Mini Normal 2300: THIS GAME HAS A VIG [game over]

[bristep123]

Invisibility’s analysis of Black’s genuineness feels odd and ironically not from a genuine place either.

Also evening! hope you’re all well.

[bristep123]

And I’m not even drunj

Are you sure you aren’t drunj?

[bristep123]

Invisibility’s analysis of Black’s genuineness feels odd and ironically not from a genuine place either.

how come?

Blacks posts are early and not serious, feels like you may be sewing seeds picking at something which is actually nothing.

[bristep123]

Mala does read differently from the last game we played together - they were town then but it’s the only game I’ve played to conclusion in a long time. Not sure yet if they’re playing differently enough to convince me this is definitely Mala on the opposite side this time.

[bristep123]

Holy cow folks, 4 times I tried to post that! This game is moving fast.

Also wtf was that fast e-1. Let’s not end the day in the first 10 hours please.

[bristep123]

Holy cow folks, 4 times I tried to post that! This game is moving fast.

Also wtf was that fast e-1. Let’s not end the day in the first 10 hours please.

Why not? Better than 10 days time....

So the only options are 10 hours in or 10 days time? Odd reply.

[bristep123]

Mala does read differently from the last game we played together - they were town then but it’s the only game I’ve played to conclusion in a long time. Not sure yet if they’re playing differently enough to convince me this is definitely Mala on the opposite side this time.

is there something in particular that you think is different? I know you're not super convinced but I'd still like to hear

More content to their posts so far, and a different tone - could be because of the wagon though. Definitely not enough for me to be on board with nk’s summary.

[bristep123]

y'know what I don't like Bris. Their posts are either not moving the game forward or are just reiterating a point stated by someone else but with less confidence.

VOTE: Bristep

That seems to be standard, game 2296 if you want to compare/contrast.

Bris what do you think NK's vote on Mala and their justification for doing so says about NK?

It’s not great content, but I do wonder if scum would drop a vote to take to e-1 then only explain some time after with an unquantified meta explanation. But, I don’t see Mala flinging dirt all over, yes they’re not absolutely the same as the last game we played but not enough for NKs statement to ring true for me. I’d like more expansion from nk with some more explanation to back up their read.

[bristep123]

NK right now, until we get more from them. Geraint with the fake hammer I do not like, plus his reaction to my questioning the speed of the wagon on Mala.

Also not sure why the notion of mass claiming is being put out there, feels like having the prs claimed and out there benefits scum more than town.

[bristep123]

I’m going to bed, and it’s my daughter’s birthday tomorrow so I won’t be super active but I’ll be around.

[bristep123]

y'know what I don't like Bris. Their posts are either not moving the game forward or are just reiterating a point stated by someone else but with less confidence.

VOTE: Bristep

I don't like Invisible posts.

Complaining about not moving the game forward when people aren't even all present is just....fake outrage. Saying they are doing it with less confidence....well by definition there is a 50% of anyone doing that.

Like, if you want to neg someone just do it better.

Naughty point for Invisibile

Holy cow folks, 4 times I tried to post that! This game is moving fast.

Also wtf was that fast e-1. Let’s not end the day in the first 10 hours please.

Why not? Better than 10 days time....

So the only options are 10 hours in or 10 days time? Odd reply.

I clearly used the number 10 twice as repition, a standard technique when making points in any argument.

Finding my reply odd...like just get over yourself. Are you just trying hard to find something wrong with what I say for the sheer pointlessness of it, just so you can scum read me later.

Naughty point for you Bristep.

In fact VOTE: bristep

Hmm, bit of an overreaction to be honest and the underlying aggression I hope isn’t an honest reaction. Also aren’t you doing exactly what you accuse me of with your ‘naughty points’? Bit hypocritical, gives you a naughty point in return.

I didn’t like your reply, I say let’s not elim in 10 hours and you respond with a ridiculously long single alternative (repetition wasn’t the issue I assure you), like that was the intention of my post. It smacks of binary arguing and only scum deal in absolutes.

Definitely keeping my eye on you.

[bristep123]

[quote=bristep123 post_id=13760861
My post was aggressive? That wasn't aggressive, I assure you.

And you don't understand the laws of naughty points. You cannot give them back like that, once you have been awarded one you cannot hand one back. In fact, it bounces back and you now have 2.
Look, I don't make the rules, I'm just telling you how it is.

Telling me to get over myself I took as underlying aggression.

[bristep123]

Catching up after 36 hours or so of busy-ness. I agree with those saying I’ve been non committal or wishy washy, that’s me I’m afraid especially early game. Still getting back into the swing of it all.

I can get onboard a Venmar wagon, I like Blacks summer and Venmar’s content is super light. The promised thoughts and opinions never came, instead votes on vibes. I tend to go with gut and vibes early on as well but I won’t promise opinions and thoughts beforehand.

[bristep123]

Forgot to actually do this on the last post.

VOTE: Venmar

[bristep123]

Man everyone who thinks I'm scum is either scum or dumb

"Townreading Gera was objectively and factually WRONG!!! YOU CANT DO THAT"

Like are you fr right now jesus christ

I was swaying on Venmar given the wagon and their frustration to the omgus cases, but then this happened and I’m comfortable again. It’s such a weird swingy reaction to NK and such a reduction to the point that it feels fake. Gives me an indication that the frustration is fake, at least in terms of the motivation behind it. Whether it’s scum frustration at being at e-1 or scum pretending to be frustrated as a defence, I’m happy with my vote.

[bristep123]

Today escalated quickly! I’m not sold on NK, the quick hammer coupled with popping in only to vote for the wagon he hopped off to hammer Umlaut despite the frowning wagon in themself is hella ballsy from a scum player. Feels like an easy target for scum, so much so that they probably don’t feel the need to be early at hopping on the wagon.

Other thoughts - Black gets mentioned but building the Venmar wagon only to jump off at e-1 only makes sense if they’re both scum, and even then I don’t think scum would deliberately build that wagon just to solid town themselves as what would then only be the sole scum left after 1 day.

I think patchwork could be playing a game of confusion, they are all over the place and multiple short burst posts make it hard to get a read. Not sold yet.

Venmar #582 and Greeting #585 pings my radar, Ven speculates that T3’s reads pre-death got him killed then immediately Greeting focused on the Venmar wagon at end of d1, speculating that NK and I spread our votes despite both being on Venmar until NK hammered Umlaut. It’s stretchy logic and potentially distraction to set up me as the d3 miselim no matter how nk flips. It’s definitely very interesting given the fact that greeting was on T3’s list and this being highlighted immediately before greetings post.

On d2 vibes greeting is my lead read right now.

VOTE: greeting

[bristep123]

like iirc no one scumreads me as of right now
anyways bri i have a question for you. what's your read on mala, and why?

Null, leaning town because they were similar in the last game we played - they were town then.

The t3 read list applies to them as well but it was the combination of ven's post and greetings reply which pinged me rather than just gen’s post in isolation. T3’s reads in isolation i can’t wholly get behind given our last game when he vigged town players 3 nights in a row.

[bristep123]

Venmar #582 and Greeting #585 pings my radar, Ven speculates that T3’s reads pre-death got him killed then immediately Greeting focused on the Venmar wagon at end of d1, speculating that NK and I spread our votes despite both being on Venmar until NK hammered Umlaut. It’s stretchy logic and potentially distraction to set up me as the d3 miselim no matter how nk flips. It’s definitely very interesting given the fact that greeting was on T3’s list and this being highlighted immediately before greetings post.

I struggle to see how my post is connected to what Greeting went on to say based off of your explanation here, tbh. I can't tell if you're scumreading us by association or for doing two different scummy things separately?

Besides, I have three issues with your logic if you

are

accusing me of working or coordinating with Greeting, one is that I'm also sus of Greeting and I immediately attacked Greeting after his post because I disagree with his VCA. Two, you were at the bottom of my list and I didn't focus on you much, I singled out Greeting and Mala so saying you're being set up as a D3 miselim is incorrect with regards to me, and three, you seem to be hinting that Greeting and I coordinated our posts which I imagine would require daytalk, and as far as I'm concerned we have no ways of knowing if that's a thing..?

You’ve misread me I’m afraid, I wasn’t speculating that you and greeting were a scum team. I said greeting seemed to react to your post, not coordinate with it.

[bristep123]

The t3 read list applies to them as well but it was the combination of ven's post and greetings reply which pinged me rather than just gen’s post in isolation. T3’s reads in isolation i can’t wholly get behind given our last game when he vigged town players 3 nights in a row.

Though you can understand my confusion since in posts like this you emphasize that it's the combination of our posts that pinged you rather than either one in isolation so I'd like you to explain why they're scummy together rather than just by themselves if you don't think we're a scumteam?

So I’m not referring to your post as scummy. You speculated that greeting and mala could be scummy based on T3’s list, I’ve clarified here that the reason why I have got a ping from greeting was due to his reaction to your post not because you pinged him in yours - otherwise it would be inconsistent for me to sus him and not mala.

[bristep123]

Maybe badly worded in my part. The posts as a pair pinged my radar towards greeting because of their reaction to your post. The posts in isolation did not both ping my radar separately.

[bristep123]

I had a look at not known's posts.

Boy, their day 1 votes are bad.
And I just cannot see them as scum because they are that bad.

But their day 2....not much better.

I don't want to vote them though.

I realise the above makes no sense

This is my mindset too, it’s such bad voting that it just doesn’t seem to be something scum would do.

Now with the replacement does this mean they were murky because of irl busy-ness or have they asked to be replaced because they got themselves into a bad place and lost interest. I can already feel myself wifoming into a spiral on that one.

[bristep123]

what about the NK makes you suspect Greeting? Also do you mean that the NK makes you suspect Mala also

echoign venmar's night kill analysis: i think the t3 kill was done to either silence him (his top scumreads were greeting and mala) or to frame his scumreads (greeting and mala). at the moment i think it could be either, but i think the former is more likely. mostly because other players like bri also had scumreads on, say, greeting (correct me if i'm wrong, memory is fuzzy) and they weren't the subject of the nk.
man idk how to explain this
but it's like
t3 only
everyone else who scumread them wasn't (e.g me with my null-scum read on mala that hasn't gotten better, all the other ppl who scumread greeting)
and i think iut's because t3 wasn't really that voted on? like they were towny in my eyes and they were the only one who couldn't be eliminated by a hang in my eyes i jus tdon't think it wouldn't go through

Why would I kill someone who was in my limpool and, on top of that, suspected me the most out of all players?

Hot take, the entire scum team is in this pool of players: {

Umlaut

,

T3

,

Not Known 15

and

bristep123

}.

The rest all give varying degrees of town vibes.

Hot take, killing t3 would allow you to make this exact argument. That’s a reason to kill him.

[bristep123]

VOTE: patchwork

I still like greeting but patchwork is worth a wagon as well. In addition to my feelings earlier I’m also not happy about the votes onto existing wagons with no real justification. Promised a case on umlaut but that never came, hopped onto NK maybe to deflect from them, and then onto greeting on the back of my vote.

[bristep123]

Speculation on my part. I’m going on vibes and I don’t like theirs.

Black you won’t need a deep dive on mine, it won’t take you long at all. I’ll admit I’ve been low content, combination of busy home/work period and relative inexperience.

Invis on your last point - patchwork isn’t voting greeting they voted nk/enchant which is what I referred to.

[bristep123]

Sorry,they were voting for nk before the replace in.

[bristep123]

Tf is it with this game and personal insults? Patch You promised a case on umlaut, 2 days later you got reminded of that and it was a full 12 hours later before the hammer during which time you posted twice not mentioning anything about umlaut. I’d feel better about you if you’d said there wasn’t enough time because you were busy after forgetting but you and invis both pushing the idea that the hammer was right after the reminder is misrep.

[bristep123]

Just seems really tetchy, it’s not just this game, all 3 games I’ve played since logging back in there’s an undercurrent.

[bristep123]

No need, it’s just a game after all.

[bristep123]

No, you’re good. You’ve been the target of it, but not the instigator that I can remember.

On the subject of the misrep, both patch and you said that the case didn’t come because of the quick hammer but it was 12 or so hours from prod to hammer and patch was active during that time, not a mention of any sort of evidence towards umlaut so I can’t accept that there wasn’t any time to at least do something.

Also I get that you’re trying to read me but you’re also voting patch while questioning my reasons for doing the same.

Also Black - you mentioned me wagon hopping. I’ve voted 3 times this game, day 1 I voted Venmar and stayed there. Day 2 I voted greeting when there was no wagon there, and then voted patch to support the slot pressure you and invis started. Saved you a 5 minute iso read, no hopping here.

[bristep123]

Black weren’t you accusing me of wagon hopping earlier?

VOTE: greeting I prefer this wagon, NK is purely based off the thirst to hammer d1. If I didn’t have a feeling about anyone else I’d support their wagon to avoid the wifom about NK hurting us later on (if Enchant isn’t scum) but I feel stronger about greeting right now.

[bristep123]

Aye I did see that, was more a reference to your hop onto Enchant.

[bristep123]

Yes please. The energy has gone out of this day, greeting is the right lim.

[bristep123]

Anyway, yeah I was town. Please kill

Enchant

and

bristep123

, if you read their ISOs you will find that they contributed very little whatsoever.

That’s normal for me, I’m not a noisy player at all

[bristep123]

If only we’d had a clue!

[bristep123]

Both of your opening posts this day is scummy AF.

but good job on whoever killed patch
thats not someone i would have pegged for scum bc i was townreading up until he went a bit inactive

You coming out strong now your buddy is dead? Got to change tactic perhaps?

[bristep123]

I am locking Enchant as town for now because two lolhammers in a row plus the way patch tried to set that slot up as the next lim two days running. Black being the night kill actually helps because I would have strongly suspected a patch/black team and that removes that as a distraction.

[bristep123]

VOTE: gera

I could get behind this, Gera made a point of making sure everyone knew they weren’t voting Umlaut or Greeting but did nothing to push an alternate wagon.

[bristep123]

Having played 2 games in a row where Enchant replaced in as scum I can’t see them lol hammering after their slot did the same the day before. Could be a gambit but it’s hella risky.

[bristep123]

This also made me realize Patch frequently referred to Bris as just "Bri" which makes it hard to ISO fully.

Tbf it’s bri-step not bris-tep so they’re not wrong with that.

[bristep123]

I mean have we got nothing else to go on that everyone is relying on vca?

Invis I’ll save you some bother, I shot patch.

VOTE: Gera that defence would be stronger if you hadn’t made the exact same early “I am panicky if I’m scum” claim in another recent game where you were actually scum.

[bristep123]

Also am I crazy to assume that the natural assumption if patch says “one on one off” with the Venmar wagon is that it

wouldn’t

be the case because SCUM LIE? Just like they said they thought t3 was killed to frame greeting or mala.

[bristep123]

I never was happy with patch, the first post ‘slipping’ their role locked them into having to play as a bit ditsy, any time they came under scrutiny they started apologising for their play or content, and all the speculation was vague or they would say ‘maybe i dunno’ and not fully commit. I think in the of the reveal I assume they were trying to mislead us with their wagon analysis - setting up strings to tug on later.

It’s definitely

v

ery

i

nteresting

g

iven the fact that greeting was on T3’s list and this being highlighted immediately before greetings post.

Just for disclosure I did a crappy crumb as well, just for fun.

[bristep123]

That vote count for NK ignores the fact that it was previously at e-1 and Patch voted for NK in their first post of day 2, the mala vote was a switch later on the back of Black taking the wagon away from e-1 and Venmar pitching a mala wagon.

[bristep123]

imo i think there's probably one scum one off, the venmar wagon built way too quickly and i dont' like how nk hammered before i could even start my case on umlaut.
sigh. from now on can we agree to announce intent to hammer when someone's at e-1?

this suggests there was one scum on the Venmar wagon D1 as it was building cuz I think Patch said this cuz they knew it. This implicates Gera, Bristep, and Enchant, but I think Bristep is the most likely scum in this situation. I doubt Enchant is scum here. Gera switched to me EOD so I think that makes them less likely to be scum here since I think it would've been better for scum!Gera to chill on the opposing wagon and allow either to get limmed

VC 1.13

Venmar

(4): Black, bristep123, Umlaut, T3

Greeting

(1): Not Known 15

Umlaut

(1): Greeting

Black

(1): Venmar

Not Known 15

(1): Invisibility

Not Voting

(3): patchwork, Malakittens, geraintm

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to accidentally disassemble a player. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-05-09 12:20:00).

in this vc the only unknown on Venmar's wagon is Bristep. This is by no means conclusive since other people moved their on and off the wagon but it definitely makes me raise an eyebrow (which I can't actually do) if Patch was letting something slip when they said the Venmar wagon built too quickly. Bristep was also the only unknown on the Venmar EOD wagon D1.

VOTE: Bristep

this theory doesn't account for the possibility of scum!Venmar but like, I don't think that's the case here? I'll definitely have to reevaluate Venmar

I still don’t like this, taking the stance that patch was telling the truth without really questioning it given they were scum - starting a wagon on me (who greeting declared as likely scum in his last moments) whilst pocketing enchant and gera - it’s not sitting right with me. Need to do some more reading of their ISO.

[bristep123]

I still don’t like this, taking the stance that patch was telling the truth without really questioning it given they were scum

you say that like I said Patch's words were gospel lol. Maybe I explained my thought process for why I thought they were telling the truth poorly in my post but I had reasons!

I didn’t say you took it as gospel, I said you didn’t really question it, the ‘thought process’ could absolutely be read as lip service that gives the impression that you gave it careful consideration. It still pings my radar, but I’ve yet to have a proper study of your iso yet.

That vote count for NK ignores the fact that it was previously at e-1 and Patch voted for NK in their first post of day 2, the mala vote was a switch later on the back of Black taking the wagon away from e-1 and Venmar pitching a mala wagon.

is this in response to my quoting VC 2.03?

Yes.

[bristep123]

Keep us posted on your study of my iso lol

I’ve read it, I think you’re fine, d2 focus on patch looks like more than just distancing and you did a lot of attempts to game solve d1 and d2. You have looked scummy today though because you’ve done nothing to try and solve aside from the initial case on me and I don’t overly like your reaction to it.

[bristep123]

VOTE: geraintm

see ya

I’d ask for more explanation but I know that won’t happen.

Gera that is e1, I can’t remember if you’ve claimed already but please do.

[bristep123]

I think if Enchant was town, Patch would've likely focused on trying to elim them harder but honestly it looks like Patch shaded Enchant pretty hard after both hammers but after the first hammer, didn't really push Enchant much and left the wagon fairly early.

fair but people still talked about Enchant relatively little so I still feel okay with considering him town. Patchwork might've thought Enchant was ez lim and then he wasn't and they couldn't figure out anything to say about him. Patch seemed to have difficulty saying stuff about other players that did more like, stuff, so I dunno how much Patch saying less about Enchant invalidates the TR

This post doesn't make sense to me tbh. Enchant's slot is independently scummy for two consecutively terrible hammers that idk why we've given them a pass for. Patch tried to set-up an NK15/Enchant wagon two elims in a row, but never actually pushed or cased it. At best, this is NAI behaviour because Patch had trouble casing or talking about many players and Enchant is still scum independently, at worst, it's scummy behaviour because it looks like Patch distancing from !scumEnchant.

You still didn't answer why they are terrible.

Also forgetting that Patch tried to set up the d3 wagon on enchant as d2 was ending (after hammer but before lockdown) and didn’t get to push it on d3 because I killed them. They didn’t need to case nk hard on d2 because it went to e-1 almost instantly before Black jumped off, patch then jumped off as it lost steam to sheep Mala. Patch’s intentions towards Enchant were clear to me after the 2nd hammer and that’s what sealed their fate re the shot that night.