Mini Normal 1357: Game over.

[KageLord]

VOTE: Robbnva[/b]

Haven't seen this dude around since one of my first games. Suspicious that he reappears now...

[KageLord]

vote]Robbnva[/b]

lol fail.

VOTE: Robbnva

[KageLord]

vote]Robbnva[/b]

lol fail.

VOTE: Robbnva

What's the matter? Don't like wagons?

Nah. "Never be on a wagon", I always say.

lol yeah I came back just to torment you....

Seriously, have we played together before?

ha, I just checked and we did. that game was an epic fail for me cause it was my first game on site and the mod had a glaring error in my role pm (had my name as John O'Connor instead of John Connor from terminator) , this error was getting me lynched so I thought i would be cool and copy/paste my entire role PM.

needless to say that did not end well

lol that might have been my 3rd ever mafia game. Didn't even know having my power was called JoAT.

Yo!

Dis guy is a PR or scum.

[KageLord]

"Gunning for his [KageLord] head" is quite an exxageration. Early pressure is good for just this reason, rblinkerscum is caught inbetween trying to decide whether people are still being random or being serious about his scumbuddy. So he waffles. Hard enough to make a Belgium proud.

KageLord's stance of "never be on a wagon" is ridiculously scummy, trying to stay away from blame/anything that can define you.
The whole "ABR is PR or scum" makes zero sense from a town mindset.

lololololol you have no sense of humor. Please realize that I have not said one serious thing before this post. I go in deep with RVS ridiculousness.

That being said, considering I'm already L-1, I can almost guarantee there is at least one scum on my wagon. So that should be good for later in the game.

[KageLord]

Looking at the wagoners, my guess is that either xvart or Konowa (or both) is scum. I pick them out because, in my experience, even slightly knowledgable scum don't try to jump on an early wagon with no reason given. From what I've seen, they are more likely to try to find some reason, no matter how much of a stretch.

That's why I don't really suspect umoms. And Drchrist's vote was RVS, so no read there.

[KageLord]

Konowa – I agree with you that the ‘ABR is PR or scum’ is scummy, but the ‘never been on a wagon’ seems a lot more jokey

But like I said, I didn’t know whether they were being serious or not, because if they were it was a bit early to be up for a Kagelord lynch when they giving very little reason, and now you push Kagelord to L-1 it there’s little reason behind it. If you’s are serious about his lynch I wanted to know the reasons behind it before actually lynching him.

Like I said they might not be being serious then this is irrelevant, but I don’t know if they are.

lol, as I say above, both of those statements were jokes. "Never be on a wagon" is a ridiculous way to play the game (as town or scum). From a scum standpoint, when someone notices that they're not on any wagons, they will immediately be super-suspicious. But saying it outright from the beginning of the game (if your actual plan is to not be on wagons) is suicide.

The "ABR is PR or scum" is just as ridiculous considering he said nothing but "Yo!". There is no way to even fake that being a serious read. If someone took this seriously... you may want to prepare for the end of the world this year.

PEDIT: About rblinker's 23, I think it's too early to tell. If he's scum, I know I'm not his buddy so the only motive would be to get townpoints when I flip town and then he can look serious as he goes after xvart. If he's town, it makes sense that he would strongly question this wagon, as it's ridiculous.

[KageLord]

Just realized I haven't changed my vote from RVS yet.

VOTE: xvart for reason stated here

[KageLord]

Xvart, just quickly replying to your last post. I did agree about the 'he's PR or scum' did come off scummy, but the reason I wanted you to elaborate was because I thought that alone wasn't enough to justify a lynch.

So you found it scummy but not scummy enough to vote compared to your vote on Albert for his avatar and not scummy compared to your unvote voting leaving you voting nobody for no reasons...

This might be a better lynch now, as this is scummy independent of KageLord's alignment. And the spinning in circles is highly indicative of scum motivated behavior. I'll be back later tonight.

So you're saying that he should have put me at L-1 for a joke that he found slightly scummy instead? Slightly scummy statement =/= quicklynch

[KageLord]

@Mod and all: I will be V/LA from Friday afternoon until Monday.

Same. Chess tournament.

[KageLord]

The bandwagon on him early in the game, is where i get suspicions of scum, even though konowa and xvart have said that it was just putting out early pressure

No; I didn't say that and I wasn't voting KageLord for pressure. I was voting him because I think he is scum. I said I had a tenuous relationship with Albert and through out the connection as "pressure" so to speak.

This game is moving at a snails pace... Lets get this rblinker lynch in the books.

So do you think I am scum (note: not scummy) because you think I'm lying about my early statements being jokes or because making those jokes is somehow scum behavior?

Attempt to quicklynch when not everyone has provided content noted.

[KageLord]

Scum on the Rblinker wagon. Just saying.

Drchrist, Konowa, xvart, one or two of you are scum.

Congratulations. You just named all the people on the rblinker wagon; so your assessment of there being scum on the wagon is completely and utterly worthless; which makes the sum total of your contribution this game... completely and utterly worthless. Why is there scum on this wagon? Do you think rblinker is town? Why or why not?

Those 2 quotes do say the same thing. Doesn't mean that thing is worthless.

Interesting note is that 2 of those 3 (xvart and Konowa, in that order) were my suspects from my wagon.

So do you think I am scum (note: not scummy) because you think I'm lying about my early statements being jokes or because making those jokes is somehow scum behavior?

I think you are scum because only scum would say, even as a joke, that someone is either scum or a PR. Scum are more likely to even joke about someone being a PR because town do not want people identified as PRs even if it is under the guise of a joke. Scum don't have to worry about calling someone a PR because scum have control of the night kill and can do what best serves their interests.

lol since scum know that I'm town and we are in D1 of a normal, they would know that the only way I could know one of those things about ABR is if we were masons/neighbors. However, if that was the case, there is no way that I would reveal it like that (for no gain). So again, all that can be taken from that joke is that it is a joke. If ABR is town and scum think that's serious, they may hit a VT that's not participating too much at this point (which is good for us, as town).

Attempt to quicklynch when not everyone has provided content noted.

What does this even mean? The game has been open nearly a week. There is no quick lynch and even so everyone has had ample time to participate.

Can you explain to me why you think rblinker is town? Especially in light of your previous fence sitting post on his alignment.

We were on page 3. That is quick. Especially so considering the people that still had to post at that time. Drchrist had just said he would make an exciting post. Umoms had been prodded (after doing nothing since my wagon lost steam). VisceraEyes had one post. Town thinking is to wait for them to provide content after being prodded (or prod dodge and still do nothing, becoming suspicious) or wait for them to be replaced. It's scum that would rather let the day end without hearing from them.

A quicklynch can be on scum. It's obviously less common, but the prob is that it still stops the above from having to do anything. Wait for them to post content and then try to finish the lynch on who you think is scum. That being said, I am leaning town on rblinker right now mostly because you and Konowa are both on his wagon and you are the 2 that I highlighted as the most suspicious from my wagon (with you being the clear favorite by now).

PEDIT: About rblinker's 23, I think it's too early to tell. If he's scum, I know I'm not his buddy so the only motive would be to get townpoints when I flip town and then he can look serious as he goes after xvart. If he's town, it makes sense that he would strongly question this wagon, as it's ridiculous.

I just reread this post and this paragraph just reeks of someone having more information than the rest of us.

How so?

_________________________________________

FYI - KL is at L-1

maybe explain what you saw in that post you linked that makes you think they are connected?

Wish you hadn't said this. It would have been funny to watch someone hammer without a claim.

Btw, I somehow missed this post before my V/LA. Does this seem scummy as hell to anyone else? If I wasn't as confident as I am about xvart being the smarter scum, I would be all over this wagon.

Then again... after reading this again in preview, it seems like something too stupid for scum to say. VI or SI? Thoughts?

[KageLord]

Post coming later. xvart or Konowa scum. Maybe blinker, will need to read him in ISO.

[KageLord]

hmm, that is an interesting observation actually...

time to - reread

unvote

lol that observation was made twice already at least...

[KageLord]

Those 2 quotes do say the same thing. Doesn't mean that thing is worthless.

It does when you pay attention to the context of people asking Albert who on the wagon is scum. To sum it up: Albert says there is scum on the rblinker wagon with no other information. People question this assessment and ask

who

on the rblinker wagon is scum. Albert names all the people on the wagon and says the scum is in that group. Now with a straight face please explain to me how that is helpful, contributing, or progressing the game towards actually finding scum.

I did not realize that the second post was in response to a question. So the quotes are helping a little (at least we have a group of 3 to focus on according to him as opposed to nothing from other slots), but I agree that it is not to a degree that we should be happy with.

Interesting note is that 2 of those 3 (xvart and Konowa, in that order) were my suspects from my wagon.

If Konowa and I are scum together we really have a pretty bad strategy by both piling on the same wagons early game; unless you think that is something scum would prefer to do.

Sorry if that was hard to understand. I meant that you two were my suspects individually, not as a team together. I can have a suspect that I later figure to be town (in this case, that would mean the other one is veryprobscum to me). What I was pointing out increased my suspicion that 1 of the 2 of you are scum (both is still a possibility, but not very likely).

lol since scum know that I'm town and we are in D1 of a normal, they would know that the only way I could know one of those things about ABR is if we were masons/neighbors. However, if that was the case, there is no way that I would reveal it like that (for no gain). So again, all that can be taken from that joke is that it is a joke. If ABR is town and scum think that's serious, they may hit a VT that's not participating too much at this point (which is good for us, as town).

You missed my entire point of town don't joke about people being PRs under any context. Town don't haphazadly paint targets on the backs of others, even under the context of a joke.

It's only painting a target if scum take me seriously. Which, again, they have no reason to do. I can tell scum they should kill you tonight. I can pretend I think you're a PR. Does that mean they'll do it? I doubt it (mostly because I think you're scum, but I would doubt it anyway).

We were on page 3. That is quick. Especially so considering the people that still had to post at that time. Drchrist had just said he would make an exciting post. Umoms had been prodded (after doing nothing since my wagon lost steam). VisceraEyes had one post. Town thinking is to wait for them to provide content after being prodded (or prod dodge and still do nothing, becoming suspicious) or wait for them to be replaced. It's scum that would rather let the day end without hearing from them.

Not my problem that people are not posting; whenever they get back I hope they are going to join me on rblinker wagon; in fact that is what I am trying to make happen. rblinker is a good lynch and his behavior from the start of the game is more indicative of scum and I'm not going to stop pressing it just because some people need some prods to post.

See, if we had agreed and lynched rblinker when you called for it, we wouldn't have the pleasure of knowing things like "VE isn't very trustworthy. He probably isn't someone we want in lylo." I'm not saying that you should have given up on lynching rblinker. I'm saying your thought process as town should have been to wait and get as much info about the other slots as possible before pushing hard for the lynch.

I am leaning town on rblinker right now mostly because you and Konowa are both on his wagon and you are the 2 that I highlighted as the most suspicious from my wagon (with you being the clear favorite by now).

I am the clear favorite by now? What does that mean? I know you think I was scum because I gave a justification for an early game vote; but what about my behavior made me the clear favorite?

The main thing was probably your response to people poking at you compared to Konowa's. Konowa seems rather calm and hasn't done anything to ping the scumdar since the initial attention (maybe that's just good scum play/lurking by him but we'll see about that later). On the other hand, the last time I saw you play as town you seemed much more calm and composed than now. Plus the pushing for quicklynch(es) rubbed me the wrong way.

KL's reasoning as to why he thinks rblinker is town seems very OMGUSy. I do not know what to tell about his alignment from this though.

rblinker is scum independent of KageLord's alignment. KageLord's alignment as scum is tied directly into rblinker's scum alignment. Actually, at this point I'm getting to the point where I would be comfortable lynching either of them without the other flip because KageLord has not been able to articulate to my satisfaction that he has a legitimate case on his

clear

scum read (me) and therefore his town read of rblinker is invalid (since it is apparently based on yours and my alignment).

Newsflash: you haven't been able to articulate to my satisfaction that you have a legitimate case on me either. That's usually how it goes for a D1 scum read unless the townie knows they did something really wrong.

Will vote rblinker before deadline, if necessary. If someone else says they would be willing to deadline lynch rblinker too, he should claim by Monday morning.

[KageLord]

Aaaaand blinker needed to be replaced since yesterday (prodded on Friday evening, had until Saturday evening to post). Claim from him would be lovely but seems unlikely. I suggest we just hold the hammer until tonight to see if he reappears or is quickly replaced. I'm willing to hammer tonight.

[KageLord]

Xvart has been prodded. I will be heading out for now and give a vote count later today. VE and Rblinker have posted, so I don't think they should be replaced, but I'll look into it with [second opinions].

Ah. I missed blinker's post. >>

Request Deadline Extension

[KageLord]

well that's a stupid kill considering I was just about to lynch the fuck out of him

vote: drchrist

Kagelord, Konowa, Robbnva, myself, and xvart are all confirmed town. So it's either this or VE.

this is so fucking stupid anyway.

why is kagelord on the list and not drchrist? drchrist was on the scumlynch and KL wasn't.

Not sure why, but maybe because of the relational tells? Meaning blinker was obvbuddying me (which would be really stupid if we were both scum) and I didn't bus the hell out of him (which I would do if I were scum). Also Natalie puts ABR (conf town), me, and VE as her quick scumreads and I don't think she's the quickbussing type.

Honestly, looking at Natalie's play, I would guess Konowa-scum and VE as just lurker-town. The thing that makes me hesitant on Konowa is the quick switch to blinker after it looked like my lynch might not happen. Since it is a probable 2 scum setup, idk if Konowa-scum would be so quick on the bus either.

Pacman's 181 gives me a good town feeling. Only thing I don't like about him so far is the hammer before claim.

So looking back at the remaining players, all of us were either on Natalie's lynch or were her scumreads. The question then is whether it is more likely she wanted to bus someone or someone bussed her. If she was gonna bus, it's VE (last on her scumreads list and the reason was just lurking, plus I obv know I'm town and ABR was town). If someone bussed her (which I think more likely), my suspects in order would be: xvart, Pacman, Drchrist. I was going to put Konowa at the head of this list because his initial vote on blinker made it look like he wanted an out from the wagon, but reading over the followup on blinker (and knowing blinker is scum) makes Konowa just look soooooo town. Drchrist has just picked up a lot of towncred for me over the course of the game (but one of his towncred actions, the deadline extension, can be scum-motivated now that we know Natalie was scum). And no, I'm not going back on the above about Pacman, it's just PoE with a lot of town-looking people.

If VE doesn't do anything today and is not replaced, I'm down with a lurker lynch.

[KageLord]

Your votes on evilpacman are not doing any good for a town agenda.

KageLord's most recent post screams scum to me because he is answering a question directed at someone else before the other person gets the opportunity; and I think he is only doing this because he wants to get out in front of the rblinker connection and had to get it out early about the "obv buddying" and WIFOM "that would be really stupid if we both were scum".

First of all, I didn't have to get out in front of the connection as the people that posted weren't looking for my head. Second, it is a perfectly town move to not want to be dragged down by the scum that was buddying you. Third, WIFOMy maybe, but true. And again, look over my scum meta to see that I bus scumbuddies that get themselves in trouble.

Based on the fact that rblinker got busted for fence sitting around the early scum reads on KageLord I'm guessing he wasn't really playing the long game here; which is further proved by the fact that he disappeared so he really wasn't going for a team strategy other than lurk and hide, strategically replace out.

The final nail in the scum coffin is the fact that he really just talked about how everyone could be scum, made no definitive decision about who he was likely to vote for, and then said he was down with a lurker lynch.

VOTE: KageLord

1. "Talked about how everyone could be scum": Did you read the post? I actually said the opposite. I said that I picked my list based on POE because most people look town (and indeed most are).

2. "Made no definitive decision who he was likely to vote for": Again, did you read it? I actually give a list of the 3 people I am likely to vote for and give you the order that I would vote for them in. The only reason that post didn't contain a vote is because the day just started, lynches can happen quick with so few people, and I want to hear from VE before voting.

3. "Down with a lurker lynch": First of all, there is a precondition to that, which you kindly left out of your post (aka misrep). Also, are you saying that you do not want to lynch lurker VE?

Robbnva, you obviously don't understand my reasoning, and since you're trying to tell me that drchrist is confirmed town (LOL) I'm not gonna bother with you right now, I'm confirmed town whether you realize it or not, as is my list.

Can you give us reasons why on this?

Except maybe KL, I'll trust xvart on this one, especially since he's (KL)

trying so hard to buddy me

.

... Pretty sure you didn't read my post at all. If you had, you would realize that you are the person I put as second most likely to be scum (after xvart).

drchrist is still my vote though, I mean look at the reasoning in in 207, it assumes I'm scum because I lynched her when she could have been a PR except she turned out to be scum, so those two things are mutually exclusive. This isn't a hindsight is 20/20 fallacy, let me explain farther. Drchrist's reasoning is that I'm scum because that hammer was scummy. What if she was a PR? But that doesn't make any sense because if I'm scum then I knew she was scum, and you're not accusing me of bussing, you're accusing me of a bad lynch.
Did I take a risk? Hell yeah I took a risk. I also lynched scum so stop trying to fake indignation, please.

... I am very tempted to smack this down too, but I'll let Drchrist give it a shot.

PEDIT: Well, that wasn't exactly the answer I was hoping for from a town Dc, but it's close enough. Point is that good town wouldn't take that risk for no reason. Assuming good play, more likely explanation would be a scum bus since you knew she wouldn't flip town PR, which would cause us to become more suspicious of you. Only reason I'm not sold on that train of thought is I'm not assuming good play.

[KageLord]

Quick look at who we have left:

2. Drchrist - Looking pretty town
3. Kagelord - So town it hurts
4. Konowa - Obvtown
6. Robbnva - Almost obvtown (still very town)
7. EvilPacman18 - Hm... we can wait and see what he has
8. VisceraEyes - Who? Probtown only cuz of Natalie's scumread on him
9. xvart - Probscum, mostly PoE

[KageLord]

First, no one better hammer before VE does something today or gets replaced.

Second, can someone other than xvart explain the case on me?

Third, for the record, do the people voting me think that Natalie intended to bus me?

First of all, I didn't have to get out in front of the connection as the people that posted weren't looking for my head.

Second, it is a perfectly town move to not want to be dragged down by the scum that was buddying you.

Third, WIFOMy maybe, but true. And again, look over my scum meta to see that I bus scumbuddies that get themselves in trouble.

I am especially disinterested in self meta in this game because of the small game size. Bussing a scum buddy on D1 when you have two total scum members is worlds different than busing a scumbuddy on D1 when you have three total members. And the biggest point I want to make here is my italicized portion above. Scum have more motivation to not want to be associated with a scum member. Town would not (compared to scum) feel obligated to distance from a flipped scum member; especially since in the previous sentence you said nobody was looking for your head; but that is probably because I had not posted yet.

Bringing up the small game size is a fair point. I personally would bus anyway in the case of blinker (once he flipped I would almost be a guaranteed lynch within the next 2 days if I didn't bus him as scum), but you have no way of knowing that's what I'd do so that's enough of that point. Sure, scum have more motivation, but you admit that town has motivation too. So it's all a matter of how vehemently you think I distanced, I guess.

1. "Talked about how everyone could be scum": Did you read the post? I actually said the opposite. I said that I picked my list based on POE because most people look town (and indeed most are).

I suppose I should have said you gave no definitive reads and fence sat on everyone. For example:

Konowa:

I would guess Konowa-scum and VE as just lurker-town.

The thing that makes me hesitant on Konowa is the quick switch to blinker after it looked like my lynch might not happen. Since it is a probable 2 scum setup, idk if Konowa-scum would be so quick on the bus either.

I was going to put Konowa at the head of this list because his initial vote on blinker made it look like he wanted an out from the wagon, but reading over the followup on blinker (and knowing blinker is scum) makes Konowa just look soooooo town.

... "look sooooo town". I wonder what my read on Konowa was there. I guess it's pretty hard to decipher what "soooo town" means. It makes it even harder that I called him obvtown (a phrase I almost never use) in the next post. I'll probably be trying to lynch him next, huh? [/sarcasm]

Btw, "would" is the keyword in that first quote. If you took the whole sentence, you would see that that

would

be my read going solely on Natalie's play. Obviously that is not all that my reads are based on (except in the case of VE because he has nothing else yet).

evilpacman:

Pacman's 181 gives me a good town feeling.

Only thing I don't like about him so far is the hammer before claim.

If someone bussed her (which I think more likely), my suspects in order would be: xvart, Pacman, Drchrist.

And no, I'm not going back on the above about Pacman, it's just PoE with a lot of town-looking people.

lol I see that splitting up my sentences so it looks like I'm saying the things at different points is a thing with you.

Like I said, the hammer is the only thing I didn't like at that point. Prob is everyone but xvart looks townier than pacman (though I am intrigued now by this professed proof pacman has). Don't think it'll matter though, considering I'm about 90% sure on xvart-scum by now.

DrChrist:

Drchrist has just picked up a lot of towncred for me over the course of the game (but one of his towncred actions, the deadline extension, can be scum-motivated now that we know Natalie was scum).

You have danced all around those three people. As scum you are really in a tough position right now; basically you just want to get through today with a mislynch but you can't be calling too many people town so early because tomorrow you'll have to go back on those reads, hence the utter indecision in your reads and waffling back and forth.

Except for the part where I clearly listed the order of my top 3 suspects' scumminess (and in the next post showed my townreads of practically everyone but you). In fact, I have shown more reads about other players than anyone in this game (a move that scum don't make unless they are bad). Who have you shown reads on? You are the one that has other people to move onto if I am mislynched today. By your own point, if I was scum, I would be committing suicide by giving townreads on everyone but you. If I was scum and got you mislynched today, I would almost 100% be the guaranteed lynch for tomorrow (which is actually a deal I would gladly take at this point because of my confidence in you being scum).

3. "Down with a lurker lynch": First of all, there is a precondition to that, which you kindly left out of your post (aka misrep). Also, are you saying that you do not want to lynch lurker VE?

I have no interest in lynching VE; heck, I don't even need VEs vote to get you lynched.

1. You skipped #2.
2. You make no defense to the fact that you misrepped me there.

3.

See, this is not a very town approach. Town would stop and think "ok, if we quicklynch this guy today and he flips town, we have lost 2 more townies (including NK) and now we still have a lurker that we can't read". Scum, on the other hand, thinks "hey, if I can get this guy mislynched quickly, I can leave the lurker completely there and they will surely want to get rid of him before lylo". The town option, which I have been trying to do, is wait on any action until we get something from VE's slot and then trying to lynch the probscum (you) like hell. See, on that 10% offchance that you are just playing bad town, we at least have some info on VE's slot going into tomorrow.

Quick look at who we have left:

2. Drchrist - Looking pretty town
3. Kagelord - So town it hurts
4. Konowa - Obvtown
6. Robbnva - Almost obvtown (still very town)
7. EvilPacman18 - Hm... we can wait and see what he has
8. VisceraEyes - Who? Probtown only cuz of Natalie's scumread on him
9. xvart - Probscum, mostly PoE

lulz. And you still aren't voting for me despite your pomp and circumstance about a flash wagon accidentally lynching someone with so few people in the game. You've clearly got me as your number one suspect; nobody else is voting me so what is your hesitation voting me?

The wagon on me is kind of making my point. You put the first vote on me not too long ago and I'm already L-1 without a post from Konowa (the most obvtown player we have right now) or VE. See, as much as I think you're scum, I don't want that happening to you yet. I would rather wait for those 2 (mostly VE) and then start a wagon on you.

Still, the most convincing argument right now is the fact that rblinker was lynched because of his reaction to you being called scum. That situation is specifically unique to you being scum; because it is far more likely to occur from a scum member

about his buddy

(being you in this case) than a scum member about a town person. rblinker's behavior was scummy independent of everything else in the game; but it was correlated to your alignment making you much more likely to be scum upon his confirmed scum flip.

Ok... I can't really argue against this since I don't know why rblinker did it. Probably to connect himself to a townie in case he did go down and/or to avoid being on the first mislynch (and then have a reason to push Konowa). In fact, thinking about this more, a similar scenario (but the reverse) happened in the game I linked earlier, which just finished. Skim D1 and early D2. I was scum in that game and Pine was town. He defended the hell out of me. Only problem was that when I flipped scum, this made him probably one of the easiest mislynches in mafia. Now, I could see scum using that idea to defend town which would accomplish one of two things: either the scum gets towncred after the mislynch or the townie gets scumcred after the correct lynch. This is all WIFOM of course, but it is what I think went down here.

Out of curiosity, are there any of my reads that you agree with (i.e. who do you think is very town)?

[KageLord]

EBWOP: Konowa did post today, but it was before things got more interesting. I'm sure he'll have something to say about the goings on since his last post.

[KageLord]

Third, for the record, do the people voting me think that Natalie intended to bus me?

In order to bus you that would mean you are scum. Slip?

The people voting me think I'm scum (or at least I think they think that), so since Natalie was scum, a later vote for me would be a bus in their eyes.

Ok... I can't really argue against this since I don't know why rblinker did it. Probably to connect himself to a townie in case he did go down and/or to avoid being on the first mislynch (and then have a reason to push Konowa).

I don't really see rblinker as the kind of scum that plays the long game, especially in his first couple of posts; further illustrated by his total shut down, lurking, and strategic replace out.

Do you have any real reason to think he doesn't play the 2-day game? Maybe he thought I would be lynched anyway. Maybe he's just bad once he gets pegged as scum. Maybe he was only thinking a day ahead ("if I die today, KL dies tomorrow"). Maybe his scumbuddy gave him a tip before D1 started. I don't know.

EBWOP: Konowa did post today, but it was before things got more interesting. I'm sure he'll have something to say about the goings on since his last post.

Konowa said yesterday that rblinker flipping scum makes you more likely scum. I'm hopeful he will come in and hammer.

I'll respond to the rest later; I just wanted to say these things before the day got started.

Am I really the only one that has a problem with this attitude toward VE?

I'm on my phone now but I just wanted to respond to this

Third, for the record, do the people voting me think that Natalie intended to bus me?

How did she bus you when she voted rampage?

All she did was say you were one of her scum reads. That's not bussing

I know. My question is more about whether you think she would have moved on to me. I know it's hard to answer what she would have done, but my thinking for VE being more likely town is that I don't think Natalie would have put her scumbuddy in her list of 3 scum reads. Her play seems pretty straightforward. Plus putting your only buddy as your second scum read (back to talking about me here) means you're almost forced to bus if the ABR lynch doesn't work out. Maybe it's just easier for me to think this since I know that at least 2/3 (ABR and me) of her list are town and most other townies only know 1/3 for sure.

[KageLord]

Alright, right now with Pacman off the table xvarts posts 227 and 230 are making me look seriously at Kage. When I look back at K's posts relating to blinker/natalie pre-lynch, it looks to me like he's simply trying to dance around giving a definitive read, for example:

PEDIT: About rblinker's 23, I think it's too early to tell. If he's scum, I know I'm not his buddy so the only motive would be to get townpoints when I flip town and then he can look serious as he goes after xvart. If he's town, it makes sense that he would strongly question this wagon, as it's ridiculous.

Post coming later. xvart or Konowa scum. Maybe blinker, will need to read him in ISO.

I just see Kage's Day 1 play with regards to blinker as trying to at least look a little bit distanced from him going into day 2. Right now, Kage is looking like the best lynch option IMO. I will be willing to hammer him, but only once we: A. Get VE back or replaced and B. Give him a chance to claim.

This is fair enough. And it's posts like this that I was talking about when I said Drchrist has been building up towncred for me throughout the game.

[KageLord]

If she was smart she would have moved onto Konowa as he was the counter wagon. Obviously she wasn't smart.

See the prob is she couldn't do that even if she was smart. By saying I looked scummy earlier and then putting me as her second scum read, there is no way she could have moved onto Konowa or xvart (who were most vocal on the early wagon on me) without it looking like a major flip-flop. So essentially putting me there would stop her from going onto the major counterwagon and more likely than not would back her into having to vote me next (unless she goes after VE and then has to switch to me when that lynch doesn't work). It's all speculation and WIFOM but that's just the way I see it, especially since I know I'm not her buddy.

[KageLord]

If she was smart she would have moved onto Konowa as he was the counter wagon. Obviously she wasn't smart.

See the prob is she couldn't do that even if she was smart. By saying I looked scummy earlier and then putting me as her second scum read, there is no way she could have moved onto Konowa or xvart (who were most vocal on the early wagon on me) without it looking like a major flip-flop. So essentially putting me there would stop her from going onto the major counterwagon and more likely than not would back her into having to vote me next (unless she goes after VE and then has to switch to me when that lynch doesn't work). It's all speculation and WIFOM but that's just the way I see it, especially since I know I'm not her buddy.

Sorry for triple post, but also... if you agree that she wasn't very smart, don't you think it's more likely that all her scum reads are town (my theory) than she snuck her buddy into her middle scum read (a sneaky thing for scum to do)?

[KageLord]

Claim: VT

I would appreciate it if you would wait for a Konowa post before hammer though. I'm surprised at the read of Konowa as a prime suspect too. Looking at his relation to blinker alone makes him look really town to me.

Probably my final scumlist (just so I can say I was close at the end): xvart, Robb, Hoopla. Pacman's claim of proof that he's town intrigued me and even if it turns out to be bogus (which I'm 50-50 on), I don't think it's a scum move to claim it. Drchrist just makes too many town-motivated moves for me to believe it's an act. Looking Robb's D1 over in relation to blinker makes it seem possible that he is a buddy that went from soft poking to a soft bus to trying to connect other people to his doomed buddy. I think the reason I had him as town before had a lot to do with his telling people I was L-1 and not taking the easy hammer to me early. It was probably bias making me think that those actions instantly made him town.

[KageLord]

Lol I wonder who will be most surprised when I flip town. I also hope blinker has access to the dead QT so I can ask him about the buddying deal.

[KageLord]

As far as I'm concerned, I can only see the final scum being you, Kage, Robbnva or Drchrist. Kage and you make the most sense based on Natalie's reads post. You also don't see much value in using that post as key information, so I get why you don't understand where I'm coming from. I've been planning to look into each of the four of you in a more traditional way, so you'll get some more analysis soon.

I will say xvart's 227 post on Kage is very solid and given he is a town read, I place stock in it. This is why I'm leaning toward Kage over you right now.

So the scum is among 4 of the other 6 players in the game. Good to know. Especially since it's possible you'll have only one townread tomorrow (if xvart or pacman die tonight).

I don't get why Konowa and me make the most sense though. You say me because Natalie listed me as a scumread and you, for some reason, think she's good enough to not be completely transparent (completely transparent meaning all scumreads are town). I get that. But then why Konowa? Konowa wasn't listed as a scum read. In fact, how Natalie voted for ABR suggests that she thought Konowa was town (she said ABR would try to get Konowa lynched D2). The only other living scum read of Natalie's is... you. Weird how your train of thought also incriminates you. Also weird how Natalie would put her supposed scumbuddy (me) as her second scum read instead of the person she FoSed.

xvart's 227 is so solid that he gave no response to my counterevidence of his main points against me. He said he'd respond later, but hasn't posted since. I hope he gets to do it before I'm lynched.

[KageLord]

Kage
...
Robbnva
...
...
Konowa
Drchrist

At least you've seen the light on Konowa. Now if we can get xvart right up there above me, we're in business. Or at least put him between me and Robb.

[KageLord]

Told ya Natalie didn't put her buddy in her scumreads, didn't I?

Robb is 95% scum,

From the dead QT. rofl dude


Konowa and I were more obv town than the masons. That blinker lynch basically confirmed us as town.

Konowa was. Thought you could have been bussing (considering someone had to be). The thing that made me jump that high was mostly the last NK. Why the hell did he kill Hoopla?

Besides that, it was well played by Drchrist.

Since this was my first game I was going with a simple setup, but tried to have it setup in a way that I find can be fun. I had Masons + Scum have Daytalk, so that they both could communicate at anytime. Sadly, The Mafia qt was underused, and I think Drchrist being away hurt his buddy. Drchrist chose his kills early in the night, and I don't know why he chose those. I especially don't know why he didn't kill Pacman when he could semi-confirm himself already.

Dr can you explain your thoughts? : D

I enjoyed Hoopla's entry post, and her posts afterward but wondered why at the time she didn't analyze the wagon. She said she would have considered that the next day if she wasn't dead.

Robbnva, I generally thought he was pretty obv townie. Was pretty active and all.

Don't remember much about Konowa, or others. (I know he seemed a bit townie but don't remember why)

Pacman and Xvart played well. I liked that they took advantage of the daytalk. Don't know where Umoms went.

Sorry, my thoughts are not deep or anything >_>.

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I did ask MagnaofAllusion lotsa questions anytime I found myself in a new situation. : D So thanks bro. I also borrowed some rules from him, Reck, and someone else. It really helped to look at other's rules and see what you are missing. Anyways, please tell me what you thought of me as a mod, and please comment/critique etc. : D

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I thought Viscera Eyes has been dragging the game down, and replaced him because he viewed when prodded yet didn't say a thing. I replaced him because I would rather have a slot that puts their all in because it was such a small game. Let me know if I handled this wrong.

I thought you did damn well for your first time. I didn't notice you do anything wrong and I agreed with the VE replacement.