Mini 1728: Circus Mafia (Game Over)

[Lapsa]

VOTE: toolenduso

[Lapsa]

what's up with that shouting?

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Lapsa]

bump

[Lapsa]

Did YOU really need to ask this question?

Did YOU really need to ask this question?

[Lapsa]

Are you bored Lapsa?

Did YOU really need to ask this question?

[Lapsa]

Hi Mario, do scum have day-chat?

do you like to know that every game?

[Lapsa]

Mafia may have daytalk without an Encryptor as long as it is announced in the game's rules beforehand.

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Keyser

[Lapsa]

Keyser is on my watch list for that oddness with the question on mafia daychat.

did you confirm your role?

[Lapsa]

VOTE: BlueMoonRising

[Lapsa]

WAIT A MINUTE. If Tool has done so much research on Keyser, why wouldn't he say there was no game where Keyser was mafia?

[TOWN: P4, W1, L3 | SCUM: P0, W0, L0 | TOTAL: P4, W1, L3]

[Lapsa]

This made me think that his saying "hey bud we are scum together did you check your role'

Blue moon, makara, and Trivium are the only names not bolded in the alive list.

[Lapsa]

town
Zulfy
Keyser Söze
Gimlear
Garmr

null
toolenduso
GrayFoxxxx
Aristophanes
BlueMoonRising
makara

scum
Trivium
JarJarDrinks
Performer

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Trivium

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

BlueMoonRising (2)- Gimlear, Lapsa

fail

[Lapsa]

VOTE: makara

[Lapsa]

VOTE: makara

[Lapsa]

VOTE: BlueMoonRising

VOTE: makara

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE: makara
VOTE: BlueMoonRising

[Lapsa]

Spoiler: 1

town
Zulfy
Keyser Söze
Gimlear
Garmr

null
toolenduso
GrayFoxxxx
Aristophanes
BlueMoonRising
makara

scum
Trivium
JarJarDrinks
Performer

town

zulfy

keyser

tool

triv

makara

null

aristo

garmr

gimlear

scum

performer

jarjar

grayfox

blue moon

[Lapsa]

I don't think these votes are having any effect

^ effect

[Lapsa]

prod successful

[Lapsa]

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:40 pm
Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:44 pm
Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:37 pm

[Lapsa]

Somebody explain this.

Mario ain't prodding Blue

+2 gmt

[Lapsa]

Spoiler: 1

town
zulfy
keyser
gimlear
garmr

null
tool
grayfox
aristo
blue moon
makara

scum
triv
jarjar
performer

Spoiler: 2

town

zulfy

keyser

tool

triv

makara

null

aristo

garmr

gimlear

scum

performer

jarjar

grayfox

blue moon

town

zulfy

keyser

tool

makara

null

garmr

gimlear

performer

jarjar

triv

scum

grayfox

blue moon

aristo

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

I get a feeling that right now scum are backing off of pigeon because its a harder wagon now that the slot is actually posting...

you are bad at this game, triv

[Lapsa]

I looked through Triv's past scumgame and his playstyle seems pretty similar here

did same and i disagree, makara

[Lapsa]

Lapsa, what did you see in past scumgame

s

that differs from what you see here?

e.g. frequency of posts

[Lapsa]

Did Triv do well that game? (To anyone around)

10/10

[Lapsa]

- "10/10" implies that Triv did well that game? His partner was lynched day 2 and triv got tracked on night 2 and was subsequently lynched.

implies that everyone can go and fucking read it, including Aristo

- Triv is town
- Triv posts his scum game and Lapsa reads it and decides that he played differently in that game
- Triv is now null

wrong assumption

[Lapsa]

two-shot cop

huh... two-shot?

[Lapsa]

I'm not going to mention the godfather tell.

Oops.

But no seriously no.

more like - Triv actually is a cop

almost voting: Garmr

//catching up

[Lapsa]

But ya asking to be investigated is definitely something townies do.

yeah, but in scum!garmr case - that's like free towncred

ofc there's chance being unable to take Triv out

but then again - chances that scum!garmr would be actually investigated are low (Triv named gray) and asking for that only diminishes them

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Garmr

[Lapsa]

Like no it doesn't it draws attention to myself

it sure does

but there's not much of you in this game.
shitty case on triv and "lapsa/performer looks like scum"

hence it's a low risk, high towncred reward.
especially since triv had already wrote he's keen to investigate grayfox

there was attention on you already - tool pressured you.
it's not that much about drawing more attention but diverting it elsewhere

[Lapsa]

i do understand your strategy of pouring honey all over your chest,
but asking for wasted investigative action on town is off-limits

[Lapsa]

i don't trust myself to keep awake with this bourbon and honey.

an easy excuse

[Lapsa]

i do understand your strategy of pouring honey all over your chest,
but asking for wasted investigative action on town is off-limits

yes yes so you admitted I'm town and slipped up. My work here is done.

also dodged my question again squirm more scum fuck.

change of tone - you ain't drunk, eerily decisiveness

i'm not aware of neighbourhoods

[Lapsa]

Sorry for trusting I'd get an answer to the question instead of a commentary upon it since I didn't, and still don't, have time to "go fucking read it"

happens

[Lapsa]

I never said i was drunk lapsa go naught yourself. I said when I'm drinking I feel tired and will go to sleep a 6 pack won't get me drunk.

i never said you were town either

[Lapsa]

Why hasn't lapsa answered my question

which question?

[Lapsa]

Also I just realized that Triv being killed tells us scum probably does not have a roleblocker.

Not getting the point of this setup speculation.

dead Triv -> no town blockers -> probably no maf blockers because balance

unsure what to think about tool mentioning that though

[Lapsa]

Lapsa votes Trivium

[L-4] (post 137)
Reason: ?

similar to yours:

WAIT A MINUTE. If Tool has done so much research on Keyser, why wouldn't he say there was no game where Keyser was mafia?

Explain to me why toolenduso NOT saying I have had no game where I was mafia is scummy.

VOTE: Trivium

Lapsa unvotes Trivium [L-2] (post 152)
Reason: ?

Lapsa must post reasons for any votes/unvotes going forward.

some bullshit

Triv was L-1

[Lapsa]

Performer

Gimlear puts Trivium back to L-1 [L-1]:

[Lapsa]

My surface impression is that he's playing cool, playing under the radar.

keep in mind that 2 PRs are dead

there isn't much room left to justify playing 'under the radar'

[Lapsa]

Hey Lapsa, why did you move triv from town to null?

i don't remember

[Lapsa]

What exactly is false?

your representation of my thought progression

[Lapsa]

- Triv is town
- Triv is now null
- Lapsa reads Triv's scum game and decides that he played differently in that game

[Lapsa]

Alright well I could see voting one of Gimlear, Performer, or Lapsa right now.

do it

[Lapsa]

Also, Lapsa, why did you vote Garmr near the end of day 1 when that was an essentially worthless vote?
That late in the day it was either lynch Gray or no lynch.
And if you had a strong scum read on him then, why are you not voting him now?

1. your question proves its worthfulness
2. time's moving

[Lapsa]

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[Lapsa]

Any thoughts on your wagon?

yes. Gimlear looks shit

[Lapsa]

Any thoughts on your wagon?

yes. Gimlear looks shit

Care to elaborate?

not really

As for a quick reads list, I currently have a scumread on Garmr and Makara and a townread on Tool and Keyser.
Everyone else is various shades of null read.

your behavior seems consistent to me

[Lapsa]

Spoiler: 1

town
zulfy
keyser
gimlear
garmr

null
tool
grayfox
aristo
blue moon
makara

scum
triv
jarjar
performer

Spoiler: 2

town

zulfy

keyser

tool

triv

makara

null

aristo

garmr

gimlear

scum

performer

jarjar

grayfox

blue moon

Spoiler: 3

town

zulfy

keyser

tool

makara

null

garmr

gimlear

performer

jarjar

triv

scum

grayfox

blue moon

aristo

dead
D1

gray (tracker)

N1

triv (cop)

town

tool

keyser

jarjar

gimlear

performer

zulfy

null

aristo

garmr

makara

scum

pidgeon

ordered by scumminess

zulfy, aristo and garmr reads are most slippery

[Lapsa]

What? Are you saying it's weird when players vote you without explaining their votes?

i find it extremely weird

[Lapsa]

You said gimlear looks like shit on your wagon and then put him down as a townread. Was that a mistake, or...?

no mistake

i guess he could be classified as slippery read but he's town in my book

What? Are you saying it's weird when players vote you without explaining their votes?

this one kind a rhymes with what garmr did at the end of the day1

but like more lame - hence harder to fake

[Lapsa]

pidgeon still fence sitting

I find this readlist very empty/unsatisfying.

^ one is missing

jarjar and zulfy hitting keyser hurts town more than 'my style'.
continuing this push - zulfy will be scumread for that (free pass for jarjar).
looks like divide and conquer

aristo is slacking off too heavily.
but i find these 2 quotes interesting:

Reading D2 to this point now to ensure my comments are accurate.

Garmr's replaced out.

likewise, gimlear. some updates would be nice to ward off paranoia

i want these people to work in unison:

tool
keyser
jarjar
gimlear
performer
aristo

[Lapsa]

I think he was trying to appear to be against the triv wagon but he still wanted triv lynched.
I see no good reason for him to move triv from town to null and then give him a weak-ass meta defense.

i still want triv lynched

[Lapsa]

pidgeon still fence sitting

[Lapsa]

I find it hard to believe someone could play a scum game the way AP has been playing

so naive

[Lapsa]

Yeah, I think I am going to vote Makara

seriously?

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Constantine

[Lapsa]

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[Lapsa]

I won't be voting outside of:

makara
Performer
AngryPidgeon

VOTE: makara


I will look at my town/town-lean/null-town-lean reads today.

for me, lynch pool looks like:

Pidgeon
Constantine

disliking makara lynch because of Pidgeon vote

what about Constantine?

[Lapsa]

understand my meta

what's your meta?

[Lapsa]

So for me it's down to aris, ap and constantine.

would like to note that i can see aristo as town.
he was similarly 'true neutral' as zulfy calls it (aka non existent) in previous game we played together

so he's like my 3rd pick. might lynch to avoid no-lynch given unsatisfactory response to pressure

[Lapsa]

No matter which way Makara flips, I am going to be pushing Lapsa hard tomorrow unless nk's have something to say about it.

you should start today

[Lapsa]

there is no 'detailed reasons'

[Lapsa]

Tell me the

undetailed

reason then.

can't read his posts as from town perspective

recent one:

Scum would know if Tri was town though, so that's one of the things I saw was fishy from mak. Unfortunately the people who want him gone on d2 before he's replaced, seem to be ignoring that he can't claim if he gets mislynched as 1 of our last PRs.

Well you specifically mentioned that he flipped Cop rather than just Town. The cop part of the flip is irrelevant. When you specified that he flipped Cop,

it looked a bit like painting someone as scummy

, using the cop flip as a subtle appeal to fear of some sort,

but nothing I'm really interested in pursuing

.

my thoughts:
then don't fucking mention things you ain't gonna pursuit.
that only opens more room for scum

it's a common scumtrick to accuse someone of baddoings in same exact way as if that's supposed to remove any responsibility (in this case - painting someone as scummy)

and what the hell is 'subtle appeal to fear of some sort' supposed to mean?



in comparison, here Gimlear starts with mocking my naked votes:

What? Are you saying it's weird when players vote you without explaining their votes?

the big difference is that Gimlear makes himself vulnerable
whereas Pidgeon dishes out vagueness and immediately backs off

[Lapsa]

finally a girl...

[Lapsa]

Foxy did you respond to this?

missed it. i hate your quote-changing style of posting.
but most of it is boring anyway

There is scum in this squad you're setting up and you most definitely should know that

^ this one's ugly though

[Lapsa]

Lapsa is posting like he did in the last game I played with him and he was town there

read it

[Lapsa]

didn't try setting up anyone

[Lapsa]

Sky is indeed at L-1. I would like to get her to go ahead and claim, so I am declaring

intent to hammer

.

^ ugly

[Lapsa]

Explain.

rushed

[Lapsa]

I guess I misunderstood then. Looked to me like you were inviting people to the cool kid's table.

oh so polite. could you cut the crap, please?

Holy shit I'm never trying that again.

^ looks like universal escape plan

why it's the important one?

were you suspecting me trying to magically blend in my scummate? Keyser?

[Lapsa]

VOTE: St Constantine the Hermit

[Lapsa]

heard today that pidgeon is like awarded mafia super player or something along those lines

[Lapsa]

What?

what what in your butt

i was tipsy - can't remember details.
just heard that you are like really skilled @ mafia game

an interesting detail

[Lapsa]

zulf, spit it out

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

makara is red

huh?

[Lapsa]

What are u asking? Did u miss the scumclaim?

catching up atm. once again mixed up replacements in my mind (thought for a moment it was makara -> const)

yeah, it looks like a scumclaim

also - Skybird seems way off when compared with game we played together

[Lapsa]

Like he kept throwing votes @ AP and const whenever thread sentiment was turning against his scumbuddy, trying to see if they could stick.

voted Const to build counter wagon to Sky

all of that has little to do with who i really would like to see lynched (Pidgeon)

if you really think that bashing me will increase your chances of survival - i don't really mind

gonna cut your neck anyway

[Lapsa]

"its interesting information"

it's a useful information

a confirmation that you are capable of pulling out epic stunts

if anything - that only reinforces strength of my scumread on you

[Lapsa]

What epic stunts have I pulled this game?

This actually makes zero sense.

Not that I expected anything else really.

if Chewbacca lives on Endor - you must acquit

i do expect. yet you never doubt yourself

[Lapsa]

Right, Lapsa is still trolling scum.

why did you mention it?

what did you meant with 'subtle appeal to fear of some sort'?

[Lapsa]

Does that answer your question?

that was a step in right direction

Re why did I bring it up. By it I assume you mean that someone told you I was a good player? Why shouldn't I bring it up. You are injecting an opinion into the game about me and calling it interesting without really explaining why you find it interesting at all.

And you clearly have no interest in talking about it

which really makes me wonder why you'd being it up in the first place. I can't think of any town motivated train of thought for having done so, given everything you've said about it.

this one's off. quoted what "it" is supposed to be:

In post 1212, AngryPidgeon wrote:
Right, Lapsa is still trolling scum.

why did you mention it?

bolded part is wrong:

it's a useful information

a confirmation that you are capable of pulling out epic stunts

if anything - that only reinforces strength of my scumread on you

did explain

clearly you have an interest in talking too much about this topic.
if there weren't that first part of your post, would definitely think that your assumption is fake

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Skybird

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Zulfy

[Lapsa]

tryinging to figure out who's the cool kid

[Lapsa]

Spoiler: zulfy & aristo scumteam pre-alpha v0.0.1

tail #467
complete: ~10%

Wait no, scum's not gonna make it that easy.
If Toolenduso is townie, just being frank about Lapsa, then Lapsa's just bad at this day 1 thing. Keyser's townread on him is still weird tho.

If Keyser and Lapsa is scum, Keyser wouldn't be townreading him so quickly, you seem like a smart player Soze,
So Lapsa-scum and Keyser-scum are mutually exclusive.
If Toolenduso scum, it suggests Lapsa scum.

TODO: compare with day1 bluemoon wagon, "legitly scum driven wagon" thing

In any case VOTE: Garmr for being so quiet.

+ points for garmr

TODO: check how Zulfy changes his reads on garmr during game

I like JarJar's point in 42 about Keyser trying to appear town with that question.

...

I'm just going to leave this here.

Also this.

So what?
He said he asks every game, and that's fine. I believed him.
His reaction to people's reactions to it is what I don't like right now.
Why did you go out of your way to find these, Tool?

Which one is it? You either believe him and it's null, or you believe JarJar and he's trying to appear town.

Also, why the need to signal everyone that RVS has ended?
We can figure that out, we're not imbeciles. That part of the post also reads as "look at me, I got us out of RVS! I'm so town!"

Stretching it. Trying to manipulate my emotions? Nah.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Trivium

no paranoia between Zulfy <-> Aristo

Soze the main point of that post is that you and Lapsa can't both be scum, but I suspect neither of you are so it's not a very useful observation.

^ zulfy style chain thing

Don't like how Trivium says Keysor is on his watch list for the question w/o an actual vote. Then later votes for the same reasoning. Why wasn't that reasoning good enough to vote in the first place? Not crazy about the wagon though cause I think a triv-keysor scumteam is unlikely and Keysey is still my top scumread.

Garmr giving keyser a town read worries me. I can understand if he doesn't agree w/ me about the daychat question being scummy. Especially w/ that link to the other game. But what has keyser done to warrant a townread? @ best he should read it as null.

I dislike this post from Zulf:

Vote: JarJar

For not baking down from an obviously bad position.

but Lapsa is also scummy.

I agree with your observation, but not your conclusion.

If it was so obvious JarJar wouldn't be pursuing that.

Keyer Soze, you haven't answered my question.

Feels like he's talking about me as if he's knows for sure I'm town

Though blueMoon targetting me does seems wierd since my position was pretty similiar to others in the thread. He says it's cause I kept pressing the issue but I don't really feel that's true. Most of it is me responding to Keyser asking direct questions


townreading Aristophanes - He seems to agree w/ me about Keyser and laid out some additional good reasoning.

townreading toola even though I'm disagreeing w/ his reads. His posts look like legit scumhunting.

upon rereading - disliked post mentioned by jjd too

TODO: formulate how so and wtf was that all about. conclusions...

Zulf could you explain your Trivium vote? You made it after responding to a bunch of Aris' points.

+ points for team

Toolenduso I'm voting Trivium because

I can't see any other motive Keyser could of had for asking whether maf. have day talk other than to appear townie. Townie doesn't need to appear townie. Therefore-

VOTE: Keyser

Really? Can't see

any

other motive? And he calls out Lapsa for a RVS vote (granted, Lapsa hasn't really talked about any of his votes) although that might just be him overlooking that it was an RVS vote, but it still raised my eyebrow. This could be just inexperienced playing, it's actually looking a lot like that to me now that I'm reviewing it, but this next thing:

Hey tooleanduso, why don't you explain your buddying with Keyser?

At this point I think the evidence points to Keyser being town

I am voting a Keyser-Tool scum team.

[Disturbing gif]

How can you hold all three positions within 3 posts of eachother?

Makes him look more like a scum who's messing up.

So what do you think of Trivium's #98 and #99?

Either brutal townie honesty or nebulous scum manipulation. Also I forgot to mention this, but the wagon on him is a good opportunity to put some big pressure on somebody for the first time in this game.

town points to zulfy

?

TODO: was zulfy first to indirectly call triv inexperienced?

reminds makara naming triv as alt

You've given out 4 town-reads so far

I wouldn't call Lapsa a townread just yet. What I was saying with the quote was that his playstyle gets mistaken for scumminess and so people should keep that in mind with reading him.

I have a gut townlean on Lapsa but I honestly can't articulate why.

Are you usually more confident with your town-reads than your scum-reads?

Interesting question, I never really considered that. I tend to second guess myself on both town and scumreads I think. If you want to look at my meta I suppose that's one thing you could look for and see if there are any differences between my town and scum games. If it is alignment-indicative for me, all the better -- you'll know I'm town.

In this game, I feel better about my townreads than my scumreads right now. Though I feel like I need to revisit JJD.

Who are your scum-reads so far?

I have a couple weak scumreads right now: Aris, Zulf and Gray. Aris for the hop onto Keyser and the other two for their hops onto Trivium. Not super confident on any of them.

TODO: try to pinpoint when exactly tool stops scumreading zulf and aris

I think I am going to get lynched. Here is a reads list for after I get lynched-
Keyser- In my book, tomorrow if Keyser is not dead and I am, you should kill him. And if he is scum, kill tool next. Yes, I still think they are a scum team. Honestly though, I admit some of his questions seem legitimate and solid. Than again, some seem like he is going for specific answers to incriminate them.
Tool- Tool gives some good points on who he thinks is scum, but doesn't seem to be moving the game along very much. He doesn't seem to have opinions on who is mafia as much as who is not.
Lapsa- Lapsa doesn't seem to be helping the town very much either. I get that he has a different play style, but does that prevent him from doing ANY scumhunting or having ANY visible opinions on the game whatsoever? Still, I feel like there may be more than meets the eye, so I have a town lean on him.
Gimlear- Gimlear has 5 posts. I think his recent post seems odd and bandwagonily opportunistic so I want him to give at least one reason no-one else has said already for bandwagoning me. I have a scumlean on him for obvious lurking.
Zulfy- I think Zulfy seems genuine enough with his opinions, seems overall townie to me.
Performer- I honestly don't know how to read performer.
JarJar- Good, solid back of reason and questioning. Fairly solid town read.
Alright, who is going to intent to hammer?

keyser, tool == scum && zulfy == town
^ jjd town read fucks it up
nothing on Aristo

Aristophanes you just gonna ignore my assault on you?

Nvm, but I expect an answer when you come back.

TODO: i rly can't remember there has been an assault

JarJar’s Post 125 gives me bad bad vibes.

care to expound?

Justifying voting Keyser only because its a popular wagon.

You need to reread that post dude.

I'm seeing the same thing he's seeing. Please clarify it.

defending makara

TODO: check how's jjd #125 'justifying voting keyser only because its a popular wagon'. can't remember such thing

@BlueMoonRising, how come your vote is on Jarjar?

reads incoming

hmm. makara just said #125 gives bad vibes yet have problems with bmr

+ points for pidgeon

VOTE: makara

Just saw Tri's recent post, and that's striking me as frustrated town .

UNVOTE: Trivium

How about the fact that he's yet to even

acknowledge

the points made against him? Don't that strike you as just a tiny bit scummy?

Trivium

this one's strange

i remember Zulfy saying that he unvoted triv because he looked inexperienced
TODO: check that

yet here it seems that he still calls out heavy suspicion on triv despite that he promised to give way out and have already acknowledged that triv looks inexperienced

Congrats Fox have fun with that

Soze, why does my pre-associative flip unnerve you? Why not mention it earlier?

Trivium should be lynched today, i don't understand why we're just letting him slide. His lack of cooperation is killing any sort of leniency I might have had for him before, he hasn't done much other than talk about all the things he's going to do.

still having problems with triv

TODO: check if Zulfy explicitly drops his scumread on triv later on and how plausible it seems

Makara how you feeling about Aristophanes?
Garmr did you explain 143?
Performer, what's so genuine about JarJar's 153?

Pedit: Tool, I at least want BlueMoon to get the same amount of leniency that Trivium had during his wagon, I don't think he's had a chance to respond. I don't mind a lynch on him, but I'd much much much prefer a lynch on Trivium. I won't vote for him until I feel he's had a chance to respond. I don't get the scumreads on him, to me he seems null. So no vote from me until then.

shit's getting interesting

heavily diluted though. on purpose?

TODO: check if zulfy continues chasing makara about read on aristo

Makara you've yet to answer me.

zulfy does

and makara replies

Makara how you feeling about Aristophanes?

He's still a null read to me. I don't like his style of posting a big long catchup, posting a bit of fluff and then another big long catch up although I can be guilty of this sometimes. Ideally I would like steady contribution, but I know firsthand that sometimes that isn't possible. I think the content of his posts is good though and seems to spark discussion and have good insight. I will probably be able to get a much better read on him d2. I am also eagerly awaitng part two !

makara null-reading aristo

dislikes posting style, praises content

gives free pass till day2

TODO: part two? did i miss aristo promising part two of what? what is part two?

TODO: check how he read aristo before this

Thinking things over, I DO mind a lynch on bluemoon, he hasn't even been lurking, inactive is the better word.

Tool what makes Blue look scummy to you?

last quote is shit

tool wrote his interpretation on my timestamps, zulfy directs that as an attack on blue?

meh blue moon monkey man could be scum but it's pretty murky would perfer to lynch someone who is active and scummy. Aka trivium,lapsa or performer.

Lapsa/Performer? On what grounds?

I have gotten icky vibes from BlueMoon when skimming the first time, so I will post my

Intent to hammer

but not for a couple of days.

No way should you be posting your intent to hammer - you still need to catch up with the thread and post your re-reads of everyone.

VOTE: Aristophanes

Are you voting for him based on this alone?

ugly chaining

as if defence on lapsa/performer (especially on me since i've been given free towncred for nothing - because meta) strengthens defence of aristo

zulfy did some tricky chaining shit before

TODO: check what exactly

something about keyser scum mutex lapsa scum

Aris

- townread. Sure he only has like 2 posts w/ any real content but I like em.

He seems to have very similar thoughts to me.

Keyser

- I think I'm townleaning now. The daytalk question was proved to be non-alignment indicative though I didn't like how he initially responded to the pressure. But he hasn't really done anything else since then that reads scummy to me despite being superactive.

Gimlear

- mostly null maybe a slight townlean

due to him having similar reads to me

and asking some decent questions. Would like him to post more.

Zulfy

- null. I got some scum pings from him early game cause

I felt like he was buddying me

but other than that I like his posts.

Performer

- I definitely don't have a problem w/ people scumreading him cause he does come across pretty scummy. I'm just hesitant cause like I said, I lead a mislynch on him in the one game we played together so it's definitely possible for him to be scummy as town. null for now

makara

- was gonna say null but after a reread I think I'm slightly scumleaning. Most of his posts are pretty contentless. The only thing he's really given us was his one readlist. Would like to see more from him as well.

Garmr

- scumleaning. I feel like alot of his reasoning is empty. Giving keyser that early townread cause of the "way he handled his wagon" really didnt sit well w/ me. I thought keyser handled his wagon pretty poorly. And his "I think scum pushed tri up to l-1 on purpose" argument seems contrived as well. Plus he was damn defensive when I called him out about it.

1) When did I buddy you?
2) Did the other ones not buddy you? (I'm assuming here, that

they

agreed with

you

and not the other way around)

Why did Keyser handle his wagon poorly?

damn pink shit. hurts my eyes

highlighted 3 stuff, only 2 bullet points - go guess

I get a feeling that right now scum are backing off of pigeon because its a harder wagon now that the slot is actually posting...

you are bad at this game, triv

Because his scum

Trivium is bad at the game because he is scum. <------ You

In the game Mafia, bad play is indicative of scummyness?
or
A player such as Trivium is bad at the game Mafia when playing as a scum?

me or garmr? who's you. irrelevant

'bad play is indicative of scumminess' looks shit.
i townread triv for playing badly

'A player such as Trivium is bad at the game Mafia when playing as a scum?'
second choice looks shit. once again triv ends up being scum

All jokes aside, I'll say stuff that is game pertinent within the hour probably.

Would like to see Aristophanes comment on the Keyser wagon.

Aristo never did

Zukfy, pre-flip assiciatives are rarely a good idea. Just an fyi.

insignificant remark

I'm potting an FoS on Tri, Tool, and Gramr for their interactions around the thread.
Townleans on Lapsa, JarJar, and Performer.

VOTE: Keyser

I'm gonna catch up here tomorrow. I know I've missed questions and stuff, so my apologies.
I have been keeping up though as much as possible, and would like to compliment you on the quickwagon. That was some Grade A stuff!

I'm going to take a much closer look at that when I get a chance, as I'm sure it didn't just happen all by itself with no scum influences.

V/la every weekend, per my sig, but I make every attempt to be around possible.

Can't remember if I've said that already.

And no, not avoiding anything Zulf, just not at the point of answering yet.
Same goes to Keyser, who I will respond to in full once I get a chance.

another qq - gonna do nothing

Town Reads

Keyser Soze - Strong defense when he was being wagoned against. Didn't feel overly self-conscious which is generally a scum-tell. I'm pretty sure Keyser is town.
toolenduso - Good and sensible reasoning, overall I feel that most of his posts are town-motivated. He is one of the most active participants in scumhunting which earns him a townread.

Town Leans

Zulfy - I agree with his logic and thought process. He explains well and is also good with questioning. Overall feels town motivated to me.

Null Reads

Aristophanes - I'm really having difficulty getting any reads on Aristophanes right now. It's getting late, I'll probably do an Aris-focused reread tomorrow and draw conclusions from there but for now I'm listing him as null.
Grayfoxx - Really hasn't posted much. 141 was basically a sheep, and then his last two posts treat Trivium's lynch as a foregone conclusion. Not sure what to make of it.
Lapsa - I like some of his insight on the game but I'm not sure what is going on with his voting. If it's because of my lack of content, I am working on that.
Garmr - Push on Trivium seems town-motivated. Can you pls explain 143? Do you really have no other reads?

Scum Leans

Trivium - I didn't particularly find his push on Keyser too scummy but it was his response that really irked me - he essentially rolled over, just claimed that he was town and resigned to death without giving any substantive defense. @Trivium, I'd like to hear you explain why it would be a mistake for us to lynch you.
JarJarDrinks - I hate 125 and I hate his response to my questioning of it. There's not much else I've found notable from him but overall I want an explanation other than "reread it". PEDIT: he has kinda responded to this already but his response doesn't get at my question - how does the fact that a position is popular somehow not make it bad?
Gimlear - Originally had him listed as null but after reading through ISO again I'm starting to get suspicious. He places an RVS vote, asks Keyser two questions and then disappears. When he gets back in 155 it felt like he was going along with the popular opinion in the town. Since then there hasn't been much of note to me.
Performer - Really not much real content either. I tend to scumread people who jump on popular wagons without really showing much independent though themselves, and Performer has done just this.

Scum Reads

BlueMoonRising - No content. Like seriously. I've been V/LA almost all game and I've still posted more than him. His most recent post felt out of place and reeks of LAMIST. Probable scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BlueMoonRising - see inside of post for details.

Pedit - welp, lots of posts since I started writing this. Gonna do a big EBWOP post incorportating all the recent stuff.

makara`s reads

zulfy town

aristo null. promises to do focused re-read

TODO: check how his read on aristo changes shortly after

scum: confirmed town my town reads

null on grayfoxx and garmr. hmm

I'm back and rereading everyone. Will have updated reads and stuff soon!

I have been reading somewhat and can say that stuff def changed from my last post. I'll try not to make a wall though.
It used to be my style, but I've moved away from it. It was pretty helpful though (if only to myself) so I make no promises that I won't do it again.
If I do, my apologies in advance.

seriously? fucking again?

did the philosopher ever get back to us about his follow-up to my question for his 3 townreads??
i'm not seeing it

Has it been this long without anything resembling a proper contribution from myself? I'm so sorry about that. I have about 8 pages but I'll try to make the summary brief. I'll start taking this game more seriously now I think.

First off, I rescind my scum read on Keyser. I was making things out of nothing I think.
I still don't like your questions because they don't advance the game, are easily manipulated, and are mostly defensive, but I'm just going to assume this is your style.
Most of my other reads at that point were preliminary and will be updated as we go. I'll fill you in on my original thoughts if you like though.

In rereading Keyser's posts since I disappeared (page 5) he actually is far more townleaning than I thought when I originally skimmed the posts. I feel like my whole early game was a lie.

Trivium Wagon breakdown:
Gramr: Alright post. I don't think it'd the greatest case, but being early in both the game and the wagon, that is forgivable.
Keyser: The build up to this is reasonable and the points are okay. I like this vote. Plus, Gramr poured honey all over himself, so...
Lapsa: Should be null, due to lack of explanation and the nakedness of the vote, but Triv was in the scum pile for him and that's his style, so I'm also alright with this vote.
*sigh* This wagon is supposed to be scummy guys. Hoe can I catch scum if you're all null to town!
Grayfoxx shows the will to vote the wagon, but refusal to until a votecount is posted. I do this when the votes are very split up between pages and we are far into a day. This is page 6. To go back and check is easy. This looks like scum hesitation to me. How were you "troubled like this"?? Was the lack of VC troubling? because the wagon is still small at this point and you should have been able to figure this out.
Greyfoxx: Finally votes, thanks to Gramr, and with such a good reason. So good. So Baaaaaaaaaaah! This is very possibly scum.
Zulfy: Quotes me, twice. Points out a discrepancy in my Keyser read (though not really, as it was a progression within the same post, but I digress). Then votes Triv without mentioning him?? Weird. Maybe scum slipping a vote in slyly? I don't think so though. I'm not null on this post, I'm torn on it. No ranking available at this time.
Performer: Asks Triv in the post noted below to explain the buddying read between Tools and Keyser. Then brings him to L-1 in the next post?? I don't like this at all. I think the mention/pic of the honey means that he's blindly sheeping, which doesn't help him any at all.
Toolsend then mentions his townread on Triv and it makes sense. Lapsa's swift unvote supports my strongish townread there.


Performer asks questions with accidental quotes. Damned Q+ button.
Sure, I'll answer. Initial townreads: Lapsa for his usual style, I see nothing damning and thus I likey. JarJar for putting in obvious effort in a town-like manner. Performer for...I don't actually remember. At all. Interesting.

Gimlear's post 155 really seems like a proddodge while trying to look helpful. If they keep this up in my readthrough, definitely a scumlean there.

Ohey, finally a vote-reason from Zulf. It's...meh. Doesn't really make me feel either way on him. I don't like it when I am conflicted for too long and it generally degrades to a null-scum read because town are more pushy and scum more null a lot of the time. I think that's a good spot for Zulf right now in fact. He also then comments on the fact that we can finally put some pressure on somebody, woohoo, but refrains from doing so himself. Yep, that pushes him firmly into a scumlean. cool.

Tools is def a townread. I like this guy.
Gimlear on the other hand, with that push back to L-1 for the reason of "a bad defense" not "good points against him" or "scummy actions" is really bad. You can be in my scumpile too.

I'm only at the top of page 8. Fuck!

This is longer than I wanted it to be. I'll work on a part 2.

Glad I covered the wagon though. This got me some good reads. Now to find out the aftermath of the wagon.

starting with: "Zulfy: Quotes me, twice."

at first - seemed like Aristo is attacking Zulfy

reading more closely - realized that's just re-hashed shit tool already had problems with

ends up that part with null read on zulfy? wtf no rankings available

Ohey, finally a vote-reason from Zulf. It's...meh. Doesn't really make me feel either way on him. I don't like it when I am conflicted for too long and it generally degrades to a null-scum read because town are more pushy and scum more null a lot of the time. I think that's a good spot for Zulf right now in fact. He also then comments on the fact that we can finally put some pressure on somebody, woohoo, but refrains from doing so himself. Yep, that pushes him firmly into a scumlean. cool.

too verbose. exaggerated hesitation to scumlean Zulfy

townreads jjd?
TODO: iirc he had problems with jjd, check the timeline

seems related:

I've been reading these two as town even before the Garm vs Jar discussion .
Ari now that you're here - thoughts on the discussion between them?

Discussion between Gramr and JarJar?
Like, recent discussion?

Like, I've only seriously read up to Pg 8 and it is after that point??

(sorry to disappoint, but I can't comment on what I don't know. To the point I have read, both have been townleaning)

TODO: is this the beginning of grayfoxx wagon?

Perf and Keyser. What do u guys think of Aris recent catchup post? You both didn't seem crazy about him before. Still feeling that way?

I'm still waiting for Part Two before I dig my teeth into it (and revise my read).

FYI: I am not a fan of people who go MiA for 3-5 days come back and post a large wall, go MiA for 3-5 days come back and post a large wall, go MiA for 3-5 days come back and post a large wall, go MiA for 3-5 days come back and post a large wall, go MiA for 3-5 days come back and post a large wall, go MiA for 3-5 days come back and post a large wall...

I prefer in-the-action reactions and responses.

Part 2, coming soon to a thread near you!
(As in, tomorrow. I'm sorry.)

This used to be my usual playstyle and I am honestly a fan of making walls. The stream of thought just works better for me.
But I shall do my best to adapt this back to a more active style such that that game is easier for you to sort.

another qq - gonna do something tomorrow, maybe, who knows

I forgot Makara was a thing in this game...
(I know, I'm o e to talk.)

hmm

I believe the colours show if someone is moving up or down in read strength from the prior count, like and up or down arrow in music charts.

Also, I still need to complete my reread and will tomorrow due to a splitting headache.
I have gotten icky vibes from BlueMoon when skimming the first time, so I will post my

Intent to hammer

but not for a couple of days. I need to make sure this is legit and not a scum driven wagon, and would like for them to say something more topical as I see they have been prodded.

context: bluemoon at l-1

so useful -_-

more empty promises

yet gives suspicion on bluemoon

first thing in my mind - mostly because of jjd's post about activity elsewhere

TODO: check what Aristo thought about bluemoon beforehand

intent to hammer looks shit. as if aristo were able to legitly ensure that wagon ain't driven by scum

I have gotten icky vibes from BlueMoon when skimming the first time, so I will post my

Intent to hammer

but not for a couple of days.

No way should you be posting your intent to hammer - you still need to catch up with the thread and post your re-reads of everyone.

VOTE: Aristophanes

My intent clearly states that it will not occur until after all of that happens. Thanks for trying though.

bluemoon rising is monkey man.

whats the purpose of this post?

I have gotten icky vibes from BlueMoon when skimming the first time, so I will post my

Intent to hammer

but not for a couple of days.

No way should you be posting your intent to hammer - you still need to catch up with the thread and post your re-reads of everyone.

VOTE: Aristophanes

My intent clearly states that it will not occur until after all of that happens. Thanks for trying though.

i had the same conclusion with Keys that its bullshit that you claim intent to hammer, when you didnt put forth your part 2
Ari, where in your 409 did you say you'd post a follow-up? For all we know, you could've hammered today or tomorrow, without your follow-up.

Another question - you stated you like Lap...because you played only 1 game with him in Sweet Dreams?
You don't find anything disturbing at all, about his numerous bare posts?

I believe the colours show if someone is moving up or down in read strength from the prior count, like and up or down arrow in music charts.

Also, I still need to complete my reread and will tomorrow due to a splitting headache.

I have gotten icky vibes from BlueMoon when skimming the first time, so I will post my

Intent to hammer

but not for a couple of days. I need to make sure this is legit and not a scum driven wagon, and would like for them to say something more topical as I see they have been prodded.

The italicized parts are where I stated I would read up and respond prior to hammering.

As for Lapsa, I am basing this off of my one game with them, as well as meta from people both in that game and this one which stated that this was highly regular.
The posts, as I said, have not been without reason. It's just a matter of learning to read his intentions.

beating dead horse. even tool had stopped defending my meta at this point

[Lapsa]

What is TODO tho?

look at my incredibly scummy tactics

[Lapsa]

what do you mean by this

finding scum ofc

[Lapsa]

As is, you've kind of discarded something that you claim could have helped you catch scum.

tool sees perf going down too quickly

I do expect to see some follow up conclusion, but I dunno.

All jokes aside, I'll say stuff that is game pertinent within the hour probably.

I'm gonna catch up here tomorrow. I know I've missed questions and stuff, so my apologies.
I have been keeping up though as much as possible.

I'm going to take a much closer look at that when I get a chance, as I'm sure it didn't just happen all by itself with no scum influences.

V/la every weekend, per my sig, but I make every attempt to be around possible.

I will respond to in full once I get a chance.

Will have updated reads and stuff soon!

I'll try not to make a wall though.

coming soon to a thread near you!

...

...

...

...

...

playing fallout and feeling too lazy for mafia

[Lapsa]

jjd, pull your shit together. your reasoning sucks

how da fuck my dislike of makara`s lynch (mind you, it was worded precisely - because of pidgeon's vote) has anything to do with my reads on triv?

cause Triv linked that game well before Lapsa moved triv to null

as if that means i had automatically read it

[Lapsa]

I think I mixed some stuff up there thinking that Lapsa was referring to makara and not triv in those posts (he was actually talking TO makara about triv).

you are mixing a lot of stuff. can't remember ever talking to makara

Gonna dig more tomorrow cause I coulda sworn Lapsa implied he was townreading mak before making that post.

before which post?

did townread makara. underestimated that fella and was busy elsewhere

null read him during day2 because of his abscence and had scumlean after Skybird's shitty entrance

[Lapsa]

cause I coulda sworn Lapsa implied he was townreading mak

wouldn't call that wishy washy implying:

town
...

makara

[Lapsa]

Overall I don't really get the Zulf/Aris pairing but it looks like you have more work to do anyway.

got to start somewhere. coming in day3 - they were my top scumreads

so it makes sense rereading while looking through this particular bit forced perspective

[Lapsa]

you are empty-handed

[Lapsa]

i'm laughing

[Lapsa]

In the meantime, Ari is still looking the same to me.

it took me some effort but i could read Ari's post as town

You said it' unlikely that I'm scum and then you said there's scum between 2 others and I.

"perf read" changed from obv town to extremely likely scum and everything in between

only that's not supposed to be Ari's read - those were assumptions on how one could interpret mak/sky posts

but yeah - that analysis is fairly confusing and dense

e.g. my eyes lagged on that "can be hidden in post formatting" argument yet upon rereading Sky post i tend to agree

[Lapsa]

VOTE: JarJar

did land a helping hand on understanding me

you admitted your stupidity yet didn't fix your crap and still pushing lynch on me

[Lapsa]

Because I was wrong about 1 thing, that negates my whole case against you?

how should i know? i don't get your case

from my pov you just push some irrelevant bullshit on me about super early read change on triv

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

it doesn't matter if we lynch Constantine or Constantine today. Constantine will flip scum twice.

[Lapsa]

the time has come



i claim

town neighborizer

on N1 i recruited performer
wanted to get a better read on him and found it ironic because Garmr posts of our hidden connection

on N2 i recruited toolenduso
recruited obvtown to amass hood townies

no crumbs

[Lapsa]

correct

but i do townread both of them

[Lapsa]

i saw you voted Jar, then you unvoted. Lapsa, who's your new scumread and how come?

i'm not scumreading Jar. i disliked his push on me.
didn't make sense to me.
although i didn't try hard to understand because i'm townreading him

atm i dislike Const

mostly because his scumreads are way off from mine.
replaced into slot under heavy pressure - didn't bother giving much thoughts about gamestate.
has been day around - still lacking content.
riding lynchbait train too cheeky

strange pool:
aristo, zulfy, pidgeon

was ready to lynch aristo but i kind a liked our interaction as explained on #1358

i'm torn on Zulfikar

liked pidgeon replies at the end of day2 but he's fairly inactive on day3

town:
tool, perf, gimlear, jarjar

[Lapsa]

riding lynchbait train too cheeky

Only three people are voting Gimlear and I was the first. What can you expect tho from obv-scum?

what are you trying to ask me here?

[Lapsa]

How can you seriously claim I am bandwagoning when I was the one who started the wagon?

i don't

riding lynchbait train too cheeky

you assumed it's gimwagon. i meant your playstyle - pushing anyone who moves with stupid oneliners

i meant that you don't really do much, just lynchbaiting around and pushing anyone who moves

If you recruited performer on night one, why is he just discovering now that you are a neighborizer?

is he?

You do understand that if you are a neighborizer, these peope would be in a neighborhood with you, right?

yes

You do also understand that putting "town" in front of "neighborizer does not make you a town neighborizer?

very useful

[Lapsa]

brain fart. wrote same thing twice ^_^

[Lapsa]

VOTE: St Constantine the Hermit

[Lapsa]

Read the bold

meant exactly that:

you assumed it's gimwagon. i meant your playstyle - pushing anyone who moves with stupid oneliners

check your iso - it's empty

and i'm not the only one to see it that way

I like Gimlear's point about Constant looking like disinterested scum.

[Lapsa]

you assumed it's gimwagon. i meant your playstyle - pushing anyone who moves with stupid oneliners

i meant that you don't really do much, just lynchbaiting around and pushing anyone who moves

Now THIS is interesting. One of the justifications for voting me was that my scumreads were different than yours. Okay, then why not vote one of you scumreads? Why are all your reasons for voting me concentrated on policy, when you CLAIM to have actual scumreads?

i am. you are my scumread

atm i dislike Const

mostly because his scumreads are way off from mine.
replaced into slot under heavy pressure - didn't bother giving much thoughts about gamestate.
has been day around - still lacking content.
riding lynchbait train too cheeky

strange pool:
aristo, zulfy, pidgeon

was ready to lynch aristo but i kind a liked our interaction as explained on #1358

i'm torn on Zulfikar

liked pidgeon replies at the end of day2 but he's fairly inactive on day3

town:
tool, perf, gimlear, jarjar

[Lapsa]

@Constantine why do you think that Gim is acting like a lynchbait?

i find that to be quite contrary #1376, #1378

[Lapsa]

Everything Lapsa says is contradictory to herself or the realitiy of what has happened in the game. I am too lazy to keep finding the 200 or so examples already in circulation.

replaced into slot under heavy pressure - didn't bother giving much thoughts about gamestate.
has been day around - still lacking content.
riding lynchbait train too cheeky

find one

[Lapsa]

Also, tool, if you have information for us that could help us determine Performer's loyalty, please share. It seems you're being very coy about something, and now is not the time to hide important information.

Spoiler:

And seriously, please share what information you have on Performer.

I don't have like an investigation result on him if that's what you're thinking.

You're acting like you know something or at least figured out something. Something that makes you trust him more than you did yesterday. Don't make this a game of 20 questions.

So let me get this right. Tool was townreading me on d2, was townreading me on d3, then you inquire why he is, he says he can't say, and you continue to inquire him with "trust him more than you did yesterday." I thought he's townreading me the same? How is he trusting me more than he did yesterday?...

Here is the last read I can find from tool regarding performer in day 2:

Perf probtown but have hesitations

Granted, this isn't a scumread, but his read got a lot more confident all of a sudden in day 3 (and even implied something happened during the night to cause this), and he's refusing to explain why. That's why I'm pushing on this.

I just don't understand why you would try to hide pertinent information if you're town.

By the end of the game you will understand.

[Lapsa]

and f* you Zulfy for stealing my post

[Lapsa]

Now who we gonna lynch?

VOTE: Constantine

[Lapsa]

Zulfy, have you changed your read on Constantine?

[Lapsa]

Currently leaning on Perf, Constant, and Zulfy.

could you vote Constantine?

[Lapsa]

i'm ok with that

[Lapsa]

hold on a second, perf

i didn't specifically ask you to recruit Pidgeon.
i gave you recommendations. about all my +- townreads

that tool is a bad pick because i thought he would be NK

that i don't find much gain recruiting keyser and jjd

that gimlear is shady to others

that zulfy would be good for similar reasons as pidgeon (borderline scummy and could be detrimental to unite town) only that i trusted pidgeon slightly more atm

i saw thread during N1 despite being unable to post hence i knew if there were a recruit he would be able to read it too (unless Mario fucks it up big time).
longshot on tool as your pick seemed like a good idea hence you had a townread on him and he was rolefishing during early day,
implying what from my pov seemed like he's recruited

i wrote you in details about idea of fakeclaiming town neighborizer in order to protect you.
you said that you were against it. during night i did promise to avoid doing so.
yet decided it's a perfect fit given circumstances, knew you and tool would be informed so i just ran with it.
even if it wasn't tool - someone would definitely figure it out and step up (and for a moment i thought Zulfy did)

i have completed 2 consecutive games with scum neighborizer, i don't take your alignment for granted

i would have expected town performer to just keep mystery alive and avoid outing today

fact that you were recruiting me because you were townreading me, wrote that you will "take my suggestions into consideration",
listened to my idea of fakeclaiming yet didn't reveal crucial fact that you are 1-hit neighborizer (wtf is that role? never seen it before. is it even considered to be normal?)
and coming out now makes me scumlean you. too convenient

[Lapsa]

Lapsa can you provide some kind of explanation for lying? I can't see any town motivation for it.

basic fork:

either i'm helping town performer
or
i'm helping to reveal scum performer

no matter what: we end up generating tons of content

[Lapsa]

Lapsa can you provide some kind of explanation for lying? I can't see any town motivation for it.

seriously - who da fuck would spend 1hit neighborizer action on Lapsa just because of his interactions with Garm on night 1?
i would definitely try getting closer to LyLo

could understand that this is how you want to stay undercover - lying that you are 1hit.
well... ok... fine... despite that coming out now is stupid... could still townread...

but then again - what's up with tying me up with pidgeon and voting me?

[Lapsa]

I guess. If you're town, I think that's a terrible play. Trying to figure out if it's a worse play as scum though. I kinda think it is.

fence sitting

[Lapsa]

Dude Lapsa...
when on earth does person A want to fake claim a PR's claim
when the actual PR explicitly stated it's not a good idea
and then person A said he'll STILL do it
and here we are, you did exactly that, you fake claimed my claim. I'm the real 1-shot Town Neighborizer. You asked me to recruit an extra person (suggested, recommended...semantics), and I didn't answer you directly. Because I knew I could further discern your alignment later on if you slipped , which you did. You claimed to have recruited me (outright lie) AND a second recruit into the neighborhood (toolenduso, which was also an outright lie).

2 investigative roles are dead. without chaos and material this game is doomed to stagnate

already said that i didn't took your alignment for granted. this is the way to quite surely find out.
and it's not just about you - ripple effect has been marvelous

glad you dropped pidgeon bullshit

all is not that bad - if you are 1-shot, we don't really lose anything since action's already used.
if you are scum - i have neutralized scum hood

[Lapsa]

You're not really answering my question. Just stating a bunch of facts. WHY would he lie, knowing that you and tool would call him out?

I think he's trying to stir up chaos with this and get ME or someone else lynched.
It's interesting that he pulled this after I voted Aris, then Gim today.

i've been fairly open that i want to see Constantine lynched

i'm against Gim lynch. on lesser degree - i'm against Ari lynch too

your townread on Constantine and Zulfs scumread on tool are part of the reason why i fakeclaimed - town is too stretched apart

[Lapsa]

HOW??? - This is the more important question. How in the world could he have expected this to work? If he just lied about you, that's one thing.
But he included Tool, which means the lie was destined to fail from the getgo.

untrue. there definitely was a chance for fakeclaim to go through

listened to my idea of fakeclaiming yet didn't reveal crucial fact that you are 1-hit neighborizer (wtf is that role? never seen it before. is it even considered to be normal?)
and coming out now makes me scumlean you. too convenient
even if it wasn't tool - someone would definitely figure it out and step up (and for a moment i thought Zulfy did)

[Lapsa]

So, how is Tool involved? Something happened with him and Performer last night, and if it was being neighborized, then what?

i would have expected towntool and townperformer to just follow fakeclaim

that does empower Lapsa as harder to lynch but not to irreversible degree.
even if i did become a problem - there would still be at least 2 more ppl in hood besides me

[Lapsa]

Am I missing something?

tool's secret knowledge regarding Performer

Zulfy and Gim were most vocal on this topic

#1429
#1430

[Lapsa]

Also, lapsa, X-shot is considered a Normal modifier on any role.

already checked that

[Lapsa]

i remember bodyguard thing. didn't connect it together though

haven't checked exact timeline but it does make sense

[Lapsa]

@Gim .....

NEITHER of us were neighborized by Lapsa

->I<- did the neighborizing

perf, you are off here.
pay closer attention to our discussion with Gim

i believe he was asking about my thought process as how i planned it to unfold in case tool actually were neighborized by you

[Lapsa]

What did you expect to gain from the fake claim then? You said that you wanted chaos and you got chaos, but that is because Performer has counterclaimed you, not because he went along with it. Also, I think you are (and hindsight is 20/20?) mistaken in thinking that they would just go along with it as town. I guess they could both be scum here but I would bet my bank account info that that is not the case here.

why wouldn't they go along?

[Lapsa]

and he knew I was town

hey, be gentle! that's a misrepresentation. townreading != knowing

if i were scum - would just kill you when timing's appropriate

since i'm town - i'm trying to get a read on you with weapons available

[Lapsa]

And what is the motivation for him to lie about his role AND not use it in the even that he is a full scum neighborizer?

valid point

but yeah - possibility i did consider

[Lapsa]

I am Vanilla

Popcorn Lapsa even though he's already kind of claimed vanilla in the neighborhood apparently.

vanilla here

Const, your turn

[Lapsa]

Popcorn Lapsa even though he's already kind of claimed vanilla in the neighborhood apparently.

where exactly that has been mentioned on game thread?

[Lapsa]

Iirc Constant stated he was VT in d2?

true

[Lapsa]

you're making the most ambiguous posts...

thank you

[Lapsa]

Answer: Did scum neighborizer not occur to you?

And about my case being weak, that's for the others. I'm fully convinced by it, but am cognizant that I'd have a hard time convincing everyone else.

i'm not convinced and i'm kind a close to this. could you try me?

[Lapsa]

-He claimed VT. I'm sure that's a fake claim too

nvm pidgeon

[Lapsa]

so deep

[Lapsa]

how is it making sense?

[Lapsa]

off you go then and thanks for a compliment

but i must say that you already ain't getting facts straight:

Lapsa insists he's going to do it anyway

[Lapsa]

yet that's not what happened

during night i did promise to avoid doing so.

wrote in hood that i won't do it unless perf explicitly states it's ok with him (which he did not).
that's the last thing in hood on this topic

[Lapsa]

...so why the hell did you agree not to do it, then do it anyway? What changed between your promise not to do it and #1388?

2 investigative roles are dead. without chaos and material this game is doomed to stagnate

already said that i didn't took your alignment for granted. this is the way to quite surely find out.
and it's not just about you - ripple effect has been marvelous

yet decided it's a perfect fit given circumstances, knew you and tool would be informed so i just ran with it.
even if it wasn't tool - someone would definitely figure it out and step up (and for a moment i thought Zulfy did)

i have completed 2 consecutive games with scum neighborizer, i don't take your alignment for granted

your townread on Constantine and Zulfs scumread on tool are part of the reason why i fakeclaimed - town is too stretched apart

And you thought fakeclaiming would help???

yes

[Lapsa]

first one's just a part of it

i would say this one's most important and what triggered whole thing:

your townread on Constantine and Zulfs scumread on tool are part of the reason why i fakeclaimed - town is too stretched apart

because i did townread you and scumread const

and i still do scumread Const

he ain't reading shit (completely ignored mass claiming) and/or lynchbaiting to extreme which i find unacceptable

i did confront him yet i never felt as if he's trying to actually talk with me - just pulling random scumtells on just about anyone out of his ass

btw, did you notice you ain't first to mention this bussing theory?

WHY??? - wasn't const on the verge of getting lynched when lapsa made his Gambit? The only motivation I can see for the Lapsa lie is a Const/Lapsa scumteam. Nothing else really makes sense for a motive.

you should coop with jjd

[Lapsa]

*Sigh*

You guys are hopeless, with your insane theories. Do some people actually play like that? Everytime I play with a town keen on creating whacky theories, which seems to be all of you at this point, we end up losing.

Oh, was she already lynched? You guys are dumb then.

[Lapsa]

and fact that i didn't admit fakeclaiming until perf outed even after your claim being hoodless might play important role in your theory

[Lapsa]

because for some reason town decided to make insane theories of why you are

not

scum, instead of doing what they are supposed to be doing

at least until the people I am playing with understand my meta.

i don't buy it, sorry

[Lapsa]

Zulfy, how about another round of applause?

[Lapsa]

and fact that i didn't admit fakeclaiming until perf outed even after your claim being hoodless might play important role in your theory

Why?

maybe not.
just thought for a moment that might rule out Lapsa/Const team.
but fakeclaiming going through seems not to be a necessity

[Lapsa]

I don't understand what Lapsa has been trying to say in 90% of her posts, that last one included

and that's the thing.
mixing up my gender intentionally shouldn't give you free pass to lynchbait all game along

problem is that there's just too much information going on:
you are unable to parse it AND make your stance believable AND are under pressure - so distancing won't do either

[Lapsa]

Okay, so here is the problem, and I created a discussion thread about this too.

We have two arguments...

- I was able to know Lapsa was lying, because *shocker*, I might actually be good at calling out obvious BS and being confident enough about my accusation to stick by it until the truth reveals itself

and that has been my problem with you all awhile - you ain't showing your "goodness".
you appareantly fail to even read the game

or...

- On N2, me and lapsa created a comphrehensive plot in the scum PT to fool the entire town, by perpetuating a fake claim that we had full knowledge would be cc'd, and subsequently bussing each other to confuse and disorient town. Because for some reason, this elaborate plot was going to work in our favor...

One of these theories brings up more questions than it answers. My argument resides on

ONE

total assumption, whereas the second theory has to have at least twenty assumptions all together. You guys are overthinking this considerably.

so does mine - that we ain't team and you are scum

I don't understand what Lapsa has been trying to say in 90% of her posts, that last one included

mixing up my gender intentionally shouldn't give you free pass to lynchbait all game along

Okay, so

1. This is the internet. No one gives a fuck about your gender. Call me a she if you like.

that's why i assume you are doing it intentionally to shrug off any discussion.
there's huge discrepancy with your "goodness" and inability to spot such basic stuff

2. I have never lynchbaited. I STARTED the gimlear wagon, and I not only STARTED your wagon, but besides performer, I have been the only one pushing it too.

#1413

[Lapsa]

Seriously replacing out if Lapsa is not off'd today.

"goodness"

[Lapsa]

perf, are you townreading Constantine?

[Lapsa]

Yes.

The fake claim you did at that level of deceit, after what we discussed in my PT, was a scum claim that can't be ignored.

you've been scumreading him whole game

[Lapsa]

Aristophane, pick a side

[Lapsa]

in first post he sarcastically thanked me about voting Const who was so town

said "gg town" and that he's likely to die

i replied that i didn't find Const town at all and that i (mistakenly i guess) don't think either of us gonna die.
and that i'm glad nobody has been neighborized

followed by 3 posts of mine - basically bitching that perf is silent

then i gave my reads list

to which perf replied that he's sorry because of being busy.
showed disbelief that i'm vt after "fiasco i pulled yesterday"

some more whining on how bad fakeclaim thing went in next post

in last post he wrote his scumreads:
ari, gim, zulfy (in that order)

[Lapsa]

Alive (boo Mario):

tool
zulfy
pidgeon
ari
gim
lapsa
jjd

4 to lynch. 7-2=5, not in a mylo yet (assuming 3scum)

[Lapsa]

VOTE: toolenduso

[Lapsa]

I'm about 7 pages back and will catch up tomorrow after work. I'm really, really sorry I disappeared.

no, you are not sorry

All jokes aside, I'll say stuff that is game pertinent within the hour probably.

I'm gonna catch up here tomorrow. I know I've missed questions and stuff, so my apologies.
I have been keeping up though as much as possible.

I'm going to take a much closer look at that when I get a chance, as I'm sure it didn't just happen all by itself with no scum influences.

V/la every weekend, per my sig, but I make every attempt to be around possible.

I will respond to in full once I get a chance.

Will have updated reads and stuff soon!

I'll try not to make a wall though.

coming soon to a thread near you!

[Lapsa]

Why?

to help you

[Lapsa]

should be somewhere around "after work"

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

Obviously Zulfy isn't gonna lie here.

i've seen this ^_^

[Lapsa]

i like turtles

[Lapsa]

What happened w/ Keysor?

keysor killed triv

[Lapsa]

tomorrow, after work

[Lapsa]

How did you know??

know what?

[Lapsa]

what was coincidental? what are you talking about?

[Lapsa]

[Lapsa]

after work

[Lapsa]

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[Lapsa]

Welp.

scared?

[Lapsa]

makara

(3)- JarJarDrinks,

AngryPidgeon

,

Keyser Soze

i doubt double bussing in this one would make any sense

[Lapsa]

Spoiler: gim dive

myself being a complete newbie just a few games ago

somehow missed this part. helpful

VOTE: Blue Moon

@makara: Where's that big EBWOP that you promised?

these posts seems interesting.
gim distancing from both buddies at once would seem really unnecessary

@Keyser: Can you explain why you find Ari's post to be "a reachy pile of s***"?

this one would make sense in ari/gim scenario. i doubt there's 4

Makara not knowing where his vote is honestly reads as town for me. If they were scum I'd assume them to be much more aware of a detail like this.

First, Makara was voting BMR before that post. Mario just edited the post to include the vote.

Second, even if he did, how is this a town thing? It doesn't seem at all alignment indicative.

peculiar

#766 looks town

followed up by reads on #767.
could argue about count of nulls yet nothing too suspicious

Ok, I understand your first answer. But what changed that you didn't want to keep voting Garmr at the beginning of day 2? Please explain your thought process.

well... garmr didn't go overboard with pressuring me. i could read that as town

either way - saw no real gain for trying to push immediately.
expected that discussion to be similarly fruitless as on day1.
thought it would be better just observing him

VOTE: Lapsa

What? Are you saying it's weird when players vote you without explaining their votes?

i remember this one

mocking my behavior so err....
found that to be extremely naive attempt at scumhunting.
and hard to fake as a scum.
goes well together with his confession of being newbish

I'm not going to actually hammer until we've had a chance to discuss. I just want to go ahead and get a claim so we can react accordingly. I just don't want another rushed alternate wagon like on day 1.

this one's interesting. can't see scum motivation for it.
even in case of bussing, would expect somehow trying to dissipate wagon on Skybird

Also, Lapsa, your sig doesn't say that you're V/LA every weekend.

lol

Well they almost make it too easy. I had fingered a possible scum association between Gimlear and Lapsa yesterday. I am almost never wrong when you have those lame openly admitted to be poor justifications for a vote, like @toolendduso pointed out.

Wow, overreaction much. All I was doing was stimulating conversation, but your responses sound like squirmy scum.

To be clear, I am ok with lynching Aris, but I don't want to put him at L-1 yet since we have time for discussion. I don't know what to make of the Zulfy sheep, but for now that doesn't change my read of him.

@tool: I was saying the progression of his posts looks scummy because he immediately busses makara (who we know now is scum) without justification. He then shows that he hasn't read the thread at all, meaning any arguments of scum not needing to bus on day 2 are moot when talking about Constantine.

i'm bit disconnected on that discussion with tool. might seem scummy as going for Const mislynch

yet i do remember thinking same about Const of being squirmy scum

nope... still can't scumread gimlear

[Lapsa]

I think Aris still makes a good lynch (especially looking at the VCA), but I would to hear everyone else's thoughts as well.

same here. my vote goes to Ari today

in superbly unlikely scenario of Ari townflip - next one would be jjd.
hence next one will be jjd iso dive when i get in a mood

[Lapsa]

Before you iso dive, why JJD for tomorrow?

and why not?

I wasn't on BMR, so that was 100% a double bus.

great argument

[Lapsa]

anyway - here it goes.
jjd can't really compete with that guy

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Lapsa]

because I had a big hand in that lynch

was that so? more like gim, zulfy and lapsa

anyway - i don't feel ashamed about that one

[Lapsa]

As I already said, Aris's vote on AP looked like bussing, and I was suspicious of him because he seemed to give me a free pass for much of the game as people began townreading me.

btw, Aris blabbered "oh that's just Lapsa's playstyle" longer than you

stupid and unnecessary stuff like this one:

AP, I can do a translation of Lapsa at some point if you like, but it won't be before the day's end.

i dare to say that they did plan to abuse it from very beginning

[Lapsa]

So he changed his mind on you by the end of the night phase?

no, he did not. that guy couldn't get past the fact i was lying.
i do think that taking perf out was a crucial mistake

lucky hit on zulfy would mean fairly close game

even NK on tool would be much more beneficial

and it was fairly obvious he ain't lying about modifier

as i wrote to perf during night - i wanted to townread pidgeon yet couldn't shake off paranoia.
already mentioned long ago - guy's skilled

(also - that gim gets demoted to null and zulfy down to scum. townreads unchanged)

The worst thing I can see about Lapsa here is
In post 1465, Lapsa wrote:
yet didn't reveal crucial fact that you are 1-hit neighborizer (wtf is that role? never seen it before. is it even considered to be normal?)
and coming out now makes me scumlean you. too convenient

Lapsa doubtcasting your claim even though he has proof that you are telling the truth about being a neighborizer. @Lapsa: You think Performer could be a regular scum neighborizer but is lying about how many times he can use it? We saw Trivium flip 2-SHOT cop in this very game, so I don't see why it would be a strtch for you to believe that Performer could only use the role once.

And what is the motivation for him to lie about his role AND not use it in the even that he is a full scum neighborizer?

this quote is an interesting one. to which i hastily replied with:

And what is the motivation for him to lie about his role AND not use it in the even that he is a full scum neighborizer?

valid point

but yeah - possibility i did consider

pidgeon states that worst thing about me is doubtcasting perf's modifier (simultaneously fishing it)

there's some bullshit noise about triv having a modifier that pretty much proves nothing

bolded part i found most interesting since that's supposed to be reason why this doubtcasting is supposed to be worst.
thought about that question for quite awhile

as i wrote to perf during night - problem with that bolded part is that pidgeon omitted possibility perf being 1-hit scum neighborizer.
he definitely should have thought about it since he was able to think that far (wouldn't ask such a question about lack of scum motivation).
so it seemed that had been done on purpose

well okay - could be scumhunting and whatnot...

then again - he placed vote on me because of this bogus reasoning after explicitly saying that that's the worst.
iirc no-lynch was nowhere near

for me - that was completely enough to believe zulfy

No. Just that JJD said he wanted to give people a chance to talk.

i did check it before voting.
pidgeon himself had 3 days to make a decent reply which he failed to do.
apart from what does seem like a bus on pidgeon, Aris said pretty much nothing and kept fence sitting (i've been nagging him about his lack of content all game)

Spoiler: aris

Gotcha.
Will finish my reread (not that I've gotten much out of the last few pages)
But I like this.

VOTE: AP

Like, I've read 59-63 and this is what I've got. Everything is just bickering.

AP, in 1489, during your catchup, you say there is no way Lapsa is fakeclaiming. Why not?
We have proof this is not the case, and that it was a lie. So what is your opinion on the slot now?
Also, why the call for a massclaim? It seems premature, and having few, if any, town PRs left, is likely to make all the rest huge targets.

Aristophane, pick a side

I'd have voted you, for the record, had I been around.

I'm a VT. I want to hear what AP has to say before I weigh in on this and I think everybody else should do the same so we aren't guiding AP's answer.

Sorry, I saw massclaim had started, I assumed it was finished yesterday.

Did AP claim? I seem to recall them doing so, will check.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

Obviously Zulfy isn't gonna lie here.

Obviously Zulfy isn't gonna lie here.

i've seen this ^_^

Did we really learn nothing from the last day phase, JarJarDrinks?

As motion detector I can detect the motions from a player or from somebody who targets that player.

tomorrow, after work

How did you know??

That's why Keyser's results came out positive the first night.

I'm definitely confused then. What happened w/ Keysor?

He already stated this, and it makes sense, but I'll let him answer because it's a dick move to answer someone else's questions.

Also, if I get the time, I'll compile a claims list.

How did you know??

know what?

know that I meant after work tomorrow for compiling a claims list. Or was that coincidental?

Neverending. It was an offhand comment that has no real bearing on the game.

Shameless proddoge as I will be back tomorrow.

AP's post wasn't very convincing though.

^ i think pidgeon was supposed to be "teh shiny townie" and find this to be fairly funny role reversal

didn't think there's anything else of value somebody could add and didn't want risking for pidgeon wagon to dissolve

[Lapsa]

(also - that gim gets demoted to null and zulfy down to scum. townreads unchanged)

well - rest townreads i mean (jjd, tool, perf)

gim down since i lacked scumread - wasn't completely sure about zulfy being scum and tried real hard to townread pidgeon

[Lapsa]

feel free to ask me anything (except for you, Aris)

might even try reconstructing thought process on why exactly i changed my read on triv or whatever that issue was jjd had

[Lapsa]

[Lapsa]

they were

[Lapsa]

vote me, Aristophanes

[Lapsa]

still fence sitting. pathetic

[Lapsa]

it's not that hard

VOTE: Lapsa

[Lapsa]

vote me, Aristophanes

[Lapsa]

such a great opportunity, Aris

whoever goes after me would look seriously suspicious

and even if i end up town - you wouldn't face me in LyLo

that's a win/win

[Lapsa]

do it

[Lapsa]

JarJar, if you end up in LyLo - please, vote Aristophanes instead of Gimlear. thank you