Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

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sup

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very funny that I only have to go back one page to see that else has both made and retracted a cop claim

never change

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my enchant read also has some associatives with ausuka

ew pre-flip associatives

*spray bottle noises*

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I don't think she retracted it

oh I saw someone quoting geraintm saying that she had

either way it shouldn't be taken seriously

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talking of VOTE: elsa

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I'm so here for an Elsa vote homie, how many we at

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hi ausuka

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I think I read Gimli as town

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talking of VOTE: elsa

Not happening.

don't tempt me

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okay, tell me why you're so strong on Elsa being town then? I'm not wedded to the vote but I'm not wedded to anyone yet

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scintillating argument

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yeah, I'm down to kill Elsa than, kokichi, how many votes do we have?

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enchant, you down to go Elsa if you get to hammer someone tomorrow?

ausuka, I saw you saying that you disliked kokichi re:elsa during my catch up, but I'm p sure that I also gleaned that you think kokichi scum p strongly -- if you step aside from that or try to, do you think Elsa is more likely town or scum?

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you're going to get nowhere with this

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imagine believing in cases

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shudders

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I am not interested anymore.

sadge, how come?

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You are not going to push Elsa. Get a better vote.

see you say you don't want me to do the thing

and then you continue to do things that make me

really, really

want to do the thing

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I've never been good with warnings

Comus probably town I guess

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town?
gimli
comus

meh-be town?
kokichi

meh
magical girl
ausuka
klick
enchant
gera
nep (originally in would kill but then I realised their avi is mitski so they get a pass for d1)

meh, but would kill?
elsa
kawaii
StD

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incidentally I do want to kill MG kinda too but feel that (1) it would be hypocritical as half the reasoning is "should you not have done more by now?" when I've been moving away from that for a long time + she signed up on an alt and (2) as far as I remember she was never necessarily a D1 solver anyway

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I find the townreads on kawaii kinda baffling

I’d be happy to do kawaii

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I'm not self voting but I'm definitely not against flipping me, it'll take comus' head out of his tunnel, maybe he'll read my posts after i'm dead?????

No, bad, never accept being flipped if you’re town, we can just ignore comus

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Hi klick

We don’t seem to be seeing eye to eye this game, can we talk at some point?

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Also how dare you call me meh I am a very cute frog

You are only ever meh in terms of my ability to read you, you’re of course S tier when it comes to being a cute frog

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Oh lastly gera moves up into meh-be town tier

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VOTE: kawaii

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Bro, leave me the fuck alone before I stop being friendly about it

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I have treated you with some slight levity and have made it clear that at this point I’m not interested in interacting with you further before you remove head from sphincter.

In case it wasn’t crystal clear: I have no interest in interacting with you within the game for now because you clearly have zero interest in actually trying to solve the game with anyone rather than treating it as an exercise in ego massage

This is me being blunt but I think reasonably polite. Leave me be, make your cases to other people, I don’t want to talk to you

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I’m off to make dinner because I just had some great rolls and I don’t wanna end my day on a negative note

Catch y’all tomorrow most likely — klick, hopefully catch you live soon

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he had a bunch of L takes

excuse me

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KawaiiKame - Prob town

why?

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Bro, leave me the fuck alone before I stop being friendly about it

Make some sense with your votes. You don't have to be friendly. Just helpful. Voting Elsa and Kawaii without sharing why isn't.

simply put: Elsa I consider to be generally anti-town in games and therefore a solid vote when there's nothing else around. I absolutely don't believe the cop claim.

kawaii I skimmed ISO for and nothing made me think town while I was reading, so I don't mind limming there if there isn't appetite for Elsa today

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plus both of them had heavily faded off and aren't really playing atp which further endears me to the idea of killing them

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Kawaii hasn't tried to solve, once.

seems like a decent reason to vote kawaii to me

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That kind of logic almost makes me feel you joined this game specifically to kill me Menal. Bleh.

Doesn't help we have 3 or 4 people here who don't play "normal". What a fun time.

I would never do that, I mostly joined for MG, klick, and ausuka, but you do seem like a solid default vote when there's not something more appealing whispering sweet nothings in my ear

also, tbf, I'm not actually trying to kill u rn

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You said two people were more likely to be scum than town and that is a high level of confidence for *anyone* to have d1 never mind someone who hasn't read the thread. You can't have it both ways

I agree with this and I think this is what's been ehhh for me about klick so far -- not sure I've ever seen him be this confident before as town (certainly not on D1?) but my last experience playing with him was him single-handedly dragging an entire town over the finish line to a win despite their absolute best efforts to throw so: file under "concerned, but would not go after today"

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KawaiiKame - Prob town

why?

Tone

I cannot express enough how much I hate this answer to questions about prob town people when there is no elaboration

what about his town?

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KawaiiKame - Prob town

why?

Tone

I cannot express enough how much I hate this answer to questions about prob town people when there is no elaboration

what about his tone?

ebwop

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VOTE: Save The Dragons

This is absolutely the vote that should be happening today

I absolutely disagree and think that STD is limping his way into being the compromise vote that's probably town

he hasn't done anything that's screamed town at me so if everyone bar me wants this I'm not gonna kill myself defending him but I think we should push through a more difficult/controversial option bc I think that's more likely to flip scum

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Why you so convinced Elsa's cop claim is a fake claim?

familiarity with her on any level?

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Look theough Kawaii's ISO.

One topic: Elsa. I've never seen something like it.

This is disingenuous af and I feel you know it, me talking about Elsa extensively does not invalidate me asking how Elsa's cop claim is fakeclaiming by tone alone? Elsa is not my one topic either, why do you strawman me?

Instead of answering my question you dodge it by saying I talk about Elsa a lot...

Pretty much yeah

Why you so convinced Elsa's cop claim is a fake claim? Tone? Show evidence of this tone, Elsa is uncc'd cop Idek why she's being pushed as a potential elimination option

idg why you're quoting kawaii like this tbh

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oh. shit, yeah, that probably would've been a good move actually ausuka

also, you realise why you're not in town for me right?

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I am dumb who we vote

kawaii?

Not sure if you're reading this as an ordered reads list, I don't think it's meant to be that

not the order, just awful list, we're a million pages in and this is what gera has to say.

sorry. but what is there to really go on? i can remember exactly one wagon all game

if you're not TRing kawaii (I can see ur not from your thoughts post) why not lim them? we gotta lim somewhere

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No? You just replaced in and I don't think you've talked about it

I would 100% be TRing you by now if I hadn't just had you carry my sorry ass to a win through like 4 days of solo play

like Mulder, I want to believe, but I can't fully yet. happy to treat you as town for now though

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oh, MG's here, what were my L takes, MG?

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anyway, updated reads:

town
comus
gimli

town (provisional)
ausuka
gera

meh-be town
StD

null
kokichi
MG

concerned
klick
nep

killable:
elsa
kawaii
enchant

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oh, hm, why kawaii town?

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KawaiiKame
Looks as confused as their avatar in general. 181 readlist 100% was formed on the spot upon being asked. This looks less faked and more flow of thoughts though, which is more town indicative than whatnot. A lot of their other posts are... well... completely missing the point of things they're responding to. Being conscious of who's voting them is noted. Overall though, I feel like this player is just lost and trying to get a grasp of what is going on here, and I think it's more town thing. I think scum in same situation would try to appeal more about how they're lost. So I think I like this person as leaning town.

or like, anything beyond this?

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I think gimli is lost in a town way (flip flopping, wanting to die, starting beef, trying to solve), I think kawaii is lost in a scum way (not really engaging, being mostly absent, not knowing what to comment on)

I feel kinda bad but it reads like newbscum to me

that said I'm not like hard committed on it and I'd be down to kill Elsa or enchant instead I guess

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VOTE: Save The Dragons

This is absolutely the vote that should be happening today

I absolutely disagree and think that STD is limping his way into being the compromise vote that's probably town

he hasn't done anything that's screamed town at me so if everyone bar me wants this I'm not gonna kill myself defending him but I think we should push through a more difficult/controversial option bc I think that's more likely to flip scum

I mean I'm not massively confident on the vote on std but i think he's been, uh, very underwhelming and I think 'compromise' or non-controversial lims can be scum pretty often? I don't think scum tend to like defending partners who are lackluster under pressure in that way

I also don't think kawaii would feel like any less of a compromise lim? I'm not really sure how to approach kawaii though, it's been a few years since I played a newbie game

I feel like there is more resistance to kawaii than there is to StD -- like, perfectly possible I'm being egocentric and missing stuff but is anyone bar me against limming StD? and even there I'm kinda like "eh guess he's town bc of how it's going down but I'm not going to anything beyond saying this to try and go elsewhere"

I mean if you particularly want StD over kawaii I can roll with that, it's a good point that scum often don't like to try and defend scum if they already seemed doomed

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This probably doesn't matter very much but if kawaii does flip scum Klick is almost never scum because of the 'unccd town compulsive visitor thing' and I doubt elsa would be scum either?

I guess the scumread on Std does feel convenient but she made the read before the wagon really took off just now

Shrug

pedit: honestly both of them are in a fairly similar space of being not quite scumread but below neutral, I like std slightly less and want to give kawaii more benefit of the doubt cos she's obviously a new player

this is funny bc while I'm trying to not do pre-flip associatives klick was basically my number 1 next scumread in a world where kawaii flips scum lol

not related to claim in any way, just from the engagement pattern between the two. could definitely be klick!town trying to get a new player into the game but also good be klick trying to set up kawaii to engage with thread when kawaii doesn't know how

don't see the Elsa connection personally, but eh, I can go StD, how many votes we at?

also are you still on gimli!scum or?

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when I say coaching I mean more like... support? I assume that any actual coaching would be taking place in scum PT, yes

I mean more like softballs of stuff to respond or commenting on kawaii's posts with stuff like 'good reads' or w/e

sigh where is a player anal enough to keep track of votes when mod is MIA when u need one

I don't think we're anywhere near to hammer VOTE: StD

sorry bud

pedit: I think it's a fine line bc sometimes it can set you up to be killed if right or killed if wrong and then used to frame you as having been right. I like to out it on a case-by-case basis. while I think lying to town is most often a terrible idea, I think withholding a certain amount of what you're thinking is often a good choice. I also doubt I die during the night given claims etc

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eh, okay, wouldn't have minded a bit more time to talk but it's fairly immaterial

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I mean if Gera hadn't enchant would've lol

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sigh where is a player anal enough to keep track of votes when mod is MIA when u need one

also talk about speak of the devil eh?

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love u MG

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when I say coaching I mean more like... support? I assume that any actual coaching would be taking place in scum PT, yes

I mean more like softballs of stuff to respond or commenting on kawaii's posts with stuff like 'good reads' or w/e

Ah i see what you're saying now

Still, I don't really think it's intuitive for scum to be so friendly with their partners and i also think it's sort of natural to be sympathetic to kawaii here, especially if you town read her? I don't fully understand the rationale for why people do but it feels like enough people have done so at some point that it isn't necessarily a scum thing

Whatever this is probably not a super useful discussion to be having. Ty for the votecount mg

yeah you've sold me that it's probably NAI either way as far as they relate to one another and I was probably making the connection because of being a bit ehh on klick and thinking that kawaii can easily be scum, then going into pre-flip associative territory (ew, bad, gross) and losing my map a bit

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mod, pls prod nepe during the night too

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rip, sorry StD

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I'll be around probably tomorrow

implo, I have a standing weekend V/LA pls

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oh but also higazer!

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Think about it. Why out of all players, YOU was "checked"?

Did Elsa even express scumread on you?

Cuz at least I know with a clear Gimli will be helpful. You and Kokichi are just riding on me supposedly fake claiming and trying to kill me with no other game solve.

I've said this in the past but cop checks are meant for people your unsure of, not people obviously scummy.

why were you unsure of gimli tho? I feel like gimli is fairly clearly town (need to check based on events) but pretty much everyone bar ausuka has him as town -- it would've been much more helpful if even instead of targeting an obvscum player, you'd targeted someone who was unclear to thread in general

I mean, I don't think you're cop, but even within the claim choosing gimli seems like a v poor choice that I struggle to understand

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it was the 6th vote. i at least has said i would vote longest wagon, they must have known this was going to get STD dead and they say instead "i don't think we're anywhere near to hammer" !

we hadn't had a VC in forever, I didn't think anyone was above like e-3

especially as they posted this after.

their posts leading up to their vote on STD were bad too, lots of "Well...i dont really want to vote SD but if that is what you want"

I hate this vote. worst of the lot

I think there is likely a pair of scum in amoung that lot, i think there are high odds for sure. comus least likely to be scum

that was out of context, when MG hammered and I realised that my vote had been e-1 then I meant that anyone would've plausibly hammered after putting StD to e-1

why is it bad or +scum to be willing to compromise on a vote?

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Unfortunately I think you're likely town, but if you're going to get in the way of us getting scum, you're better off elim'd

sadly a logic that leads to towns losing

so long as someone is kinda willing to play ball that's better than limming them, we might just have to go for a different scum first

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can anyone describe ausuka's scum meta to me these days? i remember her hating playing as scum

I can't describe her meta but she's goooood at scum nowadays, I'll link you a game where she carried us to a win over multiple days

I still think she's town here tho, although if I run out of other slots to sort then she's prob where I'd first look at & reconsider

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here u go sky, she carried solo from D5 through to the win on D8

viewtopic.php?t=89870

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anyway, reads

town
comus
gera
gimli

town (provisional)
ausuka
kokichi

day-pass
kawaii

concerned
klick
sky

killable:
elsa
enchant

not a whole lot has changed, I'd like to flip either Elsa or enchant today

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rude

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ausuka, how would you feel about an enchant lim today?

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locktowning enchant fwiw

I'm glad you've finally seen the light

oh, sad, missed this

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klick

who did you visit?

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I'm also a fucking vt

pls stop claiming ur roles everyone

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it is literally D2

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I mean, I would do Elsa but aorn I’d lean more towards enchant

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i think i need to summerise for myself who i think is most likely to be scum based on what i've looked at

Melanque

if you think I'm scum then can you engage me on the why? I asked you a question before which fair enough if you missed, but why does it make me scummier to be working to establish consensus on lims?

also, it's Menalque

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I don't want to lim kawaii today because MG was so sure that kawaii is town. I would probably begrudgingly compromise there if I can't get something else through

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If anyone wants to ask me things in particular I'm happy to dialogue about it and that might help?

hi! I see that kawaii gradually moved up in your reads when I went through your ISO -- why did this happen?

what do you see as townie about kokichi? I don't disagree but I'd like a second opinion and currently a decent number of people are trying to kill them

what's your opinion on ausuka atp?

I'm kind of surprised to see myself in the people you're confident are town -- I saw that you said you're generally feeling your reads more than you used to, and admittedly I have been trash as scum recently, but I'm still a lil surprised to see myself up there. is there something in particular you're TRing me for or just a vibe or what's going on there?

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how would you feel about voting enchant with me, klick?

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VOTE: enchant

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kawaii what are your current reads anyway?

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is anyone other than ausuka strongly opposed to an enchant lim?

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I'm sorry Enchant, I don't understand that statement

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gotcha -- I just don't think that's true?

I won't deny that you get limmed a lot by default or that a lot of pushes on you are lazy, but equally I have a few people I think are town and of the ones left over I don't feel super strongly that anyone is scum and you're probably the easiest to get through

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the fundamental question is always: who can I get the votes on?

regardless of if you're town or scum. I think I can get the votes on you and that you have a decent chance of flipping scum

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that's a simplification of what I said but in essence I suppose you're not wrong

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elsa, strange times lead to strange bedfellows... how would you feel about supporting an enchant lim today?

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Menal, Klick. You two replaced in. Solve this game for us plz.

I’m trying to but everyone is too focused on their pet reads or 1v1s to actually get a functioning town going overall, let alone a townbloc

I’m probably willing to vote kokichi atp, shocked to find myself saying this but I agree with comus, the readslist was astonishingly bad

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Ausuka, when you come back I’d like you to tell me how often people playing like comus have ended up flipping town vs ended up flipping scum in ur experience

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VOTE: kokichi

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i think i need to summerise for myself who i think is most likely to be scum based on what i've looked at

Melanque

if you think I'm scum then can you engage me on the why? I asked you a question before which fair enough if you missed, but why does it make me scummier to be working to establish consensus on lims?

also, it's Menalque

Sorry for spelling name wrong

i said you were most likely to be scum, not that i was sure (if i had been sure i would have voted you but i didnt, and i think i even said to another player i had an imaginary vote on them). i went through the votes, and the way and when you got onto the wagon and your reasoning just to me made you the person most likely to be scum.

i've got nothing else but actions to go on, and the result of the few night actions we've been told about. when i was going over everyone, you were the person who stood out the most.

does that make sense?

I know, I don't think I said that you were sure I was scum either. However, I'm fairly sure you're town and due to my feeling that this town is generally speaking fairly dysfunctional, I consider it higher priority than normal to try and get you to understand me/see that I'm also town but just coming at the game differently

if you're truly wedded to the idea that only actions can tell us what alignment people are this may be a lost cause, but worth a shot

I'd now like to go through some of your other posts on me

Menal, Klick. You two replaced in. Solve this game for us plz.

I’m trying to but everyone is too focused on their pet reads or 1v1s to actually get a functioning town going overall, let alone a townbloc

I’m probably willing to vote kokichi atp, shocked to find myself saying this but I agree with comus, the readslist was astonishingly bad

no you are not. you are all like "who can i flip that isn't me?" or "random player X, you wanna go halves with me on a miselimination?"

you ain't solving at all

firstly this: just because the way I solve is not the same way you solve or how you expect people to solve doesn't make it not solving.

what I mean is basically this: I am not good at spotting scum. I learned this from playing plenty of games and while occasionally getting it right, only managing to at best hit two members of a team and often after limming town who were doing things I thought were scummy.

so now my approach is simpler and something I'm stealing from an interview with Thor665 from a post I read over at mafia451 (https://forum.mafia451.com/t/thor665-ponders-mafia/1113). basically everything is scummy and nothing is scummy -- scum players do all sorts of shit and I realised that a decent number of my scum wins were because I did something town thought would be suboptimal for scum to do and therefore they mentally cleared me.

this is also why I'm somewhat indifferent about the flip -- so long as it's not someone I townread, I don't expect to necessarily be on scum, I'm just trying to get to the point where I have enough TRs I'm confident in that if I can then lim all the remaining players it should get all the scum even if some town are limmed along the way

elsa, strange times lead to strange bedfellows... how would you feel about supporting an enchant lim today?

i...i have no words. reading your posts in order im just flabbergasted

hence this -- I'm leaning away from limming Elsa. I don't exactly want to get into why, and I don't feel strongly Elsa is town so I wouldn't cry about it, but I need votes to lim people who aren't in my town list (namely, you, gimli, comus) and Elsa has a vote. my feelings on Elsa being potential scum doesn't preclude me from asking for her support to lim someone else I think could be scum

the fundamental question is always: who can I get the votes on?

regardless of if you're town or scum. I think I can get the votes on you and that you have a decent chance of flipping scum

what??
this reads awful.
this reads like what scum would be saying in their scum chat - yet you said it all out loud???

and I mean... this is just true? it does me absolutely zero good to sit there yelling about how someone is scum if there clearly isn't enough support for limming them within thread and my attempts to persuade people about it aren't working.

it's much more sensible to consider who I think is limmable on a given day and then try to steer it towards people I don't think are town

how would you feel about voting enchant with me, klick?

your last few posts aren't great. giving someone a pass because of a dead person's read.
putting out vague feelers with another player to start a wagon.
all too back seat.

lastly -- and I hope now the back seat-ness and the vague feelers thing are explained -- why would I not give a pass for a dead player's read? fmpov I know that I can trust MG to have been sincere because she's flipped and she said she was incredibly confident that kawaii was town. I may not like that, but I trust MG as a player in general and I don't think my perceptions of the game are necessarily right. if I feel like 50% that kawaii is scum, for instance, and MG tells me that she's 90% on kawaii town and I KNOW that MG is town... why not trust the person who feels more confident?

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Ausuka, when you come back I’d like you to tell me how often people playing like comus have ended up flipping town vs ended up flipping scum in ur experience

I do not really think I've seen anything like his d2 play

In a vague sense 'town can play badly' is accurate, obviously, and I thought comus was town for the reasons you're insinuating for most of the game.

I can't really reconcile his arrogance with the willingness to totally change pace. Acting like he has the game solved on d2, accusing me of gaslighting which is an abuse word, and mocking people for not having the same solve he does - and hours later, he just posts a meme and votes Elsa Jay for fakeclaiming - after accusing me of gaslighting because I said elsa was fakeclaiming!!!! There is a limit to what I can tolerate

to clarify; I have seen town be arrogant, but when they are, they tend to be very persistent in their beliefs and do not change their minds unless somehow forced to.

I thought originally this was miscommunication and he just wasn't as confident as he sounds, but his stuff on d2 was just like, crossing the line twice over on what can be explained by bad communication

not really talking about the "town can play badly" thing, so much as the "fanatical overconfidence in their abilities" thing.

reminds me of koba tbh (who I think has now chilled out but certainly shortly after joining site koba). I was also bothered by the changing of stances there but I saw koba be confidently totally wrong about things, then completely change their view and be still 100% confident that they were now right despite the impossibility of having been totally right in both cases.

I will read him again to see if this is egregious beyond the point of what I think is reasonable, and I know that I might just be getting sold on the playstyle here but I really do think this comes from town waaaaaay more than scum however annoying it is.

sorry about the gaslighting stuff tho that is fucked, and I should've noticed and said something earlier

Also, with regards to the pet reads thing - do you *expect* me to vote someone I townread when your case on them is that they're easy to kill?

no, I more mean that people are seemingly too committed to their top read. if you actively TR someone that's different and I wasn't just talking about you -- I meant more the people who had enchant in their limmable pile but who weren't willing to vote there because they were too focused on going after someone else. see: Gera, you vs comus and also you vs gimli yesterday (not in reference to enchant but to what I think are likely TvT fights), there were more but memory no work yet, coffee not hit

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anyway, reads

town
comus
gera
gimli

town (provisional)
ausuka
kokichi

day-pass
kawaii

concerned
klick
sky

killable:
elsa
enchant

not a whole lot has changed, I'd like to flip either Elsa or enchant today

Menal, Klick. You two replaced in. Solve this game for us plz.

I’m trying to but everyone is too focused on their pet reads or 1v1s to actually get a functioning town going overall, let alone a townbloc

I’m probably willing to vote kokichi atp, shocked to find myself saying this but

I agree with comus, the readslist was astonishingly bad

Again for me, so I have better understanding of game state

KawaiiKame - Could be scum or could be town idk. I'm not getting the solving vibe I got from him trying in DN maf
geraintm - town
Menalque - idr any of their posts
Gimli - probably town but playing bad
Elsa Jay - probably scum
Comus - playing bad and probably scum for it
Skygazer - said 2 funny posts that I can remember, don't know what else they've done
Enchant - probably town
Ausuka - town
Klick - I think I liked their catchup posts but null

Menalque would you like to share with the class what was ridiciously bad, when it's quite similar to your reads list? I'd say we switched enchant and comus but other than that, pretty similar. So please tell the class

sure! I deliberately don't go into detail on my lists, they're purely for reference but I can explain to anyone why they're in the part they are if desired

it's not the actual reads that bother me in your list, it's the reasonings that you've attached to them. I dislike very much that you've slapped two people with the playing bad label yet come to completely opposite conclusions on them. I dislike that you've opted out of giving a read on the sky/nep slot by only commenting on sky -- there was a whole other player you can look at too! I dislike that you say you can't remember any of my posts and don't give any read on me when we've directly interacted at a few points, plus this seems to have regressed. I dislike that you opt out of giving a read on klick in the moment and focus, again, on what has already happened in a very non-committal way. I disliked that enchant and Elsa were one scum/one town but as I write this I realise I was being a bit unfair there as while I think both could easily be scum I get how anyone who thinks one is more likely scum is correspondingly more likely to think the other is town.

overall, there's a lot of things I dislike and it feels very, very hedge-y and shallow.

[Menalque]

yo, comus, I missed the bit where this happened but can you like, stop telling ausuka she's gaslighting? it's clearly bothering her and it's not cool

[Menalque]

Menal locktowned for being tunneled on townie?

Makes sense.

who am I tunnelled on?

[Menalque]

@klick, when you do get here, another question: hollow knight mafia recently finished -- how do you think Gimli's play there compares/contrasts to his play here?

@comus, I appreciate that, thanks. understandable confusion and personally I'm not bothered by people using it @me so I get where you're coming from

[Menalque]

get a room you two

[Menalque]

Menal locktowned for being tunneled on townie?

Makes sense.

who am I tunnelled on?

@enchant

[Menalque]

It’s Elsa, sorting on claim is inherently a bad idea, ignore everything and anything she says mechanically and just go by play

[Menalque]

I have ausuka as hard town now, incidentally

[Menalque]

On my weekend VLA but skimmed the last two pages and okay

VOTE: elsa

[Menalque]

Annoying that deadline isn’t later

[Menalque]

Congratulations on being slightly less likely to be mafia Menalque

Thanks

Of course, this is dependent on believing enchant’s claim which I’m so-so on

[Menalque]

Massclaim is probably a good idea atp, if only because half the game already inexplicably decided to claim before EoD2

[Menalque]

massclaiming probably isn't a bad idea but i don't see the need to like, put down our votes or whatever

I am less interested right now in arguing with comus and gimli and more from hearing from skygazer, geraintm, kawaii, klick, menalque

I want to ask why the enchant claim doubt, but if we're massclaiming it makes sense to do that first before we start discussing the setup

I have a cold and my head hurts and my sinuses hurt and I don’t want to do anything that involves using my brain

I do want to murder my neighbours given how fucking loud their tv is

If I feel better later I might be around, if not then probably tomorrow

[Menalque]

massclaiming probably isn't a bad idea but i don't see the need to like, put down our votes or whatever

I am less interested right now in arguing with comus and gimli and more from hearing from skygazer, geraintm, kawaii, klick, menalque

I want to ask why the enchant claim doubt, but if we're massclaiming it makes sense to do that first before we start discussing the setup

I have a cold and my head hurts and my sinuses hurt and I don’t want to do anything that involves using my brain

I do want to murder my neighbours given how fucking loud their tv is

If I feel better later I might be around, if not then probably tomorrow

To clarify, there's a guilty on you and the longer you put it off, the worse it looks for you.

Terrible gambit bro, even if there were u really think I wouldn’t skim the last like 3 pages before posting?

[Menalque]

Anyway, I’m VT and also I think sky is scum and bussing kawaii *shrug*

[Menalque]

But otherwise, I do sympathise and hope you feel better!

Thanks, the neighbours have turned off the TV, paracetamol has kicked in, and I’m one class away from being done for Easter break so that has combined to make me feel somewhat better

[Menalque]

Eh I guess. But I've played as a Town Mason Watcher before. Just that. So enchnat not claiming modified, Ausuka says m ds is different from ds, frankly im still confused, enchant didnt claim m ds so whatever.

I'm going to have an headache after this.

Kawaii plz speak to us.

Can we get clarity on who this is? I’m assuming gimli

[Menalque]

Thank you!

In the meantime, who is scum?

[Menalque]

Idg why you trust sky’s claim klick

[Menalque]

I’m thinking scum maybe have nothing but informed

[Menalque]

My final solve is Kawaii/Ausuka/Klick.

I think Ausuka has given up, Klick is still hopeful.

How does town power work if both of them are scum?

[Menalque]

Why is that an unreasonable though?

[Menalque]

Thought*

[Menalque]

I don’t think we should rush but I’m not opposed

[Menalque]

My final solve is Kawaii/Ausuka/Klick.

I think Ausuka has given up, Klick is still hopeful.

How does town power work if both of them are scum?

Hey menalque honestly figure it out for yourself I'm tired and bored.

I am asking because I can’t figure it out for myself — I don’t see how, given all the claims, klick and ausuka can both be scum and this setup can have passed the notoriously townsided normal review process

[Menalque]

I think MG suggested it would basically just be like a named townie and I can buy that

[Menalque]

How the fuck can anyone watch this much television and not want to kill themselves? I ask myself, as the neighbours turn on the telly AGAIN

[Menalque]

@comus you really think this setup passes? Like I’m generally not a huge fan of trying to outguess the mod but I just don’t think this ever passes review

Comus: VT
Gimli: VT
geraintm: VT
Sky: Informed Detective
Enchant: Modified Doctor Shield
Menalque: VT
+4 VTs

Vs

3 mafia goon

[Menalque]

Ausuka, your role is being upgraded

[Menalque]

I think MG suggested it would basically just be like a named townie and I can buy that

I mean I agree but shrug I don't think named townie is meaningful outside open setups

pedit; ask my parents tbh

The real question is would firebringer and isis think it’s meaningful outside an open setup?

[Menalque]

I think MG suggested it would basically just be like a named townie and I can buy that

I mean I agree but shrug I don't think named townie is meaningful outside open setups

pedit; ask my parents tbh

The real question is would firebringer and isis think it’s meaningful outside an open setup?

I don't really think so, no?

So you think sky has to be town?

[Menalque]

Ausuka, your role is being upgraded

Sad u didn’t ask me what I meant by this ausuka

[Menalque]

I hate that site meta has basically become 'be right on Day 1 or Day 2 otherwise the two townies who don't care about winning will make it endgame'

Policy lims are still a thing that exist and can be used! And if towns actually started using them this would be less of a problem

[Menalque]

Ausuka, your role is being upgraded

Sad u didn’t ask me what I meant by this ausuka

I missed it

What do u mean

You are now a loud visionary double voter

[Menalque]

I have ethical issues with them
Blacklists are better than playing with someone just to vote them out at the start

Disagree but I guess that’s a separate point

I hate that site meta has basically become 'be right on Day 1 or Day 2 otherwise the two townies who don't care about winning will make it endgame'

Policy lims are still a thing that exist and can be used! And if towns actually started using them this would be less of a problem

If you believe this why weren't you trying to policy comus earlier when it wasn't the day before elo with a 1v1

Hang on, im not saying I want to policy comus here, i was talking about the problem klick is speaking about in general

[Menalque]

If we’re wrong today than tomo is Elo, yes

[Menalque]

ok so we elim kawaii

Or you, but I’m sheeping ausuka so y’know, probably kawaii

[Menalque]

Mena why are you townreading me

I think I asked yesterday but you didn't respond (tbf you were probably just busy at the time)

I saw that but yeah, had a v busy weekend and didn’t get a chance to sit down before it was night

And I just felt like when we were talking yesterday like you were actually trying to solve? + mechanically I now think you’re pretty much confirmed town as again, I can’t see this passing review if you’re not

[Menalque]

so kawaii is scum and scum is either informed and fucked up or not informed and my role is designed as a sort of gotcha during claim time

leaning towards the latter bc that would explain the lack of town power i guess

If it is the latter then I hate this design even more than I hate the average mini normal design

[Menalque]

Mena why are you townreading me

I think I asked yesterday but you didn't respond (tbf you were probably just busy at the time)

I saw that but yeah, had a v busy weekend and didn’t get a chance to sit down before it was night

And I just felt like when we were talking yesterday like you were actually trying to solve? + mechanically I now think you’re pretty much confirmed town as again, I can’t see this passing review if you’re not

The mechanical stuff I get but I'm talking about like pre massclaim?

I guess what I'm trying to get at is, what changed from "ausuka looks town but I am paranoid because she is good at scum" -> "ausuka is definitely town" because your reasoning here kind of felt like the same stuff you were saying before, if that makes sense?

I need to go to the shops before they close, if I have energy I’ll try to look later but essentially just hit the point threshold where I was willing to take the plunge on trusting you

I don’t think there was a specific post or whatever, but I was feeling generally lost and I feel like I very rarely do well as town unless I have a functional team to talk with and bounce ideas off. You and klick both basically triggered the “well, this is as good as I’m gonna feel about anyone” button in my head around the same time and I started working off that

[Menalque]

@ausuka i just looked back and yeah, it was just your general posting 90-92, felt like it was showing a clear actual thinking about the game and what was going on

[Menalque]

ive seen really good scum players do much stupider things

one time i modded a game where flavor leaf posted an entire scum game plan into a PT with his town neighbor

sometimes brains just stop working

In fairness, that was incredibly funny

My first ever large theme!

[Menalque]

My take: not impossible that kawaii is town who fucked up hard, but we would deserve to lose if we didn’t lim someone who fucked up their claim that hard (NB: given that we assume sky town for balance reasons)

[Menalque]

Just seems like one heeeeeeelllll of a coincidence for you to not realise that 2shot was a modifier….

[Menalque]

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

No

ok so we elim kawaii

so kawaii is scum and scum is either informed and fucked up or not informed and my role is designed as a sort of gotcha during claim time

leaning towards the latter bc that would explain the lack of town power i guess

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

I'm x2 shot, does that count as a modifier?

@gimli re: “kawaii had no reason to claim it pre-sky’s claim” he was asked in this sequence of posts, in massclaim, and then immediately walked back the claim

He didn’t say “oh yeah, I’m doing this because I was trying to make scum still fear me (still a relatively terrible idea unless you have a role that makes scum want to kill you, which is uh, never gonna happen when you’re literally a hider??)” he just added the “wait is 2 shot a modifier?” thing

He absolutely did fuck up by not claiming the 2shot modifier when he was asked the first time, and only claiming when he realised it guilties him in light of sky’s claim

[Menalque]

And while, yes, that fuck up is possible as town, Occam’s razor is that he is just scum who is trying to save his ass from a bad claim by adding a 2 shot modifier

[Menalque]

y

VOTE: menalque

I just checked, they were 2nd last on both the 2 wagons

Yes

[Menalque]

I think my solve rn is (kawaii/sky), gimli, gera

Which I know looks incredibly omgus-y but I think (ausuka, comus, klick) are all town and enchant is I guess town off claim

I was actually starting to doubt comus!town last night with the breakdown and the baiting and trolling, but I think the reconsideration today and trying to actually help again and think through the game solidifies him as town

Klick I’m slightly less confident on but I think also comes out of the comus interactions looking very town

Kawaii I feel fine with being scum, he hasn’t solved all game, the MG pass has expired to do anything

Gimli seems like he can be scum? I think the kawaii defense is bad but I can see how he sees a win from it — lim not!kawaii todsy and then tomorrow get comus to vote ausuka and gg

Gera is the problematic one bc I was reading him as town and the thing that bothers me is how he was very much not engaging with my actual arguments with him about why I wasn’t scum yesterday, but was engaging with a twisted version of them. I wanted to get into that more today but now I’m doubting it’s worth it from PoE

[Menalque]

If I get flipped today so be it, but for anyone who is town I’d like ausuka to be allowed to decide the flip tomorrow in elo

[Menalque]

Gimli might actually just be very good and the team is menalque/skygazer/enchant.

VOTE: menalque

I'm wishing I'm right on Ausuka/Kawaii/?. It's such an abstract little solve that's gutsy from their scumteam. But hey something has to happen and it might as well be this.

If scum is informed then 'Informed detective' and 'modified shield doctor' might be the kind of dodgy fakeclaims i'd expect not gonna lie. Probably means Ausuka dies tonight.

I suggest town hammers quick before I do an 180 and just vote Kawaii for pound ng scummy af.

Hmm maybe I am just an omgus machine lol but I hate this

Just called out me or gimli as third scum — then I point out why gimli’s defence of kawaii is bad — votes me and completely reverses stance with the justification of “maybe gimli is just really good” and “might as well be this”

I’m the one who first put doubt on the sky claim and only came round to it after ausuka/klick (both town in comus’ eyes here) convinced me that for balance it probably had to be the case — not to mention the overall solve means town is wildly underpowered

So maybe actually (kawaii, gimli, comus)? As an alternative at least

[Menalque]

That would make sense with gera actually being town if my initial read was right

[Menalque]

Nah I'm not buying that. (Misc role) (Claimed VT) (Claimed VT) Totally underpowered and frankly insane scumteam with such claims.

What Gimli said, way he thinks, talks, has me convinced

menalque/enchant/skygazer ultra viable.

Interesting thing about that team ISO: Enchant only scum most of Day 1 lole. Lone wolf indeed.

Well.

That's all folks.

If enchant and sky are scum then the setup (once again, in a notoriously townsided meta for normals) is:

2shot hider
Loud visionary
Compulsory visitor
7 vts

Vs

3 scum who are informed

That

never

passes review

[Menalque]

Menal, Klick. You two replaced in. Solve this game for us plz.

I’m trying to but everyone is too focused on their pet reads or 1v1s to actually get a functioning town going overall, let alone a townbloc

I’m probably willing to vote kokichi atp, shocked to find myself saying this but I agree with comus, the readslist was astonishingly bad

no you are not. you are all like "who can i flip that isn't me?" or "random player X, you wanna go halves with me on a miselimination?"

you ain't solving at all

i think i need to summerise for myself who i think is most likely to be scum based on what i've looked at

Melanque

if you think I'm scum then can you engage me on the why? I asked you a question before which fair enough if you missed, but why does it make me scummier to be working to establish consensus on lims?

also, it's Menalque

Sorry for spelling name wrong

i said you were most likely to be scum, not that i was sure (if i had been sure i would have voted you but i didnt, and i think i even said to another player i had an imaginary vote on them). i went through the votes, and the way and when you got onto the wagon and your reasoning just to me made you the person most likely to be scum.

i've got nothing else but actions to go on, and the result of the few night actions we've been told about. when i was going over everyone, you were the person who stood out the most.

does that make sense?

I know, I don't think I said that you were sure I was scum either. However, I'm fairly sure you're town and due to my feeling that this town is generally speaking fairly dysfunctional, I consider it higher priority than normal to try and get you to understand me/see that I'm also town but just coming at the game differently

if you're truly wedded to the idea that only actions can tell us what alignment people are this may be a lost cause, but worth a shot

I'd now like to go through some of your other posts on me

Menal, Klick. You two replaced in. Solve this game for us plz.

I’m trying to but everyone is too focused on their pet reads or 1v1s to actually get a functioning town going overall, let alone a townbloc

I’m probably willing to vote kokichi atp, shocked to find myself saying this but I agree with comus, the readslist was astonishingly bad

no you are not. you are all like "who can i flip that isn't me?" or "random player X, you wanna go halves with me on a miselimination?"

you ain't solving at all

firstly this: just because the way I solve is not the same way you solve or how you expect people to solve doesn't make it not solving.

what I mean is basically this: I am not good at spotting scum. I learned this from playing plenty of games and while occasionally getting it right, only managing to at best hit two members of a team and often after limming town who were doing things I thought were scummy.

so now my approach is simpler and something I'm stealing from an interview with Thor665 from a post I read over at mafia451 (https://forum.mafia451.com/t/thor665-ponders-mafia/1113). basically everything is scummy and nothing is scummy -- scum players do all sorts of shit and I realised that a decent number of my scum wins were because I did something town thought would be suboptimal for scum to do and therefore they mentally cleared me.

this is also why I'm somewhat indifferent about the flip -- so long as it's not someone I townread, I don't expect to necessarily be on scum, I'm just trying to get to the point where I have enough TRs I'm confident in that if I can then lim all the remaining players it should get all the scum even if some town are limmed along the way

elsa, strange times lead to strange bedfellows... how would you feel about supporting an enchant lim today?

i...i have no words. reading your posts in order im just flabbergasted

hence this -- I'm leaning away from limming Elsa. I don't exactly want to get into why, and I don't feel strongly Elsa is town so I wouldn't cry about it, but I need votes to lim people who aren't in my town list (namely, you, gimli, comus) and Elsa has a vote. my feelings on Elsa being potential scum doesn't preclude me from asking for her support to lim someone else I think could be scum

the fundamental question is always: who can I get the votes on?

regardless of if you're town or scum. I think I can get the votes on you and that you have a decent chance of flipping scum

what??
this reads awful.
this reads like what scum would be saying in their scum chat - yet you said it all out loud???

and I mean... this is just true? it does me absolutely zero good to sit there yelling about how someone is scum if there clearly isn't enough support for limming them within thread and my attempts to persuade people about it aren't working.

it's much more sensible to consider who I think is limmable on a given day and then try to steer it towards people I don't think are town

how would you feel about voting enchant with me, klick?

your last few posts aren't great. giving someone a pass because of a dead person's read.
putting out vague feelers with another player to start a wagon.
all too back seat.

lastly -- and I hope now the back seat-ness and the vague feelers thing are explained -- why would I not give a pass for a dead player's read? fmpov I know that I can trust MG to have been sincere because she's flipped and she said she was incredibly confident that kawaii was town. I may not like that, but I trust MG as a player in general and I don't think my perceptions of the game are necessarily right. if I feel like 50% that kawaii is scum, for instance, and MG tells me that she's 90% on kawaii town and I KNOW that MG is town... why not trust the person who feels more confident?

firstly this: just because the way I solve is not the same way you solve or how you expect people to solve doesn't make it not solving.

but i dont think it is solving. trying to get anyone eliminated, begging others to join you - that isn't solving!

@kawaii

[Menalque]

VOTE: menalque

menalque/sky/enchant it is then. Screw time such a useless concept someone just hammer already.

Sorry Gimli bae I should have sheeped you today instead of growing all para <3

This is so insanely wolfy hahhaa

[Menalque]

Literally trying to speed lim me on a complete reversal based on a nothing case from the other person you allegedly thought was final scum while completely ignoring the mechanics of the setup to justify your vote and refusing to engage on the fact that you’re completely ignoring the mechanics

[Menalque]

I mean kudos for pulling the wool over my eyes for so long I guess but I’m sure as I have ever been that you’re scum from how you played the last page and a half

[Menalque]

Nah I'm not buying that. (Misc role) (Claimed VT) (Claimed VT) Totally underpowered and frankly insane scumteam with such claims.

What Gimli said, way he thinks, talks, has me convinced

menalque/enchant/skygazer ultra viable.

Interesting thing about that team ISO: Enchant only scum most of Day 1 lole. Lone wolf indeed.

Well.

That's all folks.

If enchant and sky are scum then the setup (once again, in a notoriously townsided meta for normals) is:

2shot hider
Loud visionary
Compulsory visitor
7 vts

Vs

3 scum who are informed

That

never

passes review

Still no answer for this huh

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

No

ok so we elim kawaii

so kawaii is scum and scum is either informed and fucked up or not informed and my role is designed as a sort of gotcha during claim time

leaning towards the latter bc that would explain the lack of town power i guess

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

I'm x2 shot, does that count as a modifier?

@gimli re: “kawaii had no reason to claim it pre-sky’s claim” he was asked in this sequence of posts, in massclaim, and then immediately walked back the claim

He didn’t say “oh yeah, I’m doing this because I was trying to make scum still fear me (still a relatively terrible idea unless you have a role that makes scum want to kill you, which is uh, never gonna happen when you’re literally a hider??)” he just added the “wait is 2 shot a modifier?” thing

He absolutely did fuck up by not claiming the 2shot modifier when he was asked the first time, and only claiming when he realised it guilties him in light of sky’s claim

@gimli

[Menalque]

kawaii is obvscum

Probably yes, but I think there is a not 0% chance of it being (gimli, comus, gera) where the idea is to pivot off kawaii today in order to get the win by limming him tomorrow

[Menalque]

So you think ausuka/klick are town then gimli?

[Menalque]

If scum are informed that all roles have 2 modifiers then they’d have known kokichi wasn’t vig because he claimed it vanilla

[Menalque]

Oh shit that’s actually a really strong indicator for sky being town lol

[Menalque]

So you think ausuka/klick are town then gimli?

yes I'm agreeing with your townreads rn

Then take it up with them if you think I’m scum, ausuka and to a lesser degree klick are the reason why I think the setup has to be that enchant/sky are both town

[Menalque]

I think scum kills make perfect sense if they believe kokichi was vig, if not then I have no idea why they killed him

But MG was always a solid kill

[Menalque]

this is only unbalanced if enchant is scum. if enchant is town, skygazer can be scum and there isn't a balancing problem with the game.

Are you trying to say that doc + 2-shot hider + loud visionary + compulsive visitor vs scum informed is like, even in the ballpark of setup balance. Am I missing something here

Thank u

[Menalque]

magical girl was the only player making sense d1

No, MG is just a scary name player who has probably the strongest rep of anyone in the PL

[Menalque]

this is only unbalanced if enchant is scum. if enchant is town, skygazer can be scum and there isn't a balancing problem with the game.

Are you trying to say that doc + 2-shot hider + loud visionary + compulsive visitor vs scum informed is like, even in the ballpark of setup balance. Am I missing something here

Enchant is scum. Sky informed, something powerful I bet. Menalaque goon. Enchant? No idea. Can actually be goon.

Still literally no defence whatsoever for how the setup can make sense with the team you’re proposing

[Menalque]

If kawaii flips scum at any point and I'm dead pls turbolim gimli.

Received

Do you want to flip kawaii today or someone else?

[Menalque]

magical girl was the only player making sense d1

No, MG is just a scary name player who has probably the strongest rep of anyone in the PL

okay fine I never played with the dude, I'm saying why scum would kill him d1 and has nothing to do with his claim, that's all I'm saying don't care for anyone's rep.

Okay we agree that MG was killed for non-claim reasons then

[Menalque]

Town kp is normally anti town if anything

Detective is an incredibly weak investigative

Doctor has the potential to kill self given the shield modifier

[Menalque]

with one scum left the detective will simply do hard greens and reds, how is that reasonable

In a 13p game where 2 scum have been limmed and they’ve failed to kill either the doc or the invest that seems pretty fair that the game is locked up

[Menalque]

I am leaning towards kawaii but I'm not married to that

I think the basic principle I have with the claim is
1) yes, his explanation is fairly reasonable, I don't really think the execution is that scummy
2) the fact he chose to hide that information about his role until it became known that he wasn't just a hider increases the probability that he is scum

It's the same reason why if a gunsmith claims a guilty on someone and they claim like, idk, vanilla cop or something, it's understandable that they didn't claim before hand but the chances of them being scum is still higher

Well I’m sheeping you on whoever but I think comus should be given serious consideration for the lim today too

[Menalque]

I now see what you were talking about on D2, I just couldn’t until it was directed at me

Also fulllll disclosure I was kinda of skimming over a lot of his posts because I’d town binned him for the arrogance attitude >.>

[Menalque]

Yes, I think gimli and comus are both scum, and this is probably an attempt to save kawaii but equally I’m a bit worried because while the logic could be that if they can get him through today they can get the win tomorrow it’s v high risk high reward because it ties the 3 of them together very strongly

[Menalque]

That’s why I’d be happier with doing comus or gimli today but again, I’m just gonna sheep you

[Menalque]

wow 'utility out of their roles'

straight up checks
straight up avoiding scum kill

and scum has what, kawaii as a checker WHO CAN GET FUCKED BY AUSUKA'S VISIONARY

come onnn ausuka come the fk on

You’re not accounting at all for how weak detective is nor for the fact that doc is weaker given the shield part and dying if they target scum by accident

[Menalque]

It is an fb and Isis review so maybe

[Menalque]

I don’t see how I can be scum here given what comus and gimli are doing (if you think they’re scum) but I can see how if you’re not sure about that I guess I could be

[Menalque]

Seems like a pretty high risk low reward play for me to just say “I will vote whoever you vote for” if I’m scum tho

[Menalque]

That’s cool, lmk when you want to vote

Wish klick was here

[Menalque]

Seems like a pretty high risk low reward play for me to just say “I will vote whoever you vote for” if I’m scum tho

I mean it is high risk but I can also see the reward side of it. I'm not blind to the fact that my reads are not perfect and there is a chance of my current push being wrong and so I'm not going to, like, anti associative clear you. Sorry.

I am going to go back to writing my essay for now but will be back later

Hey, I didn’t say no reward for scum!me, I just think there would be better options for me than going 100% on pocketing you

I don’t mind you not clearing me, it’s fairly immaterial so long as you keep talking to me and listening throughout rest of day. Even if I get flipped then hopefully it will give you the confidence to force through your reads tomorrow bc I think they’re pretty on point

I’m also bouncing if you’re off, might be back later but might be getting dinner with a homie so… we’ll see

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Ausuka I know it’s vaguely hypocritical of me to say this to you given earlier discussion re:comus but I’m not gonna be posting as much or here as much as gimli but I still ask you to not mistake quantity for content

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If you really think the way I’ve approached the game is more indicative of me being scum than comus I’m okay with that but please do not mistake gimli being here and talking a lot for him being town nor me being somewhat taciturn and absent for me being scum

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Where I said comus I meant to say comus/gimli/scum

I’m quite high

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I am deeply confused by how you see gimli as town here @klick

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I am deeply confused by how you see gimli as town here @klick

Is there anything in particular about how I've described the read before that you disagree with or don't understand? Or is it just a general 'I don't understand how you could have a Gimli townread in this game period'?

I don’t understand how you can have gimli anywhere in the region of town let alone locktown when (1) he basically did nothing all game (2) only came out of nowhere to try and do things when kawaii was getting pushed (3) just fooled you in a scumgsme of his (4) even in his defense of kawaii isn’t making a ton of sense but I suppose I’ll give you point 4 given that you are also somehow on kawaii being more likely town than scum

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menalque's blatant rolefishing

How is this not openwolfing lol

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I come back to this game time and again and every time I am disappointed by how people seem to read confidence as town

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sky/mena/kawaii would be hilarious and also does kind of seem like something sky and mena would do. idk if kawaii would agree to it though

Comus would also have to be like a super duper combined cop doctor vigilante

Literally what upside is there to revealing the sky info and having her claim an invest to bus kawaii in that scenario?

Why not just have kawaii not fuck his claim up and have sky claim something that wouldn’t need to be explained away as why did she not die come elo, and have them both bus me if they needed cred

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Mena I want to talk to u about the comus/gimli thing

I feel like comus doing the thing where he's like, maybe gimli is really good, and jumps over to gimli's way of seeing things doesn't feel very s/s? I'd kinda like elaboration for why you think it is. I mean, I don't understand comus's thought processes for the most part anyway, but he is scum it feels like he's probably just buddying up to gimli while talking about how great gimli is at the game and stuff.

Let me give you an alternative scenario which is comus was yawing and hawing about his super special plan while kawaii was about to die and how pocketing me fitted into it and then gimli did the good scum thing of telling him “no, just vote X” where X happens to be me bc they can sort it out tomorrow and the important thing is to just avoid scum flipping today

I think that he felt like he had to make up some sort of justification for why he was suddenly sheeping gimli (especially when, as I’ve pointed out time and again, his model of the setup makes absolutely 0 sense for the scum team he was posting while trying to make said switch which is why I don’t believe him at all)

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Anyway VOTE: kawaii

Not the vote I really wanted but the best that’s around

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maybe swap klick for gimli actually bc i feel like scum would be bussing/distancing from kawaii here (what gimli is doing) rather than hard defending like klick

I felt like klick was more town earlier and still do think he’s more town than gimli/comus but I am mildly concerned it’s like klick/gimli/comus

The thing that bothers me about klick is that I can’t understand how he is seeing the game like this at all and the way he’s seeing it seems to be playing directly to scum interests which makes me suspicious

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Oh I thought I responded to that one first

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Wait yeah i literally did

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I don't read Comus as town for confidence

It was more of a general complaint and not specifically about comus

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I think I’m starting from the beginning and drawing the most reasonable conclusion based on the scenario? As in, yes, I think kawaii could be town and maybe he just misunderstood his role and mis claimed it when asked about modifiers and that’s awfully bad luck but I think it’s more likely he’s just scum

I think gimli could look at that and it could be the thing that spurs him out of a lethargy of posting not much more than “carry me” or “solve the game pls” for the first two days and his need to save what he sees as town!kawaii is what makes him start engaging, but I think it’s much more likely that he comes out swinging to save a buddy so that there are still no scum flips and the game is as confused as possible going into 7p elo

I think it’s possible comus genuinely is batshit insane enough to believe that sky/enchant/me is a real setup possibility and he just lied about being VT in massclaim because he’s that arrogant to think that he can get away with changing claim afterwards without any crumbs or anything in his playing looking like a PR’s play, but I think it’s a lot more likely that he doesn’t believe that at all (which is why he was completely unwilling to engage on that point and why I think he’s made up his PR after the fact to try and justify it) and he was told by his buddies to just fucking vote me by any means necessary

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I disagree with premise (1) that Gimli has been doing nothing btw

I have essentially zero memory of gimli doing anything approaching solving the first two days, just shit fighting with ausuka who, if I’m correct, we both now agree is town?

And even if you want to point at soemthing he did do in the first two days, I still find it genuinely baffling that you can look at his posts and find them more indicative of someone trying to solve the game and figure out what to do and wtf is going on compared to when you look at mine, especially given your recent actually pretty good track record of recognising me when town and the fact that you were *literally saying that about halfway through D2*

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Idk maybe you’re just scum and that’s the detail I’m missing here and this is a pointless conversation

Maybe I’m just wildly out of sync in terms of self-perception of what I’ve done vs outside perception, mafia is a hard game after all

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A lot of the takes in this game have felt like a bizarre fever dream and that’s been the case more or less since D1

Even the ones I now agree with seemed like they were massively off to me at the time

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Anyway I stupidly stayed up all night playing stardew valley (no idea why I’m dumb) so I think I’m going to try and sleep now and maybe salvage my Sunday a bit

I might be on later not sure but maybe not until Monday

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I do feel like mena is more likely scum than sky somehow, even though I agree her claim is very suspicious

but I think we're in something like

mena
gera?
one of sky/enchant

I'll trust whatever gut read I had that kawa is nearly always town with his recent posting

I still think enchant has very problematic things if mena flips scum here for obvious reasons

is this really what you guys wanna lose to? Like oof

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Informed + vanilla= informed town/informed mafia

Informed + pr = pr with modifier.

I still think this can be distance theatre between enchant and sky. The early mena push on enchant, I also believe to be distance theatre. If I die and enchant is alive tommorow it's a pretty simple deduction to make. But scum have to kill me ; )

Monke time

Like you wanna lose to that and

this??

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This game needs to go down in the annals of how a town should not play mafia and be used as learning material for new players on how not to play

I say that even if I’m the one with egg all over my face because this has been a

spectacularly

dysfunctional game since Day 1 lmao

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Idk I just think that both gimli and comus are blatantly open wolfing and they’re just being allowed to both get away with it and it’s wild to me that apparently nobody is sharing that perception

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my first instinct to mena's latests posts is that I think we should flip him but lets see

Gimli you’ve been trying to get me flipped for the entire day pretty much, you’re laying it on a bit thick with “my reaction to mena’s latest posts…” no, you’re just reiterating the same line you’d be taking regardless of what I said because you’ve decided I’m the slot that needs to be limmed today for you to hit wincon

Which like, fair, that’s how I used to like to play scum when I had the energy and the inclination for it but it’s wild that nobody other than me is calling it out lmao

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Incredibly obviously defending kawaii after kawaii fucked up his claim and trying to push the lim elsewhere to keep scum from flipping today

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It is a bold play but not a play that can exactly be done stealthily, hence, open wolfing

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Because why

It seems pretty likely for town to be doing it given that I’m town and I’m doing it so

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Me loudly pointing out that the two loudest voices pushing for me to die have not a leg to stand on between them? Yes, absolutely not town behaviour when you’re being pushed the day prior to elo, you’re right