Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Naomi-Tan]

It's your slot, regardless of their play you should be able to see the motivation behind it because you know everything they do. I replace in a lot. Recently replaced in (finished game, Nhadia's Trial of the Evoker) for some idiot who claimed he was passively a role reflector and got caught in a lie by a fucking mail-man spell. Yeah, that's bad play. However I can't exactly be like "yeah my predecessor is a moron ignore everything he said" because A.) It's my slot and it's still my responsibility and B.) he was town with a RB role so you at least have to understand he was trying to dodge a NK.

Look I don't care who i'm replacing bad play is bad play. Its not red play. Like yeah If I was green and saw Shadows entrance i'd jumped on that wagon. Really though From an objectively neutral view point we had a person who had a temper tantrum over nothing followed by Shadow, which looks like saying nothing and lurking from my quick skim (seriously he must of written 2 paragraphs and the rest are one liners)

[Naomi-Tan]

I haven't replaced into a game but out of curiosity if you replaced into CK's spot and he was town... what would you say about his play?

I'm not sure how this question would be useful.

As red I'm not sure I'd mentioned much at all just sorta moved onto it and read up but only commented after reading and probs only a handful of things as it makes my trail and though process harder to pinn down giving me some wiggle room. maybe like 1-3 lines on each active player but yeah.

[Kairal]

Well as I say I was just curious... I didn't specify but it was actually directed at AJ. He doesn't like the way you've discussed CK- I'm curious to see what he'd say in that situation.

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh okay. Carry on then XD.

[Aj The Epic]

I haven't replaced into a game but out of curiosity if you replaced into CK's spot and he was town... what would you say about his play?

Normally I don't mention my prior's play whatsoever. They're my one constant outside any death flips: I know their role, their alignment and can glean their reasoning. A lot of people advocate reading their prior's iso, I generally avoid it because they probably came under fire for their play and for their reads, so I consider them less reliable overall, even if I accept them as honest opinions. It's very rare that you'll replace into a conftown or really pro-town slot so I normally talk with the current discussion and figure out how fucked the slot is. if it's not getting lynched for certain, I re-read a bit and develop scum reads. If my slot is an issue, I'll claim what I feel is needed.

A few issues I have specifically with this (because yeah, it's pretty common to be frustrated with a replace-in slot [see above: rarely ever viewed as protown]) is Naomi's claim that she does a lot of LAMIST. Yeah, we've seen that. However, CK did the same thing and when we're talking about an ahmished tell, I'd expect that part to bother her a lot less considering these two have very similar play in many aspects concerning how they carry themselves.

That and the fact that I feel a lot of information Naomi has missed has felt intentional. Newman, Grey and Jin were quoted more than anyone else in her reread. Very rarely can a person alive actually account for the person of interest to her questions. More importantly, take the quoted Jin post from last page that she used as an attack on Flubber. Jin's dead and flipped green, making the opinion potentially 'more impactful' to us because we know his alignment. But in the same breath, it's caused Naomi to do nothing more than agree with it instead of offering her own arguments because hey, Jin was honest to god town. I feel as though Naomi isn't telling the truth when she acts like she didn't know Neman/Grey/Jin were dead. Hell, on read throughs, I do ISO people and the corner button to check activity is used often. It would easily trigger that all three had been replaced out or dead. There's just no way that she hasn't realized something's wrong here.

[Kairal]

Hmm I see. I think you have a pretty good argument about her selective re-read. I think she intends her reading to be a clear sign of town. However it seems to me it would be very easy to simply read scum chat to know what her allies are planning and use that to inform her reread.

I'm not really townreading her... I just think she's probably not on a team with culted and flubber. I'm not really sure who her team mates would be. It would have to be two people I'm townreading: Aj, Dier and IamI. Not impossible but it seems less likely.

[Kairal]

Anyway thanks for the reply. Something to think about when I replace into a game which is bound to happen at some stage.

[culted]

Oh cool lots of stuff happened!
Had a feeling massive was town. Claim makes sense but I thought it was more of that thing where you tunnel on someone for days to no avail and then you get the weird realization of 'holy fuck if this person was town wouldn't scum want to get in on this' kinda paranoia thing - BUT THEN I THOUGHT - I could have just been being superbad because actually looking at mini in detail you'll find she wasn't all that town.



I also find it awfully scum indicative that kairal blatantly ignored my questions I asked them right after my last catchup! Then proceeded to finally 'take a closer look at my iso' and create a scumread on me out of nadda.

VOTE: Kairal

[culted]

In these posts Culted calls out massive but immediately backtracks. Also there are a lot of bad reads going around but here we see that Culted wants to lynch Io, Jin and Newman. All now confirmed to be town. Actually a large amount of Culted's Iso is tunneling on Jin.

Like.

Was there anything about my thought processes on massive that you took issue with?
Can you talk about why I wasn't justified in having those reads?

This just feels like scum bravado to me especially the line "all now confirmed to be town" is laying it on thick. feels less like someone trying to empathize and more like trying make this sound better than it actually is.

[culted]

Honestly Grey was really into the Jin lynch. The issue is, no one in the town (outside Jin) really was interested in stopping it. Dierfire in 656 and 935 showed a logical progression that should've had him believing jin as scum (It was conditional on Newman being town, which was found after N1). Everyone voting Jin (other than arguably Kairal) was scumreading Jin. MDS... didn't seem interested in stopping it, and I'm inclined to believe hers was more a scumread on jin than a townread. Shadow doesn't mention Jin once outside a random quote ("how do you know me" essentially). Which really leaves me, who was townreading Jin but didn't really do anything to prevent it. The lynch was going to happen, it's more a question of the hammer time.

Fair to say that there wasn't much loud resistance but does that mean we don't analyze the runup? No.
I was thinking earlier that because there wasn't much resistance and saj was scummy as fuck that it was probably pretty towndriven because there was some lolz about it and peeps like mini trying to maximize but I don't think there's a world where mini-slot is scum here now... so shadow-slot is feeling like the scum off. Maybe dier too.


Bottomline though, scummiest vote on is kai's.

[culted]

No official top 3 for the day I found, but subtle attacks on kairal and mini, vote to Shadow. No mention of {AJ, Flubber, or Dierfire}

You just quoted a post where I explicitly asked for your thoughts on my reasons for thinking Dierfire might be town. LOL

AJ is obvtown.
Flubber's frustration on page 42 is pretty real.

[culted]

Kairal giving shadow a pass based on replacing out and sorta stuffing me into the same tier as him when we've nowhere near the same level of content and then not even attempting to engage me once I found time for this may be indicative of buddies.

Let's see.

[culted]

Page 5; time for a break.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l7shCvDXUU

Thoughts so far;

I have a Green read off of culted There actions don't fall in line with what I'd concider red moviation and they seem to be thinking and working well off others.


HellloooNewman
I Am Innocent
Aj The Epic

Are getting free pass's for just generally not getting any interest from me what so ever. (AKA Null reads)

Massive should also be a null read but I didn't like there reaction to my last post. seemed a bit weird//not what I remember but then again I think thats just me so you can sit in the cataogry im gonna call the void which lines in a space between null and redish.

I didn't really like flubbs reaction to CK's faked slips but I think if they are as smart as I think they are they also might of called it and not cared as I would of if I was playing and not in this slot.

Dierfire I didn't like there entrance post and given it was 5 pages in thats kinda lurky.

Kairal Probs my biggest red read on page 5. Apart from voting every green read I've had bar one. They always seem kinda weak. I also didn't like them leaving the gray train that they had committed too earlier.

Black Void I have your slot listed as possible red. Though I didn't write down why and off the top of my head don't remember must been a post your precessor did. but I can find that in a bit once I'm done and might get some more supporting or conflicting evidence for you being red. sorry for the vagueness but I lost the note XD

FOS: Kairal

I'm not gonna vote until I have read up and know if my reads are right. but as a reaction to the first 5 pages. this is what I got. stay tunned for more later after I wish to continue

The townread on me is making me waffle. : 3

Why just fos kai and not vote him?

[culted]

Oh you didn't read spoilers before catching up.

Strange.

[culted]

I am confirm as of right now I have no intent of pushing you and if your content remains consistent post page 22 Im pretty certain that won't change. You may been one of my later reads but I been Green reading you for at least 12 pages. (though I don't have my notes the precise time)

Hmm.

What did you see that changed from your initial impressions up to page 12?

[Aj The Epic]

Flubber's frustration on page 42 is pretty real.

There's nothing saying scum can't be frustrated. Especially since on the next page Flubber claims he's 'apathetic', not frustrated, so I'd question the validity there.

[culted]

Frustration and apathy are more of a cause and effect thing. He's frustrated that his pushes are being tuned out and it makes perfect sense for flubber to become apathetic as town because his top scumread is now suddenly chainsawing him about his read on mini (another scumread) and not many people batted an eye.

Unless you're saying that emotions are ever stagnant and can't change even in the moment.

[culted]

Finished the first seven pages. Kairal and Flubbernugget are townreads. Naomi's slot and AJ are scumreads. I also don't buy massive's claim. Even night cop and odd night cop together are too convenient and I'm not sure why everyone else is. It's far more overpowered than a regular cop because that would be two additional people that the scum need to kill other than the confirmed innocents. I also don't think odd-night cop, even-night cop, and JK all exist in the game.

Today is the day before lylo (in the event we mislynch). So, we should mass-claim. I also think having confirmed town decide the order is optimal strategy not to mention more efficient. I think we should go in the order of Naomi -> AJ -> Dierfire/Culted/IAI -> Kairal -> Flubbernugget.

Why do you think kairal is town?

If massive was scum do you not think IAMI's cop thingy at day start would make him hesitate to fakeclaim?

Who has all claimed so far and is this order we decided to go with?

[culted]

There's of course the tinfoil scenario where IAMI and massive are scum together and one soft-claimed to test the waters so that massive could claim freely after a certain point and then clear mini (begs the question of why mini though because that still seems like a viable lynch without the clear). Possible they thought that there was more convenient things to push.


Point being it seems high-risk low-reward and that massive-scum doesn't make that claim if IamI is town.

[Kairal]

culted likewise has been on Jin from very early. Grey's vote is the only one that looks opportunistic. However he's obviously town. In short everyone on this wagon is either confirmed town or has been pushing this for a while.

Okay so wait.
Who was confirmed town on the wagon?
What does people pushing jin for a while have to do with jin's alignment?

Just to be clear these are the questions I didn't answer which I'm definitely scum for not bothering with? I didn't bother with them because they seemed so pointless. By confirmed town I was obviously referring to Grey. I'm not even sure what you're getting at with the second question. Obviously Jin's alignment is very important for determining the alignment of people pushing to kill him- since he's town they might be scum.

At any rate these recent posts by culted: A) attempt to mislynch me which I predicted scum trying to do, B) attempts to cast doubt on massive's cop claim- not definitely a scum action but helpful for scum to push, C) continues to defend Flubber, only making me more certain you're a scum team D) attempts to move some heat onto Naomi, which fits into my theory that she's not your scum buddy.

In short these posts present a few reasons why you might be scum and don't deviate in the slightest from how I'd expect you to play as scum.

[Kairal]

In these posts Culted calls out massive but immediately backtracks. Also there are a lot of bad reads going around but here we see that Culted wants to lynch Io, Jin and Newman. All now confirmed to be town. Actually a large amount of Culted's Iso is tunneling on Jin.

Like.

Was there anything about my thought processes on massive that you took issue with?
Can you talk about why I wasn't justified in having those reads?

This just feels like scum bravado to me especially the line "all now confirmed to be town" is laying it on thick. feels less like someone trying to empathize and more like trying make this sound better than it actually is.

Well I'm no longer scum reading massive so it's not really relevant anymore. My argument was that your timing was consistent with the timing a scum partner would have if they were trying to protect massive. And no I'm not trying to empathize. I'm trying to find scum.

[Kairal]

To that end culted repeatedly fits the pattern of someone with the appropriate timing for scum. His activity is good in the beginning- once it becomes clear that scum are winning handily his activity drops. His reads line up with Flubber (on Jin specifically) but he frequently tries to avoid mentioning him. When he does he's always convinced he's town, a read which I'm not sure anyone else in town has. Right after I say I'm not sure culted is scum because the best path for scum right now is to try and lynch me, he jumps into the thread with a crappy scum read on me. He continues to try and throw doubt on a cop claim with no counter. Incidentally if IamI was trying to set up a massive claim why does he specifically tell the cop not to reveal soon? Surely that's the exact opposite of what he and massive would need?

None of this is a smoking gun but it all adds up.

Incidentally Flubber has a post in caps where he makes it clear the word he used was pathetic, not apathetic. I'm not quite sure why you two are both misreading that.

[Aj The Epic]

Honestly while we're at it, he's also voting for me without an actual scum read on me and I'm too apathetic towards it to be shouting you all down about it the way I should be

[Kairal]

Uh... lol. I guess I shoulda doublechecked his posts before submitting that one. In my defense he does have a post where he emphatically insists he meant pathetic... but then he has the one you quoted where he bolds apathetic. I don't even know what that's about then. Anyway my bad

[Kairal]

Anyway I'm currently voting for Flubber but I'm pretty sure he and Culted are a scum team. I don't care which we lynch first.