Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[ChannelDelibird]

Hello! I'll get read up and see what needs lynchin'.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm reading up at the moment - just wanted to apologise on behalf of my predecessor for being a dick. I am not impressed.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mod:

Please update the OP, I just spent 40 pages trying to read Elyse and then found out that she got nightkilled.

(Nearly there, guys, as you can tell I'm read up to the start of today.)

[ChannelDelibird]

Done!

Just about to start my shift at work so going to post a summary of my reads and then I'll go into a little more detail where appropriate/necessary shortly after.

Obvtown:

SunnyDays. I am outright declaring that an impossible slip to manufacture as scum.

Very town:

Baezu, Grimgroove

Conflicted:

Slandaar, Lucky, Miss Stranger (in descending order of who's stuck out to be as both possible alignments most strongly)

Scum:

Shamrock, Ztife

I'm a VT.

VOTE: Ztife

[ChannelDelibird]

I've seen people calling him obvtown too and I'm not really sure why that would be the case. If it's for his conduct around the Peregrine lynch, I would object to that making him obvtown - Peregrine's role caused obvious conflict with Elyse's and, while I think the lynch was handled correctly, I don't think scum are less likely to spot the conflict and exploit it using perfectly sensible arguments. That's why town shouldn't fakeclaim; I expected better from Peregrine. So that much is null.

My reads list above was compiled by picking out posts I found indicative of town or scum as they came up, adjusted for how sure or unsure I was in my read of the post, and I got a couple each way from Slandaar with a reasonable level of uncertainty attached to each one.

I found things like this (largely sensible reads & good confidence) and this (cottoned on to Sunny's claim quickly) as indicative of town but this ("Peregrine was on every wagon" struck me as a surprisingly oversimplistic way to call someone scum that didn't sit right, regardless of how he dealt with the claim later) and this (doesn't seem to consider all the possibilities of behaviour from Elyse's POV, which I feel like Slandaar would likely do) as suggestive of scum. So I'm a bit torn. I think the scum posts slightly outweight the town at this point but I am much, much, much more interested in Ztife and Shamrock. Again, more on them later.

[ChannelDelibird]

this (doesn't seem to consider all the possibilities of behaviour from Elyse's POV, which I feel like Slandaar would likely do) as suggestive of scum.

What do you mean by this? What possibilities is he not considering? Why is this significant?

First of all - I meant Peregrine here when I said Elyse.

Slandaar seemed to outright dismiss the possibility of Peregrine choosing to protect someone other than the claimed cop, even after Peregrine pointed out that he suspected that the scum might target another player as they might reasonably expect Baezu to be protected on Night 1. This is eccentric behaviour, perhaps, but not completely ridiculous; I feel like Slandaar is sensible and experienced enough to accept that this would be a plausible action for Peregrine to take in that position. It was Peregrine's doctor claim not lining up with Elyse's role that made him the right lynch, not his claimed target. This is significant because it could point to Slandaar deliberately overselling his point in order to secure a mislynch on Peregrine, whose doctor claim he would presumably have very little reason to disbelieve as scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm not arguing that it makes sense, or that I would do it, but that it is not out of the bounds of plausibility for someone to decide to do it (I'm almost certain, without going back to check, that I've seen it done before). His motivations as a bodyguard are irrelevant in this case as you were only judging him on his doctor claim at the time. I think your verbose certainty in 1090 makes you look a bit townier and, as I say, I'm conflicted anyway, so it's not particularly pressing. I've a day off today so stuff on Ztife and Shamrock incoming.

Were you a neighbour from the start of the game or were you neighbourised at some point?

[ChannelDelibird]

I was aware of that; still had to ask the question. By that I take it that all three of you were in the neighbourhood from the start.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm voting Ztife, so let's start there. Things I didn't like:

Coming in quite a long time, posts-wise, after everyone had pretty much got the message across that BP's desire to no-lynch wouldn't help anyone, Ztife goes to great lengths to explain it all over again. That in itself strikes me as contribution for contribution's sake, rather than what is actually most helpful to pursue for the town at the time - but then after going through what seems like a necessarily neutral explanation of theory, Ztife then twists it into part of a reason to vote for BP. That seems incongruous.

Focusing all of his/her early play on one read. Singling out one issue on which they think that they can talk confidently suits scum because it minimises exposure while making them look invested.

Talking here about Sunny's "crap claims" and asking if Peregrine "buys it" are slightly suggestive of Ztife not having realised what was happening with the claim but trying to look like (s)he was using it to inform scumhunting anyway.

Plays the "deadline's close, guys!" card way too early as a reason to promote Elyse/Nachomamma as the day's defining dilemma.

This feels like a real kicker to me: Says in one line "we know there is a RB". In the next paragraph, treats it as a hypothetical. I think this is someone slipping up while trying to act like they have the same amount of knowledge as everyone else.

Still thinks SunnyDays is scum. I literally cannot understand how anyone could continue to be considering this as a possibility.

[ChannelDelibird]

Yes, I don't like that Ztife has has me as a perpetual scumread but is doing nothing really, or at least earlier (I mean, she doesn't really seem that motivated to get me lynched at the end of the day) to convince everyone they're wrong. I don't know, I just feel like if someone REALLY thought someone was scum, and that someone was in a position where they were a universal townread, they would try harder to change that, and faster.

Yup.

Especially

when coming under suspicion today.

[ChannelDelibird]

Partial massclaim is a terrible idea. We should finish it, then lynch Ztife.

[ChannelDelibird]

This game is slower than can be explained only by MissStranger's continued need for a replacement.

To contribute to that:

Mod:

I'm going to be V/LA from 3-8 August due to the Scumdon meet. Not clear exactly how much internet access we'll have but I will try to check in when I can.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm back from Scumdon so I'll get caught up today if possible (couple of other things vying for my attention after a week more or less without internet). Pretty sure we should be lynching Shamrock today; I'll go into why when next possible.

[ChannelDelibird]

Ack, been exceptionally busy ever since I got back from Scumdon. Working on it today.

[ChannelDelibird]

So many apologies for being absent. I see deadline is soon - I'll get read up ASAP.

In the meantime, VOTE: Shamrock because that's almost certainly where I'll end up. I'm not on the computer where my notes are saved at the moment but I'll go back through and try to find the things I found important.

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, wow. Well done, MattP. I kind of agree with you that it feels a little bit weird faking newbieness as scum but I think the same goes for town, tbh, and it's hard to know where the line should be drawn. I know your intentions weren't bad so it's fine and you played it excellently. V/LA matching up on alts is one of those things that I think you notice and worry about when you do it but that nobody else actually really sees, having experienced it myself. I would never have guessed, I don't think!

I'm really sorry that I slipped out of activity here and got lynched - in a really busy summer, this just got a bit lost. Apologies.

[ChannelDelibird]

Wasn't me. That's a notscience and Bert hydra, says the sig.

But if it is considered wrong to pretend to be a newb scum it should be considered equally as wrong to pretend to be newb town.

I think this is the source of any discomfort for me. I like the idea of being able to alt up and play without people having prior expectations of you but I think actually explicitly faking newbieness may be a problem.