Mini 855: Colorless Rainbow Town (Halted for list mod error)

[ZEEnon]

Seems like I have a lot of choices. Hmm.....
Well I would

Vote: Hero764

for being the last to confirm.....
Or I could

Unvote. Vote: Sweep

for confirming at the same time as me.....
Perhaps I will even

Unvote. Vote: d3x

for that awesome play on Fuzzywuzzy.....

But wait! I am definitely voting MonkeyMan576 after he mispelled my name.
It's ZEEnon, get the capitalation correct or else you are referring to someone else.

Vote: MonkeyMan576.

[ZEEnon]

Manzcar, your post #11 is mildly scummy because you are subtly trying to pin suspicion on MonkeyMan576 for a pro-town move. Why wouldn't we want to know what kind of powers the mafia have? I mean, a

normal

town-aligned player would have read through the rule set provided. They are very unclear. I asked the moderator via PM whether there is two mafia, since the mafia PM makes it seem like there is only two, but he said that he was not going to give me a direct answer. So the rule set could potentially mislead us that there is two mafia, but since he did not give an exact answer, there very well could be more. Anyways, off topic. MonkeyMan576 was talking about a scum role, and you asked him why he was rolefishing. I don't understand why you would consider him asking about a scum role a form of negative role fishing.

[ZEEnon]

MonkeyMan576's post #15 seems town-like. Although I don't agree that it is enough to tell Manzcar's alignment, MonkeyMan576's quick vote makes me lean town on him for multiple reasons, one being that mafia are less likely to be the first person to exit the RVS, another being that he doesn't seem to be held down by the chains that cautious mafia members usually seem to have on them.

[ZEEnon]

Reading through some more of their back-and-forth posts, I currently see the MonkeyMan576 and Manzcar argument as town vs. town, with MonkeyMan576 leaning the more likely town. My mind may change after reading it a couple more times.

[ZEEnon]

I think his intentions were clearly to incriminate me.

This was my thought too while I read that post of his.

[ZEEnon]

You do know that we're not in the RVS anymore, right?

Oh, I fully realize that.

[ZEEnon]

Scien's questioning can both be seen a pro-town and scummy, in my opinion. I have a null tell on him/her.

[ZEEnon]

My point is I don't think a pro-town player would have asked the question, or implied my position was anti-town.

So you are very confident that Manzcar is scum, correct?

[ZEEnon]

I wasn't trying to attack nor incriminate only find out whether the intent was town leaning or scum leaning in rolefishing.

So you think that mafia would ask about their own roles for the purpose of rolefishing?

[ZEEnon]

I thought you said you didn't think that a town-aligned player would have asked that. Am I wrong?

[ZEEnon]

By the way for everyone's knowledge, I would be voting Manzcar because he is my biggest suspect right now, however I want discussion to carry on freely rather than a mass of suspicion of Manzcar. I think it's too early to confirm that he is scum, and that we should wait for the rest of the players to post. Furthermore,

Unvote.

[ZEEnon]

Mod Note:

ZEEnon, I know the rules said you couldn't post in Blue. I'm modifying them to read "Blue or Dark Blue." I hadn't realized I would have to make that distinction. No harm, no foul.

Very well.

[ZEEnon]

Moderator:

I think there is a mistake in the vote count because some of my votes show up on people twice.

[ZEEnon]

Yeah, I realize that but there is also multiple votes of mine that aren't striked out.

[ZEEnon]

Oh, okay. I understand now. A bit confusing, but it's done correctly.
I apologize for not posting game-related content at the moment, I am currently focused on another mafia site.

[ZEEnon]

No, what I am doing is disallowing a potential quicklynch while allowing discussion.
The fact that you don't ask me any questions or discuss first is very suspicious.

[ZEEnon]

To rolefish and bring out possible town roles I think scum would do anything. To assume that they wouldn't is naive.

Do you think that MonkeyMan576 could have potentially outted a role(s) with his speculation about the mafia team make-up?

[ZEEnon]

It is WIFOM to say that scum wouldn't rolefish their own roles. it isn't like scum is going to drop breadcrumbs on their roles. If something doesn't make sense to me or seems off to me I will ask questions.

I never said that scum wouldn't rolefish their own roles. What I did say is that scum would really have nothing to gain from asking about their own roles. How do you think that MonkeyMan576 could have benefited, as mafia, from speculating about whether or not the mafia have power roles, when he clearly would have known whether or not that was so? Don't say that it could have potentially outted a role, as I don't see how that is possible unless the mafia claimed, which would have been a positive aspect anyways. The only way I see how MonkeyMan576, as mafia, could have used the speculation to his advantage is if he used it to try to gain town-cred acting naive about the mafia make-up. We don't know whether or not he tried to do that, therefore you should just view that post of his as a null-tell, at the worst.

[ZEEnon]

What I find funny is that Monkey keeps saying that I am attacking him and trying to incriminate him but all I did was ask a question. That is when he voted me. I am still not sure whether or not he is scum but I also feel that others need to get involved and more discussion needs to happen.

The problem with the question you asked is that instead of specifying your question to say 'mafia roles', you generalized and made it just 'roles', which also infers that he is rolefishing. So you put his post in a negative light, perhaps on purpose, perhaps unknowingly.

[ZEEnon]

I would like Zee or Monkey to explain why it is scummy rather than say a town player wouldn't question someone rolefishing scum roles because that is WIFOM. Because as far as I can tell that is all that there is to this argument.

This question didn't really make sense to me. Could you please re-word it?

[ZEEnon]

Ok then..Upon first read I dont like Manz's jumpin on MM for noticing the difference in Mods rules or sample PMs or whatever.

I also dont like MM's quick vote on Manz. He does seem a little jumpy to me

Way to play both sides..

[ZEEnon]

ZEEnon is it really necessary to use that orange, it's very hard to read, especially on even-numbered posts.

Sorry but there are barely enough colors to use as it is. Just do what I do; highlight the post.

[ZEEnon]

Incidentally I do tend to agree that rolefishing scum roles isn't scummy. I can see the danger inherent in doing so, though.

What danger do you see can come from it?

[ZEEnon]

Eh? Really? You thought Manz's question was intending to incriminate? I would like to examine this... why do you think that. How is the way he worded it different than any other question that someone who is suspicious of someone else would ask?

Happy birthday. I explained this in post 142.

Hmm this is interesting as well. Not 7 posts of yours before this, and roughly 20 mins you had said you thought the argument as town vs town. You changed your mind? What made you do so?

I fully realized this while I wrote that. Although I feel the

argument

could potentially be town vs. town, Manzcar is in actuality my top suspect. I'm not sure if that makes sense to you.

Eh with two votes on him, I don't think that potential is very high. You think that it is higher than the benefit of additional pressure would get you?

As you can tell from my fairly late reply, I cannot be on as frequently as I would like to. Therefore, I don't know what could happen from the time I sign out to the next time I sign in. For all I know, it's been a hectic weekend, and I was unable to sign on. Therefore, a lynch could be realized even before I could see it progress. I think that even without voting him, voicing my suspicions of him gives the same results as me actually voting him. Hell, I said I would be voting him. Therefore, I think it gives the same result.

[ZEEnon]

I said knowing what scum roles were out there is good for town and protown several times.

Woah, really? That's not what you implied in your question to MonkeyMan576. Please explain.

[ZEEnon]

Raivann, in post 123 you say this:

Another scummy post from d3x.

I don't recall you mentioning an inital scummy post from d3x. Could you point out the first one?

[ZEEnon]

Ok then..Upon first read I dont like Manz's

jumpin

on MM for noticing the difference in Mods rules or sample PMs or whatever.

I also dont like MM's quick vote on Manz. He does seem a little

jumpy

to me

This is really scummy. You basically have said the same thing for each of these two players. The first part basically says you don't like how Manzcar jumped on MonkeyMan576, and the second part says how you don't like how MonkeyMan576 jumped on Manzcar. You using the same evidence for each of them, as well as playing both sides of the argument is how you have earned my vote for today's lynch.

Vote: Raivann.

[ZEEnon]

My point is I don't think a pro-town player would have asked the question, or implied my position was anti-town.

So you are very confident that Manzcar is scum, correct?

So you are very confident that Manzcar is scum, correct?

Where did I imply this?

[ZEEnon]

Scien's questioning can both be seen a pro-town and scummy, in my opinion. I have a null tell on him/her.

Why did you post this?

Before I answer, let me ask you a question. In what situation would posting this be bad?

[ZEEnon]

I completely agree with the others that have pointed this out, this came out of nowhere:

...and I'm leaning town on Fuzzyman.

[ZEEnon]

I will provide a brief summary of how I feel about each player in the game as well as my rankings from town to mafia tomorrow.

[ZEEnon]

I've seen faster lynches.

[ZEEnon]

I think you misunderstood what Fuzzyman wrote because I don't really understand what you are saying, MonkeyMan576.

[ZEEnon]

It seems my overview is taking longer than expected. I'll attempt to have it ready for tomorrow.

[ZEEnon]

Hello everyone. My computer is not working and I am currently at a public library posting. Glad to see that Raivann was scum as I suspected. My synopsis of the game is saved on my computer unfortunately so I cannot post it. I have no further comments as of right now but hopefully my computer will be fixed by the the middle of this week.

In my opinion, cruelty is likely town due to him being the first person to point out Raivann's scummy opinion. Also, surprising that two people hop on me when I was clearly the top suspect of Raivann and also suspecting him hard. I'll review what I missed and add it to my synopsis later. Whoever posted the part about Scien and Raivann being a likely scum team, I think it was MonkeyMan576, I totally agree with right now.

That's all I have for now, please look forward towards my synopsis.

P.S.
1. I'm not lurking. All that said that, which I believe was MonkeyMan576 and Scien, which coincidentally are the two people who randomly voted me for being away, are completely incorrect and are clearly trying to mislead others. Lurking is when you are able to have access to the site and don't post. The two that referring to my inactivity as lurking need to be looked into, which I will do, since they may have worded it that way in order to try to get a wagon off Raivann and on to me.
2. It's

ZEE

non. ZEE is fine too. Thanks.

[ZEEnon]

I read a little more, and I feel confident to

Vote: Scien

.
I will explain when I get my computer repaired, as my time at the library is limited.

[ZEEnon]

Everyone, I am at another place with COMPUTER ACCESS! I will post tonight for sure.

[ZEEnon]

Sorry I got completely distracted when I got home and I ended up watching T.V. I promise I will post tomorrow.
I don't understand why the deadline didn't change due to the modkill, but whatever.

[ZEEnon]

Alright, so to begin we will go through a post-by-post analysis of Raivann's posts and interactions for his stay during the game. This is in order to both find pro-town connections as well as possible scum partners.

Caution:

Most of the Raivann post-by-post analysis is speculation. Readers discretion is advised.

Raivann's Isolation Post

(which can be accessed at the bottom of the page)

#0:

In his first post, Raivann provides us with tons of speculation material. First of all, his need to vote Sweep, in my opinion, makes Sweep (now Chinaman) look bad since Raivann may have wanted to attempt to distance himself from Sweep/Chinaman early on. However, since this is WIFOM, it should be disregarded by you all. I'm just stating this because although it may mean nothing, it could potentially mean something later on. Second off, Raivann clearly shows that he couldn't pick between MonkeyMan576 and Manzcar, now known as Skruffs. This could either be due to the fact that both of them are town and that he wanted to keep his options open, which is what I suspect, OR one of them may have been his partner. While this second situation is more unlikely in my opinion, it is possible. If it was the second situation, I still hold the belief that Manzcar/Skruffs is the more scummier of the two and would be my number one mafia choice if it came down to one of the two.

Raivann's Isolation Post #1-2:

In Raivann's second and third posts, his interactions with d3x make me believe that d3x is town. d3x points out early on that Raivann clearly didn't read the situation in posts #81 and #105, and is actually the FIRST person to start suspecting Raivann now that I checked. Raivann's third post was trying way to hard to cast suspicion upon d3x. He started off by saying "Another scummy post from d3x.", however if they were partners and d3x didn't post a previous scummy post, which he didn't, I think that Raivann would not have posted that. The fact that Raivann claims that d3x creates cases out of thin air also adds to my viewpoint that d3x is town.

Raivann's Isolation Post #3:

This post, Raivann decides to point suspicion upon two new candidates, MonkeyMan576 and myself. I will skip over analyzing the posts directed as me since it will just be a bunch of WIFOM to all of you. Raivann's post to MonkeyMan576 is very telling, however. His comment "Why can't you concentrate on other players with your vote still on Manz? Or did you have a change of heart?" is really stretched because in my opinion it had a clear, huge motive behind it. I think it was an attempt to get the heat off himself in any way possible.

Skipping a little because they just make d3x and MonkeyMan576 look even more town.
His post to Dizzle doesn't sway me one way or the other.

Raivann's Isolation Post #12:

This post makes me think Chinaman is less scummy, which may surprise you. Since Raivann was under major suspicion now at that point, I would expect more buddying up to town-aligned players, saying that he thinks they are town, while he very likely started to bus his buddies to potentially get them a better standing within the town community. In this post, Raivann calls Chinaman's post townie, which is likely due to the fact that Chinaman IS in fact town and that he wanted to buddy up to him. Just my opinion on the post, no need to feel the same way as me.

Raivann's Isolation Post #3 & #13:

In these posts Raivann calls Fuzzyman town. I am unsure whether this is to buddy up to Fuzzman-town or because Raivann wanted to protect Fuzzyman-scum. Since I can't get a read off this, this post is neutral.

Raivann's Isolation Post #15:

probscum=Zeenon,MM

I support either a Scien or Zeenon lynch.
Vote:Scien

Within a span of, wait for it, ONE post, he completely turns around from naming me as his top suspect, to voting Scien. Just like I stated in my analysis of Raivann's Isolation Post #12, I think this is the time that Raivann would DEFINITELY start to bus as mafia, since he had at least half of the players suspecting him majorly. The fact that he just names Scien as a suspect and votes him just from one post Scien made is extremely suspicious to me, making Scien pop onto my radar immediately after seeing Raivann flip scum.

Raivann's Isolation Post #17:

This post of Raivann's just makes me laugh. Like seriously! What goes on in this guy's head?

"I'm going to ask my number one suspect if he wants to switch with me to my number two suspect!"

To be honest, "Would you support a Zeenon lynch, Scien?" makes me feel even stronger conviction that Scien is mafia. Sure, you might argue that scum wouldn't be that obvious about their partners. But then again you would also argue that scum wouldn't be obvious about themselves, but clearly Raivann contradicts that statement since he obvious to the extreme.

That's it for the Raivann post-by-post analysis, stay tuned for more!

[ZEEnon]

*Commercial Break!*

Just some current events that I need to express my view on:

First of all, I have no idea why people are acting like my overview of the game is so important. First of all, I freely volunteered to do it myself, but you are all acting as if it was asked of from me and that I

have

to do it. Second, discussion should be able to continue, but I seen some of you say "i'm waiting for ZEEnon to post his synopsis." Like HELLO! One, that doesn't give you any excuse to stop discussing. Two, it is

not

mandatory. I chose to write what I said I would write of my

own free will

. When you act like I have an obligation to make a summary of each player, I completely feel like doing the opposite, which is not doing anything at all.

[ZEEnon]

TOWN-ALIGNED

MonkeyMan576

- Confident Town

d3x

- Confident Town

cruelty

- Confident Town

Sweep/Chinaman

- Leaning Town

jasonT1981

- Neutral

Hero764

- Neutral

Manzcar/Skruffs

- Neutral

Fuzzyman

- Leaning Mafia

Dizzle

- Leaning Mafia

Scien

- Confident Mafia

MAFIA-ALIGNED

I will let you all know why I feel the way I do for each individual tomorrow, these posts take a LONG time.
I think I forgot to mention, my computer is down for good unfortunately which is why I am re-writing these summaries.

[ZEEnon]

I thought I said this during the commercial break, but I completely don't agree with the current MonkeyMan576 lynch.

[ZEEnon]

According to some players I have been purposely ignoring questions, which I clearly have not.
I stated that I lacked internet access before, so I was not disregarding the questions that have been directed towards me.
I have went through what I missed in order to see what questions are being asked to me, hopefully I caught them all.

The problem with the question you asked is that instead of specifying your question to say 'mafia roles', you generalized and made it just 'roles', which also infers that he is rolefishing. So you put his post in a negative light, perhaps on purpose, perhaps unknowingly.

Yes, that is part of the issue of this whole mess I agree. He did generalize, and it will be hard to tell if this was intentional or unintentional at this point I agree. However I believe this post makes it sound like you were certain one way or the other, and I would like to ask you if that is the case:

I think his intentions were clearly to incriminate me.

This was my thought too while I read that post of his.

Yes, I do feel that the question was posed to cast suspicion on MonkeyMan576.

I fully realized this while I wrote that. Although I feel the argument could potentially be town vs. town, Manzcar is in actuality my top suspect. I'm not sure if that makes sense to you.

What you are saying now makes sense. However again, when you said it originally it sounded different than what you are saying now:

Reading through some more of their back-and-forth posts, I currently see the MonkeyMan576 and Manzcar argument as town vs. town, with MonkeyMan576 leaning the more likely town.

Not trying to give you too much of an out, but this might be because I am putting too much meaning into town-vs-town. What do you mean by that term. I am having an issue about how you can think an argument is town-vs-town, and have one of those 'town' be your cheif suspect.

I think in both of my quoted posts, I state that I think the

argument

itself is town-vs-town, not necessarily the players.
_________________________________________

Everything Skruffs said about me in post #233 makes no sense to me. All I see is that Skruffs thinks that I am possibly Scien's partner because he voted Raivann after I asked a question to Raivann. I'm also seeing that Skruffs thinks that I stalled the completely pointless question that Raivann asked me. The fact that Skruffs feels the question Raivann posed to me was actually "pretty good" makes me a bit more wary.

I singled your vote because your vote came immediately after Zeenon 'passed' on answering the question Raivann asked about why Zeenon thought you were 'null' if your behavior was striking him as both town AND scum. The implications seem pretty obvious to me.

Here Skruffs completely misinterprets Raivann's post, or is Raivann's partner trying to make it seem like his post had deeper meaning by saying that Raivann was asking me why I felt Scien's question could be seen as both town-like as well as scummy, when in actuality Raivann was only asking me why I bothered to post how I felt about Scien. How Skruffs drew that conclusion so confidently about what Raivann's post can mean one of two things normally. Either 1. He misread the post or 2. They are scum together. However, I don't feel that Scien and Skruffs would be aligned with each other as mafia currently and since I feel Scien is scum, I will not focus on this point. I would like it to be addressed by Skruffs however, and I would definitely like Skruffs to explain how he misinterpretted Raivann's post.

So ZEEnon saying that you were both pro town AND scummy SHOULD HAVE made him say, "And that's suspicious", instead of disregarding it in the same sentence.

Misinterpreted again, Skruffs. I said that Scien's question can be seen as both pro-town as well as scummy,
but never did I say both at the same time, nor which one I felt it was.

Number two, do I detect a whiff that you are happy about this?

This makes Scien look better since after his partner was modkilled I would have expected Scien-scum to have acted happy as well; definitely not question someone else about being happy.

How were we to know if your computer was broke or not. Even when you come in and tell us that's why you have been gone, how can we know that you are truthful. For all I knew you were keeping tabs and not contributing. In that case I needed to pressure in order to get you to talk.

The fact that you and a few others make the mistake of labelling it as lurking rather than inactivity makes me very suspicious.

On another note, I have decided against using yellow, and I am now using a darker pink.
My town-to-mafia list needs to be updated after today's review of mine.

[ZEEnon]

Update:

TOWN-ALIGNED

MonkeyMan576

- Confident Town

d3x

- Confident Town

cruelty

- Confident Town

Sweep/Chinaman

- Leaning Town

jasonT1981

- Neutral

Hero764

- Neutral

Fuzzyman

- Leaning Mafia

Dizzle

- Leaning Mafia

Manzcar/Skruffs

- Leaning Mafia

Scien

- Confident Mafia

MAFIA-ALIGNED

[ZEEnon]

Amished, what game have I played with you, and what game have I played with you as scum?
You

may

have played with me before but i'm pretty sure that unless you were on an alt, I did not play with you as scum on this site.

[ZEEnon]

Amished, please allow me to post my case on Scien before you tell Fuzzyman the reason(s) why feel Scien is scum.
As for you, Fuzzyman, you need to be patient. These things don't write themselves.

[ZEEnon]

Why in the bloody world would you want for Amished to not give his case on him!?

You completely changed what I said. Did you do that on purpose?

[ZEEnon]

_{Exclusive Interview with ZEEnon - "Why Scien is Scum!"}

As a player in Mini Game 855, you may be wondering: "Why does ZEEnon think Scien is scum?" Today is your lucky day!
ZEEnon has decided that he will explain to you exactly why he is so positive that Scien is scum!

Interviewer:

Hi ZEEnon, thanks for being here today. There are a few questions that our viewers have been wondering about. Would it be alright with you if I directed some of their questions towards you?

ZEEnon:

Sure, ask away.

Interviewer:

You have said previously that you are confident that Scien is scum. What made you start looking at Scien?

ZEEnon:

The main thing that triggered my major suspicion of Scien was his and Raivann's interactions towards each other.

Interviewer:

How were Scien's interactions with Raivann suspicious?

ZEEnon:

Raivann was suspecting MonkeyMan576 and I very hard one day, but then over a span of one day when he reached L-2, he out of the blue switches to Scien. This really gives me the impression that he felt the need to do some last minute bussing in order to attempt to make Scien look better. Not only that, but Scien didn't comment on d3x's post #105 about Raivann even though he commented about the two posts right after it. The ignorance of that post seems very suspicious since he happens to comment on other posts referring to Raivann later on when more suspicion builds up on him.

Interviewer:

Anything else makes you feel Scien is mafia?

ZEEnon:

The fact that Scien voted me for being inactive over other players that hadn't posted in a longer time period is questionable.

Interviewer:

I see. That's all?

ZEEnon:

Yes, that's it. Now that I think about I am not as confident as I was before that Scien is scum, and hopefully after I do my re-read of every player plus a summary I will be able to judge my number one suspect. As for now, my number one suspect is Scien.

Interviewer:

Alright, we are out of time. Thanks for coming on the show, ZEEnon.

ZEEnon:

No problem, thanks for having me.

Alright, so it seems that ZEEnon isn't as sure as he was about Scien being scum. Has ZEEnon been caught over exaggerating his suspicion of Scien? Another interview with ZEEnon has been taken by the Mafiascum News team in order to find out.

Interviewer:

Hey ZEEnon, how are you?

ZEEnon:

I'm fine, thanks. How about yourself?

Interviewer:

Great. Let's cut to the chase. Why did you say that you were so sure about Scien being mafia, but then when asked to post a case on him you don't seem to be so confident?

ZEEnon:

Honestly, seeing Scien and Raivann's interactions made me extremely suspicious and I am very stubbon. When I choose a person that I think is mafia, I will usually stick to them for a while. While making the case on Scien, I had to re-read his posts in isolation multiples times, and I seen that he has some posts that make a lot of sense and are very helpful.

Interviewer:

What made you re-think your Scien suspicion?

ZEEnon:

The fact that I had to make a case on Scien made me read through all his posts multiple times. I realized that there are things that Scien has done that are positive as well, and that I was only focusing on the negative aspects of his play.

Interviewer:

Do you feel the 'positive aspects' of his play outweigh the vibe you get from him being scum?

ZEEnon:

To be honest, i'm not sure right now.

Interviewer:

Since you are not sure about Scien being scum anymore, don't you think you should unvote him?

ZEEnon:

No. He is still my biggest suspect. I've played games before in which I questioned why I suspected someone and even almost unvoted them, and yet they turned out to be scum.

__________________________________________________

Short version for the people that don't care for the create flavor:

- I am re-thinking my suspicion of Scien since I realized that I don't have as much evidence as I thought I did that he is scum, and he has contributed to scumhunting regardless of his interactions with Raivann. I understand that this makes me look suspicious but I tend to second-guess my suspicions frequently, and right now i'm not so confident that Scien is mafia anymore.
- I am still sure that MonkeyMan576 is town and my next large post will explain why I feel that way.

[ZEEnon]

2. His scumlists seem to just be inverses of what people think of him.

Please elaborate.

3. He says that he is NOT SURE whether the positive aspects of Scien's play outweigh the scummy, yet still has a vote on him.

Regardless of how much good things a player has done,
if they have the most evidence on them then they are still going to be my number one suspect.

I look upon his upcoming MM post with great anticipation.

You will have to wait until tomorrow since I do not have enough time today.

[ZEEnon]

Great game everyone. Nice job MonkeyMan576. I like your play, Scien.
Amished, I agreed with so much of what you said but I didn't say anything because I didn't want to come off as buddying.