Mini 1728: Circus Mafia (Game Over)

[Aristophanes]

First off, this was pretty much exactly how TownLapsa played in D1 of Sweet Dreams. There's actually a lot more to their posts if you take a step back and analyse. Sometimes a really big step back, but still.

bump

You feeling ok brother?
Your failure to post anything coherent, strangely gives me weak town-feels.
Play us another song.

VOTE: Aristophanes

Of all the votes against me, this one hurts the most.
What gives Lapsa?

Ser Aristophanes, your composure at L-3 intrigues me.

Coherence was there, just not fully revealed yet. You'll get used to it.

As for my response to the votes, it's page 2, RVS, and I was in no danger of being lynched. Why should I have been worried about it?

I like JarJar's point in 42 about Keyser trying to appear town with that question.
Keyser's response in 43 is bad and tries to discredit JarJar rather than converse as to why he got scumvibes off it. Plus, it takes the quote out of context. It looks scummy because he read it as posturing a town mentality, not because it is blatantly scummy. That I don't like.
Also, why the need to signal everyone that RVS has ended?
We can figure that out, we're not imbeciles. That part of the post also reads as "look at me, I got us out of RVS! I'm so town!"

Tool supporting that this is Lapsa's style is null.
And his point about outing scum roles is looking at it from a mod-perspective, not a player one, before anyone chastizes him for it.

Oh my god, can you ask any more leading questions, Keyser!?
Like, really. None of the things you've asked are in any way helpful and they are all open to whatever answer you want to be right, no matter what is answered by the one answering.
Also, him not being able to figure out Lapsa's quote from the wiki reads as disingenuous. That was not a hard one to figure out, even had you, like myself, had not read the wiki.

Keyser is on my watch list for that oddness with the question on mafia daychat.

I was going to berate you for taking so long to deduce this, but it appears this is your first post. You get a pass.
Also, he's clearly FoS-ing you, Keyser. Stop playing dumb and trying to discredit all who give you a sideways glance.

Zukfy, pre-flip assiciatives are rarely a good idea. Just an fyi.

I'm just going to leave this here.

Also this.

So what?
He said he asks every game, and that's fine. I believed him.
His reaction to people's reactions to it is what I don't like right now.
Why did you go out of your way to find these, Tool?

VOTE: Aristophanes

VOTE: Keyser

you must mean the two times he has changed his vote without giving a single word describing why. Yeah, that looks just a bit scummy to me. Just a bit.

Why do you think he's jumping from one wagon to another?

Why don't you ask a direct question of the player doing it rather than asking one person's motivations from another?
This, plus your theory/leading-questions are all busywork and aren't really contributing anything.

I'm potting an FoS on Tri, Tool, and Gramr for their interactions around the thread.
Townleans on Lapsa, JarJar, and Performer.

VOTE: Keyser

[Trivium]

Thank you for your rather different view, Arist.

[Aristophanes]

Thank you for your rather different view, Arist.

My pleasure!

Would you like to have a conversation about the differing views or merely comment from a distance?

[Aristophanes]

(Unless that is sarcasm, in which case, let me know because I am usually better at picking it up...)

[toolenduso]

I'm just going to leave this here.

Also this.

So what?
He said he asks every game, and that's fine. I believed him.
His reaction to people's reactions to it is what I don't like right now.

Not really seein' it. Looks more to me like an attempt to get out of RVS/get early info in the game. People went after him for it and he defended himself. Perhaps made some logical missteps along the way, but town does that plenty.

What I was watching for was the way that people responded to the easy bait.

Why did you go out of your way to find these, Tool?

People were scumreading him for it, and it was an easy thing to fact check.

[toolenduso]

Keyser's response in 43 is bad and tries to discredit JarJar rather than converse as to why he got scumvibes off it.

Which part did you take as him trying to discredit JarJar?

[Keyser Söze]

TO: Ser Aristophanes
SUBJECT: Disappointing catch-up post
DATE: 14/10/2015

Your scum-read accusation - my reply

"Keyser trying to appear town with that question" - NO. I was trying to find out useful information. Why twist my motivation to fit your miss-rep of me?

"Keyser's response in 43 is bad and tries to discredit JarJar" - NO. I'm trying to reason with him. Choosing to post a question publicly is not scum-indicative. I am waiting to see if JarJarDrinks agrees with Trivium's reason/vote in Post 78.

"It looks scummy because he read it as posturing a town mentality" - NO. I wrote it from a town perspective/mentality because I am town.

"why the need to signal everyone that RVS has ended?" - Free will. Free speech. Why can't I signal that we are out of RVS? Why does this make me scum?

"Oh my god, can you ask any more leading questions, Keyser!?" It should be obvious that me asking that question was not exclusively scum-motivated. Those questions strengthen my point.

"him not being able to figure out Lapsa's quote from the wiki reads as disingenuous." How can you say that I am being "disingenuous"? Miss-rep. Why does this make me scum.

"Stop playing dumb" - NO. I am not playing dumb.

"discredit all who give you a sideways glance" - "discredit" or disagree? Do you think that is scum-indicative? Calling out the weak reasons to scum-read someone?

"His reaction to people's reactions to it is what I don't like right now" - I do not understand the overreaction that the question has caused. I find it comical and quite frankly pathetic. What makes my reaction scum-indicative?

"your theory/leading-questions are all busywork and aren't really contributing anything" - that is your opinion. I have many reads from my interactions.



I will be interested to hear your responses. If you still stand firm that all those points make me scum, then I will bookmark your reply in my sig

I hope you explain your "Townleans on Lapsa, JarJar, and Performer" when you're next online too.

[Trivium]

Alrighty then. Hey tooleanduso, why don't you explain your buddying with Keyser? I mean, if either of you turn up being scum, we already know who the partner was. Well, maybe not. Would scum make it that easy? Still, your focus on protecting Keyser is pretty obvous. Why don't you help scumhunt?

[Trivium]

Thank you for your rather different view, Arist.

My pleasure!

Would you like to have a conversation about the differing views or merely comment from a distance?

Not sarcasm.
So thats alright and all, and I agree with the part where you said tool was going out of his way for the roof, but that doesn't stop it from being proof. At this point I think the evidence points to Keyser being town, and I'm glad there are other opinions. I'm still going to say I myself am currently looking for a game Keyser may have asked about mafia daytalk while he was scum.

[Zulfy]

@JarJarDrinks - I asked you these questions because you have short-sightedly concluded that I would

only have scum-motivation to ask

that simple game set-up related question. There is no evaluation which I hoped for/expected. You earn a scum point for that reaction.

"short-sightedly concluded" is a strange way to describe something that you're handing out scum points for.

Just to confirm, do you therefore support Trivium's reasoning:

You didn't give a response to his point. If he is being foolish by suspecting that you're scum because of the daychat question,

why then would you say that he has earned scum points?

Also, I might be wrong here, but I think that the fact that you've asked that in all your town games means little, since you've only ever played as town on this forum.

[Trivium]

@JarJarDrinks - I asked you these questions because you have short-sightedly concluded that I would

only have scum-motivation to ask

that simple game set-up related question. There is no evaluation which I hoped for/expected. You earn a scum point for that reaction.

"short-sightedly concluded" is a strange way to describe something that you're handing out scum points for.

Just to confirm, do you therefore support Trivium's reasoning:

You didn't give a response to his point. If he is being foolish by suspecting that you're scum because of the daychat question,

why then would you say that he has earned scum points?

Also, I might be wrong here, but I think that the fact that you've asked that in all your town games means little, since you've only ever played as town on this forum.

THAT'S why I haven't found any games where he was scum asking that question. I am voting a Keyser-Tool scum team.

VOTE: Tool

[Trivium]

WAIT A MINUTE. If Tool has done so much research on Keyser, why wouldn't he say there was no game where Keyser was mafia?

[Zulfy]

@Trivium, neither did you

[Trivium]

I also haven't devoted as much of my posts to looking for meta in Keyser.

[JarJarDrinks]

I don't see anything wrong with asking about daytalk.

It's not that he asked. It's the fact that he asked about it publicly. Then made sure to announce "It is a small detail I like to know".

He really wants people to know that he has no idea whether mafia has daytalk.

[toolenduso]

Alrighty then. Hey tooleanduso, why don't you explain your buddying with Keyser? I mean, if either of you turn up being scum, we already know who the partner was. Well, maybe not. Would scum make it that easy? Still, your focus on protecting Keyser is pretty obvous. Why don't you help scumhunt?

Call it buddying if you want. What I see is a person trying to get town out of RVS, and people jumping on something that is very easy to paint as looking scummy. I'm not trying to protect him, I'm looking at the people who are attacking him because I think that's the best place to look for scum right now. I think scum would want to take a bite of that juicy apple.

Up until your last several posts I thought you looked really bad for it. But then your posting took a turn toward what looks like an alternate motivation, one that seems more town.

Kind of liking my vote on Aris tho.

WAIT A MINUTE. If Tool has done so much research on Keyser, why wouldn't he say there was no game where Keyser was mafia?

...why would I?

I haven't done "so much research" on him, by the way. I opened his list of topics he's posted in, looked at completed games, clicked on his ISO and ctrl + F'ed "day chat".

[Keyser Söze]

I don't see anything wrong with asking about daytalk.

It's not that he asked. It's the fact that he asked about it publicly. Then made sure to announce "It is a small detail I like to know".

He really wants people to know that he has no idea whether mafia has daytalk.

WHY DOES ASKING A QUESTION PUBLICLY MAKE ME SCUM?

WHY DOES SAYING IT'S SOMETHING I LIKE TO KNOW MAKE ME SCUM?

WHY DOES ME HAVING NO IDEA WHETHER MAFIA HAVE DAYTALK MAKE ME SCUM?

I am astonished at the logic being presented here.

[toolenduso]

Like, I wasn't looking for town games. I was just looking in his ISOs for times that he had asked the question. Just so happened that I only found games where he's done it as town. If I had found that he only does it as scum and does it specifically to try to look townie,

then

I would have been suspicious. But that's not what I found.

[toolenduso]

Keyser do you seriously not even understand the argument against you?

I mean, I don't agree with it but the argument is pretty simple. They're positing that you asked the question in order to look town. Because only town would ask the question.

[Keyser Söze]

I do not think "only town would ask the question". I do not see it as exclusively scum-indicative/motivated. I could have asked that question a hundred times, but never could you say it was exclusively town or scum motivated. In all honesty, it is the reachiest scum read I've seen for a while. I won't defend the same argument tomorrow. I think it is very unproductive.

[BlueMoonRising]

Vote: JarJar

For not baking down from an obviously bad position.

but Lapsa is also scummy.

[JarJarDrinks]

@JarJarDrinks - I asked you these questions because you have short-sightedly concluded that I would

only have scum-motivation to ask

that simple game set-up related question. There is no evaluation which I hoped for/expected. You earn a scum point for that reaction.

"short-sightedly concluded" is a strange way to describe something that you're handing out scum points for.

Just to confirm, do you therefore support Trivium's reasoning:

I can't see any other motive Keyser could of had for asking whether maf. have day talk other than to appear townie

. Townie doesn't need to appear townie. Therefore-

VOTE: Keyser

This is the second time you've tried to bait me into answering a question that is basically asking me if I'm 100% sure you're scum. I think you're the most likely person in the game to be scum right now. But no I'm not 100% sure so if you end up being town then there was obviously town motivation.

But this isn't a good defense dude. You can't just say "town could do this too". That's true about almost anything.

[Zulfy]

Vote: JarJar

For not baking down from an obviously bad position.

but Lapsa is also scummy.

I agree with your observation, but not your conclusion. If it was so obvious JarJar wouldn't be pursuing that.
Keyer Soze, you haven't answered my question.

[JarJarDrinks]

I don't see anything wrong with asking about daytalk.

It's not that he asked. It's the fact that he asked about it publicly. Then made sure to announce "It is a small detail I like to know".

He really wants people to know that he has no idea whether mafia has daytalk.

WHY DOES ASKING A QUESTION PUBLICLY MAKE ME SCUM?

WHY DOES SAYING IT'S SOMETHING I LIKE TO KNOW MAKE ME SCUM?

WHY DOES ME HAVING NO IDEA WHETHER MAFIA HAVE DAYTALK MAKE ME SCUM?

I am astonished at the logic being presented here.

None of those things automatically make you scum. They're just scummy. Please give me an example of something in mafia that is scummy that you couldn't just scream "WHY DOES X MAKE ME SCUM?

[Garmr]

lapsa and triv mafia team confirmed

VOTE: lapsa

Explain! You don't talk too much.

Am I allowed to triple post like this? I'll try not to from now on. In any case VOTE: Garmr for being so quiet.

I honestly don't like rvs that much as I normally tend to get voted as town for the stupidest reasons. But the reason i said they were a scum team was because

Keyser is on my watch list for that oddness with the question on mafia daychat.

did you confirm your role?

This made me think that his saying "hey bud we are scum together did you check your role'

I can't see any other motive Keyser could of had for asking whether maf. have day talk other than to appear townie. Townie doesn't need to appear townie. Therefore-

VOTE: Keyser

This is the most stupid reason on keyser at the moment

I'm just going to leave this here.

Also this.

I guess I should have done my research. Noted for next game.

See's that his wrong but doesn't unvote until a couple of posts after

quote="In post 99 , Trivium"]

I can't see any other motive Keyser could of had for asking whether maf. have day talk other than to appear townie. Townie doesn't need to appear townie. Therefore-

VOTE: Keyser

Oy.

I'm gonna have to do some meta work on you I think.

Did a little meta dip. Then realized it's not all that useful because we're still very early in this game. So. Will keep that in mind I guess and circle back around later.

Would like to see Aristophanes comment on the Keyser wagon.

P-edit: Eh, kinda. I try to use meta as an augmentation more than a central tool. But it's useful for things like this because Keyser said he (generally) likes to ask about scum daychat , and there are two examples of him doing it as town.

Yeah. I didn't do enough research I'm going to back down.

UNVOTE: Keyser

[/quote]
Will give him less scum points here as it was only 20 minutes but then goes on to

Alrighty then. Hey tooleanduso, why don't you explain your buddying with Keyser? I mean, if either of you turn up being scum, we already know who the partner was. Well, maybe not. Would scum make it that easy? Still, your focus on protecting Keyser is pretty obvous. Why don't you help scumhunt?

This post this post is stupid as fuck seriously toolsend is apparently buddying keyser yet they are scum buddies together nope nope. I think tools end is town just from the fact his actually looking if keyser would do this as town. I don't think a scum toolsend would have much initiative to get in the way if keyser was town or scum.

@JarJarDrinks - I asked you these questions because you have short-sightedly concluded that I would

only have scum-motivation to ask

that simple game set-up related question. There is no evaluation which I hoped for/expected. You earn a scum point for that reaction.

"short-sightedly concluded" is a strange way to describe something that you're handing out scum points for.

Just to confirm, do you therefore support Trivium's reasoning:

You didn't give a response to his point. If he is being foolish by suspecting that you're scum because of the daychat question,

why then would you say that he has earned scum points?

Also, I might be wrong here, but I think that the fact that you've asked that in all your town games means little, since you've only ever played as town on this forum.

THAT'S why I haven't found any games where he was scum asking that question. I am voting a Keyser-Tool scum team.

VOTE: Tool

The whole fucking point was he would only do it as scum if he does it as town it makes it null there is no reasoning to actually suspect keyser at this point.

VOTE: Trivium