Mini 1407 (Game Over)

[Rob14]

@ MM: i realize that, which is why i'm ok with playing the martyr right now. When i flip, i simply want everyone to realize that rob is the one who painted me as scum

for stopping the lynch on fitz.

When i flip jk, it'll be proven beyond a shadow of doubt that everything i have been saying is true, or at least constructed with town-motivations.

Not only that, but rob's case on me is literally nothing more than, "

he stopped the lynch on fitz for town-cred and to try and get a town pr lynched.

" When i flip, his entire case on me is thrown out the window and he will be revealed to be the scum that he is, when, in actuality, he's doing exactly what he accused me of. Lynching a claimed town PR. Good luck tomorrow, rob. You're gonna need it.

That said, i will strongly consider hammering myself before deadline, if i make it that long.

Show me where I built an entire case on you for those reasons. That's not why I voted you or built a case on you. That's not why you're at L-1. You're pushing a blatant lie at this point.

[Junpei]

*sigh* I have more flip-flops than Old Navy...

Unvote
Vote: Thunderhog

Upon further consideration, the narrative you're pushing makes far too many assumptions. It's plausible, but unlikely.

This is L-1.

How bad is this vote?

Doesn't even include any of the major reasons that Thunderhog is mafia.

Seems like he's trying too hard to have his own reasons because this is awful.

[Master Mew]

I had my vote on him before, I didn't need to manufacture new reasons. You might take my later "unvote" of him as a refutation of those reasons, and then the above vote as a reaction to a new reason.

Or you might just jump on everything I say, without regard for context. Again.

[Cheery Dog]

prodded Bub Bidderskins

[ThunderHog]

Let me ask you this, Rob... If I was scum, and KNEW Denis was town, why would I have stopped the lynch on fitz and simply NOT dropped the hammer vote, using Denis' fake-tracker claim for my reasoning? If I were to do that I simply could have ridden through an easy Day 2, got back to the Night phase nearly instantly without any discussion whatsoever and simply shot another townie during the night... There is literally zero scum-motivation behind anything that I'm doing by stopping fitz' lynch.

Scum would rather be rid of a town PR than an unknown. Denis is a better mislynch for scum than some person with an unknown role to them. Alternatively, Fitz could always be scum. A Thunder-Fitz scum-team is not something I'm willing to rule out.

Here ya go.

[ThunderHog]

Oh, and while i was going through your ISO, this stood out to me.

Erm, ok...

Unvote

Will reread the thread later for partner stuff.

yeah i was reaction-testing. UNVOTE: havingfitz i tracked having but didn't get a result. i'm going to get lynched now but it was worth it

(lynch having when i die)

Why? You still haven't given us any reason why you suspected him. Please do something. Give us a case.

As incredibly stupid as it was, I actually do believe denis that he performed the worst gambit ever. I thought he might be scum in Day 1, but these latest actions are entirely VI.

Now, at the time i simply thought you were prodding for information from an idiot. But, given the biased knowledge that i possess against both you and denis, it kinda looks like coaching now...

@MM: As much as i really don't want to, if i live through this day, mafia will just get one more night as tomorrow will simply be the same day without my flip.

[Rob14]

Let me ask you this, Rob... If I was scum, and KNEW Denis was town, why would I have stopped the lynch on fitz and simply NOT dropped the hammer vote, using Denis' fake-tracker claim for my reasoning? If I were to do that I simply could have ridden through an easy Day 2, got back to the Night phase nearly instantly without any discussion whatsoever and simply shot another townie during the night... There is literally zero scum-motivation behind anything that I'm doing by stopping fitz' lynch.

Scum would rather be rid of a town PR than an unknown. Denis is a better mislynch for scum than some person with an unknown role to them. Alternatively, Fitz could always be scum. A Thunder-Fitz scum-team is not something I'm willing to rule out.

Here ya go.

Me responding to a question from you regarding that situation is not even close to the same thing as my entire case being about that situation. This is such an unbelievable misrep that I don't even think you would buy the crap that you're selling here.

[Lincolm]

I prefer everyone not to hammer first. I'm quiet dizzy with JK's power. (I was lurking try to seek this) I will explain later.

[Lincolm]

@ThunderHog :
2 Questions for you :
- Why you lying about your PR? Why not claim 2-shot JK from beginning?
- Can you tell me your PM message with your own words (don't quote from message)?

[DeasVail]

Ok reading over him, I'll likely be happy with his lynch. Do people actually want me to post what I think is scummy about him or should I not bother?

I've already typed some stuff up as I was thinking it for my own benefit so it wouldn't be a huge burden for me, but I'm not sure if there's much point.

Also, I'm still finishing off his ISO, but I'm thinking I'll likely hammer at some point if no one else does (although Lincolm, I know you don't want a hammer yet, so I'll wait).

[Lincolm]

By the way DV, I know you mod some games, so I prefer ask you this. If jailkeeper jail someone, then cop investigate the jailkeeper's target, do you give cop a result or not?

[Lincolm]

Oh yes, this is what I find. I don't find any case that cop gain result. So... You know... I think Thunder is lying.

[DeasVail]

By the way DV, I know you mod some games, so I prefer ask you this. If jailkeeper jail someone, then cop investigate the jailkeeper's target, do you give cop a result or not?

Most of the time, the cop would get a result.

Sometimes the cop would not get a result, but the Jailkeeper might have a different name in this case to show that it is different.

ThunderHog has also said that his role does not stop the cop from getting a result.

PEdit: I would not do what Voided did there as a Newbie Mod, so I don't think that is a reason to use against ThunderHog.

[DeasVail]

Basically there are two versions of Jailkeeper and I use the one which ThunderHog is claiming to be. I think that is also the most common, but I may be wrong.

[Lincolm]

Fine then. Thanks for the answer. I prefer you post why ThunderHog is scum.

Pretty sorry for this PRs claim, make the game slow like this.

[DeasVail]

This is what I wrote as I read through Thunder's ISO. I'm sorry if it's difficult to understand.

Although I do find him scummy, I'm not sure how likely the JK claim in response to Denis' gambit thing is to come from scum. In another situation it would maybe be a decent towntell, but ThunderHog's posts are just really strange.

Actually doing analysis on denis when he thinks he's been caught out lying just seems excessive and like an attempt to look town. Even calling out Lincolm as a scumbuddy based on one post doesn't match with the walls of analysis he does at other times. And keeping his vote on Denis after Rob's cop result is just hard to understand from either alignment.

I think the attack on projectmatt 543 is fake. It's basically thinking he's scum for saying something bad.

Later:

"To actually go on the record and say that his behavior was "extremely town" is downright insulting and you should be embarrassed."

Vote is still on PMatt. Hmmm...

Suspicion on Rob isn't good at all, especially considering his previous townread and the fact that it comes at a time when it looks like people may suspect him.

Generally too much arguing, not enough scumhunting, 587 is bad especially because I don't think he's really determined reads on players.

602 is too concerned with providing original content. I think town would be less likely to ignore PMatt's points.

He says there has to be at least one mafia in the PR lineup. I don't see much good reason for this.

The reaction test is pretty eh.

"the reason that I didn't unvote right away after said claim was that I really didn't want to believe it as it made me feel angry about Denis forcing me to reveal myself and claim against him."

^Speaks for itself I think.

[DeasVail]

Also, it's unfinished as I was mainly skimming towards the end. I may look more closely tomorrow, but I might not as I'm pretty sure I want to lynch him. We'll see.

[havingfitz]

What are we still waiting for? It seems to be a foregone conclusion that Thunder is the day's lynch. He has had some solid points brought up against him and most people suspect him iirc. What else do we need? I'll hammer at 1200ish EST if no one beats me to it or provides a reason not to.

[denisatp]

sdiojviuerjigvnrgniut5rngjun4tjhgni54untiu54niutn finish him

[Lincolm]

It's quiet hard to understand all of this PR and I prefer to ignore it but I can't.

Well, this is my night kill analyze. I don't think that chkflip got killed was weird if mafia have mafia roleblocker. If they don't have, they will kill Denis (or Denis is scum). Well, chkflip's ISO really like a PR try to hide his PR with his VT claim and Denis really like VT fake-claiming (if Denis is town) in day 1. Other case, maybe mafia tried to kill Denis but failed, and the vig or SK killed chkflip. But vig killed chkflip? Really, I can't understand why. If someone vig chkflip, it must be someone who suspected chkflip like Junpei and Rob.

I try to assume there is 1 scum here, maybe more, maybe all of town also... (You can assume I'm as mafia 1-shot watcher too)

I'm quiet wary with Denis. If he is scum, he is really try to mislynch someone who they thought not easy to lynch first because he already claimed as tracker, then tomorrow he got lynched, but mafia get 2 kill. Worth it I think. Well, it means Denis is Mafia Godfather if Rob is not SK or Vig.

I'm also wary with Rob. If he is scum, he try to kill Denis because he is mafia who don't have roleblocker in his team or SK, but Denis jailed.

The most scummy of course ThunderHog as mafia roleblocker. His reason of jailing Denis very very unreasonable. Also he only assume town vig, oh wow, he know there is town vig, but I don't think this setup will balanced if there is town vig, tracker, 1-shot cop, 1-shot watcher vs mafia goon, mafia roleblocker, mafia PR?... So, If ThunderHog is Jailkeeper, I don't think it is town vig. And the most I likely to know, he is lying about his PR. He was claiming JK first, not X-shot JK, the most reasonable reason, he try to adjust the other PR. I agree to lynch him because overall he is weird.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Overall, I think there is SK here and ThunderHog is mafia. Most likely gut reason with that analyze. About SK, let see day 3. I hope I wrong.

@Havingfitz : You know what happen if ThunderHog appear as scum? You will become our top suspect list.

P-Edit : I'm still need more analyze. Also, I hate mislynch.

[Rob14]

If someone vig chkflip, it must be someone who suspected chkflip like Junpei and Rob.

For the record, Lincolm, it is extremely dangerous to speculate in-thread about unclaimed town PRs. It gives the scum information that can be used to increase their chances of killing off all the PRs that we have.

Either way, with only one kill last night, I doubt a vig exists. I also doubt an SK exists for the same reason (and am curious where that came from in your analysis). Only time will tell, I suppose.

[ThunderHog]

If you say so, rob.

@ Lincolm: i waited to claim x-shot to see if there was a pattern there - to see if anyone else did. Please take notoce that denis hasn't claimed x-shot either... As for your second question, no i can't answer that.

[Lincolm]

@Rob :
Well, I guess you're correct. Won't do it again, except it is necessary.

Because I assume ThunderHog is a jailkeeper and chkflip got killed really weird for me, so I come with a SK analyze.

I hope I wrong then. (Well, just worst case there is SK here, to make all of you prepare for that, maybe the SK will no kill this night also because of this)

*sigh*
@ThunderHog : For first, I just can say something wrong with your x-shot claim. The pattern will work also if you're killed or lynched. Everybody will know your role. So, "I claiming x-shot later" is weird.
For second, why not? I already ask mod that player can paraphrase it.

[havingfitz]

I got tied up with other things and missed my 1200 EST deadline.

I think this is the hammer:

VOTE: ThunderHog

[Lincolm]

Well... It is 14:27 EST time if i'm not wrong. Quiet not 12:00ish.

I hope we lynch right person. *sigh*

Ah ya Fitz, you not answer this question.

@Havingfitz : You know what happen if ThunderHog appear as scum? You will become our top suspect list.