Mini 1486: Fruit Basket Mafia (Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

will probably catch up later tonight

[zMuffinMan]

i haven't started. i'm up to the part where you claimed no cults. i'll be back in a couple hours to do some reading though.

[zMuffinMan]

hm. i don't have any strong scumreads yet (p6) but i have most of dj's scum list as town (minus desperado). i imagine it's going to be fun arguing with slandaar about this.

[zMuffinMan]

if they're in line with your own thoughts, then they are your thoughts, too. what are your thoughts?

[zMuffinMan]

no. almost done, though. i still don't have any strong scum reads, just a bunch of town reads i'm reasonably confident about.

[zMuffinMan]

hm. i have town reads on everyone outside of desperado and don_johnson's slot. so either i've gone wrong somewhere, or i'm brilliant.

gonna try this for now.

Vote: Desperado

i'll be back in roughly 6 hours and i might elaborate on some of these reads.

[zMuffinMan]

hm. i'll get to it in a moment and start bringing up quotes and stuff. the short version is that i was looking closely at asp/lucky interactions when i read through the thread, and have reasons to suspect everyone else in the game is town (or at least not scum with asp/lucky). desperado is the exception, mostly because i think the timing of his vote and the way he pushed it looked like a bus.

more when i can be bothered pulling up quotes, probably in the next hour or so.

[zMuffinMan]

the thing is, when you voted him and 'called other people out', there were already various people voicing support for the lynch. thus i think you saw a sinking ship, took the opportunity to get on it and pretend you were town for doing it. either that or it's massively coincidental. but like i said, i'll bring up quotes shortly to show why i think this.

[zMuffinMan]

not a town read. poe. i'll start bringing up the quotes. i noted most of them so it shouldn't be too difficult.

[zMuffinMan]

i have elyse listed as a town read from p2, mostly because of the way she was pushing the formerfish wagon and how it came across as town.

i have formerfish and pdmedic listed as slight town for 47. nothing special here but the way ASP talks about both doesn't look like scum-scum interaction here, and given ASP didn't seem like the strongest player, it gave me a slight town lean on these two.

kid a's 56 and ASP's 59 gave me a slight town lean on kid a, again because of how ASP talks about him and the mention of elyse in 56 looked townish. i'm not sure what to make of the mention of uberkang in 59.

stubbs' 71 gave me mild town vibes, mostly because the tone of the questioning and the honesty in saying "just a gut feeling" read town.

i'm not entirely sure what to make of GG's 100 mostly because the mention of ASP seems out of place. i had it listed as possible scum-scum interaction and it was my only note on GG.

UK's 104 was where i started developing a town read on him. not only for the way he talked about ASP here (which didn't really look like scum-scum interaction), but also because the whole post just looks town. i also have his 138 listed as a townish post. same reason, basically. the way he's scum hunting and the way he's coming about his reads looks genuine.

BVD's 155 made me lean town on them, mostly for the way they talk about ASP here. didn't really look like something they'd say about their scum buddy.

Slandaar's 166 looked town, not only for the way he talks about ASP here but for the general tone of the post.

now here's what happens after Slandaar's #166.

Slandaar's most recent post is excellent, and I'm going to go ahead and say it's enough for me to consider him town right now. Still looking at Elyse and Kid A as scum suspects right now. Also, got a new laptop so posting might be a bit easier, but as of right now it's 12:30 and I've got my first day of classes in college tomorrow, so I'm going to bed. Will try to update with better quality soon.

His most recent post is excellent? I agree but coming from you that's strange since he calls you out as scum with good reasoning.

His most recent post is excellent? I agree but coming from you that's strange since he calls you out as scum with good reasoning.

I noticed this as well which seems odd to me. If someone was flat out calling me scum I don't think I would congratulate them on their post being excellent. Haven't decided how to take this yet.

Slandaar's most recent post is excellent, and I'm going to go ahead and say it's enough for me to consider him town right now. Still looking at Elyse and Kid A as scum suspects right now. Also, got a new laptop so posting might be a bit easier, but as of right now it's 12:30 and I've got my first day of classes in college tomorrow, so I'm going to bed. Will try to update with better quality soon.

Oh dear. Seconding Elyse here. This is so wrong; if you consider Slandaar's posting excellent, then are you agreeing with his reasoning and thus admitting you are scum? You don't address anything he's said against you at all, thus I can only conclude that this is the case!

Also, if Slandaar's post is excellent and you therefore agree with his reasoning, then how can you say Kid A and Elyse are your scum suspects when Slandaar has them pegged as town?

This is not making any sense at all.

Also, Slandaar, looking forward to your further summary/reads up till current. Are the reads you posted in #166 based only on what you've covered thus far, or are they influenced by later events too?

Finally paging Gee Gee - where you at? Hoping you pop your heads in here soon and give us your perspective. About the only thing I know about you is that you had a townish read on ASP. Can you give us more than that now?

so ASP has 3 votes at this point, and three other people calling him scum, with no telling how many of the people who hadn't posted might have thought ASP's 171 was scummy. what struck me as really odd here is that with no prior mention of a read on ASP, 190 felt really off.

Unvote
Vote: Simple Plan

Not sure why everyone is content to call out how bad Simple's reaction to Slandaar's post was without voting it.

yeah, ASP's 171 was bad and that was acknowledged by others, but with no prior mention of a scum read on ASP, despite others giving decent reasons to vote ASP prior to 171, this seemed to come out of nowhere. my theory here is that desp saw the votes already on ASP, saw the support for the ASP lynch starting to develop, and jumped on a sinking ship for all the town cred it was worth, being sure to "call out" people who weren't voting ASP. like i said, either this is a major coincidence that i'm reading too deeply into, or this is a well-timed bus.

moving on i have elyse's 192 listed as a town post. the reasoning here looked genuine.

i have 198 listed as giving me slight town vibes for formerfish for the reconsideration of his read on elyse coming across as somewhat genuine. the ASP vote and reasoning was kind of meh since he didn't mention it when he posted earlier and looking back over it now, this may also have been a bus vote.

213 from desperado looked strange to me. mostly because i can't figure out why he felt the need to post this. the way it's written just looks odd. 226/228 from desp are two other rather odd-looking posts, and the confidence here doesn't really come across as town confidence.

BVD's 217 and 219 looked town, for the way they talk about ASP here and how genuine it looked.

leaning town on slandaar, pdmedic and formerfish from lucky2u's 224

229-234 from slandaar looked town. mostly because i don't see scum-slandaar going "durr im gonna bus my teammate and then jump off at the last second and push another lynch". i also think the reasoning here and suspicion of formerfish looked genuine.

mnemonic's 254 looked townish. 268 by stubbs was townish but nothing strong here. 271 during twilight by UK came across as genuine, didn't really look like scum-scum interaction. and the response from lucky in #272 followed by UK's #273 reinforces this.

finally, elyse's 275 looked genuine, followed by lucky's 276 to reinforce this.

i stopped taking notes after d1 but there were some d2 posts from mnemonic, BVD and stubbs that made me feel a bit stronger about them being town.

so yeah. here's my tl;dr wall for my thoughts on the game so far. will go back over d2 some time later and bring up the quotes that i think are relevant.

[zMuffinMan]

even if the amished tell was a reliable tell, that wasn't even the amished tell.

the problem isn't that you were confident, but that you showed nothing that suggested you could be wrong. show me similar confidence in any push you've done today in comparison and i'll admit that this confidence isn't strange. the confidence you were showing wasn't the usual town confidence in thinking someone is scum, it was the cheeky "lol i'm bussing my partner" confidence.

and yeah, most of my reads are based on interactions with ASP. so what? calling reads "subjective" as though your interpretations of posts are somehow objective seems rather strange. even if my reads weren't based on interactions, they'd still be subjective reads based on my interpretations, no?

[zMuffinMan]

Going back to my original wagon analysis, Uber and Alex/muffin fit as a team as well.

That seems pretty lazy to me, considering how subjective something like "fit as a team" is.

[zMuffinMan]

oh, shit, it's not subjective when you do it, is it?

[zMuffinMan]

btw, what do you make of UK thinking there's only two scum in this game?

and who do you think is scum outside of UK and me? (because at least one of these isn't scum)

The difference is that I arrived at my reads on you and Kang independently

what is your read on me based on?

You've committed to nothing and are free to change your opinion at basically any time.

i would be free to change any of my reads at any time regardless of what i lean town on. either you think leaning town is itself scummy, or you don't.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, HAHAHA, I just went back and checked why you think I fit as scum with ASP.

291

yeah, go ahead and tell me how you arrived at this independently of ASP's interactions.

[zMuffinMan]

you're either scum or the biggest hypocrite i've ever seen.

[zMuffinMan]

ok. we had a scum lynch day one and no nk.

if you're confident enough that you're not going to look at the possibility that anyone is scum outside of me and UK, then are you willing to 1v1 me?

[zMuffinMan]

I'm talking about the specific way you've drawn your reads.

my reads are what they are. you seriously underestimate my scum play if you think i couldn't make up some reasons for finding people scummy. the reason they're mostly based on interactions is because that's how i scum hunt when i replace into a game with flipped scum. not all the reads were based on interaction, and i cited a fair few posts that i thought were independently town looking even apart from the ASP stuff, so the idea that they're almost all based on interactions is false.

10v3 start is pretty standard, so why should I have a third scum read again?

because i'm not scum, and since you've stated you're completely unwilling to give scum reads outside of uk and me (no i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said this), you shouldn't have a problem with being held accountable if you somehow manage to get me lynched.

[zMuffinMan]

in fact, you should be relishing this opportunity because if you actually believe i'm scum, you can only benefit from taking me up on this 1v1. so why not?

[zMuffinMan]

and if you aren't confident enough to take me up on the 1v1, then give me at least one scum read outside of UK and me.

[zMuffinMan]

You asked me who was scum outside of the two of you and right now my answer is "no one."

how is that different to what i said? "you're completely unwilling to give scum reads outside of uk and me."

[zMuffinMan]

i'm asking you to tell me who you're going to call scum if you manage to get me lynched and why you're not considering the possibility you could be wrong.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm town

But I don't see town goading me into a 1v1 like that.

and you see scum doing this? elaborate.

PS: if i were actually scum, you wouldn't think i was scum. just sayin'

[zMuffinMan]

that makes no sense though, because i'd have to be confident that i would not be the first lynched in this 1v1, and i'd have to be confident i'd not look bad from the 1v1.

so no, it doesn't make a lot of sense from a scum perspective.

[zMuffinMan]

i'd like to know who you think is scum. mainly so i know who not to lynch today.

[zMuffinMan]

yes i have. you got yourself modkilled D1 of NY142. although i wasn't playing in that on this account.

dj, maybe formerfish, maybe mnem, outside chance of uberkang.

[zMuffinMan]

does anyone actually believe don_johnson didn't check for flips before reading the thread? or even that he just didn't read the most recent mod post?

[zMuffinMan]

ps: interested in hearing dj's rationalisation for how the "2 scum" thing makes UK scum.

hey desp,

why don't you give your opinion on dj's catchup? if you call it town-looking, then i know my vote is in the right place.

[zMuffinMan]

2 scum is an odd thing for someone to think in a game this size imo.

that is precisely why it seems more likely to be a townslip than a scumslip, if anything. though i suppose you could question whether it was fake. or i suppose you could suggest he's a traitor or something. those seem like the only two sensible options.

I hit the spoilers on the front page and it said papaya was dead.

i suppose you didn't read the flavour, then

not sure which mod post you are referring to. but whatevz. you seem awfully interested in me.

the mod post directly after your first post (where you asked for someone to catch you up on what's happened) and directly before your second post (where you said you'd catch up in the morning)... i have a hard time imagining a scenario where you missed this post.

and yeah, i think you could be scum so i'm interested in you.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm starting to think you genuinely might not have realised ASP was dead. it doesn't make me feel better about the stuff you've been saying.

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, you spent the entire day arguing with two town players, calling them scum, distracting from the game and then got yourself modkilled. it's memorable as (one of) the least enjoyable D1s i've ever played.

when you say, "the rest of it looks fine," what are you referring to? because i didn't like any of 453.

[zMuffinMan]

you are the one that didn't take it as a joke. you said i had never played with you before as town. i pointed out i have. that is the only relevance it has here. durr.

[zMuffinMan]

me: your scum reads are probably town
slandaar: you haven't played with me as town before
me: yes i have, in NY142
slandaar: that game was 2 years ago. what happened in it?
me: you argued with town players and got yourself modkilled
slandaar: why are you bringing it up?
me: i was pointing out you're wrong.

i'm not going to explain jokes. they either go over your head or they don't, it doesn't matter to me whether you take them seriously or not.

[zMuffinMan]

Instead of sitting there doing nothing productive.

is the irony here intentional?

who do you think is scum, mnem?

was there any interaction with ASP/mnemonic?

why don't

you

check for yourself? i had the interactions between them as minor town when i first read the thread but when i went back over them i was more null on it.

form your own opinion.

[zMuffinMan]

never said I wasn't going to.

when is it going to happen?

If you pissed your pants once in third grade would it be right for you to be considered a frequent pants pisser?

i'm not actually drawing any conclusions about slandaar in this game from the discussion, and although i'll always remember slandaar as a pants pisser, i don't

actually

believe it has any bearing on this game.

As for who is scum, I like the Slaandar vote right now.

do you think slandaar is the only scum left? who else do you think is scum? who would be scum if slandaar is town?

[zMuffinMan]

it's funny. i don't think you're scum, just really paranoid and really wrong.

who do you think is scum if slandaar is town?

[zMuffinMan]

well, technically it

was

slandaar that got ASP lynched, if you factor in that the response from ASP to Slandaar's post was a catalyst in people being suspicious of ASP. slandaar himself not so much, but i don't think he's scum. the ASP interactions don't look like bussing.

[zMuffinMan]

hm. i try not to read too much into a player like mnem saying something like that. if it were any other player, i'd probably agree, but i'm not entirely sure he was playing dumb with that.

[zMuffinMan]

I decided long ago this is who is being lynched today

except bvd is probably town.

Yesterday they didn't do anything during ASP lynch I gave them the opportunity to vote fish which they failed to take instead sitting on Kid which is laughable.

this actually has a lot to do with why i think buffy is town. the way they talked about the ASP wagon, even after the point where it was basically agreed upon by everyone in the game that ASP was scum, did not read like scum talking about their buddy. i talked about this a little in the massive post i made where i analysed the interactions between ASP and other players.

what do you think of those interactions?

Lynch Muffin tomorrow. Hes just being a scumbag constantly trying to discredit me. If you look at his posts from this POV its very obvious.

i'm not trying to discredit you, you discredit yourself. but yeah, sure, even if i

were

trying to discredit you, what of it?

i know you're at least 50% wrong in your suspicions, and i think you could be 100% wrong.

[zMuffinMan]

if he did scumslip then lynching him is a win

and if he didn't then it gets us nowhere because that's an easy reason for scum to hop on a mislynch.

[zMuffinMan]

as a side note, desp suggesting that UK and I are a team shows some cognitive dissonance unless he believes that UK was simply faking when he thought there were only two scum in this game.

[zMuffinMan]

@Mod,

What timezone is the deadline? Can you include a countdown timer in the votecounts?

[zMuffinMan]

Buffy VS Dracula - 2 (Elyse, Slandaar)
MnemonicDevice - 2 (Buffy VS Dracula, FormerFish)
Desperado - 2 (zMuffinMan, Kid A)
don_johnson - 1 (UberKang)
Slandaar - 1 (mnemonicdevice)
zMuffinMan - 1 (Desperado)

Not Voting: don_johnson, StubbsKVM, Viera Assassin

Desperado Aug 14, 08:04am Sep 14, 04:27pm 1 day 7 hours 53
Formerfish Aug 14, 04:54pm Sep 14, 02:53pm 1 day 9 hours 29
Elyse Aug 14, 03:28am Sep 13, 01:29pm 2 days 10 hours 61
StubbsKVM Aug 14, 06:30pm Sep 13, 05:28am 2 days 18 hours 36
Viera Assassin Sep 07, 03:22am Sep 07, 03:11pm 8 days 9 hours

this is actually pathetic given how close to the deadline it is.

[zMuffinMan]

well, apparently you think i'm scum, so why do you care what i'm doing?

if you take your head out of your ass and tell me why you think you're right and i'm wrong, we can have a discussion about it.

or you can continue being deliberately uncooperative and i'll ignore you.

[zMuffinMan]

What?

people are suggesting that UK is scum because the "two scum" thing is a scum slip. following this, if UK is scum, he's the only scum remaining, or he faked it.

in order for desperado to believe that i'm scum with UK, he must believe that UK is faking it, or it makes no sense.

Why include people below the prod times?

because there's three days to the deadline and people shouldn't be getting anywhere near the prod time at this point. it's anti-town.

[zMuffinMan]

well you clearly don't agree with me since i don't think bvd is scum.

[zMuffinMan]

so do you think he faked it for some sort of town cred or something? what are your thoughts on it?

[zMuffinMan]

i'm slowly parsing the latest posts right now, but dj's vote on bvd is the 4th vote, so desp's #530 is wrong.

[zMuffinMan]

Why are you so interested in it?

i'm interested in

your thoughts

on it because the three options i see are that he's scum faking it for some reason, or he's scum who slipped, or he's town who derped. in the first option, i'd assume you have some reason you think he's faking it (you claim WIFOM apparently). in the second and third options, it makes no sense to think i'm scum with him. this may be totally irrelevant now though because you're apparently changed your mind about it with the dj vote.

And when he flips scum muffin and buffy are confirmed town.

i can somewhat understand the bvd thing, but how does what dj said in any way relate to me?

[zMuffinMan]

scummy players can post townie things and townie players can post scummy things, but when a player actually does something scummy, that should overrule what they are posting.

i don't see the inherent scumminess in what bvd did. why is it scummy as opposed to town being wrong, and how do you tell the difference if you're just looking at actions, not words?

just because I would be surprised if they flip scum, does not make them innocent.

it does, however, make your vote bad.

---

hey i found a thing

what are your thoughts on it?

---

i disagree with most of the interpretations and conclusions in #537.

the thing is, i'm looking at it in the context of what was happening at the time and struggling to see how any of what bvd was saying/doing points to bvd scum.

at the point bvd was talking about formerfish vs ASP, ASP was pretty much a guaranteed lynch. i didn't see typical behaviour i'd expect from scum who sees their buddy at L-1. the talk of formerfish never really felt like an attempt to derail the ASP wagon, it felt like honest thoughts on formerfish. furthermore, if it

was

an attempt to derail the ASP wagon, then it makes no sense for bvd to be voting kid A. . .

and i didn't see the sort of distancing from ASP i'd expect when scum sees their buddy suspected by virtually the entire game. it was stubborn adherence to their previous reads, there was no flip-flopping appeasing the crowd sort of thing.

the conversation with kid A looked fairly typical of what i'd expect from town-bvd interacting with someone they think is scum (kid A at the time). especially where bvd points out that, given what kid A was saying, he'd be better off voting them.

^^ can this be proven? anywhere? cause I didn't really see that.

it was written in one of the things you quoted. here:

I'm not voting for ASP because that would be a hammer, much as Drac would like to pound his head in.

[zMuffinMan]

@peabody,

i agree that mnem's posts as of late have been a bit off (and would probably be willing to vote him at this point as a compromise), but the read progression on slandaar came from the ISO he did in 369. do you think mnem is the type of player who would attack slandaar like this as scum, when slandaar isn't really under any strong suspicion? this is kind of making me lean town on mnem when i would otherwise probably be leaning scum on him at this point.

his case is somewhat terrible, and the lack of pushing is strange, but i think the lack of pushing is more a playstyle thing than an alignment thing.

[zMuffinMan]

if buffy is town, who would you think is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

I think the most protown thing anyone can do is pretend Slandaar isn't in this game. I'm going to do this from now on.

[zMuffinMan]

because i'm

not

voting mnem? durrrr

if you're asking what the difference is between me having scum reads that i want lynched but being willing to compromise and dj not pushing any scum reads and instead going straight for a lynch which he was (prior to the two recent walls) just doing as a compromise, then you truly are a moron who i'm going to ignore.

i tried reaching out to you, you're either pretending to be stupid, you are stupid, or you're scum. at this point i'm thinking the second option is the most plausible.

[zMuffinMan]

so they are town because scum would bus or try to save their buddy?

i never make arguments about actions being 100% town or 100% scum, i only assess likelihood, and the likelihood of scum interacting in the way bvd did at the end of D1 is far less than the likelihood of town doing that.

they're not town because scum would bus or try to save their buddy, they're more likely town because scum are more likely to bus or try to save their buddy. there is a real reason to assume this, because ASP was a sinking ship with virtually no hope of surviving D1 after so many people latched on to his response to your post. the way bvd interacted with ASP at the end of the D1 is more indicative of town than scum knowing their buddy was about to be lynched. but that's not even

why

i think they're more likely town than scum, i was simply responding to dj's points about bvd's actions.

well we look at everything else and we can see they are scum.

you say, "look at everything else," and then point to one comment from them they made on page three and call them scum for it.

that is... literally your entire argument.

i don't need to discredit you, you discredit yourself.

and let me guess, if you manage to get bvd lynched today and they flip town, i'm

still

scum for magical reasons.

[zMuffinMan]

my vote isn't "bad"

i am talking about when you put down your vote, prior to the walls, and the reason you gave for it.

if you don't think it was bad, then what do you make of desp's vote on you?

the wagon was losing steam at that point.

no, it really wasn't. there were people off the wagon who were voicing the opinion that ASP was scum without voting (including UK, who was among the first to call ASP's response to Slandaar scummy), and if the wagon was losing steam, it wouldn't have remained at L-1 even after Slandaar unvoted.

[zMuffinMan]

oh, i cannot wait to see the bullshit slandaar tries to spin about why i'm still scum after this.

[zMuffinMan]

I'll channel Town Leader Slandaar for a moment, since he's not around -

Well, obviously either Peabody is lying scum with muffin and BVD, or BVD is a godfather and muffin is scum with BVD. I'm not infallible, but I'm right anyway and town should listen to me because I know what I'm talking about. I have decided that BVD is the lynch today, and no cop innocent is going to convince me otherwise.

And look at muffin being obvscum, discrediting my case on obvscum BVD. What is wrong with this town? Why are they not seeing how correct I am in every way. Look at the psychology of his posts. They are scum posts, for sure.

I caught scum day one, guys. I know what I'm doing. We only lynched ASP because I did all the hard work in getting him lynched.

Bow down to me, peasants, and follow my every whim. I will lead you all to victory.

[zMuffinMan]

Peabody is UK.

[zMuffinMan]

muffin: do you think BvD could be gf? gf/rolecop seems pretty strong. or no?

it depends on town power.

no kill N1 indicates either doc or some sort of roleblocking role (JK/town roleblocker i guess), assuming scum tried to kill (which i think is more likely than not). i'm leaning towards the former rather than the latter. so yeah, if we're looking at a setup with a cop+doc+whatever other PRs in a small game like this, i don't know why rolecop/godfather would be unlikely. i'm not good with balance though, so whatever.

do i think BVD is a godfather? no. i was channeling Town Leader Slandaar when i wrote that post. it's a possibility, i guess, but it's not something i'm considering at this juncture, especially given i have a town read on BVD.

[zMuffinMan]

no. it's dumb to lynch BVD today. it boggles my mind that you think the most likely scenarios are that BVD is either a godfather or scum with Peabody.

it's funny because i actually think what you just posted is too scummy to be a scum post.

[zMuffinMan]

scummy would be trying to lynch the cop.

no, that would just be downright stupid.

i'm just trusting my reads. like I said, we get another investigation AND confirm the cop claim AND get rid of the scummiest player in case of a gf being present. its win win.

no it's not win/win. let's say you get your way, we lynch BVD, they flip town, and your next "scummiest" candidate gets investigated as inno. do you then do the absurdly stupid and continue lynching innos because of the possibility of a godfather?

that sounds like an abominably dumb plan. dealing with the possibility of a godfather at a later juncture makes so much more sense.

[zMuffinMan]

considering my top two lynch candidates just tied themselves together almost irrevocably

hint: this only makes peabody more likely town, and means the most likely scenario is that

your reads are wrong

. at the very least, you're 50% wrong in assuming UK and BVD are scum, and extremely likely to be 100% wrong.

tell me who your scum candidates are if BVD is town.

[zMuffinMan]

also, I think its more likely Peabody is town and BvD is gf, than it is likely they are both scum.

OK. then your reason for voting BVD are absurd.

when you first voted BVD, you said you didn't even think BVD was scum (or at least that you wouldn't be at all surprised at a BVD town flip).

now you're somehow convinced that BVD is most likely scum.

that's... downright fucking stupid. there are no other words for this.

and the sad thing is, i actually think this sort of stupid paranoia points to you being town.

[zMuffinMan]

its not stupid, but I like how you try to discredit me

no fucking shit i'm trying to discredit you. you're pushing a lynch on a cop inno because you think that between you being wrong and bvd being a godfather, you the the latter is the more likely scenario. and you think this for absurd reasons.

[zMuffinMan]

it's not ad hom if i've already addressed why your arguments for bvd being scum are weak at best. it's just me being insulting after i've already addressed why your arguments are weak at best.

i'm not saying you're stupid, i'm saying the reasons you've given for wanting bvd lynched are stupid. if you want to take it personally, i don't really care.

i will probably replace out if bvd is lynched today, regardless of their flip. a town flip will just make me rage to the point of not wanting to play this game, and a scum flip will just show how awful my reads are anyway.

[zMuffinMan]

i have nothing else

to do

. there is no one else around

to engage

. i've given my thoughts on various people, and unless someone tells me why they think these thoughts are wrong, i can't do much outside of repeating myself at this point.

so yeah. why don't you tell me why you disagree with desp being scum and you can talk about why i'm your third choice for scum while you're at it.

[zMuffinMan]

more often than not, cops choose to investigate the reads they're unsure of rather than their scum reads, so what he said isn't in any way odd. also you're missing the point that if he is a cop who got an inno on BVD, he's basically saying the wagon likely has scum on it.

[zMuffinMan]

muffin, why do you just shoot down everyones ideas?

i was pointing out that kid A seemed to be assuming that UK investigated BVD so UK must have thought BVD was scum is not necessarily true... because cops will often push their scum reads and opt to investigate the ones they're not sure of

how the fuck is that shooting an idea down?

if he was unsure of them then why does that make people on the wagon scummy

no, you're still missing the point. it's not that the people on the wagon are scummy, it's that there's likely scum among the people attacking bvd. thus he said he would assess the people attacking bvd.

this isn't rocket surgery.

[zMuffinMan]

what's possibility of UK/muffin being some combo of traitor/mafia? I don't know.

ps: your derptastic plan of lynching bvd is sure going to shed light on that theory... ... ...

then stop answering for him. you are making excuses. playing devil's advocate. is he a delicate little birdie that needs your help? let him answer for himself and stop trying to protect BvD. they can also defend themselves. just because something is possible does not necessarily mean its likely. you keep coming up with imaginary ratios of likely to less likely. it is waaayyyyy more likely that a cop investigates a null/scum read than they investigate a town read.

yeah, i take back what i said earlier. you're actually retarded. i'm replacing out at the end of this day phase regardless of what happens. putting up with slandaar's moronic play is hard enough without this, too.

UK isn't even in the fucking game anymore, so HOW THE FUCK IS HE GOING TO ANSWER HIMSELF?

And yes, I FUCKING KNOW COPS INVESTIGATE NULL/SCUM READS. I SAID THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO INVESTIGATE THE READS THEY ARE FUCKING NULL ON OVER THEIR SCUM READS.

ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT?

[zMuffinMan]

YOU KNOW WHAT?

FUCK IT.

VOTE: DON_JOHNSON

POLICY LYNCH TIME.

YOU ARE EITHER SCUM OR VERY FUCKING DUMB. I DON'T EVEN CARE THAT DESP IS VOTING YOU AND BEING OBVSCUM. YOU NEED TO DIE.

HERE'S MY REASONING.

NO NK N1, SCUM LYNCH D1, WE HAVE A COP INNO AND LYNCHING DON_JOHNSON SAVES THE COP AN INVESTIGATION!!!

FUCKING AMAZING LOGIC, RIGHT?

NOT QUESTIONABLE LOGIC IN ANY WAY.

C'MON GUYS, LET'S DO THIS.

I ONLY WANT TO HEAR OPINIONS FROM PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH MY FAULTY LOGIC, SO PLEASE DON'T COMMENT IF YOU'RE JUST GOING TO POINT OUT THE ABSURDITY OF MY ARGUMENT. YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO DISCREDIT ME.

THANKS IN ADVANCE, LOVE AND KISSES.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm not actually freaking out, i just don't give a fuck and i felt like caps spamming.

i have requested replacement as soon as this day phase ends.

[zMuffinMan]

i am fairly sure kid A is town. even apart from the earlier town read i had on him, his recent posts look town. even the part where he asks peabody why peabody thinks he'll survive to tomorrow looks town (not only because if he were scum who performed a nk and it failed, he should be assuming that there is a doc or something in the game, but also because the paranoia is consistent with his suspicion that peabody could be lying and looks like genuine paranoia)

only problem is i don't have any strong feelings about who is scum outside of desperado and apparently that's not a viable lynch today.

i'm meh about formerfish. some of his posts look townish, i don't think he makes a lot of sense as scum with ASP.

dj could be town, just... so... i have no words to describe my feelings about this.

i don't think slandaar is scum. i think stubbs is probably town but almost entirely useless. peabody and bvd i'm still thinking are town. elyse i'm still thinking is town.

so i'm basically left with desperado, and one of mnem and viera. i think some of the things ASP said about viera-slot D1 don't make a lot of sense as scum-scum interactions, and i haven't really looked at how much sense a desp-mnem team makes. i'm still meh about mnem because i'm having trouble seeing mnem pushing a slandaar lynch as scum.

so whatever.

tl;dr is i don't know who is scum.

Unvote
Vote: Desperado

i can switch to any of the more viable wagons to achieve a lynch if necessary (and i imagine it will be necessary) but as long as there's a glimmer of hope, i can keep dreaming.

[zMuffinMan]

Formerfish - 4 (Slandaar, Kid A, mnemonicdevice, don_johnson)
mnemonicdevice - 3 (Buffy VS Dracula, Formerfish, Elyse)
Kid A - 2 (Peabody, Desperado)
Desperado - 1 (zMuffinMan)
With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Not voting: Viera Assassin, StubbsKVM



you can consider my vote currently on mnem for the purposes of counting wagon numbers.

[zMuffinMan]

{Desperado, mnemonic, VA} would be my guess for where the remaining scum is. possibility of formerfish but i don't think it's all that likely.

[zMuffinMan]

(in case it wasn't obvious, i will be around until the deadline to switch my vote wherever)

[zMuffinMan]

that is why i am considering the (what i think is a very real) possibility that desperado was bussing. compare the confidence he had in the posts where he asked for a ASP hammer to any of his reads today. either he was

just that confident

D1 and is not confident in any of his reads today, or... scum that knew ASP's flip.

his posts do look townish in the sense that i think any relatively experience scum player can look townish, but i don't really look at that as a sign of being town.

still, i do not think that a wagon on desp is going to happen today with <10 hours and not much agreement.

it's just something to consider on future days.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm going over ISOs atm and i don't feel strongly about either mnem or formerfish being scum. they both seem like newbtown. mnem's case on slandaar and some of the other things he's said today look townish, and there's also that thing he said to ASP after #171 which seems odd if they're scum together.

whatever.

Unvote
Vote: formerfish

Formerfish - 5 (Slandaar, Kid A, mnemonicdevice, don_johnson, zMuffinMan)
mnemonicdevice - 3 (Buffy VS Dracula, Formerfish, Elyse)
Kid A - 2 (Peabody, Desperado)
With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Not voting: Viera Assassin, StubbsKVM

Time remaining is (expired on 2013-09-17 12:00:00)

[zMuffinMan]

well kid A and slandaar are likely town for their reactions to the (actual lack of) night kill, even if i weren't already reading both of them as town. (lol at kid A's five cookes = v cookies = bvd scum)

and i'm inclined to agree that godfather is very unlikely if peabody is a 1-shot cop.

and i still think desperado could be scum.

Vote: Desperado

[zMuffinMan]

it's not so much about being confused on whether a kill went through, but what they said about it.

i thought kid A's reaction looked like town thinking he's figured out what the amazing last will meant.

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think it clears him as town, i just think it points towards him being town more than it does scum.

[zMuffinMan]

btw uberkang using his report on bvd makes even less sense than it did before if hes a one shot cop lol

why? what was the optimal play for using his report?

Why did you decide to stay in the game?

i told the mod when i requested replacement that if he didn't have replacement offers by the end of the night i'd stay in the game because it wasn't fair on him or the playerlist. *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

do you think them voting each other at the beginning of the game was fake / planned?

[zMuffinMan]

yeah i suppose i could see them as scum together. i originally had the interactions as town, but looking at it again it could just be distancing seeing as there was never really any strong push from either of them against the other, and VA's last post was horrible

why are you reading desp as town?

[zMuffinMan]

also mnem still looks town even if the whole doc rolefishing was an absolutely awful idea.

[zMuffinMan]

i think he does that every game, though. how do you differentiate the times he does it as town and the times he does it as scum?

[zMuffinMan]

VA,

thoughts on game plx

[zMuffinMan]

......................................................................

how do you go from thinking that peabody is modconfirmed 1-shot cop to thinking peabody is scum for claiming his investigation D2 (yes, the investigation he would have done N1) then claiming that it was 1-shot D3?

[zMuffinMan]

also what you quoted in no way implies peabody is modconfirmed, but that's beside the point

[zMuffinMan]

what do you think is not town about elyse's iso? (other than perhaps her recent lurking, which is kind of annoying but whatever)

and what was your issue with slandaar?

i've seen abilities that involve posting messages in the vcs/flip posts
which is what i think this is

the mod admitted it was a joke, essentially meaning it had no underlying meaning.

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, well, you clearly didn't read D2.

[zMuffinMan]

@VA,

list of places peabody mentioned stuff about his role

Spoiler:

Okay guys. Let's shake things up. We aren't lynching Buffy today.

Why?

You'll be happy to know that I'm your

friendly neighborhood cop

, and I'm pretty confident it's the right choice to claim here. Buffy vs Drac was my innocent result for the night. *Snips the noose around BvD's neck from the gallows*.

Don't believe me? How about you read my predecessor's post who didn't support the BvD wagon?

I'm fairly confident this poor townshydra was going to be lynched due to deadline panic. Which is why I needed to claim now. I won't be able to post again until this afternoon at least.

It makes no sense whatsoever for me to claim as cop right now if I'm scum. BVD is not dying today, and I don't understand why you think it should happen regardless of my innocent. It's antitown to lynch our only investigation so far.

Also a godfather is unlikely in my opinion.

This makes no sense. Lynching BVD does nothing to clear me. GF probably doesn't exist. And if the town allows me, I will explain why tomorrow's phase.

You'll know why I think there's no GF tomorrow.

---

Anyway, I don't have a result today. Why? Because I'm only a One-shot Cop.

sad thing is i don't know whether you're playing dumb or whether this is a town slip

[zMuffinMan]

Stubbs is being replaced by TSO.

oh jesus fuck god no

[zMuffinMan]

i mean... welcome.

Ok so my townpool is this:
Elyse, Muffin, Buffy, Slandaar, Peabody, Kid A

This leaves:
Desperado, don, mnemonic, Viera, Stubbs

this is in line with my basic thoughts atm, except mnem and stubbs i'm feeling are more on the townish side.

i might do some reading later tonight or tomorrow and think through my reads a bit more.

[zMuffinMan]

been busy today, early morning tomorrow. probably do some reading tomorrow afternoon.

[zMuffinMan]

won't have time til roughly 14-15 hours from now, then will be putting effort into this game.

[zMuffinMan]

I would like to know why you have not been on VA's case so far.

what do you mean? are you asking why i'm not voting VA or are you implying i haven't been questioning VA or something else?

[zMuffinMan]

4. He ruined Stubbs' reaction test for no good reason. I thought that was very town of Stubbs and seeing as I didn't pick up on ASP's claim either, it was legitimate

to be fair, regardless of whether desp is town or scum, i'm fairly sure there was no intent to ruin a reaction test here. i probably would have pointed out the claim as well (sometimes people miss claims and need them pointed out).

rest of the points i mostly agree with.

I will say VA not answering my question (which is very important) but being around to hop on Desp immediately is at a minimum suspicious.

maybe. not so much if desp is scum, and not so much considering the player.

what do you think of 737?

[zMuffinMan]

pretty sure i went over your points yesterday, peabody. you should reread the conversation i had with him shortly after replacing in, since my suspicion of desp had a similar basis. i also vaguely remember pointing out that he's lacked the same confidence in any of his other scum reads (i think i may have done this at the end of d2 in the post i revoted desp)

[zMuffinMan]

meh. i'm about as ambivalent as i could possibly be towards the VA wagon. if the desp wagon gains no traction i'll probably vote va but meh.

[zMuffinMan]

*shrug* because anything i say would be repeating what i've already said or repeating what others have said recently. conversation can't progress with people ignoring the posts about it. i can prod and poke people about it (you know, sort of like what i have been doing) but anything else relies on people actually being responsive.

[zMuffinMan]

if we lynch VA and he flips town, who are you going to want to lynch tomorrow?

[zMuffinMan]

why do you think desp is town?

[zMuffinMan]

yeah but considering who VA's alt is, all the points you mentioned are null to me at best. VA's activity has been lacking site-wide, and i

can

imagine VA posting in this way as town.

[zMuffinMan]

yeah the associative tells between pdmedic and ASP and the fact i'm null on VA overall is why i'd be willing to compromise on a VA lynch, but it's not preferred.

what do you think of desp calling the thing you think is a fake town tell genuine? because that is why he's not voting VA at the moment. i don't really agree with your analysis of desp (other than because i'm scum reading him) because he's basically committed to calling VA town, and the other option (jumping on VA immediately) would have just left him open to criticism for attacking lynchbait if VA actually is town. the other reason i don't agree with your analysis is that he's not really doing anything with his vote right now, but he was more than happy to criticise me for not "pushing" my vote on him much. *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

i get muffin on my side for a change?

no, not really. you should probably do something other than fluff post if you're town.

check out Kid A's iso and tell me he doesn't fit for number three.

i'd rather you tell me why he

does

fit.

[zMuffinMan]

i have. i want to know what

you

think of it.

[zMuffinMan]

i'll probably end up hammering some time in the next 24 hours if no one else does, but i want an answer to this from anyone currently attacking VA.

if we lynch VA and he flips town, who are you going to want to lynch tomorrow?

[zMuffinMan]

ok nm he's L-2

Viera Assassin - 4 (Elyse, don_johnson, Slandaar, Peabody)
Slandaar - 2 (Buffy VS Dracula, Viera Assassin)
Kid A - 2 (Desperado, mnemonicdevice)
don_johnson - 1 (Kid A)
Desperado - 1 (zMuffinMan)

With 11 alive its 6 to lynch.

This day which is completely devoid of humor will come to an end in (expired on 2013-10-03 12:00:00)

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think slandaar is scum. i don't think kid a is scum. i still prefer a desp lynch, or hey, even a dj lynch. but i doubt they will happen in the next 2 days so whatev.

[zMuffinMan]

i don't feel all that strongly about VA being scum.

answer the question i asked

[zMuffinMan]

no. is it kid a? i thought that was dependent on a va scum flip, since you're calling him the third scum. and you haven't even fucking explained why you think kid a is scum.

at least pretend to be town.

[zMuffinMan]

no you still haven't answered why you think kid a is scum. all you've said is "look at his iso, look at his iso" and i say "no, you look at it, and tell my

why

you think he's scum" and you go "i think he's scum, look at his iso" and thus we are stuck.

[zMuffinMan]

i looked at it. i disagree. now tell me why you think he's scum.

[zMuffinMan]

i want to lynch you so bad. :<

[zMuffinMan]

that's rather convincing actually

[zMuffinMan]

unvote
vote: VA

[zMuffinMan]

But we're not going to be able to get another wagon, are we?

pretty much.

i don't have strong feelings that VA is scum, but it's about the only lynch that's going to happen today.

*shrug*

eventually i'll get my desp lynch and it will be a scum flip and i'll be like, "omg i never saw that coming" and slandaar will be like, "i knew all along i was just trolling" and dj will be like "

i'm scum

i mean i'm town guys" and then we'll lynch him too and game over town win.

at least that is the dream i had but i don't think it will happen in this game ;_;

[zMuffinMan]

briefly skimmed but don't have time for proper response now. massclaim bad idea. be back in a couple hours.

[zMuffinMan]

(i.e. lack of nk's suggests it is more likely mafia knew VA was traitor)

no. this is just dumb because firstly, there's no way scum could have figured that out from the two posts VA had D2, and secondly, why the fuck would scum waste a kill recruiting VA-traitor even if they suspected it, rofl. and this is why there is no point in a massclaim today.

[zMuffinMan]

so my reservation about KidA is now that he is almost too obvious a choice for third scum

why?

dj assumed that VA was joking because he thought he knew the whole scumteam

dj assumed he wasnt dead because he chose the nk

the first part is nonsensical precisely because VA was a traitor (you're a derp if you think the remaining scum wasn't aware of a traitor in this game). the second part is meh, considering TSO also did the same thing.

Also if you honestly, legitimately think I bussed my first partner and then avoided lynching my traitor until I couldn't anymore

and then said I expected him to flip town

then you are out of your damn mind.

um... there are a lot of things wrong with this statement. the most obvious being that, assuming you're scum, you probably wouldn't have known VA was the traitor.

---

gonna do some reading later today

[zMuffinMan]

< i think

[zMuffinMan]

my thinking atm is something like

Peabody BvD
Elyse TSO
kidA dj
desperado mnem

in sort of tiered order of reads.

i'll start ISOing after i get some food (so... roughly an hour from now when i'm back)

[zMuffinMan]

um. tso was stubbs, dj was gg.

i don't think that post by UK is as bad as you think it is (i'm more willing to believe it was derp rather than him slipping that there was only one factional scum remaining)

also, you're assuming they

didn't

try to kill one of them N2 and then gave up and went after slandaar N3, assuming it was likely that peabody/bvd were likely targets for doc protection or something.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm saying lack of nk's means it is more likely that mafia tried to nk the VA slot at some point and thus brought him into the fold.

yeah, i know what you're saying, and i'm telling you that's a dumb idea for a few reasons.

think about it.

who in their right mind would kill VA of all people based solely on the suspicion that he might have been a traitor?
how could they have even known VA was the traitor from the 2 posts VA made, unless you think they picked it up from something pdmedic said? even then, first question still holds.
why would they even want to recruit VA? at best it gives night talk with someone who is lynchbait, at the cost of not killing off threats to the scum who actually look town.

i actually think, in the event that the scum didn't fail to submit kills on either N1 or N2, we more than likely have a doc, and i'd rather not do a mass claim today because of this. it's extremely likely there's only one scum left, and they're almost certainly going to claim VT here, so the only thing a mass claim is going to do is potentially out a doc. i mean, it's not the worst thing in the world that could happen, but why give scum any help?

same reasons as yesterday. do you not remember when you said "actually, that's quite convincing" after I posted the quick iso of kidA?

you said he's "too obvious" - i assumed that meant you're having second thoughts now.

its not out of the question that BvD is gf. two scum with power and a traitor may be evenly balanced against town with protective and investigative.

if the mod put a godfather in the game with a

1-shot

cop, then i don't know what to think. i also think BvD is almost certainly town after the slandaar kill, so there's that, too.

[zMuffinMan]

like, i'm not saying scum don't ever go traitor hunting (even though i personally think it's dumb and factional communication is really overrated), i just think that it's so unlikely that i'd rather believe scum either failed to kill one or both nights or the kill was blocked by something (most likely a doc, because if a town roleblocker/JK exists in this game and they haven't claimed their targets yet, they're dumb).

[zMuffinMan]

ok. but doc claiming wouldn't clear any of his protects if you think one of the nights could have been a recruit on VA's slot, so that makes a mass claim essentially pointless. more so if, say, slandaar was the N1 protect.

[zMuffinMan]

i also thought about it while i was eating and realised most people in this game probably didn't know VA was a saki alt, so i may not be justified in thinking "lol who the fuck would recruit VA?"

[zMuffinMan]

hm. i need to rethink mnem actually. there's two things that are making me think he could be town. one of them i can't talk about.

[zMuffinMan]

because rules

[zMuffinMan]

i currently don't think kid A is scum. i need to do some reading but i've been lazy. i'll make this a priority tonight, i guess.

[zMuffinMan]

hm. i'm thinking my reasons for thinking mnem could be town aren't as strong as i initially thought they were, and there's a whole bunch of scummy stuff in his ISO (including the way he voted lucky) that makes me want him dead.

[zMuffinMan]

what are we at now? like 8:1 most likely?

eh, lynching kid A wouldn't be the biggest loss if he's town, but i'd rather not atm.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm happy enough with peabody, bvd, TSO town. i'm thinking elyse is town, too. i'm still a bit conflicted on dj, but he can be town for now.

if remaining scum isn't in {mnem, desp} it's probably kid a.

only reason i wouldn't mind a kid a lynch is because it serves as part of a poe process anyway. i'm thinking mnem is a better choice, though.

Vote: mnemonic

[zMuffinMan]

@mnem,

well it was a few posts, but it was more me rereading and thinking about things. i was going over ISOs.

the thing i did like about your ISO and the main reason i was giving you credit for being town, is that i wasn't sure whether you as scum would choose to attack slandaar in the way you did. because slandaar just seems like an odd choice of target to attack if you're scum. but then i thought about it a little more and your attack on slandaar makes absolutely no sense given your supposed reads at the time. D1 you had him as a very strong town read (the first listed among your two strongest town reads) and with little to no explanation you suddenly were "most unsure" about him of all the players and decided to ISO him first when doing ISOs (i'm not even sure if you did any other ISOs). nothing happened between D1 and D2 that should have changed your read on slandaar that drastically, and if anything your town read on him should have been strengthened after lucky's flip.

another thing i didn't like is your read progression on kid A. even just today you go from thinking his posts look genuine and not being able to see him as scum, to thinking he's null and worth a vote. why would you even vote a null read whose posts you think are "genuine"? why is someone whose posts you think are genuine even null?

there's also minor things here and there i didn't like. for example, the rolefishing stuff (docs + "there aren't any masons in this game, are there...?") and i agree with peabody's point about your initial post today - it did look like a variant of congratulating the doc.

@dj,

i'm gonna be straight up with you. even if i were scum and i

did

think saki was a traitor, and even if i

did

think recruiting a traitor was a worthwhile use of a NK (hint: i don't), i cannot think of a scenario where i would willingly shoot saki in an attempt to recruit him. that wasn't me misunderstanding anything, that was me thinking a saki recruit is ludicrous.

[zMuffinMan]

as for dancing around the VA wagon yesterday, yeah, i was, but that had a lot to do with me being unsure about whether or not he was faking the peabody attack. *shrug* if you're able to discern saki's scum play from his town play, then kudos to you.

[zMuffinMan]

I have said many times now that the recruitment may very well not have been deliberate.

then you're an idiot.

[zMuffinMan]

point to one thing in either VA's or pdmedic's ISO that you think could be construed as a PR crumb or would lead me or my predecessor to think, "you know what would be a good idea? killing useless lynchbait because he's a threat to my wincon!"

[zMuffinMan]

you don't know what scummy means if you think that's scummy

[zMuffinMan]

by your logic, talking about how you thought slandaar was a doc and how the kill makes sense based on that, and talking about how it's so very unlikely that a recruit didn't happen (either accidentally or on purpose) and then hunting for scum on that basis, isn't at all ignorant, scummy thinking, no?

[zMuffinMan]

like you've already practically closed off your mind to the possibility that VA wasn't recruited to the point that you're hunting for scum on the basis that VA was recruited (as evidenced by your abominable attack on me).

you have no ground to stand on if your argument is that being close-minded is scummy. you lost all credit before you started.

[zMuffinMan]

actually think about what you've said today.

you've basically ruled out the possibility that scum missed a kill (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and given the amount of inactive players in this game so far,

it's not that unlikely that scum could have missed a kill unintentionally

. then you ruled out the possibility that two kills were protected against (because yeah, magic logic makes this less likely than a recruit). and then you started hunting scum based on VA interactions (like how i supposedly "danced" around the VA wagon).

you know what else you did today? suggested that kid A was trying to set up lynches after bussing his buddy. hey, wanna know what you did yesterday? you tried to set up a lynch on kid A as "number three" while voting VA.

wanna know what's

actually

self-centred? suggesting we lynch someone to see if you're right...

you know what's borderline retarded logic? suggesting kid A votes himself because him flipping town would somehow "bolster" his thinking (because yeah, being town totally means a person is correct, right?) is that scummy thinking or just dumb town thinking, dj? you're the expert on scumminess, you tell me.

[zMuffinMan]

the funnier thing about this conversation is you talking about how the way i interacted with VA was scummy, me saying nah that makes no sense because that's not how i'd play as scum, and you thinking it's scummy for me to point this out.

yeah, i'm happy just ignoring you until this game ends, actually.

[zMuffinMan]

why did you think Slandaar was town D1?

also i remember you claiming that you ISO'd him first because you were most unsure about him, so what exactly was it that made you unsure about him?

your response to the kid A stuff didn't really answer any of the questions i asked there. why would you even vote a null read whose posts you think are "genuine" - as in, there's plenty of time in the day phase, why not push someone you actually think is scum? why is someone whose posts you think are genuine even null?

[zMuffinMan]

Slandaar: You were the person that I was the most unsure about. Well, except for the inactives, but what posts was I going to base that on?

[zMuffinMan]

TOWN
Slandar
Desp

Null-TOWN
Stubs
Kid A
Buffy

Null
Stubbs
Alexcellent
Medic

Null-Scum
Gee Gee
Kang
Fish

Scum
Lucky
Elyse

granted this reads list is from D1 and it might have changed, but you were most unsure about slandaar?

[zMuffinMan]

gg

n1-
Mafia killed no one.

oh, you don't say. never would have figured this was a possibility.

[zMuffinMan]

your vote on me was almost entirely because of how i interacted with VA. i even explained why it was not all that improbable that scum could have missed a kill N1. and you criticised me for being close-minded and i was trying to get you to understand that you were doing that. *shrug*