Mini 1530 - Guyett's Paranoid Geology Trip GAME OVER

[PinkMittens]

Taylor seems to have covered everything, we got this game in the bag!^^

/conf

[PinkMittens]

Technically, it was only 7/13ths of everything. I can add another, though.

Meh, two scum and five conf. town seems good enough for D-1;).

On a slightly more serious note,
VOTE: toolenduso
getting defensive before we even enter rvs!

[PinkMittens]

^You just don't like cats, do ya?

Not really. I was just pointing out that they were making scumreads and townreads before the game had even started.

The way players have responded to it since then makes me think it was more of a joke than I originally thought, but now I'm just confused.

@Taylor: Was there actually a reason for your reads in the confirmation stage post, or were you just trying to kickstart discussion?

Only cares about posts aimed at him. Doesn't care about finding scum. Defensive mindset. Scum mentality.

[PinkMittens]

Let me know if this post-format is annoying.


@TSO. I like the thought of self-votes during rvs, brings content. Self-voting when we already have some content, and no sign of similar stuff in the meta (if anything, quite often passive early on), not as much. That being said, better targets right now.

@Naoi. #54 is indeed weak, but probably just new. Now listen to tool and go vote him

@CoolDog. Not reading through the playerlist (Taylor=hydra) & thinks a pre-rvs mod vote is the most interesting in the game so far? Not a fan of this post.

@Kaze. Conf. town might be an exaggeration, but he'd need serious brains & balls for that as scum. Strongest town read for sure.

@Benmage. P2 felt a bit weird, but I the p3 content. I like the reaction to Kaze, think scum would consider that a re-roll could hurt them even more as well (gives up all their PRs, and makes fake-claiming hard). Seems town.


@Tool.

And what would you call this?

I'd call that paying attention to a post aimed at you, and then proceeding to jump the easiest target (Naoi, #50, #55). Needs more votes.

[PinkMittens]

Mad, and contacting the mod, sure. Asking for a re-roll right away? Doubt it. I got a good impression from your other P3 posts as well.

Scum: Tool>Cool>TSO.

[PinkMittens]

What made you change your vote from TSO to tool?

[PinkMittens]

Cool proceeds to completely ignore the most significant occurance in the game, the wagon on tool, and instead proceeds to sheep him. Mentions #joindateelitism, yet builds his entire case on a post easily explained by looking at just that. Nonsense.

Snif, why is tool obv. town?

[PinkMittens]

sure, whatever, don't give a shit. put your vote with this big talk friend.

Nah I'm "cool". I think your post(s) are nonsense, but I don't see much scum motivation in them either (maybe a little, naio could be an easy misslynch). The exception would be if tool is your partner, but that'd just be too blatant (and too early to consider partners really). Hence my vote stays where it is.

What does this change at all?

Means that Guyett was obliged to add the PM, and hence him doing so gives no information.


You are cute Naio, keep posting

[PinkMittens]

Not a fan that you stopped that wagon already Benmage, would've been very interesting to see who'd have gotten on it. Don't think such a massive (and exaggerated) defence of both Naio & Kaze that you forget to scum-hunt was warranted either, don't think that helps us (no significant danger for either, comfortable players get hard to read/lazy). You seem more interested in making friends than anything else lately, and that kinda rubs me the wrong way (just not sure if it's playstyle or not, gotta meta).

Either way I think we have at least one scum in tool, cool & shos. I think scum would've jumped that wagon asap, #101 is bad and tools posts are still bad. I feel slightly better (but still not good) about cools recent posts though.

Personally I'm not entirely convinced that Naio is town, but his posts seem genuine and I'm definitely leaning town (unfortunately I think he'd feel genuine panick as either alignment though). If anyone still thinks this is strange for him as town, check out newbie 1440, hyper-defensive over nothing and a massive lynchbait there as well.

@Snif. I like your post in #114, I was about to ask TSO the same thing. Regarding tool you're essentially just saying that he'd act this way as both scum and town though, so how is it a town read? Tell me more about his play.

@Good. Do you still find Kaze & Naio scummy (#97)? Why? Content plix:)

@TSO. Mind answering #114? Really think Benmage would be that blatant if Kaze was his partner? Is there a reason for your posts being so unclear/short?

What is our green hydra up to?

[PinkMittens]

I'm a lil' drunk but I'll give a quick answer to this:

alright anyone who is voting tool tell me why.

before heading to bed. I'll give some more thoughts on what's happened in the game tomorrow, not that there's been a lot since my last post, and anything I forget regarding tool.

Regarding Tool: I didn't think his initial reaction to Taylor (#21) was terribly scummy, but I did think that it was the scummiest we had at that point (well, about the only thing). Hence I decided to start with my vote there to see reactions/get the game going. I didn't really like the reactions I got. His posts didn't feel genuine/forced, defensive and jumped on the first opportunity to direct us elsewhere (Naio, which I think is a scummy/terrible wagon in general). Once the attention started to shift to the Naio wagon (that he started) he made no intentions of analysing/questioning the responses from Naio, he simply left the vote there and stopped posting until it started to lose steam.

His posts after that are decent to me (#127 feels a little town). That being said, those posts would be very easy to make as scum as well, the questions are obvious/already made elsewhere. When he isn't actively pressured (I don't think he is atm, despite being at L-2) he doesn't really seem to have any incentive of providing content. Most people have been posting quite little in general though, so I guess this doesn't mean too much. I will admit that I don't think the case on tool is far from strong, I'm just not sure if I have a better one atm.


That being said, O wouldn't really mind a wagon on Cool either, not sure which one I find scummier atm. Those are the only two (you would've been the third before this page) I'm fine voting for atm, I feel kinda unable to read TSO and regarding the rest I'm leaning town/null or they simply haven't provided enough content yet. More on that tomorrow.

[PinkMittens]

^that+me being busy. I'll hve a proper post after work tomorrow:)

[PinkMittens]

Well, this blows and I'm sorry for the lack of content. I have a few hours day to read/post after work and the site has just been down at that time. Hopefully it'll be up when I get home today. Quick answer to the questions in the meantime:

Do you still think toolenduso is a realistic lynch? Reads on CooLDog and goodmorning?

I wouldn't be terribly upset about a tool lynch, but I don't think the ideal lynch anymore no. Think Cool is scum, not sure about goodmorning.

UNVOTE: for now. I'll re-read the thread when I get home, I've barely gotten a chance to look at it for days, but I'm leaning towards a Cool vote.

[PinkMittens]

I'll have to v/la until the 26:th, I'm at my parents place celebrating christmas. Assuming that the site stays up I should get some spare time eventually though, and I'll be available for quick questions/voting.

[PinkMittens]

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE GUYS

we can't afford a no lynch.

***Everyone who checks into the thread comment on Taylor. His lynch is really the only plausible one atm. L-3.

This post is either really scummy or really silly. Anyways, we have plurality so we dont absolutely need to come to a consensus (though it is nice, more people to look at after the flip) and this lynch is in no way the only possible atm.

I don't want to lynch Taylor right now. Not really sure if town or scum (~null, haven't read this properly lately), but it's active and I like the mindset (found myself agreeing with quite a few things). I'd rather lynch essentially anyone else with votes right now, they are all either less active nulls or leaning scum to me.

I'm so not in the game right now (I haven't had time to go through it properly since the site came back) so I kinda hate to vote for someone right now. That being said, I'd hate letting scum control the lynch (especially on someone I don't want dead) way more. Hence I'll be voting Cool, I don't like the mentality/tone (could indeed make him a lynchbait though, but it's the best I have) of his posts, something feels off and I don't think his votes/conclusions make sense. This is hardly set in stone though, and I have a feeling that sheeping snifit might actually be more useful than my own judgement right now..

VOTE: CoolDog

[PinkMittens]

Just ask for a replacement if you have no interest in playing the game TSO? Your play makes little sense as scum and even less as town.

Anyways, I'm perfectly fine changing my vote to TSO, he's either scum or purposly anti-town. We could do worse for the D-1 lynch.

Zero interest in a Kaze lynch here as well.

[PinkMittens]

A few thoughts so far regarding the last two pages. I've read through the previous stuff as well, but I'll need to go a bit more into detail to get my thoughts sorted (and I'm still fairly busy irl, I apologize).

Thoughts:
Cooldog wagon built very quickly even considering the circumstances (town=easier to lynch+end of the day). Considering that, the fact that we didn't need a majority (plurality) and that people were very easily swayed into voting for it it feels fairly safe to say that we have 1-2 scum on it.

Think Benmages flip strengthens the town reads on Naio & Kaze slightly, he was such a die-hard defender that keeping him alive would be more beneficial than the slight town gain they (imo) get from killing him. Don’t really think looking at his suspects is worth that much, he wasn’t really scumhunting nearly as much as he was townhunting so I doubt this caused his death (though it could've had an impact). So yeah, liking shos view on it. Think Kaze is overcomplicating it/trying to hammer in that he’s town in #414, this post is in all honesty pretty terrible. If the reason for the kill is that Kaze was a threat, just kill him? It’s not like it’d be easy to push a Kaze lynch today with or without Benmage (and tool definitely isn't in position to do a 180 and push for a Kaze lynch).

#411. Taylor town-reading me seems off, my D-1 performance is pretty much terrible.

#417. Reason? Just the same as Kaze? Think that logic is very far-fetched/almost pure wifom.

#418. A hydra misinterpreting a (to me) pretty obvious post, at best that’s two people not reading through posts properly (which I feel is far easier to do if you first decide on a target, and then look for evidence supporting that) and at worst it’s simply to discredit. Scummy either way. I think I saw a post where someone did this exact thing a few pages back, if that was EK as well this behaviour is very scummy. I'll go take a look.
I do agree with the rest of the post though.

#424. I can definitely see people reading me as scum, but this case might be the worst case I’ve witnessed, why is fairly self-explanatory. Admittedly I don’t think tools previous posts/reads (in both this game and previous ones) have made much sense either, so I can’t be sure if he’s being silly or scum. The fact that the votes on him right now are really bad (not even one decent reason), does make me feel a bit uncomfortable voting him as well.

Not the right person to call him out on it (pot kettle), but Jacobs lurking is a bit scummy at this point. Flying under the radar entirely, and still making posts (although short) in other threads.

TSO. His play makes more sense as scum than town (but doesn't really make much sense as either), and he’s being purposely anti-town. Scum will never nk him, and he can't be around for endgame, meaning that he needs to be lynched. Better to do that sooner than later (less info now than later), so I think he's the best lynch right now, just unfortunate is that we didn’t do that yesterday.

VOTE: TSO

[PinkMittens]

Pink, what are your reads?

IMO EK is atm bussing TSO.

Starting to doubt half my town-reads, hence I feel the need to go through the thread more, but it's something along these lines right now:

Town:
Snifit
Naio
Shos
Kaze
Taylor

Leaning scum:
Jacob
EK

Scum:
TSO
Tool

Sup sorry,

Pink its Day 2, it seems like your pushing a policy lynch, that seems a little late don't you think?

Yes, it's bad and I wish we lynched him yesterday. That being said, I'd hardly consider it a policy lynch. What I say/mean is that I think he's scum, but worst case scenario he's a harmful townie. Since he's openly anti-town/avoids posting any useful content I will confess that I find it fairly hard to determine which one (which very much is scum motivated).

You mean PinkMittens, who openly admits there's nothing on me but is pushing a policy lynch.

Come on, shos.

Read again, read right. Alternatively you could actually contribute, I wonder why a townie would refuse to.

This is the scum on the wagon, if you're looking for it.

Yes, scum starting the wagon explains why it climbed so quickly. Cool story.

[PinkMittens]

I've shown the game scum in you. Keep trying to discredit me though, it amuses me how you flail when you're caught.

I don't really see how I can discredit you better than you do yourself. Anyone can simply iso you and see what you tried to do yesterday: first, lynch/discredit a universal townread who got nk'd tonight (benmage, #128->), tried to lynch another strong townread (kaze, #128->, #219->), voted for a confirmed town (snifit, #250->, #290) and a whole bunch of AtE and self-votes (#56, #306->). This case is crap, every case you've made so far has been crap, you're as anti-town as it gets.

[PinkMittens]

Happy new year! Hence I find it totally acceptable that I'm doing another drunken post, but please forgive any incoherence.

Do you believe they should be lynched regardless of which one of these categories they fall into?

No, only if they are likely to be scum. However I do think someone who purposly puts themselves in these two categories should be lynched, especially if I know that they are capable of doing better than that (which looking at tso past games, he's able to). Simply the fact that they chose to play anti-town is very scummy, since the only valid reason I can think off for doing that is to make themselves harder to read. I also think someone who is anti-town and likely to be scum is better to lynch than someone who is equally likely to be scum but actually tries to contribute, not to mention that I feel like the latter usually will be easier to read.

Do you still think your reasoning in #414 seems likely?

Anyway tool's posts mean he should get more posts.

I agree, and I agree that tool is scummy, however what's your reason for voting him? I really don't feel like throwing my vote there when he has three votes without even one proper reason.

[PinkMittens]

#424. I can definitely see people reading me as scum, but this case might be the worst case I’ve witnessed, why is fairly self-explanatory.

Please explain anyway.

Okedokie.

Spoiler:

PinkMittens: #76 reads like wishy-washiness about me, Naio and TSO. The TSO read especially bothers me because she basically built a case against him and then abandoned it. #92, she declines to vote CD because she "doesn't see much scum motivation" despite listing him as her second scum read only a few PinkPosts before. #132 is more wishy-washiness on CD. #166, says "I wouldn't really mind a wagon on Cool either." Hasn't voted CD yet, but has hinted at it several times.

#76 isn't wishy-washy. I don't like Naios post, but I conclude that this most likely is because he's new, not because he's scum. I scum-read you and provide reasons. I mention that I think TSO plays so far is a bit scummy, but not scummy enough to make me focus/vote him over you.

#92. I don't see a lot of scum motivation, but I don't see an ounce of town motivation. Enough for me to put him as my scum read, second to you, at this stage.

#132. He actually brings a case/provide understandable reasons for his vote on Naio, I don't like the case at all but at least it makes more sense than the gibberish in his early posts.

#166. Cool has been my second scum read for most of the game. He's still my second scum read. I'm saying that I'm fine voting for either of my scum reads.

OK so now that we have a CD townflip, I think Pink looks really bad. I posted the above read before she voted for him, but then she did vote for him after I posted this.

Pink basically waffled on CD during day one. She backed down when CD confronted her about it, but then continued to leave a door open without committing to it and voted for him in time to make him the deadline lynch.

Cool was, as stated, the second most scummiest person to me for essentially all D-1. At a glance (I hadn't read through the thread properly at that point) I liked that you were getting a bit more active and I thought Taylors case against you was a bit iffy (some good points that I agree with, but also some very weak), hence I instead voted for my second scum read, Cool. In retrospect that was obviously a bad choice.

To me your case essentially boils down to "PM isn't voting his secondary scum read, that's scummy." when I'm voting for my number one scum read.



A quick TSO case before I go to bed:
#56, Selfvoting over looking at the thread. Avoids to give a clear answer as to why despite asked several times (#98, #133) before giving bullshit reason in #219 and keeps said vote useless until #254 despite scum reading people before that point.

Faulty logic/conclusions/misrep: #128, #288, #292, #431->.

Saying that he reads Kaze as town (#139), yet spends a lot of effort to paint him as scum (#128->). Goes from Kaze town to scum in #139->219, I fail to see how Kazes post is strange enough to warrant this change.

OMGUS. All his votes/cases are based on/in response to whoever accuses him. Benmage #59 into 88->, Kaze #161 into 219->, Snifit #229 into 230->, Kaze again #256 into 262->, me #428 into 431->.

Most of said players are also townreads/now confirmed town, making it hard to find an alternative motivation.

lynch/discredit a universal townread who got nk'd tonight (benmage, #128->), tried to lynch another strong townread (kaze, #128->, #219->), voted for a confirmed town (snifit, #250->, #290)

Being purposly anti-town. In addition to the things above:

a whole bunch of AtE and self-votes (#56, #306->,

+#456

).

[PinkMittens]

I'm off to bed, so I'll reply to TSO's case tomorrow, but yeah it's crap.

[PinkMittens]

And I can tell you that PinkMittens is just gonna come in, talk about 2-3 things, dismiss the case and move on. That's what scum do when they can't address accusations. If you can't see now I'm being genuine as fuck you should vote me, as I'll clearly never be able to convince you.

Called it, yet again.

What could this be referring to? That you’ve managed to build yet another shitty case towards a townie, since that’s what you’ve been doing all game?

My case against you consists of far more than 2-3 things, it’s bigger (just that I don’t make a massive quote-wall out of it) and far stronger than yours, which admittedly isn't remotely challenging. No way that I'm dismissing it, you're the most obvious scum I've ever seen. Saying that I dismiss/move on because I will respond after I get some sleep (at 1 in the night, with work in 5 hours) is obviously absurd. Calling me scum for that when you conveniently ignored my entire case isn’t just scummy, it's also ironic and terrible. All of this is nothing but your so loved word,

discrediting

. That word also conveniently sums up your shitty case (response in cursive):

Spoiler:

Taylor seems to have covered everything, we got this game in the bag!^^

/conf

Starts off the game trying to appease Taylor. Why?

Calling the fact that I make a joking post pre-game appeasing is hilariously weak.

Discredit.

VOTE: toolenduso
getting defensive before we even enter rvs!

This reeks of fake scumhunting.

Not really. I was just pointing out that they were making scumreads and townreads before the game had even started.

The way players have responded to it since then makes me think it was more of a joke than I originally thought, but now I'm just confused.

@Taylor: Was there actually a reason for your reads in the confirmation stage post, or were you just trying to kickstart discussion?

Only cares about posts aimed at him. Doesn't care about finding scum. Defensive mindset. Scum mentality.

Bullshit of the highest nature. We are on page 2 - I doubt toolenduso ever even comprehended finding scum on page 2, let alone actively look for them. This is an unfair question which targets tool's newness.

As well as mongering negativity towards tool, the post is full of misreps. Tool not understanding one of Taylor's tactics means he "doesn't care about finding scum and has a scum mentality?" Stop right there, you've proven how full of holes your case is by yourself.

Yeah, trying to get some actual content going over remaining in rvs is so incredibly scummy, can't believe I didn't think of that! Obviously it’s not a good case on page two, but it’s better to push at whatever little thing you can find than to throw around RVS votes (or do nothing but self-vote until post 250). Unlike you I don't actively strive to give town as little information as possible, but quite the opposite.

Tool isn’t new, he has played more than five times as many games (10+) as me. Naio, who tool immediately pounced when he got accused, is.

Discredit

/lie.

Scum: Tool>Cool>TSO.

This is an opportunistic-as-fuck scumlist, where PM doesn't have to stand out from anyone by repeating what they're saying.

Except that I’m the first person who went after Tool. I’m the first person who goes after Cool. You chose to RVS/self-vote over contributing.

Discredit

/outright lying.

What made you change your vote from TSO to tool?

Paraphrased as: "Why did you change your read from my greatest scumread to my weaker scumread?"

He should be delighted he's pressuring scum. Instead, he worries about appearing thoughtful to everyone else. Now THAT'S a scum mentality.

Very warranted question considering that both tool and you provided a grand total of zero new content between him changing his votes.

Discredit.

Cool proceeds to completely ignore the most significant occurance in the game, the wagon on tool, and instead proceeds to sheep him. Mentions #joindateelitism, yet builds his entire case on a post easily explained by looking at just that. Nonsense.

The crux of this post is that sheeping tool is scummy, when it's not. We're never told why it's scummy or how he did it is scummy. It's just scummy. That's useless and it doesn't analyse mindset. It's surface deep because the mislynch PinkMittens is pushing is also surface deep.

Yes it is, because the case on Naio is bad. Naio isn’t particularly scummy, but a very easy target (since he, unlike tool, actually is new). I indeed do explain why said case is bad (#55), so this is another

discredit

/lie.

sure, whatever, don't give a shit. put your vote with this big talk friend.

Nah I'm "cool". I think your post(s) are nonsense, but I don't see much scum motivation in them either.

You called Cool scum earlier, you called Cool scum later, but the one time Cool put it up to you, you backed the fuck away. Why?

Why would I change my vote from my primary scum read to my secondary simply because he wants me to? I simply don't find him as scummy as tool.

Discredit

.

You seem more interested in making friends than anything else lately, and that kinda rubs me the wrong way (just not sure if it's playstyle or not, gotta meta).

How was Benmage attempting to make friends? I don't see it.

#122-125.

Either way I think we have at least one scum in tool, cool & shos.

SO. MUCH. OPPORTUNISM.

No, that wagon is what's opportunistic.

Discredit.

Personally I'm not entirely convinced that Naio is town, but his posts seem genuine and I'm definitely leaning town (unfortunately I think he'd feel genuine panick as either alignment though)

This is yet another example of inconsistency with reads and mindset. PinkMittens isn't convinced Naio is Town, but his posts are genuine and he's definitely leaning Town. What is this? Why are you going in circles constantly?

I’m not convinced=I'm not certain that he’s town. I’m leaning town, for the reasons I mentioned. See the difference between being convinced and leaning? No inconsistency there,

discredit

.

Regarding Tool: I didn't think his initial reaction to Taylor (#21) was terribly scummy, but I did think that it was the scummiest we had at that point (well, about the only thing). Hence I decided to start with my vote there to see reactions/get the game going. I didn't really like the reactions I got. His posts didn't feel genuine/forced, defensive and jumped on the first opportunity to direct us elsewhere (Naio, which I think is a scummy/terrible wagon in general). Once the attention started to shift to the Naio wagon (that he started) he made no intentions of analysing/questioning the responses from Naio, he simply left the vote there and stopped posting until it started to lose steam. His posts after that are decent to me (#127 feels a little town). That being said, those posts would be very easy to make as scum as well, the questions are obvious/already made elsewhere. When he isn't actively pressured (I don't think he is atm, despite being at L-2) he doesn't really seem to have any incentive of providing content. Most people have been posting quite little in general though, so I guess this doesn't mean too much. I will admit that I don't think the case on tool is far from strong, I'm just not sure if I have a better one atm. That being said, O wouldn't really mind a wagon on Cool either, not sure which one I find scummier atm. Those are the only two (you would've been the third before this page) I'm fine voting for atm, I feel kinda unable to read TSO and regarding the rest I'm leaning town/null or they simply haven't provided enough content yet. More on that tomorrow.

This is the only decent posts that PinkMittens made in the whole game, but there was no follow-up on the push on tool. If I made a huge case on a player, I'd push the damn thing hard. PinkMittens didn't, and the only reason I can think of is that one mislynch is the same as the next.

I didn’t make a huge case, I even state that I don’t think my case is very good (if anything I find it very difficult to make strong cases on D-1).

Discredit

/inability to even read my post. I also state that I’m busy in subsequent posts, so even if it was a "huge case" no follow-up wouldn't be strange.

Discredit.

Do you still think toolenduso is a realistic lynch? Reads on CooLDog and goodmorning?

I wouldn't be terribly upset about a tool lynch, but I don't think the ideal lynch anymore no. Think Cool is scum, not sure about goodmorning.

UNVOTE: for now. I'll re-read the thread when I get home, I've barely gotten a chance to look at it for days, but I'm leaning towards a Cool vote.

Apparently, PinkMittens hasn't read the thread in days, but still thinks CoolDog is scum due to ...wait, nothing. How unconvincing.

I haven’t read through it properly, but I’ve had time to glance through it. I also scum-read Cool even before this point,

discredit

. Also, you complaining about players not giving reasons for their reads, just lol.

I don't want to lynch Taylor right now. Not really sure if town or scum (~null, haven't read this properly lately), but it's active and I like the mindset (found myself agreeing with quite a few things). I'd rather lynch essentially anyone else with votes right now, they are all either less active nulls or leaning scum to me.

This post is completely inconsistent with itself. Let's use the power of paraphrasing:
"Don't want to lynch Taylor. Completely null read. Active, correct mindset, agreed on many things."

How could that be a null read? Answer: it's not.

I’m saying ~null, not complete null read.

Discredit

. I’m saying that I like the mindset/agree on quite a few things, not that he has a correct mindset/that I agree on many things (for example, I got a bad impression from parts of his tool case).

Discredit

. That I agree with a player does in no way equal to him being a strong town read.

Discredit.

Don't even try to change the meaning of my post, scum.

What would be scummy is if I’d have a ton of confident/strong reads despite barely being a part of the game for 10 days.

I'm so not in the game right now (I haven't had time to go through it properly since the site came back) so I kinda hate to vote for someone right now. That being said, I'd hate letting scum control the lynch (especially on someone I don't want dead) way more. Hence I'll be voting Cool, I don't like the mentality/tone (could indeed make him a lynchbait though, but it's the best I have) of his posts, something feels off and I don't think his votes/conclusions make sense. This is hardly set in stone though, and I have a feeling that sheeping snifit might actually be more useful than my own judgement right now.

This, right here, should condemn you to the noose. It's the most cynical, fake, produced reasoning for a mislynch ever. You don't like his mentality or tone? No examples, nothing? No quotes, no anything at all. You even jump the gun by telling us he's lynchbait, and then you vote him anyway.

This makes no sense as a strong scumread.

Earlier in the game, we were told CD was your 2nd highest scumread. This post proves that was a barefaced lie, as you clearly didn't even read CoolDog's ISO.

It makes sense if all I’ve done is glancing through the thread. I don’t have time to go find quotes, I haven’t had time to read through the thread properly, so I say what I have at this stage, the feeling I got from his posts. The other options were to say nothing, or lie. I know what I think benefits town most.

Discredit.

You should be damn happy with the fact that I didn't have time to through the thread properly, or we wouldn't have to use todays lynch on you.

I read Cools iso earlier on. That I don’t remember exactly what posts that made me suspect him back then after not being active in the game for ~10 days isn’t exactly strange.

Discredit.

If I wanted an easy misslynch I’d obviously not point out that he may be lynchbait/that my judgement is lacking. I do this because I want to bring attention to the fact that this is a weak read, and that people should form their own opinions/follow a town who is more engaged than me.

VOTE: CoolDog

You said right above this post you'd hate to let scum control the lynch and you'd hate to vote, then sheeped the largest lurker-VI wagon going. Your mindset doesn't correlate with your actions.

Cool had one vote on him at that point. Taylor had four and you three.

Discredit

/outright lying.

Just ask for a replacement if you have no interest in playing the game TSO? Your play makes little sense as scum and even less as town.

Anyways, I'm perfectly fine changing my vote to TSO, he's either scum or purposly anti-town. We could do worse for the D-1 lynch.

Zero interest in a Kaze lynch here as well.

Actually, my play makes sense as either. But that's a sidenote.

Too much pride to let that go scum? Tell me more about how self-votes and not giving a fuck makes sense as town. Tell me how it isn’t anti-town. Please do.

If my play makes no sense as scum, then why would you vote me? You then bring up the classic "anti-town" line, a sure-fire mislynch quote.

I state that your play makes little (not no) sense as scum, and that it makes absolutely no sense as town.

Discredit.

Your opportunism in being on CoolDog but letting people know you'll lynch me, the only two viable wagons, is shocking.

Another lie. The biggest wagon was on Taylor with Benmage pushing hard (#347) for said lynch. That I'm prepared to lynch someone who purposly acts anti-town/refuses to contribute on D-1 if I can't lynch my number one scum read is hardly strange.

Discredit

.

And I can tell you that PinkMittens is just gonna come in, talk about 2-3 things, dismiss the case and move on. That's what scum do when they can't address accusations. If you can't see now I'm being genuine as fuck you should vote me, as I'll clearly never be able to convince you.
¨

Discredit

. AtE. Lies.

Now, that's everything before the CoolDog lynch. I'll probably go through his other 4 posts later, but there's one that stuck with me:

I've shown the game scum in you. Keep trying to discredit me though, it amuses me how you flail when you're caught.

I don't really see how I can discredit you better than you do yourself.

shos, go to fucking Specsavers if you were convinced to vote me because of this. PinkMittens doesn't even deny discrediting me! That's yet another slip.

I’m saying that there's no point in me discrediting you, the correct conclusion from that would be that I obviously don't.

Discredit.

This is really blatant, by the way, and yet again it's one of those posts which you should look at and think, "Do we hang this scumfuck today or do we hang this scumfuck today?" Any other reaction is wrong.

Discredit.

AtE. Lies

I do appreciate that you bring me this case though, up until this point I guess there was a remote possibility that you just hit your head really hard. However at this stage it’s completely obvious that you purposely misinterpret every single post (in absurd ways at that) I’ve made in an attempt to discredit me, there's no possible way that you aren't scum. Just go self-vote already.

[PinkMittens]

lol kidding ^^;

I think this argument is going on between two townies by now. I think some of the less posting guys are the place we should be looking at. redirect your attention to the EK slot, let's see what replacement gets us, and Jacob, and that kind.

actually by PoE I would ONLY like to look at these two for the next while.

What is this? Explain to me how TSO is town. Explain to me how he possibly could make these posts as town. Explain why we should restrict us to two players when there's three scum in the game.

[PinkMittens]

Ok. I am calibrating with mastin who I think is returning now. Or returned. Ish.

Anyway, I really want tool dead. Is there any reason we cannot have this?

Because TSO is begging for it, and because tool has three votes without anyone providing a reason for it (well, probably still scum).

Lynching tool and EK is a pretty sexy plan.

Yes, after TSO. What's your reason for voting tool? What do you read TSO as right now?

But maybe that's just the bloodlust from reading the word "discredit" 75,000 times talking.

That's how many times I went through TSO's iso. Go read through it as well and tell me that he isn't scum.

Do you still think your reasoning in #414 seems likely?

/confirm

Gonna have to read up tonight. Anything I should know about who to look at?

Snifit is conftown (#280+284). Look at TSO, tool and I guess me primarly. Take a look at Jacobs posts as well while you're at it, that won't take a lot of time.

[PinkMittens]

Do you still think your reasoning in #414 seems likely?

I don't see why it wouldn't be. Though, I must admit it was stupid of me to say that before tool showed us what direction he was going to go today. Even if I were right on the money he could have came into the thread ready to to exactly what I said, saw my post, and switched gears accordingly. Never know, eh? That said, I'm looking around. You don't look particularly good right now, and I'm not up for lynching TSO today.

Not saying that tool isn't scummy, but your reasoning in #414 just doesn't make any sense to me. With or without Benmage it'd be hard to get a wagon on you today. If you scumreading someone is what they're afraid of, they'd nk you instead. Benmage was not a significant threat to tool (~null in #344 is the closest he came since #102, and that was followed by #345).

Do you have another reason for voting tool? What made you change your mind regarding TSO?

[PinkMittens]

Yeah, yeah. That case was pretty lame. I'm mainly voting tool now because I still have a bad gut feel about him, but I'm looking around still.

Hmm ok, that's weak for D-2.

TSO? The exchange between you and him. I feel like he's town.

... I'll reformulate my case against him tomorrow.

[PinkMittens]

Good night.

[PinkMittens]

Huh. Your first line here reads like you suspect me as scum, but your second line reads that you want to convince me to see your points against TSO.

Why are you trying to convince someone you suspect to be scum of anything?

I don't think you're scum, I think you're lazy. Anyways, see ya tomorrow.

[PinkMittens]

You don't like that I'm developing reads by reading the thread? I...

What should I do then?

I do, and I think they make sense so far, please keep doing that.

Regarding the TSO case I'll have to get on that tomorrow, a bit busy atm.

[PinkMittens]

I've had a little cold. I'll give my input on the last few pages, answer any questions and redo my case against TSO first thing in the morning.

[PinkMittens]

Thoughts/questions regarding the last few pages:

Spoiler:

It's not that you weren't voting for your second scumread. It's that you left a back door open for your second scumread and then hopped on when it looked like a wagon on him would succeed, and then he flipped town.

On TSO: Pink's case against TSO seems to me to basically be "he's making bad arguments, therefore he's scum" and seems to still be at least partially a policy lynch. I don't buy that, and in fact TSO's interactions with Pink make him seem more towny to me because he seems to have real conviction behind his push.

@Shos: Wtf? No, seriously, why have you been hopping around so much and why did you vote jingle after his first catch-up post?

@ETL

and Mastin

: Is your scum read against me based on the same case from yesterday?

Stating that someone is your second scum read essentially means that you are willing, or close to willing, to vote them. That’s kinda what you want to do with your scum reads.

Also, you seriously need to start posting actual content over simply asking easy questions to everyone, looks like you're just trying to avoid taking a stance. Tell me your reads, explain why and vote someone!

I don't see Kaze as scum trying to game the system incorrectly for towncred. I do see Kaze as town trying to game the system for a confscum. It is certain from Guy's reaction that Kaze was trying to game the system somehow. I also have to admit this is flavored by my experience with him being solely in marathons, but this looks remarkably like town-kaze from those games. Added to that the gut-town feel his posts are pinging in me, I'm not gonna get behind his lynch.

And the meta I'm using is personality. He seemed arrogant enough to pull the same kind of thinking here. Particularly, the gambit seems to be well within his style, or what I would expect his style to be. That I know he has a hydra with ETL only furthers this for me. Basically, I expect that he plays in a manner very similar to Majiffy, where he doesn't particularly try to look town to the other players and does his own thing, assuming he'll be able to talk his way out of whatever corners pop up. I think that is in line with his play here. Do you disagree with any of that, or that I could have learned that from my admittedly limited experience with him? Does anyone with more experience with him care to claim that I'm wrong about his character and give me examples?

I will say that Kaze indeed tries to play like this as scum (I've done a lil' metaing). That being said, I think most of his posts feel genuine so far and I agree with your read.

@Kaze, who do you support as a good candidate for lynching?

I'm back on tool, honestly. His play here, now that I'm comparing ISOs and such, feels a lot like his play in the Newbie game ETL modded where he was scum and I was town. Plus his "Christmas vote" on CooLDoG just...makes me cringe. I must admit my NK analysis earlier today was rubbish, though. Don't know what I was thinking. Still.

Glad that you can see the issues with the nk analysis, could you try to make a more concrete case for tool? He feels off/scummy to me as well so I definitely know what you mean, but there are so many people who seem to be ok lynching him without much factual reasoning and no one really objects about it. It just seems too easy, much like cool yesterday.

Kazr, why do you feel the meta is similar? What vote is the Christmas vote? Why is it so bad? What post is your NK analysis on? If that analysis was off, why can't the meta analysis?

Shos, all accurate statements, usually. Yet the pattern just is too close to be anything but town. If he lurks or does something scummy, I will reasses. What is your beat on TSO, Kaze?

X-mas vote is #400. Kaze’s post NK is on #414, think it being terrible is the only thing me+Shos has agreed on for the last few pages. I’ll let Kaze answer the rest.

My play being that obvious feels a bit sad, but I guess the result is what matters. Once Kaze has responded, could you tell me about your feelings on TSO?

Shos posts:

Spoiler:

I'm prefacing this with a rant, because it has to be said.

Sidebar for shos:

this is how you do spoilers, TSO! lol
starting with this post, I think. if I find that I need to, I'll go back to read earlier.
So firstly, UNVOTE: . I'm not sure who I was last voting(you'll get it soon TSO no worries) but in case it was you, unvote..
I dunno if you've picked up my gameplay for the last few games: I've been sick on reaction testing lately. some times I do it more coarsely than others. This one, here, with the vote hopping, quoting myself with nonsense sentences and jumping, flipping 180s, riding a rollercoaster to my ass, well all these are provoking measures. This post - even if it is just one post in all the game - shows me that it was worth being an ass for a while.

Blatant AtE=townread, cool story. Claiming reaction test without explaining it in detail is just an unversial/scummy way of dodging poor votes.

You are right; you are terribly right. My play in this game hasn't been superb - I mean, in certain posts you can definitely see my head crumbing together everything I can and stuff, realy thinking it thorouhgly and investing time and energy, but in others, well, no. this is half reaction testing and half, well, I'm busy. Irrelevant stuff->

Other superactive games and reallife work and gf and shit kept my mind troubled

.

So TLDR: reaction tests, however long, stupid etc they are, work. A good townread on TSO is now welcome on my lap. I still maintain Naio's newtownread from before - nothing's changed and I'm not lynching these two for the while. KAze's case is debatable, but it is debatable in the future, if he lives, and if we need to debate it. so here's three people that are 150% off the lynchlist.

Why would scum lynch Kaze when we have a conf.town? This is the second time you come to this conclusion, it was flawed then, it's flawed now.

B.A.

I find myself agreeing with myself.
post 414 is wrong in its basis. killing benmage was not means to lynch you; no sane town is going to lynch you anytime soon, I guess. The good part in this is that the two dead guys are Vanilla Townies, so we really haven't lost that much. shame on benmage though he really was obvtown.. :/

What is your reason for bringing this up? Why do you want to discuss PRs? We already have one PR gone, how do you know that we have a significant amount left?

My snifit townread is strong enough to not point at him for voting tool, but well, I still dislike that

Have you paid zero attention to the game for the last 10 pages, or is this some shitty attempt to make anyone doubt that Snifit/Titus is conf.town?

interesting fact I took along the way: we hammered. in a game with plurality. that's...what does that mean? I mean if I were scum, knowing about plurality, I would stay the fuck off any mislynch at all..and actually - now that I'm looking at the wagon on him - these are MANY of my townreads, all except for taylor and except for Pinkmittens. and Pink is the one who mentioned the plurality. it doesn't make sense.

there are too many townies.

Pink's 435 is void of anything interesting. the last line, maybe, but the last three votes on the CD wagon were all from 1 conftown, 1 unlynchable, and 1 townread whose vote *lead* the rise so he's not guilty of it in any way. that's really odd. I bet guyett is watching and having fun. gotta love you mod. gotta hate you too sometimes..

So now you're townreading tool? Wasn't he ~null/leaning scum just a bit earlier in this post? That wagon rose way too quickly, and conveniently enough you and tool were the ones jumping on it right then.

PM's 428 doesn't work well with me. except the part where she's sheeping me of course.

Explain why. I've had it with your one-liners/votes without an ounce of reasoning.

the amount of not-so-rightful discredit in 437 is horrifying, and my vote must reallllllly have pissed you off, TSO, sorry

Why don't you get a room? Why would town apologize for voting someone who purposely have avoided doing anything useful for the majority of the game?

Pink:

who are your

TOWN

reads?

Snifit/titus is obvtown to everyone but you. Naio is town as fuck. I’m think Kaze is town, and I was leaning town on you+Taylor, but the last few pages have definitely made me doubt that (esp. the read on you). I was leaning scum on EK, but I like Jingle so far, ~null now.

I have to say, TSO's post made me look at PM's first few posts, and it

looks

like it's at least half serious, and that's really stupid and forced, and I dunno what to infer from it. in my gamestart post(the real content post) I simply ignored those posts, but perhaps I shouldn't have. it really does seem that PM mudslings a lot,

Yes, lets just do RVS votes for 5 pages instead. I wonder who that’d benefit.

and post 78 is really just the popular names.

Oh yeah, do notice how I was the first person voting/accusing tool. Do notice that no one ever mentioned cool as suspicious before this post. Popular names my ass. Amusing to see that you try to re-use the bs TSO wrote, despite me already refuting it, you seem to get along so very well!

92 doesn't fit with that readlist too.

Yes it does. Get back to me when your scumreads are strong on p4.

Either way I think we have at least one scum in tool, cool & shos.

What made you do the link between these three?

If you manage to read through the entire post why is fairly obvious. You're all on a opportunistic/bad wagon, Naio. Naio doesn’t appear scummy, he’s just appears to be a newbie and possibly a quick+easy misslynch. I don't see three town missing that, I don't see three scum not being tempted.

PM

: please go to post 458 by TSO and say what you have for the quotes regarding post 375. the responses in 467 are poor. rephrase, rethink, dunno, do that. "discredit" - you use that word so much - I don't think you know what it means, lol.

It was a post written in two minutes after I glanced through the thread, it’s obviously not good, but I’ve explained the thoughts I had writing it and that’s what you’re going to get. I evidently know that far better than you/TSO what the word discredit means. That being said, I am glad that I’m not the only one finding it annoying when the word gets used where it doesn't fit, cause I sure as hell was when I read through TSO's crap for the tenth time.

gonna lol @ 463 go play poker

More buddying, how cute. Absolutely nothing in #463 makes any sense.

I reaaaally don’t see two unconfirmed townies trusting each other enough to buddy as much as TSO and shos, does anyone see that conversation as normal? Seems a bit too obvious for two scum as well, should be one scum there. Shos play for the last few pages has been really strange, constant votes and no reasoning whatsoever. Claiming “reaction test” without even explaining what you were looking for is just such an easy excuse for scummy behavior. Jingles case in #515 seems decent, but I still think TSO is the more likely one. I will however go look a bit more at Shos.

TSO case coming up next...

[PinkMittens]

TSO case:

Initial selfvoting:

Spoiler:

Vote: mastin

Unvote:
Vote: TSO

Selfvoting. Why? Understandably people are curious, and you get several questions about it.

^Yeah.. I've seen scum enter trying to appear "cutesy".. with rando things liek self votes.... This lynch is a go.

Yeah, I did my best to appear "cutesy" but it just didn't work.

Come on, Benmage.

Actually, never mind. Forgot Minis actually required a public VT PM.

Well, damn it.

What does this change at all?

^Yeah.. I've seen scum enter trying to appear "cutesy".. with rando things liek self votes.... This lynch is a go.

Yeah, I did my best to appear "cutesy" but it just didn't work.

Come on, Benmage.

Ignoring the linguistics... why did you selfvote?

Reactions, of course.

Reactions, so essentially you don’t want to answer, cool. If this is a reaction test I think we’re way past that now, so why not clarify it more if you have a legit reason for self-voting?

My posts are always short, they/re never unclear, and it got reactions I wanted off Ben.

What reactions? If those are scummy, why aren’t you voting him?

Gm, I really have no interest in arguing with you, but suffice it to say you were shocking in Lock n' Stock so save your trash talk for when you actually play well.

Kaze's post is crap and I'm leaning Kaze-scum ATM.

Shos, I was basically trying to be an antagonising useless fuck and get reactions. Ben immediately jumped for it, which reads badly.

So, it reads badly that he questions a self-vote for no apparent reason? How is it strange that you jump someone who purposely is an “antagonizing useless fuck”?
It’s the third time someone pesters you about your reaction test, and you still can’t give a valid explanation for it. Why is town unable to explain their actions? What are you scared about?

TSO's case on Kaze:

Spoiler:

I'm not accusing you of doing it, I'm saying I don't think you're conftown. I do think you're town, but not to Benmage-level of CONFTOWN EXALTATION

So, he’s townreading Kaze. Cool. Except why did you try to undermine your own town read right before that? Conveniently not mentioning that you actually read him as town before you’re questioned about it. This isn't TSO simply mentioning that he doesn't think Kaze is conf.town, it's him spending half of his posts so far trying to ensure that he doesn't get read that way over doing any attempts at looking for scum.

If Benmage is scum, Kaze too is scum.

Zero reason for coming to this conclusion. Do you have any reason for saying that but to discredit Benmage and Kaze? If Benmage reacted badly to your reaction test AND him flipping gives us another scum, why aren’t you voting him?

If Benmage is scum, Kaze too is scum.

I can dig it. But how would Kaze be scum?

And do you have any strong scum reads or town reads?

My reads will come soon.

I think Kaze is good enough to easily pull a stunt like that and I can see Benmage being arrogant enough to clear his buddy.

Further pushing for that Kaze isn’t conf.town. Kaze is the strongest townread by essentially everyone else at this stage.

Claims to have reads coming soon, we never see any.

Notice VT PM is not up ---> PM Guyett ---> ask someone and don't respond until Guyett does ---> soak towncred.

I guess the absurd conclusion that “if Benmage is scum Kaze is too” isn’t enough, you have to make another flawed conclusion (see Kazes response 136->). You are making faulty claims in an attempt to drag your own town read through the mud? Why do you want that so badly?

Gm, I really have no interest in arguing with you, but suffice it to say you were shocking in Lock n' Stock so save your trash talk for when you actually play well.

Kaze's post is crap and I'm leaning Kaze-scum ATM.

Shos, I was basically trying to be an antagonising useless fuck and get reactions. Ben immediately jumped for it, which reads badly.

So, Kaze’s post is crap and you’re leaning Kaze scum now while he was a townread in your previous post (#139)? What was this incredibly scummy post that instantly made you do a 180 on Kaze? I’m isoing him, and I just can’t find it unless it’s him saying that he’s prepared to vote you (161). What an excellent reason to change your read entirely, voting you now is obviously completely unreasonable (a selfvote and two false conclusions is essentially your content at this stage, and you even admit that you've tried to be an "antagonising useless fuck"). OMGUS.

His other votes:

Benmage:

Spoiler:

So, he never votes Benmage, but I believe these posts can be considered pretty close to one:

If Benmage is scum, Kaze too is scum.

My posts are always short, they/re never unclear, and it got reactions I wanted off Ben.

Gm, I really have no interest in arguing with you, but suffice it to say you were shocking in Lock n' Stock so save your trash talk for when you actually play well.

Kaze's post is crap and I'm leaning Kaze-scum ATM.

Shos, I was basically trying to be an antagonising useless fuck and get reactions. Ben immediately jumped for it, which reads badly.

What was this in response to? Essentially all the reasons he gives is that “Benmage jumped his selfvote” which we can see in:

unvote vote TSO

T S O can you link me a town game where you ever self voted.

^Yeah.. I've seen scum enter trying to appear "cutesy".. with rando things liek self votes.... This lynch is a go.

Everyone else essentially considers Benmage a strong town-read at this stage, and that his posts so far makes sense, but to TSO the fact that he questions his self-vote is enough to scumread him? Wouldn't it be strange if no one did question you, when you (as already stated) admit to being "an antagonising useless fuck". I just can’t see how he can come to that conclusion, OMGUS? Why doesn’t he vote for him, despite voicing suspicions for him in several posts (and his only vote being on himself)? Benmage later flips town.

Snifit:

Spoiler:

Unvote:
Vote: Snifit

Now that's a response which deserves a vote.

His first real vote. This actually starts a fair bit earlier, in #150 Snifit builds a case and votes TSO:

Mittens isn't scum. Had a little gut from the early posts but more recent posts are a townie mindset.

I rescind my claim of toolend being obv. town but I maintain that his reaction to mastin is null. More recently, he's trying to be useful in #127 which is good. His #131 rubs me the wrong way but that might just be because TSO is scum.
To expand, I had a strong gut reaction to tool on the first-second page. When I get a gut reaction I try to figure out why. Sometimes I come up with a good reason but sometimes I have to stretch. I'm willing to be wrong about him.

People still voting Naio are either scum or haven't played with noob town before. Or just aren't reading the game.

Everything about TSO is awful. I'm having trouble reading any of his posts at face value. Self-vote, then the obvious posturing when Benmage calls him on it, then the useless warnings about Kaze and Benmage.
VOTE: T S O

@shos
Who's scum?

And again mentions that he finds TSO scummy in:

Struggling for something to post about. shos has been goodposting so that's good to see. The tool wagon seriously needs to die. It's holding the game back. At the very least I'd like to see why people think he's scum--Mittens, for one, is at least honest that it's a shitty wagon. I guess it's the biggest wagon and people are lazy as fuck? This is town is much better than that.

TSO needs rope but no one else seems to care enough. I liked shos' points about goodmorning so
VOTE: goodmorning

@Cooldog
What's your read on goodmorning? And why are you voting for someone who's not getting lynched?

Which TSO immediately jumps at:

Are you going to wagon hop and sheep reasoning the whole game?

Where he’s accusing Snifit of wagon-hopping and sheeping all game. It’s fairly obvious that this simply is a misrep. Snifit hasn’t been terribly active, but he’s been putting out more content than TSO so far, and even has an original case on him in #150. So, what could the actual reason be for jumping Snifit? Oh yeah, Snifit was going after TSO.

The discussion between Snifit and TSO then goes back and forth and concludes in:

You could only think that if you think I'm asking specific people specific questions at random. Or if you ignored how I've objected to the tool wagon from the start. It seems you agree with me that your accusations are bullshit though; you've rephrased your attack into something that's more of a judgement call rather than something that's demonstrably wrong.
Unfortunately for you, you've shown us no original reasoning yourself.
(PS original reasoning is overrated)

More interestingly, what's your purpose in attacking me?

Unvote:
Vote: Snifit

Now that's a response which deserves a vote.

How does that response deserve a vote? There’s nothing remotely strange with Snifits posts, infact he comes to exactly the same conclusions that I do reading through that conversation. Why is TSO accusing Snifit of not having any original reasoning, when he has none? Why is he attacking Snifit? I just can’t seem to find a valid reason for it, bar OMGUS. After this vote TSO immediately drops the case vs Snifit and goes after Kaze instead. It’s only when Snifit keeps pushing the case that TSO feels the need to accuse Snifit again:

When you waste everyone's time by quoting something and responding "lololololol", you're telling everyone that your post has no merit.
TSO already admitted that accusing me of 'only sheeping' is complete bullshit. You should probably not start.
Your reading comprehension is poor. When a sentence starts with "I guess" and finishes with a question mark, it is not a declarative sentence. I was hypothesizing that the reason tool's wagon was still around was that the town was lazy. Good Lord.
Yes, I think people are more likely to have an opinion on people that are voting for them.
If you can't imagine a world where someone self-votes for NINE FUCKING DAYS and then asks someone if they have a problem with it is not antagonizing, you have a very poor imagination.
Likewise, if you don't think it's reasonable for anyone to be voting for TSO at this point, you do not live in reality.

ooooorrrr you're just scum

I accepted that accusing you of sheeping was wrong?

You lying, scummy hypocrite

He then proceeds to keep voting Snifit once he becomes conf.town (#290), without even being clear on what the Desperado role actually does. Hell, simply coming to the conclusion that it’s a 50/50 shot is strange, a role like that would be close to entirely useless, yet he tries to convince town that this is the case. Another faulty reasoning behind a vote, yet he doesn’t unvote Snifit even after the mod confirms that there’s absolutely no way that Snifit is scum.

Kaze reads:

Spoiler:

It’s already been stated earlier, but TSO changed his reads from town Kaze:

I'm not accusing you of doing it, I'm saying I don't think you're conftown. I do think you're town, but not to Benmage-level of CONFTOWN EXALTATION

To scum Kaze:

Gm, I really have no interest in arguing with you, but suffice it to say you were shocking in Lock n' Stock so save your trash talk for when you actually play well.

Kaze's post is crap and I'm leaning Kaze-scum ATM.

Shos, I was basically trying to be an antagonising useless fuck and get reactions. Ben immediately jumped for it, which reads badly.

After Kaze voted him. He didn’t keep pursuing this case or any of the sort, it's entirely quiet until Kaze once again votes him:

Here, have a vote.

VOTE: T S O

Which immediately prompts TSO to once again call Kaze out as scum:

Here, have a vote.

VOTE: T S O

And this is why he's in no way conftown.

But he then drops it once again. Seems like voting TSO is the only way to make him scumread you.

EK:

Spoiler:

So far he hasn’t even once mentioned or looked into EK, but the second it votes him

VOTE: cooldog

tso stop being a fucking child tomorrow

-------#

Yaaay! Depression is for children.

I don't like you.

well.
so uh, the benmage kill didn't change anything in my reads since he was obvtown to me; but I understand that kill since he was a practically very wide-spread townread.
the cooldog townflip is disappointing, but I really think we can learn something from it: especially because there were TWELVE people in town at the time. the odds that there is no scum on the wagon are very slim imo; so that gives us a pool. now it may not matter much but in the future, we must remember to use this detail - whenever there's a mislynch D1, there's probably scum on the wagon..

so I'm gonna go and hit the first vote
VOTE: TSO

what was 412 for?

I agree with this vote actually.

VOTE: TSO

The defeatist attitude is very annoying. His AtE is scummy as fuck and normally AtE isn't a scum tell by itself for me, but all of this I don't get good vibes from

He immediately has something to say about their play:

Let me think, hmm.

I genuinely do not give a fuck what you think of me, EK, but your fucking horrific reasoning for voting basically sums up your play.

PM:

Spoiler:

The same regarding me, so far he hasn’t even once scumread or even mentioned me, but the second I vote him

TSO. His play makes more sense as scum than town (but doesn't really make much sense as either), and he’s being purposely anti-town. Scum will never nk him, and he can't be around for endgame, meaning that he needs to be lynched. Better to do that sooner than later (less info now than later), so I think he's the best lynch right now, just unfortunate is that we didn’t do that yesterday.

VOTE: TSO

I’m immediately the biggest scum in the game, #431 and all subsequent posts.

Pink, what are your reads?
Taylor, waiting for yours too with thoughts please

IMO EK is atm bussing TSO.

You mean PinkMittens, who openly admits there's nothing on me but is pushing a policy lynch.

Come on, shos.

Until he gets townread by a large amount of people, then he suddenly loses interest in pushing it. Something he's done a lot previously (essentially every case so far), and something he himself claims is scummy:

This is the only decent posts that PinkMittens made in the whole game, but there was no follow-up on the push on tool. If I made a huge case on a player, I'd push the damn thing hard. PinkMittens didn't, and the only reason I can think of is that one mislynch is the same as the next.

It seems like the only way TSO has of finding scum is to go after people who votes him. That might make a very slight amount of sense if he actually acted town, but with him self-voting, using AtE and even admitting to being an “antagonizing useless fuck” (#219), how is it remotely scummy that people vote him? He’s literally not even mentioning several players for the large majority of the game (Naio, tool, EK & me) and the only thing we had in common was that we didn’t vote for him/call him scummy. What reason could town possibly have for only making cases towards people who accuse him, and not actually caring about finding scum outside that circle?

His actions towards the end of D-1:

Spoiler:

Once Snifit becomes an accepted conf.town TSO becomes quiet again, merely jumping out to say:

I don't fucking believe it

In response to Kaze voting him, so still no remote interest in anything but people going after him.

He then proceeds to selfvote, do a bunch of AtE and give up in:

Just popping into say that yes, my lynch is perfectly okay. Never mind snifit being an absolute moron (Jacob play the game? What the actual fuck do you put in your formula bottle), never mind shos completely u-turning on me, don't mind any of that.

Unvote
Vote: TSO

No time and no energy. Fuck it shos, I knew this guy would immediately start a hate lynch of retribution, but I expected better from you.

And when I flip Town, I genuinely would not be surprised if scum avoid nk'ing snifit. Yeah, that bad.

Kazekirimaru.

In fairness, you showcased my point beautifully.

I could also get behind a Kaze vote but I actually want to flip at this stage

yay bipolarism!

we're definitely not lynching kaze.
TSO, I never u-flipped on you, you're confusing games, you were always scum this game

and this selfvote again, I think you're doing it to AtE by now

It's 100% AtE, it's Town not really caring. I'm basically fucking educating you on what happens when someone doesn't care anymore.

I guess town might do this if they’ll inevitably die, but TSO isn’t even the one with the most votes at this stage (Taylor is). He makes no attempt of finding scum, the only thing on his mind is the fact that he has the second most votes in the game and he makes it very clear how unhappy he is. Still without having any intention of either explaining his actions or finding scum. What town gives up over the fact that he gets three votes? What town cares so much about this that they forget any attempts at scumhunting?

Shos interactions:

Spoiler:

Past this point he makes a horrible case against me, that essentially just consists of him purposely misinterpreting my posts (won’t include that entire wall, already responded to it in 463), and throws a whole lot of AtE at Shos to make him unvote.

we're definitely not lynching kaze.
TSO, I never u-flipped on you, you're confusing games, you were always scum this game

and this selfvote again, I think you're doing it to AtE by now

It's 100% AtE, it's Town not really caring. I'm basically fucking educating you on what happens when someone doesn't care anymore.

Just popping into say that yes, my lynch is perfectly okay. Never mind snifit being an absolute moron (Jacob play the game? What the actual fuck do you put in your formula bottle), never mind shos completely u-turning on me, don't mind any of that.

Unvote
Vote: TSO

No time and no energy. Fuck it shos, I knew this guy would immediately start a hate lynch of retribution, but I expected better from you.

I'm prefacing this with a rant, because it has to be said.

Sidebar for shos:

we're definitely not lynching kaze.
TSO, I never u-flipped on you, you're confusing games, you were always scum this game

and this selfvote again, I think you're doing it to AtE by now

It's 100% AtE, it's Town not really caring. I'm basically fucking educating you on what happens when someone doesn't care anymore.

Just popping into say that yes, my lynch is perfectly okay. Never mind snifit being an absolute moron (Jacob play the game? What the actual fuck do you put in your formula bottle), never mind shos completely u-turning on me, don't mind any of that.

Unvote
Vote: TSO

No time and no energy. Fuck it shos, I knew this guy would immediately start a hate lynch of retribution, but I expected better from you.

Spoiler:

The first game I ever played with you was Mini 1462, way back in 2013. And I was pretty shit at that time, basically sheeping stronger players. In that game, you proved yourself to be one of them, and my estimation of you was high. And you more or less maintained that, until I saw you playing here. I'm giving it to you straight because I'm not fully sure you're scum and you need to hear this. Your play here is fucking awful. You of all people should know that my non-posting here isn't a scumtell; it's a sign of me being lazy and demotivated. I don't understand what you're trying to achieve with your bullshit trolling play. Mindless vote-hopping? What the fuck is this?

And I've been reaching out to you the whole game and you don't want to sync with me. I've shown you scum in #431 and #432. I've complained in #379. YOU KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE #369 IS GENUINE. You were in Mala's Medical Mafia with me. It's the exact same situation. You were wrong there, and you're wrong here too. What I'm starting to think is that you know you're wrong but you're not motivated enough to flip your reads on their head. That's what you need to do here. You know when I get into a game I can be useful but you also know when I'm not I'm a terrible, terrible player. You haven't asked me any useful questions, you haven't tried to talk to me, asked for reads, nothing. You're just standing there and getting manipulated and you don't even notice.

You still have posted NOTHING substantial on me being scummy, you still haven't gone after PinkMittens once, you still haven't done anything. You watched PinkMittens violently sidestep to avoid questions and changed your vote back so fast I'm nearly convinced you were trying to fake paranoia and you're just terrible at doing it. At this stage I'm basically done with you. If you want to actually look Town, if you want to actually contribute, it's time to step up. Otherwise, take a back seat and watch the Town crumble.]

Now, that's everything before the CoolDog lynch. I'll probably go through his other 4 posts later, but there's one that stuck with me:

I've shown the game scum in you. Keep trying to discredit me though, it amuses me how you flail when you're caught.

I don't really see how I can discredit you better than you do yourself.

shos, go to fucking Specsavers if you were convinced to vote me because of this. PinkMittens doesn't even deny discrediting me! That's yet another slip.

This is really blatant, by the way, and yet again it's one of those posts which you should look at and think, "Do we hang this scumfuck today or do we hang this scumfuck today?" Any other reaction is wrong.

So, why are you so sure that Shos is town? You state that his play doesn’t make any sense and that he should know that you’re town, you state that he hasn’t done anything yet your reaction isn’t even to consider that he’s scum (which has been your go-to for far less), it is to try to “sync” with him? You're essentially screaming for him to save you, what makes you so sure that he will and that he isn't scum? Do you know something we don't?

[PinkMittens]

That's ...god.

You spoilered me calling EK a useless fuck and spoilered 5 similar-as-shit posts involving me saying Kaze wasn't conf town. Okay.

I'll reply to it tonight, but suffice to say you've been wasting your time.

Oh don't worry, that was just two examples of what you've shown consistently through the game, that you have absolutely no interest in finding scum or reads unless said player accuses you of something. You don't go looking for scumreads, you just decide that anyone who scumreads you is scum. The only thing you care about is staying alive.

[PinkMittens]

I want to point out that I'm not cherrypicking at all in my case. It isn't part of his accusations/reads that are aimed at people who scumread him. It's every. single. one.

[PinkMittens]

You can look at his iso yourself if you prefer that, but either way tell me what you think about TSO.

Sure, I can agree with that. But the way it happened -- the timing, the waffling -- made it seem like an attempt to look like you were doing that rather than actually doing it.

and then I did do it when he became my top scum read. Yeah, it's an amazing case you got going there, if anything it indicates that my play makes sense as town.

Aren't I voting you? And I'm working on addressing stuff now.

Didn't even notice, but either way that's one weak vote. Tell me your reads for everyone else, and why. You've had 10 days to address things, time to actually get some content out.

[PinkMittens]

so, about tso.
his posts- I can feel them in my gut. they make sense, but that's a both alignment trait. That lengthy reaction test was very much worth the wait though - his mini explosion was what I needed, and it feels very townie for me. However, this is all in the 'feeling' level. so it's not really based, and you can call that just null-town.

will read PM later

Buddying a null-town makes a lot of sense.

[PinkMittens]

On the subject of Pink's nine-part magazine serial case on TSO: I can see scum motivation behind posting such a huge wall (big push to get people onto a wagon against town that she knows people would support; effort to come across as hard-working town in the light of a building wagon; distraction; etc), but she does make some good points there. I still don't see scumTSO because of his interactions with Pink, and I believe most of the things she pointed out have easy town explanations.

It's not like I wanted to post a wall, I posted essentially the same case in 460, but people don't really seem inclined to jump around to posts.


I will expect you to tell me what parts of TSOs play that have "easy town explanations", but only once he's responded properly to it.

@PM After Kaze posts his thoughts on TSO, I'll probably say how I feel about TSO generally.

However, I'm not going into much depth the way I usually do. The longer scum think I will mislynch town, the longer I live, even if I use the socratic to be sure we lynch scum. Your question is a fair question and I'd give a lot more detail if I wasn't conftown.

Fair enough regarding Kaze, but I would appreciate to get your reads before the day end since there's a fairly big chance that you die tonight.

I've given my reasons for voting you and as of right now you're basically just responding with the same thing over and over again, so I'm sorry if you feel like you've disproven my case because I disagree.

You don't have a case, but I guess it indeed is pointless for me to try to convince you of that.

Here's a quick reads list for me:

This list seems very easy to come up with on the fly, and with very vauge reasons. I would like you to elaborate a bit on it, in particular Kaze (explain his meta, you've played with him) and Shos (you've asked a bunch of questions aimed at him, you must have some feeling, especially once he responds to your last ones). Think both you and Naio are being hypocritical, you've both been lurking as hell D-2, the difference is that his D-1 looked really town.

Wrong. Completely wrong, in fact.

Sorry to break it for you, but even if people by some miracle actually think you're town my case at least makes it very obvious that your reads are poor. Have you even made a post regarding Naio yet? Either way, Naio lynch isn't happening.

[PinkMittens]

I still don't see scumTSO because of his interactions with Pink, and I believe most of the things she pointed out have easy town explanations.

Since TSO evidently has no intention of addressing my case properly you can share the explanations now.

Actually, I'm townreading you.

Could you tell me why you read TSO as town, once Tool responds to the above?

I think Jingle's scum or I want to see him under pressure. Do you think I am wrong?

Do you dislike Jingle or EK?

Legitimately, this isn't an OMGUS case. That's the crux of PM's countercase, but it's complete bullshit.

Oh, I agree that your case against me isn't mainly an OMGUS case, I think it started because of OMGUS, the case itself is essentially just you trying to misinterpret my posts as much as humanly possible.

The opportunism of PM going for me when I was down really has my hackles up, but they did it in such an underhanded way that it's scummy as shit. Look at other people: they came up 100% and said why they were doing it with real reasons. PM didn't.

Buhu. Think I'm the one who has been the most clear about why they are voting you actually.

And the countercase? Pfft. I credit it by calling it that. It can be summed up in 4 words: AtE , weak d1 and OMGUS. The first I openly admit isn't completely fake. I did get slightly emotional. If emotion is scummy, then I'll go to the noose. But it's not.

Being so defensive and focused on yourself that you go full AtE over three votes is indeed scummy. Thanks for admitting that. You can go back to selfvoting now.

The second is such a ridiculous reason to attack me for it's not even worth addressing.

That you have absolutely horrible reads and reasons, that no town possibly could come up with, is indeed worth addressing.

Then PM said my reaction to EK was OMGUS when it clearly wasn't and spoilered one post - my only EK interaction - to make the case look bigger. There's no reason for Town to do any of this. Therefore, PM is scum.

Yes, every single read, case and response you make has it's basis in OMGUS. Incase you didn't notice I spoilered every single thing in that case, since I think most people find a wall that big annoying enough regardless. If I didn't spoiler that part I bet you'd complain about that as well, very convenient for you.

[PinkMittens]

Exactly who aren't you townreading except me TSO? It must be nice to be so trusting.

[PinkMittens]

PM, It doesn't matter if I dislike EK or Jingle. They are the same slot. Replacements only tell me whether something is a player style thing or not.

Obviously it's the same slot, but Jingles actions won't necessarily be based on what EK did (that's a very poor wording, but hopefully you get what I mean).

Please trust me on TSO town for now... You two look textbook TvT.... TSO this goes for you two as well. If the three of us are alive at the end game, I'll sort you two out then. If you two keep having tunnel vision on each other, scums will be prime to take you both to the end game to be reliable votes on each other. Just table each other as scum reads for now. Plus, you gain a lot more information with associatives when the target is actually talking about someone else without pulling teeth.

I don't trust TSO as town for a second, but since you ask me I can table him and look for an alternative for todays lynch, will get to that tomorrow. What do you think about the exchange between TSO and Shos?

[PinkMittens]

Tso has started to wierd me out because a) He has Kaze as a nullread but only says scummy thing about him but for one point. B) His Taylor read. One post usually doesn't make a townread. C) the comment as to who is lynchable struck me as off d) the questions he asks Kaze "Is this true?", what else is he going to say but yeah.

Go go gadget!

No I don't

know

tool is scum, I just feel it in my bones. It's some gut, but mostly based on his posts and votes. I don't like the way he's not following up on the questions he asks. I don't like his reversal on us. I certainly don't like how he's going after naio, who is one of my strongest town reads beyond confTown Titus.

I pretty much agree with everything, but I still think TSO is scummier.

Answers in cursive

Spoiler: In answer to Pink's question about which parts of her case against TSO have town explanations, here's a few:

I'm not accusing you of doing it, I'm saying I don't think you're conftown. I do think you're town, but not to Benmage-level of CONFTOWN EXALTATION

So, he’s townreading Kaze. Cool. Except why did you try to undermine your own town read right before that? Conveniently not mentioning that you actually read him as town before you’re questioned about it. This isn't TSO simply mentioning that he doesn't think Kaze is conf.town, it's him spending half of his posts so far trying to ensure that he doesn't get read that way over doing any attempts at looking for scum.

TE (town explanation): Unsure of his read because townies can't be sure.

Unsure, sure. So unsure that he spends his time undermining his own townread over looking for scum? Doesn't make any sense.

Notice VT PM is not up ---> PM Guyett ---> ask someone and don't respond until Guyett does ---> soak towncred.

I guess the absurd conclusion that “if Benmage is scum Kaze is too” isn’t enough, you have to make another flawed conclusion (see Kazes response 136->). You are making faulty claims in an attempt to drag your own town read through the mud? Why do you want that so badly?

TE: I believe he was asked/pressured to explain how it was possible for Kaze to be scum and have pulled off that gambit, so he was answering a question. He throws out this possibility, unlikely as it may be, because he doesn't want town to skip over a potential scum player.

TSO being asked/pressured into responding to questions, yeah I don't exactly see that happening. The scenario he paints isn't possible. There's a clear difference between a townie not being sure of his town read, and TSO spending most of his time in the game to play down his (at that stage) only town read. Very convenient that he then flips entirely regarding the read, for very vauge reasons.

He then proceeds to keep voting Snifit once he becomes conf.town (#290), without even being clear on what the Desperado role actually does. Hell, simply coming to the conclusion that it’s a 50/50 shot is strange, a role like that would be close to entirely useless, yet he tries to convince town that this is the case.

TE: TSO doesn't know what a desperado is and either takes a guess or misreads the wiki page. The fact that a "50-50 chance" desperado role would be useless isn't something he would necessarily think about, given he's still relatively new to the site and (probably) hasn't modded any games.

It's possible that he simply came to the wrong conclusion, yes. That being said, it's far easier to come up with a conclusion/interpretation that benefits yourself. I don't think a town would come up with a conclusion that screws them over entirely, and not even question it enough to go look at a wiki page. I think a scum could get excited and not think twice about it.

Also doesn't explain why he keeps his vote on Snifit once it's confirmed that he's town.

It seems like the only way TSO has of finding scum is to go after people who votes him. That might make a very slight amount of sense if he actually acted town, but with him self-voting, using AtE and even admitting to being an “antagonizing useless fuck” (#219), how is it remotely scummy that people vote him? He’s literally not even mentioning several players for the large majority of the game (Naio, tool, EK & me) and the only thing we had in common was that we didn’t vote for him/call him scummy. What reason could town possibly have for only making cases towards people who accuse him, and not actually caring about finding scum outside that circle?

TE: His activity level for most of the game hasn't been that high, so when he did get on the first thing he did was respond to posts directed at/about him. When he did, he saw things that were scummy and pursued those people.

He responds to most accusations towards himself very quickly, so he does seem to keep track of the thread, he just doesn't seem interested in all at posts that aren't aimed at him. That's not the mentality of a town looking for scum.

I have much less time than I expected to have today, so we'll have to keep this short. TSO is firmly null, because most of his posts have been driven by apathy. I see a lot of ATE and not much else in his ISO, but that isn't really alignment indicative. With that said I'm always reluctant to lynch someone who promises to contribute more before giving them a chance. I'm definitely willing to give him a day or two to turn his play around.

That is not to say my patience is infinite. If TSO's promises to contribute more do not pan out I will be more than willing to lynch him.

I wonder how someone can be apathic from the start of the game. TSO has already been given chances to contribute. We can't lynch someone over just that in a day or two, we could be in mylo tomorrow. This post feels really bad to me.

What explanation do you want for my reaction test? Trust me, AtE is not something I fall for. Since when not explaining it is scummy.? What is thete to explain?

Claiming "reaction test" is an easy and convenient excuse that's hard to refute, if you notice that you get heat for a vote you make, or to simply throw around votes and statements until you see what sticks. I don't see why town can't/shouldn't explain a reaction test once it's done, should be easy to say what responses you were looking for, what said responses would tell you and what you think about the actual response you got.

Re:kaze- i have no idea where you got 'scum want to lynch kaze'. I said that todau i amnot lynching him....how did you get to that.? 0.o
I dont understand what conclusion you are even talking about.

Typo, my bad. It's supposed to read "Why would scum kill Kaze...."

Re:tool and the CD wagon.
How can you even say that i jumped the wagon? Maybe i wasnt the first voter, but i literally started it - CD was my scumread since the first read of the game.
Tool did not jump on it either. He put it on l-2 after a while on l-3, and only AFTER his vote the wagon rose so quick. But the wagoners were a dead conftown and kaze..so really nothing there.

Think starting it is a bit of a stretch, but I will admit that you did have a significant part in it. The fact that you seemed to be fine with either a Taylor or a TSO vote as well made the push seem a lot less convincing.

Tool put the wagon on L-2 11 minutes after you put it on L-3, his vote was the fourth in a day. To me that's very much part in causing the wagon to rise quickly. Why do you feel the need to defend tool? What do you read tool as right now?

Re:PRs - what a blatant misrep. How on earth do you get from my post to PR discussion???? Do you think that scum do NOT know that only VTs are dead? You dare calling me pr fishing and ask me if/how i know that town has more power? *sigh*, the hypocrisy..

VTs aren't the only ones dead, and unless you have more information than me I don't really see how you can come to the conclusion that "we haven't really lost that much". For all I know we might've lost half of our PRs by now. I'm not saying that this paragraph is terribly scummy/that you necessarily are PR fishing (though I can see the possibility), but I did get curious how you came to that conclusion, and what your motivation behind it was. I don't see why you'd rather throw counter-accusations over simply answering what should be a simple questioon.

Re:snifit: now you are just discreditting. Last i checked, we *assume* this, and not know.

Call it what you wish, but for all practical purposes this makes no difference. Until we get a confirmed cop saying that she isn't Titus is town. Considering that I do find your phrasing curious, it looks like you don't agree with this/leave a slight possibility to vote her in the future. I get that town can be paranoid (not that you seem to be apart from this), but if you aren't sure that Titus is town by now I'm not sure how you ever can feel confident about a read.

[PinkMittens]

So..while on PM's post I noticed that TSO said somewhere 'come on, benmage.' ..he said this to me too, precisely the same, just a short while ago.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5499397

VOTE: TSO

Yes, I ctrl+F ed every page on your 'search posts'. there are 150 pages, lol.


this is L-2

Also, if PM is scum, then for that superomgwtfbbqlong wall against TSO, he should get a fucking scummie. up to the townlist.

*pulls a dozen 180s in 3 posts*

Best bus ever made^^.

On a serious note, these posts make me really paranoid, but I guess I can live with it considering that it essentially ensures a TSO lynch.

@TSO. Since you're technically v/la, mind claiming somewhere in between your AtE posts? Doubt it'll change my mind, but it'd be interesting to hear.

[PinkMittens]

Okedokie, thanks for playing TSO.

Before someone puts him at L-1, and he selfvotes, could you tell me why you read Shos as town this strongly Titus?

[PinkMittens]

Yeah, I'm not going to be selfhammering.

Forgive me for not taking your word for it.

[PinkMittens]

why do you think it's a bus? that 'come on' was used twice here, and his meta shows he uses that as scum. never as town.

I was joking about me bussing TSO.

[PinkMittens]

Shos is town due to his general confusion. He sticks to his reads rather than appeasing me. He reads over the game and posts analysis. There's an outside chance he could be scum, but I don't like him as scum right now.

If you had something more concrete that'd be lovely, but looking at Shos is my next priority anyways.

I relook at every game. You should look at Kaze/TSO interactions as well. They are freaking jump out of your bones wierd. If you can't see that, you need some distance. One of you must be scum.

I agree that some of the interactions are strange (though I think the same can be said for Shos+TSO). I'll look more at this (and TSO interactions in general) once he flips and I have a bit more time (weekend).

I am having cold feet

unvote

More silly statements, refusal to claim/cooperate and a bunch of AtE/insults. No, not dropping the TSO lynch over that.

VOTE: jacobSavage

OMG just iso this crap.

We aren't doing a 180 turn towards someone whose only real scumread is inactivity (admittedly it's starting to become a decent one at this stage) at the end of the day. You can try to force content out of him tomorrow, when we have time for that. We should have rules in place to prevent this kind of play as well (see my next post).

Apparently, TSO's promises to contribute more were empty. I can't say I'm shocked, but it is disappointing. After his supervig claim I really don't see him as contributing anything at this point. That means at worst we lynch a useless townie and at best we get a scum-lynch. Either way, enough people have voiced enough opinions on his wagon that I don't think there's a better option for today in terms of information. I intend to put him at L-1 and thus self-hammer range, unless someone has objections.

Still not a huge fan of your reasoning behind it, but you can go ahead and vote.

2 days.. tool, anyone? tool?

Build a proper case for tool tomorrow if you want him dead. We aren't lynching him over TSO today, especially considering that our conf.town has him in the town pile.

[PinkMittens]

@Mod. Could you replace Jacob if we get another 48 hour period without a post from him? He's been in both prod & replacement range more than three times already, and that's not mentioning his v/la's.

[PinkMittens]

Spoiler:

JacobSavage - null
Taylor - probs Town
Naio - re-reading.
snifit - Town
T S O - Town
Emerald Kitty - Town
toolenduso - probs Towb
Kazekirimaru - no idea
PinkMittens - scum
shos - Town

Who should I be going after, Titus?

I'm genuinely having trouble conceiving scum in this game because EVERYONE LOOKS BAD

Jacob, PM, Kaze, Jingle all deserve noose.

Pick one person in the list you're scumreading.

This is the only decent posts that PinkMittens made in the whole game, but there was no follow-up on the push on tool. If I made a huge case on a player, I'd push the damn thing hard. PinkMittens didn't, and

the only reason I can think of is that one mislynch is the same as the next.

This is funny:).

VOTE: unvote

When someone is bolstering my case with bullshit, I'm changing my mind and not voting them at the moment. Yeah, TSO should have claimed but I have to be alarmed by Jingle and Kaze.

VOTE: Kaze

Jingles posts have been weirding me out more than Kazes, though I'd much prefer a TSO lynch first.

[PinkMittens]

Forgot to add this quote after the first in the spoiler above:

Titus, by the way, I lost any respect I had for you. Fucking brutal U-turn. Incredible, really.

You too, Shos. I hope you guys are scum and I can respect you manipulating town. But if you thought PM's case was, idk, convincing. Then leave.

PEdit: please go

PEdit2: If you're Town, will you re-analyse your play after this game? Please? Promise me that.

[PinkMittens]

You see, PM literally doesn't have a leg to stand on, so they resort to vague accusations and quoting my case on them against me. Great.

Think those quotes illustrate quite well what I've said before, that you scumread anyone who scumreads you and that the only thing you actually care about is staying alive. Your case is there for the awesome irony;).

[PinkMittens]

This flip messed up my entire train of thought, mildly confused right now. I'll also be fairly busy until tuesday. I will be present for short comments and the like, so I guess there's no point in calling v/la, but I won't have time to go over the thread properly or even from the start (which I feel the need to right now).

Anyways, some hungover thoughts: Considering that we have plurality voting, and not really any other options than TSO at the end of the day, I don't think the last few votes "finishing off" TSO means that much. Scum could just as easily sit back and let the plurality rule kick in over getting on a wrong wagon. That kinda leaves the people making the wagon swing towards TSO over me. Personally I know that this doesn't make much sense (does put me in a bit of a pickle today, so I guess it makes some sense) for scum either, since it was a town vs town choice for scum. This leaves that scum essentially just could do whatever they think would be more inconspicuous, which well, feels like it could be anything at this stage. Essentially I guess I'm saying that I find it troublesome to get too much information from that wagon, and that I'd like you to be open to the possibility that scum essentially could chose between two town when looking at it. Do people feel like the wagon realistically could turn/grow that quickly without scum getting on it though?

Also worth noting if you look at the wagon is that jingle essentially was on it (628, 678), just without actually voting, which if anything reads worse to me. Honestly not liking Jingle at all right now, his last few posts D-2 didn't sit well with me. Once I have time I'll look more at him and EK.

Naio NK could be for a few reasons. He did share most of Benmages reads, with the main exception that his primary scum read was Tool. That being said, he wasn't exactly pushing hard for anyone, so leaving him alive wouldn't be a huge threat. More inclined to think that it was to confuse town/not narrow down our options, due to him being fairly active it doesn't give us a huge amount of information, and he was a strong townread in most peoples eyes. The kill itself doesn't tell us that much, but the fact that he was killed over someone who was actively hunting could indicate that scum feels relatively safe at this stage. Titus was also town-reading quite a few players (strongest one being Shos, but also others 647), and a conf.towns protection is a fairly good safety-net, so this is definitely something to consider.

Not something I've done before, so I'm asking you: Would mass claim or no lynch->mass claim be a good option at this stage? Having all the PR's and their result on the table could let us draw some conclusions about the setup and narrow down the lynch pool. I guess the drawback is that subsequent turns become harder (PR's will be killed off), but at this stage it's not even sure that we'll get that far.

@Mod

@Mod. Could you replace Jacob if we get another 48 hour period without a post from him? He's been in both prod & replacement range more than three times already, and that's not mentioning his v/la's.

[PinkMittens]

I have not seen jacob within prod distance yet and he doesn't have any prods yet so no I won't be replacing him just yet. The rules are there for everyone

You can iso him and see what I mean, but as long as he stays reasonably active from now on it doesn't matter.

NL massclaim is the way to go, under the following conditions

1) We use all of the available time, unless someone has a 2-3 day vla, we put night then.
2) Everyone, with me going last, posts a final last will. If we are no lynching, anyone should suppose rightly or wrongly that they are a target. Conftowns live generally when leading the group astray, so absolutely feel ok to disagree with me. Do not be non committal however.
3) I hammer the no lynch.

Fine by me, though I'd like you to clarify what 2) means. Do you want a reads list/prefered lynch from us before the night, or something else entirely?

Regarding nl->mass claim vs mass claim right away is that we get an additional use from the PR roles with the former, but we'll lose a townie (doesn't have to be Titus, considering that she hasn't been killed yet, but it's likely). Not really enough information about the setup to tell what'd be best, but I'm leaning towards the former. It's the higher risk-reward option, and I feel like we're in bad enough shape that we need to gamble as much as possible.

Actually, on second thought, I don't mind a massclaim. Popcorn? Titus picks the first goer.

How about Titus making the entire order? If we decide to nl, she can make it today and we use it tomorrow.

[PinkMittens]

While we're at it, prod Taylor (and heads), haven't heard from it in a while.

[PinkMittens]

Looks like my irl business will take a bit longer than I thought,

I'll have to be v/la until friday.

[PinkMittens]

It's a mini-normal-balanced game. Titus, want me to claim?

[PinkMittens]

As stated I'd prefer a NL->massclaim. If Titus says that she wants it now I'll roll with that instead, but not because two players who could be scum asks me to.

[PinkMittens]

NL massclaim is the way to go

, under the following conditions

1) We use all of the available time, unless someone has a 2-3 day vla, we put night then.
2) Everyone, with me going last, posts a final last will. If we are no lynching, anyone should suppose rightly or wrongly that they are a target. Conftowns live generally when leading the group astray, so absolutely feel ok to disagree with me. Do not be non committal however.
3) I hammer the no lynch.

Actually, on second thought, I don't mind a massclaim. Popcorn? Titus picks the first goer.

How about Titus making the entire order?

If we decide to nl, she can make it today and we use it tomorrow.

What tool did is a last will Pink Mittens. All of us should post something like that.

Claim order

Jingle
Pink Mittens
Jacob Savage
Taylor
Kaze
tool
shos
Titus


That's not my personal list but it is combined with what I see the group reads list to be.

Do tell me where.

[PinkMittens]

Why are you making such a big deal out of this?

I don't see how I'm making a bigger deal out of it than you+Shos, but the fact that you try to force it makes me curious.

[PinkMittens]

You sound frightened.

Working on a fakeclaim, perhaps?

You sound like you want to lure out VT claims to narrow down the player pool for PRs. Good job getting one already.

[PinkMittens]

Nice deflection.

Goodness gracious. Every time I feel the slightest bit comfortable in even a fraction of my reads, someone has to scum it up all over again.

Hardly deflection, just didn't find it worth responding to. If you don't get why: I'm next in line regardless of if we do it now or tomorrow, and if I was scum (that somehow took several days to come up with a fake-claim) I'd simply not respond in the thread (I'm v/la).

So, tell me, why is it so important to claim right now?

[PinkMittens]

Okedokie. I'm the Jailkeeper, I jailed Snifit N-1, Titus N-2.

[PinkMittens]

While I also find JS claim very iffy I do agree that we should wait for everyone to claim first before discussing it.

[PinkMittens]

I claim very powerful townie who is conftown. :-p Seriously, I am not ccing anyone but I won't say beyond that.

PM, why did you always jailkeep me?

Well, initially I'd like to say that I have no experience with the role and that I felt really confused regarding my reads both nights (first I had been busy for two weeks over x-mas, second I just had my #1 scumread flip town) so it might not have been the best decision (well, in retrospect definitely not), but my reasoning was something along these lines:

There were three scum alive able to make the kill, and they would most likely not making their person most prone to JKs/trackers make the kill (unless they for some reason expected a watcher, but I think that's more uncommon) hence it felt like a shot in the dark trying to land it on the correct scum. Combined with me being paranoid about almost everyone during the nights, the fact that me saving a player would yield an extra lynch for town (due to desperado) and that you as conftown was a significantly more likely target than the average townie means that I went with that.


Thoughts regarding Jacobs claim: His play makes no sense as bp, hardcore lurking seems like a very bad way to draw mafia-fire. Not sure if the claim itself is completely impossible (though indeed unlikely), I guess a JK+BP could compensate a bit for the desperado role being prone to pushing mylo a day early. Doing that as scum also seems very strange considering that I just claimed JK, he should've realised that people would be sceptical about the claim. Shos statement that "he needs a reason for why he isn't dead" obviously makes no sense considering that we've yet to have a kill negated afaik, what did you mean by that?

Think I'd like to lynch him today, but there's no reason to not discuss it a bit first. You guys who have played more than me, how likely do you feel a BP+JK setup is in a mini normal? Do you think a desperado could warrant that?

[PinkMittens]

Think you should stop voting until we've come to an agreement Shos, there's still three scum alive. Simply say who you'd like to vote instead.

[PinkMittens]

I think you should die now.
VOTE: Jacob