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[the worst]

hello lovely people i haven't started reading up yet but i'm guessing we're in yeetlo so i'm gonna get on that

i'm in a hood with jv and like, a town backup neighbour has just flipped, so i'm kind of solving this on the basis that they're probably scum

[the worst]

bet. i'm wary i might be in trouble here because jv is like, a very good player, and if they're widely townread i am going to have a really rough time clearing my name but i'm excited to give it a red hot go

i really like solving in f5 anyway

[the worst]

oh sweet. I guess this game is something like

JV/ZZZX
JV/RN
ZZZX/RN
RN/Wiz

Has anyone got a summary of claims handy?

[the worst]

I'm inclined towards believing the investigative claim if there isn't a cc because frankly, backup neighbour seems like a (neat) gimmick to avoid ⅓ of the plist being in the same hood and an indecisive doctor isn't really enough town power

Thinking about it now actually an indecisive doctor tends to suggest the existence of an investigative role of some kind, since they're like indecisive to avoid a "follow the cop" situation


pedit: you're my favourite.

Traffic analyst is such an interesting choice of investigative tbh I guess there's like, the false guilty on the backup neighbour?

[the worst]

jv/zzzx seems like the more likely world

obviously an actual catch-up is pending likely when i get off work

[the worst]

literally just reopened the thread to check if anyone had verified that, thanks. i haven't played much lately.

i suppose like, as usual, TA clears are a lot more valuable than guilties given hood WIFOM

[the worst]

hindsight is 20/20 so huge pinch of salt but as of page 3, i think my pred + passenger are really towny

[the worst]

as of page 4 i understand why we're at page 20 on day 3 lmao

between a pg4 lolhammer and the nightkill on hu tao who like.. i don't think was like doing anything... i am floored

i will recover from this and get to work i swear

[the worst]

fmpov there's kind of two worlds here

1- RN is actually a town power role, who saw an opportunity to get off a policy lim d1 (for better or for worse) and took it, trusting his own ability to get off some shots before being run up and mechanically solve the game.

2- RN is scum who saw the opportunity to end d1 prematurely and swing a TPR claim to get the heat off himself. if we're in this world, then RN also did this knowing that he wouldn't be targeted by an investigative role n1 and like,, i just feel like this is really not all that high probability a world

[the worst]

actually reading this thread for the first time with the advance knowledge that RN is claiming TPR just makes it really hard for me to see any scum motive there at all. it feels like a risk not worth taking if he isn't sincere.

rn i'm being precautious, and i think wiz is independently very towny, but can i please verify that you aren't fakeclaiming your clear on wiz?

if you aren't then the scumteam is like, near-confirmed to me

[the worst]

I don’t doubt that BlueSnakelet and heiphizhu are neighbors, but my theory is that they are Mafia Neighbors who are informed that there is a backup neighbor in the game so they have to do scum theater in that neighborhood in case one of them dies and the Backup comes into the hood and is protected by the doctor???

holy shit like. unfortunately i know this is not the setup but i think this is the coolest hood setup concept i've ever heard.

[the worst]

jv's catch-up is like... really scummy y'all

[the worst]

i've just skimmed. if anyone is not locked on me being scum in the hood, please work with me. this isn't going to be easy by any stretch but this game is still winnable.



zzzx is just not an easy read. they have done very little this game. they were a passive presence on d1, picked a fight with rn over mechanical play instead of solving d2, and their end of day readlist feels largely very safe, and in part an excuse to pivot onto a passenger lim which they had already decided on before they actually did their catch-up? without the mechanical information we had i think i'd be null/scum on this slot and kinda just drag zzzx about their behaviour d2 but like. as it stands, pending rn's confirmation, i'm pretty sure zzzx is also confirmed scum to me. so there's that.

jackson has turned this game around in a way which is just, like, very scum-aligned. their slot was the larger wagon at the time of their replace-in, their pred did not look great and they did need to do something to turn it around. their catchup posts were superficially fine, but what they actually accomplished were:
- establishing blue as potential hoodscum, pretty much ignoring the 2x scum hood analysis? .... which like, as a townie in the hood, this feels fairly pertinent to me but i'll circle back to this
- establishing passenger as potential hoodscum, and then ultimately heavily driving this read based on passenger being "caught in a lie". this is a fairly common scum tactic where they latch onto a perceived untruth at the expense of further solving.
- sets zzzx up as a scumread, and does a lot to be seen to be scumreading them. but never actually pushes zzzx. jackson briefly voted for zzzx, but you can see they take the first opportunity to shift off this wagon.

none of these present as earnest scumreads. there is also a marked difference in the way jackson manoeuvres around zzzx's slot vs. the way they talk about my slot and passenger. they are doing as much as they can to keep doors for potential eliminations open, rather than actually find townreads & limit the pool of suspects.

the way they ignore the conversation about a potential 2x scum hood is also pinging because fmpov it's clearly in jackson's best interest to let that wifom live on in the hopes that if they are caught, i'm still a viable misyeet after them.



i also think blue was really towny? their day one posts weren't exactly groundbreaking, but i don't think their reads presented as made-up and i think it's noticeable that they were approaching this game from a perspective of sorting alignments, not a perspective of making friends and getting by. their day two posts also feel really pure from where i stand - they read as someone who was manipulated, not the manipulator.




i'm going to keep this pretty summary. i'm wary that this is literally confirmed fmpov. i doubt that me extensively casing a jv/zzzx team is all that valuable, and i doubt that extensively towncasing blue is going to be all that helpful. i kind of need to know where y'all are at right now.

[the worst]

I wonder if it could be a Worst/ZZZX team.

talk me through this? i know that this isn't the team but i'm hoping i can be of some kind of help with seeing it.

[the worst]

I wonder if it could be a Worst/ZZZX team.

also sorry this is over the top but please put me out of my misery

rn i'm being precautious, and i think wiz is independently very towny, but can i please verify that you aren't fakeclaiming your clear on wiz?

[the worst]

i also think blue was really towny? their day one posts weren't exactly groundbreaking, but i don't think their reads presented as made-up and i think it's noticeable that they were approaching this game from a perspective of sorting alignments, not a perspective of making friends and getting by. their day two posts also feel really pure from where i stand - they read as someone who was manipulated, not the manipulator.

If you don’t mind me asking, who do you feel manipulated Blue?

Also, it seems to me like the general consensus is some combination of ZZZX, Jackson, and worst is our scumteam, which isn’t horrible odds for us to pick from—2/3 is better than 2/5 for sure.

I don't think a single person overtly manipulated Blue. Honestly, scum rarely do overtly manipulate townies. I think townies are usually manipulated by a scum-led gamestate, rather than by a specific member of the scumteam.

[the worst]

Plus you forget all the work I put in when I came into the game when nothing socially was ever happening.
D1 ended prematurely and then the game decided to focus on a mass-claim. So I had to sift through RVS and then D2 mech-plays.

Don't act like I should have been able to be on my top scum-reading game with so little to go off.

Your prior posts are trying to negotiate with me. I'm not sure why you're trying to persuade me, you're pretty much confirmed scum fmpov? Also I don't think I've been misrepresentative at all - I've laid out what the game looks like from my perspective and you're basically throwing your hands up and going "nuh uh".

As for this -- not much was happening, but your pred was being wagoned. There was no mounting counter-wagon at the time. I think it's pretty obvious that you had to do something, and you do have a high-effort scumgame, it absolutely lines up that you would replace into that gamestate and realise that you had to take the game by the horns.

That doesn't take S tier scumplay. I think it completely aligns with your playstyle, and I think it's exactly the position you would have found yourself in.

I'm not even interested in arguing back at you but like, ironically I think you're representing *my* post.

[the worst]

let's leave heip until the postgame. the mod made that request for a reason.

[the worst]

reflecting on this, if RN is scum that gambit has already won him the game so

VOTE: JV

not on my best vibe today, i'll be around more tomorrow - if i wake up to a town loss mb

[the worst]

i am just a neighbour

just noting for the record that zzzx is doing the same thing where they are keeping JV in their pool without finding any reason to suspect JV.

also shade at me for voting too early? like what excuse me? i just spent like two pages outlining the fact that unless i accept rn as scum -- which i've talked through why i don't at length - my POE is literally JV/zzzx

i get that this is easy to go at me for because voting too early ~ ~ looks bad ~ ~ but it seems really clear to me that zzzx is not doing anything different. like unless they're considering RN then the game is on lock for them too? their posting just reads as disingenuous

[the worst]

obviously don't vote outside of me & jv today. sorry if i've kinda forced something y'all wanted to deal with in f3 but this is a dichotomy that we need solved and if this game is going to be lost on vague unexplained scumreads on my pred, i'd rather lose now than waste my time going toe to toe with JV in f3. they have a lot more energy than me.

+ assumign wiz checks in without a quickhammer, we've basically eliminated every scumteam but 5:
jv, rn
tw, rn
jv, zzzx
tw, zzzx
jv, tw

so voting outside of us is strictly -ev

[the worst]

So Passenger turned up as a Backup Neighbor that was actually Town...

So Snakelet (which is Worst), and JV claimed to be Neighbors?

...

Having a Backup Neighbor doesn't necessarily mean there ARE Neighbors in the game.

Wouldn't it be kinda wicked if the game mod had the Traffic Analyst and a Backup Neighbor, but no actual Neighbors? That'd be clever. That sounds like something

*I*

would do.

trying to solve the mech side of this game is giving me so many goofy setup ideas

i don't think i'm going to be able to outguess the designer/s on this one tbh i'm just going for the scums

[the worst]

i am just a neighbour

just noting for the record that zzzx is doing the same thing where they are keeping JV in their pool without finding any reason to suspect JV.

also shade at me for voting too early? like what excuse me? i just spent like two pages outlining the fact that unless i accept rn as scum -- which i've talked through why i don't at length - my POE is literally JV/zzzx

i get that this is easy to go at me for because voting too early ~ ~ looks bad ~ ~ but it seems really clear to me that zzzx is not doing anything different. like unless they're considering RN then the game is on lock for them too? their posting just reads as disingenuous

The reason I have you both in my pool is basic process of elim, that was the fact that if neither you or JV are scum, then the game is already lost. That, and I honestly think that RN is most likely town, but I have questions.

I think I was quite clear about it actually

i haven't really seen you do any meaningful work to sort RN but you're still hedging on RN? there aren't that many worlds left - if RN is scum you need to be able to find a partner for them

like you're just out here trying to say things and coast through and hoping like hell that other players do something before you do


i'm suddenly realising that me snap-voting jv probably was not part of The Plan for scum here

[the worst]

@bianco: Are you able to tell me if the Scum have Daytalk enabled or no? I'm not seeing any mention of it in the Setup post.

if it helps any, the hood is open during the day

i've kinda been ghosting since daystart

[the worst]

@bianco: Are you able to tell me if the Scum have Daytalk enabled or no? I'm not seeing any mention of it in the Setup post.

if it helps any, the hood is open during the day

i've kinda been ghosting since daystart

Neat. What's the post count?

for obvious reasons, i won't be sharing post counts or timestamps, but i've done by best to summarise the conversations in the hood. it has not been very active. there's some superficial effort between blue & heip but i think blue put in more effort tbqh.

blue posted a readlist d1, heip criticised a couple of reads (in particular blue thought NM was really scummy early which is pretty funny to me).

they mostly chatted during n1, they had opinions!!! about your hammer post. both players considered your scum equity. blue's posting in the hood makes me think they might have clocked you as a TPR (i'm going to need to circle back to this postgame sorry because obviously i can't quote and it's weird tonal/conversational stuff), i think heip had you down as scum overnight.

blue had some sort of wagon plan on d2 involving their premature vote on you and asked heip to keep their vote where it was.

vanilla Villager.

is that the wording of your role PM?

In other words, is your role called "Vanilla Villager" or something else?

there was some musing over whether this was some kind of slip, but blue decided it probably wasn't.

NOW, what do you make of the idea of a mass-claim? We are what, two mis-lims away from defeat? I need more information to work with and I think now is the time for all of us to put our cards on the table.

First, did you use your ability already Night 1? Meaning it can't be used Night 2?

Here let's make a list so we can keep track. Let me know if I missed anyone's claim. I'm an indecisive doctor

AnimatedWiz: VT
ZZZX: VT
Bluesnakelet: Neighbor
TheHoldSteady: Indecisive Doctor
RN: ?
Passenger: ?
heipizhu4: ?

RN please claim next.

First, did you use your ability already Night 1? Meaning it can't be used Night 2?

after this post both blue & heip clocked that you were a town power role and talked about it briefly. obviously you were about to claim.


JV replaces in, posts in the hood that they don't think passenger is scum. they say that if blue is town, then passenger logically should be. this is before jv turned around and started driving for a passenger lim.

JV questioned blue asking to be flipped if JV's slot flips red - blue gives a sassy response asking if JV is scum and JV never replies


i replace in and JV and i excitedly yell at each other before i realise we're in a hood and there's a flipped backup neighbour and we're probably doomed to be enemies

[the worst]

Not sure how to read these two final VCs.

ZZZX was on both of them but to be fair so were me and Wiz. Perhaps Scum wanted one member on the final wagon and one member off at all times to spread out.

just noting that a lot of the votes at the end of d1 were still rvs, so vca rules apply a little different here i think

[the worst]

You know what? Fuck it. This game is going nowhere, and honestly, mass claiming is not the right move here normally, but if it is what it takes to revive the game then fuck it.

I am a Vanilla VT. We claim by pointing into someone else to claim one by one, I will quote whos next and if they dont instantly claim in their next post then we

lim

them.

[...]

Quoted for attention.

Claim, and choose someone to claim next.

UNVOTE: Nurse

I'm a Neighbor.

Steady claim next.

my slot was the first to claim, and claimed neighbour without a backup neighbour claim being in play. for what that's worth.

i do tend to agree that a world with informed scum is like, feasible, i'm just hoping that i've laid out the game clearly enough that y'all can see that i'm town.

[the worst]

I’m personally solving between ducky, zzz and RN and while I believe it’s almost certainly zzz.

RN and ducky occupy a conflicting slot imo as there’s no way they’re both real.

And I know I’m town from your own poe

OK what do you mean by conflicting slot?

By ducky do you mean the Worst?

JV and i have known each other for a few years and they've always called me ducky or duckyboi, so i can confidently say they meant me yeah

[the worst]

OK what are your reads right now?

like in a list?

myself
wiz
you
zzzx
jv


i'm kind of solving by teams at this point though, there's not that many that can still exist i don't think

least likely
rn/jv
rn/wiz
jv/zzzx
most likely

my brain is a mess so i might not be accounting for some fringe possibility but tbh it's like 90%+ jv/zzzx to me

[the worst]

I’m personally solving between ducky, zzz and RN and while I believe it’s almost certainly zzz.

RN and ducky occupy a conflicting slot imo as there’s no way they’re both real.

And I know I’m town from your own poe

OK what do you mean by conflicting slot?

By ducky do you mean the Worst?

JV and i have known each other for a few years and they've always called me ducky or duckyboi, so i can confidently say they meant me yeah

What does JV mean by conflicting slot?

that one i don't know. if i had to guess i think they're saying that their poe is [you, zzzx, me] but they think zzzx is scum and one of us is the second.

[the worst]

i wouldn't suggest trying to solve by specific role pm flavour. for me for example you're always going to get a summary of what my role does, not its exact name.

1- there's a vt role on the first page.
2- plenty of mods will tell you what wording they would use for a specific role! if not, it's a normal, you should be able to anticipate it anyway.
3- scum are going to check shit when they're forming fakeclaims. i'd argue a flavour slip is, if anything, 1% more likely to come from town but pretty close to rand.
4- it is against site rules to quote a role pm. i'm a this-rule-extremist and will not give you any of my role pm unless it's paraphrased.

[the worst]

To be brutally honest I am not satisfied with your flimsy reads list.

I want you to go into more detail,

now

, so I know you've actually been invested in finding who the Scum are instead of simply trying to blend like a cheap imitation.

it takes a bit for me to be rude, and i don't plan to be. i'm going to be very blunt. i can see you're having a moment, but take a moment to apply empathy to the slots you're trying to solve. this game is utterly sideways from where i sit - wiz can't be scum unless they're scum with you. i've spent most of my early posts talking through why i don't think it's feasible that you're scum. i know i'm not scum. so like, i'm not sorry, mechanically the scumteam is pretty close to confirmed to be jv/zzzx to me.

so yeah. my readlist is performative. i'm still town, there's just not really any other reads for me to have.

i'll admit you're specifically not going to get a lot out of me tonight because i'm not in a great headspace. if you need more from me i can give it a go tomorrow. i'm here principally because - to be extremely blunt - this game is at its 11th hour and anyone who's still trying to solve these three slots off participation in f5 has very little idea of how this gamestate works.

like you and wiz have the short straw here, and i know that sucks, but none of jv/zzzx/i really have any realistic scum suspects except each other and i don't find either zzzx or jv pretending to keep you in their POE very convincing.

[the worst]

what *isn't* performative is my posts about how i'm reading the gamestate and how i can see particularly JV setting this up on d2. i can talk more to that tomorrow if it will help.

but like, i can't really solve this game by having a convincing readlist because from my perspective this game is pretty much mechanically solved. if anything, whoever in jv/zzzx/i is still pretending to have a readlist is performative.

[the worst]

To be brutally honest I am not satisfied with your flimsy reads list.

I want you to go into more detail,

now

, so I know you've actually been invested in finding who the Scum are instead of simply trying to blend like a cheap imitation.

it takes a bit for me to be rude, and i don't plan to be. i'm going to be very blunt. i can see you're having a moment, but take a moment to apply empathy to the slots you're trying to solve. this game is utterly sideways from where i sit - wiz can't be scum unless they're scum with you. i've spent most of my early posts talking through why i don't think it's feasible that you're scum. i know i'm not scum. so like, i'm not sorry, mechanically the scumteam is pretty close to confirmed to be jv/zzzx to me.

so yeah. my readlist is performative. i'm still town, there's just not really any other reads for me to have.

i'll admit you're specifically not going to get a lot out of me tonight because i'm not in a great headspace. if you need more from me i can give it a go tomorrow. i'm here principally because - to be extremely blunt - this game is at its 11th hour and anyone who's still trying to solve these three slots off participation in f5 has very little idea of how this gamestate works.

like you and wiz have the short straw here, and i know that sucks, but none of jv/zzzx/i really have any realistic scum suspects except each other and i don't find either zzzx or jv pretending to keep you in their POE very convincing.

You don't have anything else to say about your reads? You've been here for awhile now? And what exactly do you mean by performative?

I expect you to have more meat on these bones you've presented to me. I want a steak, not some paltry frog legs. You've been in the kitchen long enough.

i replaced in night two, the steak isn't even rare yet and it's going to go straight to burned

the worst - i'm town hi
AnimatedWiz - before i'd read the game, i found out that you had got an inno on wiz. therefore mechanically, either wiz is specifically scum with you, or wiz is town.
Random Nurse - before i'd read the game, i found out that you had an inno on wiz. you can still be scum, that totally makes sense. let's pretend that you're scum for a moment. within the scope of your playstyle i find it really hard to accept that you're scum who (1) decided that he was going to fakeclaim an investigative town power role on d1, (2) had absolutely no fear of being investigated himself on n1 or being counterclaimed with this plan, (3) decided to waste his own slot by lolhammering Not_Mafia who is honestly limmable later in the game when player lists aren't familiar with him, (4) then decided to fake a nothing result on hu tao to specifically worsen his own position, (5) lucked in because there wasn't an actual investigative role to counterclaim him. like when i was rereading the game, i absolutely considered that you were not confirmed town to me. but like i've played with you pretty recently, and i have a taste for how you approach this game as town. reading over the way you hammered NM, the way you conducted your claim and the way you've followed through on this, you were just too earnest. this is your town meta and you played a very straight town power role gimmick, and got very lucky that there was a protective role in the setup. i'm willing to bet the game that you're scum.

as soon as i accept this version of reality i'm kind of already left with a POE of:
ZZZX - lurker
JacksonVirgo - plainly powerwolved and manipulated the gamestate on d2

so like. yeah, no, i'm not thinking about this game in terms of ~what my reads are~. i can go back and find things that look towny from you and wiz if you want, but it's performative because this game is pretty close to mechanically solved for me and it's a pretty far stretch for me to consider any team except for [zzzx, jv].

i get that my pred wasn't widely townread and that this game is loseable but also i'd rather not lose this game because you're looking for the traditional TW experience when the only nuanced thing i can examine is your alignment, which seemed patently obvious to me 7 pages into the game.

so please take this away and sleep on it. if you come back and vote me that's whatever, i'll be here postgame to quote this post and we can laugh about it then. but that steak isn't going to be satisfying - it's a bad cut. there's just nothing of meaning for me to analyse.

[the worst]

And what exactly do you mean by performative?

just to address this directly - since i replaced in n2 and only read the game on d3, this game was kind of boolean for me.

if RN is town => scumteam is ZZZX/JV
if RN is ??? => oh god here we go

and like, unfortunately, you're really obviously town.

so you asked me for a readlist, and i put one together because i kind of need to humour you so that we vote together and scum doesn't win this game right now. but it wasn't an organic readlist. i was putting names in a list to explain the *process* i've gone through, not to explain how much i townread individual people based on participation.

[the worst]

Sure, but just to reply to something @worst:
"
(1) decided that he was going to fakeclaim an investigative town power role on d1
"
He didn't, he claimed it D2, after the mass claim. He was the least like NK target on N1

you've been around way too long not to get what i'm saying. lolhammering day one is something you do as a TPR, or you do to look like a TPR. RN had made up his mind the moment he posted during V/LA to lolhammer a policy lim.

also i think this is probably genuinely missed so: this was my attempt to explain how goofy the scum!RN world is and all of these points were on a "if RN is scum this was his plan" basis. not a "this is what happened" basis.

[the worst]

Also, sure, I "lurked" (I was V/LA) for a portion of the day, but I am sure my 75 posts, reads of some sorts, and my discussions are worth a read on me with more words than just one?

i'm not saying like lurking is bad or V/LA is invalid. "Lurker" was my only impression of you for the first ~8-10 pages before it became really clear to me that RN was town and you were very very very likely scum.

[the worst]

Zzzx what decision are you trying to make here

[the worst]

I suppose if I was scum I'd rather avoid snapvoting the highest poster in the thread in f5. But I'm a strange human and I guess if I was scum and did it, I'd say this anyway. So idk whatever this was a fun stray thought.

[the worst]

huh

[the worst]

I'm guessing this is a strategy of trying to sow as much confusion as possible?

Obviously if there is a mailman out there they should probably get on claiming that?

[the worst]

i don't think i'm going to be able to outguess the designer/s on this one tbh i'm just going for the scums

If only I had known

[the worst]

Zzzx what are the odds of an rn/annie scumteam? It feels like, very very wrong to me but I'm suddenly kinda anxious about a quickhammer

[the worst]

I've got nothing. I need to sleep and I feel like I've been very transparent. See y'all tomorrow or post-game.