. I will set the record straight when it's being misrepresented by likely scum

[wavemode]

Scorp Scorp Scorp Scorp Scorp.. puts Nero on E-1.. lol

still high buddy? I was the first player in this game to express suspicion of nero cain

[wavemode]

I was the first player in this game to express suspicion of nero cain

wouldn't that make you more likely to be mafia? like, more likely to go "hey partner you're being sus"

I don't care what it makes me to be quite honest. my reads are my reads, you can think what you want about them

But what it does do, is contradict what he was suggesting in his post, that I was just sheeping onto nero cain somehow

[wavemode]

if he doesn't want to help us hang nero anymore so be it VOTE: Scorpious

[wavemode]

you say "far cry" a lot. ever played far cry?

[wavemode]

whoa, easy on that OMGUS buddy..

what do mean OMGUS? do you scumread me? lol has your read on me flipped again?

[wavemode]

vote scorp

[wavemode]

we don't always get what we want in life

[wavemode]

yeah it's hard when people townread the wagon target, who knew

luckily, almost nobody townreads scorpious

[wavemode]

I think I've said all game I lean town on greeting

I think their play has been consistent with what I've always seen, nothing that's been pointed out lately has changed that

in fact I'm pretty sure I posted a reads list some pages back where they were pretty high up lol. so this is really not news?

[wavemode]

idk what I want here.. I don't want this nero wagon to go through, I don't like too many on the wagon. I want a coaster d1

can you define 'coasting" andante? I'm struggling to even understand where you're coming from because I don't think we are using the same definition for that word

[wavemode]

I feel like when I say someone is a coaster I mean they are avoiding participating in the game. Do you believe that's what I've been doing? and can you point to examples? I'm trying to understand where you're coming from with this

[wavemode]

ahhh haha, so, maybe this is not politically correct to say

but I felt like 58 was slightly more likely to come from town than scum

that... visceral negative reaction at the possibility of N_M being in the game

I feel like scum would love it if he were here

it was a small thing but it stood out to me a bit

[wavemode]

scum could write 58, sure, but it would have to be deliberately faked, you know? which, hey, maybe greeting has that skill and wherewithal, it's possible I guess

[wavemode]

but since then I've just generally townread greeting on the consistency of their thought process, I don't sense any opportunism in where they go with their reads and their votes

[wavemode]

not a ton has changed. though on the previous list FA was meant to be null and above her were the townreads. now she's more of a townread

I'll color it this time

fireisredsir
Stephen A Smith
HockeyFan
Greeting
Dwlee99
Frozen Angel

Andante
Umlaut
the worst

Nero Cain
Eyes without a face
Scorpious

[wavemode]

because he's managed to pocket several people by playing as scummy as possible

we should call it, the Eyes Paradox

[wavemode]

Almost 1000, yes 1000 posts and your reads changed like not at all.

Such a bs list

VOTE: Wave

I think you referred to it as a “scum claim”

we're back down to scum boys, we did it

this has to be some kind of record for most flipflops, surely

also, this comment is puzzling - why do you believe it is scummy for my reads to not have changed significantly since 1000 posts ago? You're not pointing out anything new, I myself recognized that they haven't changed all that much (though they have changed). But I don't get how that means I'm scum, can you explain?

[wavemode]

I think there are a lot of players who have gone even longer than 1000 posts without substantial read changes, why haven't you pursued anyone for that before?

[wavemode]

I think there are a lot of players who have gone even longer than 1000 posts without substantial read changes, why haven't you pursued anyone for that before?

Because nobody else has posted 2 nearly identical lists that span sooo much content and time.

And you have the audacity to say “not a ton has changed”

Dude. If I posted a list right after adandte did the whole un-E1 thing she would be red, now, I think todays real
Adante hits me as green.

Reads should be ever evolving and you’re expecting me to believe yours have been stagnant for so long.
Either the list is fake, which I think it is.
Or, you’re just not doing anything. Both anti-town behavior.

yeah... that doesn't actually make any sense. there's nothing to suggest someone's reads should necessarily change over a certain span of posts. and that if they don't it means the person is scum. like, that's just completely illogical on its face

but you do you buddy

[wavemode]

Why is stephen so high?

I townread him in my 214 and his play has remained consistent with that since then

[wavemode]

I mean I get earlier in the game, but cmon now, at this point hes just placing votes on people(unexplained ofc). Mafia can be consistent with thier play too

okay. so that means he's mafia?

[wavemode]

For all those who are piling up on Scorpious please refute my logic here so I can see why you disagree.

Even if I agreed that scum don't unvote when people are close to elimination (they do, all the fucking time, by the way) ... I would still ask, how can a single action counteract an entire day of scummy play?

After all:

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

[wavemode]

I'm just not sold on you being scum, like i said I was on your side until that desperate looking post. I still don;t feel compelled to put you on E-1..

This almost feels redundant to bring up (since we've already established that your progressions on everyone make zero sense this game) but uhhh

how did greeting making one post criticizing you for dropping off the nero wagon cause you to flip from being on his side to now threatening to E-1 him?

[wavemode]

@wavemode: Yes they do. But not under the circumstances here. When someone looks like they're going down anyway scum may hop off the wagon. When someone has been in and off for a while and it's hard to seal the wagon they'd be desperate to get a hammer in especially when they are a candidate for the alternate lim. But maybe you know more.

maybe that's how you play as scum but in my experience scum are not particularly "desparate" to make anything happen day 1. if they could get away with it, they'd love if nothing ever got done and nobody ever posted

[wavemode]

and clearly the fact that it made you townread him means unvoting worked lol

[wavemode]

Oh and also, I do have a terrible picture of Britney Spears in my profile picture, but I'm male. I don't mind "they" nor do I find being called female offensive, but it just confuses me as to whether it is me being referred to or someone else.

yeah usually if I'm already in the middle of writing a post and realize I can't remember someone's pronouns I just use they

[wavemode]

nope, false. and also, I've already responded to the last time you tried to claim this

still high buddy?

[wavemode]

you also never actually explained your latest flip back to scumreading me. i'll repeat the question you've decided to intentionally ignore - why is it scum indicative for someone's reads to not have substantially changed over the course of a certain arbitrary number of posts? and why have you not pursued anyone else in this game for the exact same thing?

[wavemode]

how have frozen angel's reads changed over the course of the last 1000 posts? I'd like you to be specific here, scorpious, since this is clearly behavior that you scumread strongly

how have dwlee's reads changed over the course of the last 1000 posts? how have stephen's? nero's? fire's?

[wavemode]

They havent posted lists that are nearly identical...

so what you're saying is, because they didn't post a list, you don't know what their reads are?

you mean to tell me that having the same reads over the course of 1000 posts is a scumtell to you, yet you haven't been keeping track of anyone's reads? why is that?

[wavemode]

and some of my reads have changed. so what are your X and Y variables, where X is the number of reads that are supposed to change and Y is the number of days that pass? clearly you have some standard in mind that I've failed to meet

[wavemode]

so moving 4 names is not enough? then how many is it supposed to be? lol it's your case I'm just trying to understand it

[wavemode]

you also didn't answer 1640 buddy

[wavemode]

if you've been keeping track of people's reads, then answer 1632

[wavemode]

and just to milk some more clock.

Answer me this. What in your opinion is the most significant event or exchange in this game? How did you feel about it,and how did it change your read on who was involved.

lol would you like that in MLA format

a lot has been significant. I don't know what's been most significant

here's a recent one: me realizing FA is probably town was significant, since my worry has always been that if she's scum she'd probably steamroll this game. I thought she might be town after 398 but wanted to stay cautious

then I would say her posture around townreading greeting matched my thoughts a lot and made me a bit more comfortable

[wavemode]

how have frozen angel's reads changed over the course of the last 1000 posts? I'd like you to be specific here, scorpious, since this is clearly behavior that you scumread strongly

how have dwlee's reads changed over the course of the last 1000 posts? how have stephen's? nero's? fire's?

lol, yeah dude I'm gonna ISO that.. good try though,especially when you know half the game stopped reading her posts. Why don't you ask about someone a little less choresome, I'll glady give you that.

I gave you a lot of different options. I'd think if this read changing thing were such a big deal for you you'd at least know *someone's* reads and how they've changed

[wavemode]

This is so weak. its sad..

yeah, your case is pretty weak. and it is kind of sad

[wavemode]

I would ask you what was benign or ineffectual about anything I said

but I already know you have no answer to that question and are just floundering, caught scum at this point

[wavemode]

wave just wondering have you looked at any of scorpio's past games

lightly but I haven't combed through them. to be perfectly honest with you I don't pay that much attention to meta these days. it's just so unreliable

that's something I tried to argue with mathdino about in an open we played not too long ago, when he was hard townreading uglyduck on the basis of meta (and basically telling me I needed to back off) but I persisted and pushed through uglyduck's elimination anyway and he was scum. meh

[wavemode]

@wave, can I have an answe to 1622

you didn't ask me a question in 1622

you disagree with the townread? okay. but, what specifically are you asking me?

[wavemode]

You said you changed your read a little bit on FA… that’s it.

No mention of wagons or votes or someone’s play just the easiest thing you could pull off the top of your head.

More to come

this coming from the guy who randomly wanted to eliminate umlaut very shortly after he joined the game purely because you felt like he wasn't contributing enough remember that?

you should really be self-voting at this point if these things you keep saying are actually things you believe people should be scumread for

[wavemode]

let's recap this conversation

scorp: I now scumread wavemode, because his reads didn't change enough since an arbitrary number of posts ago
wave: um... so?
scorp: (doesn't answer)
wave: so? how does that make someone scum?
scorp: well it means if you're town, you must be stubborn town
wave: uhhh okay...? also, why not scumread other people who have stuck with their reads all game?
scorp: uh well, they didnt post lists
wave: ummm so because they didn't post lists you weren't keeping track of anyone's reads? why not?
scorp: well, I was keeping track of their reads
wave: okay, so... what are their reads? and why don't you scumread them?
scorp: (doesn't answer)
scorp: by the way what's been the most significant things that's happened this game?
wave: wtf kind of question is that? alright whatever, here's an example
scorp: that's a bad example

[wavemode]

you clearly aren't looking at the latest list

[wavemode]

i don't think anybody needed this to realise Scorp is clowning but thanks

half the players in this game are not really reading it anymore, sadly

[wavemode]

i don't think you should be townreading him for it. im not. but it is giving me doubt, and i don't think that you should have the level of certainty that you're expressing here

I don't think you should be expressing such certainty in greeting

scorp is really our best lim at this point

[wavemode]

who do you think are scorp's partners?

oh, god, not you too

you really expect me to believe he's town on the basis of his interactions with my other scumreads? when nobody has actually flipped yet? and it could all be bussing anyway? you actually think that makes any sense?

[wavemode]

anyone is a possibility for his partner. if you're asking me who I think is most likely, I would obviously point to my other scumreads

and if your response to THAT is that you don't believe he and my other scumreads make for a plausible scumteam, then congratulations! you've made a completely pointless preflip assumption about a group of interactions that you know nothing about, in a game with daychat. and thus I have no response

[wavemode]

anyone who can genuinely attack someone else's scumreads on the basis that they don't believe that person's scumreads make for a likely scumteam together, just doesn't know how to play mafia. sorry but, there I said it, don't tweet @ me

(I'm not saying you're attacking me, I'm more referring to greeting, who I already argued with at length about this)

[wavemode]

the other people I scumread are possible partners. are they not?

[wavemode]

like you're basically asking me, who I think is scum? just phrased differently

[wavemode]

yeah but, first of all, we're pre-flip. and second of all, scum will happily interact with their partners in any way that makes them seem like not partners. attacking defending, you name it I've literally seen it all. so I really don't put very much weight in that. unless I think the given player is just too inexperienced to know about these very common strategies

[wavemode]

in fact I did briefly float an alternate theory, in my 911. (tbh it still wouldn't surprise me all that much if that were the case)

so yeah in specific situations like that my mind tends to go, okay maybe they are scum and they want me to think this, so maybe the *opposite* is true

[wavemode]

Wave, why is Angel your lowest town read?

I mean, why not? I'm simply more sure of my other townreads

If you're curious, here was my progression on angel:

here's a recent one: me realizing FA is probably town was significant, since my worry has always been that if she's scum she'd probably steamroll this game. I thought she might be town after 398 but wanted to stay cautious

then I would say her posture around townreading greeting matched my thoughts a lot and made me a bit more comfortable

[wavemode]

flail harder dude

[wavemode]

"why you're so adamant on tring him for consistency"

if you're asking me why I think he's town, I've given those reasons. If you want me to restate it or rephrase it somehow, okay I can explain it again I guess? But I don't really know how to answer a question like why am I confident in my own townread. I just am? it strikes me as a strange question, like why is anyone confident in things they believe? because they believe them

[wavemode]

If I townread someone for something and they continue to play the exact same way, what, I'm supposed to scumread them now? like neither of you are making any sense here

[wavemode]

look, scumread stephen if you want to. scumread me if you want to. I have literally no possible way to respond to illogical questions like "why are you confident in your own townread". like what in god's name is that supposed to mean

[wavemode]

Fair, but mafia can do the same thing as Stephen no?

okay, true. but I consider that less likely than the alternative possiblity where he's town

that's what townreading means

[wavemode]

I feel like everyone in this game expects me to have short term memory loss. "Oh hey look this guy who's done 100 scummy things this game just did 1 townie thing, you oughtta forget all that other shit, he's definitely town!"

"oh look this guy you thought was town all game just did something I personally consider scummy, better agree with me and flip your read or else I'm going to start thinking you're not really scumhunting!"

[wavemode]

where am I?

[wavemode]

congrats on goon

[wavemode]

taking it all in, this game has indeed been extremely dense. 72 pages on day 1 yeesh

the longest mini normal I ever played in was completely over by 91 pages

[wavemode]

nope, its me or greeting today

or uhhh scorpious??

7+ people have already said they were willing to vote scorp

[wavemode]

yes sadly FA is not Triple Voter this game

[wavemode]

flail harder dude

we have time

[wavemode]

you and everyone else here already knows the answer to that question. there are three people I'm willing to vote today (and, indeed, I have voted all three of them at various times)

but you are by far my favorite

[wavemode]

Why do you always have to have a quip before an answer? We get it you're edgy, you made that point.

jesus christ scorp, get over yourself. it's just a game

Also,I thinks its super scummy that you would keep it so hidden that you want me voted... noob

it's not hidden, it's very obvious and I've stated it repeatedly

Real question- yes or no. Would you remove your vote from your 3 if they were not a viable wagon to secure a lim?

not if it's on someone I townread. a null? depends. nobody has made any such push or case thus far

[wavemode]

I guess more specific, would you vote Greeting over Nero? again, just yes or no please

hell no

[wavemode]

for a second I thought you were telling everyone to sheep eyes

[wavemode]

it was harder than nero, sure

but scorp? scorp seems to be invisible to you all for some reason

[wavemode]

It's been nice knowing you greeting

[wavemode]

duck isn't living to day 2 sooooo yall can go party in dead thread together

uhhhh what

[wavemode]

VOTE: scorpious

scorp you yourself pulled your vote off nero at a point, and it helped dissolve the wagon

so what are you even talking about criticizing andante for doing so

[wavemode]

you're probably reading too much into the semantics

but, if it means an eyes wagon is on the table then let's gooo

VOTE: eyes with no lashes

[wavemode]

What? What happend to u sussing scorpious for what feels like whatever

again, you ask me the most baffling questions lol

I can't scumread more than one person?

[wavemode]

[wavemode]

I'm sorry my brain said no but my heart said yes let's make a meme

[wavemode]

@wave you last metnioned eyes in 1545(where u had them as a SR, sure), but u didnt mention them at all after, and were mainly pushing scrop

yes, all of this is true

but it does not mean I stopped scumreading eyes

[wavemode]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88666

This has just ended. Maybe some of you would like a fresh meta read as well as see how SCUM try to set me up from the get go. I don't see much difference between what TTTT was doing there and what Dwlee is doing here except TTTT was actually pretending to play the game and Dwlee doesn't even bother to do that

the only way this example would have been compelling was if it showed town!you doing the things I currently scumread you for

but there was none of that

so that was a pointless read

[wavemode]

Adante could be a pr with a result.

VOTE: Scorpious

[wavemode]

i was kinda thinking that scorp isn't maf because maf might take some more time to actually think about what they're saying and make it not sound so bad

when people tell you who they really are, believe them

[wavemode]

Other top suspect is Andante
next in line is Scorp and then Eye

she wanted nero, andante, scorp, eyes

why is scum shooting FA if all or most of these people are town

fire is the most townread person in the game and plays very measured and carefully. easy shot

FA on the other hand was flooding the thread and people had mostly stopped reading her posts. and a number of people were suspicious of her. why'd the scumteam think she was dangerous?

think hard people

[wavemode]

meta is unreliable, I've said that repeatedly. but, one thing reading your meta (at fire's behest) has shown me, is that you play a very sassy scumgame

so, please keep it up boo

[wavemode]

I've played in games of town!andante with this exact interaction:

andanta: *votes player X*
(later)
andante: *unvotes player X*
andante: why are people voting player X? they're town!
rest of game: uhhh so then why were YOU voting player X?
andante: I was just sheeping

so unless someone has a better case than this I don't think I have enough to move her into my scum pile

in fact overall I would say I've seen everything here that I would normally expect from an andante game. nothing really AI

[wavemode]

Meta says Adante is town

you're gonna have to try harder than that

no, I never said this. I simply said, the case I've seen thus far for scum!andante is unconvincing. I specifically said I've seen "nothing really AI" in these interactions

[wavemode]

Meta says you are scum

no, your play in this game says you are scum. your sassiness is just a nice cherry on top

I mean, maybe you are sassy in your town games too? i don't really know, nor was that my point

[wavemode]

scorp, you are scum. period. based on your play in THIS game, not any other.

yes, if someone felt like townreading you on your tone/attitude this game, the fact that your town and attitude in past scum games has matched that, should debunk such a townread. but that is not tantamount to saying, "you are scum based on meta"

would you like me to dumb it down even more?

[wavemode]

would you like me to write out my whole case on you again? I would looooove to wallpost about you all day long scorpious, just let me get off work and my keys will go a'flyin

[wavemode]

every time you try to downplay the case on you it fills me with newfound motivation to see you die, you have no idea dude

[wavemode]

eyes has already claimed VT

perhaps the worst has information suggesting he is not

[wavemode]

day 2 compulsive desperado

[wavemode]

sorry, so, the worst. help me follow this. what is your current stance? eyes is town? stephen is scum? and what are the rest of your reads?

[wavemode]

Instantly disbelieving a PR claim usually comes from scum imo

I find the opposite is true... scum suffer from TMI, thus they often feel like they *have* to believe claims or else they will look bad once it turns out they are wrong

the only times I've seen someone instantly disbelieve a pre-lylo claim (except a guilty on themself, of course), they've been town

in fact just yesterday fire did not believe hockey's claim. how was that different?

[wavemode]

can the people who do not believe nero's claim please take a stance on hockeyfan. are they scum fakeclaiming GS and backup GS together? and why do you believe so

[wavemode]

what if I told you that I'm a 1-shot rolecop and I know for a fact that hockeyfan is a backup 1-shot gunsmith

so my knee jerk reaction to nero's claim was, how did he know to claim gunsmith of all things? hockey had not told us what he was a backup for

unless they are mafia GS and mafia backup GS? which, wow wtf. but it's technically possible I suppose. still, it's strange to claim that together and become joined at the hip (the typical risk associated with mason fakeclaims)

[wavemode]

why would you use your one rolecop shot on hockey of all people

there is no "of all people" with rolecopping, what are you even talking about. there's almost no point shooting a rolecop shot blindly

I pretty much only considered shooting it at people who had claimed, namely eyes and hockey. if I found out they were lying about their claim, boom that's a guilty

now, consider two alternative failure scenarios. scenario 1: I shoot at eyes and it comes back vanilla. great, I've gained zero information from this, since I would come away still thinking he's a mafia goon

scenario 2: I shoot at hockey and it comes back backup <some role>. now I at least gain some setup information - namely, that someone who later claims to be that role, is probably telling the truth and is indeed that role. either that or is incredibly lucky (or mafia also have a rolecop who targeted hockey? ehhhh okay)

so the hockey shot gained me information regardless of its result

[wavemode]

or, as I said before, they're mafia gunsmiths together. which, again, wtf, but okay whatever

[wavemode]

I've been killed n1 before just for having good reads. I don't hold onto my shots when there are viable targets on the table

the most likely scenario, regardless of what I decided to do, was that my role would be completely useless. that's fine. but holding onto it just increases that likelihood, not decreases it

[wavemode]

checking out a claim when one happens

a claim happened. I checked it out.

[wavemode]

lets try this one more time..

VOTE: Nero

what in the fuck is this vote

[wavemode]

can we get rid of scorpious please

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if nero is town he will have a result for us tonight. it could be very critical information

why is eliminating him today so goddamn urgent

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FWIW I've played in a normal that had a gunsmith and backup gunsmith

we mopped up the mafia team then lost to an SK

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after an eventual massclaim, setup spec will determine whether their roles are feasible or not, and whether their results are correct or not. and if not, we've caught 2 scum in one package

that's why I highlighted that their claiming together ties them together in a very risky way

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VOTE: eyes let's make it happen people

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will u accept "wanted to eliminate the EN GS so mafia (presumably her team) can shoot the backup"

yeah but... shooting you tonight already prevents you from sharing your results, no?

then shoot the backup tomorrow

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ok maybe i should have just done this right away but i didn't want to. sue me. i don't think eyes is scum so i think it's worth doing now. scum might have overplayed their hand here

i CC gunsmith. im gunsmith straight up, no modifiers. i looked at nero n1 and got action failed, no result

unvote eyes and probably vote nero

good god, yes you should have done this right away

now Nero's gambit outed 2 town PRs (3, if he didn't actually know hockey's full role) instead of 1

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okay this next part I'm going to try to do from my phone since I am moving this weekend and won't get to a PC for a while

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first and foremost, VOTE: Scorpious. I have a hard guilty on him

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Second and secondmost, I am a

Town Jack of All Trades

. Rolecop was just one of my two abilities. I'm also a Follower. I followed Scorpious last night. He performed a nightkill and a jailkeep action

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dont have to tell me twice to vote scorp
VOTE: Scoepious

I've had to tell you hundreds of times and nobody ever does it

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why rolecop the person claiming backup gs as town??

as I mentioned in my 2491, there were two people who had claimed. if I could prove one of them was lying, that's a guilty. but if it came back they were telling the truth, with eyes I'd gain nothing but with hockey I'd at least gain some setup information

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I have a tiny bit more information but for right now I want to see how Scorpious responds

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Wave sensed the pressure building on him and decided to go all in.

oh? lol okay. so then why did I crumb my exact role very plainly at the very beginning of the game?

Here's the first letter of my first 11 posts after RVS:

157 - J
158 - O
164 - A
175 - T
194 - 1
205 - S
214 - R
223 - C
348 - 1
349 - S
351 - F


aka Jack Of All Trades 1 Shot Role Cop 1 Shot Follower

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your only way to complicate matters a bit would've been to try to claim multitasking JK Vig or some shit. which would be ridiculous yeah but maybe with enough arguing and some crumbs you could have triggered a massclaim

but now you've made this very simple. you're just confscum

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Wave you have a vigilante shot, correct?

No, I've claimed my full powers at this point

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For what it's worth, I also think it's weird that they have an alien enabler and a jailkeeper

If I were fakeclaiming I would have just said he abducted. Or just left that part out, the nightkill was enough

As it stands all I can say is, that's a Datisi setup for you lol

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called it

it's such an abrupt shift that in the back of my mind I would not be surprised if umlaut was scum and they just agreed in their daychat that scorp should bus him

like it's such a sudden and random push for seemingly no reason at all

gg boys