Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835


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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:05 pm

Post by Shotty to the Body »

I just finished my re-read I'll get a full rundown on everyone tomorrow, but this argument has just gone downhill.
Hohum wrote:It isn't horrible logic at all. Others can wagon me for lynching. That's one thing. You took it one step further by inventing fathom posts that I am NOT making.

It's not good enough for yoy to call me on the shit I actually did. You need to manufacture evidence to support your case, because you've literally got nothing.
DTMaster wrote:Wait my bad.

Unvote

Vote: Hohum


Hohum posted in other games after the 17th. Some are lengthy posts I just checked the September time stamps and misread. Has' case is verified.
You said yourself lynch all liars Hohum, what do you have to say?

Clearly, one side here is abusing the fact that the search function is down and that kind of gameplay is downright dishonest, this may sound silly in a game based around deception but this borders on something else. At any rate, this is a discussion for the gameplay ethics forum and I would ask everyone to take the time to go through the google search and confirm the facts for themselves as I will be doing.
"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest." -Confucius
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:36 pm

Post by DTMaster »

@Town
Just playing on Scott's post, verify my conclusions because the more lengthy posts were done in one game. A lot of the other ones were one-liners and across the board Hohum did do his emote in a couple of games after a quick skim. Your thoughts?

@Has/Hohum
Just because the search bar is down doesn't mean we can't do meta calls on you. :p <3 the power of Google.
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:00 am

Post by ZazieR »

Toro wrote:
Post 181 – Toro, Cain explained why he joined the bandwagon in Post 176. Why no response to it when you are attacking him over it?


I feel that we can still put the pressure on Cain over this issue if Saberwolf gets some of the pressure off of him, or on D2. But as of right now my vote is still with Saber and I'm happy to leave it there.
Pretty sure you were voting Cain at the time of Post 181. So why didn't you respond to it then?

(Also, note that this is at Page 13 and I have a bad internet connection right now ._.)
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:09 am

Post by ZazieR »

Kill-kill wrote:
DTMaster wrote:@Kill-kill
1. Yes voting is another way to pressure someone to answer is another method of scum hunting. No you can't say that you don't have questions to ask Cain in the midst of this. Even I had asked both you and Cain questions to answer for your lurker charges. Your hypothetical situation showing that you cannot question scum hunt Cain to me is just a bad excuse to not participate in the town discussion and to continue on with active lurking.
Cain has three posts. Do you really think questioning him would be effective?
Mastin had 0 posts. Do you think questioning him would be effective when you think this? Please explain how this isn't hypocrism (Did I write it correct O.o?)
Kill wrote:
This suggests that he is still developing his style. If you are basing your argument on this point you still need to answer for the whole
inexperience part of his meta that you gave us
.
I did. I feel he is inexperienced scum. Do you have any reason to believe that he is not scum?
This quote disagrees:
Kill-kill wrote:
Toro wrote:
ZazieR wrote:Post 88
Toro
, can you elaborate how you get this impression?
I had a feeling that Cain was just not really throwing a random vote around since it was just RVS, seeing how he quickly and without really saying anything else just latched right onto the Mastin bandwagon. I don't know Cain's meta really, so I think from looking at that we may have caught inexperienced scum.
I think just inexperienced, period. He fake-claimed scum day one in the other game I am in, and just got lynched (vanilla townie).
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:12 am

Post by ZazieR »

DTMaster wrote:@Kill-kill

Also is that all you have to reply to in my 317 post? I'm pretty sure I said more then that one question.
This. Why didn't you answer the other questions in the same post?
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:21 am

Post by ZazieR »

Cain wrote:wow, three votes, some people really hate me. I have no role to claim to keep me safe, all i can do is tell you im town. The reason i sit back and watch is because this is only my third gama and im just watching, still having very little input, and yeah i know it looks scummy,
but if i posted just lots of random posts then chances are i would be suspected of told im stupid
. I cant decribe how hew i am to this game, and trying to pick scum tell things up to try and help.
First of all, the fast claim. I'd have liked to hear why he did that.
Newbie defence is noted.
But the worst thing of all is the bolded. Afraid of suspicion. The bolded especially is bad when you take into account that he claimed scum once in a game.
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:25 am

Post by ZazieR »

Kill-kill wrote:
DTMaster wrote: 1. Yes because ignoring those questions and "playing anti-town" is another argument against Cain if he doesn't answer them. I don't see how questioning would not be beneficial in your case against Cain, not questioning him is much worse in my opinion.
No, the response would be "Well, he hasn't posted at all, it's not suspicious that he didn't answer." Speaking of which, now he has posted, and did not answer any of your questions.
Planning to change your vote in the near future?
This time,
DT
, it's scummy.
But it seems you didn't point it out this time. How come?
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:27 am

Post by ZazieR »

Toro wrote:
Cain wrote:prod recieved! sorry, had my computer in the shop over the past three days getting fixed! all good now!

wow, three votes, some people really hate me. I have no role to claim to keep me safe, all i can do is tell you im town. The reason i sit back and watch is because this is only my third gama and im just watching, still having very little input, and yeah i know it looks scummy, but if i posted just lots of random posts then chances are i would be suspected of told im stupid. I cant decribe how hew i am to this game, and trying to pick scum tell things up to try and help.

Hope this make things clearer, if not just ask!

:D
With you just posting this and now just bowing out, you
are
stupid.

Sorry to make it all blunt like that. But yeah, and I'll get on this to add some more pressure...

Unvote


Vote: Cain
Have to look more into this,
Zaz
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:36 am

Post by ZazieR »

Cain wrote:
Unvote


Completely forgot i had a vote active.

@DT - What questions is it you need answered?

To all with a vote on me, get me lynched and you will see that i am infact a townie, thats all i can really do in my defense, i know it isn't exactly convincing, but this is giving mafia the perfect opertunity to join in and get the deciding vote on my head.

That is all for now.
Knowing he had a vote active, but not knowing what questions DT had asked towards him. Once again, that needed an explanation as the previous VC was on the same page as the questions.
Sign of non-interest and AtE are both noted.
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:50 am

Post by ZazieR »

Some quick comments when I was looking when Saber would respond to my posts (Haven't seen them yet when I looked till page 16) and skimmed over some posts.
I could do them in seperate posts though, but I know that many won't like that :D

Not liking it that Cain didn't answer DT's questions.
Will respond later to DT's post towards me.
And welcome to the replacements (Saw that Shotty replaced into this game as well) ^.^
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:10 am

Post by ZazieR »

Toro wrote:After reading this I wondered why his stance on Cain has drastically changed to wanting to lynch him after discarding my reasons that I stated originally as reasons that weren't enough to warrant a Cain-lynch.

I dunno, I could be reading too much into this, or I could be onto something. Zaz, your thoughts?
As said, not liking the vote. I first only saw that he changed from "inexperienced" to "inexperienced scum" for the same reasons.
Now, there have also been other things added. Like how he called Cain out for not questioning Mastin, but how he himself didn't question Cain.

But why did you only ask me?
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:19 am

Post by ZazieR »

Kill-kill wrote:
ZazieR wrote: Secondly, I was the one who asked Cain about his vote. I replaced into this game, and looking at the time stamps, you could have asked him before me. You choose not to do so. Why?
I already answered this, but, with his activity, I didn't see the point. I also already explained why I only answered one question: namely, I misread and didn't think the other two were addressed to me, and I answered them in my next post.

Toro, his behavior since then has changed my mind. He is my number one scum candidate, so my vote is on him.
Yep, hypocrite.
Also, your talking about a change of behaviour when you're responding to Toro. When was this change of behaviour?
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:41 am

Post by ZazieR »

peacesells wrote:Hello everyone, just got word that I've replaced Cain. Seeing how he has 5 votes on him already I believe I've got my work cut out for me.

I read the thread (before I got my role) once yesterday hoping for a headstart if I got added to the game. With one read through my general feeling is Saber is scummiest acting
(well actually, I would have voted Cain had I not been him as he appeared as a newb scum to me.)


unvote vote: Saber


To me Saber started flipping out when pressured then pretty quickly changed to a more calm approach. Seems to me one of his scum buddies advised him to chill out...and maybe fed him some ideas.
Why did you point out the bolded?
As for Post 385, if you think there are anti-town players on your wagon, then why didn't you look at those players before?
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:53 am

Post by ZazieR »

peacesells wrote:
Scott Brosius wrote: and his analysis ONLY of the people who voted Cain still sound anti-town to me.
I explained the reasoning for that and if you choose to outrightly act like I did not explain that reasoning then I can only assume you are trying to manipulate others thoughts in this regard.

Instead of saying "he only focused on those voting Cain" why don't you tear apart my reasoning instead. Then no one is misled by you into thinking I did a huge OMGUS tunnel on 5 players.

When I get the opportunity (meaning several hours of free time) I'll post my thoughts on other players.
Still bad excuse. Instead of looking at the scummiest player of the game, you looked at the scummiest player of a specific group.
Also, you read the game before you replaced into it. Shouldn't you have had opinions of the other players already?
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:21 am

Post by ZazieR »

Don't like Post 407.
Pretty much, because you could find most reasons for his thoughts in earlier posts.
And then there's also the wrong statement regarding Toro. But I need to look if it was itentional or not.
Also, the advice in it, quoted if needed later:
State your reasons so you at least appear to be scum hunting.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:31 am

Post by ZazieR »

peacesells wrote:
Scott Brosius wrote: How is my question filler? Obviously I think you are anti-town since my vote is still on you. SW hasn't posted in a awhile so I inquired about his vote. What do you want me to answer?

DT didn't overreact to the stupid Mastin beginning of this game and has been informative and questioning many people. So a town lean.

Hohum seemed to be antagonizing DT and keeping that Mastin argument going too long. But he has disappeared.

I was told this is Toro's style of play. Of course style of play is a factor. Do you play the same style of play when you are town and scum?

Toro: Obviously I am aware that Cain/peace are 2 different players. That doesn't mean we forget about the replaced player though.
Better stuff imo than just saying someone is scum/town/nuetral.
*Counts the amount of questions*
*Counts the amount of answers*
Something isn't right there. They don't match. Why?

(Practicing for RL ^.^)
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:10 am

Post by DTMaster »

@Zazie
ZazieR wrote:
Kill-kill wrote: No, the response would be "Well, he hasn't posted at all, it's not suspicious that he didn't answer." Speaking of which, now he has posted, and did not answer any of your questions.
Planning to change your vote in the near future?
This time,
DT
, it's scummy.
But it seems you didn't point it out this time. How come?
Oh I was at work and forgot to follow up on my Cain case. I did say I had 15 minutes to work with the game. Read my post at that time:
DTM wrote: Actually I was at work when I posted (15 minute break FTL) so thanks for pointing this out. That was a scum-hunting slip on my part.
So I assumed that Kill-kill was pointing out that I haven't followed through on my Cain case. Your bolded part is a strike against me and Kill-kill.

Against Kill-kill, he trying to lead the vote and also seems to be nervous about my vote on him since he specifically talked about the vote. If he is townie the votes will move on their own and he shouldn't be nervous about one vote.

The closest vote count was found in post 322
fuzzylightning wrote:
Vote Count #5


hasdgfas
: 1
(Cain)

Kill-kill
: 1
(DTMaster)

Cain
: 3
(Kill-kill, Scott Brosius, lumi)

Nikanor
: 2
(hohum, saberwolf)

Saberwolf
: 5
(Toro, hasdgfas, ZazieR, Nikanor)


Not Voting
:
(ThAdmiral, saberwolf)


With 12 Alive it takes 7 votes for a lynch.

Prodding Cain
Note how I'm the only one voting for him so there isn't a need for me to unvote him.

It's also a strike against me since I followed him so you can kinda establish a weak Kill-DTM link there since that is scummy in itself.

In my hastiness I missed this. Good job for pointing this out.

FoS: Kill-Kill


Also what are your thoughts on the whole hohum posting thing? A google search supports Has' case on Hohum actually lurking. See my meta notes in my previous post for more details.

I have a bad gut feeling right now on the wagon against hohum and would like to hear more from him.
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:20 am

Post by ZazieR »

Nik wrote:Contrary to what I've said above, I get the feeling peacesells is town. First, he mistakes scum for being able to talk during the day, which I think is a minor townslip. On this subject, where else have you played mafia, peacesells?
Also, instead of immediately pushing your wagon, saber, he goes and votes someone completely different. His votehop in his first two posts is borderline scummy (change this to 'extremely scummy' if saber flips scum), but refusing to push an opposing bandwagon is a towntell, imo (unless that opposing bandwagon flips scum, in which case it's a scumtell).
Disagreed with both reasons.
First, Peace has claimed that he has read this game before he replaced into this game.
Second, he did try to push a Saber-wagon. But as it was pointed out that his attack didn't make sense, he had to 'retreat'.
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:29 am

Post by ZazieR »

Peace wrote:
Nik wrote:Can you list your top three scumspects please?
I'll give you top two...how about that? Scott and Lumi. I'm sorry but I thought I made it clear Lumi was scummy imo on the original breakdown. Lumi being 2nd on the list = less scummy than Scott.

Please breakdown how most of the post was fence sitting? I'm pretty sure I came hard at Scott and Lumi for their actions.
Weren't Lumi and Scott the top 2 scummiest players of those voting you? Does this mean you have looked at the remaining players then?
Gut activated on the last part of the quote.
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:46 am

Post by ZazieR »

hohum wrote:\o/
I saw later that you explained why you've been inactive. Why not in the above post?
And you may have been busy for a week, but what about the days before that?
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:52 am

Post by ZazieR »

Peace wrote:Again these are opinions. We'd do a better job of scum hunting if you reacted more to my points made in that whole post on whether you agree or not than picking on my particular semantics.
Gut activated.
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:13 am

Post by Shotty to the Body »

Summarization

Toro:
I dislike the way Toro hopped on Cain right in the beginning. He continues to push this idea in his (relatively) rare posts. Going for an easy lynch? I really disliked his post 179, he asks for town approval, claims Cain is going for the easy lynch while Toro himself is pushing a noob-lynch. Switches his vote to Saber over little to me, both Zazie had some reasons for voting Saber, Toro had nothing except a 'bad feeling.' I don't like how Toro tries to make something out of the people not on Zazie's huge list, he's trying to make something out of nothing here. Not sure what to make of the buddying between him and Saber. As soon as DTM votes Cain he's quite willing to jump back on the easy wagon, dislike. Later he has to be called out to post his own thoughts before someone elses, I really don't like that.

Nik:
Out of the original spat, I thought he came out scummiest, but only slightly. Since then he has been active(?) but I realized when I was writing this that I've gone an incredibly long period of time without making a note here. He sure held out a long time before making another post and I don't really felt like he made a good catch-up post considering he said he was re-reading like 4 pages. Nik scored some town-points with me concerning peace on page 18, even though Toro also raised a valid point against him.

DTM:
Didn't like his defense of Mastin, if has or him flips scum IGMEO the other one. They did a pretty good job distancing over that issue if that was their plan. 122 AtE, dislike. I also dislike how he clears sabre in 130. Moving on to a bit later in the game, I like that he calls out kill-kill along with Scott. I thought it was worth noting that only after Scott mentioned that Hohum had been MIA for a while that DTM made a similar remark. Joins the attack on Scott, I think he makes some valid points here, I wonder if we caught some scum hammering at each other with saber and peace.

Icanhascow?:
It was nice to see some activity out of that slot, I would've liked to see some defense other then 'just unvote me' but I don't see any defense against Mastin policy votes if you aren't Mastin.... He definitely keeps the pressure up on saber which I like and I agree with his wishy-washy statement about DTM, but I disagree with the reasons for voting Saber. I'm curious why he stayed completely away from the cain/peace discussion and only reappears when someone mentions saber again. He appears again to vote Hohum, but I honestly smelt lurking since he posted almost nothing for the last three pages. Has is correct about ongoing games.

Cain/peace: Cain was worse then useless, nuff said. I think his first vote was helpful at least and the rest was noobishness tbh. As soon as peace replaces in he immediately switches to the other bw, maybe it's self-preservation but I really don't like it. He immediately switches to Scott, better read after he drops the bw vote for some original scum-hunting. I was a bit confused why he didn't do a run-down of everyone, especially since he said he was reading the game in advance. He goes on the attack against Scott, but I felt like his attacks were a weak attempt at best.

Scott: Pops in every now and again with debatably useful posts. I lean more towards his posts being more useful then not, I see the points that he isn't scum-hunting super actively but he is a bar above many others. I like how he keeps the pressure on lumi to keep her posting and that he still kept on track with others that were lurking as well. Once cain is replaced my opinion goes downhill, I don't like why he went after peace and his sudden switch to saber was odd.

Zazie: His first scum list was really useless, with over half the players listed with no particular comments to explain why this was pretty useless. I understand his reasons for voting Saber, but I don't agree with all of them. I think that he was genuinely trying to prevent tunneling rather then stifling discussion. Zazie's walls promote scum-hunting, they're just a pain in the ass to read, so I don't understand saber's policy complaints here.

Kill-kill: Said he thought Cain was inexperienced, didn't really understand how this meshed with his later posts. Woah, another Kill-kill post like 6 pages later, seriously this is a lurker popping in to push the easy lynch on a newb, dislike. The argument he makes toward cain is pretty weak, he's like well I'm voting him because I think he's noob scum what makes you think he isn't? That isn't the way it works, if you're voting you need to justify it, we aren't supposed to justify not voting him to you. He likes Cow arbitrating an argument, so shouldn't he like saber for the same thing? He says Saber is the easy target, but no one is an easier target then the noob that isn't posting.

Saber: I liked how he kept the first page(s) from becoming a bloodbath and I felt that he handled himself well against Zazie's accusations. His OMGUS vote of Zazie however wasn't the greatest, even if he did point out a few things I agree with. Saber also tries to make something out of Zazie's list, Zazie could be misdirecting us to nik or w/e, it just isn't conclusive. Didn't understand how he got an FoS on nik out of his post about lurkers. AtE in 273, bleh. Don't like the fact he even mentioned considering ruining the game because he was mad that he was getting lynched, that's just shitty. Don't understand why he thinks Nik is so scummy in his analysis. Not sure how I feel about the peace vote, still don't get his nik suspicions, he raises some valid points about the catch up post but nothing that is incredibly anti-town. Saber is the second to jump on Hohum, picks up a few scum points here.


Scummy: Hohum, Saber, Kill-Kill, Peace, Toro
Neutral: Hascow, DTM, Nik
Town: Zazie, Scott
No read: ThAdmiral
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:00 pm

Post by fuzzylightning »

Vote Count #9


peacesells
: 1
(Kill-kill)

hasdgfas
: 1
(hohum)

Saberwolf
: 3
(ZazieR, Nikanor, Scott Brosius)

hohum
: 3
(DTMaster, saberwolf, Toro)


Not Voting
:
(ThAdmiral, Shotty to the Body, hasdgfas, peacesells)


With 12 Alive it takes 7 votes for a lynch.

Deadline is now Sunday September 13, 2009 4 PM EDT
2-1 as Town (including the 39 minute final day)
0-1 as Mafia
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hasdgfas
hasdgfas
he/him
Jack of All Trades
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hasdgfas
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:01 pm

Post by hasdgfas »

@zazier:
while I appreciate that you're posting, I
really
dislike the spam. I don't care if it's SOP for you, it's distracting and borderline scummy. Please try to rein it in. Thanks.
jdodge1019: hasjghsalghsakljghs is from vermont. vermont is made of liberal freaks and cows. he's not a liberal. thus he is a cow
----
very much a liberal now
Hascow/Cow are acceptable shortened names, never "Has"
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:06 pm

Post by DTMaster »

@Has

Can you elaborate on how Zazie's style is scummy? Yes I dislike the spam style, but I see it as a difference in mafia game play (ie Zazie's spam vs Mastin's wall) and not evidence of scum play.

It's part of his meta to do this (which I'm waiting for the link to the reasoning behind it Zazie).

It's the same thing as saying Mastin's walls are scummy, or Battle Mage's similar posting style is scummy. He does do it similarly to Zazie, but in a more condensed form.

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