Mini 1579: The Great Flavor Caper (Game Over)

[Titus]

We can't have a cop themed game without me... reading now

[Titus]

yay I can town read Slandaar for once

Nvm I think you're town, no need to answer that.

Pacman, these posts concern me very much about your alignment.

First, giving a townread based on the first post? That's townreading far too early.

Second, you withdrew a question based on another early townread. It's like asking townreads for clarification never occurred to you.

VOTE: Pacman

[Titus]

@Slandaar
Could you tell us your thoughts on the game?

What is this? You're pushing JoshB for more of an answer and you left this hanging?

I'm starting not to like you either.

[Titus]

@ Josh I would like to see you give a more detailed answer to what Slandaar is asking you because you avoiding it is coming off as scummy to me.

Josh_B

And you skipped Slandaar avoiding Reinoe?

[Titus]

It's hypocritical and the fact no one noticed is very odd. Also, the fact you didn't call this out in others is odd. I don't like it when you get odd Slandaar. It usually means you are scum.

[Titus]

You should have called out #115 and Chaos should have called you out. Same with Mir.

You are allowed to be hypocritical. It's not a trait associated with being town though. There's no law against it though.

VOTE: Slandaar

[Titus]

@Titus
I resent the implication that everyone should be reading as much into your crazytown scumreads as you do.

Besides even if slandaar was purposely ignoring reinoe's question, so what? What would be the scum motivation for doing that?

To push through a quick Josh B lynch, to avoid taking anything that resembles a position that can bite him on the ass... there's two there.

btw Wake... your beam is needed.

[Titus]

Why am I already in crazytown? I've proven that Slandaar is a hypocrite at best. The fact you're pushing for Josh B to answer and not Slandaar is scummy. The same standard should be applied to both.

[Titus]

That's stupid.

I'm pushing for an answer from JB because I care what his answer is.

Conversely I don't care what slandaar's answer is.

This response makes no sense. The question to Slandaar was a question about his positions on the game.

You're sheeping the non-answer of Slandaar's question.

Either you care about Slandaar's view or you don't.

[Titus]

@Mirhawk, why were you pushing Josh B to answer Slandaar's question but you wouldn't ask Slandaar to answer Josh B's? They both aren't about you. Both try to force players to give opinons on the gamestate. Yet, only one is your question.

That in "Titusese" is an associative tell. You associate the Slandaar question as your question. You have an innate liking of Slandaar. The only question is whether you hastily gave him a townread too early or are you buddies with him?

@Josh B... you need to answer that question, just as Slandaar needs to give his opinion.

[Titus]

@reinoe
No you're pretty much dead wrong, I know for a fact that both slandaar and I are both interested, but that's not what this is about anyway.

Titus says that both Chaos and I should have pressed slandaar for an answer to your question. It's not my question and I don't particularly care what the answer is so why should I be pushing him to answer? Since you and Titus are the ones who appear to be interested in his answer its your responsibility to continue pushing for it, not mine.

@Titus
It makes perfect sense, you're just being deliberately thick.

I don't care about slandaar's view, I do care about JB's answer to that question though. Those are quite obviously two separate things.

Those two things are precisely the same. Slandaar asks the question to further his views. Obviously, you think Slandaar having information and what Slandaar does with that information is important. Yet, you feel it important enough to have him keep it to himself.

The more you talk, the more I think you're scumbuddies.

[Titus]

Maybe I'd care a little more if your question hadn't been so inane.

please instruct me Mirhawk, what is inane about asking Josh what patterns he was noting on page 2 of the game that he felt worthwhile making that comment?
Why are you chainsawing Josh?

Mirhawk is chainsaw defending Slandaar not Josh. She implies that Reinoe's question was inane, not the question Josh B was supposed to answer.

[Titus]

To push through a quick Josh B lynch

If I wanted to do that I could just say I think hes making things up and vote him instead of giving him every chance to explain. Besides I have clearly not been trying to push a Josh lynch through up-to this point at all so this has no basis.

to avoid taking anything that resembles a position that can bite him on the ass... there's two there.

I have taken a position on you which you saw coming hence the pre-emptive vote on me.

I will post more opinions later but for now I feel it best not to. Obviously there is nothing wrong with me taking this stance. Which is your whole argument out the window.

Hahaha...as scum I

love

to give people chances to explain. If people confbias enough, mislynch is achieved. If not, you look like a rose for being persuaded out of a tunnel on a townie. That's a null.

You haven't taken a strong pisition on anything. Don't start down nonsense.

[Titus]

My argument was that you are accusing me of something that clearly has no basis I have been doing the opposite and you reply with 'hahaha thats null doesn't make you town!'

Hahaha indeed.

Hardly. You haven't been giving him a chance to explsin. You have been pushing a vote through on him. He's easy pickings. The whole point is I love to appeat to do that as scum. Way to twist.

[Titus]

The fact you are not voting him only adds to you scumminess. By the way, you aren't voting me either. You are pushing wagons you don't have the balls to vote for. You don't want to 1 v 1 me. Even if I lose, your buddies will be outed during the conversation. Back down. Do some real Slandaar analysis.

[Titus]

Scratch that. You are voting me. Yet you are pushing Josh B's wagon. You push me after I call you out.

[Titus]

This is the end.

You have been pushing a vote through on him.

My ONLY posts regarding Josh:

What is this?

Josh you need to answer my question.

I just don't understand.

You need to step by step walk me through it.

I actually understand it a bit better now in regards to what he said but this pattern stuff still needs explaining.

Nothing here is pushing any lynch through on anyone.

I expect Titus to be dead by tomorrow.

Your posts are hypocritical designed to push a wagon through on Josh...while not being on it. Oh Josh is a major wagon... oh he has questions outstanding, better go remind everyone.

You can want me dead for saying your shit stinks all day long. It sin't gunna happen.

[Titus]

Maybe I'd care a little more if your question hadn't been so inane.

please instruct me Mirhawk, what is inane about asking Josh what patterns he was noting on page 2 of the game that he felt worthwhile making that comment?
Why are you chainsawing Josh?

Mirhawk is chainsaw defending Slandaar not Josh. She implies that Reinoe's question was inane, not the question Josh B was supposed to answer.

no he is defending josh... including calling the question of Josh, inane, please try and keep up. His whole vote on me was for my hoping on Josh. I do not see how he is defending Saalandar... guess we read it differently.

I don't see a Mirhawk vote on you...

[Titus]

At the start of this post, I'm going to give a brief paraphrase of some parts of the game, the way I see it.

Bacde- I have unquestionable RVS meta that proves Slandaar is scum.
Joshb- bullshit, prove it.
Bacde- No, just sheep me.
JoshB- You are a liar. Don't play like that.
Bacde- Ok, here's the proof. Now sheep me.
JoshB- This game was a year ago, (unvote) You're fuckin' around, but don't play like that.
Bacde- You still don't believe me, then you're scum, "too easy".
JoshB- Bullshit, you are scum hopping from one bad case to another.
Now on to 1393

Slandaar is luurking hard. But he's townslipping like a MOFO. He posts that he is definitely town and he should definitely not be lynched.
Bacde calls it null, he never hits scum with his votes, and he's telling everyone to help him vote CoolDog. Thor gets lynched anyway.

I'll explain more this evening Sorry I was up late last night.

Come again, there is no Thor? How is Slandaar townslipping?


MirHawk... honey I am not using negative Pavlovian reinforcement. There's nothing to be "reinforced" by calling Slandaar scum.

[Titus]

Wow... now a chainsaw vote on Reinoe when we're apparently really in sync.

Slandaar-Elyse team just went up in probability.

[Titus]

I like you Reinoe, you're like mini me. If you're scum, more power to you but I think your transparently town.

Bring a glass for me. Let's sort out Mirihawk.

[Titus]

Can you explain your townread on him?

I don't see it at all. Similar to you does not mean town, just irritating.

If someone is having synergy of thought with me, particularly on day 1 it means buddying or town. Whichever case it is, I can tell relatively quickly. If we really are that in sync, Reinoe can follow my moonlogic and I can follow Reinoe's. That's town for day 1.

Also, sound logic yadda pretty clear he wants answers and open communication which town want.

[Titus]

It's because it's "moon logic" Reinoe has it. You can't explain it.

It just flows and it feels logical to us.

[Titus]

Bacde, you're agreeing with me that Slandaar needs to explain himself, but you're scumreading me for wanting answers? Ummm now that's nonlogic.

[Titus]

Bullshit.

I said it once. Elyse asked for clarification.

[Titus]

Mini 1560 -- Titus pushing against Scum Slandaar

Stop it. Slandaar is the scum. A) He has a total lack of activity and is unapologetic for such. B) His posts are reactionary C) They are designed to be reactionary D) People are pushing other "lurkers" who objectively lurk less than Slandaar with nothing else to back up the case. E) When I talk bout Slandaar, no one has anything substative to say about him. That's indicative of scum waiting on town to decide.

Link

I couldn't push the case hard because I had work commitments (wound up subbing out). That was the gist of it though. However, the vig wound up shooting him and we won.

[Titus]

hmmmm TYR with an outstanding post...

RVS a serious thing, seriously...

vote JoshB-

add on TYR's outstanding post and this is no brainer.

For now I'm retracting my random lynch vote

Unvote:Sharpest-knife-on-tree

TYR I think you bring up some great points, before I cast my vote though I want to hear Josh_B's defense.

TSO, walk me through it. What pinged you here?

[Titus]

Why do you need links josh? You have my word, which is even better than links!

Also Bacde I really think that further proof would be nice just because it would help to support your claim on rather or not we should vote Slandaar. Without further evidence though I feel like your argument is lacking since it has nothing to back up what you claim you've seen in other games.

Slandaar get in here and confirm that the last game i was in with you where you didnt vote in your first post you were scum plz

Why do you need Slandaar to tell us? It makes it hard to believe you since you are so hard press on not just giving us a link.

Look at this one here. He fully explains himself, and is completely reasonable. Though he seems niave needing evidence for something that obviously exists, he does not insinuate that I am being scummy or even use coarse language ("it would be nice")

He is town.

Lacking coarse language is a town read?

What the fuck?

[Titus]

@Bacde, no I am not. I am trying to understand you but all you're doing is putting out nonsense, which is not normal you. You're also more defensive. I'm paranoid, sure. I'm not trying to paint you as scummy. I want Slandaar dead.

@Mirhawk, yes. See Death's Diner, completed Large Theme.

[Titus]

idk Slandaar's play kinda feels like his scum meta for whatever reason.

How about, it's because Slandaar is scum?

I could use your vote man.

[Titus]

@TSO
What are your thoughts on Elise?

@Titus
Have you played against Slandaar when he was town?

I misread this given my hurriedness last night. I haven't been scum with town Slandaar to the best of my recollection.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29925

That's mini 1474. We were both town.

[Titus]

Vote: Josh B

That's not what I want to know. I want to know specifically WHY you voted for bacade this game. I don't really care what he did in that other game unless it directly relates to why you voted for him in this one.

I voted for Bacde for fake claiming to know RVS Meta. But I already said that didn't I? I know that there are RVS meta experts, I don't agree with people that are pretending to be.
Game was a year old. Maybe a false flag, so I unvoted, but still didn't like it. Second time OMGUS, but I feel comfortable with it.

I'm going to be watching to see if patterns show up. Like Slandaar lurking so hard, and bacde telling everyone to sheep him trying to lynch towns, I'm sure he should have learned his lesson by now. But it looks like he hasn't, or he's just scum.

Bacde is scum, throwing a hissy fit that his mislynch of choice isn't going through and traction is being gained on Slandaar. Join us on Slandaar. Bacde will be harder for you to get through given your wagon is an OMGUS and has fewer people. Also, if you join on ours, we get a shit ton more information.

[Titus]

Also from reading through the posts, I still feel that although Josh_B is coming off a little questionable, I am starting to question which side Titus is on so for now I am going to remove my vote.

Unvote: Josh_B

You question what side I am on? I am not sure what you mean by this. Are you wondering my alignment? Where I stand on Josh B? Or something else?

[Titus]

So you admit that he wasn't manipulative in the first place?

Hm. I'm not liking this Scummy defense of someone else. VOTE: bacde

I question his comment about being unintentionally manipulative. Because it's in question, I can't confidently affirm that he was or wasn't doing so. But... I think you know that.

Welcome to the realm of obvtown Wake. No one is unitentionally manipulative. You also have your vote on scum.

I am asking you to switch onto even stronger scum with a bigger wagon. Then tomorrow you me and Reinoe can shred Bacde to his core, likely confirming his scum status.

Then we'll shred Elyse.

Your annilhator beam, Reinoe's jaws of doom, my interstellar logic tsunamis... even if I am wrong, we still will win.

GG. Game solved.

I will chill with the inlaws for Dad's day. Expect slower responses.

[Titus]

Elyse, nice mirror language but no. Reinoe is so obvtown, he's more obvtown than ABP in that game when you were scum. Don't dare go after him.

Manipulation - Acting in a particular manner with the objective to have someone else do something.

No. One cannot be unintentionally manipulative.

Bacde has invalid logic, pushing a wagon on a weak player and has begun misting pacman. He's totally scum.

[Titus]

@Elyse, I wasn't referring to Bacde's logic on Pacman. But to further that point.. what logic? Do you have daychat with Bacde? (The reason for this question will become obvious after Elyse answers.) I was referring to the whole "unintentionally manipulative" debate. That is relevant because it places Wake in obvtown status.

@Slandaar, you have refused to post opinions for days. By the time I'm begging for opinions, a player almost certainly has gone days without posting.

@Wake, use your annihilator beam. Sort me. Have me do jumping chicken dances. I don't care. You're town.

[Titus]

#311 is really town.

I kinda disagree on Bacde-scum.

Do you mean 310? How is it townie?

[Titus]

@Bacde
I was trying to choose the best words to reflect a complete answer for Wake88 and I think that when I was skimming through I caught some of the keywords from one of your posts and they just popped up as good words to make my point with. Did not mean to copy you though

How does this make Bacde town?

[Titus]

JB's lurking is paying off, as it appears that now half the town has forgotten about him. In post 40 you claim your vote was on other "patterns" and not his RVS vote. Why did you say that seeing as how you've decided that the reason now is completely his RVS vote?

Bacde is fine, I'm more worried about reinoe and Elise. I get scum vibes off both of them.

Mirhawk, I haven't. Scum are copying a strategy I used in another game.

A) Two scum attack each other early with weak reasons then town read each other Day 1. (Venmar + Titus) compare to (Bacde + Slandaar).

B) Lynch an easy target, preferably one that makes himself easy. (TheSilverBard) & (JoshB/EvilPacman)

C) After that, create chaos and buddy with leader status.


Textbook mini 1539.

[Titus]

So you're assuming Bacde's logic, assuming that lurking is scummy by pacman because meta without verifying...you know that's sound...bullshit. Yet you cannot accept me thinking Reinoe is town because of the fact I have a town pm and she's reacting like me therefore obvtown. Sounds like you have a built in bias towards accepting whatever Bacde says, or daychat but you realized Bacde posted no logic when I asked that question.

I also take note that you side stepped the daychat question.

[Titus]

@Bacde
I was trying to choose the best words to reflect a complete answer for Wake88 and I think that when I was skimming through I caught some of the keywords from one of your posts and they just popped up as good words to make my point with. Did not mean to copy you though

How does this make Bacde town?

I ...never said it did. Bacde is Town in general.

That's what I thought you were saying. Why is Bacde town to you? Also comment on Slandaar and Elise please.

[Titus]

(Bacde + Slandaar).

I don't town read Bacde you do like making things up.

More Titus votes.

Oh really? So you scumread him then and think we're buddies? A null answer is unacceptable given the content he's posted btw.

[Titus]

After pacman was prodded, Bacde said the slot might be scum. In my experience, pacman doesn't lurk so I assumed he was calling him scum for that.

And if I had evidence of lurker town Pacman?

[Titus]

that's quite possibly the shittiest case I've ever made but I don't care. He just reminds me of me because I'm agreeing with everything he's saying.

That's how I feel about Reinoe.

Why do you feel Josh is more likely to flip scum than Slandaar? I see Josh as mislynch bait.

I don't see any logic of Bacde's at all that is decent but his early push on Slandaar.

@Slandaar, keep stalling on giving content. Just to further prove you are scum, why undecided on Bacde?

[Titus]

Except bacde and Slandaar aren't attacking each other, you're the only one who's voted for pacman so far, and the only real buddying I've seen is between you and reinoe. I don't think these games are as close a comparison as you think.

Did bacde say those things about pacman? Cause I don't remember that.

Titus, whats your position on JB? Half the discussions in town revolve around him but I don't think you've touched him.

Bacde threw a oneliner that Pacman maybe scum cuz lurk. Elyse thinks that's sound, not just valid. It's not even valid.

Bacde opened with an attack on Slandaar. They are moving towards the townread each other stage.

JB is town mislynchbait.

[Titus]

Titus' main form of defense since being called out for doing something scummy (insisting he and reinoe think the same way) has been to wave his hands and declare that my transparent behaviors are somehow scummy

Oh I wasn't aware obvtown needed a defense against obvious OMGUS from scum.

My defense is I have caught the scum. So suck it.

[Titus]

that's quite possibly the shittiest case I've ever made but I don't care. He just reminds me of me because I'm agreeing with everything he's saying.

That's how I feel about Reinoe.

Why do you feel Josh is more likely to flip scum than Slandaar? I see Josh as mislynch bait.

I don't see any logic of Bacde's at all that is decent but his early push on Slandaar.

@Slandaar, keep stalling on giving content. Just to further prove you are scum, why undecided on Bacde?

No, you insisted in a weirder manner that you and reinoe must think in the exact same manner, to the point that you awkwardly asked him to pour a drink for you to get buddy-buddy with reinoe.

Your behavior was so slimebally that it switched my read on reinoe to town

Lol. If you think I am scum, join you buddy on me. My behavior ain't slimebally. I protect town and lynch scum. I see a fellow moonlogic player who gets me...I get excited.

[Titus]

Titus if i do recall your vote on me is an OMGUS so at least get your keywords right

Get your facts right.

I never voted you. I also read you as scum first.

[Titus]

I'll keep it in mind, but it wasn't his RVS that gave him away. There are some other patterns there too that are interesting.

So basically, you pressured me for a link for no reason?

No. I pressured you for the existence of the link, not necessarily the content of the link. But the content of the link suggests that you are still a little sour about that game, and possibly trying to use it to invent scuminess when there isn't much to go on. Until, I feel like there's more likelyhood that what you say is true, or I feel like there isn't anything else to go on, I'll be looking else where and consider you on the block if he flips town.

UNVOTE: UNVOTE

I find it curious that you've taken Bacde's D1 vote on Slandarr so seriously.

It was apparent to me that he was fishing for reactions and the initial argument on Slandarr wouldn't make it past 2-3 pages. Your last sentence also bothers me "...and consider you on the block if he flips town." It seems to me you're giving yourself convenient options for a vote down the line if a Slandarr lynch were to occur.

RVS is a serious thing, I admire the skill of other players who use it as a scum hunting tool. My initial PoE is that Bacde was using it to OMGUS and then asking that I totally trust him. The only thing I feel like I can be sure of right now is that Bacde is not on the scum team with Slandar.
The meta that Bacde provided seems legit if it wasn't so old and out of date, but I'm going to be looking for partners so I moved my vote off for now.

]

How would i be sour about that game? It was over a year ago and town won

Then why would you bring it up?

VOTE: bacde[/quote]
Obvtown posting.

His whole ISO is like that. So fuck off.

[Titus]

that's quite possibly the shittiest case I've ever made but I don't care. He just reminds me of me because I'm agreeing with everything he's saying.

That's how I feel about Reinoe.

Why do you feel Josh is more likely to flip scum than Slandaar? I see Josh as mislynch bait.

I don't see any logic of Bacde's at all that is decent but his early push on Slandaar.

@Slandaar, keep stalling on giving content. Just to further prove you are scum, why undecided on Bacde?

No, you insisted in a weirder manner that you and reinoe must think in the exact same manner, to the point that you awkwardly asked him to pour a drink for you to get buddy-buddy with reinoe.

Your behavior was so slimebally that it switched my read on reinoe to town

Lol. If you think I am scum, join you buddy on me. My behavior ain't slimebally. I protect town and lynch scum. I see a fellow moonlogic player who gets me...I get excited.

So trying to gain the favor of another player in a greasy nausea-inducing method isnt slimebally?

I didnt intentionally buddy any of the people who townread me. Im just actually obvious town

Town getting along makes you nauseous we know.

While the verbal sparting is fun, I have to highlight some bullshit uou have spouted for TSO.

[Titus]

Last time i saw slandaar not make a vote in the first post he was scum

vote slandaar

You made this too easy

That's not true.

VOTE: bacde

Slandaar get in here and confirm that the last game i was in with you where you didnt vote in your first post you were scum plz

1) Asks his "scumread" to verify his meta case. Seriously, who does that

2) Calls Pacman town early...niw Pacman is lurkerscum when Josh B hits a hiccup

3) Calls Titus v Slandaar, T v T but now I am suddenly scum because he is

4) The unintentonal manipulation argument with Wake. (ISO the two together)

5) ISO me and Bacde together.

[Titus]

#47 is really fucking bad. They go through the thing, Bacde asks a good question, and he goes hyper-aggressive straight away.

Right bc Bacde is talkng out of both sides of his mouth. Hyperaggression is goid when you have scum.

They link up quicker than flies to honey.

[Titus]

Nothing has been scummy about Josh B. Sure he's inarticulate and reached one wrong conclusion. He hasn't been scummy though. Josh B has also done plenty.

Saying Josh B hasn't done bullshit is scummy.

I am not throwing a temper tantum. I am pushing a case and getting others to understand. I am rwaching out rather than calling people dumbasses.

[Titus]

I never said you called anyone a dumbass.

Not upfront is shitty for the middle of day 1. There's no pr results to hide. We all should be candid day 1. If an aswer must be delayed, then you specify the conditions by which an answer will be given.

Josh B is town. You are saying because I push an alternate scum, I am throwing a tantrum. Try harder to discredit. Your bullshit is showing.

Josh B is doing nothing of the sort btw. Keep trying. I will block mislynch attempted.

[Titus]

@Wake, defense attorneys are not obsfuscators...that's the prosecution, which more fits Bacde's behavior. Bacde is trying to push through a wagon on Josh B and stopping any wagon that may lead elsewhere.

I got bigger issues with Slandaar but consider the wagons tied.

[Titus]

Saying Josh B hasn't done bullshit is scummy

This is stupid and untrue.

Also, JB hasn't done shit. He made a scummy early vote and tried to wave it off with meta and lurking.

I love that early vote. Also, Josh B maybe posts twice a day if lucky. That's just him.

[Titus]

I never said you called anyone a dumbass.

Not upfront is shitty for the middle of day 1. There's no pr results to hide. We all should be candid day 1. If an aswer must be delayed, then you specify the conditions by which an answer will be given.

Josh B is town. You are saying because I push an alternate scum, I am throwing a tantrum. Try harder to discredit. Your bullshit is showing.

Josh B is doing nothing of the sort btw. Keep trying. I will block mislynch attempted.

Well we just agree to disagree then. Slandaar could be scum but his being upfront about his refusal to answer questions yet looks more town than scum to me. If he was still pulling this shit day three then i would be all over it.

The only reason for josh_b being town that i've seen you make is because i'm pushing it, which isnt going to fly because im town and not scum like you need to assume for that argument to make sense. Howabout you explain why you think josh_b is town and ill see what i think of it, because ive explained why he is scum.

You haven't said shit beyond lurk and his vote sucks. Well no shit you don't like his vote. It's on you.

[Titus]

Nope. None at all.

[Titus]

We arent voting josh_b because he hasnt done shit though, we are voting him because HE HAS BEHAVED IN A SCUMMY MANNER

Slandaar hasnt been scummy, he just hasnt been acting particularly townie

No he hasn't. Wanting evidence is not scummy.

Slandaar is an obvious scumfuck who needs rope.

[Titus]

No he hasn't. Wanting evidence is not scummy.

Are you on acid? This isn't the reason anyone's voting him.

I don't see a single reason beyond not being superactive why anyone is voting Josh B.

@Bacde, yeah we know you want your mislynch first so Slandaar can coach you on what is town about him.

[Titus]

There might be substance somewhere in Wakes big ass post, but It's hidden pretty well behind heaps of bad logic.

I don't see bad logic from Wake at all.

[Titus]

Umm noo that's pretty accurate. Manipulations can have unintended results but one cannot unintentionally manipulate.

No. I defend obvious town. Wake is obvious town. So is JB. You are townish even though you townread Bacde. Josh B will likely not want to lynch Slandaar bc he thinks Bacde is scum (and he thinks they are unaligned).


Bacde, every scum needs to talk to fellow scum. Saying one needs coaching is not an insult.

[Titus]

And I'm not insulted. I'm making jabs at where your logic falls apart.

Such as your entire game view being hinged on the assumption that I am scum. I can't wait for that to fall apart

My game is not hinged on that assumption. Otherwise, my vote would be on you officially. Slandaar us scum even if you are town, which is unlikely.

[Titus]

Let's say I help you lynch slandaar, what's in it for me?

Playing to your wincon if town. If scum, maybe a little towncred butnot much.

[Titus]

@Elise, Mini 1474: Desperado's revenge... everyone was a bag of lurksacks in it, so much the mod commented post game.

@Bacde, I don't promise to sheep ever. You oughta know that by now. Titus doesn't sheep. If you present good cases, I will follow. The likelihood of that occurring goes up in the astronomical event Slandaar is town.

@Josh B, No. You are listening to the scums. Stop it. You had your vote on scum, now you don't. This makes me want to cry.

[Titus]

Oh I also don't care about convincing you Reinoe is town because a) you're scum and b) she's not wagoned. :-p I read her as town and that's good enough for me.

[Titus]

Josh B... it should be obvious at this point that I want Slandaar Bacde and Elyse. However, I will reflect on what you're saying tonight.

[Titus]

@JB/SKOT, Stop it you two. You're both town. Pick from Slandaar, Elyse and Bacde. I promise you will not be disappointed.

[Titus]

Whatever I can't be bothered arguing people clearly don't read, vig, all votes to Titus.

I've totally read. So has Reinoe and anyone else voting you.

Of course you want me dead. It's an easy place to vote park since I'm not getting lynched cuz I'm obvtown. So you can just go throw yourself and you're team a pity party.

[Titus]

Josh you appear to have missed where I strung Titus up. You should read.

Funny so have I? It's a total fiction.

@Elyse, Not a chance in hell Bacde is obvtown.

[Titus]

That shit is not a claim. That's why. Rather, it looks like an express disavowment of being a vig. He really wants me dead.

I debated ccing Slandaar due to the obvious bs nature of his claim, but I won't. I won't lie to catch scum.

[Titus]

That shit is not a claim. That's why. Rather, it looks like an express disavowment of being a vig. He really wants me dead.

I debated ccing Slandaar due to the obvious bs nature of his claim, but I won't. I won't lie to catch scum.

Dude he obviously claimed vig

There are better way to deal with scum lying about bring vig than lynching them outright

How would you recommend handling that then?

[Titus]

Slandaar, asking the vig to shoot me logically means you are not the vig. I don't know how it can be sny clearer.

[Titus]

@Bacde: Slandaar, Elyse or you. I am not voting anyone else.

@All, Really, this is the most bullshit claim of vig I have seen in awhile. He's facially not the vig but everyone unvotes because there are better solutions. My god what stupidity.

VOTE: Bacde

I am not seeing tomorrow and Slandaar will go lol I guess both sides wanted Titus dead. Lynch him if he tries to pull that.

[Titus]

TLDR...we got wagon on obvSlandaar scum
During wagon formation, he asks vig to shoot me
Claims vig
Everyone accepts but me and Reinoe
Titus is pissed

[Titus]

Derp us my TLDR that bad.

Slandaar has claimed vig. His wagon dissolved.

[Titus]

Yes. His claim is bullshit.

[Titus]

@Evilpacman, I am pretty sure something got lost in translation, maybe perceived as being crazy.

Can you respond to my early post where I raised concerns about you?

TSO has a real deep read. Lol

[Titus]

Shut up scum. If town has backbone, you'd be dead already.

[Titus]

Definitely? I think that Titus's play is town. I was in a game with him recently where he was scum, and his play is remarkably different,
But If anyone is definitely town, it's me. If anyone is definitely Scum it's Slandaar. If Titus is scum, you are definitely his scum partner.
This is why Pacman's reads are definitely crap.
I think I understand a few players, but TSO WTF? Sarcasm, I hope.

Don't talk to me about alignment in question bacde, if I were scum, I would have pressed for your lynch, NOT try save your ass. Fuck it. You're the only one that I'd be uncomfortable lynching right now and SKOT, he is town.

VOTE: Titus

This can die now. Blantant survival vote. Voting a townread.

My apologies.

VOTE: JoshB

[Titus]

EPM: I will do TSO read later
Titus: nice deep TSO read
Sland: Titus read EPM's post
Titus: WAHHHHHHHHH

Anytime now. Anytime...

Titus' comment was sarcasm dude. This is why I trust Titus, because I totally get her and she is definitely town.

Ignore the obvscum. He'll be proven when I'm not dead by multiple sources.

[Titus]

He's not going to vig me Bacde. He's no vig.

Really, voting a townread is sufficient reason for me to think scum, especially when under no deadline pressure. Whatever fits your obvious tunnel though Slandaar.

[Titus]

Titus you were pretty much my only reason for not going nuclear on josh_b, can we really lynch it now?

Go nuclear.

[Titus]

He's not going to vig me Bacde. He's no vig.

Really, voting a townread is sufficient reason for me to think scum, especially when under no deadline pressure. Whatever fits your obvious tunnel though Slandaar.

Im glad you are finally seeing it now

Im going to judge slandaar by the merits of his kill, nothing else i can do at this juncture.

And when his kill doesn't exist, will you finally believe me?

[Titus]

He's not going to vig me Bacde. He's no vig.

Really, voting a townread is sufficient reason for me to think scum, especially when under no deadline pressure. Whatever fits your obvious tunnel though Slandaar.

Im glad you are finally seeing it now

Im going to judge slandaar by the merits of his kill, nothing else i can do at this juncture.

And when his kill doesn't exist, will you finally believe me?

Yes.

I doubt that slandaar doesnt have a kill, though

His team does, but I highly doubt Slandaar is a vig.

Oh I forgot one thing, JB you technically referenced an ongoing game. Don't do that again.

[Titus]

While I'd love to sign on board for that, if the mafia have a roleblocker, we are handing them a free mislynch assuming arguendo Slandaar is town. He's not, but we don't chain lynches ever.

If Josh B flips scum and no Slandaar kill, we can do a PR/VT popcorn massclaim to see if there would be enough PRs to actually substantiate.

My money is on Slandaar being SK though if he has a kill. SK goes real well with the theme too.

[Titus]

The theme of being a normal mafia game?

Why are you worried about slandaar getting roleblocked if you think he will target town anyway

Always analyze every scenario. If Slandaar is town vig, gets blocked, just don't sutolynch him. He should be lynched but never precondition lynches. Otherwise scum will setup those conditions.


Also, JB, how do you know Bacde will come back with info?

[Titus]

Unvote

[Titus]

So does that mean that we are now assuming that Josh_B is doc since there haven't been any ccs yet? Also, are we still trying to go after SKOT or are we now focusing on Wake?

Also, @Titus now that I'm starting to see you make other statements then just about Slandaar I am starting to feel more comfortable with assuming you're town

Unvote Titus

VOTE: Chaoslord

I have been.

Comments on PR situation later.

[Titus]

@Elyse, using "we" when referring to town as a townslip. Oh good grief. Oh and nice fenceshit on me.

@JoshB, a couple of things. First, if you're a major wagon that is not scum, scum won't be NKing you. There's literally no reason to do something so derpy as voting a townread. Your post in that indicated you were playing with much more of a survival mindset. Stop. Assume you will not live to see Day 2. Play that way. Also, you are assuming many things... first, scum don't buddy each other. I tend to do that a lot as scum. Second, you're assuming TSO's comments have some bearing on Slandaar telling the truth (how?)

It's also a big rule for both town and scum to kiss the vig's ass if you believe that he's a vig.

@All, we have allegedly three PRs in a 13 player game. That should be the cap with normal balancing. If anyone is a PR (don't claim what) you should probably speak up at this point.

Skot/chaos/me/Elyse/Pacman/TYR (where is that dude?)/reinoe/Mirhawk/Wake/TSO is the lynch pool unless someone else says PR. If your vote isn't in there, move it.

@SKOT/TSO -- Talk to other people. Your shitfest is getting nowhere and it's not revealing alignment for anyone.

[Titus]

unvote

- I am thinking now that Titus is just stubborn.

Look up stubborn. There's a picture of Town!Titus and Scum!Titus, albeit the scum picture is a little smaller.

[Titus]

unvote

- I am thinking now that Titus is just stubborn.

Look up stubborn. There's a picture of Town!Titus and Scum!Titus, albeit the scum picture is a little smaller.

discounting my reason for changing vote, I can always revote you...

You can. However, I find discounting known bad reasons is helpful cuz scum cannot BS townreads on me. It stops scum from whiteknighting me.

[Titus]

So does that mean that we are now assuming that Josh_B is doc since there haven't been any ccs yet? Also, are we still trying to go after SKOT or are we now focusing on Wake?

Also, @Titus now that I'm starting to see you make other statements then just about Slandaar I am starting to feel more comfortable with assuming you're town

Unvote Titus

VOTE: Chaoslord

I have been.

Comments on PR situation later.

Pretty clear. You're implying I didn't talk about anyone but Slandaar scum, which is far from the case. So I voted you. Why are you so concerned?

[Titus]

Vigs are town.

Is this true for MS.net? I've been on the site since Feb, and this is the first time I've been in a game where I actually thought a vig was an actual possibility. Where I come from (debate.org) Vigilante is almost always a TP role, or a fake scum claim. In a 12 player game like this, a town vig would sway the game heavily in town's favor, and I just haven't seen that from MS.net. From what I have seen, there's more likely to be a shit ton of VT's. Which actually makes slandaar's role claim seem like BS, so I'm not liking you defending him over it.

But if someone who has been here longer than me thinks Slandaar is a TOWN vig, and not a third party, or scum. I want to hear it.

Vigs are almost universally town, unless they are dayvigs. I've got a few games where I was a vig or subbed into a vig slot. Roughly, I've seen about 2/3 of games that have a vig, have town vigs.

Vigs are also the go to fake claim for SKs, particularly full vigs. Slandaar should be a 1 shot vig, not a full shot if he's legit or scum have more power. I've played a setup similar to this but it was (gs, tracker, 1-shot vig).

If all the PR claims are true and town, scum almost certainly have a roleblocker. Otherwise, this becomes follow the gunsmith and I've tried submitting setups with a roleblocker and mods were still concerned about follow the cop. So yeah, there's no way scum don't have a roleblocker if all claims are true.

Supposing arguendo, that Bacde is a gunsmith, it implies the presence of a vig. Otherwise, a cop is much more efficent. Given no PRs have outed after my request, I'll suppose that's not a big circle jerk and a hidden mountainous game.

[Titus]

Vigs are town.

Is this true for MS.net? I've been on the site since Feb, and this is the first time I've been in a game where I actually thought a vig was an actual possibility. Where I come from (debate.org) Vigilante is almost always a TP role, or a fake scum claim. In a 12 player game like this, a town vig would sway the game heavily in town's favor, and I just haven't seen that from MS.net. From what I have seen, there's more likely to be a shit ton of VT's. Which actually makes slandaar's role claim seem like BS, so I'm not liking you defending him over it.

But if someone who has been here longer than me thinks Slandaar is a TOWN vig, and not a third party, or scum. I want to hear it.

seriously, there is a place out there where scum claim vig... now I have heard everything.

I'd do it as a goon and assuming arguendo the only way I'd get off is claiming a PR. One more night without a scum lynch is good for the scumteam. SKOT, assume anything that has any positive utility is on the table for scum.

[Titus]

SKOT. yea, almost everyone is a PR of some sort, and VT can be cc'd, so a scum can claim TP when a cop comes back with a guilty. If there is an actual TP, usually either serial killer or survivor, they aren't going to CC because they have a joint wincon.

Nope. Town Power returns back as town. I'll assume when you say TP when you mean Town Power. If a cop has a guilty, then they are aligned with scum or are a "miller". Usual MO for millers is to claim in your first post. So anyone with significant experience on this site you can infer is not a miller.

Gunsmith is like a cop but it gets positives on vigs and sometimes SKs (depends on mod but I think this site usually gets a negative). Gunsmith gets a positive on anyone with a gun.

[Titus]

evilpacman18

1.1

Anyways, let's start with this guy. 5 said nothing. 26 falls along those lines as well. I wonder what exactly was the reason for 59. Ah, 313 as well. And, in 547, we see an unvote. No reservations there it would seem... So by 548 we see pacman saying he's reading, and he's obviously distracted by more important things like soccer.

Does anyone else see the irony in 566

? You would think someone with less than 8 posts and a proclivity for being distracted and unhelpful wouldn't vote someone else for being distracted? It's almost like a comedy, that excuse of his. Probably Scum for being the 2nd person to use random.org in the RVS, too? If something is bullshit, that excuse is it.

So, what do I honestly think?

At worst I think we have incompetent Scum trying to creep along. At best I think we have a rather wayward Townie who's both lazy and distracted, and not inclined to do much to really Town or question things. Or is that the way around...? Let's start with his poor reasoning and then branch out as to what I deeply think of his slot's alignment. One, him saying my random vote was Scummy is ludicrous, and I wonder how many others here acknowledge that as well. Secondly him saying my 101 is Scummy and full of shit is hilarious considering the man is guilt of doing far less in this game than myself. If anything is full of shit I reckon it'd be his hypocrisy and vapid reasoning in this game. Or is that deliberate? I can only wonder that sane, average player would use those reasons to vote someone off, unless, of course, it's a bluff to get a reaction out of me. In that case, congratulations.

The gut doesn't know for sure what he is or isn't. Town normally doesn't say such outrageous things unless it's some sort of reaction test. Is it better to give players the benefit of the doubt, or go psycho-paranoid and come up with books as to why he must now be Scum? It really doesn't matter what the majority thinks when it comes to giving my honest gut reads, so currently I'm torn. So, where to put him? From the median, a tad towards the dark side because most Townies don't vote like that unless it's a bluff.

⬤

⬤

⬤

◯

⬤

⬤

⬤

⬤

⬤

Dude, just use the annihilator beam to get off the fence.

[Titus]

In time, Titus.

Why the eagerness?

When you fenceshit, it makes you really hard to read. Your early stuff was pretty town, but I had somethings wrong probably (I doubt both Slandaar and Bacde are not town, although one may still be). I need something from you that takes a stance to read you.

[Titus]

You basically took a few paragraphs to say derp town or scum which logically must be true. You waffled a fair amount, but I wouldn't call what you did analysis, as whatever conclusion can be reached you can wind up where you need to be.

[Titus]

Titus

———✹

Titus, why exactly did you call me obvTown, and what changed?

———✹

Would you provide a detailed read of evilpacman, please?

———✹

Your top 3 Scumreads currently?

———✹

73 bothers me. What do you think?

Oh finally. Now we see this.

What happened... let's see here. First, two of my scumreads are likely PRs meaning my reads were shit. Second, you were behaving like obvtown and then lurked out.

I can't. No one can. I have concerns I hit upon when I first came in. Anyone who says Pacman is scum or town for certain is probably wrong or doing PoE.

Elyse, Chaos, You (no one needs to "prepare to ask questions")

*shrug* That post could be an apologetic player or could be scum. I'd interpret it as scum because I'm scumreading Chaos.

[Titus]

wait a minute

I now have no scumreads

shit!

Well, then, time to do something unlike you to shake up the game.

[Titus]

No. I'm saying that I don't care that much to appear obvTown, because that is what Scum does. I think it would help if you'd read my posts.

I have read posts, you apparently got obsessed and in a piss off with Bacde over the use of word manipulation...
you had one post where you spent time detailing a case on chaoslord. You comment that your curiosity was peaked and you cannot stop once you been peaked. You then preceded to go into lurk-a-derp mode. You come back, see the Evil packman vote and then post an OMGUS but not really post appearing to provide EPM analysis which really ends up saying nothing. An OMGUS engagement woulda been far more honest IMO, but I am an alien, so there is that.

It's not fair to say WAke's in lurkaderp when he's been daily posting. Claiming Mirhawk has been lurking is more fair.

Yeah, Wake's criticism was valid over Bacde. One cannot unintentionally manipulate.

The rest I got no problem with but it's recap.

[Titus]

Titus

———✹

Titus, why exactly did you call me obvTown, and what changed?

———✹

Would you provide a detailed read of evilpacman, please?

———✹

Your top 3 Scumreads currently?

———✹

73 bothers me. What do you think?

Oh finally. Now we see this.

What happened... let's see here. First, two of my scumreads are likely PRs meaning my reads were shit. Second, you were behaving like obvtown and then lurked out.

I can't. No one can. I have concerns I hit upon when I first came in. Anyone who says Pacman is scum or town for certain is probably wrong or doing PoE.

Elyse, Chaos, You (no one needs to "prepare to ask questions")

*shrug* That post could be an apologetic player or could be scum. I'd interpret it as scum because I'm scumreading Chaos.

Also, what do you think of these sudden silly votes on me?

The reason I don't take anything seriously Day 1 when it comes to calling people Town or Scum is precisely why in your first answer here. As for "lurking out," I'm hosting a rather large game elsewhere with 14 contentious newbies, as well as having work and, well, a life. Just a tad busy.

As for #2, why can't you provide a detailed read of evilpacman's posts? Look at his posts like I did. Read them as I read them. Then provide your thoughts on what you feel not only about each post, but on all of them put together. You can't give a detailed read of pacman right now? Bull. Sure you can. Whether you're right or wrong, give it a shot. If I can do it, and I'm barely ever on here, you certainly can do so. And as for your second part to my 2nd question, what do you make of these fellows who are voting me and declaring one way or another what my alignment is? Do you not also think they're probably wrong? I'm just curious, and I do get tired when I meet wayward resistance during the Scumhunting process.

WAIT A MINUTE. On #3, you certainly CAN prepare to ask questions. I'm not going to go berserk and start firing off a bunch of questions when they may have already been answered. Why do you think I kept rereading the game thread? Not just to find good questions, but to avoid asking questions that were already answered. Do you think it is good play to ask questions that have already been answered by others? Why Elyse and Chaos? Elyse has primarily been ignoring my posts, so I'm not sure what my guts reads on her are.

As for #4, people assume chaoslord is new. He could very well be a legit, alternate account of an experienced player. I've read that "conscious, stream of thought" posts are indicative of being a Townie. His post, #73, had an extremely long sentence in it. Does it not make you wonder that it may have been intentional? Maybe I'm paranoid, or just too curious for my own good, but I do have reservations about CL.

1) Now, you weren't there at the time shit went down. I'm not claiming strategic lurking or lurkaderp but you weren't there. Period.

2) I can't provide analysis of contentless posts. I could take apart his readwall a bit but it's mostly just conclusions.

3) No one "prepares to ask questions" in forum mafia. You clarify them by asking them. Sometimes it is good to repeat a question if you didn't understand the answer.

4) Stream of consciousness is not indicative of alignment. It's more indicative of impulsivity. I do stream of consciousness as either alignment. Wow... a long sentence as a towntell... you are giving Elyse a run for her money.

[Titus]

Sorry guys for my long absence. I went to Hampton beach with family on Friday and planned to come back Sunday but ended up staying an extra day.

I'm going to do an extensive re-read and give a big post.

Once again I apologize for being inactive.

Overapology. Apologizing twice in one post for the same thing = scum indication.

[Titus]

SKOT, I wasn't "flying" at all because I was offline. That's not flying. That's parked.

Bacde I have a few more questions, but chances are those questions will be attacked, because of who knows why. I could keep persuing the CL thread on unintentional manipulation which is impossible, but the defense attorneys in this game will hinder and stifle the process of inquiry again. I'll peruse other discrepancies, but

I

decide which ones I pursue, not you, bacde. If people Scumhunt, don't get in the way.

Wake...who are the defense attorneys, plural, in this game?

[Titus]

Ok. We have too many PRs...

Also Wake's claim is inconsistent w the implication of gunsmith...

[Titus]

Why Slandaar?

Does anyone think massclaim would be an option?

Given we have four outed hypo PRs, we might as well know the setup as scums likely do.

We should massclaim as follows

Round 1: PRs/Not PR
Round 2: PRs claim.

Popcorn to most suspicious in each round.

[Titus]

I actually think Wake's claim is bullshit and that he's town for the record. This seems like the sorta thing Wake would pull. I'll shut up about it for now, but that's what I'm seeing.

[Titus]

that is absolutely ridiculous Titus.

For anyone else I agree. Wake is a special player that takes time to get like Team Amurica.

[Titus]

the problem with that, assuming you actually believe it, is that you should be voting him because even if he is town it is better for him not to be alive. that's really cynical though and I have higher hopes for Wake as a person than I think you do.

I don't vote players for being anti-town. Even then, the way he claimed it was indicative of sarcasm.

What's the deal with higher hopes as a person? I have very high hopes for Wake. You just seem to be backhanded buddying.

VOTE: Pacman


@Bacde, no more claims unless massclaim.

[Titus]

It just seems likely to me that if we have a cop there is probably a roleblocker

Said it pages ago...

[Titus]

Reinoe, a gunsmith returns neg on sks positive on vigs. It also has positives on scum barring a scum doctor.

[Titus]

Well there goes that theory about Wake thinking we have a lying PR....

Also, how would you know all the PRs are telling the truth Wake?

[Titus]

If I were Scum, and there wasn't a 3rd party, I'd know their alignment but not their roles. That'd make it easy to fakeclaim Town Doc or Town Cop, while drawing out the real one (if any).

This implies that all people are telling the truth. If one of them was your lying scumbuddy, you would actually lack the knowledge of the setup as scum.

Ex: (Hypothetical only) Josh B is lying scum doctor. All you know is Slandaar is a vig (again assuming no third party and Slandaar not scum).
Ex: Slandaar is a scumfuck... All you know is Josh B is a doctor.

[Titus]

Titus, may I have your opinion on basic Mafia gameplay?

Of course. Always.

[Titus]

So I read through the different posts and have a few things.
First off @titus
You never really addressed my last post towards you or have really explained hy you're scum reading me especially because your original reason was crap. Also, you jump wy too quickly on claiming people are scum who disagree with you with not very good reasons for it either. But that's my opinion.

Next,
I feel that although not present much I feel evilpacman is town. His posts do not come off scummy to me.

Next,
As mentioned I feel wakes claim is crap. It seems too quick and only seems to happen to attempt to save his hide. I personally call bs on it.

vote wake88

I did. Quite succintly. Just because you didn't like the reason doesn't make it OMGUS. In fact, you're OMGUSing in response to my voting you. You townread me for shit reasons. I vote you. You start claiming OMGUS. Yeah sure kid.

Why is Pacman town? Because you want to lynch Wake?


@Reinoe, Would you believe Wake's claim if he said Deputy instead? When drafting all my mock setups, I used Backup rather than deputy. Mod gaming the mod is dangerous. I don't care for this push on Wake. Can I be sure he's town? Hell no. This push stinks, especially with Pacman herpa lurk no content shit which the major pusher on Wake is townreading...

[Titus]

@Reinoe, What do you think of Elyse, Chaos, and Pacman if Wake is town?

[Titus]

Wake is that type of player though. I've played a fair amount with him, and he's mostly been town. I've scumread him for the same reasons you (Josh and Reinoe) are. Look at the other votes on Wake. They literally suck.

@Reinoe, then can we vote the scumreads we agree on and save Wake for later?

[Titus]

VOTE: Elyse

There. We're both voting Elyse now. I'll set aside Chaos lord for later.

[Titus]

@Wake, try it sure. Do what you think is best. You don't need my permission to do anything.

@Elyse, your insistance that I couldn't have a townread on Reinoe put you on my radar initially. Then, except for Wake, you've been pushing everything in reverse of what I believe is the right response. Your play, on a gut level, also harkens back to that one game where you and Aphix were scumbuddies.

[Titus]

Yeah you pretty much did. We had a whole argument that you said that being in sync with someone logically is not a good reason to townread them.

The second reason, alone, would not suffice. However, toss it in with everything else and it is part of the reason why I scumread you.

It's not a copout to say that meta seems consistent.

You went into this trying to "explain away" the reasons why I scumread you. The problem is my reasons are valid. You've been trying to discredit everything that's come out of my mouth since I started townreading Reinoe. Now that the noose is getting closer, you feel the need to attack me directly and pretty much state no reason is good.

[Titus]

Yeah this is desperate scum Elyse. Kinda surprising.

Bacde is no longer my primary lynch target. Slandaar is his own universe. I'm pretending he's town for sake of today because he's not getting lynched. My top three choices are Chaos, Pacman and you. I scumread all three of those. Hard.

Bullshit you never accepted my townread on Reinoe. You said basically convince me your townread is valid. I have three valid reasons to scumread you.

My gut is this is consistent with your meta. Did I do research? Nope. Will I by tomorrow? Nope. I got house inspections to do. I got enough to back up what I'm saying for a scumread. Sure I could find up a wall but I got no incentive to. The only players that engage in such long as walls are scum, naive enough to think they can outwall me or Mastina. You ain't her.

[Titus]

@Slandaar - Objection: Vague...what is the comparison?

Also I did link to scum you. Anyone could see your meta.

[Titus]

Yeah Wake. It made me think you were a VT. The will you believe me now? Indicated that hey PR claimers Day 1 get away with murder, so I will claim to be one even though the claim is bad. No one ccs and we have a convo about scummy PR claimers

The tone's pretty commin to you but you foreclosed that.

[Titus]

Bacde, why do you think the potential Cop should claim, in order to test my claim? I think you know that that'd be damaging to Town, because Scum would very much like the Town Cop out in the open. In your next post you then reason that there may also be a Roleblocker if there's a Cop. It feels somewhat like back-tracking. Do you still think the possible Town Cop should claim?

Absolutely not. Yeah your claim is hard to verify but given the fact Reinoe and I don't intend to vote you, you'll be particularly hard to mislynch making a train on you even more valuable for information for later.

[Titus]

Either Josh/Slandaar scumteam, or you're lying, or you're scum.

We have too many PRs but I'm thinking Cop/Doc/Backup Cop... Slandaar scum/SK, on a team with a scum roleblocker.

This is in the mini normal forum. Bastard elements are not likely to pass.
An OP town also works with an SK increasing the kills per night.

The night will resolve itself regardless TSO.

Who are you scumreading besides Wake?

[Titus]

There is also a chance that this works like Open 544.

In that game, town and scum each had backups and original actors. Killing one triggered the other side getting a power. It also meant scum would be really reluctant to bus. I wound up winning that game with a White Flag gambit but still... I'm seeing the distinct possibility of that here.

[Titus]

The best move is to scumhunt among those who have not claimed a power role.

There's a nice shiny seat available on the Elyse wagon TSO. There's one for you too Wake.

[Titus]

We should also leash Slandaar to kill either Pacman or TYR unless they contribute something useful.

[Titus]

TSO, Consider

Town Cop
Scum Backup
Scum Doctor
Town Backup

SK

Of course, there's different variants of above as well.


Slandaar is almost certainly not town aligned. If he kills the other PRs, he signs his death warrant. If Slandaar is a vig, the Pacman TYR pool is acceptable.

[Titus]

Titus, is Wake's claim legit?

I believe it mostly. Not enough to bet the game on it but enough to say I have no plans on voting him day 1.

[Titus]

I also have a grave difficulty seeing this name of a game without a cop.

[Titus]

I don't like the chances Bade, but I also feel that the game will help resolve those for us. Scum, if they kill in that area will make the game simpler.

Lyinching Elyse is the safer, better play. My gameplay tends to be better if I'm hunting before I'm buddied/twisted too hard.

If scum make anywhere near an optimal kill, it provides us information. Slandaar gets leashed to Pacman and TYR. Worst case, we remove deadweight.

[Titus]

Bleh, unless and until I get lynched early as scum there will always be some fear of scumTitus. It's something I'm going to have to live with.

Bacde, I'm not. It's not beneficial from a strategy standpoint. If Wake is telling the truth, it confirms a cop in the game for scum. If the setup is like Open 544, we shoot ourselves in the foot. We gain more by seeing the scum night kill IMO.

[Titus]

I do not perceive you as weak though Wake.

If I was fully trusting of you, I'd invite you to the Reinoe, Wake, Titus block as we tend to think along the same lines but you're more gambity Wake.

[Titus]

What if... there are 4 scum? I know the standard is three but the game I signed up for...

I assume my game is going to be reaching signups very soon so I'll just post this now

The game's pretty pr-heavy and kinda swingy (but balanced nonetheless) so if you're an old fart who doesn't like to have fun you probably shouldn't sign up

Everything else is pretty standard, two-week gamedays, three-day nights, yada yada

4 v 9 is highly unlikely. If it was, it would be 3 v 9 with a traitor but it's unlikely.

[Titus]

I ISO'd Wake, and saw this. His vote put him at L1 when he was talking to TSO. If Slandaar hadn't replied so fast and TSO had put a vote on Slandaar, Slandaar would have been lynched.

Fine. I'll VOTE: Slandaar and you'll put him at L1 so he can claim.

Uh, no it didn't.

VOTE: josh_b

Wake, stop thinking in haste. If the vote didn't put Slandaar at L-1, what scum would actually say that without verifying? This is probably town haste here. If not, it will sort itself out, just like your slot.

Let's keep our votes and thus risk to VTs/the lurkers.

[Titus]

SKOT is also acceptable for slandaar

Im game to get elyse but honestly i prefer wake

Nope. I'm not wanting SKOT in the pool. He's been active.

[Titus]

I'm already thinking that Wake is scum, so maybe that's confbias but his vote was after the claim. So, it's not the slip I thought, but it's still just as bad.

Wake very well can be scum but if he's not we gain little while showing scum a lot. Let scum NK to get us info.

You should aldo leave a readwall.

[Titus]

Vote: Elyse

Please tell me this isn't a real vote.

Oh noees, Princess Elyse, who hasn't done shit all game, is faced with the reality that you can't sit in the corner and criticize other people all goddamn damn.

Regardless of your opinion of me, Mirhawk's vote was shitty beyond belief. Get your tunnel vision glasses off and wake the fuck up.

You haven't done much to interest me aside from your claim.

Town try to understand players and get reads on them. Once again we have Elyse sitting on the sidelines trying not to draw attention. The only time she does anything to understand players is sort post 71. Then she spends nearly half her posts trying to challenge Titus on her town read on me. Which isn't actually scumhunting.

This is just plain false. I don't have much of a read on Wake because nothing he is posting gives me a read. That's what I mean by interests me. And if half of my posts are about Titus' townread on you (a gross misrep), then two thirds of yours are about me.

I think your frustration makes you lean town but I don't have much else to say.

And yet when I have to get drunk just to address your posts you label me as scum. OBVIOUS DOUBLE STANDARD IS OBVIOUS. LYNCH HER PLEASE.

Hm?

I agree that reinoe is probably town now because of the whole font color escapade. The post Josh B quoted from the mod is very interesting. Why didn't you bring that up sooner? It makes me weary of lynching a PR atm.

I know reinoe and Titus are pushing hard for my lynch, but there is literally no case on me. I'm just asking you to actually think about why I am being voted for before you consider joining.

Right now, I want to lynch Titus. She's buddying the hell out of reinoe and pushing a shit lynch on me. Town Titus would stick to her guns and continue to push for her number one lynch.

Nope. Your first complaint was that Reinoe was buddying me. Now that it suits your purpose I'm buddying Reinoe. Nice doubleheaded coin.

Also, I'm not stupid. If it no longer is advantageous to pursue my top lynch, I won't. I am just not easy to persuade.

[Titus]

That's L-2 on Elyse btw

Me, Reinoe, Mirhawk, SKOT and Bacde

[Titus]

Josh B, can you elaborate on Mirhawk? I don't think many suspect her right now.

[Titus]

Wake,

This is Elyse's scum meta. Please tell me if you feel it is consistent here as I doubt you'll confbias it.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=32269

[Titus]

Elyse's wagon took a fair amount of time to develop.

I went from town to scum in three posts of yours?why the plea and then scumread me?

Why do you feel Mirhawk is scum?

[Titus]

Really Elyse? Then provide a better example. I don't look at the events (since PR claiming was likely out the window for you anyway) but the tone.

Tso, Elyse is so scum. Day 1 policy lynch sucks, especially when TYR is likely to be replaced.

[Titus]

1. Bullshit on you accepting my townread. You were all synergy is nit a reason for a townread.
2. Yeah, disagreeing alone isn't scummy. Having flypaper reasoning is.
3. When you get back to your computer, find a valid scum case to use for meta first since I asked for that. The fact you want to dangle town meta but you won't gather "acceptable" scum meta is an indication you don't want people looking.


@TSO, quit being the townbeard if you are town.

[Titus]

1. Josh_B

Doctor

2. Slandaar

Vig
3. Bacde
4. Sharpest-knife-on-tree

5. evilpacman18

VT
6. chaoslord54
7. Titus --- Cop or VT, tough shit not letting scum find the cop with a massclaim started by Pacman, especially if Josh is scum.
8. T S O
9. reinoe

10. Elyse

VT
11. TheYankeeReaper- He's up bc he never posts and maybe I can convince ppl that's a moronic idea to massclaim when hiding the cop is best.

12. Wake88

13. Mirhawk

VT

[Titus]

Fine. I'll start. VT. Popcorn Mirhawk. Do we have to go over people who have claimed again?

Titus you know how I knew you were scum? Because I already knew that you weren't gonna unvote by the time I was done asking you to do so. I think if you were town you would have unvoted and listened.

Yeah you knew I wouldn't unvote in five minutes. What rocket science. Add in 10:30 at night...

If we can't lynch Elyse, we are lynching Pacman.

[Titus]

I mean I knew you wouldn't be unvoting in your next post -_-

Are you trying to build a case on someone not unvoting a scumread because you asked?

Evilpacman you should vote Elyse.

And he gave me five minutes...didn't explain why Elyse was town lmfao...

If one is scum the other almist certainly is

[Titus]

I swear, this is the first time I've heard the Titus was probably in bed therefore scum argument.

[Titus]

Titus, we've potentially already putted all the town power, its in towns interest to massclaim and direct town actions now. Don't be a dolt and claim dude srsly

That supposes there is no cop. If Wake is town, there's a cop outstanding so this is a bad idea. Entirely.

I narrowed myself down to two roles. Period. It's the most protown narrowing I can do considering this play SUCKS.

I also note you skipped over Pacman's five minutes to unvote and mind change on me.


@reinoe, absolutely not. It's not in town's best interest.

[Titus]

Titus, if you are the cop trying to pretend to be a VT trying to protect the cop you've already pretty much outted yourself, so claim for the good of the town

What about VT pretending to be the cop pretending to be a VT pretending to be a cop?

Seriously, I'll wifom this shit all day. If someone else decides to wifom with me, great.

If not, we'll get more information anyway.

[Titus]

The only people you are tricking is town Titus, scum actually know what's happening. Town doesnt

Scum would know if there is or is not a cop. They wouldn't know who it was if there is a cop. So yeah, I'm staying with this unless you can explain where I am wrong.

[Titus]

We can't have a cop themed game without me... reading now

Titus, I'm pretty sure we all knew when you came in like a wrecking ball.


Please just claim so we can move on to the serious business of lynching Elyse.

That's actually an allusion to what I do for a living. It's an open secret.

[Titus]

If we don't massclaim by tomorrow I will not unvote you Titus

1 night

That's what you get

OK, but I hope you consider that she popcorned to a lurker slot.

I think he means game tomorrow.

Bacde, I think your colors are showing. You want to know who the cop is and I won't tell you. You're pissed Elyse is wagoned and Pacman just filled the wagon with shit. So you figure to fall back on massclaim knowing someone will resist because it hurts town at this point to confirm who the cop is supposing arguendo scum know a cop is in the game.

Reinoe, be my cop/VT buddy?

[Titus]

No. I ran up Slandaar and I'm running up Elyse.

I wasn't responsible for any other wagons that went to claim. I didn't want Josh B to claim (said he's probably town). I have never even voted Wake.

[Titus]

I'm not 100% certain. However, if there isn't the scum already know the game I'm playing so it doesn't matter. If there is a cop, scum won't know who it is. It is a win win considering the town doesn't need to know if there is a cop right away with the obvscum team of Elyse and Pacman.

[Titus]

I'm not sure I believe you have the scumteam down given your track record

If Slandaar is an SK, then I haven't got anything wrong yet.

[Titus]

No. We aren't lynching you today Slandaar or any other PR claimer. We are lynching Elyse.

Just look at all the resistance to lynching Elyse. Look at all the garbage posting from Pacman. It's obvious those two are scumbuddies.

[Titus]

No. I'm not. It won't prove, although I do think you are scum, you being scum 100%. As such, we are better off leashing you today to shoot either Pacman or TYR.

[Titus]

Titus, I have at no point seen anything that makes me think that slandaar is going to let you tell him who to kill. And again, Yankee is a shitty kill.

He may not want to do it, but shooting me is essentially a scum claim. Shooting anyone who could arguably be protown is a scum claim if they flip town. Thus, he's limited to the pool I suggested if he's scum or SK.

[Titus]

Elyse wagon is absolutely terrible. Sprung up and is going all the way in no time at all.

Look Titus I know you're town so please unvote. Screw the meta bullshit, screw even your read just look at this situation.
This town is disjointed and half apathetic and thrown off by all the PR claims and bullshit.
Do you seriously think we pulled a scum wagon out of our asses with deadline time to spare and not really much of a case to be found anywhere? No. And I know you hate to admit you're wrong before flips do it for you but pleeeeeease don't be stubborn and just unvote. If for no other reason than because the deadline isn't close yet.
Now I'm pretty sure one if not both of Josh_B and Wake are scum and if you unvote, I will stop being a lazy shit and do actual work and figure it out and prove it to you.
But Elyse is a mislynch, I'm sure of it.

Mirhawk is scum btw.

Titus is probably scum too tbh.
Titus/Mirhawk/Wake.
That's my call.
It also means I don't expect the Elyse wagon to subside. Sorry Elyse.

Pacman claims that I'm scum because I didn't unvote within the time period despite zero posts from other players or evidence I was fucking awake or evidence Elyse was town.

Pigs, nor that case, will fly.

[Titus]

Derp, remove the commas... they should be -- instead.

[Titus]

TSO post your case on me. I expect it to be good.

we have too much power and you're the most likely to be lying

TSO, that is accurate but that's not rock solid proof. I'm willing to gamble with my life to hit scum. Help me out please. It should be obvious that Pacman is hellbent on saving Elyse with no rational justification.

[Titus]

TSO post your case on me. I expect it to be good.

we have too much power and you're the most likely to be lying

TSO, that is accurate but that's not rock solid proof. I'm willing to gamble with my life to hit scum. Help me out please. It should be obvious that Pacman is hellbent on saving Elyse with no rational justification.

If pacman is the one acting weird, why aren't you trying to lynch pacman?

Because I have a shiny wagon already on scum and they are likely scum together.

@Pacman --- Step 1: You've conviently forgot why you were townreading me. Sure?
Step 2: This lynch has been far from easy.
Step 3: You gave me five minutes to unvote + no town case. Of course I'm not unvoting in that time period.
Step 4: This is utter bullshit. I tend to be more reserved as scum and push policy lynches.
Step 5: You realized all of that in 4 minutes. Pah.. yeah right.

[Titus]

Step 2: I ask you to be reasonable because this lynch is too easy and in a town that can't agree on shit, that almost certainly means scum are pushing it along

How is the Elyse lynch "easy"? It's coming after THREE PR CLAIMS. You seem to have come out of the woodworkd after lurk-a-derping all game just to offer some chainsaw defense.


@BACDE&WAKE
Please tell me you guys are seeing this. Elyse is scum.

Reinoe, hijack Wake's annihilator beam and paint it green. Maybe that will help.

[Titus]

@Pacman, you haven't put a real defense of Elyse beyond saying she's town. BAcde and to some extent Wake have been defending her. TSO put something that was majorly wrong. So yeah, there's plenty of resistance to lynching Elyse.

[Titus]

reinoe's UNOFFICIAL Vote Count

Elyse (5): reinoe, Titus, Mirhawk, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Josh_B
Wake88 (1): chaoslord54,
Titus (3): Slandaar, Elyse, evilpacman18
Slandaar (1): TheYankeeReaper
TheYankeeReaper (1): T S O

Not Voting: Wake88, Bacde

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline in (expired on 2014-06-25 16:00:00)

OMG U GUISE DAT COUNTERWAGON ON TITUS HAS THREE PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSISTENTLY BEING SCUMREAD AT VARIOUS POINTS IN THE GAME, LIKE OMG U GUISE.

AND TITUS TOTALLY SOFT-CLAIMED COP TOO

AND TITUS IS TOTALLY OBVTOWN TOO

The wifom we need it.

[Titus]

Reinoe just remain calm. We have near certain Pacman + Elyse.

Last scum (supposing three scum is in Slandaar, TYR, TSO, Bacde, Chaos, and Wake). My money's still on Slandaar but we'll see.

[Titus]

I already did. I popcorned TYR precisely because he wouldn't be here to halt the stupidity.

TSO why the ?

[Titus]

Why did you suddenly unvote me Pacman?

[Titus]

How am I reminding you of you?

[Titus]

No I didn't claim cop. My claim is VT or Cop.

We aren't lynching Josh B. If we lynch any of the PRs, it will be Slandaar.

TSO, my tunnels are infamous. Join onboard. We shall ride into the glorious sunset. After all, scum cannot kill us both.

[Titus]

Doc/Cop/Backup cop is not insane power if scum have a roleblocker.

If all three of those are town, it also allows for an SK.

this also totally excludes any Open 544 type analysis.

[Titus]

This is why we should fucking massclaim and out the Cop so then either our power's confirmed/scum get lynched d1.

No. Absolutely not. The presence of a cop doesn't confirm Wake's role. The absence of a cop makes it more likely Wake is lying but is not proof positive. If the scums are heavy (rolecop/roleblocker), then it can allow for a heavier town.

[Titus]

Not at all. We just need to start lynching scum rather than derailing scum wagons in order to forcefeed scum.

Do you have evidence Elyse is town or are you stalling?

[Titus]

Titus do you remember when I was against mass claiming? I was the first person to say it. I can link you to the post if you want. Please don't ignore me, let's talk.

I'll pretend you're not talking to me solely to avoid a hypothetical cop check.

Give me one good reason why Elyse is town but refuses to share her scum meta saying it's all terrible to judge her against?

[Titus]

if we have a cop, then (cop, doc, vig) one must be lying.

Best to let scum tell us which ones are telling the truth or kill a VT letting us scumhunt based on claimed actions. :nod:


Pacman, you may have been. I'm too lazy to look up context at the time of your claim.

[Titus]

@TSO/Slandaar, stop it. Lynch the scums. The rest will be sorted out by night action.

[Titus]

Cop/Vig too much power.

I've played in a game with a gunsmith vig, and all three members of the scum team didn't even know each other.

[Titus]

Well I just went along with the mass claim idea. Do you know why?

You want our power roles outed and killed?

They did a good job of doing that themselves

Well we still have an unconfirmed cop out there, but a mass-claim can solve that pesky problem.

Tomorrow.

Today we lynch Elyse or Pacman.

[Titus]

if we have a cop, then (cop, doc, vig) one must be lying.

Best to let scum tell us which ones are telling the truth or kill a VT letting us scumhunt based on claimed actions. :nod:


Pacman, you may have been. I'm too lazy to look up context at the time of your claim.

Well I just went along with the mass claim idea. Do you know why?

I got garciaed. I agree with Reinoe and Mirhawk on the most likely possibilities.

[Titus]

they are both wrong. In actuality, I still don't think a mass claim is a great idea. Several of my strongest town reads do though and I see their reasoning. So I gave in. This is called compromise. It is a respectful and intelligent to do sometimes. Unfortunately it requires one get over oneself and admit that one might be wrong....

you should try it

The great bulk of my townreads are voting Elyse. So I'll compromise with them and myself and...

keep voting Elyse.

Why is it so important she live to you? Why is she town? My vote isn't moving until that's answered.

[Titus]

take one for the team

The scum team? I don't think our

cop

town leader should take one for them.

*smacks you* Come on Reinoe. I haven't claimed cop.

[Titus]

I defended Elyse, Titus? No, I didn't.

Where did I feel this sort of manipulation before?

Kdub's GundamSEED Mafia, I believe.

VOTE: Titus

You are defending her by not saying why she's town and refusing to vote her or having meaningful discussion to see why she's town. But go ahead and try for mutually assured destruction at this point.

[Titus]

Well there's obvious scum motivation in voting me. I refuse to help scum find the cop assuming one exists. So I don't mind being an Elyse counterwagon.

TSO, please explain why Elyse was town.

[Titus]

Slandaar, stop with the obvious out the hypothetical cop game please. Your desperation is showing.

None of the arguments I posted were wrong. Do they always hit scum? No. However, my points are valid.

However, rather than just being a dick and using my town leader status to say "nahanaha can't lynch this", I will actually respond to your arguments. First, I have been looking at vote patterns, resistance to votes, speech patterns and plenty of patterns. I do it as both alignments. To scumhunt me effectively, look at the objective of my goals.

You still flat out refuse to give reads. Your reads are not transparent. That's the kind of thing scum say when they need flexibility to say their reads change "over time". Now do us a favor and answer Wake's question.

As for the cop thing, if I am the cop, town gets nothing from my confirmation. If scum turn to mislynching Wake, then it will be obvious if he flips town. If he flips scum, it will be inherently obvious that I'm less likely to be a cop at all. If I'm a VT, then it's in towns best interest to hide any cop that may exist. Regardless, forcing the scums to kill a PR necessitates them giving us information as to which claim(s) is(are) valid. We aren't lynching a PR claimer. Period. A cop/VT claimer is fair to wagon, but it's just stupid to wagon me because I'm obvtown and y'all are desperate not to lynch Elyse.

No one can give me a town Elyse case but they say the case against Elyse is wrong. Don't think so.

[Titus]

reinoe, stop. put your vote back on Elyse. Elyse is the one they don't want lynched and are desperate.

@slandaar, I'm not reinventing the wheel when reinoe already did answer your question about where I pursued patterns. It was poor form to garcia me though.

[Titus]

@slandaar, I'm not reinventing the wheel when reinoe already did answer your question about where I pursued patterns. It was poor form to garcia me though.

So, let me just confirm, you agree with Reinoe's post?

I do. It shows me recognizing patterns that you say never happened. The argument that I'm not recognizing patterns is utter shit.

Of course desperate scum call for desperate measures.

Oh and if reinoe is shot, I will fucking lynch your ass provided I'm alive.

[Titus]

1) TSO pointed out the pattern was a possibility. I did my own independent search.

2) The pattern that you and Bacde mirrored a scumgame I just won flawlessly is a pattern.

3) Moving goalposts. The pattern was and still is useful to me. Of course a pattern that calls you scum will be useless to you.

4) It's a pattern of blatantly obvtown posting from Josh B. The only thing I found scummy makes sense from a newbie PR trying to avoid getting NKed.

5) Recognizing speech patterns is something I do. You ought to know this from Death's Diner.



Again, another refusal to answer questions. Quit trying to be scummy to save Elyse.


Reinoe, vote Elyse, I got my own defense.


Wake, my point exactly why his pool should be Pacman and TYR.

[Titus]

If Slandaar's what he says he is, let's control hinm like a Serial Killer.

Precisely. All PR claimers can be controlled for one night.

Tomorrow, we finish the massclaim after scum have verified at least one of the claims as true.

We also lynch scum Elyse today.

[Titus]

Wonderful, Titus. Any other plans of yours to captivate and keep us busy?

I need more data to make plans, so that's it for now.

[Titus]

Titus, no one gives town cases on anyone. Maybe it's the vibe they get (like your townread on reinoe!!) or something like that. No one can provide a town case for TYR, so should we lynch him? Your reasoning is flawed. I proved your point wrong about me not accepting your townread on reinoe and you just ignored me and now want to string me up because no one is give you a play-by-play as to why I'm town. Get over yourself. You're either wrong or scum. Prove to everyone you're just wrong.

Policy lynches are not good day 1, especially when there's scum on the line and information to be gained.

You absolutely proved why you didn't accept it. Your whole focus was me proving it valid to you. That's not accepting a town read.


Slandaar, if those aren't patterns, anyone with a brain knows you're strawmanning. Noticing something happening once, seeing it happen again is noticing a pattern.

You are not confirmed not mafia.

You aren't answering Reinoe's questions.


Reinoe, you're right. He's not wanting to help us out because he's likely not a vig. We lynch scum though. Lynching scum and forcing him to shoot at best anti-town players is the worst case scenario for Slandaar.

[Titus]

Shooting lurkers is good play for a leashed vig. The thing that got y'all in Gundam Seed was not decided fast to leash or lynch Pie. Scum was able to play both sides of the fence.

So I'm taking control and deciding.

A leashed vig should shoot a collective scumread or possibility. That's lurkers.

[Titus]

Where's the question?

[Titus]

I thought 1145 was AtE. Claiming vig allows for you to get ccs, vig is not as common as you'd think and the doctor nay heal the fake vig. I would expect you to know that.

Elyse, context says you didn't.
E: Why townread?
T: Synergy.
E:That reason is shit. Prove him town.
T: Reason is fine.
E: You townread him. Prove he's town. That means I don't accept your read.

[Titus]

Like the doc claimed AFTER I claimed.

Can we please lynch Titus.

It's just as real of a possibility that a doctor healed fake vig with cc.

So yeah, the only confirms are bodies.

We aren't lynching me. We are lynching scum. You'll have to shoot me and get lynched if you want me dead tonight.

[Titus]

Mirhawk, that is generally what I have been seeing as well. We're getting a lot of lynch anyone but Elyse but no solid reasons why she's town.

[Titus]

So, who wants to give me the low down on the scummy-like people and short explanations? I'm going to skim the past few pages when I have time, of course.

I'll just give you the summary of everyone.

Your slot === nothing, due up for mass claim
Reinoe == obvious town
Me === Cop or Vt, obvious town
Slandaar === Claimed vig, repeatedly refuses to answer direct questions, omgus skeptics, people use double standards around him
Mirhawk == VT, probable town, strong evaluation of cases
Pacman === major lurker but for defending elyse with chainsaw, refused mass claim early, jumped on it later to try and out if cop exists if so who they are
Wake === heavy lurker early, came out with content... claimed backup cop. Scum (Elyse and co.) wanted to lynch him but I refused to lynch any PR claimer {despite Slandaar being unlikely town aligned}
Josh B === obvtown doctor
Skot == strong town lead
chaos== afk towards end of day
bacde == refuses to lynch elyse but refuses to make town case (like many who refuse to lynch her)
TSO === doesn't want to lynch Elyse but Slandaar due to believing he's probably scum

You're technically up for massclaim, but I passed it to your slot to kill mass claim

[Titus]

How many times do y'all gotta bullshit to save Elyse? It's all chainsaw to save her. I don't mind getting lynched if it is what I have to do, but it will be mutually assured destruction.

Boonskiies, can you tell me why the fuck you think Elyse is town?