Mini 1321: Anxiety's Alliteration Mafia - Game Over

[Matias]

Vote: Internet Stranger

[Matias]

That is fine in most cases.

[Matias]

Vote: triangle123

[Matias]

And reasoning?

Nice to know that you think my vote HAD reasoning (my 2nd vote, 3rd post in the game)

Protip: It didn't, I wanted to fish reactions out of you.

Now I don't entirely think this cements you as scum, I'm keeping an eye on you.

I will wait until there are more people on DCL's wagon (if there will be any more) before I comment on it.

[Matias]

*Now while I don't entirely think this cements you as scum

[Matias]

VOTE Triangle123

odd reactions so far, lets turn the screw a little.

Sorry for being late to the party, busy week.

What's odd about it?

@Matias

the problem with reactions is that no matter what someone always as that question when there is no reasoning for a vote.

Well, the basis of Triangle's reasoning for that reaction is that I had my vote on IS before I switched it over to Triangle. You have someone who also switched their RVS vote from me over to DCL in the same fashion for (what seems to be?) the same reason.

It just seems weird that she'd specifically pick out a single vote on her wagon for having no reasoning on the first page, but like I've said, I'm keeping my eye on her. I'm certainly not crusading for a lynch.

[Matias]

Nice to know that you think my vote HAD reasoning (my 2nd vote, 3rd post in the game)

Well, obviously it had reasoning because it was your second vote. Something made you change your vote from your random vote.

For the record, there are plenty of games where there is more than one RVS vote (and not only from me. Plenty of people have done it). When they find that their current vote isn't giving them information, they switch it in an attempt to get more.

When my vote is serious, I give reasoning.

[Matias]

Okay, on one hand, I was going to say it would be very easy to hop onto DCLXVI's wagon and that one of the wagoners would be scum, but that triangle vote was horrible.

There goes my analysis on that wagon.

@farside: It didn't seem to me that triangle wanted to save her ass, but more like she wanted to know why I switched my vote. That doesn't correlate to her own safety.

[Matias]

Unvote

. I will wait to see whether DCL or one of his wagoners should die, because right now, I'm not sure.

@DCL: Like Farside's question to bristep, what was "weird" about her reaction?

[Matias]

But she had already explained herself before you put that vote on her...

[Matias]

Nice to know that you think my vote HAD reasoning (my 2nd vote, 3rd post in the game)

Well, obviously it had reasoning because it was your second vote. Something made you change your vote from your random vote.

[Matias]

And you realize that that was her viewpoint the whole time, right? That votes should come with explanations?

She never voted a 2nd time, I did. And the vote she did give came with an RVS reason.

[Matias]

Basically, it's like you're reaching for reasons to follow bri's logic and throw your vote on her wagon.

Vote: DCL

. Scum DCL would also most likely mean triangle town. Scum DCL would not absolve the DCL wagon.

[Matias]

@DCL: So, what did you mean?

I'm flexible, I've made mistakes before.

[Matias]

It's somewhat opportunistic (going on the other bandwagon without giving adequate reasoning), but what's more striking to me is that he seems to be attempting to downplay the "seriousness" of his vote by additionally providing a joking comment. To me this sounds like he could be trying to deflect attention off his vote.

So, we are not allowed to joke in RVS anymore? that's a shame.

Like farside said, your vote was "semi-serious" and you even said it yourself. That's not an RVS vote.

It's possible that you're just overwhelmed, but improbable, so my urge to lynch you is rising.

[Matias]

Triangle's vote is L-2, for the record.

[Matias]

...I have a problem with this. You can't state in the post that it's "semi-serious" and then backtrack saying it wasn't serious at all.

It makes a hell of a difference since Triangle is the competing wagon.

[Matias]

semi serious vote

vote:Triangle

She had a weird reaction to getting voted. Besides, I've never been a selfish player, I want her bandwagon to be bigger than mine.

I'm assuming that because it's "semi-serious", the first part is serious (which you later claim isn't, since you said that if it was serious, you'd have a better reason) and the second is a joke (which I could buy).

Now you're saying it wasn't serious at all. People have a right to say that you're trying to sneak onto the wagon.

[Matias]

UNVOTE:

I have to admit, Matias is making me uneasy. Specifically this -

Unvote

. I will wait to see whether DCL or one of his wagoners should die, because right now, I'm not sure.

Seems sure of himself and it's a narrow focus. There are tons of people who haven't even bothered to really check in and react. I mean, I know we need to have people push start things but it still bothers me.

vote: Matias

:goodposting:

---

Matias, I understand that it's early and exaggerating a player's scumminess is important to getting the game out of RVS. But I have to ask you, how much do you actually believe your own arguments against DCL? I can't really see DCL scum based on what he's done. Calling a vote semi-serious and later saying its not the serious isn't honestly a backtrack, and its not even advantageous to scum as far as I can tell. Combined with what Gertrude pointed out, it seems a lot less like legitimate scum hunting and a lot more like searching for the easiest mislynch.

---

63 from farside is also :goodposting:. Eagerly awaiting bri's response.

---

Top 2 suspects as of right now are Bristep and Matias. Bristep is looking like he could really use a wagon, but I'll wait for him to respond to Farside.

You have to remember that the crux of my argument is that he did this to get on

triangle's

wagon. It's not just because he went back on the seriousness of his vote (which is MUCH stranger of a reaction than triangle's reaction to my vote).

Also, @Gertrude: the wagon of DCL's pre-triangle vote and DCL himself was 4 out of the 13 players playing, so can you really call that such a small subset? I haven't forgotten the people who haven't checked in, but I simply don't have the information on them to make a conscious decision about how they are. I usually regard the lurkers around the middle of Day 2, which Day 1 is hardly a good judging timeframe on who's lurking and who isn't.

[Matias]

As a final note, I see farside's argument against bristep and I haven't discounted it, but bristep isn't my main focus. My main focus is figuring out DCL's jump onto triangle and the circumstances around that. One thing at a time.

The seriousness is important BECAUSE it is triangle. Had it been someone random, I doubt anyone would have really cared much.

[Matias]

The seriousness is a factor because of the person who's wagon you jumped on. Had you voted someone like farside, or IS, or whoever, the fact that you "weren't serious" after the fact wouldn't have been that important of a factor, but triangle is the competing wagon. I thought that everyone understood that this was the context.

[Matias]

You have to remember that the crux of my argument is that he did this to get on

triangle's

wagon. It's not just because he went back on the seriousness of his vote (which is MUCH stranger of a reaction than triangle's reaction to my vote).

If I understand the point you're making, its that the seriousness of the vote was questionable mainly because of the fact that there were two competing wagons and DCL was adding his vote to the competing one. What I'm interested in is what specifically makes this a scumtell. I would be totally with you if this were later in the day when wagons actually have some drive to lynch. But I think its worth pointing out that the vote was placed on page two. You can't seriously argue that he was trying to prevent his own lynch or any of that nonsense. It seems a lot more to me like DCL wasn't even thinking about the vote count when he voted, and he put the semi-serious because he was, well, semi-serious. It was more than a dice roll, but less than a solid reason for suspicion.

My question to you is what specifically about what he did hints at scum motivation? Otherwise saying something about lynching him this early is pretty scummy.

It's scummy because

1. It was an attempt to hop onto the competing wagon to save his own ass, in my view
2. He created an out for himself (albeit a terrible one) by saying he was only SEMI-serious just in case he was called out on it

2 is an issue because of 1.

@DCL: What the hell was with the switch onto IS and then a giant case on triangle? What was the point of that switch if you were in the middle of writing a case (half of the case that you posted was before your IS vote and you had time to review, so don't tell me you didn't see it)? And do you REALLY believe what you wrote against IS?

I have a lot against you now; it's not JUST your switch onto triangle any longer.

[Matias]

I'm actually on the fence about Elias. He's taken a safe stance on nearly everything.

[Matias]

Elias, does the fact that DCL jumped onto the competing wagon mean anything to you or does it not?

[Matias]

Actually, I do think that join date and experience have a lot to do in this regard, and maybe that's why he came off as such to me. Do you believe that newer players have a correct perception of the seriousness of a wagon at certain times? Because I certainly didn't when I started playing.

I see your point, though. Don't think that I don't.

[Matias]

For the record, it wasn't explicitly stated, but experience did play a bit of a factor inertly. I'm sure that if farside, you or IS had done the same thing, I would have at least viewed it different (and at the very least, thought it was strange).

Experience always plays on my mind. It's rare that I come out swinging towards an experienced player, to be quite honest.

[Matias]

Who, me? Or everyone?

[Matias]

Triangle's town if DCL is scum. I'm waiting for Elias' answer, however. I wasn't sure why he was attacking me earlier, but I get it now and I'd like to hear more. Triangle strikes me as okay at the moment after RVS.

Prae leans town for me. He took Gertrude's criticism in stride.

Notes on a few other people: You're confusing me, I want to hear more from lane, and I think that IS's absence makes him slightly more town. Everytime I've seen him as scum, he's been abrasive and aggressive.

[Matias]

Experience always plays on my mind. It's rare that I come out swinging towards an experienced player, to be quite honest.

Why in the world would this make any difference? It's like you're admitting you like picking on easy targets and that can't be what you're trying to say.

I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that the trend, for me in particular, is that newer players seem to do a lot of the more odd behavior and those are the ones I seem to chase (inadvertently) in RVS and for the first few pages. This game is also one of those cases.

[Matias]

4 people isn't a narrow focus.

[Matias]

4 people is a completely narrow focus when half the players were still lurking at that point. Let me check who was on that wagon, but unless you're going to push the first random vote as hard as the next three, then you're narrowing it even further. How much did you believe that statement when you made it? (post 35 I believe, one of DCL or her wagon should be lynched)

I wasn't ecstatic about HOW the wagon came to be, which is different than triangle's wagon. Your switch seemed a little off to me, but I was going on gut at that point and was trying to push the game along. Triangle's wagon post-2nd comment had reasoning, which is why I didn't really care about that wagon. Your issue seems to be my terminology of "which should DIE" on page two, which is really me just trying to nudge the game along. I get a bit aggressive in RVS. That, along with DCL's terrible switch on triangle kind of made the wagon collateral. That's basically it. Otherwise, suspecting 4 out of the 13 people in this game on the 2nd page shouldn't be something terribly narrow.

No one wants short days, and I thought that would be obvious.

My point, abridged:

1. Pushing 4 out of 13 people for information isn't a narrow focus
2. My terminology of "die" was a bit strong for page two, sure
3. In light of 2., I didn't want anyone dead before we came to a reasoned consensus. Take a look at my meta and see how I act when I want someone dead. Starcraft, in particular, comes to mind when it comes to me crusading for a lynch.

@DCL:

So if I flipped town, would you consider triangle scum?

No. That's a flaw in logic. A->B doesn't mean B->A

So...If you are saying newer players do odd behavior just because they are new. Why then is odd play from a new player more of a scum tell, wouldn't it be less of a scum tell by your logic?

I'm saying that early attractions to voting the newer players for odd behavior is an easy thing to do when you're trying to get the game going. I'm not saying that those are the people I end up voting in the end, we're talking about RVS here.

[Matias]

For the record, I apologize on being a little slow on the cases. I've been sick for a while and a lot of these points are hitting me just now; for a while, I wasn't exactly sure why everyone was attacking me, but I get it.

[Matias]

Elias, I'm still waiting for your reply, if you would. I'm interested in hearing more.

Unvote

[Matias]

I know what the question is.

You created a chain of events where, if you flip scum, that makes triangle town because of your actions.

If you flip town, the chain of events where if you were scum, that would make triangle town, doesn't apply. Therefore, it makes triangle either town or scum, because there's no chain of events that you created that makes triangle scum if you are town.

A->B =/= B->A fits perfectly here. Your logic is misguided.

[Matias]

...I'm not sidestepping it and my answer was clearly no in the first reply.

You need to read and to stop getting on my nerves

[Matias]

Oh, actually

fever is fucking me up. A->B and B->A doesn't apply. that means if DCL is scum, triangle is town and if triangle is town, DCL is scum.

I'm thinking A->B, not A -> not B. Figures out the same, semantics are different. Apologies.

You had your answer in the first reply regardless

[Matias]

IIRC, Denying the antecedent – the consequent in an indicative conditional is claimed to be false because the antecedent is false; if A, then B; not A, therefore not B

[Matias]

The above being a fallacy.

Sorry for the fancy talk. Had to clear it up.

No, you being town doesn't make triangle scum implicitly.

[Matias]

I said I was to look at the whole wagon.

The difference between the triangle wagon and the DCL wagon was that I guess I saw somewhat of an easy bandwagon to hop onto. The reasons were kind of fluffy and I suppose I didn't see where you guys were trying to get information from.

Triangle posted and there were very short votes that gained a non-RVS reaction from triangle, and the wagon had a purpose as opposed to the DCL wagon which just seemed to kind of flounder. The triangle wagon (as stated earlier by me) had reasoned votes after her reaction; they weren't really sheeping. You're saying that it's weak reasoning, and I agree. But it was page 2.

I got distracted by the DCL to triangle vote to analyze it in really great detail. Basically, I felt it served no purpose and I felt like the way it came to be pinged my gut as useless/strange.

Preview edit, @DCL:

You should know that you asked me that would I find triangle scum, caused by you flipping town. That's what I replied to and that's what I thought you would understand after the first reply. I've stated before in a reply to scooby my logic, reasoning and my view on triangle, so please find that.

If you don't mean this, then I have no clue what the hell you mean. I've addressed both points (you town implicitly meaning triangle scum and you town not meaning jack shit), so I have no clue what else you could be looking for.

[Matias]

I've been out of commission. I need some more time to rest.

[Matias]

More time needed, but slight thoughts:

Temp and praetyre look awful now. Elias convinced me to look at all angles at DCL so I need time to look at him more.

Answers to questions directed toward me soon.

Vote: praetyre

[Matias]

Vote reasoning: not paying attention to the game at all. Elias + Gertrude vs me has been the most specific part of this game. If you aren't paying the slightest bit of attention, you're suspect

Temp's reads look and feel so hollow. That could mean a lack of reading and not care, so he's not top suspect

Mmk bye now

[Matias]

...you're missing something.

Are you suggesting my DCL read is hollow?

[Matias]

Not reading =/= not caring. Perhaps a townie doesn't have time to read but wants to throw current reads out. Boom.

People who don't care usually don't read, however.

DCL is something I need a refreshing look on. It's not that I didn't read what he posted.

[Matias]

I'm alive.

Going to read up and post.

[Matias]

I should advise everyone not to vote for scooby. His town meta points to him throwing himself at people at screaming at them using buzzwords incorrectly. He is not good at logic. Scum scooby just likes to lurk and avoid people

Instead, my advice is to simply ignore him.

No offense, scooby, but I'm not letting you get yourself killed and wasting a lynch that is clearly meant for praetyre.

[Matias]

Triangle is also town. Her arguments are sound and scooby is simply taking them out of context.

I've re-read DCL, and I'm willing to say that inexperience made him think the way he did at this stage. I think the argument between Gertrude and I are put to bed, the differences between the triangle and DCL wagon were explained, whatever. We clearly should be going after the semi-lurkers and those simply responding to attacks with tacked on "scumhunting" like Praetyre.

Null on IS and Elias. IS's posts against DCL are something to keep in mind for the future.

farside is by far and away town. Gertrude is townish.

Vig should shoot Temp in the face for being lurky and scummy and OBVIOUSLY attempting to get by without being noticed.

redFF, I have no clue on. gorkcat is town and bristep hopping onto the triangle wagon doesn't mean anything.

Can we lynch Prae before the deadline hits?

[Matias]

I say that a vig should shoot Temp because I don't line up lynches, that's not my thing. I do want him dead however and I don't want him to cover his scummy behavior with unsound arguments and confuse the town.

[Matias]

I'm guessing Captain Corporeal is in for innocentvillager.

To anyone still on the triangle wagon: The triangle wagon has no backing, it will not happen and there's no reason why it should happen. Please get off of it and vote for Praetyre.

[Matias]

triangle, this is a stupid argument and you should not respond to scooby any longer because we have a deadline soon. Any qualms that scooby has for you can be solved the next day, should all parties still be alive then.

[Matias]

Basically, the more you and scooby fight, the worse scooby looks and the more that the general populace will want to lynch him for arguments with holes in it (take 666 as an example).

This is not what we need.

No one wants to lynch Prae? Fine. But will also not be whoever comes out of this argument the loser, because whoever wins, we all lose.

We have all available information, unless people want to discuss one of the general lurkers (innocentvillager, Prae, temp, red's spot which I guess he is fulfilling correctly, IS)

[Matias]

Elias, that was simply a comment that I didn't like his switch onto IS.

I think scooby's meta is more blatant and therefore noteworthy. Can you explain what it is about Praetyre's meta that really cements his scum play apart from his town play?

[Matias]

I would also be okay with a temp lynch.

Prae or temp are my strongest scum reads, either one of them or convince me of someone else. Deadline is in nearly two days, can we get this done?

[Matias]

Unvote, Vote: temp

I was going to wait for a general consensus, but the 2nd on his wagon wouldn't hurt.

[Matias]

gorckat came off as very stand-offish to me and that's not something I see scum introduced in midgame doing. I don't know, that read could be totally backwards at this point; I have less information about him, but I see much scummier players right now.

[Matias]

Those that lurk to a no lynch by not voting Temp, or post without voting temp are people who I'm going to be voting tomorrow, jsyk.

[Matias]

Gertrude, hammer in your next post, please.

[Matias]

We don't need a discussion between corporeal and 666. Most assuredly opinions will change and people will change votes in a stroke of "brilliance" and cause a no lynch.

[Matias]

For the record, no. Its not a particularly good lynch. But it is better than a no lynch.

[Matias]

^ This is why we shouldn't lynch gorckat today. TheFool needs to read and whatever.

We honestly have less information on that slot than Temp.

[Matias]

Gertrude wasn't a "lets get town out of the way" kill. It was obviously a kill fueled by paranoia.

Suspicions on Triangle and TheFool.

[Matias]

Prae wouldn't have fear-killed Gertrude. Gertrude did everything she can to not lynch him.

Lets wait to hear who got neighborized, have triangle/Fool check in (fool needs to give his reads), then deal with wagons. I'm more inclined to lynch Fool over Triangle with all evidence from D1 in mind.

[Matias]

Wow.

No one is lynching Prae, Fool OR red until some nightkills get tossed around. There's a coinflip chance that they're all town, or ONE is scum. I highly doubt 2-3 mafia neighborizers.

Vote: Triangle

. I'm fixated on this nightkill, and Fool is out of the question. We should not waste lynches on people who will need to be whittled down in the future by scum (and yes, there's a near 100% chance that at least one is town, if not two.)

[Matias]

For the record, one of red/fool should be suspected (and lynched near endgame) if their slots called Prae scum, or suspected him and then turned around and said that he's town today. They should have known right from the claim that he would be town to them. I haven't gone back and read, so I don't know who said what quite yet.

[Matias]

Also, there is a chance that there are multiple same-faction neighborizers. They are roles that are either completely useless, moderately harmful or slightly helpful.

[Matias]

I've been participating in a game called Humans vs Zombies (my school created it woot!) which essentially involves sneaking around and not being seen. Since I don't have my own computer at present and going to the library is hella risky, I haven't been posting much. HvZ will end tomorrow or Saturday and I'll tell y'all what's what.

Best game ever. I sprained my ankle doing this last week.

I don't get the discussion over lynching the claimed neighborizers. They will have to be whittled down eventually and we'd be wasting lynches on them when the town ones would have to be killed in the next few days anyway.

[Matias]

Also, I apologize for my absence.

A million things happened. Life wants me dead. I will not oblige.

I need some time.

[Matias]

I'm ok with lynching either of Prae or Elias.

I'm sure you're okay with lynching everyone.

Your day 2 play has been abysmally scummy so far. If triangle had no motivation due to Gertrude's push on her to nightkill her as scum, I'd be voting you now that the neighborizers claimed.

Why are you so back and forth with DCL, by the way? It's like you aren't even putting any dedicated thought behind your reads.

[Matias]

If triangle had no motivation due to Gertrude's push on her to nightkill her as scum

Oh, please. Is that your best scum read? The last comment you made about me before Day 2 was to affirm a strong town read you have on me,

and Gertrude pushed on you far more than me

. Who are your other scum reads?

That supports my nightkill analysis, you know.

I've said who my other scumreads are. IS is one of them, you are scum because of nightkill analysis. It's pretty obvious when Gertrude had no business being killed last night and there IS an underlying reason, and it's simply because of feeling threatened.

Fool was scum until his claim. He may still be scum, and if there is scum within the neighborizers, then he's it, but we're not touching the neighborizers.

You're saying that Gertrude's death was due to her looking town as per your logic and disbelief in my nightkill analysis, right? Why didn't a much more active townie die instead of Gertrude, who's lynch was still on the table?

[Matias]

They never rng kill.

I also don't think they would be PR hunting at this stage of the game.

[Matias]

Matias is scum.

Flying low enough under the radar.
Setting up future lynches (Like mine for starters)
Crappy reasoning for starting the Triangle lynch.

Matias reeks of mislynching opportunistic scum.

What was Matias stance on the neighbor bullshit? I can't find it looking this up on my phone.

Unvote: Prae
Vote: Matias

Scooby, what's your rage opinion on Matias?

Now this is the IS scum meta that I know

You attack the first guy who attacks you because you panic. Do you want me to bring up meta of you doing this constantly as scum (since I don't really remember a game where you were town, even in MK mafia)?

Where was this "you reek of mislynching opportunistic scum" earlier today? Day 1? Why didn't you disagree with town reads on me, and express your opinions? Why have you completely avoided me until I mentioned you?

Unvote, Vote: Internet Stranger

. The Gertrude kill was weird. I still believe that it was a defensive kill made by those that Gertrude targeted, but this post solidifies IS as scum for me.

[Matias]

I'm ok with lynching either of Prae or Elias.

I'm sure you're okay with lynching everyone.

Your day 2 play has been abysmally scummy so far. If triangle had no motivation due to Gertrude's push on her to nightkill her as scum, I'd be voting you now that the neighborizers claimed.

Why are you so back and forth with DCL, by the way? It's like you aren't even putting any dedicated thought behind your reads.

The post in question

You didn't even answer the question. Do you realize that your scum meta is so blatant?

[Matias]

Elias, is my case on IS an exaggeration? Do you believe he is doing a good job scumhunting?

[Matias]

Why can't we combine both

[Matias]

OMGUS, first off, isn't even a legitimate scumtell, so that's that. Second off, my whole entire point is that I attacked IS first and only then did he mention me.

Don't you think you have it backwards? My case on IS is not because it's OMGUS, but because he consistently does this as scum. He DOES OMGUS but also strikes when opportune, so it applies with him. His reads other than that have been complete shit.

[Matias]

WTF Prae, do I look like I'm lurking?

I'm already saying Matias is scum. He is clearly

sniping

. Also, what happened to his initial Triangle reads and vote? He sure abandoned it quick. He was also ignoring all of the current discussions for the day.

Matias is scum.

I can say a lot about this.

1. You say that I'm scum but you're hardly even pushing the issue. You aren't trying to convince anyone that I'm scum, you threw your vote on and just sort of didn't say anything else. That's cool and all but it brings me to my 2nd point
2. You ARE lurking. You're posting when called out or when it's opportune, and that's all. You've done jack shit to scumhunt, and you only seem to attack when necessary, which brings me to my 3rd point
3. YOU are the one sniping, not me. You're the one who didn't mention me at all until I said I thought you were scum, and only said anything further when Praetyre called you out. Otherwise, you sit there and try to avoid the game. Potshots. Here I am, trying to sort out what's useful discussion and what's not useful discussion, which brings me to my 4th point
4. Me "sniping" is clearly a bullshit argument. I've said my peace on the neighbor situation. I haven't said anything about Elias because I'm still trying to read him. In fact, I have plenty of reads, which brings me to my 5th point
5. I never "abandoned" my triangle read. It's still there. I still think she is scum due to nightkill analysis. I just think the wagon was formed in a strange way with people like scooby on it (he has terrible logic in this game). I also think it's imperative to lynch you now that I'm more certain that you're scum and you have a way of completely avoiding everyone, like you did Day 1 AND most of Day 2, and this brings me to my 6th point
6. I will look at triangle in the future because the only reason why I believe she is scum is nightkill analysis.

Basically, IS, what I'm trying to say is that you're a giant fucking hypocrite. And I use that term loosely, because I'm NONE of the things you've pointed out. You just made it apparent that it's what YOU'RE doing.

Can we lynch this guy now please? Can we just leave the fucking neighbors alone until scum is forced to pick them off, and put the Elias+triangle+farside discussion to bed and bring it back up tomorrow?

[Matias]

Oh, and IS, answer my fucking question about DCL. You've avoided it 4 times now in 4 different posts.

[Matias]

Lol he's still trying to convince people that I dropped the triangle read.

[Matias]

IS. Look at the last 4 or so pages for context.

triangle before that. I currently don't have a third suspect.

I am not willing to lynch any of the 3 neighborizers.

[Matias]

I fucking explained all of this, goddamn. Like three times now. Can you actually read?

can you actually fucking answer the question about DCL that I asked you about 3 times now

I'll get a summary up for you in a bit, farside.

[Matias]

IS, if you don't answer the question about DCL in your next posts and instead post a sniping statement about my read on triangle, the insults will spew out of my mouth like a waterfall, so help me god. this is your warning.

[Matias]

That Triangle vote barely even counts. Triangle is just looking to save his ass now.

I'm curious as to why Triangle doesn't even mention Matias in his reasoning. I mean, if you're going to plunk down a responsible vote on me, wouldn't you at least take a look at what I'm saying? Yet, not even a mention of Matias. Did Triangle even mention Matias earlier when Atias was voting for Triangle? Why the glaring ommission?

How's this for a conspiracy theory? Maybe they are both scum that I caught trying to plant a weak vote that suddenly went awry and turned into a wagon. This coming after me business is just a ruse to hide that fact. But I won't go with that. I don't think Matias has the balls to try something like that.

I will say that Matias is definitely playing the obfuscation game now. If his case on me was so solid, he would repeat it on demand instead of going with a bunch of screaming and hand waving.

Matias clearly isn't being sincere with what he says. His interactions with Triangle are incredibly sketchy and he isn't making much ground with his scummy efforts. He sure doesn't shine much when put onto the spotlight.

I'm pretty sure Matias is scum.

holy fucking shit, you can't be this absentminded.

Farside, my case on IS is what you see in front of you. I asked him a question about DCL early on when I've noticed that he was sniping people and then lurking, and he turned right around and started a crusade against me. This not only goes with his scum meta, but is just extremely scummy in general. He names reads and barely pushes them. I asked him about a billion times why his DCL read went back and forth and he's ignored me over the course of about 10 posts now, obviously not wanting to answer it.

It's obvious that it's an attempt to pin dirt on people who are looking the other way and then disappearing when opportune.

I want IS lynched because he is a far more dangerous scum than triangle could ever be. Which, by the way, the only reason why I suspect triangle in the first place is simply because of nightkill information. This might change.

IS, if you are scum, you are obvious. If you are town, you are being terrible this game.

[Matias]

IS, if you want to save some time and effort, I can write your next post for you. You're extremely predictable anyway.

[Matias]

Because he's being called out on it.

[Matias]

It's clear that Triangle and Matias are scum. They continually make things up in order to look town.

In fact, they make things up so much, they accuse me of X. How can they believe hogwash like that? Triangle is clearly lying. I think Matias is lying too, and he's definitely scum trying to get by. He keeps just screaming and yelling and doesn't do any scumhunting.

Matias is scum.

Here, IS, I wrote your next post for you. Yep, you're welcome!

[Matias]

Oh, did you guys see how he started a crusade against triangle the minute she voted him? It's priceless

If IS does flip scum (which he probably will), triangle will be cleared for me.

[Matias]

IS, if you answer my question about DCL that I gave you in my first post directed towards you, I'll consider listening to your posts. If you continue to blatantly ignore it, consider my checked out of anything you have to say starting from now.

[Matias]

I fail to see a crusade againt Triangle. If anything I'm doing everything but blatantly call her town. Sounds like more mischaracterization against me.

Oh, so you are human.

I refute that by saying that you did the same thing against me and it turned into a crusade. It was a slight exaggeration.

You are attacking her in a roundabout way, and only after she voted for you. Basically the same circumstance.

[Matias]

well damn, guess its follow the cop time. Never did like how elias was questioning me.

unvote:praetyr
vote:Elias

and I agree that there is no way do we have three neighborizers with a cop and tracker.

Holy shit. Why are we lynching elias? We have forever to whittle down whatever suspects are in the grey area and then voting for elias when need be, or when scooby gets killed.

Jesus, ive seen some bad play this game. I believe scooby is town who is lying to get a lynch off. Lame.

[Matias]

Pretty much everyone is stupid

Both the neighborizers and the cop claim will be sorted out in time, goddamn. The trick is to lynch from the unsure pile and leave the guilties for later because theres a large chance that scooby lied about his claim to get a lynch as town

IS is emptyheaded. No scum would protect an outed buddy like that. Get over yourself.

[Matias]

What in the fuck

Why would he fakeclaim as scum

seriously what do you guys not see

It was the worst claim BECAUSE he's town.

[Matias]

I say this on the basis that he said absolutely nothing about you until now. It's obvious it's a fakeclaim and it's obvious that he's just dumb town.

[Matias]

I didnt see that scooby posted about elias.

Fine, im alright with the lynch. Scooby is sure as hell still town though if elias isnt scum.

[Matias]

vote: elias

[Matias]

wow

looks like i'm right

who knew

jesus fuck

[Matias]

scooby, you're a fucking idiot.

[Matias]

Vote: Internet Stranger

This fucking lynch needs to happen

[Matias]

scooby, you got so lucky by the way. You were about to fuck this whole game up if you were wrong, because these are the types of people who think that scum fakes a guilty on town on day 2.

[Matias]

but anyway, back onto the topic of IS sniping people.

IS, quick question: When did Elias become "scum" to you yesterday?

Feel free to take your time, lord fucking knows you're taking your time with my DCL question

which you never fucking answered

but continue taking snipes at people, it's working so far.

[Matias]

Alright, that's what I thought. Just wanted to double check.

Also, what, backpedal? Pretty sure (100%) that I've always thought that scooby was town my friend

[Matias]

In fact, refresh me on what your case is on me. At first, you said that I was sniping and that I was "flying under the radar" but the reasons got significantly more extravagant as you went

You've just gone along with whatever the current argument is and pinned me to it, so at this point, apparently you think I am the cause of everything in this fucking game. So please, recap

[Matias]

I'm not going to thank you. I'm saying you're lucky for not fucking this whole game up.

Trying to analyze your point on Corporal knowing that Elias is a traitor.

[Matias]

Okay so lets assume Corporal is scum of a two man team. He believes Elias is town due to traitor.

I'm failing to see the motivation of him not staying low key and just going along with what he knows: Scooby is most likely fakeclaiming as town. He should have known that a plan like that would have come back to bite him.

Do you really see scum in that, scooby? I'm grasping at the motivations but I'm getting nothing and that's not enough to lynch him on. There are scummier people.

[Matias]

Or perhaps a two man team could be tipped off to an existing traitor and he would have thought that there was a real cop.

Fuck, I don't know.

[Matias]

So, scooby is almost certainly town, for general play, crazy gambit, and Elias pushing his case. The way Elias defended Prae doesn't read 'scumbuddy' to me, refreshing my Prae-town read. His case on Red Day 2 makes me kinda lean Red-town as well, though not as strong.

Still think there's scum between Matias and IS, still not sure which.

DCL's point about Triangle is veeery interesting.

VOTE: Triangle

...wait

why are you voting Triangle over the 50% chance you have between IS and I

[Matias]

Triangle doesn't claim until fool answers this shit.

[Matias]

Triangle? DCL makes a fantastic point.

[Matias]

I always find it amusing when people believe that they have my meta figured out.

I still say that interactions between matias and Triangle are ridiculously scummy. Matias goes from Triangle being his #1 suspect and now he is even trying to actively coach her. Clearly Matias is trying to use me as a distraction so that he can avoid putting votes on Triangle.

Its quite obvious and blatant that Matias is scum whether he is doing this to help a scumbuddy or just to hide behind a townie is undetermined.

Shut the fuck up.

I don't buy her meta justification. I will hammer when everyone is go.

[Matias]

Seriously though, IS, every fucking post links me to something completely random that I was never a part of and it's obvious that no one's buying it. Triangle is scum and so are you.

[Matias]

I wonder how different you would have played had I not voted you. For someone who really thinks that I'm scum, you sure are doing jack fucking shit to get people to vote for me. Restating the same bullshit argument in the context of every interaction in this game is doing nothing. You know it. I know it. You're fucking bullshit.

[Matias]

I find no problem with there being 3 town neighborizers.

[Matias]

Triangle, your attitude has been somewhat sketchy all game about a lot of factors. Your point on meta has looked extremely flip-floppy and your justification for that has been really flimsy and is based on simple semantics. You can chalk it up to "I fail at reading comprehension" and "look it's not flip-floppy if I can tack a reason onto it" as much as you want, but if you make a ton of little mistakes, they add up.

All I can do at this point, too, is look back at the kill on Gertrude. Why Farside wasn't targeted back then only leads me to one thought: It was a threat kill. I see you and Fool doing just that and I'm not ready to lynch any neighborizers. You may protest the parts, but you can't disagree with the whole. Goodbye.

Unvote, Vote: Triangle

.

[Matias]

I'm sure he's joking.

[Matias]

im actually not joking, sorry for any inconvenience, i just checked all my pms and i realized i was a neighborizer as well

:S

Wait what

[Matias]

If triangle AND scooby are truthful, I'm fucking glaring at thefool then.

I agree with DCL.

[Matias]

Agreed.

Scooby, please neighborize someone to prove your role, then.

[Matias]

I'm not liking TheFool.

Case when I'm not busy.

Of course, IS too. But this whole 4 person scum team thing is kind of irking me.

[Matias]

That's part of it but I have more. It'll take time. I'm writing a paper, it will have to be after.

V/LA until saturday

[Matias]

Vote: TheFool

You're missing my point.

I believe that Gertrude was a threat kill. She had two main suspicions: You (bristep at the time) and triangle. Please ISO both gertrude and farside and see which one talked about your slot more or at least feverishly wanted you dead. Had farside went down first, this case would be null and void.

However, I'm still sticking to my guns that you said that scum was between IS and me. And then you went on a tangent and looked for other scum reads. Why? Why not vote for one of us when you have the greater chance of hitting scum, in your eyes, instead of swinging around blindly?

I also now believe there is scum in the neighborizers. Prae neighborized me yesterday and we had a decent talk. I'm not buying the red case, so you're my prime suspect, with IS behind (though I need to reread all of the players because the "IIoA" that IS presented to us doesn't feel like it adds up to scum logic).

[Matias]

Gertrude tried her damnest to get your slot lynched. Are you just not imagining the crusade she had against it?

Second point:

So, scooby is almost certainly town, for general play, crazy gambit, and Elias pushing his case. The way Elias defended Prae doesn't read 'scumbuddy' to me, refreshing my Prae-town read. His case on Red Day 2 makes me kinda lean Red-town as well, though not as strong.

Still think there's scum between Matias and IS, still not sure which.

DCL's point about Triangle is veeery interesting.

VOTE: Triangle

You analyze almost everyone in the game but say that you think there's scum between me and IS. That should immediately tell you, if you were town, to analyze IS and me further and figure out which of that 50% is scum. You just sail right past that, though.

Answer to question: There are four claimed neighborizers now as opposed to three (one of the remaining which is confirmed to me). So I now think, statistically, there is probably 1 scum in that.

[Matias]

Let me know if you need a summary of Gertrude's crusade against you; otherwise, I implore people to take a look for themselves.

[Matias]

Captain, your vote is pretty damn stupid. I strongly suggest that you take it off.

I also may be wrong about The Fool. This could be a scenario where matias the scum switches to the innocent on my list to draw me away from him and DCL. I can see Matias and DCL working together, yet not having much interaction between the two.

Captain, if you're not scum, then you're really screwing the town with that vote. We can't afford a mislynch today. The scum won't openly gang up on it because they are cowards and "you never know", but they will slowly find excuses to vote for Prae without discussion.

I still say Matias and DCL are scum. The third one may actually be Captain instead of The Fool.

Just when I start thinking you aren't scum. this is hilarious.

Are you and fool buddies?

[Matias]

I guess not! Do I need to imagine it?

I will post a compilation of anti-gorckat posts she made tomorrow when I have time.

Yes, and aim for my bigger suspect, while the two of you go at it. We've covered that.

That's not my point. My point is that saying that you think there is scum between the two of us and then completely ignoring that sounds fake. Have you done any analysis between the two of us since IS died?

I don't believe that you believe what you're saying.

There's 7 players left, and probably 2, maybe 3 scum. Statistically, any given group of three players is likely to have scum in it. That doesn't make such a grouping a relevant decision maker.

I'm talking about 4 overall. Scooby is dead now and there's 3 claimed neighborizers. I said that out of 3, it's likely to be all town but I don't see all townies in 4 neighborizers. I went over the likely statistics earlier in the game.

[Matias]

Sorry, Triangle. Not you. Misspoke.

He voted Triangle in the same post which he said that there is scum between us. Triangle is dead now, so I want to know how he feels. He's certainly not doing any analyzing of that.

[Matias]

IS, give it the fuck up, dude. Everything involving me, despite what I've done or said, has been "scummy" but you've proven nothing. You're useless this game if you are town.

[Matias]

Start doing some actual analysis instead of whining.

[Matias]

I'm not sure on any of my reads. I didn't even catch that about Prae.

[Matias]

I'd like those things from Prae as well.

He didn't say much in the QT yesterday.

[Matias]

Once prae posts, depending on what he posts, Ill do it. On the road atm in traffic.

[Matias]

I will also hammer him if it comes close to the deadline. He has about 4 and a half days to post.

[Matias]

Vote: Praetyre

, I have no clue why he didn't comment on his IS floundering.

[Matias]

Hello wang, I'm glad you came here. Do you like to danceHello?

[Matias]

IS, are you saying that there are 4 town neighborizers?

[Matias]

Use your brain.

There's scum within redFF and TheFool.

There's also scum within IS and DCL.

IS, whatever happened with your Fool read?

[Matias]

We need more posts from Red.

Matias, why aren't you voting IS?

Why do I have to vote IS? I believe he's scum out of DCL and him, but I have yet to come to a conclusion about you and red.

[Matias]

hi sorry.

Eh I was really sure prae was scum, Im hesitant to vote because of quickhammers but I don't really see 4 scum neighborizers. Could IS sum up the case on DCL and vice versa?

This isn't a good post.

You're emphasizing regret on the Prae lynch, why?

[Matias]

It's 3 to lynch. DCL, both you and IS have one vote.

[Matias]

It's 3 to lynch. DCL, both you and IS have one vote.

Thank-you captain obvious

Yeah...so why are you talking about quickhammering? That isn't an issue. I'm not voting anyone quite yet.

Red, it's almost as if you're trying to cushion the Prae lynch and make yourself seem more town.

I see Red and IS scum. Any objections? I'd like to go over any evidence before making a decision on this.

[Matias]

Right but no one's putting down a 2nd vote.

The fact that red, fool and I didn't coordinate two votes and a quicklynch further helps me believe that there is scum between you and IS and I think it's IS. In the same vein, I think that there's scum between red and fool and I think it's red between the two.

Fine, would anyone object to me voting IS? Fool, red? I want to hear from both of you.

[Matias]

That makes sense then.

I want to hear from fool and red then.

[Matias]

It's technically possible as well that you and IS are scum, but I highly doubt it all things considered. I'm putting 100% stock that it's one of IS/you and one of red/fool. You've definitely been much more pro-town than IS has.

[Matias]

GG

Setup by design meant scum could very easily engineer a neighborizer 1v1. Can't really see scum losing this game unless one of them gets lynched early and the other neighborizers don't die for a while.

This, not the best setup for a mini normal. Sorry.

[Matias]

Tracker didnt quite help because you could easily engineer a "I neighborized this guy" and keep the charade going.

Rolecop didnt quite help because a setup like this means everyone could claim and still be safe.

Forgive and forget, good game.

[Matias]

I guess I see the opposite side of this. People forget that anyone and anything can be scum at all times unless modconfirmed.

[Matias]

I knew ONE neighborizer was probably scum, but two was a concept I never would have caught on to.