Mini Normal 2306: Game Over

[Alisae]

The meta is what beats the meta

[Alisae]

We all gotta start from somewhere right?

[Alisae]

I am convinced

[Alisae]

come @ me bro

[Alisae]

you have a very pretty pfp!

[Alisae]

@Hu Tao

what is your preferred alignment?

[Alisae]

Anyone around who wants to talk meta?

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:
I wanna talk to FL about something actually, I think FL is probably good to talk Meta w/.

[Alisae]

@Hu Tao

what is your preferred alignment?

I don't care whichever I get. I've played mafia before on other sites. If you're implying my inactivity is because I'm nervous as scum, then you're mistaken. I'm just a bit busy on weekdays at times because of work.

Ur activity is not what stands out to me.

[Alisae]

I can second from experience that I think Hu Tao is an experienced Mafia player even if relatively new to Mafiascum.

That being said, i don’t think I’d consider them that new to this site anymore.

But I would love to be scum with Hu Tao eventually or find scum with Hu Tao as town/town.

So, I did a brief skim of their meta, and my general impression of them is they're more likely to be detached from the gamestate as mafia > town. I kind of want to say they're in their wolf meta right now based on a brief meta check? Idunno can u like verify this.

[Alisae]

I can second from experience that I think Hu Tao is an experienced Mafia player even if relatively new to Mafiascum.

That being said, i don’t think I’d consider them that new to this site anymore.

But I would love to be scum with Hu Tao eventually or find scum with Hu Tao as town/town.

So, I did a brief skim of their meta, and my general impression of them is they're more likely to be detached from the gamestate as mafia > town. I kind of want to say they're in their wolf meta right now based on a brief meta check? Idunno can u like verify this.

It’s possible this is true, and if I am remembering correctly, this is what I remember from the games I had with them.

Whether or not this fits this game at the present is not something I’m capable of discerning fully atm.


@Hu Tao - The game I misfaded Andante, were you town or scum, I forget? I feel like I have two games with you, one scum, one town, and I think you were town there?

viewtopic.php?t=90861 - wolf game
viewtopic.php?t=90681 - The game you are referencing (town game)

[Alisae]

Votecount 1.8

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to hammer

votes

Takutai (5):

NorwegianboyEE, Saukura Hana, JasonWazza, Firebringer, Alisae, MikhailTal

osuka (2):

Roden, Random Nurse

Flavor Leaf(1):

Flavor Leaf

Firebringer (1):

Hu Tao

Alisae (1):

osuka

Not Voting (3):

Dunnstral, Takutai, Alisae

Day One ends in (expired on 2023-07-28 05:00:00)

you have me as voting takutai and not voting

[Alisae]

Either way you're wasting your vote as scum or town. So enjoy your lurk.

You know it's really funny to me, no matter what you say to me right now it goes right back against you.
You are essentially arguing against yourself and your own actions.

No I'm saying your vote is shit.

Do you actually mean that it's a shit vote, or is the push shit

Look at this filler from scum. A pointless thing to ask for someone who doesn't care. Okay Roden you're not voting me but why should I trust you here?

I call a scum in Alisae and Roden and look at all of the people who want to kill little old me for me it isntead of, you know, hunting scum

Cry me a fucking river

[Alisae]

Can you clarify what you meant in 563 now Takutai?

No you're scummy and I chose to ignore you once already.

I'm doing some herb I'll deconstruct the fire, tal, alisae, jason and other posible votes soon. I did expect this after all, this is a clutter game and in clutter games some town have the tendency to become lazy, desperate, confused or all of them at once.

Luckily the Osuka wagon is still like 95% a town one so plus mine we already have a lot analyze.

why are you acting like you're just so much better than everyone else?

[Alisae]

Like bro what have you even accomplished

[Alisae]

On one hand, I would not mind to send Takutai to the shadow realm.
On the other hand, I have a hard to time justifying why it is a wolf acts like this

[Alisae]

osuka's wagon didn't rly evaporate.
me jason nurse sakura were like lets vote this guy
eventually those people decided that they didn't want osuka so they eventually swapped onto takutai

[Alisae]

Norwee was already voting Takutai
The only unique voters are Mikhail and Fire.
the least townie person on the Takutai wagon is probably Fire.
Fire voted Takutai because Sakura asked him to.

[Alisae]

Is fl mafia???????
Maybe I should just go to bed

[Alisae]

That’s not rly my concern.

Idunno, there’s something that doesn’t make sense…

[Alisae]

Maybe I need sleep but I feel like I’m stuck on something.
Maybe I just corpses

[Alisae]

I wish the normal archive was updated…

[Alisae]

Like bro what have you even accomplished

Nothing. You?

A lot


Look man, can u solve?

[Alisae]

Idunno man ur behavior makes no sense.
Ur telling Mikhail not to interact with u, ur telling Norwee and Sakura you don’t care about their takes.

Like this behavior isn’t going to make things suddenly better for u.

What will make things better is if u played the game.

[Alisae]

Like ur burning bridges left and right.

Why?

[Alisae]

Like bro what have you even accomplished

Nothing. You?

A lot


Look man, can u solve?

I don't feel like it, not how you and others like Tal are dictating 'solving' here. I a game with slots lik Dunnstral lmfao. Tyranny of the crowd, nothing else.


Flavor Leaf is town, hammer me everyone knows my role. As I said, what you'll get from me is a final readlist and then nothing else.

I don’t really want to vote u with how ur currently posting but I don’t feel like ur going to give any other players any other real option.

[Alisae]

Like ur burning bridges left and right.

Why?

Because this game is too cluttered and misdirected for me to care.

if you’re not enjoying mafia u shouldn’t be playing mafia.

[Alisae]

I dunno man I’m not confident in takutai flipping mafia.

Ig they’re not really solving or doing anything that’s townie but like wolves aren’t this self-destructive

[Alisae]

But then like what the fuck is going on in this game lmfao

[Alisae]

Idunno if it flips mafia and you guys kill it then I’ll take the L on this read, the play is just so genuinely perplexing to me.

I’m sure more people are willing to kill takutai so maybe my vote just isn’t necessary

[Alisae]

I don’t really want to vote u with how ur currently posting but I don’t feel like ur going to give any other players any other real option.

I'm not giving them options because they don't want them, the miller is I believe town and the early Tal wagon made me very aware that this day was going to be more about personality than catching scum. That's why Dunnstral doens't have votes and I have, scum saw with Tal that someone confrontational can be pushed through here.

So vote me, I flip what I chose to claim, no one really hunted scum today. I don't care because I'll be dead.

Ya bro it’s very easy for people to want to go after players that just aren’t as charismatic

[Alisae]

Tell me about Dunn what’s ur problem with that guy

[Alisae]

Like ur burning bridges left and right.

Why?

Because this game is too cluttered and misdirected for me to care.

if you’re not enjoying mafia u shouldn’t be playing mafia.

Yeah don't say stuff like this to me and honestly I'm not talking to you until I see you tackling certain slots with an open mind, not that I'm directing you but I'm saying that I see no need to clutter this game up any further. and I want to clear my read on your slot up once and for all. Just because I don't like to read twenty pages of mafia a day and don't play five games at a time doesn't mean I don't like mafia.

But seeing people pile onto such weak votes such as Norwee's and Sakura's definitely mean I'm starting to not like this game.

Why should u not be voted up?

[Alisae]

Tell me about Dunn what’s ur problem with that guy

I have no problem with Dunn, the fact that I'm here and Hu Tao or Dunn aren't simply amuses me.

As I said before, I'm very certain I hit gold somewhere in my reads and I'll try and see where.

What makes u think u hit gold?

[Alisae]

Yeah see I'm done I have no idea what you're even trying to achieve here.

Man I’m half asleep, I don’t get why you feel the way u feel at all.
I don’t get why you’re burning bridges and then complaining about how the people who are more charismatic than you are winning
I don’t get your reads
I don’t get anything that goes on in ur head man I just don’t get it

[Alisae]

Mafia is a team game.

[Alisae]

You only have your voice and your vote.
By yourself that’s nothing but with numbers that can become power

[Alisae]

Can I be a wagon instead?

[Alisae]

That seems like a genuinely weird question to ask but like if people think I’m mafia can u put your vote on me?
I feel like that would genuinely make for something that’s more interesting but fuck what do I know

Maybe I should just go to sleep

[Alisae]

Maybe I'm confused, what exactly makes Taku Town from the flailing?

Question is for NorwegianboyEE, Saukura Hana and Alisae.

and I want actual reasoning none of this WIFOMy crap.

His behavior doesn’t rly give me confidence that he flips mafia.
His posting was focused on burning bridges. It’s play that makes other people more unhappy with him. His attitude is basically “fuck bro I don’t give a fuck about this game I hate all of you and wanna see you lose”

I don’t feel like his play comes from mafia

[Alisae]

I can second from experience that I think Hu Tao is an experienced Mafia player even if relatively new to Mafiascum.

That being said, i don’t think I’d consider them that new to this site anymore.

But I would love to be scum with Hu Tao eventually or find scum with Hu Tao as town/town.

So, I did a brief skim of their meta, and my general impression of them is they're more likely to be detached from the gamestate as mafia > town. I kind of want to say they're in their wolf meta right now based on a brief meta check? Idunno can u like verify this.

I'm assuming you just looked at post count. Because the scum game you're referencing, I was one of the leaders in posts and very engaged until my partner basically threw and I got voted out (I explained that in the last post that game). The town game you posted was actually pretty similar to this one. Work got busy so I was a bit inactive and I got scumread for it, but still helped lead town to victory later on. At least you're looking for something but you're on the wrong track here

Metadiving is not rly one of my strengths
A brief skim is = to opening ur iso and scrolling down to try to understand what the vibe was.
I wouldn’t call it an effective way to meta dive.

[Alisae]

Is fl mafia???????
Maybe I should just go to bed

Possibly but not sure why you think that when you asked for their opinion. What's the reason?

it’s not related to anything that happened prior their reads just have me puzzled

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

Everything in mafia is wine
Our job is to sort it

[Alisae]

ok
u do u

[Alisae]

hmmmmmyes the act of rolling eyes is going to mind control you and jason to do as I please hmmmmmyes

[Alisae]

well obviously you didn't like something and obviously you're not expanding so just go on be you I'll let someone else worry because I'm not going to run in circles here.

no im just rolling my eyes because he's saying there's a group of people, there's 1 mafia in that group, and it's me.
it's mild annoyance but if that's what he wants to go off of he can do him

[Alisae]

Oh no Jason, my tr, is going to come after me
Sp00ky

[Alisae]

Sakura what do u think about Jason

[Alisae]

what do u think of their vote on me

[Alisae]

do u think the vote comes from wanting to look good and be justified or he wants to be right

[Alisae]

also sakura i don't quite understand your worldview

[Alisae]

ok but what if I said I disagree

[Alisae]

i want to say i disagree but I think nurse has to post. they're still probably town

[Alisae]

Oh no Jason, my tr, is going to come after me
Sp00ky

Who do you think is scum?

idunno and if i did know i wouldn't say anything

[Alisae]

There was that one time when I called you and Roden scum but I guess we're not talking about that anymore. Good luck with your vote Jason lol my bet is Alisae won't come near e-3 today.

you could vote me and get me closer to it!

[Alisae]

If I'm a wolf my team is never bussing me so the only way to get me out of the game is if all of the village votes me

[Alisae]

UH OH I WAS ACTING SCUMMY

[Alisae]

UH OH I AM ACTING SCUMMY

[Alisae]

YES I RANDED WOLF I LOVE RANDING WOLF

[Alisae]

im just being funny

[Alisae]

sure

[Alisae]

I got time

[Alisae]

Just because u didn’t laugh doesn’t mean it’s not funny

[Alisae]

I mean if ur in a forest and someone is screaming for help because there’s an axe murderer, are they really screaming for help and is there really an axe murderer

[Alisae]

state of the game

[Alisae]

I think this game needs some beeboy in it

[Alisae]

HERE COMES THE CASE BBY

[Alisae]

Possibly hoping we get bored and move back to voting a flailing townie that everyone can gasp at while clutching their pearls

I am TRYING to VOLUNTEER

[Alisae]

But TAKUTAI, DESPITE THINKING I AM A WOLF, DOES NOT THINK I'LL EVEN GET TO E-3, AND WON'T EVEN VOTE ME!!!!!

[Alisae]

u mad

[Alisae]

OMG HE SAID HE WOULD FAKE A GREEN CHECK

[Alisae]

I wanna be green checked! I mean it's impossible but I wanna!

[Alisae]

VOTE: Dunn

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

I can't wait to get green checked

[Alisae]

I wanna be green checked! I mean it's impossible but I wanna!

Why is it impossible?

because I'm aligned with the mafia ofc, Jason even said I admitted it myself!

[Alisae]

Do you town read Dunn

kiiiiiiiiinda?

[Alisae]

I think I would like a much more proactive dunn and a dunn that posted more and gave time to the thread but when I asked him who was mafia and he said he didn't know who it was, that seemed like an honest reply.

[Alisae]

game seems like an after thought to him

[Alisae]

Oh no Jason, my tr, is going to come after me
Sp00ky

Who do you think is scum?

idunno and if i did know i wouldn't say anything

[Alisae]

Why not? (about the later)

Why would I do that

[Alisae]

I don't care about pronouns you may refer to me as whatever as long as I know its me

[Alisae]

1307 was for Roden you can continue doing you Sakura

[Alisae]

Sakura ur getting ur nurse wagon go vote it

[Alisae]

Sakura, would u like to elaborate on why you're voting me?

[Alisae]

do u think I am actually going to flip mafia or r u just voting me because I am claiming to be mafia

[Alisae]

I am doing nothing therefore I am mafia, that's your logic?

[Alisae]

Do you believe that town must be proactive all of the time?

[Alisae]

If anything, i actually would hope to be wrong. Because you're probably the only real good town player if you are one.

Interesting, so you say I'm a good @ town, yet you're coming at me for not playing my hand?
Wouldn't you think that if I was town, and I am

making

the choice to not do anything, that there would be a strategic decision for not doing anything.

[Alisae]

I think I stopped doing anything proactive around the time I asked you about jason

[Alisae]

there's not much of anything for me to do so..........

[Alisae]

Voting someone doesn't do anything

[Alisae]

people just have to play the game they signed-up to play.
That's all there is to be done atm

[Alisae]

Correct!

[Alisae]

I could understand if you at least were voting someone and waiting for them to respond but i dont even see that.

Consider deepening your world view on how mafia can be played.

[Alisae]

Sakura, i can see a world alisae is scum here but im more leaning town on e
and i don't think ur push is doing much, its def not convincing me.

I think dunnstral is much better wagon to push
just let ali be and do ali things.

let sakura be and do sakura things

[Alisae]

VOTE: Jason
I think voting this is more interesting than voting Dunnstral

[Alisae]

The fact that we have like zero in common this game

I think we have more in common than you think!

[Alisae]

The only person that knows what I'm talking about got rep'd out so RIP

[Alisae]

So it’s strange to me that it doesn’t seem like my person claimed miller

They did but they were very discreet about it

[Alisae]

It’s not like miller is something that has to be claimed right away it’s just a lot of people decide to make that play

[Alisae]

Voting someone doesn't do anything

an empty vote does not pressure make

it actually does!

?????????

Different contexts buddy

[Alisae]

Mikhail was also wining between cop and miller

[Alisae]

But ya claiming miller is the brain off play.
I mean most people will do it if they don’t know how to get further value out of their role but ya

[Alisae]

I need to re-evaluate my Flavor Leaf read. If the team is osuka, sakura hana and flavor leaf... that is one that fit and it worries me.
But I'm still building cloud castles and I know I'm bad when I jump to conclusions.

Why are you re-evaluating fl now?

[Alisae]

I really don’t think fl is mafia

[Alisae]

There’s at least 3 Millers this game.

Me claiming Miller the way I did gets rid of one of my strongest tools as scum: the ability to fake claim to fit the situation I am in.

I have absolutely no defense because of my Miller claim besides a premature cop investigation.

Dude literally no one fakeclaims this role this way on this website

[Alisae]

When was the last time u seen wolves fakeclaim miller when they get copped?
When was the last time u seen wolves fakeclaim miller immediately?

This shit doesn’t happen

[Alisae]

There’s at least 3 Millers this game.

Me claiming Miller the way I did gets rid of one of my strongest tools as scum: the ability to fake claim to fit the situation I am in.

I have absolutely no defense because of my Miller claim besides a premature cop investigation.

Dude literally no one fakeclaims this role this way on this website

Miller immediate fake claim?

That’s how I met Something_Smart.

We were scum together. It was a Sunday. I pick up my role PM, and in the Scum PT, I see this guy with a Saturn for a profile picture go “I think I’m gonna claim Miller first post.”

I look at the game thread, and what do you know, a Miller claim first page.

Twenty pages later, the talks of there’s a Miller with no cop emerge! Let’s kill the Miller.

I claim Odd-Night Cop, a go to of mine to fake claim, and the rest…is history. One by one we take down the entire town, and then use our third partner to neighborize one townie.

We’re in 4-3 Elo, 3 of the townies now that we’re the scum team, but that one neighborized pocket we got wins us the game.

Bows.

This set off an era of fake Mason claims for the next year. Players like myself needed to get a Miller fake claims victory.

I did it, then Tchill did it.

While we were not as bold as Something Smart to do it on the first page, it was a success nonetheless.

And then we went into that dreaded too many Millers in setups phase followed by THE TRAITOR META UGGHHHH.

What year did this play happen?
I did a little bit of fakeclaiming miller myself as mafia before and it’s not like millers can’t exist without a cop in the website, and I’m pretty sure skimming past normal games will verify this

[Alisae]

Fuck *Miller fake claims.

But yeah, this was like 5-6 years ago for sure.

It doesn’t happen.

Oh ok ya
Even then it was kind of rare. I don’t think I’ve ever seen mafia claim miller in response to being copped on my time playing on site.
I actually don’t think I’ve seen mafia fakeclaim miller at the start of the game immediately either

[Alisae]

My opinion is that innovation seems to have gone down over the years.

[Alisae]

There was that one time when I called you and Roden scum but I guess we're not talking about that anymore. Good luck with your vote Jason lol my bet is Alisae won't come near e-3 today.

oh look
you could vote me and I would be at e-3

[Alisae]

Scum!Dunn tends to be low activity compared to town!Dunn, in my experience

If his buddies are waiting for him to come back to defend himself then the lack of activity makes sense

Nah this isn't true. A lot of people say this but it has just never been true. If I'm low activity it means I'm just not very interested in the game on a personal level.

Also the game is moving at a mile a minute from my point of view so I don't know what you mean by lack of activity. If you do think I am low activity as scum can you link to a game where this is the case or something.

Gonna just post games we were both in.

Town games with moderate-to-high activity:

SCP Upick: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=54&t=87700&user_select%5B%5D=27717

GnG Upick: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=54&t=89068&user_select%5B%5D=27717

Lost: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=56&t=89664&user_select%5B%5D=27717

Scum game with low activity:

Control: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=56&t=88500&user_select%5B%5D=27717

I've played a lot with Dunn.
I think Dunn just isn't interested in the game on a personal level. This isn't uncommon for them.

[Alisae]

There’s at least 3 Millers this game.

Me claiming Miller the way I did gets rid of one of my strongest tools as scum: the ability to fake claim to fit the situation I am in.

I have absolutely no defense because of my Miller claim besides a premature cop investigation.

where is everyone getting that there’s 3 millers? did i miss something?

Why did you ask me if I was a miller or not?

[Alisae]

There’s at least 3 Millers this game.

Me claiming Miller the way I did gets rid of one of my strongest tools as scum: the ability to fake claim to fit the situation I am in.

I have absolutely no defense because of my Miller claim besides a premature cop investigation.

where is everyone getting that there’s 3 millers? did i miss something?

Why did you ask me if I was a miller or not?

youve been playing weird, but honestly it was sort of a reaction test

explain the reaction test to me

[Alisae]

There’s at least 3 Millers this game.

Me claiming Miller the way I did gets rid of one of my strongest tools as scum: the ability to fake claim to fit the situation I am in.

I have absolutely no defense because of my Miller claim besides a premature cop investigation.

where is everyone getting that there’s 3 millers? did i miss something?

Why did you ask me if I was a miller or not?

youve been playing weird, but honestly it was sort of a reaction test

explain the reaction test to me

yes so i did something unexpected to test what your reaction was

Is that it?
Was it seriously that poorly thought out?

[Alisae]

Also please fucking stop soft claiming VT just because you're not having fun atm

who is this for??????

[Alisae]

I still don’t get why there are supposedly 3 millers.
Is it just because FL said so?

what do u think?

[Alisae]

3 masons vs 3 goons and that it being for prs has always been a balanced setup I think

[Alisae]

Would that not be wildly unbalanced if there were 3 informed Miller's in the game?

As they would basically turn into a Masonry of sorts without a PT? (Reminder that Miller is only normal as a town role)

I've seen scum miller but i think that's not normal anyway so irrelevant.
I don't know how else to explain this 3 miller shenanigan.

I can
there are 3 millers and they know who each other are. Informed or not informed, they just found each other

[Alisae]

Would that not be wildly unbalanced if there were 3 informed Miller's in the game?

As they would basically turn into a Masonry of sorts without a PT? (Reminder that Miller is only normal as a town role)

I've seen scum miller but i think that's not normal anyway so irrelevant.
I don't know how else to explain this 3 miller shenanigan.

I can
there are 3 millers and they know who each other are. Informed or not informed, they just found each other

Pretty sure if i were a miller i wouldnt immediately assume there's other millers in play, in fact i'd probably counter claim it if i saw a claim.

dying functionally does the same thing. Rolecard isn't going to change anything. Sure you can plan a CC but you don't technically have to CC right away

[Alisae]

like you could probably just crumb it and you're good to go.
Rushing things like that can be bad and not really well thought out. There could be consequences to your actions that you haven't considered

[Alisae]

You're telling that to the town doctor that CC'd a VT jokingly claiming doctor on day 2...

That is a you problem.
You need to think things through more then

[Alisae]

if someone was claiming doc, depending on the context I probably wouldn't be CCing.

If was a Cop with a guilty, I probably wouldn't claim the guilty.

[Alisae]

In fact here is how I think I would play cop. Cops should be taking notes right now.
I’m a greedy bastard so I would probably not bring a lot of attention to myself. I want to milk my role and get as many results as possible.
When I die, people are going to be combing through my iso for my results, so I can just crumb the results in a way that’s easy to be understood. This applies even with guilties, the fact I have a guilty isn’t going to change. It’s something I can cash in whenever I want. If you make it clear and people are looking, it will be found.

Like claiming your guilty is just a 1 for 1 trade. It puts a target on your back and your usefulness ends with that claimed guilty.

[Alisae]

Sakura you would be very surprised on how many players would probably just claim results right away without thinking

[Alisae]

I'm not sure about Alisae anymore.
Thinking maybe i should put FL and sheep as conftown coz of the miller stuff.

elaborate

[Alisae]

your progression on my slot confuses me Sakura but ok

[Alisae]

Embrace the nothingness.
FL wrote a good post

[Alisae]

Everyone gets so antsy when nobody's doing anything for some reason. We're still actively posting, I think that's an okay position to be in. It generally means scum aren't taking any major actions, or if they are, it's super under the radar, and we just get to vibe it out, and start to feel when people are trying to shift momentum more.

I think we're in an alright spot.

[Alisae]

Sakura Machine Broke

[Alisae]

Alisae, you’re so scum here but it’s okay, just kill me off and i won’t tell anyone else

[Alisae]

Nothing is stopping anyone from pushing reads.
Jason could push me harder if he wanted to do that

[Alisae]

Town!Jason hates this because it's impossible to progress reads and actually make headway.

there's 62 pages
if people wanted to form and push reads, there is room for that to happen

[Alisae]

im just playing to my strengths

[Alisae]

Well since FL didnt reply i'll just do it then. Sorry it took a bit.

Dayvig: Random Nurse

when you're so desperate you're faking dayvigs

[Alisae]

dark gathering episode 3 - 1/4
I think the spooky factor is starting to wane

I don't think I am interested in this show because haha spooky

[Alisae]

Sakura who are your top 2 scumreads

How about you answer this question?

Roden and I'm trying to figure out if FL meta thing was him trying to find a reason to scumread me or was actually misspoken. I am a little weary of firebringer too but could just be his way of speaking. You?

I think Alisae Firebringer and FL are all my top scum reads at this point.

why FL?

[Alisae]

I'm at the point where I don't believe FL's miller claim.

Why

[Alisae]

I'm at the point where I don't believe FL's miller claim.

Why

Why is it so much of a concern?

because the reason is bullshit?
He is either a miller or a wolf you either pick one and you go with it and the only real indicator you have to read the player off of is their play.

[Alisae]

I'm at the point where I don't believe FL's miller claim.

Why

Why is it so much of a concern?

because the reason is bullshit?
He is either a miller or a wolf you either pick one and you go with it and the only real indicator you have to read the player off of is their play.

I'm confused, I haven't really given the reason, so how can you think it is bullshit?

the miller claim is wine and the only indicator we have of reading their player is their play

[Alisae]

Everything in mafia is wine
Our job is to sort it

So why is it mafia as opposed to a real miller?

[Alisae]

How is it so hard for me to get you to say why you think the miller claim is fake

[Alisae]

Everything in mafia is wine
Our job is to sort it

So why is it mafia as opposed to a real miller?

Why is it my job to tell you?

okay so you're mafia.
Got it.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Roden

UNVOTE: Roden
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

UNVOTE: NorwegianboyEE
VOTE: MikhailTal

UNVOTE: MikhailTal
VOTE: Osuka

UNVOTE: Osuka

VOTE: Firebringer

UNVOTE: Firebringer
VOTE: Takutai

I will say i think there is at least one scum in

{Alisae, Sakura, Norwegian}

Because none of them can even actually answer with a reason that isn't just WIFOM

Taku there is plenty of other reason's I can have as Town to vote you there.

I'm not seeing them in your words and as it's "spineless" to not spew out your every thought in a game that's already on page forty-four I'm afraid Tal and I would like to hear them.

Wagon analysis can give us info, the fact that your wagon went up at that speed is fine, but the speed it dropped off makes me think scum was on the wagon and jumped off it because of convenience, and because they wanted to try and avoid some of the backlash that the wagon has.

Add that to the fact that none of the 3 can give even a halfway decent reason means there is a fairly decent chance that there was scum there.

UNVOTE: Takutai
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

If your just going to admit it's you then fine.

UNVOTE: NorwegianboyEE
VOTE: Alisae

This is a voting record that comes from mafia

[Alisae]

Everything in mafia is wine
Our job is to sort it

So why is it mafia as opposed to a real miller?

Why is it my job to tell you?

okay so you're mafia.
Got it.

So why is it this is annoying you so much?

because your voting record is terrible

[Alisae]

Everything in mafia is wine
Our job is to sort it

So why is it mafia as opposed to a real miller?

Why is it my job to tell you?

okay so you're mafia.
Got it.

So why is it this is annoying you so much?

because your voting record is terrible

What's that got to do with me doubting that FL is a miller?

It makes me think your hunting is fake

[Alisae]

For example, if you genuinely believed that Takutai was a flailing wolf, you could have pushed them harder.
Instead you decided to try to find mafia in {Sakura, Norwee, Me}. All of these players to me come across as town, Sakura is probably the least townie person in the group. I have my own concerns about Sakura, as her progression on me is really weird, but it could come from her as town.

[Alisae]

1 wolf in {Jason, Fire, Sakura}. I would execute these players in the order that I written them in.
I think osuka asking me if I was a miller isn't a reaction test but a blatant attempt at rolefishing. Usually reaction tests have thought processes behind them (see me putting my vote down on Norwee and faking a fos on him to see what he does) so him writing that rolefishy question off as a reaction test comes off as sketchy to me.

I'm drawing a blank on who the last one could be.

[Alisae]

For example, if you genuinely believed that Takutai was a flailing wolf, you could have pushed them harder.

Where have i said this exactly?

You said they were flailing but not a wolf.

[Alisae]

Maybe I'm confused, what exactly makes Taku Town from the flailing?

Question is for NorwegianboyEE, Saukura Hana and Alisae.

and I want actual reasoning none of this WIFOMy crap.

the question is written to imply they're not town for their posting

[Alisae]

I've voted almost the entire lobby at this point, why are they scum for it and not me?

This is what you do.

[Alisae]

Fire do u think Sakura is out of wolfrange

[Alisae]

because that's how I read the sentence

[Alisae]

Yea

Could u tell me exactly why you think this?

[Alisae]

because that's how I read the sentence

And that remains so even with how I unvoted once I got the answer to said question?

So why exactly do I pose said question and unvote as scum?

I mean I don't exactly quite understand your position on Takutai.
If you think that Takutai isn't going to be an option today, you can make up a dichotomy that's bad and waste time faking hunting within that dichotomy.

[Alisae]

Like here's the issue Alisae, you post my voting habit as a scum voting habit, why can't it be town using their vote to try and assist with generating reads?

because my read is the dichotomy of {Ali, Norwee, Sakura} is something I think it's wrong and I think it's wrong for malicious reasons as opposed to someone looking for truth?
I mean you voted me because I "slipped" my alignment.

[Alisae]

that vote on me because I "slipped" my alignment doesn't come across as trying to generate reads. It comes across as wanting to look justified and look good. It wants to come across as being ironclad rather than be right.

[Alisae]

The way things are going so far, Sakura is probably going to be way easier to read with a complete body of work.
Her read progression on me pings me because it's based on nothing aside from "Ali isn't playing mafia how I think mafia should be played or how I would expect them to play." We obviously haven't played in years, my playstyle has significantly evolved since we last played I think, so it's just hard to ascertain the motivations behind it right away.

[Alisae]

So you think I am scum, and just used that to try and generate an area to have my vote parked for the rest of the day?

Why would I limit my range so much as scum?

as far as I'm concerned your range isn't really limited.
Onus is on town to find mafia so as long as you are doing that and disrupting that process then in the moment its a fine play.
not rly interested in engaging in "why would I do X." You seem adaptable so you can do whatever you want in the moment and in that moment, that could be a good play to waste time and fake hunting. Not much was really happening and if something outside of those popped up and you wanted to go for it, you could, or if you calculated that your vote wouldn't be necessary, you could just continue to fake hunting.

And why can't I be town making a wrong dichotomy?

And why can't you be wrong about said dichotomy?

I didn't just vote you because of the "slip", and I think you should be aware of that.

because the way I solve is I take my read on players, I plug it in, and I try to use it to help me figure out what's going on in the game. I'm town. If I plug in Norwee and Sakura as town, then that leaves me with a big question mark for you. It's not like its impossible for you to be town, but I think wolves like to look ironclad as opposed to villagers who want to be right and so far I think you are the former.

and yes, I'm aware, the way I see it, its the straw that broke the camel's back. It's the timing.

[Alisae]

Actually im voting you because you're interfering with me trying to scumhunt, we didnt know if RN would react to the reaction test or not considering they dont seem to be a player that has played for very long on the site.

Possibly the same reason i got mad before at Mikhail.
What's with people stopping me from getting reactions from RN anyway.
It's almost like RN is scum with those 2 or something.

So like, this isn't exactly rational?
Do people just throw out "reaction tests" these days without any expectations on how they think it'll actually end up happening? Like they just throw something out just to see what happens?

It's irrational.
It's emotional. I feel like you hunt based on your emotions rather than what's logical.
It's impatient. You felt like nothing was happening consistently and you feel pressured to make something happen and cause the gamestate to be proactive because you hate what's currently happening.

[Alisae]

So your so certain on Norwee and Sakura town that I have to be scum with this reasoning?

You can still be town but you're the most interesting player I think I can vote and suspect so right now I think you're mafia, or at least want the thread to believe that I think you're mafia.

I'm happy to call sakura town d1.
Norwee I think is likely to be a villager, not as confident as I am on sakura, but I am most likely not rly going to vote it today.

[Alisae]

Sakura how would you describe your playstyle?
What are you good at?
What are you bad at?

You don't even have to answer these questions in thread. Just think about them, and let it marinate.

[Alisae]

Onus is on town to find mafia so as long as you are doing that and disrupting that process then in the moment its a fine play.

Ah good to know that you're aware that your actions are pro-mafia.

Like, actually, how realistically do you believe that your reaction test, that can be at best described at random, would actually generate something useful?

[Alisae]

its a dayvig

[Alisae]

in a normal game

[Alisae]

my opinion is that it doesn't seem well thought out but it is true that pushing my opinion onto someone else is probably wrong!
oh well

[Alisae]

I'll answer because I already answered it... i dont know lol

This is why I said you didn't have to answer these questions in thread.
You're not GOING to know the answers right away, but answering what it is you're good at, what it is you're bad at, helps you define your playstyle.
This is a helpful thread for understanding it, because the concept of a "playstyle" isn't something that's really well defined, but thinking about it this way helps you visualize it.

[Alisae]

I can’t tell if Jason is scum or just really bad at engaging.

Could be both.

I ‘might’ lean town there, but wouldn’t be heartbroken to fade them.

Feels like a solid Day 1 fade

I assume he is a competent player

[Alisae]

I can’t tell if Jason is scum or just really bad at engaging.

Could be both.

I ‘might’ lean town there, but wouldn’t be heartbroken to fade them.

Feels like a solid Day 1 fade

I assume he is a competent player

Is he a pre-2012 player.

I think he is competent and refreshing to play with given the state of the website.
If you don't think so, I would suggest using meta to figure out the truth

[Alisae]

ali is the only thing ur worried about sakura is her read on u?

Ali’s worried about a lot of things, don’t worry

ya I'm worried about when you'll post that banger case you have on me and just axe murder me to death true

[Alisae]

VOTE: Norwee
well that was a very bad string of posts

[Alisae]

ya ik
amazing how 2 posts can flip my read on you entirely

[Alisae]

VOTE: Roden

UNVOTE: Roden
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

UNVOTE: NorwegianboyEE
VOTE: MikhailTal

UNVOTE: MikhailTal
VOTE: Osuka

UNVOTE: Osuka

VOTE: Firebringer

UNVOTE: Firebringer
VOTE: Takutai

I will say i think there is at least one scum in

{Alisae, Sakura, Norwegian}

Because none of them can even actually answer with a reason that isn't just WIFOM

Taku there is plenty of other reason's I can have as Town to vote you there.

I'm not seeing them in your words and as it's "spineless" to not spew out your every thought in a game that's already on page forty-four I'm afraid Tal and I would like to hear them.

Wagon analysis can give us info, the fact that your wagon went up at that speed is fine, but the speed it dropped off makes me think scum was on the wagon and jumped off it because of convenience, and because they wanted to try and avoid some of the backlash that the wagon has.

Add that to the fact that none of the 3 can give even a halfway decent reason means there is a fairly decent chance that there was scum there.

UNVOTE: Takutai
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

If your just going to admit it's you then fine.

UNVOTE: NorwegianboyEE
VOTE: Alisae

This is a voting record that comes from mafia

So… because they change their vote a lot?

Again, i don’t believe that Alisae truly believes these narratives that they are selling.

So you think I am scum, and just used that to try and generate an area to have my vote parked for the rest of the day?

Why would I limit my range so much as scum?

as far as I'm concerned your range isn't really limited.
Onus is on town to find mafia so as long as you are doing that and disrupting that process then in the moment its a fine play.
not rly interested in engaging in "why would I do X." You seem adaptable so you can do whatever you want in the moment and in that moment, that could be a good play to waste time and fake hunting. Not much was really happening and if something outside of those popped up and you wanted to go for it, you could, or if you calculated that your vote wouldn't be necessary, you could just continue to fake hunting.

And why can't I be town making a wrong dichotomy?

And why can't you be wrong about said dichotomy?

I didn't just vote you because of the "slip", and I think you should be aware of that.

because the way I solve is I take my read on players, I plug it in, and I try to use it to help me figure out what's going on in the game. I'm town. If I plug in Norwee and Sakura as town, then that leaves me with a big question mark for you. It's not like its impossible for you to be town, but I think wolves like to look ironclad as opposed to villagers who want to be right and so far I think you are the former.

and yes, I'm aware, the way I see it, its the straw that broke the camel's back. It's the timing.

This seems like a lot of words for "you scumread Sakura and Norwee, but i townread them. So you are mafia"

Which is kinda… awful reasoning?
Am i wrong here?

like both of these are extremely disingenuous and dishonest

[Alisae]

if those 2 posts are supposed to be your "actual reasoning" then from my pov you are scumclaiming.

[Alisae]

god I need a votecount

[Alisae]

Kay.
I btw pointed out actual reasoning for why i thought you have been scummy.

Like shit bro, do you care about looking good or do you care about being justified?

[Alisae]

FL, you wanna know what's funny?

Norwee is mafia, so he's clueless when it comes to these type of things, so he actually just has 0 idea of what's going on XD

[Alisae]

that's incredible information if you ask me

[Alisae]

VOTE: Norwee
well that was a very bad string of posts

And yet I'm scum for suggesting that they were scum?

Like what the fuck is this game?

wow sorry I couldn't predict norwee to claim wolf with just 2-3 posts

[Alisae]

was norwegian scummy because they're picturing firebringer in beach shorts sippin some tasty flavor

Something that is funny about Norwee is that the skitter tell works on him

[Alisae]

cannot joke as a wolf

[Alisae]

flavor leaf having fun in this same game that Im reading is so weird that it might be mafia

nah bro
source: trust me dude

[Alisae]

Roden what do you think of Norwee

[Alisae]

I say "everyone is scummy to me" a lot but this game is like truly the truest it's ever been

Sheep talk to me, what's goin on

[Alisae]

Roden what do you think of Norwee

Tonally they seem town to me and they haven't done anything I particularly disagree with. Or at least nothing I can remember off the top of my head. And I find a lot of his posts relateable.

If I'm misreading his tone then I legit need a frame by frame replay here

I don't think this is great for reading Norwee.
Wolf!Norwee is easy to spot if has a clear agenda or something he wants.
Wolf!Norwee is someone who wants to look good and he wants to be justified as opposed to when he's town. When Norwee is town the guy just wants to be right. I think his latest posting towards my posting comes across as him wanting to look good and be justified. I don't think he has a genuine read or concern on my slot at all, I think he's just voting and taking pot shots at me to try to just make me look bad.

[Alisae]

Flavour could be scum with Alisae? Acts like they scumread it, but then get’s skittish later when there’s more pressure on the slot. Also the "i know ur mafia but won’t push u" deal.

you are obvwolfing

[Alisae]

I will compromise on Osuka

[Alisae]

there's very little value to saying "hurrrrr this slot is null" so i dont do that because its a waste of everyone's time.

i hardly ever bother to put shit together in a list because that's way too much effort so if you want to know where my reads are at, i suggest you read what i've written in the thread. if there's something specific you want clarification on, feel free to ask but general "what do you think about the game?" sort of questions are just sort of garbage and don't really get anyone anywhere

These sort of posts i think usually come from town mindset since as scum i think they would just try to fake some lame and easy reads rather than going the route of not doing so and explaining in detail why they don't have much yet.

This is probably Norwee talking about his mafia partner

[Alisae]

Also i’m willing to stake my life on Osuka!town.
If they flip scum at any point then you’re all free to turbolim me.

sure, double down!
bold move cotton, let's see how it plays out for you

[Alisae]

I say "everyone is scummy to me" a lot but this game is like truly the truest it's ever been

Sheep talk to me, what's goin on

Random Nurse
Flavor Leaf
Hu Tao
NorwegianboyEE
Firebringer
Sakura Hana
osuka
JasonWazza
Takutai
Roden
MikhailTal
Dunnstral
Alisae

random nurse seems wolfy. I am using a sort of extreme game as a reference point, maybe he just reformed since then
flavor leaf meh I get gut pings but I guess I agree the miller stuff is more likely villa for him but im not as at 100%
hu tao I dont remember ever reading one of his posts so far
norwee is probably town. but if the wolfgame I am using as a comparison is a bad example (apparently osuka has been snowed by him before) then this read is weaker
firebringer no clue, I might actually call him towny but basically null
sakura has had gut pings scum. one super random example is that her woes this afternoon about not being able to find a comfortable scumread felt sorta performative. I feel like... not being able to find a scumread is like totally whatever. sorry if that was real frustration.
osuka is gut wolf. I feel like as villa he was more "directed", like with an agenda of "please kill this person", while his spurt of posts I just read in my catchup was like random stuff and defending self and then meh
jasonwazza is probably town
takutai is probably town but the realization that this was an alt instead of a newb sorta rattled the foundations of that perception
roden is a little underwhelming compared to my past game with him which maybe is wolf if this is a person who is just more underwhelming as wolf. they got more ok tho
I am town
dunnstral is probably town.
u have some gut pings. for example I feel like u are being an agent of chaos and that is more scum u than town u but I dont actually know u that well

page- apparently im on page 26?? I thought it was 36 or some shit Jesus

I think Nurse is townie and I think his interactions with Mikhail are probably likely to come from him being town and I also liked their osuka vote when they placed it.
FL is town.
Sakura is town. She acts this way a lot.
I didn't know Takutai was an alt but ig that makes sense. I still feel like their actions aren't exactly wolf driven and I feel like people who have played as puzzling as this guy has played probably just flip town and say things they genuinely believe in.
Roden I feel like is decently townie? I would be surprised if they're mafia because they don't seem like they're moving about the game in ways that are mafia indicative.
Dunn town, Jason town both of these we agree on.

So to me that just leaves these 4 players:
Osuka Hu Tao Norwee Fire

I think Norwee is obvscum. I think Ouska is definitely their partner. Its just a matter of figuring out which one it is in Fire + Hu Tao. It's probably Hu Tao.

[Alisae]

My goal is to catch Alisae scum and get them flipped without ever having voted them (bar maybe hammer in a few day phases)

can u get takutai to put down a vote

[Alisae]

I find it a bit strange Alisae would call me obvscum when nobody else agrees since that would mean as scum they'd lack a lot of self-awareness but other than that i think my reasoning for scumreading them is sound.

Another post prioritizing prioritizing being justified and ironclad

[Alisae]

Ok now TWO slots both claim they scumread Alisae but won't vote them for bragging rights.

This is kinda making it harder on everyone if Alisae is scum here.

If I pushed Alisae outright, nobody would have wanted them.

YO VERY BIG TRUE

[Alisae]

Is everyone in this game informed except for me?

its not a skill ur good at, dw about it

[Alisae]

mechanical things go way over your head anyway

[Alisae]

osuka sakura norwee would be a very funny team

[Alisae]

Everytime you post something like this i can literally see you in your beach shorts sipping an girly drink at the Bahamas resort with your sunglasses and tiny macbook pc, typing down with piano fingers: "Hehe, just do what makes you enjoy the game , as you go off to bask in the sun and continue feeling accomplished despite doing nothing in this game of mafia!!

Whyyy!!

saying ive done nothing in this game is pretty ridiculous

He is mafia

[Alisae]

osuka sakura norwee would be a very funny team

The best part is this entire team is clueless to everything that’s happening