Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835

[ZazieR]

ZazieR replaces magichands as of this post

Here. Will read this game tomorrow.

[ZazieR]

Ok, I've made a start with this game. Will start at page 5 later. But here's the first part of Zazie's 'spam' fest ^.^ (Yes, Nik, you finally get to see it in one of your own games )


Post 8 –

Hohum

, can you explain why you felt the need to join a game to make a specific post against Mastin?

[ZazieR]

Post 9 –

Saberwolf

, how do you know Mastin? If you’ve played with him before or have seen him play in games, links?

[ZazieR]

Post 10 –

Cain

, why did you want a bandwagon?

[ZazieR]

Post 11 – Trying to discredit the Mastin wagon.

DT Master

– What do you think of the reasons for voting Mastin?

[ZazieR]

Post 16 – Bad vote. You tried to discredit the Mastin wagon by stating that he hasn’t confirmed yet. Just state why you tried to put the attention of Mastin, as you’ve failed to explain that, though Hohum asked.

[ZazieR]

Post 18 – Trying to keep the attention on Mastin. This could also be a defence for one of them (As he asks both of them to forget about it), more likely to be DT as he got the most heat.
Short stated, trying to keep us away from discussion.

[ZazieR]

Post 25 –

Saberwolf

, can you elaborate why DT’s defence of Mastin isn’t scummy to you?

[ZazieR]

Gut activated on Posts 26 and 27. It doesn’t strike me as a town player defence, but more of that from scum.

[ZazieR]

Post 30 –

DT

, how did you get the impression Hohum wanted other players to pressure vote in Post 13?
Also, why did you want to wait till the rest of the players checked in?

(Might get back to this post later)

[ZazieR]

Post 34 –

Saberwolf

, elaborate on the ‘semi attack’.
Also, why did you want to wait till the rest of the players checked in?

[ZazieR]

Post 35 – Bad vote. This is twisting of the words as Nikanor asked why you didn’t vote DT. That’s not demanding you to vote him. Also,

Hohum

, what changed your mind from not voting Nikanor to voting Nikanor?

[ZazieR]

Post 40 – 4 scum and the rest townies? What happened to the fifth? Also, what’s wrong with commenting on posts?

[ZazieR]

EBWOP:
As for your question (Which is a question used to keep the game in the RVS): Hohum, Cow, and I’m in ongoing games with Toro and Nikanor.


(That's what happens when you write in Word >.<)

[ZazieR]

Post 42 – Bad post. You showed suspicions towards DT. Yet, you kept your RS vote (a policy vote), instead of a vote against somebody you were questioning. And if your vote against Mastin was for a good purpose, then why did you change your vote towards Nik,

Hohum

?

[ZazieR]

Post 50 – Good post. As for Hohum’s ‘defence’ in Post 55, wrong. Weren’t you questioning DT why he tried to de-rail it? Explain the difference between this question and Nikanor’s question.

[ZazieR]

Post 52 – Speaking for multiple players. Scummy.

Post 54 – Asking all the other players who are so far active for their thoughts, yet not doing it himself. Scummy.

Post 67 –

Saberwolf

, why are you already looking for connections when you don’t think any of the three is scummy?

(All posts from Saberwolf)

[ZazieR]

Post 71 –

Kill

, why did you only comment on this when there were other things said as well?
Seems scum trying to lay low.

[ZazieR]

Posts 82 and 84 – Both show a stance of non-interest. Not liking it. Post 82 is worse as he saw that there was a prod requested on him.

[ZazieR]

Post 88 –

Toro

, can you elaborate how you get this impression?

[ZazieR]

Post 92 – Fence-sitting.

[ZazieR]

As of now, the following look scummy:
-Hohum
-DT
-Saber
-Kill
-Toro
-ThAd
-Scott

The above 3 are more scummier than the latter 4.

[ZazieR]

Done with the last pages ^.^
Those who have already been scarred by my first posts, prepare yourself.
Because here does the 'spam fest' continue

Post 101 – Nik comments for the second time about Post 86. The first time, it seemed rather passive, just a question. But in this post, it seems an attack, while he didn’t comment to Toro’s answer. So can you,

Nik

, post your thoughts about Toro’s answer?

[ZazieR]

Post 103 –

DT

, Why did you add the last paragraph?

[ZazieR]

Post 104 – Gut activated.

[ZazieR]

Post 118 – Scummy post. The last paragraph shows AtE and he tries to get this argument over with by stating it is bad for town.

Post 122 –

DT

, can you elaborate on this post?

[ZazieR]

Cow

, can you paraphrase your discussion with DT? I have troubles reading it.

[ZazieR]

Post 127 –

DT

, regarding the first paragraph, what does ‘it’ refer to?

[ZazieR]

Post 132 - Nothing? No suspects, no questions, etc.?
Active lurking

[ZazieR]

Post 135 – As far as I know, I’m not a newb ._. The same for Hohum, ThAd and Cow.

[ZazieR]

Post 138 – Not liking the vote. Called two players scummy in it, yet voted for a player of whom he isn’t sure yet if he’s lazy town or scum. I’m also curious to something else. If you thought it was scummy what Nik, Cow and Hohum did, then why no vote before this post?

[ZazieR]

Post 146 –

Toro

, who do you mean with ‘them’? Also, is the last paragraph a joke or not?

[ZazieR]

Post 151 – Other than that I also haven’t received an official welcome (Want to explain why ?), there is one other thing that caught my attention: The part aimed at Scott. Using one game (of which he even doesn’t know what alignment Toro has at the moment he wrote that post) is scummy.

[ZazieR]

Post 175 – I’ve done worse than this ._.

[ZazieR]

Post 176 – With this as reason, your vote is indeed scummy.
This also shows that you are following the game

[ZazieR]

Post 178 –

Kill

, does this mean you had nothing to say about the other discussions that happened between your last two posts as well?

[ZazieR]

Post 180 (DT):

I know its your meta to do this (reading the Grimmy's Pokemon madness) But I prefer a wall then this spammage. (Though it is devious and gets your post count up)

First of all, thanks for the false accusation. That’s not the reason why I ‘spam’. And second, I have no idea what ‘devious’ means =/
Anyway, why are you reading over Grimmy’s game?

Regarding your response of Post 157:
To be more specific, do you agree with the reasons for a policy vote?

Why did you answer for Saberwolf? (Post 165)
Also, regarding this, you couldn’t say that Cow was joking about his comments about unvoting him, but you can say that saberwolf isn’t serious with this?

And last, your paragraph aimed at Toro. Cain explained why he joined the bandwagon a bit above your post. So why assume when you can see what he thinks?

[ZazieR]

Post 181 –

Toro

, Cain explained why he joined the bandwagon in Post 176. Why no response to it when you are attacking him over it?

[ZazieR]

Saberwolf

-Post 182: No links of your games with Mastin?
-Post 183: Have you done this somewhere before? If so, show me links. I’ll comment later fully on this part when you have given me links if there are ones. But what you are saying is incorrect. Let’s look at the VC. Post 133 shows that of the four who started talking, 2 have votes. Of which one has a vote of another starter. Yep, they are really targets .
Also, this gives me the impression you don’t want to get attention.
-184 and 185. You state again that you wanted to wait till everybody has chimed in. So I’d like to know why you haven’t questioned them or anything at all. Some examples include Kill, Cain and ThAd.
-Post 186.

A bit

of sarcasm? I also want you to respond to my second question regarding Post 40. There was once again discussion, and you asked a question suitable for the RVS.
-Post 187. Regarding Post 52: By saying that there were real reasons, you are trying to state that the Mastin wagon is a good wagon, defending those who are on it. Add that as you already said, Hohum had the same reasons. Defending yourself and another player (Two players) is still defending multiple players. Also, by stating this, you give Cain a possible reason behind his vote. Making it technically three players you are defending.
Regarding Post 54: Yes, you did post your own list later on. After you were asked to do so. This is fake scumhunting. You’re trying to appear active by posting a question to let other scum hunt, while you aren’t doing it yourself. This also gives you at the same time the thoughts from the other players.
Regarding Post 67: What do we have in this post. Saber’s list with his thoughts of the active players. What did he state:
-Nik seems legit, but a tad bit pushy (In other words, not scummy)
-DT has made some pro-town looking posts, though he had done some scummy things. You want to hear more (In other words, neutral)
-Hohum is your favorite of the three (In other words, not scummy)
At the end of this post, he does look at connections between them, while not being suspicious of any of them. You’re saying you haven’t done this,

Saber

. Show that.
-Post 188. First of all, that was only to page 5. I’m pretty sure that Cow, Cain and Nik had posted as well back then. Cain you realised later. Nice case of overreacting. Also, the part about Cain is scummy. You state that ‘others’ thought his vote was scummy. Meaning that you didn’t. Yet, you’re basing an attack against me for it. Why is that?
Also, as answer, I asked him a question about it. If he’s scummy shouldn’t be based upon the vote, but the reason behind it. Now that I have it, his vote is scummy.
-Post 189. Responded to your responses. I’ve seen no misrep or the other things you’re accusing me off from my side. If you see so, show me. Also, you are scummy. Your reason for your vote seems to be that I think you are scummy.
I’m also curious to hear from you why you think my ‘spam’ has done no scumhunting. With that said, do you think I’m the only one who hasn’t done any scumhunting? If not, why did you only call me out when you think it’s scummy?
(And it’s quite ironic to complain about my ‘spam’ and for you to respond to each of my posts with one post at a time)

[ZazieR]

Post 193 –This post makes it more scummy that you stated connections between three players you didn’t see as scummy, but not right after you called a player scummy

[ZazieR]

Post 194 – Interested in hearing whom I’ve called useless,

Scott

[ZazieR]

Post 196 – Last paragraph is interesting. You say that I’m trying to make the four who started the discussion to look scummy (Even though I didn’t mention Nik). One scumtell I like is fake scumhunting. An example is attacking one player for what he did, but not another for doing the same.
What I mean is that my main suspicions were Hohum, Saber and you (DT). Looking at Cow’s analysis post, he has the same. Want to tell what the difference is between my analysis and Cow’s?

[ZazieR]

Post 197 – You sure know how to be contradictory with your posts, don’t you?
First, you state that I’ve attacked every player who had posted up until that point. In the same post, you realise already that this isn’t the case.
In this post, you state that I’m mainly attacking the four main talkers. Meaning, I did narrow it down, which was something you wanted me to do in the first post in response to my list.
Also, if you remember, the first posts were up to page 5. Seems Toro had only 5 posts at that point. And most weren’t analysable. The same goes for Cain who only had one post at that point, of whom I asked a question about it. But tell me, why those two specific and not other players I barely mentioned, like Kill, ThAd or Scott?
As for your question in Post 198, Nik isn’t scummy.

[ZazieR]

Post 205 – My list wasn’t the real version yet. The bottom 4 are very likely going to the ‘neutral’ or ‘neutral/leaning towards …’ lists.

[ZazieR]

Post 207 – Cain, Lumi, Nik and Cow (Me as well) to be exact. I asked a question towards Cain to see if he’s scummy or not. Lumi hadn’t posted anything yet. And the last two aren’t scummy/barely scummy.

[ZazieR]

Post 219 – With assuming, you don’t get far. Nik is one of my more pro-town reads.
When I don’t comment, it either means I agree or have nothing to say. Nik falls in the first category for the most parts.

[ZazieR]

Post 222 – Are you looking at the reasons why I think that those three are scummy? Because I don’t get that impression from this post. Do so, and then come back.
Also, because you think somebody is the most scummiest, doesn’t mean I think the same. Disagreeing isn’t a scumtell.
I really don’t know what to think of Post 223.

Post 225:

Why I think ZazieR twisted my words and such:

Post 18 – Trying to keep the attention on Mastin. This

could also be

a defence for one of them (As he asks both of them to forget about it), more likely to be DT as he got the most heat.
Short stated, trying to keep us away from discussion.

Never made the slightest indication of nudging the votes or attention onto Mastin. After my vote for mastin and small talk with hohum, made NO MORE MENTION of mastin.

Bolded for the right keywords.

[ZazieR]

Post 227:

Mind you, by scummiest, I mean rubbed me the wrong way more than the others.

So for people to be scummy, they have to rub you the wrong way? This is what prompted me to vote for you when you said this about ZazieR.

The two situations are different. In the first situation, we have almost nobody talking at all, and out of the four active people, three were fighting each other in a OMGUS battle. I tried not to take any sides, cause to me it was clear that they were tunneling,

and that I'd get almost no useful information out of the fight

. There was not enough information and the timelength was too short [considering we were still in the RVS] to be able to claim any of the activity was scummy. In the second situation, I felt that ZazieR had made an inappropriate attack on me, and seemed to be trying hard to discredit me. Looking at it from a scum perspective it would make sense: I was the only one not involved in the fight, so I was the only one who didn't make myself look bad. Also, I had already gained the respect and title of pro-town from one player, so it'd be best to try to take that away from me and make me look as bad as possible to make the odds better in favour of scum.

Hope that helps. Although, no doubt, you'll do your best to rip this to shreds too, or else claim ignorance.

Bolded is scummy. Note the ‘I’ in it. Thinking about himself, instead of the whole town.
Can’t remember who called you pro-town. Link?
Also,

Cow

, RUN!!! Nobody calls you scumy, now I’m going to attack you to throw dirt on you!!!
*throws dirt*
*kicks sand at you*
*Mud wrestles you*
Had enough ?
Seriously though, next time wait for my response, instead of making assumptions that aren’t true. Though it has made me interested to hear from your POV, why this can’t have come from Zazie-town.
Also, did I shred it enough ?

[ZazieR]

Post 232 – Post 54: Saber asked for the lists. Hohum didn’t. See my response to Saber’s explanation for a full explanation why this is scummy.
Post 67: Don’t see it. Town doesn’t know who’s connected to whom. So when a town player gets lynched, you can’t clear anyone.

[ZazieR]

Post 196 – Last paragraph is interesting. You say that I’m trying to make the four who started the discussion to look scummy (Even though I didn’t mention Nik). One scumtell I like is fake scumhunting. An example is attacking one player for what he did, but not another for doing the same.

What I mean is that my main suspicions were Hohum, Saber and you (DT). Looking at Cow’s analysis post, he has the same. Want to tell what the difference is between my analysis and Cow’s?

EBWOP:
Bolded is also a question

Saber

should answer.

[ZazieR]

Lists

Scummy:

Vote Saberwolf

DT
Hohum (*awaits responses*)

Neutral/leaning scummy:
Scott
Toro

Neutral:
Kill
Lumi

Town:
Cow
Nik

When I was done with the above lists, I had to look at the OP who I had forgotten ._. Not a good sign.
Forgot:
Cain
ThAd

[ZazieR]

Back, will be analysing what I''ve missed now.
(Pre-warning, as all of you know what will be coming)

[ZazieR]

Post 262

In response to Post 103:
I did mean that quote. And no, you can''t say it''s a sentence as there were two I prefer to mention paragraphs. Otherwise, I might have to say ''the third line of the second paragraph in Post something''. Now that''s confusing >.<
Anyway, you state that you ignored the smiley. Any reason why?

As for Post 122, I wanted an elaboration of Point 3. Now that I have it, I''ll look at it in context later on.

At your response of Post 127, you state that you have said before that the wagon wasn''t scummy. Can you link me to the first time you said this?

Then comes the part where you (Once again) accuse me wrong about being a spammer and using it to increase my total amount of posts. I''ll look for the link where I''ve explained why later. It''s somewhere at MD.

Following is Post 180.
You did answer for Saber in it. Sure, they may not have been his thoughts. But when you answer before the player at whom the question is aimed, he can use the answer you''ve given for his own.
And no, this isn''t a scumslip.

Post 196. Can you elaborate on the first point?

As answer towards Post 205, by stating who was scummy in the first part of my read, I''d know at whom to look. Neutrals do get attention from me at times, but I look more at those who are scummy to me. As I wasn''t done yet, this could have changed if they had done something scummy later on. So I wrote a half-way through list to remind me who might need more attention depending on what they will write.

As for Post 225, if one of you or Saber turn up scum, I will look at the other more closely. More so if Saber turns up scum than you (DT). That''s what it implies.

And last, Post 232. Do you want to respond to why you don''t dislike or less dislike what Saber did, based upon my reasoning mentioned in Post 249?
Also, what''s the spectrum idea?


(P.S. My posts may take more time today. Let''s keep it at that I''ve found something, better said somebody, who comes before MS ^.^)

[ZazieR]

-Post 183: Have you done this somewhere before? If so, show me links. I’ll comment later fully on this part when you have given me links if there are ones. But what you are saying is incorrect. Let’s look at the VC.

I was talking about this game, so no links to provide. The votes may not all be there, but the mudslinging is mainly at the four horsemen [i'm giving us a name now ]

Post 133 shows that of the four who started talking, 2 have votes. Of which one has a vote of another starter. Yep, they are really targets .
Also, this gives me the impression you don’t want to get attention.

I was talking about discouraging ''tunneling''. Have you done this before? Asking players to stop ''tunneling'' onto each other in a different game? If so, link?

-184 and 185. You state again that you wanted to wait till everybody has chimed in. So I’d like to know why you haven’t questioned them or anything at all. Some examples include Kill, Cain and ThAd.

I have a very short attention span, and can really only focus on a couple of things at a time. Trying to sort out the chaos allowed me to forget about the others. It is also happening now...it's taking all my effort and time just to reply to you, so I can't focus on anyone else....I'm gonna come back to this point in my conclusion.

Wait. I saw later in this post that you discredit me for looking at multiple players. But now you state complaints here that you can''t look at multiple players. Noted.
Seconly, links to finished games?
And lastly, you stated that you don''t want to give lurkers a free pass. Apparently, you did a huge PBPA. Yet, you don''t ask them any questions at all. Still has to do with your short attention span? Probably not, so why didn''t you ask questions then?

-Post 186.

A bit

of sarcasm?

A bit, a piece, synonymous words there

I also want you to respond to my second question regarding Post 40. There was once again discussion, and you asked a question suitable for the RVS.

nothing wrong with commenting on posts, but when it leads to tunneling, I try to discourage it. Tunneling is anti-town.

I bolded ''a bit'' as it means not everything was. I would like to know what wasn''t.
In my opinion, discussion is always better than no discussion. Tunneling at least can help us to find scum, while this can''t happen when there''s no discussion. If you disagree that tunneling can help us find scum and think that stopping it helps, please explain why.

-Post 187. Regarding Post 52: By saying that there were real reasons, you are trying to state that the Mastin wagon is a good wagon, defending those who are on it. Add that as you already said, Hohum had the same reasons. Defending yourself and another player (Two players) is still defending multiple players.

touche, I'll concede to that point I suppose, although as long as its clear, I only partially defended hohum other than myself

Also, by stating this, you give Cain a possible reason behind his vote. Making it technically three players you are defending.

nope, don't like cain, never vouched for him

By saying that the bandwagon has serious votes on it and explaining why, this gives a player who hasn''t stated a reason yet a way out to justify his vote. Agreed or disagreed and why?

This is fake scumhunting. You’re trying to appear active by posting a question to let other scum hunt, while you aren’t doing it yourself. This also gives you at the same time the thoughts from the other players.

Why would it be any different had I posted first or in the middle?

Answer in italics.

Regarding Post 67: What do we have in this post. Saber’s list with his thoughts of the active players. What did he state:
-Nik seems legit, but a tad bit pushy (In other words, not scummy)
-DT has made some pro-town looking posts, though he had done some scummy things. You want to hear more (In other words, neutral)
-Hohum is your favorite of the three (In other words, not scummy)
At the end of this post, he does look at connections between them, while not being suspicious of any of them. You’re saying you haven’t done this,

Saber

. Show that.

The only thing I did was make possible seperations between them. I never made any scum connections between any of them.

This isn''t a scum connection, because?:

I would put nik on opposite sides of DT and hohum if any of them are scum.

-Post 188. First of all, that was only to page 5. I’m pretty sure that Cow, Cain and Nik had posted as well back then. Cain you realised later. Nice case of overreacting.

Wasnt overreacting, everyone else concured to my thoughts on the issue

Also, the part about Cain is scummy. You state that ‘others’ thought his vote was scummy. Meaning that you didn’t.

because I hadn't publicly posted about it, otherwise you'd attack me about why I hadn't posted earlier about it then etc. I'm catching on to your head games, ZazieR, don't try to BS me.

Yet, you’re basing an attack against me for it. Why is that?

Cause you're a heavy mudslinger, who is also just like mastin in posting except you cut it up in chunks to make it look nicer, and because I think you're scum. Right now I put you at werewolf.

You sure that everyone else stated the same?
As of now, I can only remember you, DT and Scott saying this. Will look at other reactions later.
No, I''d have asked why you hadn''t posted it earlier. Well, as it seems you did think it was scummy, explain why you didn''t mention it before and why you said ''others'' when you state that you think it was scummy too.
And you didn''t answer the last question.
Besides, you''re not the only one who has compared my post style towards Mastin''s. Still waiting till players start voting me for a policy lynch though

Also, as answer, I asked him a question about it. If he’s scummy shouldn’t be based upon the vote, but the reason behind it. Now that I have it, his vote is scummy.

No shit it's scummy to you, you're the one I targeted.

I''m talking about Cain''s vote. Are you too? If si, I don''t understand what you''re saying here.

-Post 189. Responded to your responses. I’ve seen no misrep or the other things you’re accusing me off from my side. If you see so, show me.

Already did, please reread through the last couple of pages

Also, you are scummy. Your reason for your vote seems to be that I think you are scummy.

Nope, it was mainly for the mudslinging and the fact that as I was apparantly the most town until you showed up and tried to rip my credibility apart.

Then state them again. Because from the responses I got, it seems I''m n''t misrepping you.

CONCLUSION

ZazieR has been extremely distracting with his posts. Not only is it tedious to read and sort through, but the attacks made on most of the players [some more harshly than others] is causing everyone to have to spend their time replying to all of the questions and comments from ZazieR and defending themselves. What this has done is effectively prevent the rest of us from effectively scumhunting, and ZazieR has done no real scumhunting, because it's mainly all questions and no real accusations towards anyone, with a slight exception on my part...it is very clear we don't like each other right now. ZazieR stop posting these giant pieces of crap, focus on one or two people, and allow the rest of us to do the same. Because I have to keep defending myself and responding to multiple posts, I have not had the time to focus on those lurking by [cain just to name one]. If you are going to keep hounding me ZazieR, please a little less posting or condense it more. Less questions, more statements, more followthrough. Thanks.

In other words, policy vote.
Other things to point out: Stating that I should look at 1 or 2 players. Now, he wants me to pay attention to only one player (or two players), while before he didn''t want anyone to ''tunnelvision''.
And another thing, he states that I''m mainly attacking him. Meaning I am focussing on mainly one (and two players if you count DT).
Also, my questions shouldn''t stop others from scumhunting. It''s their choice if they only answer my question and do nothing else.

[ZazieR]

Post 101 – Nik comments for the second time about Post 86. The first time, it seemed rather passive, just a question. But in this post, it seems an attack, while he didn’t comment to Toro’s answer. So can you, Nik, post your thoughts about Toro’s answer?

I thought I had? To which answer are you referring? I see multiple posts that can be interpreted as an answer.

Post 88
Did you respond to that one?

[ZazieR]

I'm clearly losing this battle.

Guys, when I flip townie, it is my wish that you go after ZazieR. If flips anti-town, nik next.

This is fucking stupid.

Btw, hope you guys realise that because I'm losing the battle, it makes me more likely to be town. Mafia at least know who they are, same with werewolves, therefore they can gang up on an issue and make the other guy look bad. If a non mafia starts a case on me, the mafia arent gonna step in, and same if it were werewolves. All I can hope for are town support, which isn't gonna happen much.

No, it doesn''t. Nice AtE though.

[ZazieR]

theres a difference between asking questions to get answers, and then overloading the game with questions so that we're too busy answering questions to ask any of our own.

You have answered all of Zazie's questions. I do not see what is impeding you from asking questions now.

Good point from Nik. No response to this Saber?

[ZazieR]

Post 194 – Interested in hearing whom I’ve called useless,

Scott

That question doesn't make sense to me with the post you cited.

As for SW saying that zazier is distracting, at least he's posting. Half of the players are lurking or absent. I'd rather have something to go on. Nikanor's post is on target, especially with a 7v5 setup, we are more likely to hit an anti-town member by going after a lurker.

I know others have tried to make me look bad, but you tried the hardest, and I don't like it, especially as I haven't really done anything anti-town.

Meh you brought up some points about Zazier I agree with

about the list of 7 people being unhelpful and Cain's absense from that list

, but when you support a vote with the statement above, it looks like OMGUS. Voting someone because they make you look bad or because you think you haven't done anything anti-town isn't a stable case against a person.

I''m talking about the bolded. I''ve already explained why Cain wasn''t on the ''half-way through'' list. I added those players on that list for a reason. None of them being unhelpful. The closest who can be called ''unhelpful'' due to what I have stated are ThAd and Toro. Though I see that more as lurking. Especially Toro as I have stated before.
(Sorry, thought you said ''useless'' in that Post)

[ZazieR]

ok guys, I'm back. I had to take a couple hours off to cool down.

First of all, I would like to apologize to ZazieR. I normally get lynched day 1, and every time have turned up townie. For once I was happy, because initially in this game I had appeared as a good townie, and figured for once I'd make it to day 2. Then you came along and started ruining it for me. I will admit I started to OMGUS you and tunnel as well. I was probably too defensive, which lead to my own destruction. I still claim townie, and I almost was at the point where I was so pissed I was just gonna claim werewolf with two other random names and autowin it for the werewolves. Anyways, looking over it all, I think that in this case, I did not represent the towns as well as I should of, and for that, I probably don't deserve to be here.

unvote

I will now do an analysis of the whole game the best I can. Next post will be within an hour I hope.

First of all, it''s a game. I can''t stand losing, so I''ll try my best to win when active. It also leads to me being more aggressive (Tip: Never play soccer with me ).
(Short explanation why I behave like this as I''m very different outide games.)
Not going to apologise as I feel you are scum. If you are town, I''ll apologise at the end of the game.

Can you explain the auto-win comment?

[ZazieR]

And I just noticed that you (

Saber

) didn''t address the second part of my analysis. (Talking about my analysis from Post 193 and onwards.)
How come?

[ZazieR]

Holy spam, Zazie! But I guess this is your SOP so I'll get used to it.

Post 54: This would have more merit if Sabre didn't post his analysis on 67. Out of the 4 of us, the only one who didn't post an analysis was Hohum, which brings me to question:

Hohum, why didn't you do Sabre's request? Zazier, why didn't you point the finger at Hohum for this?

I, too, would be interested in answers to these questions.

Regarding Post 54: Yes, you did post your own list later on. After you were asked to do so. This is fake scumhunting. You’re trying to appear active by posting a question to let other scum hunt, while you aren’t doing it yourself. This also gives you at the same time the thoughts from the other players.

[ZazieR]

At least his spam has some content. You have done nothing in this game. There is a grace period since you replaced, but this is all you have to offer? No thoughts on anyone? Just piggybacking on a zazier question?

FoS: lumi

If you're looking with suspicion on people who've done nothing, there are far more useless people here than I. If you bothered to read, you'd know I have offered my thoughts on several people.

Pointing fingers.

[ZazieR]

Only responding to the part aimed at me right now (Post 289). Time is running out >.<

Question: why didn't you ask Hohum the same question you asked me, asking to provide links to games with Mastin and such?

I have seen Hohum go for a policy lynch before. So I asked for links from you to see how you reacted to Mastin in those games you''ve played with him before.

seem to not like Saberwolf, DTMaster, and Hohum, out of the whole lot.

HoHum could be to throw us off

, I feel more comfortable saying you just don't like Saberwolf and DTMaster.

What do you mean with the bolded?

ZazieR: Please tell me why the other three did not make your list?
I'm most interested in why ThAd makes the list, but Cain does not.
Is the list random, or in order of scumminess?

You mean ''other four''.
Lumi hadn''t posted yet.
I got good vibes from Cow and Nik.
Cain had only one post, which I wanted to judge based upon his reason for voting. ThAd came in with nothing to say, only asking if there was something important said the first few pages.
Later, Cain did something the same and I called him out on it. Had I seen that before posting the ''half-way through'' list, Cain would very likely have been mentioned as scummy.
And the list is random, besides the first three being the scummiest and the bottum four being less scummy.

[ZazieR]

Unvote. Vote:Cain

Because he just seems to be hiding.

Can you elaborate on this?

[ZazieR]

A majority of posts since my first were Zazie rehashing the early discussion. As none of that gave me a good read, it's not worth bothering to comment on.

Is it so odd to have mostly neutral reads on day 1? I don't really understand why you're singling me out for attack while ignoring the people who have offered nothing at all. In fact, you haven't opined much more than I have.

Again, pointing fingers.

[ZazieR]

Comments

@Sabre/Zazier Meta Call

Unfortunately the search button is disabled to fix the memory leaks, so unless someone archives their games (or updates their wiki pages), it might be difficult to track the games down.

Saber did you keep your role PMs?

Also you could ask Mastin for those meta links. Maybe that'll help.

You are talking about multiple players here (You''re using plural). So who is/are the other/others you are talking about?

[ZazieR]

4. Kill-Kill: You are keeping your vote on Cain but you mentioned that his meta involved some odd mistakes (ie town claiming scum, etc). Why did you keep your vote if you knew Cain's town meta was poor and you outlined he was looked like he was acting noobish in your ISO 3?

First of all, being noobish as a townie in no way helps the town. However, the main reason is his willingness to jump on the Mastin bandwagon. If he had been trying to use the bandwagon to scum hunt, he would have followed up with questions, suspicions, something. I think his inexperience led him to believe that he could lynch someone who wasn't in his faction early, when an experienced player would know that the wagon would never get a lynch without evidence.

The timing and that you only answered one of the three questions are both noted.

[ZazieR]

@Kill-kill
It is true, but you are also guilty of doing the something. You are tunneling on Cain without actively scum hunting him (ie asking him questions). Your recent arguments only read as: I am pressing him because he is newb and anti-town, not I'm pressing him because he is scummy.

Your ISO 3 supports this statement:

About all I have now is a feeling that out of hohum, nikanor, and DTM one is scum. Cain could either be scummy or just plain weird, and Toro seems to be tunnelling on Cain, without solid reasons (I understand there are reasons, I am just saying I don't consider them enough to bring out the pitchforks)

Your vote and your reasoning do not make sense. You were the one to bring up his meta as being very noobish in your ISO 3, what is different from his last game to this game to suggest his current actions are scummy?

Scott brings up a good point with his 305 that you are actively lurking, you only responded to my number 4, the only question that was directed to you individually.

You skipped my number 1 and number 3 questions which is addressed to both you and Cain. Why? What are your responses to them?

This is a very good post.
Anyway, as for your (

Kill

) responses, there are two things:
Your ISO 3 doesn''t only state what DT quoted. But also that you see him as just inexperienced. In the same post, you think that one of Hohum, Nik and DT is scum. Yet, you kept your random vote on Cain.
Secondly, I was the one who asked Cain about his vote. I replaced into this game, and looking at the time stamps, you could have asked him before me. You choose not to do so. Why?

[ZazieR]

Ok, skimmed over the last few posts as I get there eventually, but this is something I want to address:

BTW Zazie, grats on the "special someone". :p

There is a guy I like and we're working towards it, but there is no relationship yet >.< Working towards it takes a lot of time due to which my games are suffering >.<
Anyway, I'm going to continue my analysis now.

[ZazieR]

Back. Will look into what I've missed tomorrow.

[ZazieR]

Post 181 – Toro, Cain explained why he joined the bandwagon in Post 176. Why no response to it when you are attacking him over it?

I feel that we can still put the pressure on Cain over this issue if Saberwolf gets some of the pressure off of him, or on D2. But as of right now my vote is still with Saber and I'm happy to leave it there.

Pretty sure you were voting Cain at the time of Post 181. So why didn't you respond to it then?

(Also, note that this is at Page 13 and I have a bad internet connection right now ._.)

[ZazieR]

@Kill-kill
1. Yes voting is another way to pressure someone to answer is another method of scum hunting. No you can't say that you don't have questions to ask Cain in the midst of this. Even I had asked both you and Cain questions to answer for your lurker charges. Your hypothetical situation showing that you cannot question scum hunt Cain to me is just a bad excuse to not participate in the town discussion and to continue on with active lurking.

Cain has three posts. Do you really think questioning him would be effective?

Mastin had 0 posts. Do you think questioning him would be effective when you think this? Please explain how this isn't hypocrism (Did I write it correct O.o?)

This suggests that he is still developing his style. If you are basing your argument on this point you still need to answer for the whole

inexperience part of his meta that you gave us

.

I did. I feel he is inexperienced scum. Do you have any reason to believe that he is not scum?

This quote disagrees:

Post 88 –

Toro

, can you elaborate how you get this impression?

I had a feeling that Cain was just not really throwing a random vote around since it was just RVS, seeing how he quickly and without really saying anything else just latched right onto the Mastin bandwagon. I don't know Cain's meta really, so I think from looking at that we may have caught inexperienced scum.

I think just inexperienced, period. He fake-claimed scum day one in the other game I am in, and just got lynched (vanilla townie).

[ZazieR]

@Kill-kill

Also is that all you have to reply to in my 317 post? I'm pretty sure I said more then that one question.

This. Why didn't you answer the other questions in the same post?

[ZazieR]

wow, three votes, some people really hate me. I have no role to claim to keep me safe, all i can do is tell you im town. The reason i sit back and watch is because this is only my third gama and im just watching, still having very little input, and yeah i know it looks scummy,

but if i posted just lots of random posts then chances are i would be suspected of told im stupid

. I cant decribe how hew i am to this game, and trying to pick scum tell things up to try and help.

First of all, the fast claim. I'd have liked to hear why he did that.
Newbie defence is noted.
But the worst thing of all is the bolded. Afraid of suspicion. The bolded especially is bad when you take into account that he claimed scum once in a game.

[ZazieR]

1. Yes because ignoring those questions and "playing anti-town" is another argument against Cain if he doesn't answer them. I don't see how questioning would not be beneficial in your case against Cain, not questioning him is much worse in my opinion.

No, the response would be "Well, he hasn't posted at all, it's not suspicious that he didn't answer." Speaking of which, now he has posted, and did not answer any of your questions.

Planning to change your vote in the near future?

This time,

DT

, it's scummy.
But it seems you didn't point it out this time. How come?

[ZazieR]

prod recieved! sorry, had my computer in the shop over the past three days getting fixed! all good now!

wow, three votes, some people really hate me. I have no role to claim to keep me safe, all i can do is tell you im town. The reason i sit back and watch is because this is only my third gama and im just watching, still having very little input, and yeah i know it looks scummy, but if i posted just lots of random posts then chances are i would be suspected of told im stupid. I cant decribe how hew i am to this game, and trying to pick scum tell things up to try and help.

Hope this make things clearer, if not just ask!

With you just posting this and now just bowing out, you

are

stupid.

Sorry to make it all blunt like that. But yeah, and I'll get on this to add some more pressure...

Unvote

Vote: Cain

Have to look more into this,

Zaz

[ZazieR]

Unvote

Completely forgot i had a vote active.

@DT - What questions is it you need answered?

To all with a vote on me, get me lynched and you will see that i am infact a townie, thats all i can really do in my defense, i know it isn't exactly convincing, but this is giving mafia the perfect opertunity to join in and get the deciding vote on my head.

That is all for now.

Knowing he had a vote active, but not knowing what questions DT had asked towards him. Once again, that needed an explanation as the previous VC was on the same page as the questions.
Sign of non-interest and AtE are both noted.

[ZazieR]

Some quick comments when I was looking when Saber would respond to my posts (Haven't seen them yet when I looked till page 16) and skimmed over some posts.
I could do them in seperate posts though, but I know that many won't like that

Not liking it that Cain didn't answer DT's questions.
Will respond later to DT's post towards me.
And welcome to the replacements (Saw that Shotty replaced into this game as well) ^.^

[ZazieR]

After reading this I wondered why his stance on Cain has drastically changed to wanting to lynch him after discarding my reasons that I stated originally as reasons that weren't enough to warrant a Cain-lynch.

I dunno, I could be reading too much into this, or I could be onto something. Zaz, your thoughts?

As said, not liking the vote. I first only saw that he changed from "inexperienced" to "inexperienced scum" for the same reasons.
Now, there have also been other things added. Like how he called Cain out for not questioning Mastin, but how he himself didn't question Cain.

But why did you only ask me?

[ZazieR]

Secondly, I was the one who asked Cain about his vote. I replaced into this game, and looking at the time stamps, you could have asked him before me. You choose not to do so. Why?

I already answered this, but, with his activity, I didn't see the point. I also already explained why I only answered one question: namely, I misread and didn't think the other two were addressed to me, and I answered them in my next post.

Toro, his behavior since then has changed my mind. He is my number one scum candidate, so my vote is on him.

Yep, hypocrite.
Also, your talking about a change of behaviour when you're responding to Toro. When was this change of behaviour?

[ZazieR]

Hello everyone, just got word that I've replaced Cain. Seeing how he has 5 votes on him already I believe I've got my work cut out for me.

I read the thread (before I got my role) once yesterday hoping for a headstart if I got added to the game. With one read through my general feeling is Saber is scummiest acting

(well actually, I would have voted Cain had I not been him as he appeared as a newb scum to me.)

unvote vote: Saber

To me Saber started flipping out when pressured then pretty quickly changed to a more calm approach. Seems to me one of his scum buddies advised him to chill out...and maybe fed him some ideas.

Why did you point out the bolded?
As for Post 385, if you think there are anti-town players on your wagon, then why didn't you look at those players before?

[ZazieR]

and his analysis ONLY of the people who voted Cain still sound anti-town to me.

I explained the reasoning for that and if you choose to outrightly act like I did not explain that reasoning then I can only assume you are trying to manipulate others thoughts in this regard.

Instead of saying "he only focused on those voting Cain" why don't you tear apart my reasoning instead. Then no one is misled by you into thinking I did a huge OMGUS tunnel on 5 players.

When I get the opportunity (meaning several hours of free time) I'll post my thoughts on other players.

Still bad excuse. Instead of looking at the scummiest player of the game, you looked at the scummiest player of a specific group.
Also, you read the game before you replaced into it. Shouldn't you have had opinions of the other players already?

[ZazieR]

Don't like Post 407.
Pretty much, because you could find most reasons for his thoughts in earlier posts.
And then there's also the wrong statement regarding Toro. But I need to look if it was itentional or not.
Also, the advice in it, quoted if needed later:

State your reasons so you at least appear to be scum hunting.

[ZazieR]

How is my question filler? Obviously I think you are anti-town since my vote is still on you. SW hasn't posted in a awhile so I inquired about his vote. What do you want me to answer?

DT didn't overreact to the stupid Mastin beginning of this game and has been informative and questioning many people. So a town lean.

Hohum seemed to be antagonizing DT and keeping that Mastin argument going too long. But he has disappeared.

I was told this is Toro's style of play. Of course style of play is a factor. Do you play the same style of play when you are town and scum?

Toro: Obviously I am aware that Cain/peace are 2 different players. That doesn't mean we forget about the replaced player though.

Better stuff imo than just saying someone is scum/town/nuetral.

*Counts the amount of questions*
*Counts the amount of answers*
Something isn't right there. They don't match. Why?

(Practicing for RL ^.^)

[ZazieR]

Contrary to what I've said above, I get the feeling peacesells is town. First, he mistakes scum for being able to talk during the day, which I think is a minor townslip. On this subject, where else have you played mafia, peacesells?
Also, instead of immediately pushing your wagon, saber, he goes and votes someone completely different. His votehop in his first two posts is borderline scummy (change this to 'extremely scummy' if saber flips scum), but refusing to push an opposing bandwagon is a towntell, imo (unless that opposing bandwagon flips scum, in which case it's a scumtell).

Disagreed with both reasons.
First, Peace has claimed that he has read this game before he replaced into this game.
Second, he did try to push a Saber-wagon. But as it was pointed out that his attack didn't make sense, he had to 'retreat'.

[ZazieR]

Can you list your top three scumspects please?

I'll give you top two...how about that? Scott and Lumi. I'm sorry but I thought I made it clear Lumi was scummy imo on the original breakdown. Lumi being 2nd on the list = less scummy than Scott.

Please breakdown how most of the post was fence sitting? I'm pretty sure I came hard at Scott and Lumi for their actions.

Weren't Lumi and Scott the top 2 scummiest players of those voting you? Does this mean you have looked at the remaining players then?
Gut activated on the last part of the quote.

[ZazieR]

\o/

I saw later that you explained why you've been inactive. Why not in the above post?
And you may have been busy for a week, but what about the days before that?

[ZazieR]

Again these are opinions. We'd do a better job of scum hunting if you reacted more to my points made in that whole post on whether you agree or not than picking on my particular semantics.

Gut activated.

[ZazieR]

unvote; vote: hohum

the hell with this, if he isn't scum, he's a liability.

Why no vote earlier?
Also,

Zaz

, reminder to look back.

[ZazieR]

Nik, peace, I'll offer my opinion on this after you two do, but do either of you want to respond to Saber's 444?

Why those two players and why did you ask for their opinions before stating your own?

And interesting how you didn't scold peacesells as how you did me.

Where should Saber have done so according to you?

[ZazieR]

that pretty much sums it up.

1. He has done NOTHING to assist town. No scumhunting done at all
2. He is obviously around,and if was really unable to play, would at least post a V/LA bit.
3. If we keep him around, it's gonna fuck us over in the future, cause he's such an unclear we won't know what to do with him

I think we need to get rid of him unless he steps it up.

Noted for now.
Might get back to this later.

Zaz reminder

[ZazieR]

Continuing from Page 19

Why don't we wait a day and then we can put the pressure on Hohum?

Why did you want to wait?

So if Hohum has anything to say you don't want to hear it?

Mmhmm.

Vote: Saberwolf

Misrep.

[ZazieR]

Toro...I pretty much agree with you but I also see the value of lynching someone who is not helping and possibly scum lurking.

If it didn't come from Saber

...I'd give it more credance.

Why does the bolded matter?

[ZazieR]

I guess we are gonna have to vote Hohum just to force a response from him.

unvote Scott Vote Hohum

What response did you want from him?

[ZazieR]

First off, welcome to the game SttB!

And secondly, this is just bulls**t (w/ hohum), it's been about 18 hours now so I feel ready to put a vote on now. Although I say we don't put on anymore 'til a couple hours from now.

Unvote

Vote: Hohum

Not liking this vote at all. Before, he thought that Saber's vote against Hohum was an attempt to get the suspicion somewhere else, and Toro stated that he didn't like this. Here, he's doing doing exactly what he thought Saber was trying to do.

[ZazieR]

Hohum

needs to explain why he didn't vote Cow in this post. But did so one minute after this post.

[ZazieR]

\o/

Not really a smiley face...heh...looks like the other end

The point of this post?

[ZazieR]

cow's going for an easy lynch target. Scum love to hide behind lurker hunts.

Using a generalisation as attack. Scummy.

[ZazieR]

It isn't horrible logic at all. Others can wagon me for lurking if they want to. That's one thing. You took it one step further by inventing fathom posts that I am NOT making.

It's not good enough for yoy to call me on the shit I actually did. You need to manufacture evidence to support your case, because you've literally got nothing.

You did post during the time you were absent here.
Also, not liking the first part where he says that others may wagon him for lurking if they want to, while before saying that scum loves to hide behind lurker hunts.

[ZazieR]

It isn't horrible logic at all. Others can wagon me for lynching. That's one thing. You took it one step further by inventing fathom posts that I am NOT making.

It's not good enough for yoy to call me on the shit I actually did. You need to manufacture evidence to support your case, because you've literally got nothing.

you're posting now, and I unvoted.
I can't find evidence on you posting elsewhere, but you said "I'm modding, that takes precedence" which is blatantly posting in other games. If you were going to have trouble being in games, replace out or let us know, don't just stop posting, because it looks bad, especially if you're modding a game, because that will lead to assumptions that you're posting in other games instead of here.

Gut activated.

[ZazieR]

This whole discussion about when it is and isn't acceptable to reference games is a giant distraction. Stop it. Now.

I don't care. I'd much rather be distracting and end up losing this game than let everyone go through the game not understanding site rules, which could get you modkilled and/or banned from the whole site for breaking.

No. Make a note that it's not allowed, but that's it.
This discussion resulted in some players active lurking.

[ZazieR]

Wait my bad.

Unvote

Vote: Hohum

Hohum posted in other games after the 17th. Some are lengthy posts I just checked the September time stamps and misread. Has' case is verified.

In that case then my vote stays where it is.

You hadn't checked for yourself? How come?

[ZazieR]

Don't you think I'd have taken off my vote on him of his original bandwagon if we were aligned together when it reached L-2?

Trying to use WIFOM to defend himself against an accusation is noted.

[ZazieR]

@Town
Just playing on Scott's post, verify my conclusions because the more lengthy posts were done in one game. A lot of the other ones were one-liners and across the board Hohum did do his emote in a couple of games after a quick skim. Your thoughts?

Still scummy as he has mostly, if not only, discussed his disappearance in this game ever since he has gotten back.

[ZazieR]

Gut activated due to this post from

DT

[ZazieR]

@zazier:

while I appreciate that you're posting, I

really

dislike the spam. I don't care if it's SOP for you, it's distracting and borderline scummy. Please try to rein it in. Thanks.

No.
Also, noted how you changed the subject from Hohum to me after DT and Shotty pointed out that Hohum had posted in other games during the time he was absent in this game. Something, you saw as very scummy.

[ZazieR]

It's part of his meta to do this (which I'm waiting for the link to the reasoning behind it Zazie).

Here
I see two other methods I can use to post. Put everything in a very long post (Described in the link why it's bad) or orden everything for each player in seperate posts. Did the second once. Looking at it, I posted I would orden everything around 1.45 PM my time. These posts followed a bit after 4 PM my time. Don't know if anything interfered. But this is way too much time in my opinion. Add that I'm slow at analysing and it gets worse.
So I'm sticking with this style until something else seems better.

[ZazieR]

I spend all my time trying to figure out which of zazier's posts are directed at who instead of actually looking at what he's saying.

Should I use quoteboxes with names, bold and colours in every post from now on? Or is looking at the quotebox or a bolded name enough?
In other words, it should be pretty clear at whom my posts are aimed.

I feel like it's just zazier trying to throw out as much info as possible so that anything that is scummy is just ignored due to the massive number of words.

Sorry, but I think that more info is better. And the scummy points do get pointed out.


(This post was for

Cow

)

[ZazieR]

ThAd

's catch-up posts feel a lot like summaries of what happened, instead of scumhunting. Not liking this.
Also, (

And this goes for everyone

) pick a color. From now on, I'll use bold and your colour when I addres you. Happy

Cow

?

[ZazieR]

would like to say for the record i was the one who initially thought ZazieR's wall splices were scummy.

Though I don't like how Saber tries to get town-points here, he does make an interesting point.

Cow

, how come you didn't point your opinion out about the way I post when Saber commented on it?

[ZazieR]

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

Well, if someone we were about to lynch ends up geting nk'd, it's better for the town because it gives us more of a chance to hit scum with our lynch, and it forces scum to use their nk on a potential mislynch.
On that note, if someone falseclaims seer, I recommend the true seer to not counterclaim until the day before lylo, so that we get as many investigations in as possible, while still leaving room for a mislynch to confirm or deny the seer's counterclaim.

This.
Though I had prefered it if the discussion about claiming could have waited.

[ZazieR]

Finally found why I don't like this post:

Oh btw town Hohum is L-2 FYI. Usually this is the claim point if the town is leaning in this direction.

Soft-push for a claim.

[ZazieR]

Is this working well in hohum's favour though?...all he's gotta do is read the threads and act accordingly now that we prematurly set the stage up with this whole discussion. However it is almost a guarantee now that he won't live past night 1.

Way to try to discredit a potential seer claim by hohum.
And it's almost guaranteed he won't live through night one IF he claims seer.

I'm not discrediting anything. I actually feel bad for hohum, as he's stuck betwen a rock and a hard place. If Hohum does claim seer, I will gladly get off and put my vote on somebody else...particularly DTMaster for tactfully setting up this whole conversation.

Agreed with Nik that if Saber didn't like to post about it, he should have stopped this convo. And to make things worse, he explains in full detail in Post 569 how things can work out for Hohum and DT if they are scum together and hohum claims seer.

[ZazieR]

I kind of agree with scott.

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

This is giving me a really bad vibe from both you and Scott now, sounds as

if you two are werewolves

and you'd want to make sure that Hohum (if he's the seer) doesn't speak to try and clear himself.

Unvote

Vote: Saberwolf

Why can we only be werewolves? Since you are mafia and know your other members? Mafia-slip perhaps?

The seer doesn't investigate for mafia, only werewolves. So mafia would have a lot more reason to fear the seer than a werewolf would.

Also, to confirm...

If someone claims seer and isn't the seer, the real seer should not counterclaim!

The fake seer will get killed at night.

Oh? How come (Regarding the bolded)?

[ZazieR]

All, I've been gone the past few days, unexpected out of town trip with my father-n-law.

There has been a ton of day one analyzing going on, so much so that it is going to be difficult to see the forrest through the trees so to speak.

Vote histories will speak volumes at this point and

hohum

should be fine to get that started.

I believe this puts him at L-1...if this doesn't prod him, nothing will and we'll just have to live with the results and use the votes for analyzing future lynch subjects.

Not liking this vote.

Or the accusations and threat against Saberwolf (and later the accusations against Cow as well)

[ZazieR]

simply eh?

Just hope that Hohum turns up scum..otherwise..........

what the heck are you talking about? You're attacking saberwolf for correcting you? How incredibly ridiculous.

FoS

Are you and Saber scum partners? Why would a town player be so exasperated by one little comment? Why would you be defending him on day 1?

Why are you pinning the blame of the hohum wagon on saber Peace?

I am not blaming Saber for the wagon.

I just think he is eager for the lynch. Didn't take long for him to "catch" my voting mistake and comment on it. I think (purely my conjecture) that he wants this to really go through and was tuned in to "seeing" a voting mistake and pointed it out quickly. I would chalk this up as a psychological gamble on my part.

And, I purposely worded things they way I did to get a reaction from Saber. The reaction from Has was just a bonus.

Explain why you think Saber is a player who wants a lynch on Hohum, instead of a player who notified you of a wrong mistake.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP

simply eh?

Just hope that Hohum turns up scum..otherwise..........

what the heck are you talking about? You're attacking saberwolf for correcting you? How incredibly ridiculous.

FoS

Are you and Saber scum partners? Why would a town player be so exasperated by one little comment? Why would you be defending him on day 1?

Why are you pinning the blame of the hohum wagon on saber Peace?

I am not blaming Saber for the wagon.

I just think he is eager for the lynch. Didn't take long for him to "catch" my voting mistake and comment on it. I think (purely my conjecture) that he wants this to really go through and was tuned in to "seeing" a voting mistake and pointed it out quickly. I would chalk this up as a psychological gamble on my part.

And, I purposely worded things they way I did to get a reaction from Saber. The reaction from Has was just a bonus.

Explain why you think Saber is a player who wants a lynch on Hohum

eager

, instead of a player who notified you of a wrong mistake.

[ZazieR]

RE: Bolded: Isn't that what town should be looking for? Little comments that show alignment.

Wasn't I doing the same? Looking at a "Little comment" to see alignment?

Do you dictate which comments are little enough?

Are you really that exasperated that I would have the nerve to try and do something that you just said is what we are supposed to be doing?

Really....

so telling you that you screwed up voting now tells alignment?

It was a very obvious fake-vote. He was hoping someone would try to hammer and he could say "HAHA U R SCUM!". I must say, definitely +scum points for peace.

Peace

, what do you have to say about this?

[ZazieR]

@Town

Would we even gain that much information from Hohum's lynch? It is day one, yes you would rather go for a lynch, but in terms of information based on character interactions we wind up with very little since he hasn't posted anything substantial.

Oh should answer my own question first:

I was trying to see Hohum's reaction based on my meta evidence I provided to support Has' case. So far this isn't working too well. :<

From an information standpoint we gain little from Hohum for the lack of posting he did. From just a general town play perspective its heavily anti-town, especially when he could V/LA or replace out if he's so busy. :<

Second quote activates my gut.
As for your question, yes. Seems like a final attempt to get a different lynch than Hohum.

Zaz Reminder

[ZazieR]

@Nik

I'm only leaning towards a Hohum lynch because he blatantly lied about his meta. If we wanted to go forward in terms of information you would lean towards a Sabre or Peace lynch.

And now it seems, you do want a Hohum lynch.
So if you do want a Hohum lynch, why did you ask the question about a Hohum lynch and information?

You know if townie really hammered before deadline, I would be more suspect of the hammerer then anything. It's scummy to hammer pre-defense and before deadline.

Why state this 'warning'?

[ZazieR]

that's the L-1 vote BTW>

wrong. I am at L-2

Mod, ZazieR unvoted, so I have one less vote.

No, I didn't.
(Going to analyse the last few bits now)

[ZazieR]

Regarding the

DT-Kill

discussion.
I don't understand #1 in this post.
The coaching arguments against DT from

Kill

don't seem like coaching to me. I'm also interested why these got brought up already.

DT

needs to explain why he didn't vote Kill in the same post with his unvote, but HoS'ed him instead.

[ZazieR]

Lynch all Liars is stupid as well. It is sometimes pro-town to lie. I probably lie more as town than I do as scum, simply because it is occasionally pro-town to do so.
Take now, for instance. I haven't looked into it myself, but I'll assume you're all telling the truth when you say that hohum has been making large posts in other games. Would it have been beneficial to the town for townhohum to tell the truth that he's been lurking? No. I've gone down that road myself as town, thinking that honesty is the correct path, and admitting to lurking. It distracted the town, and eventually contributed to my mislynch in lylo.

But in Hohum's case, he lied to try and get the attention away from him. And in this case, it's scummy. Do you agree? If not, why?

[ZazieR]

3.

You really don't. Your attack is based on not understanding or intentionally misunderstanding what I said. I do disagree with his play. I was describing WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO.

You can't do this. This is called WIFOM reasoning because

you can only think you know what he does

for you are not Peace. The only way you can know this if

you are scum with Peace and knows what he is thinking

.

This is impossible for you to do.

Oh? (Regarding the part in italics)

4. I didn't edit my post nor unvoted in a post after my reasoning. I cannot see how unvoting hohum when I think Kill is more scummy is scummy in itself when Nik just said it's townie to do this.

I also unvoted before Nik said anything about this.

Nik's point was that you were soft-defending Hohum (By asking if this lynch would give us that much information), while being one of the Hohum voters.

[ZazieR]

If this wagon is going to be derailed, I want to see good reason to shift my vote, but we need to do something soon..I will not allow scum to force us into a no lynch, when that is not in town's best interests. To be real honest though, I'm finding that the whole lot of us are getting mighty paranoid...the slightest defence of somebody or the smallest comment gets us all worked up and making assumptions about each other. Granted, a few of these assumptions could be right, but I find that we aren't fully scumhunting as we are just pointing fingers at whoever talks back at us.

Not liking it when a preach gets given how somebody doesn't want a no-lynch, but doesn't try to convince others to vote the player he's voting.
Though I do appreciate it that you wanted to hear from me ^.^

[ZazieR]

Due to DT's post that follows after that post from Saber,

Kill

needs to explain something:
In Post 631, you state that it's pro-town of DT to be against a Hohum lynch. When Nik states that DT was still voting Hohum at that point, you vote DT. Yet, in Post 631, you pointed out that DT had switched his vote towards Hohum. So explain how you thought it was pro-town in Post 631.

[ZazieR]

I was probably unclear when "I said it was impossible for you to do", it should be read "it's impossible as a townie for you to do". As scum it's very possible to know.

IGMEOY, DTM.

This.

[ZazieR]

unvote; vote: hohum

the hell with this, if he isn't scum, he's a liability.

Why no vote earlier?
Also,

Zaz

, reminder to look back.

because I was waiting for more input from hohum, but when I realised that the \O/ was the best we were gonna get, I got fed up and voted for him.

I also made some posts towards you before this 'spam fest' (See the posts made the 28th my time)

[ZazieR]

I'm sorry you don't need to point it out, I've found it. When he posted that I thought he was just making statements and I have no clue what he means by "Gut Activated." Does he need a TUMS?

So to answer his questions in the order he asked: Yes, No.

You had multiple posts to respond to. Why didn't you respond to the other ones?
"Gut activated" means that your post, there was something due to which my mind says you are scummy.

P.S. What's TUMS?

[ZazieR]

@Sabre...
You just gave scum "the anti town argument" to vote against you if you were townie.

Like this?:

Two days self implosion. :< If you are going to hang this in the background then scum hunting can't take place. It's a giant elephant in the room and we need to deal with this now.

Unvote

Vote: Sabrewolf

Scum hunt now and I'll unvote.

[ZazieR]

@Sabre...
You just gave scum "the anti town argument" to vote against you if you were townie.

Like this?:

Two days self implosion. :< If you are going to hang this in the background then scum hunting can't take place. It's a giant elephant in the room and we need to deal with this now.

Unvote

Vote: Sabrewolf

Scum hunt now and I'll unvote.

Seems Nik also pointed this out. Yet, I haven't seen a response from DT about it yet.

[ZazieR]

@TOWN

This is the time to meta sabre's games now. I have a bad vibe on this. This goes against the town play I know sabre is capable of.

Why not do so yourself if you have a bad vibe?

[ZazieR]

dying thoughts: I have gotten more info out of this than the entire rest of the time playing. I shall give input just before i die...or at least just before i go to bed.

screw it, i'm just gonna say nik is obvscum.

he's taking the all concerned of my innocence approach, the only one mind you, and I'm reading through it as the bullshit it is.

I dont think DTMaster is scum.

Scott is leaning scum to me, but its harder to say.

First of all, Saber's trolling posts. Scummy.
And in this post, I don't like how he calls Nik obvscum, but doesn't vote him.

[ZazieR]

Continuing from Page 19

Why don't we wait a day and then we can put the pressure on Hohum?

Why did you want to wait?

What, you wouldn't want to give Hohum a chance to speak and defend himself?

IGMEOY: Zazier

Second time you've tried to get away from this question. The first time, that player even got your vote.
Also, putting pressure on somebody is not the same as wanting to lynch that player. You make it sound as if that's the case.

Anyway, I'd have given Hohum a chance to speak and to defend himself. Have I stated otherwise?

So if Hohum has anything to say you don't want to hear it?

Mmhmm.

Vote: Saberwolf

Misrep.

Could you explain what you mean here Zaz?

As said, putting pressure on a player is not the same as lynching that player.

[ZazieR]

To people who claim I'm misrepresenting them, do you see where I'm coming from though when I say that you might not want to here what Hohum would've said?

No. Do, explain.

[ZazieR]

@ zazier: are you going to vote for someone?
(if so, go with scott)

I'm already voting Saber.
And as deadline is in a few hours, another player should vote Saber.

[ZazieR]

Post 708: A minute discrepancy is something extremely picky to look at.

For all we know Hohum could have posted his original post at 3:34:59 and did his vote shortly after. The fact that hohum posted within a minute between each post in a double post just signify that the two should be linked together as one post.

There's a reason why I've asked Hohum in particular about this. May he please respond first?

714: I checked the google meta call on hohum. In fact it was this post that I corrected myself since I double check the time stamps and confirmed Hohum posted in other games after the 17th. I misread because across the board he posted on Sept 3rd with the same post in all his games.

I was the first person to check so its misrep from you to say I didn't meta checked. I even outlined how to google search hohum's games when the bar was down.

Post 714 is aimed at Toro.

735: So I assume you are saying 2 things here, let me clarify if this is right:

1. We would gain information here.
2. You make the point that it looks like I'm deflecting the lynch away from Hohum.

What kind of information would you gain from Hohum? You seem to insinuate something along those lines with number 2 here.

For information:
-We can look at votes and reasons behind them.
-We can look at the 3 remaining (or perhaps 2) players of the 'Four Horsemen'.

739: I was asked the question to weigh the pros and cons of lynching hohum. We have no strong reads on him. He's generally playing anti-town and the meta evidence from the google search confirmed he's lying.

This doesn't answer why you asked the question about a Hohum lynch and information if you're in favor of lynching him.

I'm still awaiting his response but his classes take priority here.

I'm more interested in his response to my posts.

[ZazieR]

Alright, that's the pot stirred, now let's play.


This was a gambit on my part, and most likely will get lynched, but I think we have seen some interesting views from people as of late.

I am very much eager to keep playing, so my vote will now go to use.

vote: nikanor

cause I don't buy your concerned for townie ploy. I call BS.

This post doesn't sit well with me at all. He's under considerable pressure here and rather than have a conversation with the rest of us he attempts to deflect by lashing out at people.

the vote reads like a pressure vote (weak reasoning).

Deadline looms

. I'd like to actually see your CASE on Nikanor. You might just have enough time left to convince someone to reconsider.

Vote, Sabrewolf

The italics bit is scummy.

[ZazieR]

Regardless I still think the real seer should wait until at least one negative result before claiming. What do you think?

As said before, if there's a fake-claim, the seer shouldn't counter-claim until we arrive at the day before we reach Lylo. During the days before, he should hint at his results.

[ZazieR]

Okay, before I head out to lunch let me post my response.

Second time you've tried to get away from this question. The first time, that player even got your vote.
Also, putting pressure on somebody is not the same as wanting to lynch that player. You make it sound as if that's the case.

Anyway, I'd have given Hohum a chance to speak and to defend himself. Have I stated otherwise?

To now answer your question, we should've waited a day in order for Hohum to speak up and defend himself, instead of just rushing in there and lynching him for his well...stupidness.

You could've just said that in response to my question to your question.

@ThAdmiral: Are you trying to stick up for your buddy Saberwolf? And you know what I mean by buddy.

As said, putting pressure is not the same as lynching.
Do you think this is the case?

[ZazieR]

dying thoughts: I have gotten more info out of this than the entire rest of the time playing. I shall give input just before i die...or at least just before i go to bed.

screw it, i'm just gonna say nik is obvscum.

he's taking the all concerned of my innocence approach, the only one mind you, and I'm reading through it as the bullshit it is.

I dont think DTMaster is scum.

Scott is leaning scum to me, but its harder to say.

First of all, Saber's trolling posts. Scummy.
And in this post, I don't like how he calls Nik obvscum, but doesn't vote him.

i did vote for him. my current vote is nik,

Afterwards, but not in the post we're talking about.

[ZazieR]

Also, the scum:
-Saber
-Kill
-Hohum
-Peace

I'm having doubts between 2 players for the fifth spot.

[ZazieR]

I also hate it when people kill of zazie regardless

So do I
Good Luck Town.

[ZazieR]

Cow was obv buddy with Hohum (Connection between the two). I was really surprised that he was accused of being mafia.

I'm curious why the mafia thought I was a Wolf.