Mini Normal 2313: I am sitting in a room (game over)

[AnimatedWiz]

Hi everyone—lovely to play with you all! This is my second game, so hopefully it all pans out well enough for me. No votes from me yet, but I’m sure we’ll figure something out soon enough.

[AnimatedWiz]

My first game featured a quickhammer D1, so I’m a bit reluctant to throw out a vote super early (since I was the first to vote for that person). I respect the suspicion, though.

[AnimatedWiz]

I think that, even if not against the rules, it sort of defeats the spirit of the game, right? It means we can’t really analyze what you say because it might not be you who saying it (and means we can’t find any tells or read you easily, which sucks for everyone).

[AnimatedWiz]

My first game featured a quickhammer D1, so I’m a bit reluctant to throw out a vote super early (since I was the first to vote for that person). I respect the suspicion, though.

I mean, my issue is more your post reads as nervous scum to post, like, no thoughts on anything else posted?
it's like, your post just feels a lot more like an awkward scum entrance than towny one, I understand not wanting to vote, but like, you're putting more focus on why you're not voting, implying you wanna wait forever to vote, and based on your posts so far, you're putting more focus on "I don't wanna vote" than "I think my reads are this"

which is why I think you're scum, idk what charles is doing, but it feels like scum trying to pull attention away from a partner, so that's how I SR you both (you're the stronger sr) and the 2 voting you are my town leans cause that was honestly my reaction

That explains a lot, actually—thank you for explaining it to me. I, uh, can see the reasoning if I look at the post from someone who isn’t in my head with my thoughts.

I don’t really have any reads aside from a slight townread on you, to be honest.

[AnimatedWiz]

I want the protective role to aim elsewhere.

Wifom mafia scum, wifom…

Do you think the scum would go for you and risk not getting a nightkill off, or do you think they’d go for someone unexpected and hope they get a power role? Obviously, lots of WIFOM here, but I’ve never played with an Innocent Child before and I’m not sure what the meta is around them.

[AnimatedWiz]

I want the protective role to aim elsewhere.

Wifom mafia scum, wifom…

Do you think the scum would go for you and risk not getting a nightkill off, or do you think they’d go for someone unexpected and hope they get a power role? Obviously, lots of WIFOM here, but I’ve never played with an Innocent Child before and I’m not sure what the meta is around them.

what are you hoping to learn/achieve by asking Generic this?

I just want to know more about how the meta works here, to be frank—Generic seems like a possible town leader and I don’t want to lose them early if we don’t have to, but I don’t know if we’re really at risk of that either. I think I’m just a bit lost and asking the wrong questions, maybe?

[AnimatedWiz]

And, uh, Generic is being really confusing with their vague posts here, so that’s adding to the lack of understanding for me. I’m sure it all is breadcrumbs or something, but I just feel like I’m following the trail the wrong way.

[AnimatedWiz]

I mean, she’s only had two posts both involving me, so I don’t think I have too much to go off of, but I feel like I can trust her somewhat?

She did explain her reasoning to me despite having also voted for me, which makes me feel like she isn’t just trying to shuffle us to an immediate elimination. Again, not enough to be concrete, but it’s something.

What do you think of her, Dann?

[AnimatedWiz]

Compared to my only other game here, there’s a lot more talking already, so I wouldn’t say it’s too slow? About half of us are talking a lot so far and I’m sure that when the others speak on how they read our currently conversations we’ll have way more to go off of.

[AnimatedWiz]

I agree on Bob, but I think my read might be somewhat biased due to them defending me.

[AnimatedWiz]

I liked 102, that seemed like it comes from town

meh. i guess we are looking at it differently. to me it felt kinda diplomatic and fence-sitty

I definitely see it as being diplomatic, but I feel like gumi actually did pick a side, which was that the argument was probably town vs. town. At least, that’s what I interpreted from it, anyway.

[AnimatedWiz]

his one post 102 actually pinged me. this seems like a really easy spot for scum to chime in and try to pocket you

That's fair. I was just getting town vibes from both Andante and Bob and didn't want their argument to escalate into a mislim when it was more caused by playstyle differences than anything else. I do think Andante's town read on me was a bit hasty, though.

I, uh, didn’t read this before I made my previous post.

[AnimatedWiz]

I think Andante seems a bit forced at the moment.

Hm... I feel like Andante is overzealous, but has decent base-level reasons for her behavior—she wants to generate talk and reads, but I think she's definitely forcing these a bit too early with creating connections between people on scant evidence. Could be really useful later on when we have more information to work off of later on though, so I think it's just a case of townie behavior at a somewhat inappropriate time, y'know?

[AnimatedWiz]

Ani did you get a reply from Dann on this 61. you didn't. is it important, well surely you asked a question it wasn't answered. Did you loss track of it? probably as Black actually picked it up for you and asked Dann for you...?

Since Dann didn’t post at all until about a day after I asked, I didn’t have too much of a chance to follow-up before someone else did that for me—I don’t think it really says anything about Dann other than that they answered promptly when asked for clarification.

[AnimatedWiz]

I mean, I guess you could say that, but I don’t feel like Dann has been skirting around giving other reads at all, so I doubt this was a case of that either. He’s likely just trying to figure out what everyone else is thinking of her—or at least, that’s my interpretation.

[AnimatedWiz]

Oh, I think you misunderstood me—Dannflor is seeing what everyone thinks of

Andante

, not himself. I think it’s to use later to see how votes or opinions might change.

P.S. I also forgot to say, but in my game with Hu Tao, they were just like that and they were town—a bit less talkative but they had a lot of substance and didn’t rush if they didn’t need to. I don’t think we can read too much into them based on that.

[AnimatedWiz]

Oh, thanks for reminding me! Uh, let’s see… he seems shrewd, and like he’s making a decent readlist in his head. I personally would like to hear it, but I get the feeling that it’ll come later D1 or D2 (and will probably be great then but need that time to be completed). I townread him personally, but it’s only at a moderate strength right now.

[AnimatedWiz]

I’m also not a fan of how short Charles’s answers are—just going to put this here to document my feelings for now.

VOTE: Charles510

[AnimatedWiz]

I’m going to keep my vote on Charles for now—I admit that reaction wasn’t what I expected, but I feel like I should just keep my eye on him anyway.

[AnimatedWiz]

I’m going to keep my vote on Charles for now—I admit that reaction wasn’t what I expected, but I feel like I should just keep my eye on him anyway.

Any thoughts on Gumiguy?

I think Gumi fits in a similar category as Charles and Shrek—not a lot of anything posted here. The main reason I went for Charles over the others is that he immediately responded to someone talking about him and only said, “yes.” The other two seem to just not be on much, but that behavior makes me think he’s on but just watching, which is more suspicious?

[AnimatedWiz]

I’m also not a fan of how short Charles’s answers are—just going to put this here to document my feelings for now.

VOTE: Charles510

I’m going to keep my vote on Charles for now—I admit that reaction wasn’t what I expected, but I feel like I should just keep my eye on him anyway.

voting charles now? not earlier?? really feels like you're just trying to play it safe here

Bestie, Blackstar literally voted within a minute of me doing so—clearly the behavior was suspicious to multiple people if that’s the case. You seem to really not trust me, which is whatever, but I really feel like you’re grasping at straws for this one.

If I wanted to play it safe, I would just announce I’m sheeping or just not talk at all. It’s fine if you scumread me and others, but I really don’t think leaping to associations between us this early is going to be useful.

[AnimatedWiz]

I’m going to keep my vote on Charles for now—I admit that reaction wasn’t what I expected, but I feel like I should just keep my eye on him anyway.

Any thoughts on Gumiguy?

I think Gumi fits in a similar category as Charles and Shrek—not a lot of anything posted here. The main reason I went for Charles over the others is that he immediately responded to someone talking about him and only said, “yes.” The other two seem to just not be on much, but that behavior makes me think he’s on but just watching, which is more suspicious?

I mean in Charles's defense, the question was "do you find everyone null?". If he's town and this is true, "yes" feels like an appropriate response. It seems like you are dogging Charles for this without considering the context

That’s fair—I think the sheeping comment earlier might have made me a bit more suspicious of him, but I suppose he really was just asked a yes-or-no question. I should stay more mindful that I’m not tunneling on him, but I feel I’ll need to see more from him to remove my vote.

[AnimatedWiz]

It feels a bit frustrating—when I say I’m not going to vote someone just yet, it’s being fence-sitty and suspicious, but when I finally do vote someone and explain why, it’s too aggressive and suspicious. I know it’s probably just how D1s go, but I feel like I’m just out of sync or something.

[AnimatedWiz]

If you isolate Blackstar’s posts, it is almost entirely just three things:

1. Talking with Charles.
2. Scumreading Andante.
3. Defending himself… a lot.

I don’t know if this is the most convincing evidence we’ve ever had D1, but his posts are rather limited in scope and that’s rather telling, I think. If we talk a few days more we can probably see if that trend continues or not—I’m inclined to vote for him if it stays similar, but it’s only been about two and half days since we started.

[AnimatedWiz]

charles is the definition of low hanging fruit

And yet nobody else really seems bothered by him

A lot of us have voted for him in the past, but he passed most people's vibe checks after that happened—trust me, several of us were bothered by him earlier.

[AnimatedWiz]

Actually, you do bring up a good point, though:

Bright, what do you think of BlackStar now? You haven't said anything about him since 63, and I'd like to hear from you more.

[AnimatedWiz]

A lot of us have voted for him in the past, but he passed most people's vibe checks after that happened—trust me, several of us were bothered by him earlier.

If he’s passed the vibe check and you’re not bothered by him anymore, why is your vote still parked on him?

I didn’t mean to say he’s passed my vibe check, just that he’s passed most other people’s—sorry for the confusion.

[AnimatedWiz]

If you isolate Blackstar’s posts, it is almost entirely just three things:

1. Talking with Charles.
2. Scumreading Andante.
3. Defending himself… a lot.

I don’t know if this is the most convincing evidence we’ve ever had D1, but his posts are rather limited in scope and that’s rather telling, I think. If we talk a few days more we can probably see if that trend continues or not—I’m inclined to vote for him if it stays similar, but it’s only been about two and half days since we started.

This post gives me weird vibes. First of all I don't really think defending yourself is inherently scummy. I think certain town players are inclined to defend themselves against every wrong push. That's not really what's weird here though. It's the last part:

I’m inclined to vote for him if it stays similar, but it’s only been about two and half days since we started.

What is the point of saying this? You're basically letting BlackStar know "hey, this is kinda scummy, and I'm gonna vote for you unless you do other stuff". And two posts later BlackStar posted a long reads list. How do we know if that was natural or if he's just trying to avoid your vote? What's keeping you from voting BlackStar here when you've pretty much moved on from Charles in your mind?

I was hoping that saying what I did would make him say other stuff for me to analyze, natural or not—which he did. I’m not fully moved on from Charles, and I’m not fully aboard on the BlackStar train either, but I figured that if I could pressure him to say more it would help me make a decision.

It seems like what he said was telling enough for a few of y’all to have your suspicions furthered, so I think it worked well.

[AnimatedWiz]

To be completely honest, I’m not much of a player who actually knows how to do, like, gambits, so I tried to do a very low-stakes one right there. I would say it worked, but I think the main drawback I didn’t consider is that gambits tend to make people suspicious of you for not being straightforward—which seems kind of silly for me to forget, considering I usually tend to think the same upon reflection.

I, uh, totally get the clashing reads though—if you have any more questions for me that might help clarify, I’m happy to answer them.

[AnimatedWiz]

This post gives me weird vibes. First of all I don't really think defending yourself is inherently scummy. I think certain town players are inclined to defend themselves against every wrong push.

Also, missed this upon my first read-through, but I wasn’t stressing that it was weird that he was defending himself—I was saying it was weird how he was mostly doing that and not other things, since a lot of other people had been suspected by that point but he had only really harped on Andante out of everyone available.

[AnimatedWiz]

Charles, do you have anyone you’re particularly suspicious of right now? I know you voted for me earlier based on Generic’s read, but I’d like to hear if that’s still the case or someone else is on your mind.

[AnimatedWiz]

there's literally 3 in the scum team, with good partners charles really doesn't have to do much

To be fair, with how many new and returning players there are this game, it’s not impossible for there to be multiple inexperienced people on the scumteam, or even for all of them to be.

Means we can’t only assume a newscum would be coached.

[AnimatedWiz]

Andante what are your current thoughts on Annie?

I already said I'm giving Animated a d1 pass, I'm limming in you/charles/ possibly dann

I mean, I’m not complaining, but why do I get a pass? I don’t understand the reasoning here (not that it’s necessarily wrong or bad, but I just am having trouble figuring out why).

[AnimatedWiz]

there's literally 3 in the scum team, with good partners charles really doesn't have to do much

To be fair, with how many new and returning players there are this game, it’s not impossible for there to be multiple inexperienced people on the scumteam, or even for all of them to be.

Means we can’t only assume a newscum would be coached.

So hang on here, I don't even believe charles is actually new, but this post is like... basically saying someone is coaching in the scum pt... and there's only 3 people here with access to it

No, I’m responding to previous mentions of possible newscum and coaching—this was just the most recent example, but I can link more later if you want if you give me a minute.

[AnimatedWiz]

actually.... bug.. has done NOTHING since that readslist... yeah I'll put bug as the #1 person I wanna yeet here

Is it possible that any of them will get more active during the weekend due to having free time then?

[AnimatedWiz]

Ah, I quoted the wrong post—I meant to quote 345.

[AnimatedWiz]

That’s rather possible, but I think Shrek is the most suspicious out of that group. Their only “real” posts (43 and 95) seem to have analysis, but ultimately both just say certain people

could

be town and in doing so try to take heat off certain people (me, Andante, Charles, and Bob). It comes off as rather weak and wishy-washy, even in my opinion.

VOTE: Shrek

[AnimatedWiz]

Ah, well, there goes my argument.

UNVOTE: Shrek

[AnimatedWiz]

[quote=AnimatedWiz post_id=13920769 post_num=358 time=<a href="tel:1695316314" style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">1695316314</a> user_id=37201]
That’s rather possible, but I think Shrek is the most suspicious out of that group. Their only “real” posts (43 and 95) seem to have analysis, but ultimately both just say certain people

could

be town and in doing so try to take heat off certain people (me, Andante, Charles, and Bob). It comes off as rather weak and wishy-washy, even in my opinion.

VOTE: Shrek

I'm a tad confused on this... like, you saw shrek was getting prodded, and at that point you just wait for them to return and go from there??
[/quote]


The prod just made me think about how little they had posted here (since it had necessarily been around 48 hours since their most recent post), which is why I went back to look at their posts in isolation and saw how few there were. I already thought them suspicious for their lack of content, so it just strengthened my thoughts on the matter.

[AnimatedWiz]

Ugh, seems I messed up a quote again.

[AnimatedWiz]

I still kind of do, mostly based on the previous sheeping and a significant amount of your posts just being you responding quickly to people who ask you questions. The read has softened a bit over time (since others have brought up reasonable arguments about it and your reactions haven’t been as suspicious now), but it’s not yet to a nullread.

[AnimatedWiz]

Ah, well, there goes my argument.

UNVOTE: Shrek

What did you mean by this? And why did you unvote?

Well, I figured that Shrek being so quiet meant they were actively trying to lurk and go under the radar, but since they then replaced right after it became clear to me that it was much more likely that they legitimately didn’t have time for the game instead.

[AnimatedWiz]

Who, if anyone else, are you also reading as scummy? What is the most probable scum team?

My current best scumreads are on Bug and Gumi since they’ve been so quiet. Blackstar makes me feel suspicious since they seem to be really keen to move the main wagon onto me, but I’m still unsure about whether that’s just plain desperation or an actual scumread on me.

I’m more confident in my townreads, especially Black, Hu Tao, and Dann. They seem to have a lot of logical thoughts and communicate them really well, which I feel would be hard for scum to do so consistently.

[AnimatedWiz]

Who, if anyone else, are you also reading as scummy? What is the most probable scum team?

My current best scumreads are on Bug and Gumi since they’ve been so quiet. Blackstar makes me feel suspicious since they seem to be really keen to move the main wagon onto me, but I’m still unsure about whether that’s just plain desperation or an actual scumread on me.

I’m more confident in my townreads, especially Black, Hu Tao, and Dann. They seem to have a lot of logical thoughts and communicate them really well, which I feel would be hard for scum to do so consistently.

so, you think that scum are more likely to be inactive than town? That's not been my experience, it's pretty NAI to me. What are your reads on some of the more active players?

I've only been in one game so far, and in that one the quieter players have been scum, generally—that's my only experience here.

Um, for other active reads, let's see...

Andante is, uh, kind of the most zealous scumhunter I've ever played with. She's really aggressive about going for the people she doesn't trust, and yet I feel like she really is just a townie with a lot of fervor. Hu Tao says she was like this in the past, so from I can tell it's not too worrying as long as she actually gets good reads.

Afrayed is... hard to understand, which I think everyone else has been feeling as well, from what I can tell. Personally, slight scumread, but I honestly should just ask them about their thoughts so that I can get more information to base a read on. Their late start means I have to go off of, after all.

Oh, and I like that you're pretty active and seem to be presenting strong reads, so I have a very tentative townread on you for now... but the activity could be an attempt to keep attention off your spot, since I voted on it earlier for inactivity. I need to keep that possibility in mind for the future.

[AnimatedWiz]

Also, I feel like someone asked me a question a bit earlier but I can't seem find it? I'll have to go digging some more and see where it is.

[AnimatedWiz]

Just so this question doesn't get lost like some of my other ones from earlier (like 256), I'll quote for attention.

Afrayed, are you still scumreading Charles? Is there anyone else who you feel you've gotten a real read on since you were on last?

[AnimatedWiz]

Ah, well, there goes my argument.

UNVOTE: Shrek

Why the unvote? Why the vote on inactivity at all?

Found it!

Pretty much as I said to Merlyn earlier, my only other game had really quiet scum, so I extrapolated that to here—I thought it was a possibility that Shrek was trying to dodge any attention to not get suspected.

[AnimatedWiz]

Yeah, right after I voted on them, too.

[AnimatedWiz]

Oh, I wasn’t saying they left because I voted on them—them leaving so soon after a prod made me reorder the likeliest reasons for being quiet, actually! Just kind of funny how weird my timing seems to be this game.

[AnimatedWiz]

Dannflor: null
Hu Tao: null
Andante: null

These are just gut reactions without supporting evidence. Feel free to ask me why I read any particular way.

Personally interested in these three reads, since I read them as town.

[AnimatedWiz]

Charles, you play such an unconventional game—I think that’s why I have such a hard time getting a truly good and solid read on you. I think it’s likely honest and maybe not fully intentional at this point, but it hurts my head to try to get you figured out.

[AnimatedWiz]

Also, I'm taking a trip to Fallingbrook this weekend for my anniversary, so I'll be here infrequently during the next few days—I'll still respond to questions and everything, but the responses will just be somewhat delayed.

[AnimatedWiz]

Spoiler:

black can you go into your town!Merlyn read

I think it's more likely that a townie forgets about the game and replaces out, and I've liked everything Merlyn has done since she replaced in

what has merlyn done exactly that is towny

i think saying they've skimmed the game already but not offering any reads or gut thoughts on players upon replacing in is not a good look

I also don't really follow the reasoning about why a townie would be more likely to forget about a game, in my experience scum are empirically more likely to flake out of games

It's mostly vibes. I think she's being inquisitive and she has a soft tone that comes across as reasonable. I'm getting the feeling that she's trying to solve the game

Regarding town/scum replacing out, we must have completely different experiences here

I think it’s worth noting that Dann’s been playing since 2013 and you and I only started in the last year or so—it could be that in the past scum tended to replace out more than town and that trend might have changed recently. That, or we just don’t have enough of a sample size, I think?

[AnimatedWiz]

im not getting upset but i am trying to poke wagonomics to see how it responds. Plus multi tasking do a mock/revision while doing some mafiscum posting

I reread this three times and I don’t know what this means—care to explain for someone hard-blanking?

[AnimatedWiz]

Hmm we need to come to consensus soon..

Hm, as much time as four days seems right now, I think you're right—with how slow we've all been to build truly sizeable wagons, we might find ourselves having to suddenly hammer someone a few hours before the end of Day 1 if we're not careful.

As much as I like not being up for elimination, I'm curious as to why Bob and Afrayed are now claiming to believe both me and Blackstar are town? With how long it's taken to get to just 4-5 votes on each wagon, I suppose the logic about scum being hesitant/split could make sense, but at the same I would think it more likely they'd be more active in trying to consolidate their votes to get rid of someone who was town—I guess what I'm saying is, it feels more likely to me that the Blackstar or I is scum and the scumteam is trying to not have to bus a teammate this early.

I suppose that train of thought would mean that Bob and Afrayed could be scum, and I guess Blackstar or I (or even both) would be as well. I definitely trust Bob the most out of the three, so I think it would more likely be Afrayed and Blackstar in opinion. Again, this logic might not be the case, and I would love to hear what they say about my theory.

But, uh, acting on that logic (and to avoid a panic vote in the final hours of Day 1), VOTE: Blackstar.

[AnimatedWiz]

There are a few things about this post that are bothering me but for now I’ll just focus on the biggest thing, which I bolded. Neither Bob or Afrayed are on either of our wagons right now. If you were just talking about the scum team being split on our wagons, then why would you leap to the conclusion that those guys must be scum?

I think you misunderstood me. Specifically, I’m saying their argument about scum being split on our wagons

doesn’t

seem likely to me—it wouldn’t really make sense for scum to be split on our wagons if we were both town.

I instead feel it’s more likely that you or I are scum, and that the scumteam is trying to avoid voting to prevent a teammate from being eliminated—even voting the other person could still put heat on the other if they flip as town.

Again, this is not the only possibility, but I feel it’s one of the most plausible.

[AnimatedWiz]

I think you misunderstood me. Specifically, I’m saying their argument about scum being split on our wagons doesn’t seem likely to me—it wouldn’t really make sense for scum to be split on our wagons if we were both town.

I don't agree with this, when I look back at wagons after a game is over I don't usually see scum piled all on one wagon. I don't usually follow my partner onto wagons when I'm the scum either.

Hm, I admit my lack of experience with this meta—in meatworld, I find scum tend to vote together very often to eliminate other players, though that may be a result of how those games tend to be formatted. Perhaps my theory might not be as applicable to forum mafia as I thought.

The timing of your vote just feels like you thought Hu Tao gave you a good opening to finally jump on my wagon.

Hu Tao’s post definitely was the final reason I thought of this—it struck me as odd that people were starting to be more vocally against voting me or you as soon as I saw the posts, but I didn’t fully think of how odd it was until I realized we had less than half our time left.

[AnimatedWiz]

i do think bug is the better lim here though, at the very least yall need to pressure bug

hey bug, can we get an updated readslist?

Quoted for attention.

[AnimatedWiz]

Spoiler:

i do think bug is the better lim here though, at the very least yall need to pressure bug

hey bug, can we get an updated readslist?

Quoted for attention.

“for attention”
I don’t get it?

Oh, if bug doesn’t have the thread bookmarked, this way they will still get a notification from their post being quoted—means there’s a lower chance it’ll get missed in the shuffle.

[AnimatedWiz]

I wasn’t attempting to say that was an updated readlist at all—my apologies for the confusion.

[AnimatedWiz]

I am, uh, unsure about Blackstar currently. It seems like my previous theory might not be a reasonable possibility considering how multiple people responded (AKA I was wrong), and also Blackstar seemed to be extremely willing to scuttle himself as soon as any sort of pressure was applied, which I think would be rather odd for scum on D1. So, I feel significantly less comfortable with keeping my vote on him since it seems like he’s just a really upset townie—I townread him for now, though this could be an emotional ploy of some sort? Feels rather genuine, though.

On the other hand, I still feel like Afrayed is rather suspicious to me, as I mentioned in my earlier theory—it was weird then how they were explicitly against both main wagons. Instead, they’ve been just on and on about scumreading Charles, who to me just seems like the most eccentric, most lost townie I’ve ever played with—and, to an extent, I get it, since I did the same thing for a while there. I just wish they’d talk about their own viewpoints instead of asking others—at a certain point, it starts to feel rather, uh, falsely participatory, if that makes sense? Like they’re making themselves prominent in conversation to not be seen as hiding, but also not saying anything too notable to not have to take a hard position?

I, uh, thirdly am just going to say I’m being practical—the wind is clearly shifting away from a Blackstar elimination, and Afrayed doesn’t sound like a bad choice here (personally, it sounds even better at this point).

So, uh, VOTE: Afrayed Knott.

[AnimatedWiz]

Which gives me 5 scum reads. meh

So, you scumread:
Merlyn
Andante
Charles
Dann
Bug

Is that correct? I just want to make sure I’m following you properly.

[AnimatedWiz]

Thanks for clarifying—which 2 are reactive?

[AnimatedWiz]

Okay, gotcha.

P.S. I, um, I know that I scumread you, but like… whatever role you are, please don’t give up. You’re the second person to vote themselves so far and I really don’t want the game to go down like this.

[AnimatedWiz]

Okay, gotcha.

P.S. I, um, I know that I scumread you, but like… whatever role you are, please don’t give up. You’re the second person to vote themselves so far and I really don’t want the game to go down like this.

I appreciate the honesty, but it seems a good move. I am the lead wagon and it helps focus town on what we should be doing, and that's finding scum. I bet you are relived your wagon dissipated, but why do you think those on it found you scummy?

Well, I think it was my inability to really figure anyone out too heavily, which lead to me being very open about my unwillingness to vote early. Upon looking back, it's kind of obvious that it looks scummy, or at least rather unhelpful, and I continued to be really hesitant to condemn anyone for a while after. I don't think it's unfair for me to be a wagon as a result of that, though of course I'm not the biggest fan of the whole concept.

[AnimatedWiz]

Sorry double post. I think it might be my internet connection glitching

It happens to everyone on the forum from time-to-time—no worries!

[AnimatedWiz]

it was weird then how they were explicitly against both main wagons

you are misrepping here, I have not said I am against any of the wagons that were on Ani/wiz or Blackstar. I just asked why the wagons were there. rather poor attack tbf

You know what, I did look back at your posts to check if I was wrong, and technically the phrasing was not explicit—you did imply that you were against the wagons because you were questioning why people were on them, and in 552 you also did say that you agreed with Bob when he said that he thought the wagons were both on townies. So I’m incorrect about it being explicit, but it’s rather implicit in my opinion.

[AnimatedWiz]

Afrayed is... hard to understand, which I think everyone else has been feeling as well, from what I can tell. Personally, slight scumread.

I suppose that train of thought would mean that Bob and Afrayed could be scum, and I guess Blackstar or I (or even both) would be as well. I definitely trust Bob the most out of the three, so I think it would more likely be Afrayed and Blackstar in opinion. Again, this logic might not be the case, and I would love to hear what they say about my theory.

I’ve been consistent about scumreading you before I actually voted for you, Afrayed.

Additionally, changing wagons from one of your scumreads to another isn’t a negative thing, since it’s just being practical—keeping my vote on Blackstar might divide the votes unnecessarily at this point.

[AnimatedWiz]

I’ve been consistent about scumreading you before I actually voted for you, Afrayed.

So why didn't you put your vote on me earlier. I'm drawing similarities between you and Dann to the reasons used to place my vote, you initially say I am hard to understand then you state that

In the full version of second of my posts I quoted (558), I explicitly state my reasoning for voting Blackstar over you—my theory then hinged on Blackstar being scum. Since my theory has been stated to probably not be right based on others’ experience, my vote has changed to someone else who I scumread.

Additionally, there were far more votes on Blackstar than on you at that point, so I thought it more effective to go with the easier elimination out of the two of you. Again, being practical.

[AnimatedWiz]

know what, I'm ending the day, maybe yall can think about this game overnight or something. if this flips scum like I think it will, bob's reaction to hammering this was scummy

VOTE: Afrayed

Like, I could come for Andante about waiting less than 20 minutes for people to talk before hammering Afrayed…

But Hu Tao, Black, Dann, and I

also

voted for them—she was just the last on a train we all were on. We really can’t come for Andante about hammering, and I think actually piling on this wagon is kind of scummy if the best reasoning is, “hammered someone you also voted for near the end of D1.”

[AnimatedWiz]

know what, I'm ending the day, maybe yall can think about this game overnight or something. if this flips scum like I think it will, bob's reaction to hammering this was scummy

VOTE: Afrayed

Like, I could come for Andante about waiting less than 20 minutes for people to talk before hammering Afrayed…

But Hu Tao, Black, Dann, and I

also

voted for them—she was just the last on a train we all were on. We really can’t come for Andante about hammering, and I think actually piling on this wagon is kind of scummy if the best reasoning is, “hammered someone you also voted for near the end of D1.”

Is there anyone on the wagon in particular you think is scummy then?

You forgot me btw

I was explicitly calling out the people who just voted for Andante but also were on the Afrayed wagon—you didn’t vote for her, so you weren’t included in that list.

Oh, and to answer your question, while Blackstar is still scummy to me (the vote then immediate unvote with the excuse of, “oh it would be funny” did nothing to help my view of him), I’m not a fan of my biggest townreads (Dann and Hu Tao) immediately jumping on her either.

And why have multiple people voted for Hu Tao? I get you doing it, Merlyn, but the rest of this wagon just voted

with

Hu Tao against Andante? It’s like y’all’re bending to any stiff breeze that blows in your direction.

[AnimatedWiz]

(and heads up Blackstar is a 'he'. Black is a 'she' though! It's a game filled with Blacks)

Oh, I appreciate the notice! I don’t think I used the wrong pronouns in my last message, though? I used “him” for Blackstar and never referred to Black.

[AnimatedWiz]

(and heads up Blackstar is a 'he'. Black is a 'she' though! It's a game filled with Blacks)

Oh, I appreciate the notice! I don’t think I used the wrong pronouns in my last message, though? I used “him” for Blackstar and never referred to Black.

Oh, I realize what you mean now! The her at the end of the second paragraph was referring to Andante!

[AnimatedWiz]

Annie why are Dann and Hu Tao your biggest townreads?

In my last game, Hu Tao was town and acted like this—a bit close to the chest at first but was willing to ask questions and take a stand. For D1, they were like that—they didn’t always explain everything immediately, but usually everything made sense and that consistency is a bit hard to take.

Dann’s different, since I’ve never played with him. He’s asking a lot of questions and seems to be be communicative despite saying he’s trying to be not too active—and I don’t think he was lying when he said he really is trying a new method of play. Mostly, this is just intuition, but he really just feels he’s just getting a bunch of information now and it’ll all unfold into some master trap he caught scum in later.

[AnimatedWiz]

*fake.

[AnimatedWiz]

brightbluebug, gumiguy, and bob3141

there's genuinely no way that is the entire team... I'd only believe it if I saw it

Why is this so hard to believe?

I would think it odd that neither of the 3 main wagons yesterday were scum

and

that none of the big pushers for those wagons were scum either… though I suppose with two new players it’s not impossible?

[AnimatedWiz]

I really am townreading you, Andante, but I feel like you’re barking up the wrong tree again. Sure, Bob had some scummy stuff going on at the end of D1, but I don’t feel like the evidence is as damming for him as it is for other people.

Are we still going to ignore that fact that multiple people flip-flopped on their votes immediately on D2? I feel like Blackstar is still the better elimination here due to both that and D1.

VOTE: Blackstar

[AnimatedWiz]

UNVOTE:
we ain't going to night beofre I'm back!

I would really hope we don’t go to N2 with only 24 hours in D2—can’t we get a little more info on everyone before we eliminate?

[AnimatedWiz]

oh

at least mine and and blackstar’s were mostly because it was funny / for reaction

I think hu tao was trying to get a specific reaction too

I think the flip flops are townier than not but i am speaking as a flip flopper

I mean, I get flip flopping early during D1, like I did, but I really think doing it on the start of D2 like y’all did isn’t a good look—because it could easily just be that you do it to attempt to get a quick elimination before anyone can really know what’s going on, then claim it was to be funny as soon as people catch wind and react negatively.

[AnimatedWiz]

I… I guess that’s fair. I could go through a bunch of WIFOM about the idea, but you’re right—the basic outcome is that making yourself LHF is a bit too risky, and the plan is a little too out there to work a lot of the time.

[AnimatedWiz]

I still am not really on board about the Bob wagon, though—I really do feel like it’s town trying to eliminate town, in my opinion. I feel like during the first half of D1 Bob was rather active and asking good questions, and it balances out some of the other stuff later on.

[AnimatedWiz]

in what world is black role fishing

What is role-fishing? Is it like trying to find out someone’s role without making it obvious?

[AnimatedWiz]

Thats a sizeable pool of confirmed townies

P: the reasons I protected you had nothing to do with your reads. reads can be _a_ reason to kill somebody, but just 1 of many.

As much as I do believe that Black is town, I don’t think we can say for certain that your night action stopped the kill—there might be a Roleblocker or Rolestopper, or even a Jailor or something. Could even be that there wasn’t an NK attempt (though honestly, I don’t think there’s an actual reason to avoid NKing N1 as far as I can think of).

[AnimatedWiz]

Thats a sizeable pool of confirmed townies

P: the reasons I protected you had nothing to do with your reads. reads can be _a_ reason to kill somebody, but just 1 of many.

As much as I do believe that Black is town, I don’t think we can say for certain that your night action stopped the kill—there might be a Roleblocker or Rolestopper, or even a Jailor or something. Could even be that there wasn’t an NK attempt (though honestly, I don’t think there’s an actual reason to avoid NKing N1 as far as I can think of).

Funny you say this because while I agree with you, I also think you're someone that might have wanted me dead N1. I think your attempt to sow doubt here could be scum motivated

I mean, I personally would think that someone who accepted being announced as confirmed innocent when they weren’t actually confirmed is far more suspicious that the person calling that out as incorrect.

[AnimatedWiz]

Thats a sizeable pool of confirmed townies

P: the reasons I protected you had nothing to do with your reads. reads can be _a_ reason to kill somebody, but just 1 of many.

As much as I do believe that Black is town, I don’t think we can say for certain that your night action stopped the kill—there might be a Roleblocker or Rolestopper, or even a Jailor or something. Could even be that there wasn’t an NK attempt (though honestly, I don’t think there’s an actual reason to avoid NKing N1 as far as I can think of).

if something other than protective blocked the kill then someone would have come out with a guilty

I would think it’s the same logic as earlier—you can roleblock the wrong person and another protector can protect the right person and then there would be no NK. It would be silly to automatically think you were the one to stop the nightkill unless you knew you were the only one with any abilities that can do so.

[AnimatedWiz]

That’s fair, I suppose—50/50 is better than, what, 25/75? Twice as better, actually. I see the point you’re making.

[AnimatedWiz]

If it's so suspicious then why do you still think I'm town?

As I said about Bob earlier, you did a lot of solving and asked good questions D1. I feel like that balances out being scummy today enough to wear I still townread you—not as strongly though.

[AnimatedWiz]

Hey, I’ll be real honest—I think I might have missed something about the case on Merlyn?

From what I understand, she was early on the Afrayed train and has been weird and attacking who we now know are likely Townies, right?

Is there anything else here that I’m missing aside from that? I want to make sure I’m fully updated before I cast my vote—information is key, after all.

[AnimatedWiz]

Hey, I’ll be real honest—I think I might have missed something about the case on Merlyn?

From what I understand, she was early on the Afrayed train and has been weird and attacking who we now know are likely Townies, right?

Is there anything else here that I’m missing aside from that? I want to make sure I’m fully updated before I cast my vote—information is key, after all.

whats your opinion on them though?

cant tell if your trying to diffuse/defend meryl or angle onto the wagon

D1, I was rather keen about her, since she came in and starting talking a lot more than her predecessor and made good points in general, which in hindsight isn’t the most pressing evidence.

D2, not as much—she was major leader on the Afrayed train, and was rather antagonistic towards you before your identity as a Town Cop came out. I wouldn’t scumread her more than BlackStar, but at this point she’s a light scumread. It seems like a lot of people are scumreading her far more, and I’m not sure why—that’s why I asked, because I feel like I’m missing something that would cause that intensification.

[AnimatedWiz]

Hey, I’ll be real honest—I think I might have missed something about the case on Merlyn?

From what I understand, she was early on the Afrayed train and has been weird and attacking who we now know are likely Townies, right?

Is there anything else here that I’m missing aside from that? I want to make sure I’m fully updated before I cast my vote—information is key, after all.

whats your opinion on them though?

cant tell if your trying to diffuse/defend meryl or angle onto the wagon

D1, I was rather keen about her, since she came in and starting talking a lot more than her predecessor and made good points in general, which in hindsight isn’t the most pressing evidence.

D2, not as much—she was major leader on the Afrayed train, and was rather antagonistic towards you before your identity as a Town Cop came out. I wouldn’t scumread her more than BlackStar, but at this point she’s a light scumread. It seems like a lot of people are scumreading her far more, and I’m not sure why—that’s why I asked, because I feel like I’m missing something that would cause that intensification.

Pisskop is conf town. Black and Hu Tao have been potentially cleared as town. Bob claimed cop. Andante and Dannflor have acted very townie.

So that leaves Merlyn, Bug, Gumiguy, Charles, and you as people who could be scum.

Out of the potential candidates for scum, only you and Merlyn were on Afrayed's wagon when it got hammered, so that's one of the reasons why people are focused on her right now.

Ah, that‘s what I was missing—thank you. I suppose it’s not unreasonable to assume that at least one person on that wagon was scum—and based on my current reads and all these potential clears, the scummiest of the wagon is Merlyn.

VOTE: Merlyn

[AnimatedWiz]

be honest this just feels like fence sitting.

Day one point- defense of meryl

day two point - light scum read but in it you say another is more scummy. you also claim light scum read while at same time saying there is no reason for others to scum read


why mention blackstar in question about another?

I never claimed there was no reason for others to scumread—I stated that I felt like I was missing evidence that explained why y’all were so focused on her. BlackStar provided that evidence (of her being one of the few not widely townread players on the Afrayed wagon), which explained the situation and convinced me of her being a better vote target for me.

I included BlackStar as a reference point for how I would scumread her—she wasn’t my #1 scumread at that point, and I was trying to explain that by including the comparison.

[AnimatedWiz]

You found bob's freakout at black to be a reasonable thing? Bc I very much didn't

reasonable? No

Towny? Very much so

Personally, I think the suddenness of the claim is understandable if they really are a macho cop—Bob's probably so terrified of dying before they can reveal their results that they're a bit paranoid now, and thus they grossly misinterpreted Black's pressure as demanding them to reveal results when that happened. At least, that's my interpretation?

[AnimatedWiz]

I think, out of the two of them, eliminating Merlyn is the better choice—we have more evidence to go off of for her, after all.

[AnimatedWiz]

Um, welcome Gob! Let us know when you catch up so we can ask you about your reads and everything.

[AnimatedWiz]

Yooo Wiz is here. You can finally see a Town game of mine ahaha

Here’s hoping this one goes a lot better than the last one.

[AnimatedWiz]

We just finished a game where at the final LimLo I was the hammering vote against Jackson, after we both had been very frustrated during the entire game. Hoping this one ends with both us having a much better time.

[AnimatedWiz]

I don't like that post

Which one?

[AnimatedWiz]

Ah, thank you for explaining, Dann. Which part(s) make you wary?

[AnimatedWiz]

Let's let Kirby catch up

I hate to say this, but that’s Jigglypuff, not Kirby—wrong pink round Nintendo creature, bestie.

[AnimatedWiz]

you should vote someone

I'm waiting for people to answer somethngf

I think I might be missing some subtext here, but what are you asking those 4 people in 1240, exactly?

[AnimatedWiz]

Here’s the post where Afrayed was eliminated. You can look at that page and the one before it to see who was here

Okay, so, it looks like you and Bob were active in the last two pages before N1, while Charles (now Jackson) and Bug were not. Both have been sporadic posters, so I’m not sure if we can really say that it’s an intentional move on their part?

[AnimatedWiz]

1000
Also I just realised I've been playing with the assumption of two wolves but everyone else keeps bringing a group of three. Whoops

Important setup stuff that someone will inevitably neglect to read

- This game will have ten town-aligned players and three mafia-aligned players.

…I also made this mistake for the first 20 pages or so, I think.

[AnimatedWiz]

1000
Also I just realised I've been playing with the assumption of two wolves but everyone else keeps bringing a group of three. Whoops

Important setup stuff that someone will inevitably neglect to read

- This game will have ten town-aligned players and three mafia-aligned players.

…I also made this mistake for the first 20 pages or so, I think.

Considering you responded to this, I'm sure you have thoughts about my catch up I would like to tap your brain about when you have time. Bounce off what I've said, or state your read on me (I am curious where you stand on this considering I was wolf in our last game) things like that.

I probably can’t go into a bunch of detail until later today, but I will say that a lot of your final reads mirror mine—I townread Dann pretty heavily, and Bug just seems quiet and not scummy to me, but otherwise the tierlist you made seems accurate to me.

I will admit, last game you replaced into my most townread slot and did a similar style of catch-up, so I don’t want to repeat the same mistake of getting pocketed because you townread me during your catch-up… but I do feel like you’re town based on your reads and explanations for them. Charles was pretty hard to read as a rule, but near the end he felt like he was a townie playing a really weird game—so I think the townread tracks between y’all?

I also just really need to make sure that I don’t immediately scumread you because a lot of your behaviors are similar to your previous game—from what you said, you’re just like this normally and it’s not really a tell.

[AnimatedWiz]

I probably can’t go into a bunch of detail until later today, but I will say that a lot of your final reads mirror mine—I townread Dann pretty heavily, and Bug just seems quiet and not scummy to me, but otherwise the tierlist you made seems accurate to me.

I will admit, last game you replaced into my most townread slot and did a similar style of catch-up, so I don’t want to repeat the same mistake of getting pocketed because you townread me during your catch-up… but I do feel like you’re town based on your reads and explanations for them. Charles was pretty hard to read as a rule, but near the end he felt like he was a townie playing a really weird game—so I think the townread tracks between y’all?

I also just really need to make sure that I don’t immediately scumread you because a lot of your behaviors are similar to your previous game—from what you said, you’re just like this normally and it’s not really a tell.

I don't care for bug too much but could you tell me why you town-read Dann as much as you do? I'm glad you're aware that not everything I do as scum is something that's my scum-tell, I am curious though what part of my behaviour you're seeing the same just as this intrigues me

From the start of the game, I felt like Dann was trying to get information from everyone—good questions at good times, generally. When Dann explained his process being different than in the past, I figured I should trust that explanation based on the fact that I had no real reason not to, I suppose? In our previous game, I didn’t trust you when you explained your process for me (and while I was right to not trust you, that wasn’t really a valid reason for me not to do so), so I’m trying to give him a fair shake on that reasoning.

And the main thing with you is you’re coming in, giving a recap, and townreading me heavily. It could be an attempt at pocketing, but at the same time I don’t really have any reason to assume that over than you just townreading me normally—after all, asking for trust from another townie is how towncores get formed, right?

So, uh, I guess what I’m saying it’s that you have the same sort of opening, which doesn’t truly mean much, y’know? I’m just trying to give you and Dann a fair shake and taking y’all at your word when you explain your behavior—since everything makes sense to me if I examine both of y’all through a townie lens, I think it holds up?

[AnimatedWiz]

god I am so frustrated because I'm pretty sure you are both town

and we have 3 like literally outed scum and you two are going after the most inane conspiracy theory

Wait, who are the outed scum?

[AnimatedWiz]

gumiguy/gob is outed scum

merlyn and bluebug are slightly less obvious but also frozen scum

Ahh, thanks for clarifying.

[AnimatedWiz]

I really don’t see Dann as scum, y’all. BlackStar, of course I do, but Dann’s been in my top 3 townreads all game.

I really don’t see the backing off of the game’s first self-vote as scummy—even I, probably the most avid scumreader of BlackStar here, admitted that it made me wary to vote for him when it happened. There are definitely better ways for Dann to hop off that wagon if it really was scum vs scum, and he didn’t take any of those options.

[AnimatedWiz]

I have been spamming my solve for like 10 pages and people aren't listening to me I don't know what you expect from me but frustration

Your solve are two LHF players and an inactive Merlyn. Probably the easiest thing for scum to push in this game state

vote me

Bestie, please, don’t do this. I really trust you, despite our difference of opinion on BlackStar, and I don’t want you to go like this, especially out of all the ways possible.

[AnimatedWiz]

VC 1.22 /// FINAL

Afrayed Knott

(7):

Merlyn

, Black,

Dannflor

, AnimatedWiz, Hu Tao, Afrayed Knott, Andante

BlackStar

(1): pisskop

AnimatedWiz

(1):

Gumiguy

Hu Tao

(1):

BlackStar

Not Voting

(3):

brightbluebug

, bob3141, Charles510

With 13 alive, it took 7 votes to scuttle a player. Day 1 has ended (countdown: (expired on 2023-09-28 06:30:00)).

mod notes: Tussling, failing

This is the final D1 vote count—here we can see two of Jackson’s scumreads on Afrayed’s wagon, and 3 not.

I feel like out of those 5, Merlyn is the most likely scum on the wagon, with BlackStar the most likely off the wagon.

[AnimatedWiz]

Also those 5 are not my scum-reads. They are my PoE.

Oh, I don’t think I know what PoE means then—I thought it meant a Preferred Order of Elimination or something like that?

[AnimatedWiz]

Also those 5 are not my scum-reads. They are my PoE.

Oh, I don’t think I know what PoE means then—I thought it meant a Preferred Order of Elimination or something like that?

PoE stands for process of elimination, at least that's how I use it. Which means generally what I deem to be the pool of people that contain all scum. It is not to say I am never going to look outside of that, of course I am but that's the pool which I believe contains all the wolves.

Oh, okay! Thanks for explaining—I really need to keep the glossary on the wiki open in another tab.

[AnimatedWiz]

VC 1.22 /// FINAL

Afrayed Knott

(7):

Merlyn

, Black,

Dannflor

, AnimatedWiz, Hu Tao, Afrayed Knott, Andante

BlackStar

(1): pisskop

AnimatedWiz

(1):

Gumiguy

Hu Tao

(1):

BlackStar

Not Voting

(3):

brightbluebug

, bob3141, Charles510

With 13 alive, it took 7 votes to scuttle a player. Day 1 has ended (countdown: (expired on 2023-09-28 06:30:00)).

mod notes: Tussling, failing

This is the final D1 vote count—here we can see two of Jackson’s scumreads on Afrayed’s wagon, and 3 not.

I feel like out of those 5, Merlyn is the most likely scum on the wagon, with BlackStar the most likely off the wagon.

Based on what?

Merlyn is the one I trust least on that wagon—I townread Dann, Hu Tao, Andante, and Black (in that order), and Afrayed is obviously town, so that leaves Merlyn as the only person on that wagon I really scumread. You made the same point earlier in D2.

For you, it’s the same reasons as before—I can go into detail later if you’d like.

[AnimatedWiz]

I townread Dann heavily, but to be honest, I do think Hu Tao’s likely clear puts them above him when I think about it rationally—that’s a good point.

Black’s been acting sort of weird D2, and I’m unsure if that’s just the frustration she mentioned a while ago and how she’s also been pushed by some of the other people here or like, just a scum’s web falling apart a bit? I still think she’s town, but I just don’t feel as confident about that as I do about other people.

Andante just strikes me as town, and I can’t really get that thought out of my head—like, she’s really overzealous at times but I can’t fathom it being an act put on by scum, y’know? She hasn’t really dropped it at all despite it probably being very energy-intensive to fake, so I think it’s genuine.

[AnimatedWiz]

Yeah I'm thinking BlackStar flips scum regardless of Dann's alignment

besides whatever Blackstar flips I’m pretty sure you’re gonna use it as an excuse to kill me next

Yeah I think you flip scum regardless of what BlackStar flips. If only enough people agreed with me we could probably just fade you today

I mean, Dann is right here—you have said both would flip as scum regardless of how the other flips.

[AnimatedWiz]

iv only jusst really noticed how little gum did day one. interaction with 1-2 two player and 2 read lists

VOTE: Gob

We get no information from a Gumi/gob flip. BlackStar is a better vote imo

there is no need to rush the day. but as things stand for now my vote is better placed on gob for now

I think taking it slow for the next day or two might help us think straight more—we all seem to be getting really heated at each other despite most of our biggest scumreads being quiet for the last few days. If any of them are scum, they might just be hoping we get so caught up in our own arguments that we ignore them for now.

[AnimatedWiz]

bob < bug < Charles/Jackson

Why Jackson and Bob?

And if you don’t trust Bob, do you then not trust Hu Tao?

[AnimatedWiz]

Didn’t realize momentum had shifted back to BlackStar so fully.

VOTE: BlackStar

[AnimatedWiz]

And also what does the momentum have to do with it? What I mean is, are you saying you wouldn't be voting for them if momentum hadn't shifted their way or do you mean it some other way?

I’m saying that, similar to D1, I have multiple scumreads that have been wagons—originally I voted for BlackStar D2, then shifted to my second best scumread, Merlyn, since her wagon had far more support. Once the situation reversed and BlackStar’s wagon was a more realistic option, I returned back to my original vote.

I’m not going to stay on a vanity wagon if doing so means my vote is wasted—it’s not practical.

[AnimatedWiz]

VC 2.15

BlackStar

(3): pisskop, JacksonVirgo, Black

Merlyn

(3): AnimatedWiz, gob, bob3141

gob

(2): Dannflor, Andante

brightbluebug

(1): BlackStar

Black

(1): Hu Tao

bob3141

(1): brightbluebug

Not Voting

(1): Merlyn

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to smack a player really hard in the nose. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2023-10-08 22:15:00).

mod notes: The ceiling collapses

Also, this was literally the vote count just after I stopped actively participating in the thread for the day—you can see that both wagons are tied here.

[AnimatedWiz]

Merlyn is the one I trust least on that wagon—I townread Dann, Hu Tao, Andante, and Black (in that order), and Afrayed is obviously town, so that leaves Merlyn as the only person on that wagon I really scumread. You made the same point earlier in D2.

In addition to what I said there about Merlyn, she also just disappeared for a significant portion of D2 while we were all arguing amongst ourselves. I feel like it would be a smart move for scum to try to avoid drawing attention to themselves and to let us cannibalize each other.

[AnimatedWiz]

You didn't really say why you don't trust Merlyn/why you scumread her in #1410. Surely there was more to your read there other than she was on the Afrayed wagon?

That’s totally fair.

Some of the main things that pinged me on her as well as the wagonomics is how she kept on postponing her rereading—at a certain point, it really does feel like she’s actively attempting to not have to contribute to the game. And in the small amount of posts she’s had in D2, so many of them are just defending herself—she hasn’t really pushed anyone at all D2 aside from the very low-effort attempt to vote Hu Tao right at the beginning.

Since she pushed Afrayed so heavily in the beginning but now is suddenly apathetic to the idea of scumreading heavily, I feel like she’s definitely going for more of a survival strategy than a solve strategy, which doesn’t really benefit town at all even if she is town, y’know? It doesn’t match the profile of a contributing town player for me.

[AnimatedWiz]

I mean, if me going out of my way to defend Dann repeatedly isn’t working with a partner but trying to set up a D3 elim on Merlyn and critiquing her play is, I don’t know what to say to that.

[AnimatedWiz]

Why is it when I switch my vote off people everyone

then

votes for them?

[AnimatedWiz]

VOTE: Merlyn

[AnimatedWiz]

I think Bob said he was trying to confirm someone as a townie instead of clearing a scumread?

[AnimatedWiz]

Ah, sorry—I’ll duck out.

[AnimatedWiz]

From where I'm standing I don't know why people are so convinced on Annie as town. When pressed they basically admitted they're just moving to whatever wagon is most likely to lim. That's not town thinking.

I think you’re misunderstanding me—I have two major scumreads (you and BlackStar), and I am trying to get one of y’all eliminated. If the wagon I am currently parked on is not looking like a feasible elimination for the day, I will happily switch to the other, because regardless of which one of you goes first we still get rid of scum.

And I definitely don’t scumread Dannflor—my scumread of BlackStar is based on all the other evidence against him.

[AnimatedWiz]

Remind us all what that evidence is again?

You have few scumreads—almost always, you have just one that you repeatedly try to eliminate (Andante, Charles, Bug, then me), and these are almost always wagons that already exist. As soon as public opinion mostly turns against that scumread, you jump ship and try to find someone else to shift attention to.

Additionally, you seem to mainly vote based on whoever will prolong your survival, and not based on any followable logic aside from OMGUS—you admit to OMGUS being a main consideration in your reads in 1425 and then slowly try to backtrack from that as soon as other people realize how scummy that sounds. Actually, whenever anyone counters you, you immediately try to downplay and shift the meaning of what you said.

Also, your scum games from 2018 aren’t the best reason to townread you, since it’s literally been 5 years with no games since then—even if you didn’t intend to, you likely play very different from then due to exposure to new experiences and theories. Plus, you linked them yourself, which could mean you chose ones that are explicitly different from your current playstyle.

Finally, Merlyn has been defending you since D2, like in 664. I don’t think it’s irrational to see one scummy person working with another and have it compound the suspicion on both. You both seem to have found a shared target to try to push your own wagons onto, after all.

[AnimatedWiz]

And let me use the same reasoning you yourself used earlier when giving your scumread:

His posts just feel scummy to me.

[AnimatedWiz]

I've scum read you since day one, so you trying to pretend that I just magically decide to pay attention to you now is BS. I still don't like Bug's slot but his replacement isn't here yet, so I'm not sure how you think I could keep pushing him.

I never said you don’t lay out foundations for future wagons—you just made far more of a push for me once the other options weren’t going to be received well. And your Bug push stopped as soon as the replacement happened because everyone else also wanted to wait on pushing Titus since the main evidence against Bug was just inactivity.

I explain my logic every step of the way. What you said about post 1425 is inaccurate because I've been consistent about that this entire time. I don't see why it's scummy to not trust someone who is pushing for you to die.

It’s scummy because it’s

only

a survival tactic—it doesn’t lead to accurate reads for the town and just reduces the town’s trust in each other. When the town subscribes to the idea of every player for themself, they lose.

Also, you spent like the next 3 posts trying to make your admission of OMGUS seem less damning and less clear. You weren’t consistent, even if you honestly thought you were.

I posted my games because Black asked for them. I didn't read through them, I just picked whatever scum games I could find. I don't see them as evidence as anything, I'm just giving Black what they wanted.

I suppose I can’t really mechanically confirm or deny this statement, just state my theory on the possibility of you cherry-picking games.

I'm not really sure what your point about Merlyn is. I don't think I've ever defended Merlyn and I'm not voting you so how exactly are we working together?

This is almost certainly because people kept on harping on you and Dann working together—before that was called out, Merlyn was already working to rehabilitate your image, and therefore couldn’t really stop helping you without it seeming like she was backing off due to the accusation alone. However, since you hadn’t helped her yet, you likely decided to not try to support her to not arouse any more suspicion for yourself.

[AnimatedWiz]

Also, Dann, why the vote? I really doubt it’s due to trust in the actual elimination, and I would hate to have you vote on Star just because everyone else is.

I’m for Star going, but I don’t want you on the wagon if you don’t actually believe in it.

[AnimatedWiz]

Your posts were scummy D1 and they’re scummy now, too. Just because more stuff has happened as the game has fully opened up D2 doesn’t mean they’re not good reasons and that I pulled them from the aether willy-nilly—my theories make sense as far as I am concerned, and you don’t have much evidence against them, either. The more you’ve posted, the more I find reasons to vote for you, and I don’t think I can be swayed without some truly compelling evidence in your favor.

I don’t think I can convince you of you being scum for obvious reasons, but I hope everyone else here reads all this and comes to their own conclusions about what we’ve said so far.

VOTE: BlackStar.

E-1.

[AnimatedWiz]

I do remember in my last game of 9 people, we massclaimed on D2 and other people said it was really early—I’ll be honest and say I don’t know the exact reasons why doing it at a certain time is better or not, though.

However, we did have our power roles taken out by the NKs after, so I suppose here we’re deciding when it’s best to trade our conf/lock towns dying each night for our PRs dying instead, right?

[AnimatedWiz]

I'm at the state fair playing Mafia. I think I'm an addict

I mean, this game is just a succession of emotional rushes punctuated by stretches of downtime between—it’s sort of destined to be addictive that way, I think.

Have fun at the fair, though—please let me know if they have any really large animals (they’re my favorite)!

[AnimatedWiz]

like speaking of

I sincerely apologize for just being all over the place d2 this game

I got way to focused on finding the correct solve and being *correct* that I forwent being a team player

This game doesnt need someone to carry with a 360 noscope solve

Anyway, I’m sorry for being a mess and I’ll try not to make any stupid emotionally fueles decisions anymore

It happens—again, lots of emotional rushes that overwhelm us. Glad you’re still willing to play with us, though. c:

[AnimatedWiz]

I can understand going for gob here, since the questioning of Titus seems rather, uh, odd, for lack of a better word? Like, it feels surface-level and based on emotions—maybe not nefarious per se, but not convincing to me at the moment.

I will admit, Titus’s behavior upon coming in reminds me of how Jackson replaced into our last game (where they ended up being scum), but that’s an n of 1 and therefore not amazing evidence to base an argument on. I can’t say I townread Titus, but I do think I would need better reasons than what I have currently to actively go for her. Hopefully we don’t lose her just yet.

[AnimatedWiz]

I dunno, honestly—both gob and Titus replaced into very inactive slots and so I think I’m translating the lack of information/read on them into a bad read, which isn’t exactly fair.

Both have played really odd games since replacing in, and that might also be playing a part in pinging my intuition here, but I just can’t seem to follow what the throughlines of their playstyle are—not necessarily due to scummy intentions, but definitely some hidden motives and strategies at play with them both.

They could maybe both be scum? I would doubt it based on my current solve though, but it feels like there’s this weird dance between them right now for me. Maybe they’re like, Neighbors or something?

[AnimatedWiz]

I guess in that case, I’d prefer it if we didn’t eliminate gob or Titus right now—I would like to see how they interact further down the line to get a better idea of what’s going on.

[AnimatedWiz]

I guess in that case, I’d prefer it if we didn’t eliminate gob or Titus right now—I would like to see how they interact further down the line to get a better idea of what’s going on.

Why would that be fruitful in particular? gob has already shown that he cannot fabricate a reason to scumread me.

That’s exactly it—I want to know

why

he’s acting like this about you, because it could be that he investigated you, he’s scummy, you’re both scummy, or some other reason. I just can’t fathom this being a normal interaction between vanilla Townies, y’know?

[AnimatedWiz]

I still feel like I can distinguish between town!Titus trying to keep an open mind and analyze all possibilities versus scum!Titus discrediting town and shutting down possibilities.

This feels like the former

All right, I’ll suppose I’ll trust your judgment on this since you’ve played with her more. I don’t think I’ll be able to get rid of the sinking feeling in my gut about her just yet, but I don’t think I really have anything else screaming that she’s scum anyway. Might as well try to work together more to get a good scumread out today.

[AnimatedWiz]

dissapears when not pressured…

I feel like this isn’t accurate? I popped in today to express my feelings on Titus and gob, and the two days before that I entered the thread by talking about my reads on people.

However, this is my own skewed viewpoint, so it could be seen very differently by people who aren’t me with my thoughts—might actually be that I do tend to enter around the time I’m being discussed by happenstance and I don’t remember.

[AnimatedWiz]

I think I’m confused about what y’all are saying—I’d really appreciate if you could clear this up.

You do not understand what I am staying. There's no point in the person I believe exists to come forward as bob is supposedly self resolving. We get his second result and anonymous stays here. This is pushing what I feel comfortable saying. I did unexpectedly leave a hint post 1.

I have no proof anonymous exists but I have a reason to.

Is this the “anonymous” you’re referring to now, Titus?

Also, what does preshading mean? Like, preemptively trying to make someone look suspicious?

[AnimatedWiz]

@AnimatedWiz The anonymous I have referenced has been the same person. Adante was basically another person that suggests anonymous should not exist. I'd have a real problem with two. I'm not locking bob in as scum because as a whole this setup makes no sense.

An innocent child that functions as a doctor?
A one shot role cop and pt cop that, if all players were skilled and honest, wind up checking the same target?
That's the start of the oddness.

Thank you for explaining. I’m… also confused, but that’s both by the entire timeline of events so far and also by what sort of role/person you’re implying—I really have no idea what you could mean, but I really hope it ends up making a lot of sense down the line because that would be really helpful.

[AnimatedWiz]

1-Shot Vanilla Cop here.

[AnimatedWiz]

The way Bob claimed was off, and now we know he lied about it. This is probably who I want to lim today

I think Hu Tao is probably town if Bob flips red but I'm still uncomfortable with her barely playing the game and then aggressively pushing for a mass claim

I still think Dannflor is probably scum

Bob/Dann/x

I’m not a fan of eliminating Dann still, but I am also a little concerned about Bob admitting to lying, even if the lie didn’t amount to much aside from not getting eliminated for a day.

But at the same time, I also did a bad gambit earlier this weekend that didn’t have the impact I wanted, and I feel like scum lying about being a cop would probably try to get a guilty on someone instead of an innocent, right? Again, I don’t feel like it makes sense to me.

[AnimatedWiz]

Oh, I thought we were doing results after everyone claimed, but I checked Andante N2. I wasn't sure if she was setting me up as the D3 miselim or just actually suspicious of me... and now I know the answer.

Also, in my last post, for some reason I said my bad gambit happened last weekend, but it happened early in D1, so it was like, three weeks ago? Just wanted to clarify that.

[AnimatedWiz]

Why would you target one of your top townreads over someone like Merlyn who was one of your top scumreads?

The town was already pretty suspicious of Merlyn, so I didn't feel like getting info on who I assumed would be eliminated next anyway would be a good use of my 1-shot. Andante was suspicious of me and I didn't think they would be NKed or elimmed until late game, so I figured it would pay off more.

[AnimatedWiz]

We have a hood

Wait, so are you Masons or just in a Neighborhood? I'm confused.

[AnimatedWiz]

Oh, nice, we have another confirmed townie then! That's actually really good for us.

[AnimatedWiz]

Why would you target one of your top townreads over someone like Merlyn who was one of your top scumreads?

The town was already pretty suspicious of Merlyn, so I didn't feel like getting info on who I assumed would be eliminated next anyway would be a good use of my 1-shot. Andante was suspicious of me and I didn't think they would be NKed or elimmed until late game, so I figured it would pay off more.

I don't like this reasoning. Not checking Merlyn because she's suspicious and will probably be faded next is wild. You check her to see if she was being set up for a D2 miselim or if she's actually scum like you think. Checking someone you think is probably town makes way less sense. Again, here's a case of someone claiming cop and revealing convenient results. I think one of bob/Annie is lying about their role, and I'm starting to see motivation why bob did what he did

Let's fade Annie today

Literally, the guides on MafiaScum hammer home that you should check the people you think you will make it to the end of the game for maximum impact. This is my second game, and I'm basing a lot of that wiki—you don't have to trust me, but like, please assume some level of incompetence here instead of deception. If I wanted to lie, I would've just claimed something better, probably.

[AnimatedWiz]

Can I see your first game?

Regardless of your alignment, I hope I am not overwhelming you.

Here it is: viewtopic.php?t=91568

And I'll be honest, Mafia is kind of an overwhelming game for me in general since I have a lot of different kinds of anxiety disorders, but you're not making it any worse, I promise! I think these games are helping me get used to the symptoms in a safe, controlled environment—at least I hope so, anyway.

[AnimatedWiz]

I actually have a quick question: if we have a Vanilla Cop, a Role Cop, and a PT Cop, and they're all 1-Shot, are there any other kinds of 1-Shot Cops that we might also have?

[AnimatedWiz]

Also, just a quick note: if neither Titus or gob is some sort of protective role, then Black is pretty much confirmed to be town (unless for some weird reason the scumteam wouldn’t NK N1).

[AnimatedWiz]

im assuming n1 shenanigans was a scum ploy. seen scum try to set up a fake doc claim before

Wait, what? But Pisskop, confirmed innocent, publicly claimed to be the protective role responsible—I don’t understand.

[AnimatedWiz]

Oh, do you mean, like, the scumteam intentionally didn’t kill anyone N1 in the hopes of one of them claiming to have protected someone in order to be seen as clear? But pisskop spoke up first and then the scum chickened out because of it?

[AnimatedWiz]

I mean, maybe, but I would think a non-Activated Innocent Child would be a great slot to put some other power roles onto, since they tend to die early and it helps mitigate swing.

[AnimatedWiz]

I predicted the miller but not the vengeful part of titus’ claim

I was the opposite—I didn’t know that Miller was considered Normal.

[AnimatedWiz]

I’m a worried about losing you to the NK, but I suppose you’re right—if that did happen, it just means we get to keep more conf town for an easier mechanical solve later down the line.

[AnimatedWiz]

Black, you’ve been really hungry to quickelim all game. I know you’re probably town based on N1, but I don’t think that strategy has been helping us out too much.

[AnimatedWiz]

If we do you, Id rather you venge somebody else than gob

Agreed. I'd like to flip gob first.

Nope we flip you first before lim or lose day.

Just to clarify, do you think Titus is scum and are just wanting to cover your bases? Or do you think Titus likely is Town?

[AnimatedWiz]

Black, you’ve been really hungry to quickelim all game. I know you’re probably town based on N1, but I don’t think that strategy has been helping us out too much.

I completely disagree with this assessment of me. I'm just placing my vote. I haven't been hungry for a quickelim and I'm not hungry for it now

I mean, you might not be

intending

it to be that way, but you were also on both the Andante and Hu Tao wagons within an hour of D2 starting. Still think that’s not extremely pro-town.

[AnimatedWiz]

First we wait for Gob and other cops who haven't to claim their results. Then we vote out Titus. Titus shoots in Dann/Merlyn. I would prefer Dann

gob’s the only cop claimant to not share results—Andante’s dead and me and Bob shared ours.

[AnimatedWiz]

@bob, you shouldn't care. The fact you do care is troubling. You say gob is scum, but you won't lim him. Mechanically there's no reason not to lim gob.

If gob is scum, we have info.
If gob is town, we get a clear and lose a loss condition.

What is the clear win/lose conditions after that? I think I have an idea, but I don’t want to assume here.

[AnimatedWiz]

I won't vote Dannflor. It's weekend. No one is here. Just hammer already. You can come after me tomorrow if he flips town.

Stick to your word Titus. I am coming for you, accept your fate. Be the vote out today.

I think like, if Hu Tao was scum here and Titus wasn’t, they would be much less willing to push Titus when after she claimed she’d kill Hu Tao with her shot.

[AnimatedWiz]

who the hell are the deep wolves in your estimation

You and Wiz

those would be incredibly shallow wolves

???

Not really. You two are widely townread

Me and Dann have been the 3rd/4th wagons both D1 and D2, I think. Someone like you or Hu Tao would be actually deep since you have potential clears.

[AnimatedWiz]

who the hell are the deep wolves in your estimation

You and Wiz

those would be incredibly shallow wolves

???

Not really. You two are widely townread

Me and Dann have been the 3rd/4th wagons both D1 and D2, I think. Someone like you or Hu Tao would be actually deep since you have potential clears.

What is the point of arguing with me about what is a deep wolf and what isn't? I think you and Dann are scum. It doesn't matter if you're deep or shallow

That’s a fair point—I might disagree with your choices but I’m not actually contributing anything of value by critiquing the terminology—sorry!

[AnimatedWiz]

VOTE: gob

It’s really down to whether we vote for him or Titus. Y’all can make your choices, but I think this is the smarter move.

[AnimatedWiz]

Anyone voting gob should unvote

I just don’t think Titus is scummy—she’s been patiently explaining stuff to me when she really didn’t have to, and when you go back to iso her, all the crumbs line up with this moment. This is a miselim in my opinion—at least if I’m right and y’all still off her, we do get a town shot.

[AnimatedWiz]

Why do we have a Miller with no regular cop?

This is why we dont let miller claims live

I think all of the clears want Titus voted out. And all the non clears don't

Who should be the votes on Titus?

Some of those clears are also not full confirmations, though—only Jackson and pisskop are fully, 100% proven town. If there is a deepwolf, they might be on Titus’s wagon in order to both fit in and also get rid of another townie.

[AnimatedWiz]

Anyone voting gob should unvote

I just don’t think Titus is scummy—she’s been patiently explaining stuff to me when she really didn’t have to, and when you go back to iso her, all the crumbs line up with this moment. This is a miselim in my opinion—at least if I’m right and y’all still off her, we do get a town shot.

That's the point of vengeful.... we are getting back to even numbers if she's town. So if you think she's town then you should be fine with her vote regardless. Don't tell me I was wrong on you and you're scum

I think gob is scummy and Titus isn’t—why are we wasting Titus’s shot on someone that we all can just choose to eliminate anyway? And that’s only

if

Titus chooses to stay the course and not kill someone on her wagon. Let her get the information while we get rid of someone more obvious.

[AnimatedWiz]

actually that doesn't make sense mafia vengeful isn't normal is it

Not at all.

[AnimatedWiz]

I’m not being difficult on purpose. Y’all just shortened an entire day to kill someone who wanted more information first before making their decision. This is ridiculous.

[AnimatedWiz]

So the NK actually made it easier for us—simplified the list of suspects to 3 out of 5.

[AnimatedWiz]

Also is it possible Andante softed their result?

I can iso her posts in an hour or so and try to find out, but I admit I’m probably not going to be the best at spotting such things due to my inexperience.

[AnimatedWiz]

Hm… if Hu Tao is Mafia, they would either have to be a Traitor or you’d have to also be Mafia, Bob—there’s no other Normal mechanics where Hu Tao could be Mafia and you’d get a negative result without it being made clear as a part of your role, I’m pretty sure.

[AnimatedWiz]

If all 4 of us are actually 1-Shot Cops, I think killing any of us is useless after we reveal our result—it actually helps confirm the information and fully clears the target.

I would think that would make killing either Mason higher priority, but apparently they went for the Vanilla Townie.

[AnimatedWiz]

There's a true PoE of 6 with three scum within.
Gob, Wiz, Bob, Merlyn, Hu Tao.

I'm not opposed to delve into the world where Bob and Hu Tao are both wolves for the sake of completion. As this is the final day if wrong

Yeah, it’s 4:3 right now—every day is going to be LimLo from now on, unless you or pisskop manage to guess the right target.

[AnimatedWiz]

If all 4 of us are actually 1-Shot Cops, I think killing any of us is useless after we reveal our result—it actually helps confirm the information and fully clears the target.

I would think that would make killing either Mason higher priority, but apparently they went for the Vanilla Townie.

your kind showing yourself to be scum by being so wooden.

the fact is 3 cop claims and 2 masons. means atleast one has to be scum

as there certainly isnt more than 6 town pr prob 5

I’m not saying none of us are scum, since that obviously can’t be true with the math. I’m just saying that if all the town Cops are 1-Shot, it’s probably not worth it to kill them and confirm their info—would also help protect any Mafia that claim to be Cops, I think.

[AnimatedWiz]

We probably go Merlyn today

Merlyn or gob seems best to me, though I admit I’m also partial to Bob going as the third. I find it unlikely that Hu Tao is scum considering the narrow set of set-ups that would make it possible, plus how she’s acted all game.

[AnimatedWiz]

We probably go Merlyn today

Merlyn being town would mean that fmpov all 3 cop claims are scum. And I don't think that makes sense. I agree that merlyn is likely scum but we need to figure out cop claims too today

Since 3 out of the 5 of us are scum and 3 out of the 5 of us are also claiming to be 1-Shot Cops, there has to be at least one of me, gob, and Bob who are scum.

[AnimatedWiz]

I wanna find who the most likely partner of Hu Tao/Bob pairing would be if they were both together

Hm… I think I’m the only one out of the three of us remaining to speak a lot about them—I townread them both on D1 and D2 before Bob’s claim.

I don’t really remember anything from Merlyn or gob about either Hu Tao or Bob, though. I can try to look through their combined iso for anything, though.

[AnimatedWiz]

Is Babysitter Cop definitely two roles in one, or is like Vanilla Cop where you just find out if someone is that thing (in this case, a Babysitter)?

[AnimatedWiz]

I claimed 1-Shot Vanilla Cop, and that I checked Andante N2, when she was NKed.

[AnimatedWiz]

Personally, I think we could also look at the absolute ridiculous quickwagon to eliminate Titus over the group scumread. gob, Bob, and Hu Tao were on that one, and I still find it impossible to believe it was mostly townie.

[AnimatedWiz]

I claimed 1-Shot Vanilla Cop, and that I checked Andante N2, when she was NKed.

Can you explain again why you didn't use your shot n1?

I don’t know if I explained why I waited until N2 in the past, but I just didn’t feel like I had any actual info on anyone then—I mean, we had 0 mech to analyze aside from pisskop’s IC.

Plus, I tend to like reading through intuition, but I pushed Afrayed D1 and was wrong—I didn’t really trust my reads for a bit after that.

[AnimatedWiz]

ami and hu tao in voting block on day one execution just like day 2
[/quote]

…are you implying that Hu Tao and I are scum partners? Like, I understand going for me if you’re town, but I don’t understand why you’d be so focused on Hu Tao based off the slim possibility that they’re a Traitor.

[AnimatedWiz]

Ah shoot, I quoted wrong. :c

[AnimatedWiz]

yes, bob is implying that you are.

which only works both ways if you know who the traitor is and are scum

So we’d be looking for someone to be Informed on a flip then, right?

We’d have to assume it was that sort of information, though.

[AnimatedWiz]

So for bobs narrative to work, you/othermaf would have to recognize hu as the traitor by EoD1

I could understand interpreting Hu Tao voting for Andante as soon as D2 started as an attempt to hint at being a Traitor, but Hu Tao acted extremely similar to how they did our first game together all through Day 1.

Jackson, do you feel like Hu Tao acted the same?

[AnimatedWiz]

Ah jeez, I hope Bob’s okay. :/

[AnimatedWiz]

Merlyn and Hu Tao claimed VT. Your predecessor said they investigated Hu Tao N1 and got a negative result.

[AnimatedWiz]

Merlyn and Hu Tao claimed VT. Your predecessor said they investigated Hu Tao N1 and got a negative result.

Wdm negative.

Hu Tao innocent.

Yeah, negative like no PT access.

[AnimatedWiz]

Jackson’s a Mason with pisskop, and Jackson is also a Doctor.

[AnimatedWiz]

Yeah, if you’re a legit townie and Hu Tao isn’t a traitor, that’s the only real solution. I don’t think you’re town, so my solve is Enchant + gob + Merlyn.

[AnimatedWiz]

Yeah, if you’re a legit townie and Hu Tao isn’t a traitor, that’s the only real solution. I don’t think you’re town, so my solve is Enchant + gob + Merlyn.

Ok.

Vote gob.

Gob or Merlyn is probably the best vote right now, agreed—we should wait until later in the day, though.

[AnimatedWiz]

Doctor and Babysitter masons?

... I will be blunt that's something impossible.

Maybe they’re Simple or 1-Shot or something? They have to be Masons, but I’m sure a negative modifier would work to help prevent any broken strategies.

[AnimatedWiz]

Yeah, if you’re a legit townie and Hu Tao isn’t a traitor, that’s the only real solution. I don’t think you’re town, so my solve is Enchant + gob + Merlyn.

Ok.

Vote gob.

Gob or Merlyn is probably the best vote right now, agreed—we should wait until later in the day, though.

For what?

So we can figure this day out. I don’t want to throw away any more discussion time after we threw Titus onto train tracks and lost two townies for it.

[AnimatedWiz]

gob never posted a result—that’s part of why we’re waiting.

[AnimatedWiz]

Enchant, what are your thoughts on Merlyn?

[AnimatedWiz]

I feel like you’re trying to get us to misvote by voting extremely fast with no information, Enchant. Bob was on the wagon to get rid of Titus despite all of us agreeing on scumreading someone else and Titus herself saying she didn’t have enough info to feel comfortable picking a target. In that same vein, you wanted me to vote really early on this day and then you yourself voted early. It is LimLo and we really can’t afford to vote without fully considering our options and all the different possibilities here—I don’t think you’re playing in a way that allows us to get enough information to choose properly.

ami, gob, hu tao certainly feels most likely at the moment with that odd night kill.

Additionally, your predecessor mysteriously did not scumread Merlyn here, and instead was willing to throw his clear on Hu Tao out the window for some reason. You keep on pushing me and gob but don’t seem to want Merlyn to be voted, and when asked about Merlyn you actively shut down the discussion. This is extremely suspicious and, again, blocks us from getting enough info to make the right decision.

In that very improbable world where it’s Hu Tao, gob, and Merlyn, you are helping them win by not letting us trade information—if you truly are Town, please just work with us. We’ve had too many people leave and self-vote over this game and I’d rather it not end with more of the same.