Mini 1401 - Game over!

[Huntress]

I'm liking the votes on Kthxbye. I can expand on that if necessary but I think most of it has already been said. Also suspicious of Conman for his rather late "random" vote.

Absta's post 44 gives me the impression that he's trying to slide his unvote by unnoticed.

Vote: kthxbye

[Huntress]

first post from huntress joins the largest bandwagon to blend in. eyes on you Huntress.

I think you'll find I'm not a blender inner. And you weren't the biggest wagon when I posted. Nor are you now (tied with absta on three votes each).


@ absta: It was the impression I got. As to why scum-absta would do it? He might not want people to notice he was slipping off his buddy's wagon before it got too late. I note you were quick to come in and defend Kthxbye. Why did you unvote at that point? Who do you think is scum?

[Huntress]

@ Qwints: Re: post 58. Nope, there's a bit more to it than that (one reading puts

you

as absta's partner), but it's all just speculation at this stage so probably not very useful.

Presenting reads and explaining them means that people either agree with reasons, or disagree with them. Throwing out reads while withholding explanation until later still brings out those reactions when they are explained. Before that point, though, you get a whole host of reactions and the potential for some people to make themselves decently strong townreads in the way that they handle their responses.

...

expand on it. it's necessary unless you don't mind looking scummy

I guess I can risk that; for the reason given in the first part of that quote. Kthxbye's reaction is interesting. Apart from incorrectly accusing me of joining the largest wagon he says nothing about my post and doesn't ask for more details. In post 66 he doesn't mention me when complaining about low posters, although I also only had two posts at the time, and jumps on Conman's wagon. Yet he asks Conman for his reasons in post 69; why not ask for mine? Is he hoping I'll drop him in favour of Conman who I had previously expressed suspicion of?

My original case was the fuss about scumhunting and his going after people who did seem to me to be hunting (post 41, post 43 and post 48).

In addition the first line of 66 is odd. Why did he expect Meph to comment on a question addressed to Conman before Conman had replied to it? He later said it was sarcasm but it still doesn't make sense.

Although I agree with the last sentence of post 77.

Being a bad towny is just as bad as being a bad scum since if you're town, nobody in their right mind would ignore your scumminess.

This gives me a bad vibe. It's as if he knows he's pushing a mislynch and is making a pre-emptive defence.

So your suspicion of me relies on Kthx being scum.

Not entirely; it's too early to rely on connections so that was more of a note for later on. It was more that your response to Slandaar's vote was not what I would have expected to see, and I was wondering why? You've addressed his vote now but that was a rather delayed reaction so still doesn't make me feel good about you.

Why is your first question helpful to you?

I asked it because I wanted to know what you were thinking at the time.

[Huntress]

@Kthx - He was town until he voted qwints. Now he's leaning scum.

How did this change your opinion of Conman?

Huntress is probably scum.

I suppose you're going to explain why sometime?


I'm currently leaning town on Conman as I don't think he can be scum with Kthxbye.

And a whimsical thought: Just wondering if Qwints' vote for NS was a Freudian slip. I'm not sure what it would imply though so it's definitely one to put on the back burner until much later.

[Huntress]

@Huntress

- Firstly, you forgot to answer:
- When would town-absta unvote?
- Why is Kthx scum (pre post #52)?
Both are important.

1) You answered that yourself in post 88, immediately before asking it. It seemed reasonable.
2) I gave that in post 119 (third paragraph).

Not entirely; it's too early to rely on connections so that was more of a note for later on.

So it was based on Kthx being scum.

No. As I have already explained.

Why would town-you post personal notes that only work for you?

I don't post my personal notes. What I post in the thread is for others to read.

It was more that your response to Slandaar's vote was not what I would have expected to see, and I was wondering why? You've addressed his vote now but that was a rather delayed reaction so still doesn't make me feel good about you.

If this was your reason, why didn't you mention it post #52?

I was waiting to see your response to Slandaar's vote before deciding whether or not there was enough for an FOS.

Now how about replying to my question in post 155? And do you have a reason for voting me other than the fact that I've been looking at you?

[Huntress]

After taking the recent posts from everyone into unbias consideration, I still say Conman is the best lynch for Day 1. Some of you make good points, and they are worth looking into imo....Day 2, after scum-Conman is dead and buried and being eaten by worms.

Why aren't the points worth looking into until day two after someone who the majority of players don't seem to think is scum has been lynched? Which points do you think are good?

second and third plus the fourth ones are my scum list, I was agreeing with you

Does that mean you no longer suspect Kthxbye? If so, what made you change your mind? And what was the reason for your earlier vote on Qwints?


I was looking back at the voting earlier today; in particular the shift from Kthxbye's wagon to Conman's. Kthxbye seems to have been doing most of the work on starting a counterwagon himself, trying Gorgon and SiN before settling on Conman, but looking at the votes havingfitz, NS and Slandaar are implicated, being the only ones who voted Conman without having previously voted Kthxbye (although I'm currently thinking Slandaar is town). If Kythxbye flips scum it's a good bet one or two of these will too.

If Conman flips scum I'd be looking at Mephisto and absta first.

[Huntress]

Also, explain this counter wagon you speak of. What was the first wagon you believe I tried stearing people away from?

The first wagon was the wagon on you.

I don't agree with a policy lynch on Conman. Maybe a compromise lynch if we get close to deadline but not yet. Just because you're bored isn't a good reason to cut the day short while there's still more we can get out of it. I've still got a few more people to look at and I'm sure others have too.

[Huntress]

Read Kthx's quote in context, she has taken what kthx said completely out of context to paint him scummy (and to defend Conman)

I did take it in context, in that he followed it up by confirming his vote on Conman, although this may be coloured by the fact that what he was calling a scumslip is something that I've found town are just as likely to say as scum.

And SiN has ninja'd me on both points I was about to make re: Slandaar's comments on Conman. The point about being worried about panic bussing is a good one. I may be wrong but I'm thinking Conman is quite young and that this is why his posts are the way they are. I had a look at the site he mentioned and the latest game I could find there was a failed game a few months ago which doesn't back up his claim that roles are not randomly assigned. Although the fact that the mod of that game had to confirm the randomness twice implies that it is not always the case there.

[Huntress]

Your suspicion of me (the one you posted in #52) only works if i'm Kthx's partner, and this case is what gave you the confidence to even consider the connection. That's bs.

No; it was the tone of post 44 that sparked my interest. My suspicion of Kthx had nothing to do with it. I would have still made the point about you even if I had no suspicion of him.

Also, explain what you "expected" from my response to Slandaar's vote on me.

I expected you to query it earlier, not bring it up later as if you had been reminded to ask about it.

I'm voting you because I don't believe your accusation of me came from town.

On what grounds?

Explain why what you posted about me would be useful to anyone who didn't have Kthx as a conf scum read.

It becomes useful when looked back at later should he flip scum.

It made his self vote look very fake. It showed that he didn't really want out of this game.

How does changing his mind and getting on with the game make him scum rather than town? It's more of a null tell to me.

We seem unable to put pressure on anyone besides Conman today, ...

What's stopping you putting pressure on someone else?

[Huntress]

I can't figure out where he gets the idea I am suggesting kthx is scum from this post.

It looks like he thought that the last line of your 228 was addressed to me rather than paraphrasing me.

Why would it get your attention if you had no suspicion of Kthx?

As I said earlier, it was the tone of the post. It doesn't take much to get my attention that early in the game.

"Later". It's useless now.
Town-you would note it down somewhere and bring it up should Kthx turn out to be scum (if you were confident in the possible connection).
Scum-you would bring it up (a terrible accusation) ASAP. Anything to make a townie look bad is good for you.

Yeah; scum would love town to keep quiet about their thoughts until it was too late. If I think something is worth saying then I'll say it.

He changes his mind as soon as we offered the option for town-him to replace out. I'm quite confident that town in his position would replace out once told to by 'everyone' else.
Do you agree?

No, I don't. For a start, only four people told him to replace out, that's not "everyone", and secondly I see his willingness to move past his frustration, or whatever it was, and stick with the game as more of a player tell than an alignment tell. If anything I would have thought that newbiescum was less likely to do that.

Your vote on Mala makes the second time you've voted someone just for looking at you.

[Huntress]

The last line of my post

was

my comment on your reason. Although I didn't actually see a reason for your vote. Just your statement that her case on you was vote-worthy.

[Huntress]

I've just been taking another look at Qwints' posts.

1, He calls out Conman's apparently retaliatory vote, post 120, but doesn't ask why, just saying that the vote was for no actual reason. I note he made no comment when Absta did the same thing, twice.

2, The abrupt switch from calling Conman scum to calling him VI, and voting Ace for a similar abrupt change of mind. Why was it wrong for Ace to change his mind but not for him to do the same?

3, I didn't like this post:

We seem unable to put pressure on anyone besides Conman today, and it doesn't look like he's going to make any posts that actually contribute to the game. I'm quite confident that he's a player who posts with little thought but who seems to do so in noob-scum ways. Since I agree that we pretty much have to lynch him today and then reevaluate what's happened so far, I'm going to

UNVOTE: theaceofspades
VOTE: TheConman17

It seems to imply he doesn't think Conman is scum but wants to lynch him anyway rather than try to look at other players.

I asked in post 257 what was stopping him putting pressure on anyone else but he didn't reply, just saying he approved of exploring other avenues, but not actually doing so. Although I see he has picked a couple of names from Conman's list to look at so we'll see what comes of that.

[Huntress]

I bet your scum you seem to only post about me and what other people say about me, it gives off a weird vibe but I still don't think your scum

Fos: Qwints

Er, why FoS him if you don't think he's scum? Although according to your list you do. Are you going to tell us the reasons for your scum-reads?

[Huntress]

Yes, I know what you mean. But it depends a bit on the player; some act that way as scum and some don't.


Just chasing up a couple of unanswered questions:

@ Kthxbye: You never replied to the second part of my question in post 210: Which were the points you were calling good in post 182?

@ Conman: What made you change your mind on Kthxbye?

[Huntress]

As for ace's Conman unvote feeling like scum trying to avoid a mislynch...I didn't agree with his rationale for unvoting Conman. If Conman turns out to be scum I think ace/Mala is cleared. If Conman turns out to be town I think ace/Mala deserves a closer look. Capiche? And no...I would not support a wagon based only/primarily on this unvote but it did feel a bit scummy to me.

What rationale for Ace unvoting Conman didn't you agree with? All he gave was a feeling, that he was starting to hate the wagon, and a reference to SiN's comments.

[Huntress]

@huntress- your first mention of meph is when you say "If Conman flips scum I'd be looking at Mephisto and absta first." did you only find him scummy in relation to conman? as you haven't mentioned him at all, what did you specifically find scummy about him, only his stance against the conman wagon?

I didn't find Meph scummy at all, and I agreed with what he said about Conman. My comment only referred to a possible link in the event that Conman should be scum, which I don't think very likely.

@Huntress...when I made my initial gripe about ace getting off the Conman wagon it was because of gut. Conman's wagon seemed to finally be getting somewhere (qwint had just put him at L-1) and

then

ace decides to not support it. In my catch up post the other day I looked the unvote over more closely and questioned ace's rationale. So first objection...gut. Later...rationale. ace's rationale for unvoting was "mostly due to SiN in post 161". Have you looked at Post 161? That's a bunch of gibberish and excuse making from SiN on Conman's behalf for what is essentially a WIFOM defense of himself (by Conman). Then SiN decides for some reason that this makes Conman town. Crap.

So as I do not accept SiN's defense of Conman = I do not accept ace's reasoning that it's a good enough reason to unvote Conman.

Yes, I read SiN's post and thought he made some sense. So you disagreed with Ace because he agreed with SiN's position on Conman? How would agreeing with SiN make him scummy?

[Huntress]

Just bringing my case on Kthxbye up to date from my post 119:

Since then he has suggested possible follow-ups to a Conman flip; says he "Can't argue the sound logic of qwints" even though Qwints' case on Ace was based on Conman being VI rather than scum; said SiN was acting odd; and done nothing else other than continuing to push for a lynch on Conman. That is: no scumhunting and no other reads, which reinforces earlier concerns that his declared eagerness to scumhunt was fake. He's the highest poster in the game but has contributed precious little to it apart from complaining about "lack of activity", the epitome of active lurking. I'm more sure of him being scum than I am of anyone else at the moment.

[Huntress]

@huntress- i find it odd that you agreed with what my predecessor said about conman and yet you setup a scum connection between the two at the same time, that seems to be at odds. I also find it odd that out of SK, SiN, absta, & meph, et al, you are picking meph and absta for the 2nd look over.

and of course by odd, i mean scummy.

Why does it seem at odds? As for picking Meph and absta first, in Meph's case there were a couple of associative tells which put him slightly ahead of SiN and SK; in absta's case it was the fact that I'm suspicious of him but don't think he is scum with Kthx, and that I got the feeling that he was avoiding giving an opinion on Conman.

[Huntress]

Then you are either really poor town or scum with conman. Tell me huntress, do you feel conman is town? If so, what good is he to you in a lylo situation? How can you trust his actions come later days if he is not lynched.

The only way conman doesn't reach lylo is if we lynch him. His posts, all of them, are shrouded in over reaction and scummy behavior. Scum won't nk him due to this.

I guess your first sentence means you that you don't have a reply to post 359 as I can't think what else the "Then" might apply to. Yes, I'm leaning null to town on Conman. If it came to lylo I'd trust him more than you as things are at the moment. At least he is trying. And you are still giving me the impression that you don't think he is actually scum.

@ Qwints:

Why did you ignore the question I asked you in post 257, and referred to in post 302? Did anything come of the re-read you said you were going to do in post 299?

Yes. I don't think scum-Conman forgets his teammates when listing his reads.

What basis do you have for saying this?

[Huntress]

I find it at odds b/c you happen to agree with the stance meph was taking. Assuming you're not Scum, I find it contrary to say 'I agree' with one side of your mouth and 'If we're both wrong, you're Scum' with the other.

I agreed with Meph's comments in posts 76 and 84 but they don't preclude the fact that he may have been defending a scum buddy's poor posting. Nowhere have I said that Conman flipping scum would mean that Meph was scum; just that it was possible as there are links that point that way.

Conman asking for the VC constantly is slightly scummy imo. I sometimes do that when i'm scum as a habit. It's possible that scum do it to check which players are likely misslynches and to make sure they don't vote the same person as their partner(s).

Why doesn't this also apply to Kthx who has also asked for vote counts? If asking for the counts is a tell at all I would have thought it was because scum want to appear active rather than for the reason you give here.

@ havingfitz:

What was the point of post 378?


I can't get my head around the argument between D3x and Slandaar tonight. I'll look at it closer in the morning but from what I've seen so far I'm beginning to rethink my early read on Slandaar.

In the meantime let's have some more votes on

Kthxbye

. Once again he's using Conman as a smokescreen to hide the fact that he's doing next to nothing.

[Huntress]

Really huntress? Nothing in my last post was logically based and just a smoke screen? This isn't the first time you've come to conmans defence btw. Any specific reason for that? Mind posting the reasons I'd need a smoke screen for anyway? Might get more votes that way...

I've already posted my case on you in post post 359, and I gave you my view on Conman in post 371. The smokescreen comment was self-explanatory.

Neither is fitz. Why vote Kthx and not fitz?

Qwints too. But I've only one vote and there's more to the case on Kthxbye than just that; besides which I'm not sure what I think of havingfitz yet. He seems a bit more town than the other two.


Slandaar's case against D3x started with post 168 but all Meph seemed to be admitting to in it was missing the connection with Conman's post. I don't see how this equates to "caught" scum or in any way justifies the emphasis Slandaar is giving it. Post 379 could have been a misunderstanding but after D3x explained himself in post 380 Slandaar just paraphrased his earlier post. He did a similar thing earlier when accusing me of taking Kthxbye out of context. Too much of his case against Conman involves painting him as a VI and calling him scummy for that. The whole feel of his play here seems different from a previous game we were both in.

Vote: Slandaar

[Huntress]

Sorry I haven't had much time the last couple of days and I've got to go out with the family in a few minutes. I'm just rushing this out because it looks like there's been a hammer, and without waiting for a claim either; what was the hurry Kthxbye?

SaintKerrigan's post 460 was bad and those following it weren't much better. Either he's making judgements without having read the game properly or he has an ulterior motive for his comments. I'm guessing it's the latter.

Qwints is still ignoring pertinent questions. Read his ISO from post 233 (ISO 21) onwards.

I'm thinking the scum are between Slandaar, Qwints, SaintKerrigan and Kthxbye.

If Conman flips scum then it's probably D3x. SK may be bussing, I think he's scum regardless of the flip. Not sure who else. Maybe Kthx.

Absta/Dumbhanger doesn't look good either.

[Huntress]

Thanks for an interesting game AP.

So we did have rival scum wagons on Day one; even though two of the scum didn't know it at the time!

I thought Kthx was soft-claiming vig in post 540 but as scum or possibly SK. I was pretty sure at that point that it was him who shot me.

Was Conman's lynch the trigger for Slandaar to join up with Qwints?