Mini 1321: Anxiety's Alliteration Mafia - Game Over

[Praetyre]

VOTE: lane0168, for being into Barbie.

[Praetyre]

At the moment, I'm more in the DCL camp; his reaction has a sort of panicked quality particular to an individual whose attempts to stay under the radar and plan out the day's machinations have come undone. His general tone and style of language are subtly manipulative; the context in which a discussion is framed by the poster and the way in which that posters language reveals his inner thoughts about his fellows can be just as indicative, even in a limited textual form, as the out and out arguments of said poster. His WIFOMing and OMGUSing don't sit too well with my gut, either. I'd like to hear more from the other lurkers before I pass judgement, though; there's no real "smoking gun" for me yet this early in the day.

Triangle is an interesting case. Her playstyle (is it just me, or am I the only one whose referred to her as a she?) reminds me quite distinctly of Fionnabhair and Kikuchiyo, two players who turned out to be calculating scum in previous games of mine, one Newbie 1176 (my and and I believe her first). Nonetheless, I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt as far as those reactions go, and she seems clear, logical and consistent as far as her own reads go, unlike DCL.

Matias is a null. His playstyle is somewhat new and different to me, and it's one I can see being in the benefit of both town and scum to use based on this limited evaluation. I don't see the argument against him vis-a-vis sheeping Triangle as holding much water; surely the same logic would apply to Bristep and DCL.

I'm leaning town on Bristep, incidentally. Past experience has shown me that it is a bad idea to string someone up based on bloodthirstiness, and this is experience from both sides of the aisle. His reaction seems far more genuine and townish- the sense of a townie who simply wishes to get things moving rather than bog down the town in discussions about his own alignment. If DCL flips scum, I might take a closer look at their interactions, but I've never yet caught scum based on D1 interactions alone, and I'm not optimistic enough to assume this streak will be broken anytime soon.

Farside is grade-A town, with Elias a close second. I'd like to see more from the others, particularily Gertrude, who seems to be adopting a similar wait-and-see policy as myself and IS. UNVOTE: Lane for now, and barring a Shyamalanesque swerve, I'm joining the fencing club.

[Praetyre]

Tomato, tomatoe; it's the best I can do given that a third of the folks around here haven't posted and should push come to shove I'll lay it down on DCL. You might want to ask Elias about where this avenue can go, incidentally.

[Praetyre]

Why do you think Bristep and DCL might have related alignments?

Because he hopped in with that "semi-serious" vote on Triangle shortly after Bristep did. It's not much of a lead, but it's one I'd give a look if Bristep flipped scum nonetheless.

Gertrude's latest posts are looking a tad opportunistic. I'd like to hear her own case on Matias, in particular.

[Praetyre]

What about Gertrudes post was opportunistic?

I must first point out that I was in the midst of formulating a reply to Gertrude post in #121 when you noted that very point, leaving me with a decidedly threadbare post as far as commentary goes. I felt Gertrude's post to be opportunistic because her entire case on Matias up until that point had been halfhearted and nonspecific; #59's by now thoroughly dissected "narrow focus" schtick being a good example. She only seemed to jump in with that little comment after others began pointing the finger at Matias, and the comment didn't go into detail at all about her own view of Matias, Triangle or DCL, only a little passive-aggressive attempt at character assassination.

Her latest posts have repeated this pattern, and she seems to have dropped her case on Matias now that she's seen there isn't mileage in trying to start a wagon on him. Like I noted, a player's thought process can be just as revealing as their actual words, and this sort of hit-and-run tactics doesn't suggest a simple reaction test, but a more calculated attempt to stay under the radar while looking townie by circling secondary wagon. I want to hear Gertrude's case on me and particularily how/if she connects me to other players readwise. Are her cases against players independent of one another, or is there a greater puzzle I'm missing?

[Praetyre]

@ Praetyre in regards to you post. You do realize that gertrude was the first one to comment about Mathis and vote for him.
How in the world can you call that
"I felt Gertrude's post to be opportunistic because her entire case on Matias up until that point had been halfhearted and nonspecific"??????

Her initial vote against Matias was pure RVS; she only switched to him again 50 posts later, and the reasoning offered for said vote was extremely threadbare; if she thought her own case against Matias was stronger than the ones against DCL, Bristep or Triangle, why didn't she offer a more detailed case to rival the discussion then taking place about DCL's motives?

My wording may have been unclear; by "that little comment" I referred to post #121, not #59, which came after Lane's mention of Matias in #72. I never really got the sense Gertrude sincerely believed Matias to be scum, and the main reason I think this is because her entire case on Matias amounts to a single ridiculously out of context canard about numbers and some half-handed baiting. Since she's dropped the case for now, the point is somewhat moot, but I've definitely GMEO her.

[Praetyre]

Those lurkers are nearly half the playerbase; I'm waiting to hear more from the others and I understand IS has made a deliberate policy out of lurking D1. I'd still like to hear a case on me that doesn't boil down to fencesitting, gut, or my read on Gertrude, though given the choice I'd rather do the gallows jig than have a lynch wasted on Triangle.

[Praetyre]

With 2 days to deadline, you vote someone with 0 votes who is definitely not getting lynched?

Matias did note that Scooby's current posting, while town, wasn't really in his best interest; I've seen stranger flashwagon attempts in the past by town. By your own logic, it makes no sense for scum-Elias to do it; I don't see what point you're making here.

Sad that triangle isn't happening, but prae is an infinitely better lynch than temp, so

vote:prae

Oh really? Why is that? What criterion of behaviour are you using to determine who is the better lynch?

[Praetyre]

Very well; I am a 2 Shot Day Neighboriser. I may neighborise a single player per night and gain the ability to QT with them. It was not made clear to me whether this would only be in effect during the day thereafter or any subsequent days, nor whether these QT's would be shared assuming I successfully neighborised two people, but I am operating under the assumption of the latter. I actually do have a "completed" scum game of sorts, one which was to my enormous disappointment swallowed up by that nasty crash. I'm not entirely certain if it is kosher for me to discuss the details, though, and I doubt it'll save me at this point anyway. I bring it up chiefly and foremostly as an item of future interest for both this game's players and future scum, as I put a fair deal of effort into making the QT a learning experience for my junior partner, who shall remain nameless per aforementioned kosher-ambiguity.

1176 was a fairly abortive start for me; this accursed data error has unfortunately also taken 1188 among it's victims. The moderator in that game was izakthegoomba, and I played the same cop role I did there to a much, much more succesful degree. The QTs still survive, and I expect you'll be able to get some more out of the cache. I have grown markedly different in playstyle since that initial game, and am operating under far less considerable pressure as a low-level PR in a mini than as perhaps the most pivotal role in a newbie with far less experience.

Again, I realise this is unlikely to sway things at this point, and I'm sorry if this in any way violates some sort of regulation on out of thread communication, but with my neck on the line and my meta in digital limbo I am left with no other options.

[Praetyre]

EBWOP: It is amusing to note some of the patterns of repetition in my meta; I draw Cop twice in my first two games (I actually PMed Izak to ask whether I had been given the role as a consolation prize for my offing in 1176) and as a neighborizer in a mini I am put under fire for the same reasons and with likely the same results, with Elias defending me on both counts (and, I strongly suspect, he is town here too). Both of the final scumteams in my first two newbie games were all female, and both involved a senior partner with far greater skill replacing a lackluster junior (though that really, really doesn't do justice to the colossal FUBAR that was McQueen's strategy in 1188), which led to a remark about Kikuchiyo very similar to my initial thoughts on Triangle. Kikuchiyo turned out to be scum in 1306, and Triangle was scum in 1312. Food for thought after the crows finish with my dessicated corpse.

[Praetyre]

I do not have much of a read on VOTE: Temphdq at all; I vote him only to avoid a no lynch, and since we're in a 1v1 for all intents and purposes barring a lightspeed wagon on gorcat or scooby.

[Praetyre]

My (succesful) neighborization target is farside22. My neighborization ability is also one-day only, which all but confirms The Fool as town to me. This caveat also adds greater credibility to the idea of two 2-Shot Neighbourizers in general; Neighborizers are fairly lightweight on the PR totem pole and limiting their abilities to this extent makes them wafers on the scale of power balance. There's a very outside chance The Fool is a scum Neighborizer, but I've never seen that role used before, and I especially doubt it's presence in a normal.

Really not liking DCLXVI's jumping the gun on me at the moment; there's no good town reason to lynch me when I've not even stated who my target is, or to assume that there is a 1v1, or to assume in said 1v1 that The Fool is automatically more credible than me. IGMEOY.

[Praetyre]

I'd certainly like to hear some reasoning on that vote.

Speaking of which, I'm not getting redFF's exact reasoning for hopping from having me second only to Triangle in terms of scumminess (#187), thinking I'm an "infinitely better lynch" than temp (thus clearly indicating you were not on my wagon primarily because you wanted to policy lynch me as a lurker) in #257, and listing me as scum again in #314, well after you would have had the opportunity to read what you are now calling my "townish" claim. What about this "reread" of yours gave you a different impression than your initial read? You could hardly have missed it, given it was the literal talk of the town in the last day or so.

Similarly, I want to know why DCL was ready go string me up before I had the chance to claim a target. Really not seeing how town benefits from lynching a claimed PR before he's had such an opportunity, even if it's a relatively low level one. We're not in D1 anymore; people who jump the gun on lynches at this point make me skittish.

[Praetyre]

EBWOP: That first sentence was in response to CC, but could just as easily apply to IS.

[Praetyre]

I'm a deadline dodger, that's why. I am, however, not one to answer a question with a question.

That doesn't tell me much. Why do you think I am scummy? What makes my "scummy" actions more scummy than those of your other suspects? Do you consider my claim less credible than theirs.

[Praetyre]

Prae why have you not voted one of the neighborizers yet? Unless you believe us all to be town?

Like I stated, I find you suspicious and The Fool is all but conftown as far as I'm concerned, but on balance I find DCL a lot scummier, and his explanation for jumping the gun on me before further information could be gotten in the whole day we have here doesn't sit well with me.

Honestly, I'm failing to see any kind of coherent case against me; at least in 1312 Archaebob actually bothered to lay out what he saw as my "scummy" mentality and language by comparing my own posts to his early scum behaviour. Here it just seems to be a lurker policy lynch dressed up in gut. I don't really care whether or not people think I'm scummy because I'm cautious with my vote or they don't like my reasoning or they think I lurk too much; I do care that my and others valuable time is being wasted on this nonsense.

CC swings in and places himself as willing to hammer, after a late day where the case seems to come down to farside's gut on my misread of Gertrude and Scooby's dislike of my fencesitting.

DCL, well...

I find it suspicious that all internet stranger has done is make this one post.

[snip]

Now, scooby, praetyr, and innocent villager are also lurking, however they aren't as suspicious because they haven't been posting anywhere on the site which means their reasons for not posting are more likely do to something in real life.

And then there are the lurkers: I'm not going to give a read on them because there is nothing to read about them.
Scooby
Praetyre
innocentvillager
Internet Stranger
Temphq

Thoughts on TRIANGLE and PRAYTIRE, PLZ PRETTY PKLZ

My position on triangle is already clear, as far as Praetyre goes, fence-sitting usually is rather scummy I would think, but if Elias is correct about that being his meta than I guess that I wouldn't find him suspicious for acting as he normally acts.

Unvote:Scooby

dang meta arguments...I'll consider voting Praetyr later. I need to get some lunch. It comes alphabetically before lynch.

There isn't anyone I really feel strongly about lynching right now, I don't see praetyre as scum, I would lynch him if and only if it came down to the deadline as no-lynch shouldn't be an option

However, I have a better solution, I vote that we policy lynch a lurker, I think that would do town the most good with the way things have gone.

Vote: temphdq

Deadline is in nearly two days, can we get this done?

Then come over to the Tempwagon, I think you will find that there will be more people willing to lynch him then Praetyre.

I would not be opposed too much to Temp lynch except that Prae has offered next to nothing this game and continues to not participate in anyway to this game.

I would argue that temp has offered much less.

I suggest we don't lynch praetyr.
The role is will be very easy to confirm tommorow.

VOTE: Prae

Why prae? don't we want to wait and see if someone got neighborized first?

Seems hasty to be going after prae so quickly.

-vote Captain Coorporal

VOTE: Prae

Why prae? don't we want to wait and see if someone got neighborized first?

Seems hasty to be going after prae so quickly.

-vote Captain Coorporal

Damn straight I am.
Sorry, I thought I posted something which I didn't.
I was neighborized last night, but not by Prae. Which means there are two neighborizers. Two town neighbourizers? That's way too strong a town.
There is scum between the person who neighbourized me and Prae, and Prae is still as scummy as hell from yesterday. Hence my vote.

Well, it seems that prae would be a good lynch then. my bad.

unvote: Captain

vote: praetyre

So... he's sheeping CC, who cites late D1 as evidence. I don't doubt CC is sincere in his sheeping, but how in the hell do you go from pushing all sorts of different lynches and repeatedly stating I'm not scum all through the end of the day to viewing me as scummy based entirely off said last case which he by his own admission didn't agree with?

As for Internet Stranger, he of all people should know the difference between a lurker and overcautious scum; he might not be an active poster, but I'd certainly like to hear his justification for joining my wagon, and his thoughts on this whole neighborization business.

[Praetyre]

So, am I the only one who finds it remarkably odd how DCL has completely avoided my question about why he went from viewing me as not-scum all through the end of Day 1 to sheeping CC's read of me, which itself sheeped the suspicions on me late D1? I didn't bring this up earlier because frankly, Triangle's post just screamed of the same style she in 1312, Kikuchiyo in 1306 and Fionnabhair in Newbie 1188 used, all of whom were scum, and I didn't expect we'd get a lynch this early in D2; the fact we nearly did has definitely put Red higher on my suspicion list. Scooby is starting to get on my nerves, and I'm not sure where Elias is going with the whole Matias suspicion angle. Still, with DCL getting his computer back, we should have some answers; I'll certainly be waiting. Also want to hear more from IS; is it in his meta to lurk throughout D2 as well?

[Praetyre]

I'm not seeing much of a case for IS. Why is his flip flopping on DCL any worse than DCL's or Triangle's flip flopping on me? Why is his lurkiness somehow a mark against him despite his meta, and yet the same doesn't hold true for me? What makes scooby scum as opposed to an impulsive townie? What makes red and his claim more townie than TheFool or mine's? I'd like to hear more from The Fool; he's been quieter than even me and IS as far as active game commentary goes. My gut says IS and Matias is a town on town and I'm honestly beginning to wonder if the Triangle-DCL feud has been a particularily successful attempt at distancing.

[Praetyre]

Fakeclaiming a PR as scum makes me want to lynch you as a player. Fakeclaiming a PR as town makes me want to lynch you as a person. Scooby's play has been about as Cop as mine has been Lyncher, and without some seriously good explanation on his part of his play and why he chose Elias as his target (as I have done so in the past as Cop), I'm not going to jump on the Elias wagon purely on his say-so.

[Praetyre]

And what if Scooby is actually a VT? Then we lose two townies and will probably be down to LYLO, assuming one kill a night and a 3 man scumteam.

[Praetyre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXuCeZyPfmM

[Praetyre]

I will note (and Matias should be able to corroborate this) that I also jumped to the conclusion that the Mafia did not know the Traitor's identity; my memory was going off MBF's flash rather than the wiki in my case. I am very surprised to see Elias flip scum, but the sheer number of possible variations on the role DCL has noted makes me think interaction analysis will be scarcely more fruitful in catching scum than setup speculation was yesterday, much as redFF still rankles my gut. I am aware that such analysis would place me as a high suspect given Elias' defense of me, but I am willing to jump into the same hole Scooby should be launching himself into if my meta reference is not a true and accurate comparison of the "case" against me in this game and the case that resulted in my mislynch as a neighborizer in 1306.

For the record, I think IS, Matias and Scooby are all town, with TheFool and CC as pretty firm nulls and Triangle, DCL, and redFF in ascending order of scum suspects. I'm going to take a closer look at red's ISO and see if I can put together a coherent case, and until then, consider this a FoS. I'll also take a look at my null reads; TheFool in particular has been as mercurial as his namesake; hopefully he starts contributing more actively today so that I can get a firm read on him.

[Praetyre]

RL issues have been keeping me away from the net in general lately; I'll have a post up within the next 6 hours (my next 3 are taken up by a RL social engagement).

[Praetyre]

I'll admit, IS has been pinging my scumdar with his recent inactivity; however, I'm hardly one to talk on that front, and there's nothing in his behaviour that really says outright scum rather than uncooperative town to me. Matias is firmly in the town camp for me; I'd like to know what he thinks sets IS out as definitively scum, though; I'll admit I've not been very thorough in my reading of his posts. CC is ambiguous as usual; I'd like to hear his case on me independent from IS expounded. Is it process of elimination, or is he doing a quadruple lean-on with his read on me from D2? I'd also like to know why TheFool (still a null) considers me town, and why he thinks today will lead us to LYLO? That only makes sense with a 3 man scum team, and that makes little sense in a 13-man mini; if he has his reasons for believing this to be the case, I'd like to hear them; they'd certainly alter the way I'm currently handling connection analysis and team building. That leaves redFF and DCL still high on my suspect list, and I'll be taking a full look into red's record tomorrow. Until then, though, I'll be holding my vote in check; if we really are in LYLO, caution is of the essence until we can get good strong cases hammered out. Look forward to participating more actively in future.

[Praetyre]

Truth be told, I have no one but myself to blame for this predicament, and in hindsight should have requested replacement as soon as my RL issues began flaring up. I have looked through red's ISO and still haven't managed to pin down any smoking guns from the limited analysis I can do under this state; in general, he seems to be leaving his options constantly open without a firm commitment or rationale for his actions; a charge I am well aware can be brought against me but which I would plead innocence on meta and playstyle, of which I know little to nothing of red's across alignments. I am fully aware that at this stage of the day I am unlikely to be spared a lynch, and I apologize, both to my fellow townies and to all the playerbase, for any harm I may have caused by my inaction. I hope my flip will be of informational service, and in the unlikely event we get a last minute wagon out, I'd like to throw out my VOTE: redff