Mini 1407 (Game Over)

havingfitz · Post Post #332 (isolation #0) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:04 am

In post 331, Cheery Dog wrote:
havingfitz replaces implosion effective from now

^ I'll try to get caught up today (should be able).

havingfitz · Post Post #360 (isolation #1) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:46 pm

Catch up….yes…most think it’s crap but it’s how I do it.

No RVS from Ice (fishing?)

Post 11 - My predecessor is of the same opinion….

Post 15 – from denis is

Followed by a

post from Matt.

Post 24 – Softclaim discussion from denis. IDKWtToi

denis up to L-3 already…

Ice not terribly bothered by denis but doesn’t like the similar play of projectmatt. Until his next post where he decides he doesn’t like denis. But he keeps his vote on PM.

Not sure why Matt is voting Bub….and apparently Rob doesn’t like Matt’s 3rd post (

check later

…yeah…I typically do not care for when people wave the town flag unnecessarily. Minimally scummy though.)

I do not care for Ice’s Post 43. He is pushing my predecessor for what was obviously a RV and then he clarifies his dislike of denis’ post 22 for “multiple reasons” by saying he’s not sure yet. So “multiple reasons” is now not sure yet. WTF?

OK…so bottom of page 2 and players who have caught my interest (either good or bad) are Matt (?), Ice (leaning bad), Rob (leaning good) and denis (leaning bad…plus he seems to have stepped back into the background a bit from his earlier incitement efforts).

I like Ice’s Post 63….Ice can be town for now.

Annnnnnnnd chkflp puts Matt at L-3 (similarly to his L-3 on denis). And says he likes the way denis deals with pressure (

check it

Imp addresses below))

In posts 66 and 67 Ice and Matt ask a lot of questions. Asking a lot of questions is always a very townie thing to do unless you are scum of course…in which case you are probably only asking questions to look townish.

I like my predecessor’s Post 69 asking chkflp about his denis read…which I was curious about earlier. I can not find a response anywhere from chkflp…..

Post 70 - Matt seems to legitimately feel like denis is scum and yet his vote is still on Bub. (Not good)

Page 4 ends with an interesting exchange between chkflp and Matt. My first response was to think if one of them is scum the other one probably isn’t…but then I thought it would be pretty impressive distancing if they were both scum. TBD further in catch up based on how things progress. (Post-catch up comment: I can’t seem to recall how they have come to make up….more to follow).

I like Ice’s Post 117….Ice can lean town again for now. Hey…..and 2 posts later he shares my distancing sentiment above.

And now Matt thinks chkflip is town.

And denis decides to claim tracker with only 3 votes on him. WTF? (this actually makes me think denis is stupid/skittish town).

@Rob….but why would scum ever claim a PR at L-4? I would think scum would be more cautious….and patient.

OK…so was denis claim a joke or not? I’ve never played in a game with a jester (iirc) but I’m starting to wonder about denis. It’s like he is trying to get lynched.

Despite his previous strong commitment to a Matt D1 lynch Ice is now committed to denis.

What does denis being from epicmafia have to do with anything (question is to anyone since original comment was from my predecessor)?

Post 172 is a bad idea. If denis is bordering on unreadable/policyesque-type lynch-worthy it would be a terrible idea to take him to LYLO. Like….really really bad.

Wow…very surprised at Iceninja’s pretentious bailout. Shame on you.

Back to game…

@Bub…if I had to lean one way or the other on the alignment of someone replacing out like Ice did…I would lean town.

I like Empire’s Post 198 and his reads are close to what I am feeling….aside from the Ion read as scum and I’m not ready to anoint Matt as town.

What does “Empire is not stab? mean?

@Empire…what used to be your main?

@denis…you had 3 votes on you when you claimed tracker. Not 6. You had in fact

received

6 votes in total but 2 had switched their votes and one (Imp) had unvoted you and then revoted you. So your claim was completely unnecessary.

@denis….yes…you could receive a protection if there is one in the game. But if you are scum…you could also be drawing a protection that might otherwise be used on someone who is actually coming across as town. Ex. Empire.

I had a laugh at Junpei saying he PASSIVELY called chkflp a cheater. How does one do that passively. Too funny. When I first read it I was waiting for chkflp to explode on you. I was surprised at how lowkey (i.e. passive) his response to you was. Was your intent to piss him off?

^Ninja’d by Rob and Empire.

Observation…chkflp…you seem to be basing your scum read on Rob on the assumption that denis is town and that Rob is pushing an easy mislynch that would be achievable because the general consensus (of players you “assume” are) town is that he [denis] is lynchworthy? This despite the fact you yourself have spent a good portion of today with denis as a scum read. Could you please explain? Link to the post where you changed you mind on denis perhaps?

I hate self-votes. Hate ‘em.

And I see RayFrost uses the same stream of consciousness catch up that people despise when I give. Bravo.

What Imp/matt connections are people referring to?

The content from wam and Breakfast is pathetic…though wam at least has the unfortunate excuse of a ridiculously long replace-out worthy v/LA. Ion and Bub also underposting I see. Of these underposters I’m probably the most suspicious of Breakfast but with all the other content in the game…I hate to vote someone who is probably headed for replacement soon. (Edit...I see Breakfast has been replaced so I'd like to see what HD can contribute).

Summary

…I don't like any of the wagons now that Breakfast is gone. If there is a good case on Rob I do not recall it. chkflp was making my radar ping a bit earlier in the game but for the most part (aside from my observation above) I'm leaning town on him (I think mostly due to his outburst). I think Empire is probably town. I'm most interested in a Matt lynch. I do not care for denis's play but I think the claim deserves a night to play out (plus as I said earlier...I think the unnecessary claim is more likely from bad town than scum). There are really a lot of slots that are lacking material so I'm pretty confident there's scum among them (wam, HD, Ion, lincolm, Ray and to a somewhat lesser degree Junpei and Bub).

Caught up.

VOTE: projectmatt

havingfitz · Post Post #373 (isolation #2) » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:24 am

@Matt....it's how I catch up in games. I read through...comment where I see fit as I read through and then after a bit of contemplation I put my vote where I think it best placed.

To Rob and Junpei...yeah...it's a wall. Over 14 pages of game necessitated it.

@Matt....1) Posts 20/38/46 brought you to my attention along with the vote rationales provided by Ice and Bub. 2) Exactly why scum would do it. 3) My bad...I missed the part where you said he was probably town. 4a) I didn't think you were town, 4b hence I was interested in your lynch, 4c I'd rather lynch someone I suspect than take a random shot at a bunch of absent player slots...i.e. I'm not a huge advocate of lynching lurkers.

@denis....what do you mean there hasn't been much play from Matt? He's one of the most active posters in the game.

@chkflp....no.

havingfitz · Post Post #375 (isolation #3) » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:21 am

Matt...lately I've been trying to follow up catchups with an ISO on whoever comes out of my read through with my vote. I will try to get one done on you today if possible. I'll see if a closer looks changes my view towards you.

As for the not ready to anoint town comment...it was my subtle way of saying I disagreed with someone's (Empire's ?) read on you. I didn't feel it was necessary to add an adverb to my disagreement.

Curious in the meantime...which of Ray's reads do you consider "flawed?" Who are your scumreads? And why after giving your scumreads in Post 197 did you put a 2nd vote on Breakfast (who wasn't even mentioned in your reads 5 posts earlier) instead on one of the 2 scum reads you did voice (i.e. Junpei or Bub)? Edit...I see you answer this later (to Ray)....and I too think Empire brings up some good points against Breakfast. It just seems odd that he (Breakfast) when from nowhere on your radar to the top of your list. And I don't see why you didn't vote one of your scum reads when you announced them as such. Instead you left your vote uncast.

havingfitz · Post Post #377 (isolation #4) » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:27 am

I replaced Implosion.

How is a read/s I assume you disagree with town?

havingfitz · Post Post #395 (isolation #5) » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:31 am

Spoiler: Matt ISO:

Summary...I still think Matt is the best candidate for our D1 lynch. My second choice would probably be Breakfast/HD for reasons voiced by Empire. So vote stays where it is for now.

@denis...you defend matt by saying he hasn't got a lot of content and then when it is pointed out to you that he is one of the more active posters you concede the point and instead say he's just been posting about "pretty dumb shit by no fault of his own." How is what Matt is posting about anyone's responsibility other than his? What do you actually think of what he has posted? Given that you seem to have not noticed a lot of it perhaps an ISO of him (or review of mine above) is in order?

These are the players I do not feel I have a good enough read on yet to vote over Matt...though i would probably consider a better option than a No Lynch: RayFrost, Bub, Lincolm, Ion, Junpei, wam, HD (in order of T>S feel ATM).

Anyone not on this list I feel good enough about ATM to not consider for today's lynch at all.

havingfitz · Post Post #513 (isolation #6) » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:33 pm

Been out all day...just checking in the say WTF? My first reaction is to vote denis. You are a fcuking idiot denis. 1) I didn't visit anybody and 2) you just outted a bunch of PRs that didn't need to be outted. Still not sure why Lincolm claimed without letting Rob perhaps put his foot in his mouth...but there was no need for Thunderhog to claim anything except for your lie. Lynching liars is the only policy lynch I support btw.

denis - claimed unnecessarily D1 under little pressure and got caught in a lie D2 which he apparently was willing to see through to a quick D2 mislynch. Really focking nice. I see no reason for Thunderhog to have lied and he has obviously told the truth since denis has admitted to lying. Lincolm....depending on what Rob says I guess he is town. Rob TBD.

The other 2+ claims I still need to think over.

BTW...did I mention fcuk you denis. Stupid scum or stupid Vi

Why are you claiming to have tracked me when iirc you were pressing Rob fairly hard to end D1?

In fact...screw that. A liar is a liar is a liar.

VOTE: denis

havingfitz · Post Post #520 (isolation #7) » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:11 am

Ohhh kaaaaay. That was an exciting start to the day. Feel free to discuss.

havingfitz · Post Post #522 (isolation #8) » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:17 am

Speaking of discussing...how many of you have been in games with both a tracker and a watcher? I just finished one myself but otherwise I don't recall seeing it that often. Unless the abilities belong to the same player (ex JOAT or Inventor). My point being I don't believe them both but I do believe Lincolm.

P.edit...wtf Rob? I just posted late last night...it would be good to get other opinions. And my post last night was pretty much giving an opinion

havingfitz · Post Post #524 (isolation #9) » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:12 am

UNVOTE:

Missed that little connection.

I still maintain my sentiment towards denis' play. ffs

So let me get this straight....you're saying you have investigated someone who was jailkept?

Is that even possible?

VOTE: Rob

Lying denis' lack of a track confirms Thunder's jaikeep...unless Thunderhog is a RB.

Rob or TH are scum people. Take your pick.

Just to be safe....mod...if your game had a jailkeeper would an any investigative role get a result if their inv target was jailkept?

havingfitz · Post Post #526 (isolation #10) » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:56 am

I thought jk's insulated their targets from any actions. There actually is a variant that does. As for your claim...I read it...I just didn't make the innocence connection as my vote was already on lying denis. I was more interested in getting some activity going.

UNVOTE:

havingfitz · Post Post #528 (isolation #11) » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:22 am

Because saying nothing generates tons of activity. /sarcasm

And you seem to be discounting my previous and subsequent posts which were in no way fluff.

havingfitz · Post Post #530 (isolation #12) » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:27 am

Unless one of the non-"lying denis" claimers is lying I must sadly resign myself to the fact he is being truthful. I do however wonder why he took his vote off me after his lie was revealed. It's like he knew I was town and he had been caught doing something wrong. So he unvoted. Rather than just keeping it on me and stating his suspicions/case on me.

I'm not sure who I suspect atm as HD's flip has me thinking my end of D1 suspect (matt) is most likely town.

TH...as Rob has already been so kind to point out to me.... if you're voting denis you either overlooked or do not believe his claim. Which is it?

havingfitz · Post Post #554 (isolation #13) » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:25 am

Catch up post:

I agree with what Matt is saying in Post 540...if there is someone fakeclaiming it is most likely TH or Rob. My head hurts thinking of what the implication towards lying-denis is, based on which, if either, of them are in fact faking.

If Rob is telling the truth and TH is telling the truth...lying-denis is confirmed town.

If Rob is telling the truth and TH is fakeclaiming...lying-denis is confirmed town.

If Rob is fakeclaiming and TH is telling the truth...lying-denis's alignment is TBD.

If Rob is fakeclaiming and TH is fakeclaiming...lying-denis is confirmed town and scum are mentally challenged.

Of the two claims...if there is a fakeclaim I would say it is Rob as (as TH has pointed out) if TH was scum there would have been no reason to fakeclaim and impede lying-denis's track of me when I was on the brink of being lynched followed by lying-denis's lynch the following day. So a two mislynch for the price of one combo deal. Unless TH had an unusually large craving for town cred. 3/4 of the possibilities however point to lying-denis being in fact, a tracker.

Good FYI on lying-denis from Empire in Post 541.

@Junpei...why was my Post 522 a terrible post? Other than the JOAT or Inventor scenario I posed I have only seen both roles in one other mini...in which I protested afterwards (I was scum) about them having both roles in the game. I did not feel it was balanced. Without knowing what scum has and assuming both claims are in fact legit (denis's is still unconfirmed) I can not say if this game is unbalanced or not. If both roles ARE in this game I look forward to seeing what scum have for PRs. And your paraphrase of my comment was pretty terrible itself. As I type this however I do think the potential for x-shot abilities gives some added potential for both roels being in this game. Also...I would say this post was made before I connected the dots on Rob's claim. Obviously if he is telling the truth my doubts about both roles being in this game are removed.

I will say the only claim out there that I completely believe is Lincolm's.

Annnnnd WTF Rob....how is Junpei's Post 542 that you refer to in Post 544 a "Great analysis - SO TOWN?" It was a crap analysis IMO.

tl:dr; so we can either elect to lynch one of the PR's that have claimed (Rob or TH) and see what happens tonight, or...on the off chance they are in fact all telling the truth...look amongst the group who how not made any such claims; myself, Junpei,Ray, Empire, Bub, Ion and Matt.

Of these I would say my leaning scum to leaning town scale would be:

Scum -->Junpei.Bub.....Ion.....Ray..Matt......Empire. <--Town

VOTE: Junpei

This is mostly based on gut and POE. I'll ISO him to see if I still want to go this way.

Mod...I know Ion has another ~24 hours before he is due an "official" 72-hr prod for today's inactivity but overall he hasn't posted in thread in 6.5 days. Could you give him a courtesy WTF? prod?

havingfitz · Post Post #557 (isolation #14) » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:08 am

^ As the target of the "gambit" I think it was scummy as hell and stupid. That said...all the claims seem to point at him being town so I guess I can only say it' s stupid. If he hadn't had all the activity directed him we could have been down 2 townies real quick. As it is...a shitload of PRs has claimed for it. So no...it might have come from town but I don't think it was extremely townie.

And you are right...denis is basically confirmed no matter what.

havingfitz · Post Post #580 (isolation #15) » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:27 am

This game is starting to suffer from excessive absence and apathy. I'm a bit focused on other games at the moment but I'll try to look over Junpei's ISO before the weekend.

Comments/thoughts/votes from the 5 people not voting would be good.

havingfitz · Post Post #581 (isolation #16) » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:32 am

In post 559, Ion67 wrote:Sorry for being so inactive. I have been sick. I will try to post more in the coming days.

How's that recovery going

havingfitz · Post Post #624 (isolation #17) » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:47 am

In post 612, Cheery Dog wrote:
RayFrost has requested replacement, searching now.

Also prodding havingfitz an hour early so that's it's not actually 8 hours late.

I love when replacements replace out. /sarcasm

Ack on the prod...didn't realize it had been that long. Other games and RL has interfered. Will catchup/comment asap.

havingfitz · Post Post #672 (isolation #18) » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 am

Catching up today.

It would be good to get inputs from our new or missing players before the day ends.

havingfitz · Post Post #678 (isolation #19) » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:05 pm

OK...I started this ISO last week and got distracted by other games and RL and have fallen behind in here a bit. So here I go:

Junpei joins in the middle of page 6. His initial suspects were Matt, chkflp and implosion.

Votes chkflp over Matt due to stronger read. Logical assumption would be that implosion is 3rd.

Junpei finds implosions "logic based town read" on Matt (vice gut) suspicious.

Disagees with Ice wrt to denis discrediting those who attack him [denis]. Says Ice comments are "scary."

Now suspects denis.

Provides his second FYI that he hasn't played mafia in months, the first being in his first post of the game. Is this to receive some sort of pass for your actions due to being rusty?

Summarizes what he believes to be a fake interaction between Matt and chkflp.

Then in his next post he accuses chkflp of being a cheater. I thought this was unnecessary and could have been an attempt to derail any rational scumhunting by chkflp.

Infers that Rob is "positive" denis is telling the truth. I don't see that in Rob's Post 246 but it does support a potential Rob investigation of denis during the night. What I don't understand about this is that he [Junpei] accuses Rob of "trusting him [denis] too much" when at this point in the game, Rob is voting denis. Comes off as a poor effort to plant seeds of suspicions towards Rob when he very obviously does not believe or trust denis at this point in the game.

Accuses chkflp of using out of game issues to ignore facts in this one. I find this a bit contradictory giving that Junpei brought up the whole topic of cheating to begin with. The initial baiting of chkflp has turned into a negative towards chkflp when he responds to it.

More chkflp negativity based on his [chkflp's] reaction to the cheating accusation. The bait is continuing to produce results. Also seems to be making some sort of accusation towards denis based on the "assumption" that he [denis] has been playing a lot on Epicmafia. Not sure how Junpei would know this or why it would matter.

Annnnnnnd more chkflp negativity based on his [chkflp's] reaction to the cheating accusation. Pissing off your suspect seems to really produce lots of cause for suspicion.

Gives Bub flack for voting Rob. Or at least a perceived lack of justification for voting Rob?

Annnnnnnd more chkflp negativity based on his [chkflp's] reaction to the cheating accusation.

Disagrees with Rayfrost's intial read on chkflp (town?) but agrees with Ray's suspicions towards Matt. Matt still suspect #2.

Junpei denies ever talking about meta despite having talked about it only four ISO posts early in Post 343

His HD vote comes across as reluctant IMO. Solid condidate for an HD bus vote.

First person (other than denis) to vote for me after denis' lying gambit.

Tells Bub he would vote him if not for denis' lying guilty on me.

Immediately votes denis after denis' lie is exposed.

Claims Thunderhogs claim is the least likely to be mafia.

Begins to question Thunderhog's claim.

Votes Thunderhog for logic I do not understand. Then unvotes in the next post for being in error. @Junpei...what was the error that made you unvote Thunderhog despite the fact you re-voted him 20 posts later?

In this post he gives an excellent example of circumstances where bussing your partner is appropriate.

Votes Bub for unknown reasons. This makes me wonder what happened to his earlier suspicions of Matt (his #2).

Annnnnnnd he votes Thunder again because the "roleblocker has to go first" and provides more seeds of suspicion towards his previous #2, Matt, who he just passed over for Bub in his previous vote.

Says he has other reasons for suspecting Thunder aside from his claim. Junpei...could you provide a link (or summary) of your "other reasons" for voting Thunder?

I do agree somewhat with Junpei's point of doubt about Thunder's claim. On that note...did denis ever claim his PR was x-shot?

In this post Junpei questions Thunder's hypothesis that Rob is a roleblocker. Null wrt Junpei but it does bring the comment from Thunder up on my radar.

@Thunder...

how can you accuse another player of being a roleblocker when you know/claim to have done essentially the same action on the player [denis] you suspect them [Rob] of performing his action [roleblocking] on? This makes no sense to me.

OK...Junpei's Post 603 is a pretty convincing indictment of Thunder.

In Junpei questions Mew's vote on Thunder. This confuses me given the amount of effort Junpei has put in to building his case on Thunder. Is Mew suspect for his vote on Thunder? Then two posts later Junpei is incredulous that Bub has vote Thunder as well. WTF?

OK...done.

Where does that leave me? I still have suspicions towards Junpei. They seemed to grow as the game progressed but then some of his points towards Thunder make sense and Thunder's play has seemed a bit flailing lately. Probably the main reason I maintain suspicion towards Junpei is how quick he was to join my wagon after denis' lying claim result. I got to L-1 quickly (understandly based on denis' lie....but scum would have known a) denis was lying and b) that he had been blocked. So one of two things (or both) could have happened. Scum could have hopped onto my wagon knowing it was going to be an easy mislynch that would lead most likely to denis' demise the following day AND/OR...scum could go for tons of town cred and just claim to have "jailkept" denis (essentially the same as roleblocking) and coasted to the end.

Of the first circumstance...if there is going to be scum on my wagon I think it is most likely to be Junpei because, correct me if I am wrong, but denis is confirmed town given all the claim results; Lincolm is close to confirmed town (unless he and Rob are scum gambitting out their arses, which I do not see happening); Rob's claim seems legit and Empire has just been a stronger town read most of the game. So PoE points to Junpei. Though...all of them (except for denis) voted HD too so for someone on my L-1 wagon to be scum...they'd have had to of bussed HD...which is perfectly reasonable given his play.
I don't see my Junpei wagon getting anywhere so I'm cool with a Thunder lynch.

UNVOTE:

It looks like several people are willing to hammer but it would still be good to hear Deasvail and Lincolm's thoughts first. Is Lincolm even still in the game? He hasn't had a vote out since he claimed watcher?

havingfitz · Post Post #680 (isolation #20) » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:33 pm

^ If it consisted of more I'd still be voting you.

havingfitz · Post Post #694 (isolation #21) » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:30 am

If denis was targetted by a vig...Lincolm would have watched the attempt. If you are claiming to be town...and that Rob is the aforementioned Vig...then where was the mafia kill? This makes no sense as a consideration.

havingfitz · Post Post #696 (isolation #22) » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:09 am

I forgot about chlflp. Ffs....I'm in too many games.

So basically Thunder thinks Rob is scum but of an unknown variety. Got it.

havingfitz · Post Post #717 (isolation #23) » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:45 am

What are we still waiting for? It seems to be a foregone conclusion that Thunder is the day's lynch. He has had some solid points brought up against him and most people suspect him iirc. What else do we need? I'll hammer at 1200ish EST if no one beats me to it or provides a reason not to.

havingfitz · Post Post #723 (isolation #24) » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:27 am

I got tied up with other things and missed my 1200 EST deadline.

I think this is the hammer:

VOTE: ThunderHog

havingfitz · Post Post #743 (isolation #25) » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:07 am

Catching up....

@Lincolm...I didn't answer your question because it appeared to be rhetorical once you answered it yourself. Not sure what your logic was but it's n/a now with Thunder's town flip.

Rob looks to be the hot topic today. To Empire and Lincolm...Rob is at L-2 already...why are you voting him?

Bub's Rob case looks strong. I am hesitant to bring him to L-1 this early in the day though as I do not see anything definitive that says he can't be telling the truth.

@Rob....can you respond to these allegations by Bub (let me know if I am off on these Bub):

1- Your claim fits the situation.

2- You're a mafia RBer that targetted denis because he had claimed.

3- Claiming 1-shot lets you off the hook the rest of the game.

4- If you had an innocent on denis, why did you question his claim of tracking me?

5 - Why did you not just come right out at the beginning of D2 and claim your result?

Not sure what to think on Rob ATM. Probably leaning scum but I don't want to ignore the possibility that he and Thunder were a town vs town situation. Would like to hear his response before I consider putting him at L-1 (or hammering).

@DV...what are your thoughts on Post 740? Are you posting it because you think it is coming from town or because you find it suspect? I could not tell.

And Lincolm...what do you mean by "He is genuine?" Why does the DV quote of Rob make support your vote on him?

I was considering doing some VCA based on our two flips but the fact everyone still alive at the end of D2 was either voting Thunder or not voting at all makes it a bit strange. If I had to guess I would say logic favors at least one scum on the wagon and one off. But if I'm wrong on this I would err towards both on. No way are both off the mislynch.

If there was scum off the thunder wagon it would be within DV, Empire or Matt as Lincolm is ~confirmed town. I'd probably lean towards Matt for those off the wagon. That said...I think today's lynch has to come from on the wagon.

@Matt...do you have any completed scum games on mafiascum?

Also, at Lincolm....were you telling the truth with your claim or did you have a chance to watch anyone last night?

havingfitz · Post Post #744 (isolation #26) » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:10 am

Also...on the chance that Rob is scum, I'd avoid putting him at L-1 yet as a potential self hammer could bring the day to a quicker than desired end.

havingfitz · Post Post #746 (isolation #27) » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:09 am

^ why do you think Rob "knew that Thunder is Jailkeeper?"

I still don't get your point on the quote from DV.

I asked because I was hoping you had tried to mislead scum with your claim and actually had more chances to 'watch.'. Similarly to how denis wasn't an x-shot ability.

havingfitz · Post Post #750 (isolation #28) » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:34 am

In post 749, Lincolm wrote:If ThunderHog is a jailkeeper, you're a mafia (who know the scum and town) rolecop, you gain result, you know what kind of version the jailkeeper that ThunderHog have. You didn't state that when everyone asked it. If you sure that version is the most common, why you don't state it?

How would Rob have been able to rolecop Thunder if you saw him visiting denis N1?

havingfitz · Post Post #756 (isolation #29) » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:40 pm

Bub is convincing. Rob's claim doesn't fit well against all of the others that have been, or are, basically confirmed. If he hasn't been lynched before then I'll vote Rob tomorrow around 1200 est (barring something substantial changing my mind).

havingfitz · Post Post #760 (isolation #30) » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:04 pm

What's forced about not wanting the day to end almost immediately. I thought you (and anyone else) deserved a chance to say more but your post 757 looks like you've said enough.

VOTE: Rob

<---L-1

havingfitz · Post Post #767 (isolation #31) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:32 am

In post 761, Empire wrote:
Unvote

Not risking a rushed derp hammer especially when there are some people who haven't fully checked back in yet.

^ So Rob...in light of your vote on me, what do you think of this post by Empire ?

havingfitz · Post Post #768 (isolation #32) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:37 am

In post 766, Lincolm wrote:
In post 764, DeasVail wrote:Lincolm, I would have assumed that the JK was the basic version as well.

Somehow I found his post not assuming, but sure of it.

Devil's advocate hat on:

Lincolm...do you realize there is no way Rob could know what kind of PR Thunder was...even if he was a rolecop as you are suggesting? You say you saw Rob visit denis N1...so you have to KNOW he didn't visit Thunder. So how can you logically justify thinking he rolecopped Thunder the same night?

havingfitz · Post Post #769 (isolation #33) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:49 am

Just saw above where Lincolm suggested that Rob rolecopped denis.

If that is so denis...how could Rob have any firm read on what role Thunder was?

havingfitz · Post Post #771 (isolation #34) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:53 am

Isn't your reason based on what you thought?

havingfitz · Post Post #792 (isolation #35) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:26 am

Sloooooooooooow day....

@Bub...why couldn't Rob be telling the truth? And what would that do to your reads if he was?

havingfitz · Post Post #804 (isolation #36) » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:55 am

This game seems to have lost momentum

havingfitz · Post Post #810 (isolation #37) » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:04 am

UNVOTE: Rob

I'd like to see what this Mew line of questioning to Bub uncovers along with getting thoughts from Matt, Empire and Jupei's replacement.

havingfitz · Post Post #811 (isolation #38) » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:08 am

Mew...what is your take on Bub's Rob case (which I bulletize in Post 743?

havingfitz · Post Post #821 (isolation #39) » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:41 am

In post 814, projectmatt wrote:

Havingfitz, why did you ask me if i had any completed scum games and why did you never follow through with the question? Also, why should I vote rob? Convince me.

Just because I haven't discussed further with you (yet) doesn't mean I didn't follow through with the question (hint...I did). I haven't discussed yet again with you because Rob has been the topic of the game so far and otherwise I've been tied up in other games when I have had the time to post.

And why should

I

convince you to vote Rob? You have your own mind. If you look where I initially voted him you will see my reasons. However...you might also note that I am not voting him at the moment. While I was somewhat quick to vote Rob for what I thought were good reasons...the more I have considered Bub's reasons and my own apprehension that he {Rob} actually could be telling the truth...along with the doubts expressed by others...the more I'm second guessing myself about him.

I'm

leaning

scum on Rob. I also do not like his buddying post on Mew that Mew called him out on. You can convince yourself. If you had to say...what would your position on Rob be? Town or scum?

havingfitz · Post Post #861 (isolation #40) » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:47 am

OK...this game is dragging ass. The longer it remains stagnant the more likely we are to get a rushed lynch at deadline (and it would probably be a mislynch).

Here are my thoughts on the game....

Rob is the days frontrunner due to a strong push by Bub and a somewhat strong push by Lincolm. The longer the day goes on the more the case on Rob seems to come apart, be shown to not exist, or be based on WIFOM. Assessment - Rob could be scum but is by no means a slam dunk.

We could get into set up speculation but that IMO seems to usually favor scum. Giving personal experience with certain set ups is ok I guess (especially considering I did some earlier with my views towards having a watcher and tracker in the same game) but otherwise I don't put a lot of weight into it.

Lincolm is confirmed town unless people want to consider the possibility of him being a Mafia watcher. I doubt this is the case if he was a Mafia watcher there would have been no need to provide his results on Thunder and Rob. He would know what their alignments were and scum could have just saved them for NKs. So IMO Lincolm is town.

Now that we know Thunder was a mislynch I think it is reasonable to expect there to be at least one scum on his wagon. However...if there was a case for a wagon that had NO scum on it...Thunder's would qualify. Aside from the brief amount of time I had a wagon (because of denis's lying claim on me) there was really no one else really generating a counter wagon to Thunder. So I think VCA holds little weight up to this point.

Everyone probably warrants a certain amount of suspicions towards them. Several lurky types (especially today) and some new players who's predecessors gained some suspicion.

If I wasn't going to vote Rob today I think my three frontrunners for a vote would be Matt, N, Bub or Mew. N and Mew moreso based on their predecessors; Bub based on his speculative push towards Rob (so Rob's flip

could

clear Bub & vice-versa); and Matt.

Regarding Matt. I had a good deal of suspicions towards him on D1 that I let slide on D2 and beyond due to his push on scum (HD) D1. The denis fakeclaim + Rob:Thunder debates put Matt out of mind for me on D2, along with the early buzz today around Rob. However...as the Rob wagon starts to wane a bit a closer look at Matt makes me question my earlier pardon of him. I asked Matt if he had any previous scum games earlier today and rather than have him feed them to me...once he said there were some I went looking. And in the two most significant (IMO) scum games he had (Open 391 and Open 322) he bussed heavily. In 391 he bussed both his partners (to no avail) and in 322 he bussed his way to victory. He even apologized to his partner later for bussing him so hard on D1. So in this game...Matt's actions towards HD (who quite honestly sucked as scum and therefore probably has at least one and conceivably both of his partners on his wagon) upon further review...by no means clear him and in fact, shine some additional suspicion on him. That coupled with the fact since he unvoted chkflp on page 5...the only vote Matt has had in play the entire game was on HD on D1. He [Matt] hasn't had a vote out since D1. Nothing all of D2 and nothing yet today. And whereas he was one of the most active posters on D1, he has significantly dropped in his contribution level to the game on D2 and D3.

I'm back to thinking Matt is scum (where I had my vote at the end of D1) and he has just lurked behind all the other activity the last two days.

VOTE: Matt

havingfitz · Post Post #865 (isolation #41) » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:50 pm

In post 864, projectmatt wrote:
1) -
Having, your case can literally be summed up in this sentence:

"Matt bussed in his games as mafia over half a year ago, therefore the only logical conclusion is that he is scum".

2) -
To discredit the fact that I'm town by having pushed on Human Destroyer is fair, but to imply that the fact that I pushed on scum and therefore I'm scum is probably the most hilarious line of reasoning I've ever seen.

3) -
It's pretty funny how Having mentions his "suspicions" with the case he made on d1 and how he "let me slide" and yet, he fails to mention how I completely tore his case apart and he never responded.

4) -
I'm this close to voting Rob but I really, really have a bridge to burn with HavingFitz at the moment.

1) -

This is a lie Matt. The fact you have been proven to bus as mafia is why I am reconsidering my calling you town for your D1 participation against HD.

2) -

This is a lie Matt. I'm discrediting the fact you are town (as you accept). Nowhere do I say you are scum because you pushed on scum. That was the reasons I wasn't considering you until I saw your propensity to bus.

3) -

I didn't respond because D1 ended and 3 or 4 more pages were generated in D2 before I even got back into the game. And as this was my revised read on you:

In post 530, havingfitz wrote:I'm not sure who I suspect atm as HD's flip has me thinking my end of D1 suspect (matt) is most likely town.

...I probably wouldn't have responded to your over defensive and immature response of a wall post anyway. My ISO comments remain and the links are there for others to see what my comments are based on.

4) -

Is "bridge to burn" your way of saying you feel an OMGUS response coming?

havingfitz · Post Post #871 (isolation #42) » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:46 am

In post 867, Master Mew wrote:
In post 861, havingfitz wrote:If I wasn't going to vote Rob today I think my three frontrunners for a vote would be Matt, N, Bub or Mew. N and Mew moreso based on their predecessors;

Can you elaborate here? Something particular about my predecessor's play that I can address?

I don't expect players to speak for their predecessors. I had a degree of suspicion towards Ion primarily for his lurking. I also didn't like the way HD voted Ion just before self-hammering. Also a bit of poe in there as well.

havingfitz · Post Post #906 (isolation #43) » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:48 am

prod dodge.....

havingfitz · Post Post #927 (isolation #44) » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:10 pm

In post 924, Empire wrote:Sorry for the triple post, but thinking back again, the bizarre chkflip N1 kill does actually point to Rob being scum.

Could you elaborate on this a bit Empire? I'm not a big fan of NK speculation but I'm willing to be convinced if there is something worthwhile to your suspicion.

I also didn't realize the deadline was so close. If I'm going to move off of Matt before the deadline I need to do it before the end of my night (4-5 hours from now). I'll look the other wagons over but those still undecided should consider Matt. I do not think Bub's case alone is good enough to lynch Rob and I haven't seen one to convince me yet. I was also suspect of Junpei so by default, N would be a consideration (though off the top of my head I can not think of anything N has done to raise suspicion). Any suspicions for me towards mew are because of Ion's play more than anything specifically from Mew iirc.

p.edit of Mod's votecount.

I'm not sure on Rob but I know I do not like Matt...who is on Rob (though that might actually be a good thing based on Matt's scum meta). Bub is a bit of a ? and Lincolm is Lincolm. I don't see an N wagon going anywhere. So it's Rob or Mew down to the wire. I'll vote either of them to avoid a no lynch but I like the make up of Mew's wagon better.

VOTE: Mew

havingfitz · Post Post #938 (isolation #45) » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:55 pm

In post 936, Master Mew wrote:@havingfitz: Your #927 is designed to avoid taking any responsibility for the vote that followed, as though you have no strong opinion on Rob or myself and chose arbitrarily between the two of us just to get a vote in before deadline.

How can I avoid responsibility by contributing to your lynch? I'd prefer a Matt lynch but apparently no one else is up for that. After Matt, you and Rob are both close enough in suspicion for me to support either of you...especially over a No Lynch. Your vote on me makes me feel a little better about voting you though.

As for you Rob, you've been voting me for almost two weeks. Why is "tonight" not time to write up a case? You've had two weeks to.

I'm offline the rest of the night.

havingfitz · Post Post #953 (isolation #46) » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:24 am

<crickets>

I'm fine with a claim. It will probably be a few days before I can refresh myself on the game's events.

havingfitz · Post Post #956 (isolation #47) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:14 am

Vanilla townie

N can go next.

havingfitz · Post Post #968 (isolation #48) » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:36 am

No one is saying anything....I have a busy weekend but will try to post thoughts by Monday latest.

havingfitz · Post Post #981 (isolation #49) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:04 am

Prod dodge...it might be Wednesday before I get any decent content as I need to look things over again. iirc my top three suspects are N, Mew and Matt. I think the last scum is one of them but until I looks things over again I'm not sure who I suspect more.

havingfitz · Post Post #985 (isolation #50) » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:36 am

This thread is hopping.

Other more pressing games (atm) have been taking my time up. Looking over this one asap.

No one else have anything to talk about?

havingfitz · Post Post #995 (isolation #51) » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:33 am

My preference today is Matt. If he doesn't turn out to be mafia it would be a close call between Mew and N IMO for who the last scum would be.

havingfitz · Post Post #1008 (isolation #52) » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:43 am

I just realized the deadline is in three days.

Mod...I will be v/LA from Monday through Thursday night (ie normal activity will resume Friday).

^ My v/la starts a day before deadline hits and I do not see me going a different direction with my vote. so with my v/LA AND deadline both almost here:

VOTE: Matt

havingfitz · Post Post #1026 (isolation #53) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:35 am

In post 1008, havingfitz wrote:

Mod...I will be v/LA from Monday through Thursday night (ie normal activity will resume Friday).

Reminder...

mod...I'm on vacation this week and will be v/LA until Friday morning.

I should be able to check in on phone occasionally but only for very limited phone posting. Hopefully it won't matter.

havingfitz · Post Post #1036 (isolation #54) » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:30 am

Back from v/la. Will try to get caught up in all my games sometime today.

havingfitz · Post Post #1042 (isolation #55) » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:17 am

This game is dragging. I don't think anyone denies Lincolm is probably town. I've had a town read (or at least no scum read) on the deasvail slot all game iirc so that leaves me with matt and Mew. With what I assume is one scum left...I like town's odds.

VOTE: Matt

havingfitz · Post Post #1045 (isolation #56) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:01 am

Matt...

a) I elaborated on my "town read" on Deasvail (DV) when I said I at least had no scum read on him. I just don't recall anything throughout the game that DV or Deltabacon (DB) have said or done that made me go...."WTF?" While at various times in the game I have had suspicions towards you and Mew (and even N when he was Junpei) and I am confident the last scum is within you or Mew. Also, DV/DB have been considered town iirc by most of the players the entire game. The slot only has 1 vote on it the entire game (by Mew yesterday).

b) I'm voting you over Mew because I had my initial suspicions towards you first combined with the meta I dug up on you. Playing devil's advocate....Mew could easily be scum as well if you look at his vote history and the way Rob was such a fan of his throughout the game. And Mew seemed to have quite the townread on Rob as well.

If we didn't have the presumed luxury of another mislynch I do not know who I would vote. If it were LYLO I would not have my vote on you so quickly and would be looking things over more closely. It really is close between the two of you. You for your early unusual play and meta and Mew for his voting habits and the interactions between he and Rob.

I'd really like to know what Lincolm and Deasvail think. And you too for that matter Matt.

12 posts in 5 days is pretty weak.

Also @Lincolm...do my comments above answer your question to me in Post 1033?

havingfitz · Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:49 pm

havingfitz · Post Post #1052 (isolation #58) » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:36 am

Who don't you want to hammer? Mm? Mm is already on you.

I'll give you some space....

UNVOTE:

havingfitz · Post Post #1057 (isolation #59) » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:05 am

Prod dodge. C'mon people...say something. 6 days left. Still a lot of time but not at the rate people are participating. Looks like Mew is content to stay on Matt and otherwise stay away. That means Lincolm and DeasVail need to make their moves....i.e. contribute (and yes DV...I see your promise of weekend content).

havingfitz · Post Post #1064 (isolation #60) » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:52 am

In post 1062, Cheery Dog wrote:Searching for a Lincolm replacement.

suck.

If Lincolm is in fact out...I just hope his replacement does a good read-through and helps us avoid needing a N5.

havingfitz · Post Post #1078 (isolation #61) » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:54 am

Probably no posting from me today. Busy RL day + plus waiting for replacement to get in...catch up...provide thoughts.

I'm still leaning (heavily) on Matt or Mew. Not seeing DV scum and last slot pretty much confirmed based on, iirc, his claim being confirmed. Unless there is a scum watcher which I doubt.

havingfitz · Post Post #1081 (isolation #62) » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:31 am

Red...how do the interactions you quote above between Rob and Human Destroyer implicate Mew...if at all?

What are your reads on the other players? Can you rank them and perhaps provide a comment or two? A fresh look at the game would be of interest.

havingfitz · Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:23 am

VOTE: Mew

havingfitz · Post Post #1091 (isolation #64) » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:36 am

What Matt (and DV) said.

I was tied up all day yesterday for work and won't have time to dig into this game until Monday at the soonest. I.e. don't expect my re-reads/analysis to happen this weekend.

havingfitz · Post Post #1095 (isolation #65) » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:04 am

Prodded...sorry mod.

Didn't look in here over the weekend (busy with family).
Didn't look in here yesterday (busy at work).
Snowed in today (with family) so no deep digging today.

I promise content tomorrow.

Also mod...might as well let you know now...

I'm v/la from this Thursday afternoon until Monday morning.

havingfitz · Post Post #1098 (isolation #66) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:09 am

OK...starting to do some ISO'ing today. This game is my priority at the moment.

A look at PerV/Ray/Deasvail exchanges with scum first:

No interactions with Breakfast/HD on D1. (null to negative)

In Post 329 Ray call Rob "pretty obv town." (negative to null)

In Post 715 DV says "Suspicion on Rob isn't good at all." (negative to null)

In Post 737 DV says "hesistant to call Rob scum" because of his good D2 play (negative to null)

In Post 777 DV is starting to say he could see Rob as scum (for reasons he doesn't necessarily agree with). (null)

In Post 801 DV asks for people to convince him that Rob is scum. (null....to negative)

I find Post 802 to be an unusual post. Especially from someone who for the most part has had a town read on Rob. DV doesn't put any qualifiers on the statement that he isn't scum-buddies with Rob. Nothing like...IF Rob flips scum. It looks like he knows Rob is going to flip scum and is defending himself in advance.

He goes on several times requesting that people convince him of Rob's guilt and trying to get a wagon going on Mew.

In summary DV's hammer on Rob come across as very reluctant. He really wanted a Mew wagon. It is also interesting to note that while DV stated that if Rob flipped scum it probably meant that Mew wasn't...he still led the way on Mew's mislynch 2 days later.

That's a first cut at DV looking at his posting towards our confirmed scum. I also plan to look at what they had to sy towards him when I get the chance but I wanted to get something going in here if for any other reason just to spur some conversation.

Until I look at how Rob and Breakfast/HD interacted with the DV slot I'm not prepared to say I think he (DV) is more or less likely to be scum. I will say looking him over more closely did open up the possibility for me that he

could

be scum instead of Matt...who I have suspected for much of the game.

Note to all

...my online time is going to be very spotty until Monday morning. I'm going on a roadtrip tomorrow (very v/LA) and the rest of today will in large part be getting ready for it. I'll post as frequently as I can. Next Monday should be back to normal though.

havingfitz · Post Post #1103 (isolation #67) » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:30 pm

In post 1102, projectmatt wrote:Having, I'm still very curious as to what your responses are.

Responses to what?

havingfitz · Post Post #1112 (isolation #68) » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:04 am

OK...back from v/LA. I have a lot of catching up to do in all my games and will try to get to them all asap.

havingfitz · Post Post #1114 (isolation #69) » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:46 am

OK...before my v/LA weekend I did an ISO of DV where he did come across looking a bit suspect. I then felt obligated to look over confirmed scum's intereactions with DV and came up with some interesting observations.

- Breakfast and HD never referred to DV once and only refer to Peregrine and RayFrost once briefly when they cast a bit of doubt on something PereV had said.

- In Post 335 Rob says he thinks Rob is "obvious town" despite not agreeing with him 100%.

- In Post 689 Rob asks DV if he is going to hammer. I suppose he (Rob) could be pushing DV a bit to act whther he (DV) is scum or not. Just seems to stand out a bit in my ISO. Like Rob is trying to tell a buddy to do something.

- In Post 872 and Post 879 Rob seems to be coaching DV a bit.

- In Post 889 Rob states that he has

a hard time consuming the idea of DV-scum

. This is shortly after Mew has voted DV.

In Rob's last post, Post 935, he continues his last day's effort to lynch me while saying DV's case on Mew really doesn't exist. Not sure what to make of this quite frankly. Not sure if he's egging DV on perhaps to hammer him (Rob) or just trying to distance himself a bit. At this point in the game I think it was a safe bet that Rob was going to be the lynch. And DV's reluctant hammer just a few posts/hours after this one seemingly came from nowhere.

In summary...I do think the lack of interest from scum on the DV slot throughout the game...along with some possible prompting from Rob towards DV does shine a bit more suspicion on the slot. I could also see the hammer on Rob as an opportunity to get a little town cred from an outcome that was going to probably happen anyway.

So I'm talking myself into being more confuesed on the subject that I was. Yesterday I assumed if I made it to today and Matt was still around...that he would be my main suspect. Only thing is...if Matt is not scum...scum would be crazy to not bring me and him to LYLO. grrrrr

I'll take a closer look at Matt asap. I've made my suspicions of him pretty clear throughout the game so I probably don't need to expound on those much. I just have a nagging voice in my head saying he bussed the hell out of both his partners to get sufficient town cred to seal the deal if he made it to LYLO. Like he did in another game he won as scum (which I referenced ealier iirc). So Matt is perfectly capable of taking out both his partners for a win. I'll probably just look over how Breakfast/HD and Rob dealt with him throughout the game and see what that turns up.

I'm definitely more on the fence today than I was going into N6.

@DV...you promised some content over a week ago but the closest thing I see to content is in Post 1097 from last Wednesday. And yet you have been very active on the site since that "content." Are you done trying to figure out who you think scum is? Is that all you got?

havingfitz · Post Post #1120 (isolation #70) » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:28 am

OK....so doing the same thing for Matt that I did for DeasVail yesterday (i.e. look at scum's references towards Matt):

In Post 40 Rob says he likes Matt as a counterwagon (

to denis[/i) and votes him (bringing him to a grand total of 2 votes). chkflp and Bub were both at 1 vote as well....plus we were just coming out of RVS really. Not very convincing of a counterwagon.

In Post 54 Rob says he doesn't come away with a good read on Matt....who remains at 2 votes.

In Post 78 Breakfast defends Matt from suspicions raised by Rob...and votes Rob. {If Matt does wind up being scum I am going to bring this post up again as it would be quite funny how incestuous it would be}

In Post 129 Rob says he thinks chkflp and Matt are partners (ala scum v scum)....

In Post 144 Rob explains how he has confirmed his read on Matt (who he is still voting at this point)

Annnd 6 posts later Rob moves to denis.

In Post 175, while his vote is still on denis, Rob says chkflp comes across scummier than Matt did in their exchange.

In Post 239 Rob changes his tune and says Matt is more suspect between he and chkflp. This is a complete 180 from the quote above and Rob's vote is still on denis.

In Post 298 Rob says with the deadline approaching he is going to look at Matt again to see if there is a case. This is while denis is at 3 votes and Matt has none. If deadline is approaching what would a player with no votes matter? Then 10 posts later he drops a vote on chkflp.

In Post 335 Rob reiterates that Matt is a stronger scum read for him than chkflp though his vote is still on chkflp.

In Post 396 Rob votes Matt and brings him to L-4. So not terribly in danger just yet.

In Post 399 Rob encourages everyone to put votes on Matt. This is while the other two wagon leaders are Human Destroyer and Rob himself. And one post later HD votes matt. My head hurts. I'm kind of starting to lean towards scum would not do this much cross bussing.

OK...but then in Post 430 HD unvotes Matt and says he's not an appealing vote anymore and 10 posts later Rob unvotes Matt in favor of HD. fcuk me

And that was it. After day one there is no more mention of Matt by Rob (that I can find at least).

I was all ready to lay a vote down on Deasvail towards the end of this ISO but the last few posts did a turn around on me that has me still uncertain. This is frustratingly close. I'm going to look over the cases each of you have put forward (not just today but at any point over the last few days and see if anything strikes me as convincing or a load of sh;t. It's getting close to the deadline though so I'll probably lay a vote down NLT tomorrow. I'd rather make my mind up one way or the other than have to be forced to do something at deadline. Plus if I vote first I don't have to be the one who decides the game.

havingfitz · Post Post #1126 (isolation #71) » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:36 am

@Matt - re: Post 1121...looking over his ISO and the interactions confirmed scum had with him opened my eyes to at least the possibility that he could be scum. So he went from an under the radar (or PoE) town consideration for me to a candidate. Whereas you coming into today were my clear frontrunner for a suspect for reasons I have explained already. My read through on DV made you not so clear cut a choice and so when I was looking over scum's references to you in my post from yesterday I was starting to get more and more of a feel that you might not be scum (specifically Post 399 had me thinking I might be wrong about you). This was when I was thinking I would be voting DV. Then Post 430 happened followed by Rob unvoting you with not a single other mention (that I can find)...and the town feeling I was getting based on scum's view towards you went back to a big pile of I don't know who the fcuk is scum.

TBH Matt....if we weren't allowed to say a single thing in LYLO and just had to vote based off previous suspicions....I would have voted you the day LYLO began. I'm just having a hard time getting past the nagging voice in my head saying you are pulling another double bus like you did (for the win) in the game I referenced earlier in this game. But also in my head is the question...why would scum-matt take me to LYLO? I don't think he would. That said....I had to give due diligence to looking at DV and that's where I began to second guess my read on you. That coupled with DV's apparent lack of interest in LYLO (though his last post seems to finally show he is making an effort). So yeah....%^&*!

@DV - re: Post 1123...thanks for pointing that out. I hate LYLO and have been burned before where the other two players have cross voted and I was left to decide (and been wrong), so yesterday I had it in my mind that going first eliminated the pressure of screwing up. But as you point out....regardless of when my vote is placed (1, 2, or 3) if it's wrong it's a loss. So yeah....%^&*!

havingfitz · Post Post #1128 (isolation #72) » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:50 am

Matt...not sure why the suspicions I've had towards you for much of the game aren't clear...but Post 861 probably sums it up best. My real issue today is my growing sense of doubt on DV, which I have pointed out.

And thanks for being

that guy.

. Here I thought you would be unlikely to bring me to LYLO when as you point out...Panda was pretty much confirmed town.

havingfitz · Post Post #1130 (isolation #73) » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:05 am

Since we're chatting, here are my thoughts on your last post Matt..

Meta. I do not like it. I typically stay in 3-4 games at any given time because of what I suspect are ADD-related reasons. One game to focus on that draaaaaaaaaaaags and goes to night where I have to wait for 3 days before I can post again just isn't going to cut it. But more than 4 games and I become more useless than any of my detractors could ever accuse me of being. My point is...I do not have the time or patience to do deep digs into other people's meta so I usually do not. What I will do is go back in people's games to try and find distinct, clear cut examples of things that prove them to be liars or bussers. And I'm not calling you a liar. I'm saying for example someone says they have never done this or that or been in this situation or that...etc....and I look to see if they are telling the truth. So in your case I went looking to see if you were one who was prone to bus. In two of your relatively few games as scum...you bussed. And as I have mentioned...in one you bussed both of your team mates. Very nicely done by the way. And of course it makes me rethink my earlier assumption that because of your role in getting HD lynched...you were most likley scum. Are you potentially scum only for the fact that you have bussed before? Of course not. But because you have....you most certainly aren't a given to be town just becuase you helped vote 1...and then another...scum lynched. I would never look for anything beyond that in terms of playstyle...I just don't have the time or patience to do that sort of comparison. I would also say that you reacted pretty strongly to my suspicions towards you. You didn't OMGUS vote me or anything but you definitely came at (aka attacked) me hard.

Not having a vote actively up is something I look at with a grain of suspicion. Especially when it's for an entire gameday. Does it mean someone's scum? No. But I like commitment.

Agreed with your point on bringing up the NK.

As for "paranoia"....unless there is an Innocent Child or some other somehow confirmed role in a game I look at everyone with a degree of suspicion. Everyone. It's just varying degrees of suspicion/"paranoia."

havingfitz · Post Post #1134 (isolation #74) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:08 am

VOTE: projectmatt

havingfitz · Post Post #1137 (isolation #75) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:28 am

havingfitz · Post Post #1140 (isolation #76) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:09 am

I don't care if the scum QT is revealed. Rob can do it. I don't have time atm to give thoughts but I will in a few hours.

havingfitz · Post Post #1142 (isolation #77) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:08 am

OK...game thoughts. Yay!

I thought I was screwed when Rob was lynched and I still had 3 mislynches to go.

I have no idea why I didn't get more attention. Not because I necessarily thought I deserved it but because as the numbers dwindled down POE was bound to rear it's ugly head. Especially on that last day. For DV and Matt to not give me so much as a passing glance was beyond me. On that note...I thought DV picking up on my comment about selecting first so that I wouldn't be responsible for the outcome was a good catch. I thought that slip would get more attention than it did...or at least spark more critical looks my way. Otherwise I felt pretty good in LYLO that scum was going to win. Not so much the previous two days though.

Good job on Lincolm and the 1-shot watcher claim. I can't recall if we believed you or not but I don't think I was really thinking about it N4 when I targetted Empire. You not watching Empire again led the way to scum's win. That along with all the commotion following N1 that saved me from denisp's assinine fakeclaim on me.

For the most part I enjoyed playing with everybody. And even though it seemed like the game had lost all interest from it's participants the last day or two I still had fun with it and

thanks to the mod for putting it together.

P.S. And thanks for the credit (from the dead QT) chkflp

havingfitz · Post Post #1144 (isolation #78) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:15 am

In post 1143, AngryPidgeon wrote:Well played by Fitz. I was only lightly suspicious of him as I stalked the game.

Thanks?