[Mini 1205] Tough Guy Mafia - Game Over!
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Wickedestjr Jack of All Trades
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Horrifying Hero wrote:This is the part of the game where we shift from randomness to game theory regarding my slot.
I doubt that a discussion about your claim would get us out of RVS. Twice I've seen a player claim miller and both times I think everyone agreed to just forget about the miller claim and judge that player's allignment based on their play. I don't really think a discussion is necessary and I believe that we should just continue the game as normal.
Horrifying Hero wrote:Do you think it was wise for us to claim at this point, or perhaps should we have waited? Do you trust our claim, or not?
If you are actually a miller, then I believe itwasbest for you to claim at this point rather than when the cop claims to have a guilty on you. The miller claim is a null tell for me (although I could easily imagine Mastin suggesting it after seeing the outcome of this game )."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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HezLucky wrote:ARE YOU MAKING FUN OF ME FOR PANTS ON HEAD OPEN 302?
It wasn't meant to be offensive. I meant to say:
HezLucky wrote:2. Imagine you've lost your scum LAZZZZZZZZER. Now how do you catch the scum? (serious question)
HezLucky wrote:Vote: YankCane151
EXCELLENT POST THAT TRIES TO LOOK USEFUL AND NOT OFFEND ANYONE.
Can you elaborate/explain this please? Thanks.
Yonzy, why no random vote?
I have more to say in a few minutes."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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I'm going toUnvote. Vote: ConfidAnonfor this:
ConfidAnon wrote:el simo wrote:Scum, I've been town every game on this account, it's getting fustrating.
By lining us up in a suspect line and getting an old lady to pick.
The first line seems a little off. It smells slightly like an off-handed comment to make us feel like simo is town using slight AtE. It's not a lynch-worthy case at this point, but it's a better than random vote.
Also, you'd seriously trust an old lady? Her eyesight is probably terrible!
UNVOTE: Horrible Hero
VOTE: el simo
Firstly, the point he uses against el simo seems really weak/invalid. I don't see how saying he's been town in all of his other games is meant to imply he's town this game. Secondly, there's no reason for him to add the phrase "It's not a lynch-worthy case at this point, but better than an RV." unless he's scum giving himself room to backpedal. Finally, he adds a jokey reason to his vote despite already having a serious reason. The vote feels off."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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I missed this:
YankCane151 wrote:The same purpose any AtE serves.
FoS: YankCaneSo do you agree with ConfidAnon's point? Because you answered ConfidAnon's question for him about his point against el simo, but you haven't exactly said whether or not you agree with the point. It looks like IIoA. Suspicious."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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[quote="HezLucky']Yes I can. Most people in this game have had a little bit of fun and randomness to your answers, but YankCane seems to think he'll get town cred by answering them completely seriously. There's no attempt to joke around by him, meaning he likely sees it as a risk. Furthermore, his sentence "Regarding the Miller claim" adds nothing substantial to this game, while making it seem like he is doing some early analysis.[/quote]
Can this point be used against avasthearties who also answered my questions seriously?"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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EBWOP:
HezLucky wrote:Yes I can. Most people in this game have had a little bit of fun and randomness to your answers, but YankCane seems to think he'll get town cred by answering them completely seriously. There's no attempt to joke around by him, meaning he likely sees it as a risk. Furthermore, his sentence "Regarding the Miller claim" adds nothing substantial to this game, while making it seem like he is doing some early analysis.
Can this point be used against avasthearties who also answered my questions seriously?"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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YankCane wrote:I don't agree that simo is scummy because of that one post, so yes, I disagree.
In that case:
Wickedestjr wrote:If you didn't agree with it, then your post 37 seems out of place.
...and my suspicion of you has strengthened. You didn't agree with ConfidAnon's suspicion of el simo, but still made a post adding on to or explaining ConfidAnon's point. That makes no sense if you're town."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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el simo wrote:My thought at the moment are centred on Hez. His reasonings seem to imply that he'd think Confid is scum, or scummy, but he dismisses it as it's not 'fair.'
Doesn't seem like town logic..
Firstly, Hez only said that one of my points wasn't a fair scumtell. He didn't call the whole case unfair.
Secondly, while I don't agree/support this point, if you honestly believe in it, why didn't you bring it up earlier? And if you found it voteworthy, why didn't you vote him until now?
@Yonzy - What originally made you think that the RVS was over? The facepalm was because you didn't random vote in the RVS stage and when the game got serious youdidrandom vote. Is there anybody you suspect at this stage of the game? Why?
YankCane151 wrote:Strengthened? Why don't you just vote me already instead of staying on a random vote? Certainly a good way to seem non-comittal regarding me, if you strengthened your leeriness of me from an FoS it should probably just be a vote.
Read the thread again, please. My vote on ConfidAnon is serious. Not random. And even if you had acted more suspicious than him I wouldn't unvote until ConfidAnon had responded to the vote and defended himself.
YankCane151 wrote:I don't have to agree with him to explain it. That's like (incoming sports reference) someone who doesn't know about sports saying "What makes the Yankees the winningest team in baseball?" and a Sox fan going "Well, they have 27 titles". The two aren't related in my eyes nor were they when I said it.
Why did you make post 37? You don't agree that there was AtE in el simo's post. Right? So why explain his motivation for adding AtE to his answer, as scum, when you didn't even believe there was any AtE? It still doesn't make sense to me.
YankCane151 wrote:And Wicked, why did you not call out Dizzy for not random voting?
...because, IIRC, Dizzy hasn't even made a post outside of the confirmation stage.
More later."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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Horrifying Hero wrote:This game.
Way too easy.
Wicked, thanks for giving you one of your buddies. When you die, Yonzy's next.
Care to give us your third?
Kid Know Nothing wrote:unvote, vote yonzy
Care to actually explain your reads? That might be useful. Mastin, if you are so certain that I'm scum, why not try to convince others to vote for me or explain why you are voting me?
ConfidAnon wrote:Trying to plant the idea of simo town in everyone's heads.
If you were a townie in his position, how would you have phrased his question?
ConfidAnon wrote:Like I said earlier though, it's not the strongest case but it's better than a random vote. How on earth is that phrase scummy? That's not giving myself room to backpedal - it's clarifying that some votes have more weight behind them than others. If I advocate a lynch at any point in the game, I'll clearly state that. If I don't, I won't (barring looking for reactions and that sort of thing).
Before I elaborate on and defend my point against you, can you please explain what the purpose of your vote for el simo was, originally?
ConfidAnon wrote:And how is joking scummy? It was just that . . . a joke. Since when are jokes a scumtell?
Nice misrep. I never said that joking was a scumtell. Did you actually think I was saying that? LobsterCatapult explained this point pretty well and I can't think of a better way to elaborate on it, so I'll just quote it for you since you ignored it anyway:
LobsterCatapult wrote:no reason to put a joke after a 'serious' reason to vote someone, except to give yourself a weak "it wasnt that serious" out if someone calls you out on it."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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I'm not a fan of avasthearties play so far.
el simo wrote:Why do you think I was asking him the question? I wanted more clarity before I brought it up. I realize now I misunderstood him.
Correct me if I'm wrong. You asked HezLucky the question, then, before HezLucky had responded, I asked you who you suspect. You voted HezLucky and explained your point before HezLucky answered your question. If I'm correct, why did you wait until after I asked about your suspicions before you voted? I might be a little bit confused.
el simo wrote:If I follow their very detailed thought process which they clearly laid out for us, I'd say they think you are Yonzy's partner, guiding him?
If you're right, then that would explain why they believe Yonzy is my scumbuddy, but it doesn't explain why they think I'm scum. Horrifying Hero called me scum before calling Yonzy scum.
LobsterCatapult wrote:also, we may not be out of rqs, but what is everyone's experience here on MS? like how many completed games has everyone had?
I've been on MS for about two and a half years and I have... 24 completed games.
YankCane151 wrote:The fact that Dizzy hasn't posted is irrelevant. Dizzy did confirm, yet hasn't made a random vote. You didn't answer the question there.
It isn't irrelevant. I questioned Yonzy because he made a post in the RVS that didn't have a random vote. Dizzy never made any posts in the RVS so if I were to question him I would just be asking him why he hasn't been posting. And for all I know, Dizzy would have cast a random vote if he had made a post outside of the RVS.
bobsnox wrote:I feel like an idiot but I must've pulled someone else's ISO up and thought it was his. I don't see anything scummy in his ISO upon review.
Whose ISO did you read instead?
Kid Know Nothing wrote:To see who over reacted to it first. Easy.
So do you suspect Yonzy and why? Also, what do you consider an overreaction and what does a player overreacting to your vote say about that player's allignment?
I like both YankCane151 and ConfidAnon's reaction to my suspicions of them. Also, I'm no longer interested in arguing with them at this point (I'm aware that I seem to be beating a dead horse and if I continued questioning them I don't think it would get us anywhere).
I think that I will, instead,Unvote. Vote: tarsonisocelot. I'll explain later."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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LobsterCatapult wrote:you said you'd supply your reasons for voting him. why are you asking us for our opninions before you post yours?
I want to see who agreed with me and could explain why without parroting my reasoning.
LobsterCatapult wrote:why dont you like avast?
He voted KKN in post 76 just because he didn't give a reason for his Yonzy vote. Not really a strong point and it feels like he was going after an easy target at that point.
I'll explain my suspicion of tarsonisocelot once a few other players have given their thoughts on him."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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Y'know what. I really like the HH bandwagon- even better than my tarsonisocelot vote.Unvote. Vote: Horrifying Hero
My reasons:
-They've stated two suspicions but haven't explained either of them and haven't made any effort to convince others to follow their vote for me.
-They haven't posted a lot recently. This is especially strange considering they were pretty active the day the game started.
-They are a miller. That, itself, isn't suspicious, but a miller's allignment can't be determined via cop investigation. So we determine their allignment based solely on their play during the day. Horrifying Hero, however, is giving us hardly anything to work with. They're playing with their cards too close to their chest. That isn't the way that a miller should be playing this game.
I still suspect tarsonisocelot, but I'm not explaining why until 2-3 more players post in the thread."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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Horrifying Hero wrote:By the way, main reason we haven't been posting stuff, is we're observing things. Looking for the final scum.
Then how are we supposed to determineyourallignment?
Horrifying Hero wrote:The question I have to ask: why?
Why not?
Answer the question, please.
Horrifying Hero wrote:KKN wrote:What did you learn through the fake claim?
The alignment of almost the entire playerlist, naturally.
And how did your fakeclaim tell you all that?
YankCane151 wrote:If we're going off gut reads, I can attest that something seems off about Wicked. I get kind of the vibe that he's trying to hard to look town or something, but I can't put real logic behind it at the moment.
You might be interested in taking a look at my previous games.
Horrifying Hero wrote:The only way to describe it other than that is to quote every post Wicked's done and explain exactly why he's scum. And I do mean it--I can quote every single post he's done and point out all the scumminess within. He has literally zero town posts this game.
I don't believe that you are capable of doing this. Try and prove me wrong.
tarsonisocelot wrote:Will you explain now? Pretty please?
And please don't refer to me as him as you did in your previous post.
Okay sure. Sorry for referring to you as him. Let's take a look at your posts in iso:
Post 0: Confirmation post.
Post 1: Response to my questions in the RVS and a random vote.
Post 2: Question directed to HezLucky asking how scum whining is different from town frustration.
Post 3: She asks me why I suspect her, requested that I call her a she, and says that it would be helpful if HH listed the scumtells from a couple of posts.
...and that's it. My summary of each post didn't leave anything out. Anyone notice what this iso is missing? Suspicions. A vote. Any thoughts regarding the game. tarsonisocelot hasn't given us anything to work with and aside from 2-3 questions (there was no follow-up to the only answered question), hasn't done any scumhunting. She's scum."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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Still catching up. I plan to post all of my thoughts at the end, but I'll respond to two posts now...
YankCane151 wrote:Wicked, I see alot of you asking people for their suspicions but I really haven't seen anyone ask you it (I get the general gist, me and Tarson), but do you have an official list?
I'll try to come up with a list when I'm caught up.
tarsonisocelot in post 142 wrote:Wicked, it's a bit early in the game to claim anything definite based on a lack of stated suspicions. I never know what to do as any alignment early game and need more information than you appear to to develop a list of reads.
1. As shown by this post, you did have thoughts on the game, but you hadn't been providing those thoughts.
2. You can strengthen/obtain reads by questioning players. At the time I voted for you, your scumhunting had consisted of a single question directed at HezLucky which had no followup."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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Alright, so I'm not caught up, but I'm pretty much there. Forgot the days were two weeks and noticed I have 4 votes, so I'll post my current thoughts now. Below is the playerlist in order from most townish to most suspicious...
Town
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Kid Know Nothing
YankCane151
Rainbowdash
bobsnox
HezLucky
LobsterCatapult
Vifam
Horrifying Hero
tarsonisocelot
ConfidAnon
el simo
avasthearties
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Scum
Unvote. Vote: avasthearties
Reasons later. First I'm going to defend myself. There are so many things wrong with the points against me."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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Horrifying Hero wrote:Anyway, Wick pretty much ruined it. But here's what I got from his posts.It's like he doesn't give a fuck, he isn't curious as town would be, hell he hints at scum-motivated reason why Mastin would claim miller, but doesn't legitimately pressure him.
The bolded is absolutely right. I don't really care about the miller claim. Ultimately, I plan to judge you based on your play. There are several players that ignored or didn't comment on your miller claim. Why are you going afterme? There are several reasons why I didn't want to have a discussion regarding the miller claim...
- In both games I had played with a miller in the past, I think everyone agreed that the miller claim was a null tell. I don't think a miller discussion is necessary.
- I wasn't interested in a discussion regarding your miller claim. I'm playing this game to have fun and I don't want to get in what I feel is a boring theory discussion.
- I believe that a theory discussion is a terrible way of getting out of the RVS. Somebody's opinion regarding theory usually doesn't have anything to do with their allignment, imo, but it can often be mistaken as allignment indicative.
I had a slight reason to doubt the miller claim, but there wasn't really anything I thought I could do to pressure you. Yes, Icouldhave attacked you because I thought Mastin may have suggested that you claim miller, but there would be absolutely nothing you could say or do to defend yourself. I didn't really see any point in pressuring you.
Horrifying Hero wrote:Instead, he's nods the claim off as nothing and encourages everyone to answer lame-RQS questions, which I still don't know if they had a productive use.
You're right, I did nod the claim off as nothing. Aside from the fact that you couldn't be investigated, it means nothing to me- it's a null tell.
My RQS questions did have a productive use but they weren't meant to get us out of RVS. I was fine with simply random voting as a means of getting out of RVS.
Horrifying Hero wrote:Btw, Hez is pretty obvious town. This shouldn't need explanation.
...it does when the link doesn't work. Mind linking us to the post you were talking about here?
Horrifying Hero wrote:Yonzy's also pretty obvious scum. Town don't RVS vote for the sake of. Scum do because they want to blend in. It's even better because this beautiful interaction between Yonzy/Wick shows that Wick is literally asking questions for the sake of.
I thought Yonzy's posts were suspicious as well, but he was not obvious scum. I don't like how you completely ignore the possibility of him being newbtown.
@Mastin- Have you ever, as town, not posted in a game simply because you were "observing"? If so, can you link me to the game?
Response to the rest of the accusations coming up next."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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tarsonisocelot wrote:I did not like the "I'll explain later why I'm voting, after some other people have". It seems like a way of trying to get other people to provide the arguments for a wagon, thus subtly pushing others to change their reads on a player (in this case me) without having to actually provide a reason for them to. As other people didn't bite Wicked was left arguing that I was scum because I was lurking/inactive, as the vote was cast in post #101 then that was a bad reason (though later in the day it would have held merit).
I explained why I didn't give my reason for my vote. I wanted to see who agreed with me without seeing the point against you. I've done this before as town. Here's an example. It's nothing out of the ordinary.
tarsonisocelot wrote:Not only does this read like a major mistake from bobsnox, but Wicked just drops it totally after this to vote for Mastin.
The question directed at bobsnox wasn't a result of suspicion towards bobsnox, but because I was curious to know who he suspected. I had no reason to think his answer to my question was a lie and saw no scum motivation for confusing two players with one in another just so he could keep his random vote for less than another day.
Friend wrote:I think it's scummy how wicked shies away from HH's pressure on him in his Post 44. Especially after how he deflects it towards ConfidAnon in his next post. Saying "it's not a lynch-worthy case" shows that he's not out thirsting for blood over something that small. I don't see it as any sort of scumtell.
Firstly, I don't see how I shied away from HH's suspicion of me. He never gave any reasons and refused to explain his vote even when I asked. What the heck was I supposed to do instead and how exactly did I even shy away?
Secondly, I still think it was unneccessary to mention that the case wasn't lynch-worthy. That was something that was fairly obvious anyway and it just gives him room to backpedal if he gets suspicion for his vote. Also, I would like to point out that LobsterCatapult, the player that Friend replaced and supposedly knows was town, also used this point against ConfidAnon. I don't see why he is suspecting me for this.
Friend wrote:Don't know why Wicked hasn't put a vote down on Yank yet.
Really? It's not complicated. He wasn't my top suspect. That doesn't mean I can't express or support the suspicion of him though.
Friend wrote:Bad vote by Wicked in his Post 115. Weak wagon-hop on someone who's obviously pretty confident on him being scum.
Firstly, what does it matter if HH suspects me? Is it always suspicious to vote somebody that suspects you? Secondly, HH wasn't explaining any of his reads and I wanted that to change. I figured the only way to force them to explain was by pressuring them. I noticed HH had a bandwagon and realized that bandwagon might not be there forever. I took advantage of the attention on him and voted him then.
Friend wrote:God, again. Wicked throws soft suspicion towards Yank like Yank did towards him, but neither of them are willing to put down a vote against each other.
I'll quote myself:
Wickedestjr wrote:Really? It's not complicated. He wasn't my top suspect. That doesn't mean I can't express or support the suspicion of him though.
Friend wrote:Wicked is slipping into the background with all this Yank/Hez business, and it's getting awfully suspicious.
Are you freaking kidding me? I was V/LA!!! No wonder I was slipping into the background. Kind of hard not to when you have out-of-game reasons for not being capable of posting. Also, I would just like to point out that I was the most active player prior to my V/LA so I have a lot of trouble seeing
And that's why Friend voted me and why several others have followed him. Pretty damn weak if you ask me. And I'm being asked to claim forthosereasons. If I'm still a lynch candidate 24 hours from now, then I'll claim. But until then I would like those supporting my lynch to actually come up with a half-decent case which I can defend against.
avasthearties wrote:It's pretty much an unsurprise that Wicked votes for me seeing as I'm in 2nd place for the rope necklace contest... and he's in first. It seems as though he's decided to try to help push me over the edge to keep himself alive...
REALLY??? If this was actually the reason for my vote, I could have easily just voted tarsonisocelot, a player I've already expressed suspicion of.
avasthearties wrote:@Wicked How did Yank end up near the top of your little list? 3/5 of your posts are you going all "post 37 post 37" at him, and at no point do you discuss what turned you completely around on Yank. You said right before your break that you liked Confidanon's points on yank, but now he's near the bottom and Yank's at the top. Why?
Hint: My suspicion of YankCane was before the exchange between him and HezLucky. That changed my read on him. I'll explain the rest of my reads later."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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ConfidAnon, why do you suspect me. Because I'm at L-1 and there is no real case against me. It was a result of me:
*Not being interested in a discussion about the miller claim. - So what?
*Not immediately explaining my suspicion. - That's not suspicious, I've explained why I did it, and I've done it before as town. This is also a point that would be way stronger if used against HH instead.
*Not voting YankCane despite expressing suspicion of him. - So what? I had stronger suspicions at the time. That's not suspicious.
*Slipping into the background during my V/LA. - Not suspicious. In fact, it has nothing to do with my allignment and it's a terrible point because I was the most active prior to my V/LA (so it's not like I was lurking.)
*My HH vote was considered a weak wagon hop. - HH was giving us nothing to work with, so I was taking advantage of the votes and joined the bandwagon while it was there. Not suspicious.
Also, IIRC, more than half the players supporting this suspicion haven't even explained why, but instead agreed with others."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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EBWOP: Actually could everybody who suspects me answer the question I asked ConfidAnon. It's extremely frustrating when I take all the time to defend myself and rather than explain why I'm still scum, the players who suspect me just continue to suspect me and even ask for a claim."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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So... so far we have two players who are voting me but neither have given a single reason. Let's continue.
So that's three players who are voting me. Two of which haven't given a single reason for doing so and one of which has given a reason that applies to several players despite insisting I'm confirmed scum.
That's 1 of 4 players who've given reasons so far.
So that's 2 out of 5 players who've justified their position on this bandwagon. There's no way this bandwagon isn't scum motivated. Now I'm going to show how avasthearties is scum."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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I'm still working on my avasthearties case but I thought I would try and ask;Mod, can we get a deadline extension, please?I, the current top lynch candidate, was V/LA for a few days and it took me an additional few days to catch up due to the long exchange between Hez and Yank. Also, it's not like the discussion isn't going anywhere."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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@Mod: Thank you!
I don't think I have time to respond to posts directed at me right now (I'll try to do it tonight if the day isn't over by then), but I do have time for a quick post right now.
I feel that there are very weak cases against me which I have defended against (with the exception of HezLucky and LobsterCatapult's recent posts which I'll admit I haven't read yet). There is a strong case against avasthearties and he hasn't done anything to defend himself. He's at L-2 with at least three players off of his wagon who are all fine with his lynch and he's claimed to be a vanilla townie. To me, it seems like a very straight forward decision. Let's avoid making any other players claim and go with the lynch that most of the players here (even a few not voting him already) support. The worst possible outcome is we lose a vanilla townie and the scum go into the night not knowing anybody else's claim and have less of an idea as to who our powerroles are. The best and most likely outcome is that avasthearties is scum and the scum go into the night not knowing anybody else's claim.
If we do go through with this lynch, I want to see HH's wall post. However, I don't see the point in waiting for Kid Know Nothing's replacement. It will probably take a day or two for the replacement to be found and another day or two for them to catch up. I've seen enough from that slot for the day to end and think it would be best if we gave the replacement the whole entire night to catch up instead.
Thoughts on this?"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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Response and questions to Hez:
HezLucky wrote:POINT 1: META
Wicked #44 is noted for possible connection to Yank. Really? How are you the only person in this game that actually needs an explanation of my original vote for Yank? I don't believe that, given the solid player that you were in Open 302. [[Seriously, people have replaced into this game and called my original post on Yank a good one. The fact that neither you nor Yank can understand that does not strike me at all as town]]
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- WICKED IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}
I thought I understood your reason for originally voting YankCane, but I asked about it because I thought you worded it strangely and I wanted clarification. In the post where you voted him you said it was because he was trying to not offend anyone and look helpful. In my opinion, neither of these things equate to seriousness and lack of jokes (which was the reason you gave in your response to my question and the answer I was expecting) which is why I asked just to be certain. You can joke around without offending anybody and you can also joke around in response to the questions but still be helpful by adding serious answers as well. Does that make sense?
Also, why would I deliberately act like I don't understand your point against Yank? If it is because you think I'm trying to avoid suspecting Yank, then why would I proceed to cast suspicion of him in post 47, three posts later?
HezLucky wrote:POINT 2: CONNECTION TO SCUMBUDDY
Yank and Wicked are buddies baesd on #47-#49. Wicked starts arguing with Yank, and Yank gives him nothing,
no sort of crap that he gave me, since a) he's [Yank] not under pressure and (b) he's [Yank] too new to realize getting
into an argument with your scumbuddy is a good tactic d1.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- BOTH YANK & WICKED ARE 40% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}
IIRC, I can't really defend myself against this point because it is based on YankCane's actions. I would like you to pay attention to the fact that I gave Yank an FoS, not a vote.
This is a really weak vote. It revolves around another player being scum which is really bad reason because you couldn't possible know if Yank is scum if you are town and it is only day 1. Also, if your suspicion of me is based on my connection to YankCane, then why do you say:
HezLucky wrote:Horrifying Hero wrote:It's rather extensive onWicked, Vifam, and Rainbowdash being the scumteam, every bit as long as promised and then some--not even Mastin anticipated it being this conclusive. The level of detail is worth it, though.
GOOD GOD MAN FUCKING POST THIS. THIS MIGHT WIN US THE FUCKING GAME. LOOK AT MY SCUMLIST.IF I'M WRONG ABOUT YANK, YOU'VE JUST NAILED ALL THREE SCUM. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?
Because if Yank was town, then you would have no reason to suspect me."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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LobsterCatapult wrote:your first point on avast...about him commenting on vifam, i dont see the scum angle from it necessarily. vifam had posted some since then, and to me posted some valid posts, maybe some not so valid posts, but vifam had posted 21 times since avast said his reads on him. the main problem i have with avast's posts is that they are a bit wishy-washy, which is mildly scummy. however i dont see avast's read of vifam at this juncture as premature, or strange since before he said he didnt have much of a read on him, and now he does. in point, his catch up post leaves a lot to be desired, but the read on vifam to me isnt the problem.
Okay, then why do you think avasthearties felt the need to mention Vifam?
LobsterCatapult wrote:2nd point.
avast's point is valid, you were voting someone who was tied for 2nd, however, your point is also true that you could have voted other people. i dont really see the need in pointing this out.
That wasn't my only reason for having issue with avasthearties' comment. The post was also IIoA because he implied suspicion of me without explicitly saying he suspected me. Also, the implied suspicion was opportunistic.
LobsterCatapult wrote:[1: ....i dont really see why you think that avast was tunneling kkn that heavily. he only posted like. 3 times in regards to kkn.]and i agree with you on this point, i think that this point by avast is crap. i dont think his reads were accurate in regards to KKN and the yank-hez action going on. i think his reads here were false, and his post here was wishy-washy.[2: however, what do you think of avast's point on bob?]i think we can all agree that this one post by avast is pretty shitty, but, im not sure if get the whole ingenuine vibe. i think its quite unlikely that hez and yank are scum together. i still dont know about yank, still sort of leaning town on him.
1:Four times actually. But it really doesn't matter how many times he commented on or spoke with KKN and you are undermining my vote for a very very weak reason. He voted KKN in post 76, the top of page four, and didn't switch his vote until post 346, the bottom of page 14. A majority of the game he had his vote on KKN. And it was for a very weak reason: KKN cast a reasonless vote. This vote could have also gone to bobsnox. Also, if KKN is voteworthy for a majority of the game simply for voting without reason, then I'd think Horrifying Hero would have been nearly confirmed scum from avas's perspective (I've explained why). Finally, avas completely ignored and didn't make a single mention of my reasonless vote.
2:I missed it. But you've raised a good point. It's suspicious.
LobsterCatapult wrote:and no, i have other reasons for voting for you. i absolutely HATE your 113. i dont see why town should hide their reasonings for voting for someone, while asking others for their opinions on it. this seems like it comes from a scum motivation
I've explained this at least three times. I've even brought up a game where I've done this as town. What is wrong with my explanation and why am I scum for doing something that I have done before as town?
LobsterCatapult wrote:i dont like your 115. i think your vote on HH seems late for your reasoning. i feel like for your reasonings you should have voted for HH sooner, and that you are hopping on the HH wagon purely because your "case" on taron didnt work out the way you wanted. i feel like you parked your vote on HH for convenience and trying to blend in.
Firstly, HH was never and has never been my top suspect. He's one of my stronger suspicions but I didn't vote him because he was my top suspect. The vote was purely to add pressure while there was attention on that slot because I wanted them to actually contribute. Secondly, I posted my case against tarsonisocelot AFTER I voted HH. My case had never "not worked out". Nobody had suspected her prior to my reasons but I hadn't given up on that suspicion. Also, you think I'm trying to blend in? From memory, I was only the third vote.
LobsterCatapult wrote:i dont like your town->scum reads. you havent really explained some of them. this seems like scum trying to make content.
No this is town that wanted to post their new reads after being V/LA while the thread had gained 8 pages. When we are so close to deadline and I have limited time, the only read I need to explain is my strongest scumread. Also, "scum trying to make content" is really vague.
LobsterCatapult wrote:your 396 response to HH seems like you dodged the question. HH said he thought your posts read that you dont give a fuck in general, but you responded to the specific miller claim.
Uh... no. HH is correct that I don't care about the miller claim. I've explained why that doesn't make me suspicious and I've explained why I don't care about the miller claim. How and in what way did I dodge the question?
LobsterCatapult wrote:i think my predecessor's points on you and yank should be noted.
I responded to Friend's points. How was I wrong?
Rainbowdash wrote:Also Wicked trying to justify the lynch of Avas because he claimed before he did just makes me want to slow things down and think more.
What's wrong with that justification?
Rainbowdash wrote:All - If you could lynch *anyone* who would you be voting here and why? Note that Yank and Hez do not need to answer this question.
avasthearties"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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LobsterCatapult wrote:hmmmmmmm deadline extention...
unvote
vote:rainbowdash.
vifam come back. now.
I'm not seeing the Rainbowdash case; I think he's town... and I really wanted to post a picture with a pony in it.
Rainbowdash wrote:It is hoofing the "lynch all vanilla claims" line which is one of the biggest failed policies known to ponykind. In this situation it feels like more of just trying to put the final nail in a coffin, but the nail is made of glass and you are trying to hammer it in with an anvil.
Rainbowdash, there are stronger points against avasthearties and IIRC, there are more people that are interested in his lynch, and the fact that he isn't a town powerrole means, at worst, we are losing a vanilla townie. It doesn't make much sense for us to risk having another player claim when there are so many benefits of lynching avasthearties right now."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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Rainbowdash wrote:So much pony.
AAAAAH!!!
Rainbowdash wrote:If you could give me something to respond to it would be more awesome though.
I didn't really care if you responded or not. My point is that there are many other pros to lynching avasthearties right now aside from the lynching claimed VTs policy. The fact that avasthearties isn't a town powerrole just makes this lynch even better and we shouldn't have to risk outing any powerroles or narrowing down the pool of players which could be powerroles for the scum (especially not on day 1).
Amor wrote:Vifam has also requested replacement.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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For those that still aren't convinced that avasthearties is scum, note that heimpliedsuspicion of me in post 398 because he believed I was voting him solely to keep myself alive. However, in post 447, one RL day later, he votes me and says:
avasthearties wrote:Alright, I'm going to have to UNVOTE: VOTE: Wickedjust for the sake of self-preservation at this point. Bob is obvscum but Wicked still makes my top 3 and with the deadline coming up I might as well. Post coming tomorrow when I'm actually in the mood. Wicked vote will remain unless a Bob wagon starts up.
Scum trying to have his cake and eat it too.
It should also be noted that, despite the deadline extension and despite the fact that my lynch was a possibility, he hasn't made any effort to try and defend himself or contribute anything. Scum that think they are about to be lynched have no reason to contribute before they die, but town do. It should also be noted that I saw him online earlier in Little Italy.
I still want to see Horrifying Hero's post, though. If they can't finish it by the end of today, then they should just post what they have. Any evidence of scumhunting or an attempt at scumhunting would be helpful right now, because so far they've given us little to nothing. And I have a few other things to say, but I don't have time to right now."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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I'll start with el simo's post, but if I have time I'll try to respond to Horrifying Hero's wall post.
HH wrote:"I don't believe that you are capable of doing this. Try and prove me wrong."
The ultimate scumclaim, challenging us. He denies our ability, not the truth that he isn't scum. Town wants truth.Scum want logic debates.
Umm... I didn't believe you could show that I'm scumbecauseI know I am town... and the bolded portion of this quote is just stupid. You weren't giving us anything to work with. I wasn't trying to start a debate, I just wanted to see scumhunting from you or at least an attempt at it. And I was trying everything to get contributions from you- including a challenge. This isn't scum interested in a debate, but a townie trying to determine everyone's allignment.
HH wrote:...Yeah, we don't see any names in there, either. And if Wicked got to L-2 with no scum voting him, that makes him what?
Oh, yeah. Confirmed scum.
Not really a point I can defend against. But regardless of my allignment I think it is strange to say that all the players on my bandwagon are town. Are you unfamiliar with bussing?
el simo wrote:I know I started and pushed the wagon on bob, but I'd be damned if I'm allowing a lynch to form that quickly on someone with out anyone mentioning as much as even why they're voting him.
In my post 417 I show all the comments regarding me made by the players voting me. What makes my original bandwagon any different? You should note that while I didn't get the votes as quickly as bobsnox, I did get more votes. Evenyouacknowledged that you hadn't seen points against me, earlier. But the same thing happens to your top suspect and you switch your vote partially because of it.
More later. This case is pretty weak, though."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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The case on me comes down to:t
*I wasn't interested in the miller discussion. - So what? I don't believe that there was anything important to learn from a discussion regarding the claim. Theory discussions
*The questions I asked in RQS. - I've already addressed this point (thanks for ignoring me). I'll restate my previous defense: these questions weren't meant to get us out of RVS. They also weren't meant to distract from the game. You'll notice that I still random voted.
*My posts have scum tone and they all look artificial. - This isn't scum tone and my posts aren't "artificial". This is just the way I speak. I find it strange that this point is being used against me when other players (for example: avasthearties) have been pretty wishy-washy.
And I've got 4/5 votes for these reasons. Nice work, guys."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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EBWOP: Note that none of these points revolve around my actual scumhunting this game, but it is because of the way I speak, my opinion on mafia theory, and my questions in the RVS which you have incorrectly assumed the motivations for (Rainbowdash is the only player who seems to have actually figured out why I asked those questions).
Those of you who think this case is good need to learn how to scumhunt. Because that case is a load of weak BS. Seriously...
The case against avasthearties is way stronger.
But I guess Ishouldclaim, even though I really didn't want to. I'm a cop. Nice work guys."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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el simo wrote:Wickedestjr wrote:el simo wrote:I know I started and pushed the wagon on bob, but I'd be damned if I'm allowing a lynch to form that quickly on someone with out anyone mentioning as much as even why they're voting him.
In my post 417 I show all the comments regarding me made by the players voting me. What makes my original bandwagon any different? You should note that while I didn't get the votes as quickly as bobsnox, I did get more votes. Evenyouacknowledged that you hadn't seen points against me, earlier. But the same thing happens to your top suspect and you switch your vote partially because of it.
More later. This case is pretty weak, though.
Relevance is? I was never voting you and I wasn't going to because of the lack of a substantial case on you.
You voted me in your last post. Post 533."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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Horrifying Hero wrote:
Really, now? Then mind explaining this?Wicked? wrote:1. I was never distrustful of the miller claim.
If anything, this was setting up something like a tracker claim, since that'd give you a reason to doubt a miller being in the game.Wicked wrote:I had a slight reason to doubt the miller claim, but there wasn't really anything I thought I could do to pressure you.
But a cop?
NO FUCKING WAY DOES A COP POST THAT.
~Lat
Why don't you read the thread again? I gave my reason for having a slight doubt about your miller claim. You even acknowledged it. I wasn't setting myself up to claim tracker. And if I was, then why would I claim cop? This post is stupid.
Horrifying Hero wrote:Millers are a role MADE to be in setups with a Cop. YOU DON'T FUCKING IGNORE/DISTRUST A MILLER CLAIM AS A COP.
~Lat
Are you freaking kidding me? It doesn't work both ways. A miller implies a cop, but a cop in now way implies that there is a miller in the game. How about you actually do some decent scumhunting instead of trying to confirm your scumread based off of weak fluff?"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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el simo wrote:He isn't saying that a cop implies there is a miller and that argument is irrelevant to what he is saying. He is saying that you, as a cop, wouldn't have ignored or doubted the presence of a claimed miller.
Are you serious? I never doubted the miller claim. I had a slight reason to, but I ultimately wrote it off as a null tell. And when I said I ignored the claim that didn't mean I was ignoring the fact that he would show up as guilty if investigated but that I was ignoring it when trying to determine his allignment.
Horrifying Hero wrote:Wickedestjr wrote:I think it is strange to say that all the players on my bandwagon are town. Are you unfamiliar with bussing
Quicktopic, Paraphrased wrote:HE ISN'T EVEN DENYING THAT HE IS SCUM!
To elaborate on this, note how he does not deny that it's true that he's scum. He simply tries to say that the wagon is not all town. In fact, he even CALLS it bussing. SCUM CAN'T BUS TOWN, NOW, CAN THEY? It's another scumclaim from Wicked. He's furthermore trying to deflect attention onto the wagon, to get suspicion there rather than on him. It's a subtle but quite effective OMGUS.
Are you kidding me? Are you really this bad? You took away part of that comment. It should've said:
Wickedestjr wrote:But regardless of my allignmentI think it is strange to say that all the players on my bandwagon are town. Are you unfamiliar with bussing?
My point was that there would be scum on my bandwagon regardless of my allignment. There would obviously be scum on my bandwagon if I was town so the purpose of my question was to consider the case where I am scum.
Horrifying Hero wrote:But you didn't just show disinterest in the miller discussion. YOU ACTIVELY TRIED TO SHUT IT DOWN. That made it go from something which might not produce anything useful, to something which DEFINITELY didn't produce anything useful. YOU DENIED THE TOWN A POSSIBLE DISCUSSION PATH.
I most certainly did not actively try to shut down the claim. That's a load of BS. My only comment regarding the idea of discussing your claim was:
Wickedestjr wrote:I doubt that a discussion about your claim would get us out of RVS. Twice I've seen a player claim miller and both times I think everyone agreed to just forget about the miller claim and judge that player's allignment based on their play. I don't really think a discussion is necessary and I believe that we should just continue the game as normal.
You'll notice I say things like "I doubt" or "I don't really think". That's because I'm giving my opinion! I'm not telling everyone else to believe the same thing.
Horrifying Hero wrote:Only very slightly. One word, in fact.
But it's true. Random Questions as scum are there for fluff. Random Questions as town are there to get information. As previously mentioned in our case, there was literally nothing productive in them--you learned nothing from them. You gained zero information from forcing others to answer. You produced, nothing out of these questions.
They were fluff. Meant to pad out your posts. They served no purpose. Other than to make you artificially look better. There's no town motive behind that.
I was planning to look back at the answers later to look for inconsistencies and get a better idea of their allignment. By explaining this, I'm kind of defeating the purpose but I asked the questions to see if they were scumhunting the way they said they would and if they seemed interested in the game or not (this would be a slight indicator that their allignment was the allignment they said that they prefer to play as). I wasn't planning to look back at this until around day 3, but now I only have the information from the first day to use.
Horrifying Hero wrote:Mastin disagrees. Strongly. Caps Lock Rage, strongly. He'll elaborate when he's calmed down.
Have you even looked at my recent completed town games?
Horrifying Hero wrote:This is blatant deflection. Not only onto another. But trying to connect two completely separate subjects. Wicked's scumtells have virtually nothing to do with being wishy-washy. Wicked's done a lot of scumtells having to do with backtracking. The two are not the same.
Umm... yeah they are the same. If you are wishy-washy that allows you to backtrack when you need to which is the reason scum are wishy-washy. You said my posts had a scum tone because they used words like:
"really", "necessary", "believe", "should", "as normal"
Let's take a look at one of avasthearties posts. I've bolded all the parts that you might see as scum tone:
avasthearties wrote:That big show managed to achieve that, as it is pretty hard to look anywhere but there with several pages of arguing. Now discussion has been moved off of KKN and onto that firestorm. I don't like the result of this attention whoring, which leads me to FOS: Yank for now.Ithat when the bandwagon on KKN started growing suddenly an arguement forms that overshadows everything else. Obviously Hez is responsible for that as well, but the reason it's Yank I am FOSing is simply that unusual statement above. If anything, there is the possibility that they could both be scum bussing eachother to get the heat off of KKN.justfind it suspicious
I was, but I'm not sure what to think of him now. Some of the stuff he has said recently has been reasonable, and lead me to havefindingBobsnox scummy in the beginningof a null read on him right now. So yeah. I don'tkindget the calls against HH though. I don'treallysee anything scummy coming from them, and the gambit in the beginningreallyas a little too... conspicuous,just strikes me, to be done by scum.I guess
IYonzy is out now and in comes Vifam, whoguessis making up for the dumbassery of his predecessor. Good reasonable defense provided for Yonzy's cluelessness. Time will tell how useful Vifam is, but I'd say currently he's about a 1 on a scale of -5 to 5 (with -5 being confirmed scum and 5 being confirmed town).I think"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
-Wickedestjr-
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Wickedestjr Jack of All Trades
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I don't like the Rainbowdash bandwagon and we shouldn't lynch Vifam because he's not going to be around to claim.
We should lynch avasthearties. It has become very very obvious that he is scum and I can't believe nobody agrees with me. If he was town he wouldn't be lurking right now and he would be trying to help us decide who the best lynch is. Notice that his current vote is one that was intended to save himself."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
-Wickedestjr-
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Wickedestjr Jack of All Trades
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Unvote. Vote: Vifam
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Not one of my strongest suspicions but I, admittedly, haven't been able to get a good read on this slot, anyway. And it doesn't look like anybody else is a lynch candidate at this stage considering we have an hour left."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
-Wickedestjr-
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Wickedestjr Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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Wickedestjr Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5212
- Joined: December 27, 2008
- Location: UTC-5
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Wickedestjr Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5212
- Joined: December 27, 2008
- Location: UTC-5
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Wickedestjr Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5212
- Joined: December 27, 2008
- Location: UTC-5