Looks like we ended up in the same game after all Mini.
Have a vote to celebrate
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
VOTE: MiniDeathStar
I assume Cloudkicker's d9 thing is just part of 'deliberately looking scummy'. Or is it a genuine slip? Would we typically expect 4 scum in this game size?In post 16, CloudKicker wrote:Lets start off by being a bit scummy or i wont get pushed by scum
Original Roll String: 1d9(STATIC) 1 9-Sided Dice: (6) = 6
VOTE: Io
hello old neighbor
Incidentally I did spend the whole last game tunnelling someone who's name started with C because they were deliberately looking scummy. I really should try to avoid that this time.In post 22, MiniDeathStar wrote:I was being serious about Cloud though. Remember a fellow who claimed scum recently and turned out to be the real scum? Hint, their name also starts with C.
There's also this:Sound like it's town? Because to me it doesn't sound like town would be a secret.In post 15, CloudKicker wrote:Hello, i fliped my favorite alignement :3 its a secret tho which one it is
Anyway since the die seemed to be a dead end I'll have to start sniffing somewhere else. Can you elaborate on why that post seems to make AJ look town?In post 13, Flubbernugget wrote:I'm already liking aj for town
In post 59, CloudKicker wrote:@Culted what is there to read into, as a town with a lot of attention i expected some kind of chainsaw/coasty NAI posts from scum and his last could fit in these if aynthing but thats really nothing
Although... Cloud isn't your post on Jin functionally identical to Mini's? You both say he's sorta suss but we probably shouldn't make anything of it. Seems a bit odd to be calling her out for it.In post 64, CloudKicker wrote:@Culted : i am mentoring on another mafia site, this line could be added to my book of tells about how this is a clear cut really really common pattern from mafia to answer this kind of question, it keeps everything opens and looks like game solving when its not, its just refusing to answerIn post 58, MiniDeathStar wrote:Yes, Cloud, we get it, I called you scum and I still don't think you're town. Why are you repeating it? Like literally what was the purpose of that wall?
@culted:Not sure yet. I've played with Jin twice so far and from what I saw he's a bit weird/scummy in tone and playstyle so I can't read him until I've seen actual decisions from him.
I voted on you in the hopes of hearing a bit more about the d9 thing. It's clear that no-one with experience with either the roller or games of this player size would think the my theory that it was a scum slip made sense. However you entertained it anyway. Why?In post 125, Secret Agent Jin wrote:I dont know about these couple of votes on me but it really isnt a wagon so i will let it rest for now. I think the fact that CK cant go a single post without dropping the words "im town" is a bit troubling to me. It seems like he has to convincingly talk himself into believing that he is town. Personally i think CK purposely scumslipped so he could say that he is obviously town because no scum would REALLY do what he did and expose themselves when he actually has been scum all along.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: CloudKicker
By 'his' in this post you mean Grey's read that AJ is scum partner? That seems to be the case but you could also be referring to a cloud read on AJ I'm not seeing.In post 142, Flubbernugget wrote:Honestly if cloud flipped scum I could see his read on you making sense
In post 25, Secret Agent Jin wrote:That is a bit weird that 9 numbers would be used instead of 12 or 13. I am interested to see Cloud's response.In post 23, Kairal wrote:I assume Cloudkicker's d9 thing is just part of 'deliberately looking scummy'. Or is it a genuine slip? Would we typically expect 4 scum in this game size?In post 16, CloudKicker wrote:Lets start off by being a bit scummy or i wont get pushed by scum
Original Roll String: 1d9(STATIC) 1 9-Sided Dice: (6) = 6
VOTE: Io
hello old neighbor
In these posts rather than pointing out that what I've said doesn't make any sense you instead appear to agree with me. The first one could just be reasonably looking to get more content out of Cloud. The second one addressed to Mini seems to be an invitation for her to run with the idea that the D9 is a scum slip. Something which I've been informed by no fewer than 3 other players definitely could not be the case. I'm not sure why you did not correct me on this and instead appeared to agree with me.In post 28, Secret Agent Jin wrote:MDS, what do you think of the D9 roll instead of D12 or 13?
In post 76, Flubbernugget wrote:Cloud kicker
You bring up the fact that you have town slipped several times. Why do you think that couldn't have been faked by scum?
In post 137, Flubbernugget wrote:lolIn post 114, CloudKicker wrote:Everyone is so preoccupied about mafia faking slips and such
In post 139, Flubbernugget wrote:his intent to accuse you of intentionally shitting up the thread with wifom rung clear to meIn post 126, CloudKicker wrote:lol, that guy is saying im scum for calling myself town and doing a play ''no scum would REALLY do'', make sens
In post 144, Flubbernugget wrote:114 leads me to believe cloudkicker is more concerned with being self-congratulatory than actually trying to prove they are town
That last post is addressed to Jin for context. Flubber why do you go from a series of posts that seem pretty anti- ck to snapping at Jin for voting him? Is this because you no longer suspect CK? None of your posts seem to indicate that shift.
In post 107, Aj The Epic wrote:Sure, if you're able to provide any reasoning behind it. Your current state of analysis is basically "I see you as scum because you are scum" and nothing more. You've adopted to tunnel on CK and apparently see me pointing out that NIA =/= Good play is 'coaching'. You've confirmbiased the game already.
In post 112, Aj The Epic wrote:Confbias might've been a wrong choice of wording. Tunneling would be the proper word.-Grey- wrote:Only town can confbias. You are talking to me like you know I'm town even though you're voting for me.In post 107, Aj The Epic wrote:You've confirmbiased the game already.
That only strengthens my scumread on you.
However Confbias can absolutely come from scum (they know the roles from the getgo). It just isn't the correct word for what I asserted.
Ok I went back through AJ's ISO. These are the 3 posts discussing it. I'm a bit more sympathetic to Grey's argument now. It is weird that he specifically says confbias can come from scum then clarifies that he DOESN'T mean confbias he means tunneling (which... presumably only comes from town?). I dunno it's still semantics at heart but... yeah it's a bit weird.In post 118, Aj The Epic wrote:There's nothing to double down on. My semantic issue doesn't change my opinion, and you're trying to extrapolate shit that isn't there from it.
I laughed. I'm still gonna vote you though since I feel unexplained votes are anti-town and you seem committed to not explaining them.In post 390, massive wrote:I'm gonna blow your mind here. If I don't explain blank votes, I never deceive you. WHOA MIND BLOWNIn post 387, Kairal wrote:You'd be a lot easier to trust if you just explained where you were coming from you know that?
Cool you're here. Lets talk about it. You initially claim he's confbias - he says only town can be confbiased so why are you voting him. You respond with... this. You clarifiy that confbias can come from scum but you don't think he's confbias. Surely you can see how this looks like you are arguing he's not scum. Yet you continue to vote him. Just to get this totally clear for me: what do you mean when you say tunneling?In post 112, Aj The Epic wrote:Confbias might've been a wrong choice of wording. Tunneling would be the proper word.-Grey- wrote:Only town can confbias. You are talking to me like you know I'm town even though you're voting for me.In post 107, Aj The Epic wrote:You've confirmbiased the game already.
That only strengthens my scumread on you.
However Confbias can absolutely come from scum (they know the roles from the getgo). It just isn't the correct word for what I asserted.
The thing is... I never made a case on AJ. Seriously check out my discussions with Grey where he's frustrated with me specifically because I've frequently defended AJ. I have one post that could be considered an attack on AJ and it's really more of a concession that he may have scumslipped. Emphasis on 'may'In post 428, Io wrote:I already said, I'm like 90% sure in the vote post itself, that I voted AJ because I had real Kai's points about AJ then agreed with the assessment.
Then he made the 378 which is just a long scum orientated post throwing a little bit of shade at a lot of people but not outright accusing most of them.
No those votes are also annoying. However culted's post in 41 appeared to be a late RVS, I specifically voted Grey for 47, I specifically called out Grey again for 117. In both cases he explained where he was coming from. 291... Hmm yeah that's a little weird. Mini why are you feeling better about Massive? I believe you already had FoS on Io previously so I get why you changed the vote to her. But why not massive?In post 430, massive wrote:Kairal: Can I direct you to 41, 47, 117, and 291, and ask you whether or not you think those votes had reasons?
Thanks Mini. You know when you put it like this it makes it sound like I'm doing the pool of suspects again. As you recall that didn't end so well for us last time. I assure you I'm not locking myself into these reads. They're purely for day 1 and I'll reassess everyone on the list tomorrow. It's just a way to narrow down my potential lynch targets for today.In post 427, MiniDeathStar wrote:So here's the thing. Kairal's actively trying to reduce the pool of suspects, which is incredibly town and super bad for scum unless he put his partners in his "basket 1". And tbh if those people are the scum, we may have already lost the game, we just don't know it yet.In post 402, Kairal wrote:I'm currently sorting into two baskets. Would not lynch day 1 and the rest. Right now I have Mini, Grey, Dierfire and Culted in basket 1. Including myself that means I have the bare minimum for a town read from 5 of 13 people. That's not my 'would never lynch, clearly town bff' list. That's my exceeded bare minimum to not get lynched list. If I'm super generous I could maybe fit Jin in there.
Either way, I don't see how any scumread on that man could be justified other than with forced nitpicking.
The only people who work to actively *expand* the possible pool of lynchables by feigning paranoia before MYLO/LYLO and looking to cast doubt on others' townreads, are the scum.
Ok. Does this mean all of your votes till now are random votes? You should at least have some reason for them right? Like you made this post earlier about how scum are brilliantly mind controlling people into lynching you. I'm offering you a very easy way to get me to reconsider my vote on you. All you need to do is explain your votes.In post 447, massive wrote:It's day one. I don't have a brilliant plan. I also think anyone who says they have a concrete reason for voting on day one is probably wrong and scum will love having them around to exploit.In post 443, Kairal wrote: Massive why do you have time to scour the thread for other naked votes and not explain your own naked votes. Maybe I'm stomping all over some brilliant plan that comes from years of experience here I dunno. But it really does just look like a scum chucking in votes and unable to justify them.
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MDS: Specifically can you quote my "bad logic" that I've "doubled down on"?
In post 108, massive wrote:I'd say we just go ahead and get interested in AJ without worrying about a flip.In post 104, -Grey- wrote:Cloud scum flip will make me very interested in AJ.
Hmm I see. Well I apologize for annoying you enough to do so, on the off chance you're being genuine. You will be unsurprised to learn that it doesn't help me town read you though.In post 179, massive wrote:I'm leaning towards town. I haven't seen any indication that his townslip isn't genuine (and I do think it's a townslip), and after thinking about it, Kairal's townslip along the same lines probably makes them both town. I don't think either of them make good lynches today. (Or lunches, if that's a thing.)In post 135, Flubbernugget wrote:Massive, I would like your read on cloudkicker. I see your 94 as not reading them as town, yet your 95 votes for someone else for *reasons*
And my vote is staying on you.
There are no associative tells between town and anybody, so trying to use them as a method of scumhunting without, you know, having a scum to tie them to really isn't a thing.In post 138, Aj The Epic wrote:How do associative tells not work? Like I know I've been gone for 8 months but how does the community just disregard an entire part of scumhunting? (Asking because this is something I've heard multiple times in like 2 days). They absolutely do work, Grey's just grasping at shit and hoping something sticks.
A -- if you were only voting town half the time, you're actually doing better than would be expected (since town is 75% of the game) so again, why would you not want people sheeping you? And B -- honey, if you think people are going to follow the village elder, maybe you better check my join date.In post 154, MiniDeathStar wrote:Because last game people sheeped me and I was voting town 50% of the time. We're a majority for a reason, everyone should be contributing to the discussion, not blindly following the village elder.In post 94, massive wrote:If you legitimately believe Cloudkicker is scum as you say, why would you be actively against people sheeping you? You do this more than just here.
Very interested what it is about my vote that makes me scum. And no, 157 isn't even remotely close. And no, trying to push the town based on 157 with no additional reasons is practically bullshit.In post 95, massive wrote:Oops forgot my random not-actually-random vote!
In post 154, MiniDeathStar wrote: And just like that, massive starts slowly oozing down towards the scumpile.
Can you quote 99 and, specifically, what is exemplary of your point above?In post 162, culted wrote:That's fair, 99 is pretty bad as well like you always see scum trying to push people while simultaneously impressing how they should be reading someone else.In post 157, MiniDeathStar wrote:His questions felt pointless, and that vote on Kairal was super bad.
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VOTE: AJ
Hmm...? Either flubbernaught is your number 2 scumread or if I'm reading it backwards I'm your number 1 scum read?In post 316, MiniDeathStar wrote:
Scum Meter Kairal Elhabe21 Cloudkicker -Grey- culted HellloooNewman I Am Innocent Secret Agent Jin Aj The Epic massive Flubbernugget Iotown|~town|null|~scum|scum
It's possible. In another town I'd probably be very worried about it. However I have literally 3 people who are scummier and 2 who are totally inactive. That puts flubber way down at number 6 personally and therefore I just can't see my way towards lynching or voting him day 1. We'll see how he looks by the end of Day 2 I guessIn post 518, MiniDeathStar wrote:The reason why I'm iffy on it is because Flub could have quoted a number of other posts as evidence for his scumhunting, but he was specifically anchored on that *one* post and brought it up several times. It kind of looks like he wants bussing to pay off, if he's indeed bussing.